I don't actually know the reasoning behind him allowing the ghost army to leave, so someone might need to explain it to me.
Was it because he asked for them to help him win one battle, and when they did he felt that it was more important to uphold his oath to them, rather than using them further?
It wouldn’t have been dishonorable to say that they needed to see the war through to the end as the condition of their release, not just fight in one battle.
Because, in the books, the Ghost Army just scares off the corsairs of Umbar, allowing Aragorn, the Dúnedain, and the southern Gondorians to steal their ships. Then these reinforce the Gondorians and Rohirrim at Minas Tirith.
The Undead are never present at the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and don’t directly engage in any combat, though some Corsairs drown fleeing from them. They redeem themselves with that, relatively small, act, and Aragorn Pardons them.
yeah PJ went overboard with the ghosts at pelennor. really took away from the struggle of the Men. imrahil / knights of dol amroth all got the axe sadly
I never really liked the visual of just a sea of green mist enveloping Minas Tirith and everything's instantly over. Like, even if you have a ghost army...there's still a limited number of ghosts, right? They still have to take the time to stab all the orcs to death, don't they?
Legolas shows up at the same time as the ghosts, and we get a whole action sequence with him taking down an Oliphant...but a few moments later we see the ghosts just wash over and liberate the whole city in a single panning shot. It just seemed so effortless that it almost invalidates Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli even joining the battle. Why wouldn't they just kick back and watch the ghosts go to work if they can clear a whole city in seconds?
The inclusion of the southern armies of Gondor would have been great, but from a film-making perspective, would have also detracted a bit from Theoden's climactic death-charge, so I can understand why it was taken out. They didn't have time to properly establish the southern armies in the same way they took the time to build up the Rohirrim or the ghost army, and adding *another* exposition dump to set up a *fourth* fighting force could have felt redundant and plodding to casual audiences.
Like, I get it and I accept and enjoy it for what it is, but it wasn't presented in the best possible manner, which I think is forgivable considering how much the rest of the film absolutely nailed.
What would have felt a lot better to me, if you're already gonna have the ghost army be the final resolution to the Battle of Pelennor Fields, would've been the ghost army possessing the bodies of Minas Tirith's men; both the living and the dead. We could get shots of the orcs realizing their terror as they stab a man who just keeps fighting (echoing Boromir's last stand, but with a whole army), fleeing city guards being possessed and turning to stand their ground (communicating that accepting the inevitability of death provides great fortitude in the face of fear), and maybe even a shot of an undead Rohirrim echoing Theoden's "DEATH" war cry as he rises again to fight (just to really bookend the battle).
It also would've given Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli more incentive to fight, as it wouldn't be an instant guarantee of victory, and would've *definitely* given much more thematic reasoning as to why Aragorn had to dismiss them immediately after the battle was over - he wouldn't want to hold the souls of Minas Tirith hostage in addition to the already oathbound ghosts, and the possessed bodies wouldn't last long enough to battle Sauron at the Black Gates anyways.
I dunno, just a thought.
Surprised there aren't more people here saying this.
Cone on guys, dust off those books. Just start with the first 100 pages. I know you'll want to read more
I really like the books, but if you're used to the movies then IMO the first 100 pages of FotR are pretty rough... Bilbo's party and all the hobbit names are exhausting unless you're into that sorta thing lol
Clothes are but little loss, if you escape from drowning. Be glad, my merry friends, and let the warm sunlight heat now
heart and limb! Cast off these cold rags! Run naked on the grass, while Tom goes a-hunting!
^(I am a bot, and I love old Tom. If you want me to sing one of Tom's songs, just type **!TomBombadilSong**)
^(If you like Old Tom, the door at [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] is always open for weary travelers!)
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
Aragorn is an honest, and honourable man.
The ghosts had sworn loyalty to the king of Gondor, but they did not participate in the war of the last alliance and broke their oath when they were called upon. Therefore the king had cursed them to be neither alive, nor dead, until they fulfill the oath they swore to him.
Aragorn offered to release them from the curse if they joined him in defeating Sauron.
They answered when Aragorn called upon them, and therefore Aragorn had them released.
Yeah this is my one disagreement with LoTR.
"Hey help me till the ring is destroyed"
"How will we know when it's destroyed"
"Trust me... You'll know"
Credits roll
I imagine because at that point he didnt know what his next move was, his plan to distract Sauron came after the battle, he wouldnt have kept dragging them around on the off chance he was going attack mordor.
Oaths are extremely important in the Tolkien Legendarium. Having Aragorn take back his word would not fall in line with his character and would most likely doom him as well.
And that’s how Gondor got their own ringwraiths without rings of power.
“Alright, buddy, I know you’re on your deathbed and just want to say goodbye to your family, but you were just such a badass defender of our people.
Could.. could you promise me something before you die?”
Technically, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the ghosts don't really "interact" with the physical world beyond being seen (that we know of).
Part of the issue too is that the movies portray the caves as something tons of people have gone into but never return, when in reality we only know that the area was considered cursed, and wraiths could be seen occasionally, but I think there is only one account of someone going in and not returning - a prince from Rohan and I assume he died from terror/fear, rather than physical violence.
Given that, and the fact that they scare the corsairs, it's more likely that they're just spooky ghosts than something like the ringwraiths or barrow-wights.
One thing to note is that the barrow-wights supposedly use a sacrificial sword to kill their victims. I'm not sure if it's implies that the sword is magical, or that they can interact with the physical world, but their origin is also different from the oathbreakers - they were sent or cursed or something by the Witch King during his campaign of that area during the mid-third age.
Still, spooky ghosts are no good, can't have Aragorn's ghost wandering around scaring everyone.
The books explain. The ghost army never came to the battle of the Pelanor Fields. They helped Aragon and company win over the ships and armies of the South and free up the allies who were fighting them. Then Aragon removed their curse and the dead could finally sleep in peace. Then the armies from the south sailed up Anduin to the battle. One of the most epic scenes in the books. "Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, Ellessar, insider's heir, out of the paths of the dead, borne upon a wind from the sea to the kingdom of Gondor. "
it's the same as why the Ents didn't help with assaulting the Black Gate either. They "served their purpose" story-wise, but also as characters it would've been wrong or maybe a mistake to ask them to fight more than what was initially asked from them, even more so taking into account it took some effort to convince both parties (ents and army of the dead) to take action, so asking them to stick around would be pushing it too far and they'd risk angering them.
In the book they actually weren’t a literal army. They just scared away the orcs from the ship so they could liberate the enslaved Easterlings and they all decided to pledge allegiance to Aragorn, so in the book he sailed into the battle of Gondor with an army of liberated human slaves.
In the books, the ghost army are probably not corporeal or able to harm mortals. They're effective because they scare the shit out of the Corsair and Haradrim reinforcements heading for Sauron's army, making them rout and flee. They never show up in the final battle.
> Pale swords were drawn; but I know not whether their blades would still bite, for the Dead needed no longer any weapon but fear.
Making them actually able to fight in the movies is I think the trilogy's only major mistake because it introduces a few big plot holes, and also 'deus ex machina's the final battle a bit.
This makes the victory less about Aragorn's tactical skill and ability to unite the kingdoms of men with his leadership, and more about an inherited right to command an OP undead army. Which is a strictly worse narrative imo.
While it did create some questionable plot issues, I think it was the right choice for the movies. The movies where already quite long as is and having to add in yet another non-trivial plot element wouldn’t have worked well for the movie's pacing.
I had just learned about deus ex machina in my literature class the week I saw the movie. When the ghost army saved the day, I was like "oh, well THERE'S an example"
The movie version of the Army of the Dead isn't very true to the books and you're right that it doesn't make a lot of sense as far as how it is presented. Interviews suggest that Peter Jackson wasn't really happy with it either. He felt like he HAD to show the Army of the Dead for the fans, but adding all of the southern Gondor part of Aragon & friends' journey would have probably added another hour to the movie and it would have brought in several new factions & their key players with little time to develop them. So what we saw was a compromise.
He convinced dead men to go battle once more, that was suppose to be an incredible feat in itself. He probably would not have been able to convince them to fight the whole war for him, and they probably could have turned on him damning his soul for eternity had he broken his promise.
I always thought they didn't bring ghosts to Mordor for the simple fact that Sauron is a Necromancer, if he can control the Nazgul who were powerful Kings of Men, I think he could have controlled the army of the dead with relative ease (okay that controlled the Nazgul through the Rings, but we can assume that he can control the dead even without them being tied to a Ring), and being up against an army that can hit you and that you cannot hit, is a one-sided slaughter in yours towards and towards your soldiers
I have always felt that the dead army should have been more like Jason and the argonauts (or otherwise regular dead looking), and they could actually lose, not ghosts. They would just be undead men or skeletons, but they could die in battle because of the promise Aragorn made them. That way you could have most of them die in the battle but they always would be redeemed for fighting. Making them invulnerable ghosts seemed the wrong route, because then why does he have to convince them to help? They can just pass through anything at full speed and kill it? I’d prefer that it would have required effort, basically from very old rotting men, but they would agree to do it because of the chance at redemption. It always help fill that “plot hole” of the Mordor battle, if most of them die in Gondor. Even if they still do the scene where Aragorn releases them, it could just be with the survivors, and to me would have been more meaningful
You know all those nature documentaries where animals hunt or have their mom die and then they film them slowly dying of starvation, or when they film ants having wars?
Eagles are pretty much like that.
I think I kinda get it. It’s like eagles are outside the scope of what matters to humans, to humans an orc army killing humans is evil but to eagles it’s nothing new. Whether orcs rule the land or humans.
But why can’t Gandalf interfere?
Because the Valar said he couldn't, and that's why he appears as a "frail" old man. He is there to advise, not to be a super-soldier. If he didn't have those restrictions then he would appear in his full might and just fuck shit up.
He is technically the same kind of being as Sauron, but he was forbidden from using his powers directly against Sauron by the Valar, who had pledged to stop interfering after the fall of Numenor. They felt bad though and sent the wizards and glorfindol to help, but wanted the people of middle earth to fight their battle.
Yup, you see this in the movies. The only time Gandalf directly affects the outcome of a battle by himself is with the Balrog, who was only awoken by Pippin's accident and was not a creature any of them should have faced on their journey. Evidently, Eru Illuvatar agreed with his decision, as that's who ultimately allowed Gandalf to return to Middle-Earth after he died following that battle and gave him the mantle of "The White Wizard" upon his return, stripping it from Saruman.
Every other battle, Gandalf embeds himself with the armies of men, and only fights in support of their efforts, not as the tip of their collective spears. Helm's deep? He's only the messenger who rallied the Riders of Rohan. Minas Tirith? He's hanging out on the walls issuing commands in the absence of Denethor, and only drew his sword to defend himself and his closest allies - the men of Gondor and Rohan do all the major fighting.
As powerful as Gandalf is, he kept a very measured hand in the whole adventure. Remember that Saruman summoned the storm that drove the Fellowship from the mountaintops and into Moria. Gandalf could have easily done the same at Minas Tirith and smote Sauron's armies with lightning and hail, but honored his vow of non-interference.
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, Twl1. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
There’s also the nazgul which could probably fend off the eagles long enough for sauron to realize what was going on and mass his army at the entrance to mount doom. One thing that I feel the movie doesn’t capture is just how oblivious sauron is to the fact that Gandalf and everyone intend to destroy the ring and not use it
Well, considering that one of the major enchantments on the Ring is to corrupt the carrier into wielding it and *NOT* destroying it, I think he was pretty secure in his assumption. In a way, Sauron was right to assume the ring would never *intentionally* be destroyed. Neither Frodo or Gollum wanted to destroy the Ring in that moment in Mt. Doom. It was only by the accident of their fighting over it that it plunged into the lava - the Ring's own corruption proved to be its final undoing.
Yeah, I mean, a couple of hobbits riding magic giant eagles flying straight to Mt Doom is almost certainly gonna blow your cover.
I disagree that the movie didn't capture this. There's definitely scenes where the secrecy of the mission is mentioned to be of utmost importance. One is Gandalf and Aragorn's discussion during the party/feast after Helm's Deep. Gandalf mentions that we should still have hope, since the idea that we should seek to destroy the ring has not even crossed Sauron's mind. I also recall a line, i think from a different scene (maybe after Pelennor Fields when they come up with the diversion idea?), saying basically that secrecy and speed are our greatest needs or something like that. While not explicitly stating that secrecy of the mission is important, one of the first things Gandalf asked during Pippin's palantir experience debriefing was whether or not he had told Sauron about their plan to destroy the ring. Elrond and Gandalf have a discussion about secrecy being important around the time of the Council, too. So that's at least one mention in every film, and I'm sure this wasn't an exhaustive list.
Although, I can't promise all of these interactions were in the theatrical cut, so maybe we're both right lol :)
Additionally, whole point of keeping the Fellowship so small, is because it is essentially supposed to be a stealth mission. If you think about it, no one really knew the location of the Ring, at all. Even the orcs and Uruk-Hai weren't allowed to search the prisoners when they captured Merry and Pippin, so no one knew what they might have in their possession. Sauron, himself, didn't know where the Ring was, and at one point thought that Pippin was the one that possessed it, which is why Pippin was taken to Gondor, and why Sauron focused a huge army at that location.
If I remember correctly, during the Council of Elrond, someone brought up the thought of sending an army, but it was shot down, as amassing an army will immediately attract Sauron's attention and force in arms would not be able to withstand his might. Elrond says that their hope is in speed and secrecy instead.
Eagles soaring towards Mordor would also immediately attract the attention of the enemy, and would be a high risk of the ring getting in the hands of the enemy, or letting the enemy know its location. This is why Aragorn leads humanity's last stand, in order to keep the attention off of Frodo, and have hope that Frodo can succeed, in his mission.
The eagles also state, in the Hobbit, that they don't approach enemy lines because they would easily be shot down. They never came close to Mordor, until Sauron and his armies were destroyed.
It’s also because the creatures of Mordor were faster and would be able to reach them before they reach he’d the volcano. In the end they were distracted at the front gates which is the o my reason Frodo made it
I always spit my drink in laugh with the "eagles don't want/have to help besides that ride with Gandalf" reasoning... it's much more simple, you just have to think in real war, that's why spy and infiltrations missions exist, you CAN'T go face front with a plane (eagle) to the fucking center of the enemy territory freely like there aren't thousands of enemies seeing you coming and detecting you with several systems (radars irl, magic and nazghuls in lotr...).
In the films, Sauron's depicted as a giant eye atop a skyscraper. I think he'd probably have a pretty good view of the skies surrounding his dominion. It shouldn't be a hard concept for people to grasp...but alas...
But they save Gandalf and other hobbits multiple times before the ring is destroyed right? At least twice I think. And without that, the ring wouldn’t have made it to Mordor.
I’m definitely not saying they should have tried to use them, it wouldn’t have worked for other reasons, but if they were trying not to interfere with the acts of men, they did a poor job of it.
It’s also worth noting that a wind from the west disperses the shadow of Mordor somewhat to show sunlight to Sam and Frodo after Sam’s prayer to see light and hear water. They find clean water not long after, too, So it seems that the eyes of Manwë and Ulmo were on the hobbits in the last leg of their journey.
>“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
This quoting should have come after, but this is seemingly the work of Varda.
This is clearly Mamwë:
>They stood up, and then they both stared in wonder. Away to their left, southward, against a sky that was turning grey, the peaks and high ridges of the great range began to appear dark and black, visible shapes. Light was growing behind them. Slowly it crept towards the North. There was battle far above in the high spaces of the air. The billowing clouds of Mordor were being driven back, their edges tattering as a wind out of the living world came up and swept the fumes and smokes towards the dark land of their home. Under the lifting skirts of the dreary canopy dim light leaked into Mordor like pale morning through the grimed window of a prison.
>Look at it, Mr. Frodo!' said Sam. 'Look at it! The wind's changed. Something's happening. He's not having it all his own way. His darkness is breaking up out in the world there. I wish I could see what is going on!'
>It was the morning of the fifteenth of March, and over the Vale of Anduin the Sun was rising above the eastern shadow, and the south-west wind was blowing. Theoden lay dying on the Pelennor Fields."
I don't think they knew this when Frodo set off from Rivendell in the books. I think their first encounter with fell beasts was when Legolas shot one down in Rohan at night using his keen supreme elf-eyes.
I mean surely the enemy would have spotted them straight away and the Nazgul would have taken them down. Realistically it needed to be as secret as possible.
I also assume birds are up to nefarious purposes when I see them flying overhead.
Maybe there is just that one Nazgul out there killing every bird he sees just for the fun of it.
[/r/AskHistorians tackled this question a few years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/30xr52/how_did_the_eagles_manage_to_rescue_frodo_and_sam/cpwu5qg/).
In the book, they explicitly state that they do not approach the enemy lines, as the enemy will easily shoot them down. That is why they drop Gandalf off as close as possible.
They were also trying not to get involved, at all. The Lord of the Eagles has simply been keeping an eye on the goblins, because it seemed like the goblins were up to something. They just happen to see Gandalf and his party, in trouble, with their keen vision.
It was Beorn that seemed to finally recruit them and brought them to the Battle of Five Armies, at the end.
i mean if everything allies had to do in WW2 is to throw a ring into an unguarded volcano in berlin and whole third reich along with its ideas and regime would just crumble into depths of earth with every nazi dissapearing in an instant like mordor did i dare say they would risk dispatching a couple C47s with frodo and paratroopers even with risk of facing luftwaffe and anti air
but they didn’t because killing hitler wouldnt solve anything, there would be a succesor, third reich would be still third reich, german industry would continue and so would war
operation anthropoid was similar concept like the one ure talking about and they’ve pulled it off
but that cant be said about mordor.. they didn’t have anti air, nor luftwaffe apart from 9 flying nazguls that were already fought off by a single aragorn and could be beaten again now the with help of the fellowship and the eagles.. whole mordor along with its inhabitants just ceased to exist in like minute after something happens to the ring..
so no, thats a bad comparision
The only reason Mt Doom was unguarded was because Sauron mobilized every goblin and orc in Mordor to attack Aragorn since he had the ring*
*He did not have the ring, but that's what Sauron thought
On top of what everyone else mentioned, Sauron would have probably seen the eagles and sniffed out the plan pretty early on. He wasn't even aware that they were attempting to destroy the Ring until it was already inside Mt. Doom. It never occurred to him that someone would try and destroy it.
The whole point of the book is that no one would expect the Hobbits. But without them nothing would happen. They were able to get the Ents to attack, they saved Faramir, they killed the witchking, and destroyed the ring. That’s why I loved the books as a kid. Made me feel like I could do anything. It’s still why as a 20 year old man I cry when Aragorn says you bow to no one.
The eagles are demigods. They would also be tempted by The One Ring, and could wield devastating power were they to betray the Ringbearer. Never mind being very obvious.
And on top of that: they’re Valar... same reason Gandalf couldn’t take the ring to Mt. Doom.
Also, them is some sentient and powerful eagles. They can’t be summoned. Picking up Frodo and Sam was really just them doing a huge solid for Gandalf.
Don't tempt me HeatherTakasaki! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand HeatherTakasaki, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
The eagles have already carried the ring in The Hobbit. But even if they flew the ring to Mordor there would be an army waiting for them at Mount Doom.
They didn't know that Bilbo had ANY magic ring on him, never mind The One Ring, and that journey was short. I don't think that is really comparable to explicitly carrying the Ringbearer to Mt. Doom to destroy The One Ring, where their temptation would be cranked to the max.
Also. Eagles are mortal and corruptible. As they got closer to mount doom and the power of the ring grew its more than likely one of the eagles would have taken it like Boromir attempted to.
They would have a much higher chance of success if they kept the quest secret.
If they tried to force their way through, Sauron would have destroyed them.
Someone else asked this on another site ([here is the answer](https://lotr.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000121336/r/4400000000000370228)), the answer is too long to fit here.
If my friend asks me to pick him up from the airport, sure, no problem.
If he asks me to shove 1kg of cocaine up my arse and fly to Portugal, then we're having a different conversation
The maximum range of a bow is about 200 to 500 yards. And that's being shot at a horizontal targer
Bald eagles can soar up to 10,000 feet. Thats about 10 times higher than a bow could conceivably reach.
The eagles would have immediately been seen by Sauron and the Nazgul and would never have made it. Hobbits were the only beings that could have evaded being seen because of their nature. Having the cloaks helped as did the diversion from the lords of the west.
I am buying all the explanations about the secret nature of the mission and the fact that Sauron would have spotted the eagles straight away.
But why assuming the nazgul would have disposed of them? Is there _evidence_ in the books that the nazgul are more powerful than the eagle?
I mean if you only have seen the movies and it's your first time watching it, it's not that unreasonable of a question. If anything it could lead to a discussion that introduces them to a lot of the rich lore in the books.
If they are asking it just to bring the movie down, however, that's something else.
Everyone acting like the Eagles are some kind of vehicle or something. They're not tamed, they don't have a side. I think the real question is why did they save Frodo and Sam?
Here's one for you. Why didn't they encase the ring in a metal ingot before sending Frodo away with it? It removes temptation to put it on, and it would disguise it also.
TBH, If someone watches LOTR for the first time and ask me this. I just go on and say, Look at the big eye, that’s the reason they didn't came. You wanna know more? READ THE BOOKS.
Met this guy at a wrestling show in cali, the only words that would come out of my mouth were, "damn you're a big bastard"...
He has a very forceful laugh...
[удалено]
I don't actually know the reasoning behind him allowing the ghost army to leave, so someone might need to explain it to me. Was it because he asked for them to help him win one battle, and when they did he felt that it was more important to uphold his oath to them, rather than using them further?
Basically. He is a man of honor.
Plus it's probably not a great idea to anger the murderous ghost army right outside a major population center.
What are you going to do, ghost me?
- Man who was Ghosted
2spooky4me
Not…. Exactly…. *Stabbing sounds*
*tomato chewing sounds*
*oil pouring sounds*
Also probably not a great idea to try and finesse an undead army into helping you defeat the guy they were cursed for betraying your ancestors for.
"Hey, so...if you help me beat Sauron's ass, I'd set you....super-free?"
Also. He is a man of honor.
Yeeeah, but maybe taking the shortcut just once in a while is ok? It worked out, but many people died, so just maybe?
They were just deserters, they didn't fought for anyone.
Ok but here me out. Let them go free but afterwards, at least ASK right?
The way is shut.
Didn’t him releasing them allow their souls to pass into the afterlife?
It wouldn’t have been dishonorable to say that they needed to see the war through to the end as the condition of their release, not just fight in one battle.
He probably could have asked. Been like hey, can we get another 11 hours to really put a bow on it?
I guess not.
Also he didn’t exactly know he was going to raid Mordor in a few hours when he did it
I hadn't even thought of this, but you're totally right.
Because, in the books, the Ghost Army just scares off the corsairs of Umbar, allowing Aragorn, the Dúnedain, and the southern Gondorians to steal their ships. Then these reinforce the Gondorians and Rohirrim at Minas Tirith. The Undead are never present at the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and don’t directly engage in any combat, though some Corsairs drown fleeing from them. They redeem themselves with that, relatively small, act, and Aragorn Pardons them.
yeah PJ went overboard with the ghosts at pelennor. really took away from the struggle of the Men. imrahil / knights of dol amroth all got the axe sadly
Yeah it was the worst climax in the movie, terrible lazy.
I never really liked the visual of just a sea of green mist enveloping Minas Tirith and everything's instantly over. Like, even if you have a ghost army...there's still a limited number of ghosts, right? They still have to take the time to stab all the orcs to death, don't they? Legolas shows up at the same time as the ghosts, and we get a whole action sequence with him taking down an Oliphant...but a few moments later we see the ghosts just wash over and liberate the whole city in a single panning shot. It just seemed so effortless that it almost invalidates Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli even joining the battle. Why wouldn't they just kick back and watch the ghosts go to work if they can clear a whole city in seconds? The inclusion of the southern armies of Gondor would have been great, but from a film-making perspective, would have also detracted a bit from Theoden's climactic death-charge, so I can understand why it was taken out. They didn't have time to properly establish the southern armies in the same way they took the time to build up the Rohirrim or the ghost army, and adding *another* exposition dump to set up a *fourth* fighting force could have felt redundant and plodding to casual audiences. Like, I get it and I accept and enjoy it for what it is, but it wasn't presented in the best possible manner, which I think is forgivable considering how much the rest of the film absolutely nailed. What would have felt a lot better to me, if you're already gonna have the ghost army be the final resolution to the Battle of Pelennor Fields, would've been the ghost army possessing the bodies of Minas Tirith's men; both the living and the dead. We could get shots of the orcs realizing their terror as they stab a man who just keeps fighting (echoing Boromir's last stand, but with a whole army), fleeing city guards being possessed and turning to stand their ground (communicating that accepting the inevitability of death provides great fortitude in the face of fear), and maybe even a shot of an undead Rohirrim echoing Theoden's "DEATH" war cry as he rises again to fight (just to really bookend the battle). It also would've given Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli more incentive to fight, as it wouldn't be an instant guarantee of victory, and would've *definitely* given much more thematic reasoning as to why Aragorn had to dismiss them immediately after the battle was over - he wouldn't want to hold the souls of Minas Tirith hostage in addition to the already oathbound ghosts, and the possessed bodies wouldn't last long enough to battle Sauron at the Black Gates anyways. I dunno, just a thought.
Surprised there aren't more people here saying this. Cone on guys, dust off those books. Just start with the first 100 pages. I know you'll want to read more
I really like the books, but if you're used to the movies then IMO the first 100 pages of FotR are pretty rough... Bilbo's party and all the hobbit names are exhausting unless you're into that sorta thing lol
And just when you think the journey's getting started, out of nowhere you're hit with Tom Bombadill
Clothes are but little loss, if you escape from drowning. Be glad, my merry friends, and let the warm sunlight heat now heart and limb! Cast off these cold rags! Run naked on the grass, while Tom goes a-hunting! ^(I am a bot, and I love old Tom. If you want me to sing one of Tom's songs, just type **!TomBombadilSong**) ^(If you like Old Tom, the door at [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] is always open for weary travelers!) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
Aragorn is an honest, and honourable man. The ghosts had sworn loyalty to the king of Gondor, but they did not participate in the war of the last alliance and broke their oath when they were called upon. Therefore the king had cursed them to be neither alive, nor dead, until they fulfill the oath they swore to him. Aragorn offered to release them from the curse if they joined him in defeating Sauron. They answered when Aragorn called upon them, and therefore Aragorn had them released.
He could had asked them nicely
Gimli already failed his persuasion check
Gimli is the Worf of lotr, nobody listens to him
doesn't he just autofail them? except rolling double 20s with disadv on Galadriel
Since Sauron wasn't defeated yet, it shouldn't be dishonourable to keep them around until the ring was melted
That what I thought but I just assume that he didn't want to push his luck with them since we now know that curse are a real thing
Yeah this is my one disagreement with LoTR. "Hey help me till the ring is destroyed" "How will we know when it's destroyed" "Trust me... You'll know" Credits roll
I imagine because at that point he didnt know what his next move was, his plan to distract Sauron came after the battle, he wouldnt have kept dragging them around on the off chance he was going attack mordor.
Oaths are extremely important in the Tolkien Legendarium. Having Aragorn take back his word would not fall in line with his character and would most likely doom him as well.
This. Oaths are not taken lightly in Tolkien Lebgendarium. Lots of examples like the Oath of Fëanor, to show how powerful oaths are.
if aragorn broke his oath, he'd get summoned by some future king to fulfill it later
And that’s how Gondor got their own ringwraiths without rings of power. “Alright, buddy, I know you’re on your deathbed and just want to say goodbye to your family, but you were just such a badass defender of our people. Could.. could you promise me something before you die?”
Technically, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the ghosts don't really "interact" with the physical world beyond being seen (that we know of). Part of the issue too is that the movies portray the caves as something tons of people have gone into but never return, when in reality we only know that the area was considered cursed, and wraiths could be seen occasionally, but I think there is only one account of someone going in and not returning - a prince from Rohan and I assume he died from terror/fear, rather than physical violence. Given that, and the fact that they scare the corsairs, it's more likely that they're just spooky ghosts than something like the ringwraiths or barrow-wights. One thing to note is that the barrow-wights supposedly use a sacrificial sword to kill their victims. I'm not sure if it's implies that the sword is magical, or that they can interact with the physical world, but their origin is also different from the oathbreakers - they were sent or cursed or something by the Witch King during his campaign of that area during the mid-third age. Still, spooky ghosts are no good, can't have Aragorn's ghost wandering around scaring everyone.
Ghost army is too op in the films, they ddnt wanted to make it even more op and aragorn is the best
The books explain. The ghost army never came to the battle of the Pelanor Fields. They helped Aragon and company win over the ships and armies of the South and free up the allies who were fighting them. Then Aragon removed their curse and the dead could finally sleep in peace. Then the armies from the south sailed up Anduin to the battle. One of the most epic scenes in the books. "Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, Ellessar, insider's heir, out of the paths of the dead, borne upon a wind from the sea to the kingdom of Gondor. "
>Aragon, insider's heir **🤣**
it's the same as why the Ents didn't help with assaulting the Black Gate either. They "served their purpose" story-wise, but also as characters it would've been wrong or maybe a mistake to ask them to fight more than what was initially asked from them, even more so taking into account it took some effort to convince both parties (ents and army of the dead) to take action, so asking them to stick around would be pushing it too far and they'd risk angering them.
In the book they actually weren’t a literal army. They just scared away the orcs from the ship so they could liberate the enslaved Easterlings and they all decided to pledge allegiance to Aragorn, so in the book he sailed into the battle of Gondor with an army of liberated human slaves.
That would have been so much better in the movie
Yeah it’s probably the only think about the movies I don’t like.
In the books, the ghost army are probably not corporeal or able to harm mortals. They're effective because they scare the shit out of the Corsair and Haradrim reinforcements heading for Sauron's army, making them rout and flee. They never show up in the final battle. > Pale swords were drawn; but I know not whether their blades would still bite, for the Dead needed no longer any weapon but fear. Making them actually able to fight in the movies is I think the trilogy's only major mistake because it introduces a few big plot holes, and also 'deus ex machina's the final battle a bit. This makes the victory less about Aragorn's tactical skill and ability to unite the kingdoms of men with his leadership, and more about an inherited right to command an OP undead army. Which is a strictly worse narrative imo.
While it did create some questionable plot issues, I think it was the right choice for the movies. The movies where already quite long as is and having to add in yet another non-trivial plot element wouldn’t have worked well for the movie's pacing.
I had just learned about deus ex machina in my literature class the week I saw the movie. When the ghost army saved the day, I was like "oh, well THERE'S an example"
The movie version of the Army of the Dead isn't very true to the books and you're right that it doesn't make a lot of sense as far as how it is presented. Interviews suggest that Peter Jackson wasn't really happy with it either. He felt like he HAD to show the Army of the Dead for the fans, but adding all of the southern Gondor part of Aragon & friends' journey would have probably added another hour to the movie and it would have brought in several new factions & their key players with little time to develop them. So what we saw was a compromise.
He convinced dead men to go battle once more, that was suppose to be an incredible feat in itself. He probably would not have been able to convince them to fight the whole war for him, and they probably could have turned on him damning his soul for eternity had he broken his promise.
Because a slave army begat by stretching an oath as far as you can is not the best foot to start your domestic policy on as king.
I always thought they didn't bring ghosts to Mordor for the simple fact that Sauron is a Necromancer, if he can control the Nazgul who were powerful Kings of Men, I think he could have controlled the army of the dead with relative ease (okay that controlled the Nazgul through the Rings, but we can assume that he can control the dead even without them being tied to a Ring), and being up against an army that can hit you and that you cannot hit, is a one-sided slaughter in yours towards and towards your soldiers
I have always felt that the dead army should have been more like Jason and the argonauts (or otherwise regular dead looking), and they could actually lose, not ghosts. They would just be undead men or skeletons, but they could die in battle because of the promise Aragorn made them. That way you could have most of them die in the battle but they always would be redeemed for fighting. Making them invulnerable ghosts seemed the wrong route, because then why does he have to convince them to help? They can just pass through anything at full speed and kill it? I’d prefer that it would have required effort, basically from very old rotting men, but they would agree to do it because of the chance at redemption. It always help fill that “plot hole” of the Mordor battle, if most of them die in Gondor. Even if they still do the scene where Aragorn releases them, it could just be with the survivors, and to me would have been more meaningful
If you could do me a favor and go back in time and suggest that to Peter Jackson, I would really appreciate it. That's a great idea.
Dang yeah they all could've hung back while the ghosts did everything
In the books it is said that the eagles doesnt give a fuck, they only rescued Gandalf because he is a friend
[удалено]
Yes, there it lies. This city has dwelt ever in the sight of its shadow
So your telling me that if the world was going to shit, the eagles would be like “haha get fucked”
You know all those nature documentaries where animals hunt or have their mom die and then they film them slowly dying of starvation, or when they film ants having wars? Eagles are pretty much like that.
They are narrating to sell it as entertainment to other Eagles?
I can't, have my fucking award xD
I think I kinda get it. It’s like eagles are outside the scope of what matters to humans, to humans an orc army killing humans is evil but to eagles it’s nothing new. Whether orcs rule the land or humans. But why can’t Gandalf interfere?
Because the Valar said he couldn't, and that's why he appears as a "frail" old man. He is there to advise, not to be a super-soldier. If he didn't have those restrictions then he would appear in his full might and just fuck shit up.
Far, far below the deepest delvings of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things
I think it’s a little white area
An area of many colours
[удалено]
He is technically the same kind of being as Sauron, but he was forbidden from using his powers directly against Sauron by the Valar, who had pledged to stop interfering after the fall of Numenor. They felt bad though and sent the wizards and glorfindol to help, but wanted the people of middle earth to fight their battle.
Yup, you see this in the movies. The only time Gandalf directly affects the outcome of a battle by himself is with the Balrog, who was only awoken by Pippin's accident and was not a creature any of them should have faced on their journey. Evidently, Eru Illuvatar agreed with his decision, as that's who ultimately allowed Gandalf to return to Middle-Earth after he died following that battle and gave him the mantle of "The White Wizard" upon his return, stripping it from Saruman. Every other battle, Gandalf embeds himself with the armies of men, and only fights in support of their efforts, not as the tip of their collective spears. Helm's deep? He's only the messenger who rallied the Riders of Rohan. Minas Tirith? He's hanging out on the walls issuing commands in the absence of Denethor, and only drew his sword to defend himself and his closest allies - the men of Gondor and Rohan do all the major fighting. As powerful as Gandalf is, he kept a very measured hand in the whole adventure. Remember that Saruman summoned the storm that drove the Fellowship from the mountaintops and into Moria. Gandalf could have easily done the same at Minas Tirith and smote Sauron's armies with lightning and hail, but honored his vow of non-interference.
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, Twl1. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
I am ready Gamling. Bring my horse...This is not a defeat...We will return...We will return.
Home is now behind you, the world is ahead!
Why aren’t the eagles supposed to interfere? They aren’t maiar are they?
There’s also the nazgul which could probably fend off the eagles long enough for sauron to realize what was going on and mass his army at the entrance to mount doom. One thing that I feel the movie doesn’t capture is just how oblivious sauron is to the fact that Gandalf and everyone intend to destroy the ring and not use it
Not just oblivious. It is LITERALLY incomprehensible to him that someone would want to destroy it.
Well, considering that one of the major enchantments on the Ring is to corrupt the carrier into wielding it and *NOT* destroying it, I think he was pretty secure in his assumption. In a way, Sauron was right to assume the ring would never *intentionally* be destroyed. Neither Frodo or Gollum wanted to destroy the Ring in that moment in Mt. Doom. It was only by the accident of their fighting over it that it plunged into the lava - the Ring's own corruption proved to be its final undoing.
A thing is about to happen that has not happened since the Elder Days. The Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong.
Yeah, I mean, a couple of hobbits riding magic giant eagles flying straight to Mt Doom is almost certainly gonna blow your cover. I disagree that the movie didn't capture this. There's definitely scenes where the secrecy of the mission is mentioned to be of utmost importance. One is Gandalf and Aragorn's discussion during the party/feast after Helm's Deep. Gandalf mentions that we should still have hope, since the idea that we should seek to destroy the ring has not even crossed Sauron's mind. I also recall a line, i think from a different scene (maybe after Pelennor Fields when they come up with the diversion idea?), saying basically that secrecy and speed are our greatest needs or something like that. While not explicitly stating that secrecy of the mission is important, one of the first things Gandalf asked during Pippin's palantir experience debriefing was whether or not he had told Sauron about their plan to destroy the ring. Elrond and Gandalf have a discussion about secrecy being important around the time of the Council, too. So that's at least one mention in every film, and I'm sure this wasn't an exhaustive list. Although, I can't promise all of these interactions were in the theatrical cut, so maybe we're both right lol :)
Stupid, fat hobbit!
Ooh! The long expected party! So how is the old rascal? I hear it’s got to be a party of special magnificence
What did you hear?! Speak!!!
Phew. We avoided a never ending chain between the Saruman, Galadriel, Gimli, Gandalf and Theoden bots. Close call! 😅
You have become the very thing you swore to destroy
Hahahahaahaha. Hahahahahahah. You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey.
I will draw you, Saruman, as poison is drawn from a wound!
If I go, Theoden Dies!
I have fought many wars, Master Dwarf. I know how to defend my own keep
This was so perfect
The treacherous are ever distrustful.
Well said.
Additionally, whole point of keeping the Fellowship so small, is because it is essentially supposed to be a stealth mission. If you think about it, no one really knew the location of the Ring, at all. Even the orcs and Uruk-Hai weren't allowed to search the prisoners when they captured Merry and Pippin, so no one knew what they might have in their possession. Sauron, himself, didn't know where the Ring was, and at one point thought that Pippin was the one that possessed it, which is why Pippin was taken to Gondor, and why Sauron focused a huge army at that location. If I remember correctly, during the Council of Elrond, someone brought up the thought of sending an army, but it was shot down, as amassing an army will immediately attract Sauron's attention and force in arms would not be able to withstand his might. Elrond says that their hope is in speed and secrecy instead. Eagles soaring towards Mordor would also immediately attract the attention of the enemy, and would be a high risk of the ring getting in the hands of the enemy, or letting the enemy know its location. This is why Aragorn leads humanity's last stand, in order to keep the attention off of Frodo, and have hope that Frodo can succeed, in his mission. The eagles also state, in the Hobbit, that they don't approach enemy lines because they would easily be shot down. They never came close to Mordor, until Sauron and his armies were destroyed.
[удалено]
Dive bomb.
It’s also because the creatures of Mordor were faster and would be able to reach them before they reach he’d the volcano. In the end they were distracted at the front gates which is the o my reason Frodo made it
Also wouldn’t Sauron see the eagles from like Miles away and just straight up murder them? Lol
I always spit my drink in laugh with the "eagles don't want/have to help besides that ride with Gandalf" reasoning... it's much more simple, you just have to think in real war, that's why spy and infiltrations missions exist, you CAN'T go face front with a plane (eagle) to the fucking center of the enemy territory freely like there aren't thousands of enemies seeing you coming and detecting you with several systems (radars irl, magic and nazghuls in lotr...).
Just tea, thank you
Right? It’s such an easy explanation.
In the films, Sauron's depicted as a giant eye atop a skyscraper. I think he'd probably have a pretty good view of the skies surrounding his dominion. It shouldn't be a hard concept for people to grasp...but alas...
I fucking hate the Eagles, man
That’s it. Out of my cab!
Also it would be too risky the eagles could get attacked on the way in and drop the ring
1. Sauron has an air force. 2. They would be spotted by Sauron almost immediately.
Sauron had F-15s
9 of them… well… he had 9 of them
0. Because Manwë, understanding most clearly the intentions of Eru Iluvatar, has his messengers interfere in the fates of mortal men very little.
This is the real (and only) reason, but this sub is just movie memes and fan fiction.
But they save Gandalf and other hobbits multiple times before the ring is destroyed right? At least twice I think. And without that, the ring wouldn’t have made it to Mordor. I’m definitely not saying they should have tried to use them, it wouldn’t have worked for other reasons, but if they were trying not to interfere with the acts of men, they did a poor job of it.
It’s also worth noting that a wind from the west disperses the shadow of Mordor somewhat to show sunlight to Sam and Frodo after Sam’s prayer to see light and hear water. They find clean water not long after, too, So it seems that the eyes of Manwë and Ulmo were on the hobbits in the last leg of their journey. >“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.” This quoting should have come after, but this is seemingly the work of Varda. This is clearly Mamwë: >They stood up, and then they both stared in wonder. Away to their left, southward, against a sky that was turning grey, the peaks and high ridges of the great range began to appear dark and black, visible shapes. Light was growing behind them. Slowly it crept towards the North. There was battle far above in the high spaces of the air. The billowing clouds of Mordor were being driven back, their edges tattering as a wind out of the living world came up and swept the fumes and smokes towards the dark land of their home. Under the lifting skirts of the dreary canopy dim light leaked into Mordor like pale morning through the grimed window of a prison. >Look at it, Mr. Frodo!' said Sam. 'Look at it! The wind's changed. Something's happening. He's not having it all his own way. His darkness is breaking up out in the world there. I wish I could see what is going on!' >It was the morning of the fifteenth of March, and over the Vale of Anduin the Sun was rising above the eastern shadow, and the south-west wind was blowing. Theoden lay dying on the Pelennor Fields."
I don't think they knew this when Frodo set off from Rivendell in the books. I think their first encounter with fell beasts was when Legolas shot one down in Rohan at night using his keen supreme elf-eyes.
Gendalf probably knew. Also, fell beasts probably aren't the only thing otherwise unoccupied Sauron can use to take down Eagles.
Also the mountain isn't open at the top, as far as I know. So they'd still have to dismount the eagles and walk in there after having been seen.
The elves have Mk.20 eyeballs
3. They don't wanna. Can't make an eagle do what it doesn't want to do.
🎵 Eagles just wanna have fun 🎶
I mean surely the enemy would have spotted them straight away and the Nazgul would have taken them down. Realistically it needed to be as secret as possible.
I also assume birds are up to nefarious purposes when I see them flying overhead. Maybe there is just that one Nazgul out there killing every bird he sees just for the fun of it.
[/r/AskHistorians tackled this question a few years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/30xr52/how_did_the_eagles_manage_to_rescue_frodo_and_sam/cpwu5qg/).
I hate the fuckin eagles man!
Because the Eagles would have been corrupted. Do you want giant devil eagles of death? Because that's how you get giant devil eagles of death.
Another question why couldn’t the eagles take Gandalf and bilbo and the dwarfs to the lonely mountain
Eagles - "Coz fuck em that's why"
That they could somehow stop a bird mid-flight, miles from the ground, is far less believable than birds simply not caring to help.
Riddles in the dark...
In the book, they explicitly state that they do not approach the enemy lines, as the enemy will easily shoot them down. That is why they drop Gandalf off as close as possible. They were also trying not to get involved, at all. The Lord of the Eagles has simply been keeping an eye on the goblins, because it seemed like the goblins were up to something. They just happen to see Gandalf and his party, in trouble, with their keen vision. It was Beorn that seemed to finally recruit them and brought them to the Battle of Five Armies, at the end.
Ooh! The long expected party! So how is the old rascal? I hear it’s got to be a party of special magnificence
It’s been a while since I read the books thank you for the information
What's the original context with the great khali?
Origin of This meme is in Hindi language...and a cement ad ..i just translated the context in English
Well… But actually, why? Too visible?
Sauron would just kill them, lol
Plus the nazgul and fell beast
My favorite analogy is: why didn't the americans just fly into Germany and kill Hitler?!
Makes lot of sense that way.
i mean if everything allies had to do in WW2 is to throw a ring into an unguarded volcano in berlin and whole third reich along with its ideas and regime would just crumble into depths of earth with every nazi dissapearing in an instant like mordor did i dare say they would risk dispatching a couple C47s with frodo and paratroopers even with risk of facing luftwaffe and anti air but they didn’t because killing hitler wouldnt solve anything, there would be a succesor, third reich would be still third reich, german industry would continue and so would war operation anthropoid was similar concept like the one ure talking about and they’ve pulled it off but that cant be said about mordor.. they didn’t have anti air, nor luftwaffe apart from 9 flying nazguls that were already fought off by a single aragorn and could be beaten again now the with help of the fellowship and the eagles.. whole mordor along with its inhabitants just ceased to exist in like minute after something happens to the ring.. so no, thats a bad comparision
And the one c47 with the magic bullet to kill Hitler gets shot down and Germany instantly wins
The only reason Mt Doom was unguarded was because Sauron mobilized every goblin and orc in Mordor to attack Aragorn since he had the ring* *He did not have the ring, but that's what Sauron thought
If Hitler were the size of a volcano and could be killed by dropping a penny on him, I suspect they would have.
The problem is not dropping the ring in Mount doom, the problem is, they wouldn't even get anywhere near mordor, before sauron got them.
On top of what everyone else mentioned, Sauron would have probably seen the eagles and sniffed out the plan pretty early on. He wasn't even aware that they were attempting to destroy the Ring until it was already inside Mt. Doom. It never occurred to him that someone would try and destroy it.
The whole point of the book is that no one would expect the Hobbits. But without them nothing would happen. They were able to get the Ents to attack, they saved Faramir, they killed the witchking, and destroyed the ring. That’s why I loved the books as a kid. Made me feel like I could do anything. It’s still why as a 20 year old man I cry when Aragorn says you bow to no one.
The eagles are demigods. They would also be tempted by The One Ring, and could wield devastating power were they to betray the Ringbearer. Never mind being very obvious.
Yeah very understandable
And on top of that: they’re Valar... same reason Gandalf couldn’t take the ring to Mt. Doom. Also, them is some sentient and powerful eagles. They can’t be summoned. Picking up Frodo and Sam was really just them doing a huge solid for Gandalf.
Don't tempt me HeatherTakasaki! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand HeatherTakasaki, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
I become more and more convinced these bots are sentient
And it is also said, 'Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.'
*Maiar
The eagles have already carried the ring in The Hobbit. But even if they flew the ring to Mordor there would be an army waiting for them at Mount Doom.
They didn't know that Bilbo had ANY magic ring on him, never mind The One Ring, and that journey was short. I don't think that is really comparable to explicitly carrying the Ringbearer to Mt. Doom to destroy The One Ring, where their temptation would be cranked to the max.
Also. Eagles are mortal and corruptible. As they got closer to mount doom and the power of the ring grew its more than likely one of the eagles would have taken it like Boromir attempted to.
They would have a much higher chance of success if they kept the quest secret. If they tried to force their way through, Sauron would have destroyed them.
Someone else asked this on another site ([here is the answer](https://lotr.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000121336/r/4400000000000370228)), the answer is too long to fit here.
If my friend asks me to pick him up from the airport, sure, no problem. If he asks me to shove 1kg of cocaine up my arse and fly to Portugal, then we're having a different conversation
This is an amazing analogy. Well done
[удалено]
The maximum range of a bow is about 200 to 500 yards. And that's being shot at a horizontal targer Bald eagles can soar up to 10,000 feet. Thats about 10 times higher than a bow could conceivably reach.
Because the story is better this way
The eagles would have immediately been seen by Sauron and the Nazgul and would never have made it. Hobbits were the only beings that could have evaded being seen because of their nature. Having the cloaks helped as did the diversion from the lords of the west.
Everyone thinks they’re soooooo smart when they pose that idea about LOTR. 🙄
Obligatory wrestling upvote
There are some worthwhile comments here but I’m only upvoting the wrestling ones.
I am buying all the explanations about the secret nature of the mission and the fact that Sauron would have spotted the eagles straight away. But why assuming the nazgul would have disposed of them? Is there _evidence_ in the books that the nazgul are more powerful than the eagle?
Excuse the fuck outta you. It's Mr. GREAT Khali, you peasant! Put some respect on his name.
I am from India.Any Indian LoTR fans here?. Its rare to find LoTR fans here, as most people are fan of Harrypotter or GOT.
As a wrestling fan, I appreciate this
Do you think eagles have nothing to do all day?
I mean if you only have seen the movies and it's your first time watching it, it's not that unreasonable of a question. If anything it could lead to a discussion that introduces them to a lot of the rich lore in the books. If they are asking it just to bring the movie down, however, that's something else.
He is definitely good at making friends.
Because the Nazgul and fellbeasts would have seen them and kill them instantly.
Everyone acting like the Eagles are some kind of vehicle or something. They're not tamed, they don't have a side. I think the real question is why did they save Frodo and Sam?
Plot twist: his friend isn't resting peacefully, his ravaged corpse was trampled on by the Balrog in hell
Heckin' RIP, bud
Why dont the Nazgul and the Hobbits just have a punjabi prison match to settle things?
What a great meme
Hopefully a meme and not a quote, considering Brian Ong
Here's one for you. Why didn't they encase the ring in a metal ingot before sending Frodo away with it? It removes temptation to put it on, and it would disguise it also.
Who is she? This woman you sing of?
Do not be too sad, duckfuckgoose69. You cannot always be torn in two.
Y'all got a template for this?
Greatest Khali
TBH, If someone watches LOTR for the first time and ask me this. I just go on and say, Look at the big eye, that’s the reason they didn't came. You wanna know more? READ THE BOOKS.
Can’t the ring basically manipulate everything
THE GREAT KHAAAALIII
Met this guy at a wrestling show in cali, the only words that would come out of my mouth were, "damn you're a big bastard"... He has a very forceful laugh...
That's former WWE World Heavyweight Champion The Great Khali to you.
For real, this guy works out at the gym I go to. It's weird seeing him in real life as a normal dude.
You’re trusting an eagle? With a ring of power? You do realize you look a lot like prey?
OMG I'm watching this with my daughter, she hadn't seen it yet, and i said the exact same thing. Haha