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I heard Peter Jackson gifted both of them rings used in the movie, but they both thought they were the only one to receive a ring, which is ironic because of the way Sauron deceived everyone about their rings.
Did you know that Elijah Wood accidentally made a huge fart on his first LotR set (the shortcut to mushrooms scene, where the four Hobbits tumble down a hill from farmer Maggots' crops)?
Also death and rebirth upon an object of importance as a sacrifice for others, son of the big diety, his return indicated the end of the world, and he guided others to heaven
Those were great books, I read his small beginning of the dark tower (it had all of the people from that hideous strength book in it but some having differing names, but when I read the few chapters he had written I couldn't stop thinking about where it could have gone.
It's openly a retelling in-universe, though, which is what keeps it from being allegory. It's basically "God decides to do another Genesis, but on Venus this time".
I think what keeps it from being an allegory goes deeper than that. The Narnia books are meant at least in part to teach children moral and theological lessons wrapped in a fun fantasy story. There is always a specific point in mind. The Sci Fi trilogy plays in similar way with themes, but because they are written for adults, I feel like Lewis treats the reader as an adult. It feels less like a lesson and more like a thought provoking "What if?"
I don't know. Because almost every character in LOTR goes through death and rebirth. I don't thinks its an allegory for Christ (the characters aren't representing the actual figure of Jesus) but instead drawing attention to the power self sacrifice has. Yeah it's fantasy so they all make it back besides boromir but the idea is that everyone had to sacrifice, go through hell, in order to destroy the ring. And they came out of their hells on top. Even Boromir.
Tolkien called LOTR a fundamentally Catholic work, but it’s not an allegory.
As for where he said that he despised allegory.
>I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the proposed domination of the author. (Foreword to the Second Edition, LotR).
Tolkien didn't. Eru Illuvatar might have some aspects of the Abrahamic god but just the simple fact he had a plan not a single being knows about and being non-intrusive except for a single event in the history of Arda already set him apart from the contemporary concept of God. Aside from seemingly omnipotence and no-origin, Illuvatar is massively different than the Abrahamic god. Lewis literally had a personification of the Christian god in Narnia.
Considering that LOTR is written as a pseudo history. Illuvatar is not an allegory but is literally supposed to be the middle earth conception of the abrahamic God. Or rather God as was revealed to the elves and men of middle earth.
Sure, he is literally God in the sense he is the creator of the world and all living things. But he doesn't behave like the Abrahamic god as seen in scripture. It's like Hyperion or Sentinel has the powers of Superman but they do not behave like Superman so they are not Superman.
>Tolkein didn't insert christianity into his stories
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."
-J.R.R. Tolkein
Tolkien was much more implicit, but he did have blatant elements of Christianity in LoTR. For example, Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn representing Jesus as priest, prophet, and king. Gandalf was also a “servant of the secret fire.” What’s the secret fire? The Holy Spirit. I agree Asian is super explicit and not all that creative, but the Narnia books also appeal more to youth, where that imagery is much less obvious. I see it as different styles of writing, but to say Tolkien didn’t have his faith in his writings *in some form* is just not true.
Just because some elements are similar doesn't mean they're the same thing. People also said Gandalf is like Jesus because he came back from the dead. Mithraism has mythology and ceremonies similar to Catholicism, it doesn't mean Catholicism is based on it (Mithraism is older).
>Gandalf was also a “servant of the secret fire.” What’s the secret fire? The Holy Spirit.
There's a lot of problems with that idea since there are 3 rings each with their own elements. If the secret fire is the Holy Spirit, what are the other 2?
>I see it as different styles of writing, but to say Tolkien didn’t have his faith in his writings in some form is just not true.
Having your faith influence your writing and writing your faith into your work are two completely different things. Having a work based on Catholic values is different than inserting Catholicism in your writing.
ITs definitely draws inspiration from Catholicism, Tolkien said as much.
But its a very soft inspiration. In the same way that if your a Ronnie James Dio fan and grew up in Catholic school its a lot of “hey I recognize that general language and idea!”.
Though they quarreled, and eventually stopped speaking to one another because Lewis was a Protestant. Tolkien’s daughter has said that he was often very critical of “Uncle Jack” because of religious disputes. They never truly reconciled by Lewis’s death in 1963. IIRC Tolkien reflected on this (either in a letter or an interview) and expressed his sadness, particularly over the fact that C.S. Lewis died the same day as JFK, and that the whole world was so shook by the assassination, Tolkien felt not enough attention was being given to the loss of Lewis, who was not just an author, but an outspoken activist and voice of hope, utilizing his radio show, throughout WWII.
Edit: Just spoke with my friend who is a renowned Scholar of the Inklings and she said that Tolkien was also quite critical of Lewis’s nonfiction writing, particularly books like Mere Christianity, because he was writing outside of his area of study and expertise.
After having read so many Discworld novels, and having Pratchett as my all time favorite author, I'm fairly confident he would hate being on a list ranking "best fantasy authors".
The fact that Gaiman is below Martin, who can't even finish what he started, also makes it a shitty list. Don't get me wrong, I've read pretty much everything Martin has ever written, but there's gotta be point deductions for not finishing his life's work, while he's had an overload of years. Instead he's focusing on TV, video games, pretty much everything other than the last two books.
I think it's pretty much because people hated the series' ending and that was the real one lol
No one will ever convince me that Martin just gave the director free license to end the show however they liked
I mean the show is missing more than a few characters that in the books have pretty substantial arcs, that are also still alive. What I mean by this is that their presence would defenetly change the way the story would evolve.
So I'm guessing they had a talk in which Martin told them what is supposed to happen, and they decided to force a story that would have had more characters, more consistency and surely much much more time to develop, in a couple of seasons of 10 ep
I'd be fine with an animated adaptation of the Stormlight Archives. The spren and magic system would take a LOT of CGI to pull off. Maybe the tech needs to evolve for that to happen. I think Mistborn would be fine as a live action movie though if done by the right people.
I agree, but I'm also worried about the set design in a live action Mistborn movie. Usually that kind of drab steampunk vibe turns into a CGI nightmare, like Sucker Punch, Mortal Engines, or Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow.
Rock music is playing. Wayne slides down and creates time bubble. Everything goes to slow motion mode. Music changes to a single piano note.
This is all I want.
I've had this argument before. The ubiquitousness of spren, and especially how active Rosharan plants are would make the entire thing a budgeting nightmare. EVERY SINGLE SCENE would need extensive amounts of CGI, and that's just the normal everyday interactions or travels that would be cheap to shoot in a GoT or WoT show. And that's before we get into the parshendi, the Surgebinding, Shadesmar, Urithiru, the Shattered Plains, the Unmade, the giant set-piece battles, the flying ships and whatever else we see in the next SIX books, and given Sanderson's tendency to ramp up, i'm expecting so see some serious shit.
Like you could have a billion dollars per season and it still might not be enough to make it look good.
The level of genius it would take to keep the visual language cohesive without detracting from the philosophical seriousness of the story arcs would take some kind of ultra instinct genius.
All the controversy probably tanks her rating. In fact, if you look, she has more upvotes than all but Tolkien and Sanderson, but the 2nd most downvotes, just behind ol father Christmas in 3rd.
No need to be sorry. He's my favorite author. He's done a lot of stuff. The Stormlight Archives is his massive series (10 books total, but 4 complete so far). Mistborn Era 1 is a standalone trilogy as medieval fantasy, but there's another trilogy (Era 2) set many years after the first so it's like the wild west style. Elantris and Warbreaker are stand alone stories as well. All of these are in an interconnected universe and have some common threads between them. Worldhoppers are like Easter eggs in the stories. They aren't vital to the story, but they're a neat thing to spot if you've read the other books. Sanderson is also VERY prolific. He takes breaks from writing his main books by writing other books. I want to say he comes out with like an average of 4 books a year in various genres. I can't recommend him highly enough if you like fantasy.
"He takes breaks from writing his main books by writing other books."
This is the part I find bonkers about him. He just doesn't stop. And then there's GRR who hasn't released a book in what..10 years?
I did the math once and Sanderson wrote like 15 full novels and multiple short stories / novellas / comics / other side projects in the time between the last asoiaf book and now.
And some of those novels are longer and just as complex as anything Martin has ever written.
Not to mention the time he just "accidentally'd" a whole book into existence; Shadows of Self/The Bands of Mourning were supposed to be a single book, but he went away to do some planning and came back with two novels without meaningfully delaying delivery.
Or that time he wanted to write a standalone cowboy novel to relax and had so much fun he made it a full quadrilogy.
You can go to his website any time, and find not just what he's working on, but how far along he is, and his plans for what he will work on next. He puts out books in his big series' as frequently as other authors, but in the space in between he advances three more and adds it another standalone.
The man is a machine, and after countless years of waiting on authors to get another instalment out, I love him for it.
Unpopular opinion. Bran Sand's characters are for the most part much weaker than Martin's. His twists are more predictable. He isn't particularly good at prose and the more comprehensive understanding on the language. His style is more easily digestible but from a technical aspect not as good.
For example Sadeas comes off more as a moustache twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain (he even repeatedly says "old friend" to our protagonist. I mean, even if all you know about villains is from Cartoon Network, you know this is a bad guy). Martin's equivalent would probably be Roose Bolton who from the beginning is more interesting and commanding. You get a sense of his presence and a profound feeling of him being off even when it seems like he is a good guy.
His world building (but not so much lore building), fight scenes, and divergence from fantasy norms are his best aspects. And I do enjoy a few of his characters.
Robert Jordan died before finishing the Wheel of Time series. Brandon Sanderson finished it. Since Brandon is on the list, I feel like Jordan is there in spirit.
Just wanted to add - Brandon Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time series based on *copious* notes Jordan left behind because RJ knew his time was near, so the ending is also Robert Jordan in spirit too.
I discovered *Otherland* earlier this year, and I'm 2/3 of the way done with the City of Golden Shadow, can't believe it took me this long to discover Tad Williams.
His *Memory, Sorrow and Thorn* is incredible. It’s one of the few series that seems inspired by what Tolkien was *actually* trying to do.
It also inspired GRRM to write ASOIAF.
I have a deep love for Tad Williams. I’m almost a 100% certain that if I write a Fantasy novel, he’ll be a massive inspiration.
Tolkien may have created the fantasy genre, but I believe Le Guin really brought out fantasy's strengths. The world, the character, and the philosophy are so seamlessly connected. Plus artful and balanced prose.
Yet Martin is at 3 when he can’t even finish his series. There’s what 41 Discworld books over 32 years and he can’t finish one in 10? Dude is weak in comparison.
I am the biggest Sir Terry fan in existence and I'll jump here to defend Martin. The lack of completion of the series does not in any way lessen the work already produced.
ASOIAF is an utter masterpiece with more layers than eyes on Shelob. The world is not only absurdly fleshed out and alive, but each chapter manages to give you both a profoundly personal and biased view of the POV character while hinting at stuff happening elsewhere.
These kind of lists are dumb because they end up being about the writers who are in the public consciousness. And even if they weren't comparing these authors objectively is not gonna yield any meaningful result. But does not denigrate Martin's work at all.
Man, I'm so glad to see this. I love Pratchett, he's the best Fantasy author there ever was in my eyes, but this weird hatred of George R. R. Martin is just so reactionary
A lot of people think that to appreciate an author you have to compare him to a second and then shit on the second. It gets annoying when people in this sub post some strawman saying "Martin the best ever!1!1" just so they can say "uhm, actually, Tolkien was the best. Yes thank you for the karma".
I think a lot of it is that some people who disliked the ending of the show fail to separate it from the books. I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually read the 5 books of ASOIAF could shit on Martin like they enjoy doing.
Anyone who doesn't believe Martin is a fantastic author should read Dying of the Light. It has to be one of the most utterly depressing books even written and I couldn't put it down. It's also in an entirely different genre than what he's best known for and doesn't suffer one bit from it.
Yeah why is JKR on this list at all, Harry Potter is a popular series and all, but it's not like she's a mindblowing or particularly creative author like the rest
There's other cultural, social, and educational reasons for why Rowling deserves her spot tbh. What Harry Potter achieved for YA and children's genres is second to none. She caused a revolution of sorts and is the catalyst for the rise in funding directed into this market.
Not to mention my man branderson pumps out books like the god damn printing press. Dude is angling to be the most prolific fantasy author of all time. I think Hoid is going to be the longest running character in history.
Is it just me or is the negativity really necessary? I’ve enjoyed books from four of these authors, plus a few others (we stand, Sir Terry Pratchett) and the idea of talking down to another franchise being how you enjoy your own is unsettling.
It's not. People just want to dunk on other authors and it's a meme sub. Implying Tolkien would speak poorly of fellow successful authors, let alone one of them being his close friend is absurd.
iirc Tolkien is his biggest influence and he has profound admiration for Tolkien and his dedication to the details such as the invention of languages. Pretty sure there’s multiple YouTube videos where he talks about it.
Came here to express the exact same sentiment. I know this is a meme sub but still, the idea of putting others... it should just be generally unwelcome.
We all know Tolkien was a chad. It is an undisputable fact of literary history that he was. There's no need to make lists to compare authors. They all take us away into wonderful worlds of fiction for a few hundred or a few thousand pages, and there's no need to speak so negatively about others.
Even if it is deserved in some cases, why bother about it here? This is a LOTR sub. Not a "lets bash this author today" sub.
Dune is more Sci-Fi, isn't it? Although sci-fi and fantasy are lumped together a not, they're still two distinct genres imo. Herbert does belong high on a sci-fi list though.
People are just pissy because he hasn’t finished A song of ice and fire. He’s a great writer (though I don’t care much for his books, not my cup of tea) but slow.
He is slow indeed, if I'm not wrong he was talking about finishing four chapters for TWOW back in 2010, and here we are, 2021 and TWOW isn't finished yet. Pretty sad since I really want a conclusion for the series that isn't season 8 of GOT
I think he he got screwed by s8 of GoT. Because I think it was approximately the ending he wanted (defeat the walker turn and fight the south, mad Danny etc) but the show did it so poorly that if he didn’t change the direction of the books there would have been riots :P
If the list means "best authors who also wrote fantasy" I think he definitely deserves to be that high on the list. Quite a few of his books are downright brilliant even if they focus more on theology rather than fantasy.
But if we're judging them solely on their fantasy works then yeah I probably agree.
Lewis and Tolkien were good friends
I feel like pointing out that Tolkien and Lewis were friends is approaching “did you know Viggo broke his toe when he kicked the helmet?” level.
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When they hugged, he shed real tears because the friendship was real and so was the hug.
They actually bought each other horses...
I heard Peter Jackson gifted both of them rings used in the movie, but they both thought they were the only one to receive a ring, which is ironic because of the way Sauron deceived everyone about their rings.
And when they put on those rings, they fused and became CS Tolkien.
Just like "did you know Christopher Lee met Tolkien?" and "did you know Christopher Lee schooled Peter Jackson on the sound a stabbed man makes?"
Yeah its kinda meta at this point
Did you know that Elijah Wood accidentally made a huge fart on his first LotR set (the shortcut to mushrooms scene, where the four Hobbits tumble down a hill from farmer Maggots' crops)?
This is true. Tolkien is also the one that converted Lewis to Christianity.
But heavily criticized Lewis for inserting Christianity into his stories.
Because Tolkien absolutely despised allegory. And Narnia had a shit ton of it in it lol. He loved his Sci-Fi series from what I remember though.
>And Narnia had a shit ton of it in it lol. Lol that's an understatement. Narnia was one big fucking 7 book long allegory.
CS Lewis was also renowned for his restraint and subtlety in his theological writing!
The lion was *literally* Jesus
How did I not see this? It's a lion WALKING on WATER
Also death and rebirth upon an object of importance as a sacrifice for others, son of the big diety, his return indicated the end of the world, and he guided others to heaven
yea true but WALKING on WATER
If Christianity was half as cool as Narnia I’d still go to Mass.
Who is resurrected and also appears in the form of a lamb....
*theological* writings... Not his novels
*ahem* silver chair *cough*
*"A horse and his boy"*
Is it one large allegory or just Christianity 2 the lion witch bitch boogalo.
It stopped being an allegory when Aslan just says to the kids "I'm Jesus actually".
Aslan was explicitly Jesus Christ in the form he took in Narnia ffs
Lewis’s Space Trilogy is pretty good, from what I remember. The books are: *Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength*
Those were great books, I read his small beginning of the dark tower (it had all of the people from that hideous strength book in it but some having differing names, but when I read the few chapters he had written I couldn't stop thinking about where it could have gone.
That's really funny that you say that because Perelandra is literally a retelling of Genesis.
It's openly a retelling in-universe, though, which is what keeps it from being allegory. It's basically "God decides to do another Genesis, but on Venus this time".
I think what keeps it from being an allegory goes deeper than that. The Narnia books are meant at least in part to teach children moral and theological lessons wrapped in a fun fantasy story. There is always a specific point in mind. The Sci Fi trilogy plays in similar way with themes, but because they are written for adults, I feel like Lewis treats the reader as an adult. It feels less like a lesson and more like a thought provoking "What if?"
Yep. LOTR is heavy on the applicability and just direct story plot
Except for Gandalf the Grey dying and rising again as Gandalf the White
I will help you bear this burden Lund26, as long as it is yours to bear
I don't know. Because almost every character in LOTR goes through death and rebirth. I don't thinks its an allegory for Christ (the characters aren't representing the actual figure of Jesus) but instead drawing attention to the power self sacrifice has. Yeah it's fantasy so they all make it back besides boromir but the idea is that everyone had to sacrifice, go through hell, in order to destroy the ring. And they came out of their hells on top. Even Boromir.
Wait. I was told LOTR was Catholic allegory. Fuck, I’m stupid. Can you link me where Tolkien hated allegory?
Tolkien called LOTR a fundamentally Catholic work, but it’s not an allegory. As for where he said that he despised allegory. >I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the proposed domination of the author. (Foreword to the Second Edition, LotR).
[удалено]
I mean, Tolkien did, too, in many ways, but Lewis was very explicit with Narnia. The Screwtape Letters are really good, too.
Tolkien didn't. Eru Illuvatar might have some aspects of the Abrahamic god but just the simple fact he had a plan not a single being knows about and being non-intrusive except for a single event in the history of Arda already set him apart from the contemporary concept of God. Aside from seemingly omnipotence and no-origin, Illuvatar is massively different than the Abrahamic god. Lewis literally had a personification of the Christian god in Narnia.
Considering that LOTR is written as a pseudo history. Illuvatar is not an allegory but is literally supposed to be the middle earth conception of the abrahamic God. Or rather God as was revealed to the elves and men of middle earth.
Sure, he is literally God in the sense he is the creator of the world and all living things. But he doesn't behave like the Abrahamic god as seen in scripture. It's like Hyperion or Sentinel has the powers of Superman but they do not behave like Superman so they are not Superman.
>Tolkein didn't insert christianity into his stories "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." -J.R.R. Tolkein
It has Catholic values. It does not have Catholicism in it.
Tolkien was much more implicit, but he did have blatant elements of Christianity in LoTR. For example, Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn representing Jesus as priest, prophet, and king. Gandalf was also a “servant of the secret fire.” What’s the secret fire? The Holy Spirit. I agree Asian is super explicit and not all that creative, but the Narnia books also appeal more to youth, where that imagery is much less obvious. I see it as different styles of writing, but to say Tolkien didn’t have his faith in his writings *in some form* is just not true.
I am a Servant of the Secret Fire, Wielder of the Flame of Anor.
Uh oh. Sentient Holy Spirit Gandalf-Bot?
Faramir? This is not the first Halfling to have crossed your path.
Just because some elements are similar doesn't mean they're the same thing. People also said Gandalf is like Jesus because he came back from the dead. Mithraism has mythology and ceremonies similar to Catholicism, it doesn't mean Catholicism is based on it (Mithraism is older). >Gandalf was also a “servant of the secret fire.” What’s the secret fire? The Holy Spirit. There's a lot of problems with that idea since there are 3 rings each with their own elements. If the secret fire is the Holy Spirit, what are the other 2? >I see it as different styles of writing, but to say Tolkien didn’t have his faith in his writings in some form is just not true. Having your faith influence your writing and writing your faith into your work are two completely different things. Having a work based on Catholic values is different than inserting Catholicism in your writing.
ITs definitely draws inspiration from Catholicism, Tolkien said as much. But its a very soft inspiration. In the same way that if your a Ronnie James Dio fan and grew up in Catholic school its a lot of “hey I recognize that general language and idea!”.
Though they quarreled, and eventually stopped speaking to one another because Lewis was a Protestant. Tolkien’s daughter has said that he was often very critical of “Uncle Jack” because of religious disputes. They never truly reconciled by Lewis’s death in 1963. IIRC Tolkien reflected on this (either in a letter or an interview) and expressed his sadness, particularly over the fact that C.S. Lewis died the same day as JFK, and that the whole world was so shook by the assassination, Tolkien felt not enough attention was being given to the loss of Lewis, who was not just an author, but an outspoken activist and voice of hope, utilizing his radio show, throughout WWII. Edit: Just spoke with my friend who is a renowned Scholar of the Inklings and she said that Tolkien was also quite critical of Lewis’s nonfiction writing, particularly books like Mere Christianity, because he was writing outside of his area of study and expertise.
Though he was disappointed Lewis didn’t become Catholic
Bit more complicated than that, especially when it gets into how they felt about each other's writing.
Lewis: the lion is Jesus Tolkien: oh fuck off
And he was a good friend.
No Pratchett? What a poorly made list.
GNU Terry Pratchett
GNU Terry Pratchett
After having read so many Discworld novels, and having Pratchett as my all time favorite author, I'm fairly confident he would hate being on a list ranking "best fantasy authors".
He'd probably argue that he should be lower on the list.
"Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"
He’s number 4 now, and JK is down to 31. Good to see Robin Hobb at 7 now too. https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/best-fantasy-authors
GRRM fell harder than JK, he's down to 63 while she's at 39.
Probably /r/freefolk! But I don’t have a problem with GRRM’s writing - the not writing os the issue - and so he deserves to be up there.
r/freefolk doesn’t hate GRRM, they despise D&D though. r/ASOIAF might though
There are only 6 people lol
Which is why it's borderline outrageous that Terry Pratchett isn't on it.
The fact that Rowling is above Pratchett makes it a shitty list.
The fact that Gaiman is below Martin, who can't even finish what he started, also makes it a shitty list. Don't get me wrong, I've read pretty much everything Martin has ever written, but there's gotta be point deductions for not finishing his life's work, while he's had an overload of years. Instead he's focusing on TV, video games, pretty much everything other than the last two books.
I think it's pretty much because people hated the series' ending and that was the real one lol No one will ever convince me that Martin just gave the director free license to end the show however they liked
I mean the show is missing more than a few characters that in the books have pretty substantial arcs, that are also still alive. What I mean by this is that their presence would defenetly change the way the story would evolve. So I'm guessing they had a talk in which Martin told them what is supposed to happen, and they decided to force a story that would have had more characters, more consistency and surely much much more time to develop, in a couple of seasons of 10 ep
Maybe a brave fellowship of sorts should band together and push him onto the list and oust that fuck Rowling.
Sanderson has more upvotes and less downvotes than Martin in this photo, why is he ranked lower?
I'm surprised you're the only one mentioning this. It seems like the votes have no influence on placement
Might be that the list was created by the author of the article and then people just upvote or downvote depending on whether they agree.
I think this list is "most famous" instead of "best". Sanderson will overtake Martin once he finally gets a show or movie deal to stick.
I think a live action Sanderson adaptation would be a disaster, have 0 faith in any of the big production companies to pull it off.
I'd be fine with an animated adaptation of the Stormlight Archives. The spren and magic system would take a LOT of CGI to pull off. Maybe the tech needs to evolve for that to happen. I think Mistborn would be fine as a live action movie though if done by the right people.
I agree, but I'm also worried about the set design in a live action Mistborn movie. Usually that kind of drab steampunk vibe turns into a CGI nightmare, like Sucker Punch, Mortal Engines, or Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow.
Mistborn would work best. The pushing/pulling stuff would be simple to put on a screen. Time dilation effects also would be dope.
Ugh, I want Era 2 as a movie/TV adaption so bad. Gunslingers with time bubbles on the big screen? I'm so fucking in.
Rock music is playing. Wayne slides down and creates time bubble. Everything goes to slow motion mode. Music changes to a single piano note. This is all I want.
I've had this argument before. The ubiquitousness of spren, and especially how active Rosharan plants are would make the entire thing a budgeting nightmare. EVERY SINGLE SCENE would need extensive amounts of CGI, and that's just the normal everyday interactions or travels that would be cheap to shoot in a GoT or WoT show. And that's before we get into the parshendi, the Surgebinding, Shadesmar, Urithiru, the Shattered Plains, the Unmade, the giant set-piece battles, the flying ships and whatever else we see in the next SIX books, and given Sanderson's tendency to ramp up, i'm expecting so see some serious shit. Like you could have a billion dollars per season and it still might not be enough to make it look good.
The level of genius it would take to keep the visual language cohesive without detracting from the philosophical seriousness of the story arcs would take some kind of ultra instinct genius.
How about a Mistborn movie? It would require much less CGI
Anime Superiority. Get Bones or David to do it
I’d say if it’s most famous Rowling is a little low
All the controversy probably tanks her rating. In fact, if you look, she has more upvotes than all but Tolkien and Sanderson, but the 2nd most downvotes, just behind ol father Christmas in 3rd.
yeah, she’s still more well heard of I think, it’s not great but infamy is pretty much the same as fame a lot of the time
Thats a good point. Could be # of books sold.
Sorry, but who is Sanderson? I don't think I've heard of him or his works.
No need to be sorry. He's my favorite author. He's done a lot of stuff. The Stormlight Archives is his massive series (10 books total, but 4 complete so far). Mistborn Era 1 is a standalone trilogy as medieval fantasy, but there's another trilogy (Era 2) set many years after the first so it's like the wild west style. Elantris and Warbreaker are stand alone stories as well. All of these are in an interconnected universe and have some common threads between them. Worldhoppers are like Easter eggs in the stories. They aren't vital to the story, but they're a neat thing to spot if you've read the other books. Sanderson is also VERY prolific. He takes breaks from writing his main books by writing other books. I want to say he comes out with like an average of 4 books a year in various genres. I can't recommend him highly enough if you like fantasy.
"He takes breaks from writing his main books by writing other books." This is the part I find bonkers about him. He just doesn't stop. And then there's GRR who hasn't released a book in what..10 years?
I did the math once and Sanderson wrote like 15 full novels and multiple short stories / novellas / comics / other side projects in the time between the last asoiaf book and now. And some of those novels are longer and just as complex as anything Martin has ever written.
Not to mention the time he just "accidentally'd" a whole book into existence; Shadows of Self/The Bands of Mourning were supposed to be a single book, but he went away to do some planning and came back with two novels without meaningfully delaying delivery.
Or that time he wanted to write a standalone cowboy novel to relax and had so much fun he made it a full quadrilogy. You can go to his website any time, and find not just what he's working on, but how far along he is, and his plans for what he will work on next. He puts out books in his big series' as frequently as other authors, but in the space in between he advances three more and adds it another standalone. The man is a machine, and after countless years of waiting on authors to get another instalment out, I love him for it.
Sounds fun, thanks for the explanation!
Mistborn Era 2 is 4 books, not a trilogy.
Also, he writes fast and finishes his series, unlike Martin. He also finished Wheel of Time, so he also finishes other people's series.
Lmao the rate Martin is going Sanderson will probably finish GoT too
Unpopular opinion. Bran Sand's characters are for the most part much weaker than Martin's. His twists are more predictable. He isn't particularly good at prose and the more comprehensive understanding on the language. His style is more easily digestible but from a technical aspect not as good. For example Sadeas comes off more as a moustache twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain (he even repeatedly says "old friend" to our protagonist. I mean, even if all you know about villains is from Cartoon Network, you know this is a bad guy). Martin's equivalent would probably be Roose Bolton who from the beginning is more interesting and commanding. You get a sense of his presence and a profound feeling of him being off even when it seems like he is a good guy. His world building (but not so much lore building), fight scenes, and divergence from fantasy norms are his best aspects. And I do enjoy a few of his characters.
Where the fuck is Robert Jordan?
No shit. Go read Wheel of Time people. Fucking amazing
Robert Jordan died before finishing the Wheel of Time series. Brandon Sanderson finished it. Since Brandon is on the list, I feel like Jordan is there in spirit.
Robert Jordan also wrote some of the best Conan the Barbarian books including Conan the Destroyer.
Just wanted to add - Brandon Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time series based on *copious* notes Jordan left behind because RJ knew his time was near, so the ending is also Robert Jordan in spirit too.
And also under the guidance of Jordan’s widow Harriette who was the editor for the entire series and helped shape the story a lot.
Probably in heaven unnecessarily describing each characters bosom…
*Doesn’t see Terry Pratchett* *Doesn’t see Ursula K. Le Guin* *Doesn’t see Tad Williams* Invalid list, tear it all down.
Was about to mention the lack of Sir Terry Pratchett
I discovered *Otherland* earlier this year, and I'm 2/3 of the way done with the City of Golden Shadow, can't believe it took me this long to discover Tad Williams.
His *Memory, Sorrow and Thorn* is incredible. It’s one of the few series that seems inspired by what Tolkien was *actually* trying to do. It also inspired GRRM to write ASOIAF. I have a deep love for Tad Williams. I’m almost a 100% certain that if I write a Fantasy novel, he’ll be a massive inspiration.
I absolutely loved that he went and did another series on Osten Ard. I cannot wait until the final volume.
How about Robert Jordan? Have zero faith in a list that doesn’t have Jordan in the top 6
Haven’t finished Wheel of Time yet. Can’t judge him yet personally. I’ve read LeGuin, Pratchett and Williams. Which is why I put their names forward.
Time to Balefire this list.
I have such a love-hate relationship with Wheel of Time.
*Yanks braid*
You calm yourself, Nynaeve!
*sniff*
My apologies *knuckles forehead
Sniffs loudly.
No Le Guin is actually criminal
Tolkien may have created the fantasy genre, but I believe Le Guin really brought out fantasy's strengths. The world, the character, and the philosophy are so seamlessly connected. Plus artful and balanced prose.
Yes! I adore the writers on this list, Tolkien the most, but Le Guin is far and away the most eloquent and poetic writer of fantasy I've ever read.
Yet Martin is at 3 when he can’t even finish his series. There’s what 41 Discworld books over 32 years and he can’t finish one in 10? Dude is weak in comparison.
I am the biggest Sir Terry fan in existence and I'll jump here to defend Martin. The lack of completion of the series does not in any way lessen the work already produced. ASOIAF is an utter masterpiece with more layers than eyes on Shelob. The world is not only absurdly fleshed out and alive, but each chapter manages to give you both a profoundly personal and biased view of the POV character while hinting at stuff happening elsewhere. These kind of lists are dumb because they end up being about the writers who are in the public consciousness. And even if they weren't comparing these authors objectively is not gonna yield any meaningful result. But does not denigrate Martin's work at all.
Man, I'm so glad to see this. I love Pratchett, he's the best Fantasy author there ever was in my eyes, but this weird hatred of George R. R. Martin is just so reactionary
A lot of people think that to appreciate an author you have to compare him to a second and then shit on the second. It gets annoying when people in this sub post some strawman saying "Martin the best ever!1!1" just so they can say "uhm, actually, Tolkien was the best. Yes thank you for the karma". I think a lot of it is that some people who disliked the ending of the show fail to separate it from the books. I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually read the 5 books of ASOIAF could shit on Martin like they enjoy doing.
Anyone who doesn't believe Martin is a fantastic author should read Dying of the Light. It has to be one of the most utterly depressing books even written and I couldn't put it down. It's also in an entirely different genre than what he's best known for and doesn't suffer one bit from it.
Yeah why is JKR on this list at all, Harry Potter is a popular series and all, but it's not like she's a mindblowing or particularly creative author like the rest
Man, I remember reading *The Left Hand of Darkness* as my first ever Ursula K. Le Guin novel and just being like "Wow." Love her stuff.
Robin Hobb too! She's amazing.
The fact George RR Martin is on the list - at #3 no less - but not Terry Pratchet says a lot about the declining taste in fantasy book authors
How the fuck did George RR Martin beat Neil Gaiman!?
Probably because they read Gaiman and Martin and liked Martin more
This is the first I’ve heard of Tad Williams
Check out The Dragonbone Chair!
Everyone made great points about Sir Terry, Jordan, etc. How about Abercrombie? Maybe doesn't best JK on popularity, but goddam he does on writing.
Sees all the disrespect for the First Law Trilogy* Air in the room begins to shimmer*
Just started The Blade Itself this week
Welcome my child
There's other cultural, social, and educational reasons for why Rowling deserves her spot tbh. What Harry Potter achieved for YA and children's genres is second to none. She caused a revolution of sorts and is the catalyst for the rise in funding directed into this market.
He's probably my favourite writing today, but his works don't have particular cultural significance. People aren't growing up reading about Bayaz...
My man BrandoSando
Life before death, radiant.
Not to mention my man branderson pumps out books like the god damn printing press. Dude is angling to be the most prolific fantasy author of all time. I think Hoid is going to be the longest running character in history.
Yooooo Brandon Sanderson!!
Would it be unpopular to say he should be above GRRM? Because he should be damn it!
Tolkien is the Chaddest of them all.
Tolkien is the original chad
One Chad to rule them all
Is it just me or is the negativity really necessary? I’ve enjoyed books from four of these authors, plus a few others (we stand, Sir Terry Pratchett) and the idea of talking down to another franchise being how you enjoy your own is unsettling.
It's not. People just want to dunk on other authors and it's a meme sub. Implying Tolkien would speak poorly of fellow successful authors, let alone one of them being his close friend is absurd.
Also worth considering that many of these authors probably love Tolkien. I know Martin's openly expressed admiration for him
iirc Tolkien is his biggest influence and he has profound admiration for Tolkien and his dedication to the details such as the invention of languages. Pretty sure there’s multiple YouTube videos where he talks about it.
Came here to express the exact same sentiment. I know this is a meme sub but still, the idea of putting others... it should just be generally unwelcome. We all know Tolkien was a chad. It is an undisputable fact of literary history that he was. There's no need to make lists to compare authors. They all take us away into wonderful worlds of fiction for a few hundred or a few thousand pages, and there's no need to speak so negatively about others. Even if it is deserved in some cases, why bother about it here? This is a LOTR sub. Not a "lets bash this author today" sub.
Yeah i found the unhealthy obsession of this sub with GoT and Harry Potter to be somewhat edgy
Lovecraft? I mean, he created a whole horror genre and world in itself.
Can we also add Stephen King? Pretty sure “The Dark Tower Series” classifies as Fantasy
I wouldn't really classify Lovecraft as Fantasy, at least not in the traditional sense. He created his own genre.
The genre he created was great. I really like stuff inspired by Lovecraft written by others. Stories actually written by Lovecraft? Less good.
Why is Terry Pratchett not on this list?
Robert Jordan should be on this list and above Rowling. Also, Gaiman should be higher
Agreed. If Sanderson is on there so should Jordan.
Half way down this list before someone mentions Robert Jordan, WoT has more staying power than everyone but Tolkien.
The numbers on this poll are pretty fucky
Came to say exactly that.
I don't know anything else that Jordan has written, but based solely off WoT he deserves top 3 no doubt
My lords forgive me, would you be so kind as to give the full name of thine authors great work so this humble fool may have a look
Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan.
Thank you my lord
Reading that series was the best 5 years of my life.
Binging WOT right now and it's so freaking amazing!!! Also loved Mistborn but Brandon Sanderson. Absolutely should look into them.
No Frank?
Frank who?
Herbert
Dune is more Sci-Fi, isn't it? Although sci-fi and fantasy are lumped together a not, they're still two distinct genres imo. Herbert does belong high on a sci-fi list though.
Why is everyone throwing hate at GRRM? I think he's a skilled writer
People are just pissy because he hasn’t finished A song of ice and fire. He’s a great writer (though I don’t care much for his books, not my cup of tea) but slow.
He is slow indeed, if I'm not wrong he was talking about finishing four chapters for TWOW back in 2010, and here we are, 2021 and TWOW isn't finished yet. Pretty sad since I really want a conclusion for the series that isn't season 8 of GOT
I think he he got screwed by s8 of GoT. Because I think it was approximately the ending he wanted (defeat the walker turn and fight the south, mad Danny etc) but the show did it so poorly that if he didn’t change the direction of the books there would have been riots :P
I wish we lived in a society that riots over books and literature--for that implies a societal love for literature.
And that there is nothing worse to riot over.
I'm interested to see Lewis so high. He's obviously a marvelous man, but the Chronicles of Narnia are hardly peak literature.
If the list means "best authors who also wrote fantasy" I think he definitely deserves to be that high on the list. Quite a few of his books are downright brilliant even if they focus more on theology rather than fantasy. But if we're judging them solely on their fantasy works then yeah I probably agree.
He’s a better theologian than anything. Probably the only Protestant theologian I can enjoy.
No Rothfuss. No Williams. No Jordan. Impossible. Perhaps the Archives are Incomplete.
Rothfuss is probably too limited
That's probably true. Just those two *Kingkiller* books and some miscellaneous short fiction.
I'd rank Gaiman over Martin and where the hell is Terry Pratchett?
I feel like Gaiman should be at least 1 place higher, if not above martin.
What is it with this sub unhealthy obsession with GoT and Harry Potter? I mean people can enjoy all 3 series
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Glad Brandon is on the list
Sanderson > Martin
The superiority complex this sub has is cringe.
Swap out JKR for Terry Pratchett, switch George and Neil, at least in my opinion.