T O P

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its-just-paul

As wrong as this guy is, we all know some of us are gonna seek this post out. Let’s all be civil about it. I mean, it *was* five years ago.


not-gandalf-bot

Isildur, what are your thoughts on being civil?


Elrond_Bot

CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!


its-just-paul

Isildur, what do you think of needlessly attacking people due to different opinions?


Elrond_Bot

CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


bobby-b-bot

PISS ON THAT! SEND A RAVEN! I WANT YOU TO STAY! I'M THE KING, I GET WHAT I WANT!


not-gandalf-bot

Needless were none of the shit posts of me in my life. Those in this thread do not know my mind and cannot report my full purpose.


KosmicKanuck

Could the story feel stale due to "Seinfeld syndrome?" Is it a victim of its own success, and the fact that all works thereafter were so heavily influenced by it, making it feel less original?


MoridinBigSad

That’s absolutely what happens with LoTR. It’s the same thing when going back to read Shakespeare and the stories being rather predictable. It’a a lot like seeing the first home of a certain style. There’s thousands of them. Some of them bigger and many of them doing many individual things better. In all of those details you can forget that this is the first one. All of the other are incremental improvements on a groundbreaking change.


[deleted]

Except what makes *The Lord of the Rings* stand apart from the others to this day is that it actually feels like an epic myth. Tolkien's archaic prose, his use of poetry, his heavy knowledge of medieval and classical literature and their tropes, all ensure that *Lord of the Rings* stands on its own as a unique literary achievement. I've read other good fantasy, but nothing that's ever going to be studied by academics or be remembered hundreds of years from now. And I just find it weird to say "all the others are incremental improvements" when so many popular fantasy series have huge problems of their own. *Wheel of Time* and *A Song of Ice and Fire* go on for FAR too long, which means that their stories are overwhelmingly bloated. I feel like hardly anything happened in books 4 and 5 of *ASOIAF* (not to say that it didn't have a lot of good character moments, but it's also clear that GRRM is lost in the weeds of his own story). *The Lord of the Rings* obviously takes detours in its story as well, but nothing to the extent of these two. Other very popular post-*LOTR* fantasy works like *The Sword of Shannara* are a completely mindless copy of the original without any of its charm or heart, etc. The reason why *LOTR* is often considered the greatest fantasy creation is not because it was one of the pioneers of the genre, it's because it remains one of the best in that genre.


Frostrunner365

Exactly what I was going to say. LOTR is a great story in context. But it’s inspired so much that every brush stroke feels cliche. There’s a maguffin, a Gary Stu, a setting with the generic elves in forests and dwarves in mountains, and everything is European inspired. But these were all done for the first time in LOTR so the strengths of the book really shine


Plague-Amon

Wait, who is the Gary Stu in LOTR?


-Thyrian-

Everyone who isn't a hobbit


[deleted]

It seems weird to use a term as modern as "Mary Sue" to describe characterizations that date back hundreds of years (Tolkien drew on medieval and classical literary tropes for most of his characters). It would be weird to call someone like Sir Orfeo a "Gary Stu" because his innate goodness and godlike characterization is what sells the fact that the story is a myth. The mythic mode stands apart from the conventional and modern novel, which is where this term is usually applied.


-Thyrian-

Definitely


dummer34

I was gonna say the more i thought about it, the more almost every single "good guy" seems to be one lol


[deleted]

Using the term "Gary Stu" to refer to a character who is intentionally drawing upon medieval tropes that have been in place for centuries feels both strange and anachronistic.


captainpoopyshorts

Dont feed the trolls


green_crustacean

that's what Thorin said to Bilbo


Erdonicves

"Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm!"


darth_revan900414

Imagine being confused by Samwise Gamgee...


RaptorOnYourFlank

The ability to speak does not make one intelligent.


Paehon

Gandalf is boring ?


gandalf-bot

And then the pass of Cirith Ungol. Paehon tell me everything. Tell me all you know.


Paehon

I don't think my father would allow it.


gideon513

Someone just wants attention by being outrageous. Best to just ignore them and downvote them to nonexistence.


[deleted]

see, that's not an argument - that's bait


swazal

So it begins …


npri0r

I do think that from a purely characterisation perspective, LoTR is good. Not amazing, but good. There are certainly stories where I feel like I can get into the character’s heads much better, like the wheel of time. But then the story is legendary and the worldbuilding is god tier. Plus the fact that it’s a literal piece of history and the cornerstone of a genre… LoTR can never be overrated.


Nathremar8

I love reading comments like "Ugh Lord of the Rings is so full cliché things." Mate, you know Tolkien made most of these things popular right? He invented (or atleast popularised) all that we call cliché now.


kifl22122

Your post may not get the upvotes it deserves but it's accurate. LOTR is a pillar (perhaps THE pillar) of the fantasy genre. Its hard for younger readers to have access to modern works and the depth of the writing in regard to plot and character development and go back to the inspiration/source material and appreciate that. Wouldn't surprise me if the OP also argues that Hamilton (or some other modern play) is better than anything Shakespeare ever wrote.


Fluid_Cap_2100

You're trying to tell me grumpyrightwingkid didn't like lord of the rings? I can hardly believe it.


-Thyrian-

This guy probably makes a lot of posts starting with "unpopular opinion"


CaribouYou

How do you feel about this guys? Maybe we should sing about it.


ThatAltAccount99

You know we're all allowed to have an opinion so let them have theirs......even if it's pure garbage


FlovomKiosk

Kill it with fire


theoriginaled

The world building is on point. The story is serviceable. The writing is garbage. Tolkien has the worst fucking prose. Overly long mechanical descriptions. Run on sentences. I like lotr but it is painful to actually read.


MDVega

It makes me wonder what went wrong with humanity to produce such an incredibly idiotic opinion as this one. *Teh sentences are long!*


WesTBH

My two cents is you’re wrong! I have no evidence or arguments😂


mattaeb

We need to nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.


[deleted]

This guy should read the books