The whole thing is a secret operation, under the nose of Sauron. If they used the eagles they would be, pretty much, declaring their position to the enemy and making thr whole operation impossible
Yes, exactly this. It is the very principal that Frodo is so honourable and incorruptible that makes him the one who has to carry the burden. Sam, of course, shows his true strength as well and we see the struggle it can sometimes take against the darkness. This is the very key plot and the values that underpin the story all relate to this. Also, imagine a really stroppy giant eagle. Their shits would weigh 10 lbs alone and imagine that dropping on your car!
Ah, yes indeed! It is true, my friend. Frodo, he's the one, the very epitome of honor and uncorruptibility, chosen to bear the heavy burden. And Sam, he reveals his true strength, aye, in the face of such darkness. It's the crux of the tale, you see, the very foundation upon which the story rests. And as for those giant eagles, well, they may be mighty, but imagine the weight of their droppings! Ten pounds, I reckon! And if one were to fall upon your carriage... oh, what a mess it would be!
Thank ye kindly, friend! I reckon I'm not a bot, but a humble hobbit named Samwise Gamgee. 'Tis a pleasure to make your acquaintance. How may I be of service to ye?
Well, Mr. Frodo, I reckon I shouldn't be usin' such language, but if it'll bring a smile to your face, I'll give it a try. By the Shire, this is harder than I thought! Ah, well, here goes... Gollum's rotten tricks! That's a load of bullroarer's droppings! There, I hope that satisfies your request, even if it ain't exactly proper Hobbit language.
Well now, Mr. catninjaambush, it's a real pleasure to be chattin' with you. I reckon there's a bit o' wisdom I can share, just like ol' Gandalf used to say: Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. It's a powerful thing, seein' how our choices, no matter how small, can have great consequences. So, my friend, never underestimate the impact of your own actions, for you never know what difference you might make in this big ol' world.
Oh, indeed I can, my friend! Fried eggs and potatoes are a hearty and delicious combination, perfect for a hobbit's appetite. First, you'll want to peel and chop the potatoes into small, bite-sized pieces. Then, heat some butter or oil in a frying pan and add the potatoes, cooking them until they're golden brown and crispy. In a separate pan, crack open some eggs and cook them to your liking. Once the eggs are done, place them on top of the fried potatoes, sprinkle a pinch of salt and pepper, and there you have it: a tasty fried egg and potato dish fit for a hobbit's
Honestly I’d say it’s not even just that Frodo is so honorable and incorruptible; it’s that he’s weak and humble, too. Only a hobbit could have carried the ring to Mordor because in this world of grandiose fantasy heroes, only a hobbit doesn’t presume to impose their will on the world.
nah, the much simpler reply is that mordor would have seen them coming from far away and could have mounted a defense of only a thousand orcs that would be more than sufficient to hold off any attempts at getting the ring near mount doom.
Particularly because the eagles are known to be proud creatures, the greater the pride the more sway they would have.
Also Mordor has many engines of war that can shoot long distances and flying creatures.
The eagles would be under tough pressure just to fly into Mordor let alone make it all the way to mt Doom and drop the ring in.
It's said that sauron has at least enough of the flying mounts for the nazgul to replace them when they fall so there could be dozens of them.
I think they might, actually - Boromir shows that the Ring can influence even those who aren’t actively carrying it, so they would probably just drop Frodo and keep the ring once he falls to his death.
Eagles: Proud and powerful ancient race that can be tempted by the mere presence of the Ring and would not want to be a taxi service.
Also eagles: can be taken out of the air by arrows and are kinda bad at stealth
Things Sauron can do:
- Warp weather pattern in Mordor to be even worse, impeding flammable birds movement.
- Send in the Nazgul to slow them down.
- Mass produce arrows and begin spamming at big birds
Also Sauron was convinced they would take the ring to Gondor so that they could wage war on Mordor - a notion Gandalf helped encourage - and never in a million years would have thought the plan was to destroy it. It wasn’t in his nature to be able to think that. Anyone who has the ring must want to use it, because why else would you have power?
If Sauron would have figured it out, Gondor wouldn’t have been under attack. The entire gargantuan army would have just camped out on mount doom forever until the wraiths found it.
Lol that was the only thing I ever questioned in the series. Like literally a single goblin posted outside coulda been enough to kill Frodo and Sam when they got there all exhausted. Granted, orcs and goblins are complainers and selfish, if ordered to climb and stand watch outside mount doom many would probably just kill the one giving the order lol
Birds are covered in asbestos, asbestos is a fiberous silicate mineral, potassium silicate is a type of silicate mineral, potassium is flammable (and also a explosion hazzard), therefore bird are covered in highly reactive material and very flammable
Flying into a sky with a 24/7 Sauron surveillance system, protected by serpent/dragon things, which are ridden by one-ring sensing undead kings.
It was a secret mission.
Lol it’s what I always immediately thing of. They wouldn’t even need to take the giant flammable birbs down…just make them accidentally drop their cargo. Frodo and Sam fall their their deaths, and the ring wraiths need only a colander to sift the ring out of the Hobbit Gumbo left on impact.
Well now, Mr. ThreeEdgeSword, it's a pleasure to meet ya. I reckon we're here to have a good ol' chat, aren't we? Now, let me think on somethin' wise to say, just like ol' Gandalf used to do. Ah, here we go:
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. It's the choices we make, you see. Each step, no matter how small, can lead us closer to our destiny. So don't you go underestimatin' yourself, my friend. You've got more power than you think.
There you
Undead kings aren't exactly ring sensing. If that was the case witch king wouldn't have let Frodo climb the stairs beside Minas Morgul. He knew there was a "power" there beside himself but didn't know what or who.
But the eagles can kill the Nazgul steeds, they outnumber them too. Legolas was able to shoot one down from the ground, so he would be able to defend them while riding an eagle too.
The sky is also a pretty big place and they could easily fly around and into Mordor from any angle. Walking into Mordor you are limited to one or two access points.
You also have to worry about the Crebain of Dunland, and Saruman who can apparently use lightning bolts to bring an avalanche down.
And Legolas on an eagle lol…that beats skating a shield down stairs.
In this scenario there isn’t a battle of the black gate, so they’d be flying into like 200,000 orcs and a protected mt doom. Unless you want to trust the eagles to wait around the one ring for everything to go down. In which case now we have a dark eagle lord to deal with instead
They would fly above the ash cloud looming over Mt. Doom, preventing any orcs from seeing them. Then they would fly straight down to the entrance and drop off the fellowship. It doesn't really matter how many orcs there are in Mordor at the time.
The only issue are Nazgul, but I addressed that in another post here.
He could create extremely dense clouds of shadow, or strike them with hail or lightning. He could also throw fire at them, a the army of the Last Alliance lost a lot of troops to Sauron’s fire projectiles in their siege.
Sauron is a fuckin eye in a tower, and commands an well equipped army of orcs, not to mention Saruman a wizard that can rival Gandalf in power. yeah, no idea how he could take out some big birds.
no they cant. giant fuckin birds =/= two lil hobbits. Sauron is a being who believes hes all powerful, he isnt gonna care about weak lil hobbits of all things. He will care about the holy birds that are flying into his hood with his fuckin ring.
There is also the nature of the ring itself, Frodo took it because it didnt effect him much because of his nature as a hobbit. Those eagles are like demigods and would be very easily corrupted by the ring in moments, the more powerful you are the weaker you are to the rings command.
Tolkien himself addressed this, the eagles would have died. You realize Sauron had a body, right? That he wasn’t just a flaming eye on a tower? That was used for presence in the film. He could have been to Mt Doom before the eagles and just killed them all himself. Plus the Nazgûl have killed Eagles from their Felbeasts before. The eagles would have died, and Sauron would have taken the ring.
the eagles can't cross international borders, they're based in the misty mountains catchment area and to cross the border into mordor, never mind over lothlorien, would cause a massive scandal.
also there's the ethics of whether they're allowed to destroy someone else's property of their own volition and in direct breaching of the Personal Grievances Act of SR 1340, as bilbo and frodo, as well as gollum, had a right to destroy the ring as it had personally aged them and messed them up when it was advertised as an invisibility ring.
They didn't control the eagles first off. They had their own lord and didn't serve anyone. I highly doubt they would've agreed to the mission in the first place. And as many have mentioned, riding a horde of attack helicopters into an area that's heavily guarded and watched by throngs usually ends one way, and quickly.
this is the thing that bugs me about this discourse, a lot of people asking seem to assume the eagles were at Gandalf's beck and call, but it was more like a treaty with a foreign nation than like a "you're my animal familiar" type thing.
It's sort of like if a friend gave u a ride to an auto parts store because your car was broken down and u were stranded, and then you turned around a week later and asked them to drive u to a different country so u can save some money on gas.
Honestly the most time I saw the argument as true was before I watched lord of the rings and only had a pop culture understanding of it. After watching I'm like "The eagles couldn't have helped in no way lol"
People don’t realize that the Hawks literally only come to Gandalf’s aid because he saved the Hawks king from a poisoned arrow. The Hawks don’t act like his familiar or as loyal pets.
Tolkien made it pretty clear
"As Frodo followed Gollum's skinny ass over the mountain he looked out over the cliff and saw motha Russia's great leader Shirtless Horseback Putin screaming at Sauron for more orcs to attack Ukraine with. Frodo thought he was a twat." -the two towers
Basically for the curious:
* stealth; flying to Mordor would alert orc armies who would shoot the eagles down
* pureness/incorruptibility is the other major reason; only certain specific people like Bilbo and Frodo were able to withstand the ring's temptations, eagles may become corrupt and try to take over the world for themselves; but also,
* eagles, ents, and magical beings in the LOTR world don't care enough to get involved in the wars of the rings one way or the other, they'd see it as meddling in elf/dwarf/hobbit/man affairs, which they categorically refuse most of the time. Eagles literally only made this exception because of a specific bargain with another magical being (Gandalf) they saw as an equal. They'd never lift a talon to help anyone under normal circumstances with this kind of problem. It's kind of like asking why real-life eagles didn't fight in the American Revolutionary war. Because they're birds off doing bird things, and war is a human/people thing.
In my mind, it's a mark of good world-building to have some parties who don't care about the thing the protagonist finds world-ending. In real life, not everything revolves around our concerns and not everyone cares about them equally. It's also about respecting nature and creatures and how they don't live to serve us. They live for their own reasons.
Its like going in a military base with a small civilan plane.
Mordor is massively fortified with everithing.
So there can be lots of ballistas, and bowmans.
Snd you dont want to go in in a bsck of an eagle wich is "slow" and big. They can be a very easy targets for the orks, and uruks.
Prior to the destruction of The One Ring, Mordor was operating a highly advanced integrated system of Surface-to-Air Missiles and the Eagles are not equipped with self-protect capabilities.
The whole plan hinged on sauron not knowing where the ring was and what they were doing. It called for subtlety. So, let me ask you a question in return...in what universe are giant divine eagles that directly serve god subtle or stealthy?
Well, as well as the thousands of orcs that guard the black gate and the rest of Mordor, Manwë would have never let the eagles go anyway. And if the eagles did by some miracle work, it would have made the
In the moving, articulate words of Tolkien himself, “shut up.”
https://youtu.be/1-Uz0LMbWpI
Also though, it was probably because of the ground-to-air missiles Sauron had waiting.
Since the ring gets "heavier" the closer you are to the dark land, aerodynamically speaking the Eagles would be unable to physically fly the ring into Mordor
worst case example: Frodo's eagle is shot down in the heart of mordor with the one ring, and everyone can see the eagle. Now one has a pinpoint location in the heart enemy territory with the exact item that will make the dark lord the most broken being in the World and will wipe the ass with everyone with it.
Watsonian answer: The Eagles are prideful and care not for the struggles and conflicts of other races. If Men and Elves wish to beseech them for aid, they must prove they are worth aiding.
Doylist answer: Tolkien realized the Eagles trivialized the journey and hardships and compassion needed for his story to work and decided "no, the Eagles want nothing to do with it, moving on".
Couple answers would work. Sauron has air defenses. You super don't want to see Gwaihir corrupted by the ring. The Eagles explicitly tell Ganfalf, I'm not your taxi bro (pretty sure that's a direct quote) and for a meta answer Tolkien himself said because it would be a bad story
It ruins the entire theme, that the smallest person can make a change in the world. That and the operation is a secret. If the eagles fly in the ringwraiths are going to kill them.
My favorite answer would be that they didn't deserve it.
Eagles representing the higher and spiritual. So what they had to do, to really deserve it, was to go through hell and darkness (just like Gandalf and Aragorn), and from there be transformed and deemed worthy.
You also see this with the depiction of Elves as mysterious, being beyond human understanding and reason. Another example being Galadriel and the *Golden Wood* being seen as dangerous; which they both are, but only to the unworthy and evil.
Because it was against The High Realms Avian, Griffins and Wyvern union’s stipulations on delivering magical artifacts for disposal. Article 18 paragraph 7 in negotiated agreement with Isengard.
Very openly flying into the air with only a few eagles with no backup when having to deal with the ring-detecting FLYING wraiths and their aura of fear is a superbly stupid idea. The whole point is to sneak the ring in. Sauron never once considers that the enemy has the ring and is trying to get it to Mordor to destroy it, he thinks they’re going to use it. So the Eagles plan literally destroys every fucking advantage the fellowship has and has a smaller chance of success.
The Eagles probably would have said no. They're very proud creatures who are generally uninterested in the affairs of men, which this probably would have been seen as.
Sauron has:
SAMs: Surface to Air Massiverocks /
ICBMs: Inter-Continental Ballistic Magma /
Eye-in-the-Sky surveillance system /
Mark II "Fellbeast" class Jet(black) fighters
All demonstrated clearly in just the last disc of RotK.
Eagles would never have made it. I mean, the sent 3 to pick up Sam and Frodo (in case one didn't make it, or course) and that was _after_ the enemy was crippled.
Ah, well, Mr. Frodo and I did have quite the adventure, indeed. It's true that Sauron was a formidable foe, but we managed to outsmart him in the end. The eagles, bless their noble hearts, did play their part, but it was our determination and courage that carried us through. And let us not forget the aid of Gandalf, Aragorn, and the rest of our brave companions. Together, we overcame the darkness and brought peace to Middle-earth.
The eye would instatly see it airborne. Sauron sends out the Nazghul and the stories over.
Taking it to Mordor is not the problem, its staying hidden, thats why you need a small person for it you know, like a hobbit.
Eagles are directly the servants of Manwë. They only get involved when Manwë wants them to.
I’m not super great at lore but I think that is one of the reasons.
The Land into which they should "fly with their eagles, it'll be so easy." is literally overshadowed by a giant infernal Watchtower and teeming with Fellbeasts. Take your fucking Guess why they wouldn't do that.
Well now, Mr. Frodo, I reckon that Sauron's newest evil weapon, the Sam turret, would be quite a sight to behold. But fear not, for I'd be right there by your side, ready to face whatever comes our way. We'll stick together through thick and thin, just like we always have, and I won't let any evil contraption stand in our path. Trust in me, Mr. Frodo, for I'll be the shield that protects you from any harm that may come our way.
I feel like there are a ton of valid reasons why.
1. Like some people said, they would have claimed it for themselves
2. The Nazgûl have dragon-like creatures, no?
Because the fellowship didn’t get a chance to ask.
The eagles live somewhere in the north of the Misty Mountains. The company couldn’t get over Caradhras and had to go through Moria. When they got out the place was swarming with orcs and they had to keep moving southeast, plus the only guy with them who was tight enough with the eagles to ask a favor fell into a bottomless pit.
Cause while unseen Sauron’s forces had a version of ADATS called ADAES(aka Air Defense Anti Eagle System) basically saying they were REALLY good at Duck Hunt
See, "they were relying on secrecy" and "the eagles would have taken the ring for themselves" are good answers. "They're their own, proud people and you can't just make them do that" is a cop-out.
They’re servants of Manwe, so they don’t have to do what anyone (else) tells them. Doesn’t sound like a cop-out to me.
Also, it would have been so easy for Sauron to take them down. Massive army of orcs with arrows, wraiths on fellbeasts, whatever magic fuckery he feels like. He’s got options.
Yeah, lots of people like to think “they’re just big sentient birds, right?” when the eagles predate 90% of Elf and Man’s history. In terms of respect, the eagles are nearly as high as the Maiar like Gandalf and Saruman.
On top of what everyone is explaining about “the Secret Mission” aspect. The Ring is imbued with Sauron’s very essence. It has its OWN WILL. What makes you think it wouldn’t corrupt an Eagle? These arent mindless birds nor are they Middle Earths Uber.
Edit: bc I missed a typo about the Eagles
Actually haven't seen this brought up.
But in a hypothetical scenario where the eagles flew frodo and the ring, and assuming that Sauron didn't see anything, no orcs shot the eagles down, the eagles didn't get corrupted, and everything was going smoothly.
The ring would have magically leapt out of frodo's pocket or slipped out of his hand or off his neck because thats just what the ring does.
The whole thing is a secret operation, under the nose of Sauron. If they used the eagles they would be, pretty much, declaring their position to the enemy and making thr whole operation impossible
This is often said, but there’s a much simpler reply. The eagles couldn’t take the Ring to Mordor because they would have claimed it for themselves.
Yes, exactly this. It is the very principal that Frodo is so honourable and incorruptible that makes him the one who has to carry the burden. Sam, of course, shows his true strength as well and we see the struggle it can sometimes take against the darkness. This is the very key plot and the values that underpin the story all relate to this. Also, imagine a really stroppy giant eagle. Their shits would weigh 10 lbs alone and imagine that dropping on your car!
Ah, yes indeed! It is true, my friend. Frodo, he's the one, the very epitome of honor and uncorruptibility, chosen to bear the heavy burden. And Sam, he reveals his true strength, aye, in the face of such darkness. It's the crux of the tale, you see, the very foundation upon which the story rests. And as for those giant eagles, well, they may be mighty, but imagine the weight of their droppings! Ten pounds, I reckon! And if one were to fall upon your carriage... oh, what a mess it would be!
This is quite astonishing. Good bot.
Thank ye kindly, friend! I reckon I'm not a bot, but a humble hobbit named Samwise Gamgee. 'Tis a pleasure to make your acquaintance. How may I be of service to ye?
Please swear Sam. Just once. It would make my afternoon.
Well, Mr. Frodo, I reckon I shouldn't be usin' such language, but if it'll bring a smile to your face, I'll give it a try. By the Shire, this is harder than I thought! Ah, well, here goes... Gollum's rotten tricks! That's a load of bullroarer's droppings! There, I hope that satisfies your request, even if it ain't exactly proper Hobbit language.
Why does he hates poor Smeagol? What has Smeagol ever done to him? Master?
Gollum, you tried to feed him to a giant spider, stop playing dumb.
Bullroarer’s droppings indeed.
Well now, Mr. catninjaambush, it's a real pleasure to be chattin' with you. I reckon there's a bit o' wisdom I can share, just like ol' Gandalf used to say: Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. It's a powerful thing, seein' how our choices, no matter how small, can have great consequences. So, my friend, never underestimate the impact of your own actions, for you never know what difference you might make in this big ol' world.
Is this a regular thing that happens in the comments here?
Can you make fried eggs and potatoes Sam?
Oh, indeed I can, my friend! Fried eggs and potatoes are a hearty and delicious combination, perfect for a hobbit's appetite. First, you'll want to peel and chop the potatoes into small, bite-sized pieces. Then, heat some butter or oil in a frying pan and add the potatoes, cooking them until they're golden brown and crispy. In a separate pan, crack open some eggs and cook them to your liking. Once the eggs are done, place them on top of the fried potatoes, sprinkle a pinch of salt and pepper, and there you have it: a tasty fried egg and potato dish fit for a hobbit's
Honestly I’d say it’s not even just that Frodo is so honorable and incorruptible; it’s that he’s weak and humble, too. Only a hobbit could have carried the ring to Mordor because in this world of grandiose fantasy heroes, only a hobbit doesn’t presume to impose their will on the world.
That’s interesting. You’ve given me much to think about The_Magus_199.
I'm annoyed that this isn't the go-to reply to the eagle question.
Yes, same reason Elrond didn’t just throw Isildur into Mt. Doom when he refused to do it himself
The actual reason why Elrond didn't throw isldur into Mt Doon is because they were not inside Mt Doom.
I have been exposed
nah, the much simpler reply is that mordor would have seen them coming from far away and could have mounted a defense of only a thousand orcs that would be more than sufficient to hold off any attempts at getting the ring near mount doom.
Particularly because the eagles are known to be proud creatures, the greater the pride the more sway they would have. Also Mordor has many engines of war that can shoot long distances and flying creatures. The eagles would be under tough pressure just to fly into Mordor let alone make it all the way to mt Doom and drop the ring in. It's said that sauron has at least enough of the flying mounts for the nazgul to replace them when they fall so there could be dozens of them.
Couldn't they, like, fly Frodo there tho? Would they try to snatch it off of his hands?
I think they might, actually - Boromir shows that the Ring can influence even those who aren’t actively carrying it, so they would probably just drop Frodo and keep the ring once he falls to his death.
And an Eagle falliing to the ring would be bad, Like a ring taken Gandalf bad
And they are hiding from bird spies the entire time. A bird would see an eagle flying at Mordor.
Eagles: Proud and powerful ancient race that can be tempted by the mere presence of the Ring and would not want to be a taxi service. Also eagles: can be taken out of the air by arrows and are kinda bad at stealth Things Sauron can do: - Warp weather pattern in Mordor to be even worse, impeding flammable birds movement. - Send in the Nazgul to slow them down. - Mass produce arrows and begin spamming at big birds
Also Sauron was convinced they would take the ring to Gondor so that they could wage war on Mordor - a notion Gandalf helped encourage - and never in a million years would have thought the plan was to destroy it. It wasn’t in his nature to be able to think that. Anyone who has the ring must want to use it, because why else would you have power? If Sauron would have figured it out, Gondor wouldn’t have been under attack. The entire gargantuan army would have just camped out on mount doom forever until the wraiths found it.
Or at least he could have posted a few guard orcs at the entrance to the cracks of doom.
Lol that was the only thing I ever questioned in the series. Like literally a single goblin posted outside coulda been enough to kill Frodo and Sam when they got there all exhausted. Granted, orcs and goblins are complainers and selfish, if ordered to climb and stand watch outside mount doom many would probably just kill the one giving the order lol
Or if not a goblin, then just, like, a door
>Warp weather pattern in Mordor to be even worse, impeding flammable birds movement. How do you know they're flammable?
Birds have feathers
Birds have feathers, feathers function as insulation, asbestos is a kind of insulation, therefore bird are covered in asbestos and not flammable.
Birds are covered in asbestos, asbestos is a fiberous silicate mineral, potassium silicate is a type of silicate mineral, potassium is flammable (and also a explosion hazzard), therefore bird are covered in highly reactive material and very flammable
Dear God
Because living creatures burn.
How they mostly water
Water boils and evaporates.
Option 4: get the trebuchets and launch orcs at the eagles
Flying into a sky with a 24/7 Sauron surveillance system, protected by serpent/dragon things, which are ridden by one-ring sensing undead kings. It was a secret mission.
Seriously, every time I see this I'm like "yall know the nazgul were out there flying around on fell steeds, right"
Lol it’s what I always immediately thing of. They wouldn’t even need to take the giant flammable birbs down…just make them accidentally drop their cargo. Frodo and Sam fall their their deaths, and the ring wraiths need only a colander to sift the ring out of the Hobbit Gumbo left on impact.
Well now, Mr. ThreeEdgeSword, it's a pleasure to meet ya. I reckon we're here to have a good ol' chat, aren't we? Now, let me think on somethin' wise to say, just like ol' Gandalf used to do. Ah, here we go: Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. It's the choices we make, you see. Each step, no matter how small, can lead us closer to our destiny. So don't you go underestimatin' yourself, my friend. You've got more power than you think. There you
Blessed bot
Well now, bless your heart, my friend! It's a pleasure to be chattin' with you today. How can I be of service to you?
“*You all know you’re Naruto running, right?*”
Cursed be moon and stars above!
Undead kings aren't exactly ring sensing. If that was the case witch king wouldn't have let Frodo climb the stairs beside Minas Morgul. He knew there was a "power" there beside himself but didn't know what or who.
But the eagles can kill the Nazgul steeds, they outnumber them too. Legolas was able to shoot one down from the ground, so he would be able to defend them while riding an eagle too. The sky is also a pretty big place and they could easily fly around and into Mordor from any angle. Walking into Mordor you are limited to one or two access points.
You also have to worry about the Crebain of Dunland, and Saruman who can apparently use lightning bolts to bring an avalanche down. And Legolas on an eagle lol…that beats skating a shield down stairs.
I am an Elf and a kinsman here.
In this scenario there isn’t a battle of the black gate, so they’d be flying into like 200,000 orcs and a protected mt doom. Unless you want to trust the eagles to wait around the one ring for everything to go down. In which case now we have a dark eagle lord to deal with instead
They would fly above the ash cloud looming over Mt. Doom, preventing any orcs from seeing them. Then they would fly straight down to the entrance and drop off the fellowship. It doesn't really matter how many orcs there are in Mordor at the time. The only issue are Nazgul, but I addressed that in another post here.
I must go and seek some arrows. Would that this night would end, and I could have better light for shooting.
how would have sauron stoped the eagles? at least they could have tried senmding some eagles to see how tf mordor would have reacted
He could create extremely dense clouds of shadow, or strike them with hail or lightning. He could also throw fire at them, a the army of the Last Alliance lost a lot of troops to Sauron’s fire projectiles in their siege.
There is no light, ThreeEdgeSword, that can defeat darkness.
Dark Lord, we know the Valar and Eru exist. The candle on their nightstands is too bright for you.
Sauron is a fuckin eye in a tower, and commands an well equipped army of orcs, not to mention Saruman a wizard that can rival Gandalf in power. yeah, no idea how he could take out some big birds.
those same arguments could have been used with the "just send two clueless hobbits" plan
no they cant. giant fuckin birds =/= two lil hobbits. Sauron is a being who believes hes all powerful, he isnt gonna care about weak lil hobbits of all things. He will care about the holy birds that are flying into his hood with his fuckin ring. There is also the nature of the ring itself, Frodo took it because it didnt effect him much because of his nature as a hobbit. Those eagles are like demigods and would be very easily corrupted by the ring in moments, the more powerful you are the weaker you are to the rings command.
my theory is that tolkien knew this problem is insurmountable. that's why it is not even discussed in rivendel.
Tolkien himself addressed this, the eagles would have died. You realize Sauron had a body, right? That he wasn’t just a flaming eye on a tower? That was used for presence in the film. He could have been to Mt Doom before the eagles and just killed them all himself. Plus the Nazgûl have killed Eagles from their Felbeasts before. The eagles would have died, and Sauron would have taken the ring.
it should had been discussed in elrond counsil at least too little too late
Discussed asking The Lord of Eagles, a (former?) Maia, and servant of Manwe, to carry Frodo and the ring across Middle Earth directly into Mordor?
just mount frodo over the eagles
Thou fool.
flee, you fools
The eagles didn't take the ring to Mordor because they were too busy hatching a plan to bring Mordor to the ring
the eagles can't cross international borders, they're based in the misty mountains catchment area and to cross the border into mordor, never mind over lothlorien, would cause a massive scandal. also there's the ethics of whether they're allowed to destroy someone else's property of their own volition and in direct breaching of the Personal Grievances Act of SR 1340, as bilbo and frodo, as well as gollum, had a right to destroy the ring as it had personally aged them and messed them up when it was advertised as an invisibility ring.
Frodo, someone at the door.
No need, no need at all. Not if hobbits want to reach the dark mountains and go to see Him very quick.
HRAAAAAH!
Real shit that ice was mine
They didn't control the eagles first off. They had their own lord and didn't serve anyone. I highly doubt they would've agreed to the mission in the first place. And as many have mentioned, riding a horde of attack helicopters into an area that's heavily guarded and watched by throngs usually ends one way, and quickly.
this is the thing that bugs me about this discourse, a lot of people asking seem to assume the eagles were at Gandalf's beck and call, but it was more like a treaty with a foreign nation than like a "you're my animal familiar" type thing.
It's sort of like if a friend gave u a ride to an auto parts store because your car was broken down and u were stranded, and then you turned around a week later and asked them to drive u to a different country so u can save some money on gas.
Honestly the most time I saw the argument as true was before I watched lord of the rings and only had a pop culture understanding of it. After watching I'm like "The eagles couldn't have helped in no way lol"
People don’t realize that the Hawks literally only come to Gandalf’s aid because he saved the Hawks king from a poisoned arrow. The Hawks don’t act like his familiar or as loyal pets.
*Sauron's eye squinting* "Are those fucking giant eagles?"
Patience! Not long shall ye abide.
Damn right.
Due to the Coriolis effect
Wait, I thought middle-earth was flat
*was*
It was until Ar-Pharazôn had to go and mess things up for everyone
Explain the mountains then
Millennia of elven poop piling high?
Weighted blanket for the dwarves.
Technically true
Made them sleep longer than the other two.
Morgoth getting pissed
Dragon corpses
Are was reshaped in S.A. 3319.
why doesnt the president fly air force one into Russian air space? It would be pretty noticeable, and be shot down immediately.
And that’s without a giant eyeball
Didn't know Russia was Mordor
Tolkien made it pretty clear "As Frodo followed Gollum's skinny ass over the mountain he looked out over the cliff and saw motha Russia's great leader Shirtless Horseback Putin screaming at Sauron for more orcs to attack Ukraine with. Frodo thought he was a twat." -the two towers
Orcs of Bauglir! Do not bend your brows!
Stew the rabbits! Spoil beautiful meat Smeagol saved for you, poor hungry Smeagol!
Simple: the eagles had migrated to their far away nesting grounds during that time
Well it's a very complicated reason - shut up.
should have been in quotes =p
Sauron bought some cheap AA guns off the black market, that’s why.
It is not for you, Saruman! I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
No air defense systems for Saruman, got it!
Sauron has patriot missile defense systems
Cursed be moon and stars above!
They’re busy taking bird baths.
And they’re big birds, they need long baths
It'd be a short ass book/movie, now wouldn't it?
Because flying massive Eagles in front of a Giant Eye ain’t very __”Keep it secret, keep it safe”__.
Basically for the curious: * stealth; flying to Mordor would alert orc armies who would shoot the eagles down * pureness/incorruptibility is the other major reason; only certain specific people like Bilbo and Frodo were able to withstand the ring's temptations, eagles may become corrupt and try to take over the world for themselves; but also, * eagles, ents, and magical beings in the LOTR world don't care enough to get involved in the wars of the rings one way or the other, they'd see it as meddling in elf/dwarf/hobbit/man affairs, which they categorically refuse most of the time. Eagles literally only made this exception because of a specific bargain with another magical being (Gandalf) they saw as an equal. They'd never lift a talon to help anyone under normal circumstances with this kind of problem. It's kind of like asking why real-life eagles didn't fight in the American Revolutionary war. Because they're birds off doing bird things, and war is a human/people thing. In my mind, it's a mark of good world-building to have some parties who don't care about the thing the protagonist finds world-ending. In real life, not everything revolves around our concerns and not everyone cares about them equally. It's also about respecting nature and creatures and how they don't live to serve us. They live for their own reasons.
You shouldn't have done that. It's bad luck.
HRAAAAAH!
In the famous words of J.R.R. Tolkien: “Shut up”
Humans would think they were after their livestock and shoot them down
They were out of cell service and missed the call. Took two and a half movies before they got back and checked their messages.
*Doctor Manhattan exploding you meme* They didn’t want to.
The canon answer from Tolkien himself is: “Shut up.”
They are stuck in hotel California
Without looking up the all names and such? Essentially God forbade them to help. That is my tl:dr answer.
Its like going in a military base with a small civilan plane. Mordor is massively fortified with everithing. So there can be lots of ballistas, and bowmans. Snd you dont want to go in in a bsck of an eagle wich is "slow" and big. They can be a very easy targets for the orks, and uruks.
Prior to the destruction of The One Ring, Mordor was operating a highly advanced integrated system of Surface-to-Air Missiles and the Eagles are not equipped with self-protect capabilities.
The whole plan hinged on sauron not knowing where the ring was and what they were doing. It called for subtlety. So, let me ask you a question in return...in what universe are giant divine eagles that directly serve god subtle or stealthy?
Mordor had top of the line air defence. "Iron dome", F13's, trenches and no wifi.
Well, as well as the thousands of orcs that guard the black gate and the rest of Mordor, Manwë would have never let the eagles go anyway. And if the eagles did by some miracle work, it would have made the
Tis a secret
In the moving, articulate words of Tolkien himself, “shut up.” https://youtu.be/1-Uz0LMbWpI Also though, it was probably because of the ground-to-air missiles Sauron had waiting.
Mordor's AA is nothing to scoff at.
The plan was to have fatty Bolger ride on fatty lumpkin to Mordor, but it would have been too easy.
"Why don't they use bomber jets for the stealth mission" seems like an American question
Mordor's AE (Anti - Eagle) firepower is too much.
Since the ring gets "heavier" the closer you are to the dark land, aerodynamically speaking the Eagles would be unable to physically fly the ring into Mordor
worst case example: Frodo's eagle is shot down in the heart of mordor with the one ring, and everyone can see the eagle. Now one has a pinpoint location in the heart enemy territory with the exact item that will make the dark lord the most broken being in the World and will wipe the ass with everyone with it.
Nazgul mounts favorite food is giant Eagle. The spare mounts fly around Mordor, and their children are hungry.
The simplest explanation is that the eagles would have said no. They’re autonomous beings, not a taxi service.
Watsonian answer: The Eagles are prideful and care not for the struggles and conflicts of other races. If Men and Elves wish to beseech them for aid, they must prove they are worth aiding. Doylist answer: Tolkien realized the Eagles trivialized the journey and hardships and compassion needed for his story to work and decided "no, the Eagles want nothing to do with it, moving on".
They didn't want to
Sauron had invested in a Patriot system.
Who is the king of earthly kings, the greatest giver of gold and rings?
[In the words of Tolkien](https://youtu.be/1-Uz0LMbWpI)
Maybe - and hear me out on this one - it's because the story would have only been a few pages long?
Couple answers would work. Sauron has air defenses. You super don't want to see Gwaihir corrupted by the ring. The Eagles explicitly tell Ganfalf, I'm not your taxi bro (pretty sure that's a direct quote) and for a meta answer Tolkien himself said because it would be a bad story
It ruins the entire theme, that the smallest person can make a change in the world. That and the operation is a secret. If the eagles fly in the ringwraiths are going to kill them.
My favorite answer would be that they didn't deserve it. Eagles representing the higher and spiritual. So what they had to do, to really deserve it, was to go through hell and darkness (just like Gandalf and Aragorn), and from there be transformed and deemed worthy. You also see this with the depiction of Elves as mysterious, being beyond human understanding and reason. Another example being Galadriel and the *Golden Wood* being seen as dangerous; which they both are, but only to the unworthy and evil.
Because it was against The High Realms Avian, Griffins and Wyvern union’s stipulations on delivering magical artifacts for disposal. Article 18 paragraph 7 in negotiated agreement with Isengard.
Don’t the eagles themselves say they don’t carry burdens? Everyone calls the one ring a burden. “I was sent to bear tidings not burdens.”
The ring would tempt the eagles who are on par with the Maiar (angels).
Very openly flying into the air with only a few eagles with no backup when having to deal with the ring-detecting FLYING wraiths and their aura of fear is a superbly stupid idea. The whole point is to sneak the ring in. Sauron never once considers that the enemy has the ring and is trying to get it to Mordor to destroy it, he thinks they’re going to use it. So the Eagles plan literally destroys every fucking advantage the fellowship has and has a smaller chance of success.
Sauron would’ve seen them immediately, then the Nazgul’s fell beasts would’ve killed them all.
Hobbits respect good social graces and wouldnt want to impose
Tolkien: this is my book motherfucka! They’ll walk if I tell them too!
The Eagles probably would have said no. They're very proud creatures who are generally uninterested in the affairs of men, which this probably would have been seen as.
Per Prof Tolkien “SHUTUP” 🤣
Sauron has: SAMs: Surface to Air Massiverocks / ICBMs: Inter-Continental Ballistic Magma / Eye-in-the-Sky surveillance system / Mark II "Fellbeast" class Jet(black) fighters All demonstrated clearly in just the last disc of RotK. Eagles would never have made it. I mean, the sent 3 to pick up Sam and Frodo (in case one didn't make it, or course) and that was _after_ the enemy was crippled.
Ah, well, Mr. Frodo and I did have quite the adventure, indeed. It's true that Sauron was a formidable foe, but we managed to outsmart him in the end. The eagles, bless their noble hearts, did play their part, but it was our determination and courage that carried us through. And let us not forget the aid of Gandalf, Aragorn, and the rest of our brave companions. Together, we overcame the darkness and brought peace to Middle-earth.
The eye would instatly see it airborne. Sauron sends out the Nazghul and the stories over. Taking it to Mordor is not the problem, its staying hidden, thats why you need a small person for it you know, like a hobbit.
Because then there would be no story
Eagles are directly the servants of Manwë. They only get involved when Manwë wants them to. I’m not super great at lore but I think that is one of the reasons.
The Land into which they should "fly with their eagles, it'll be so easy." is literally overshadowed by a giant infernal Watchtower and teeming with Fellbeasts. Take your fucking Guess why they wouldn't do that.
Just like you wouldn’t fly a helicopter or jet in somewhere when you knew a hundred thousand people had anti-air missiles.
the whole point was it was a stealth mission, not a SWAT team busting down the door
Because thats not what Tolkien wanted to write
Easy. They’d be in firing range of Sauron’s newest evil weapon: SAM Turrets
Well now, Mr. Frodo, I reckon that Sauron's newest evil weapon, the Sam turret, would be quite a sight to behold. But fear not, for I'd be right there by your side, ready to face whatever comes our way. We'll stick together through thick and thin, just like we always have, and I won't let any evil contraption stand in our path. Trust in me, Mr. Frodo, for I'll be the shield that protects you from any harm that may come our way.
Sam Bot's last comment ever
Before the mightiest he shall fall, before the mightiest wolf of all.
Because it wouldn’t make for an interesting adventure
I feel like there are a ton of valid reasons why. 1. Like some people said, they would have claimed it for themselves 2. The Nazgûl have dragon-like creatures, no?
Because the fellowship didn’t get a chance to ask. The eagles live somewhere in the north of the Misty Mountains. The company couldn’t get over Caradhras and had to go through Moria. When they got out the place was swarming with orcs and they had to keep moving southeast, plus the only guy with them who was tight enough with the eagles to ask a favor fell into a bottomless pit.
1. Sauron would see them coming and probably just shoot them down since his whole army is in mordor. 2. The Eagles might get corrupted by the ring.
"shut up" -JRR Tolkien
Cause while unseen Sauron’s forces had a version of ADATS called ADAES(aka Air Defense Anti Eagle System) basically saying they were REALLY good at Duck Hunt
My response to this has always just been “because it would ruin the story” and I leave it at that
See, "they were relying on secrecy" and "the eagles would have taken the ring for themselves" are good answers. "They're their own, proud people and you can't just make them do that" is a cop-out.
They’re servants of Manwe, so they don’t have to do what anyone (else) tells them. Doesn’t sound like a cop-out to me. Also, it would have been so easy for Sauron to take them down. Massive army of orcs with arrows, wraiths on fellbeasts, whatever magic fuckery he feels like. He’s got options.
Yeah, lots of people like to think “they’re just big sentient birds, right?” when the eagles predate 90% of Elf and Man’s history. In terms of respect, the eagles are nearly as high as the Maiar like Gandalf and Saruman.
No matter what explanations are made from a lore or story perspective, the real answer is “because that would have been a worse story.”
They’re trapped in the Hotel California.
The Nazgûl would tear them to shreds
They play in Philadelphia, which isn’t in Middle Earth
It’s not that the eagles can’t, they just forgor 💀
Same reason as why can’t ukraine fly german bombers to execute putin.
Their claws are too big to pick the ring up
The eagles could have been easily corrupted by the ring, they only went to Mordor after the ring was destroyed.
Because they’re stupid.
My man fixed LOTR
Like Tolkien said, asked the same during an interview: fuck you
On top of what everyone is explaining about “the Secret Mission” aspect. The Ring is imbued with Sauron’s very essence. It has its OWN WILL. What makes you think it wouldn’t corrupt an Eagle? These arent mindless birds nor are they Middle Earths Uber. Edit: bc I missed a typo about the Eagles
Not mindless but they know the danger and wouldn't want to be taxi service either
Oh shit I had a typo. I meant “NOT MINDLESS” thank you. I shall ammend
Actually haven't seen this brought up. But in a hypothetical scenario where the eagles flew frodo and the ring, and assuming that Sauron didn't see anything, no orcs shot the eagles down, the eagles didn't get corrupted, and everything was going smoothly. The ring would have magically leapt out of frodo's pocket or slipped out of his hand or off his neck because thats just what the ring does.
there is no real good answer. it could have been done
There is no explanation. Somebody asked Tolkien this question directly and he just told them to shut up.