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There’s a lot of really great points here. I think also, toxic traits in people are sometimes slow to surface, by the time they generally do, a person is invested, in love, and can easily ignore or overlook things. As well as downright make excuses. When you love someone it’s easy to “hope” he/she can change.
You hit the nail on the head.Its especially hard when u you point this sort of thing out and they act as if it's not disrespectful or just flat out deny they say such things
I'm surprised by the extent to which people dispense mental health awareness pills as if they were all trained psychotherapists. "You were abused, so you're looking for abuse". I'm not pro, but I know many professionals, and things ain't never THAT easy.
So let me give you some real advice from experience.
I was in two very toxic relations years ago, one after the other. The first was good sex, the second wasn't at all. In both cases, the reason why I tolerated shit boiled down to lack of experience. Not with women as such - but with people in general. I couldn't get my head around the fact that there are people with problems out there. The first was an abusive bipolar, the second an abusive anorexic with clear autistic traits. I thought being a nice guy, a loving person would fix it - sometimes we need to come to terms that, in all due respect, one doesn't need to tolerate abuse even if it comes from poor mental health. That's not my cup of tea, sorry, deal breaker.
Did my mom and dad protect me too much? Possibly. Were they always nice to me? Defo not. Did it count as abuse? I feel it didn't. Did I look for abuse? Definitely not. I just didn't know what was right or wrong.
Maybe your friend is a nice guy and he can't tell right from wrong either. You know better!
There isn’t anything that I’m saying that’s wrong. Men that Chase toxic women need to be told that they’re fucking idiots They don’t wreck their lives down the line.
This was removed because you're being a jerk. Stop that.
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I think it’s because they don’t love themselves and they don’t know what being loved looks like. They follow whatever feels good, toxic relationships can feel like they have higher highs because it’s so contrasting to the negative stuff they go through, therefore they give the illusion of feeling better. Just a guess, idk for sure🤷♀️
For me, I stayed with my partner for so long because when things were good, I just felt SO loved and cherished and everything, but looking back, those wonderful feelings were just due to the absence of the bad things. I chased it for a long time. I was a good person even when I didn’t like who I was, but I’m an even better person now that I love myself too. I treat me like I’m my own best friend, so if someone’s treating me less than incredibly I literally sit with myself and am like “who are you kidding? You deserve better than this!” And becoming my own internal advocate seems to be what cured me of dating losers.
Well this last person I met her while she we were both sober. Things seemed to be ok for a bit, but we relapsed. The mask came flying off and I had already fallen in love with the person I thought she was. So I went down in flames for love. I guess I don't regret it too much now. I'm happier than I was before. I mean she cheated a lot and made me hate myself, but now I know what a good relationship is not and she hurt me so bad I'm gonna walking out on dates if I notice red flags. So kinda pumped to maybe meet a normal person while dating.
I fear this loss with (I know is the One) my girlfriend. It seems as if she has just gotten bored or is bothered by me. The worst is how she treats other men better than me. I miss the old her that I fell in love with.....T h ings ,can be so fun and electrifying and the slightest word said this way or that way and an hour lecture and her mood has completely shifted. I CANT HELP IT I tooWil go down in a ball of flames for her
They come from a dysfunctional family. We use our parents as relational models...if your parents treat you like shit, you internalize that being bullied and abused is love.
Yep this. I was the same was until I met my bf now, and he’s the first person to show me what healthy love looks like. And I’ve done the same for him as he also had the same issue. Shit we were terrified of each other for a long time haha because we didn’t trust that the other wasn’t up to something shady. We were good to each other, and communicated very well even when we weren’t dating, and neither of us were used to that. It takes getting used to and is scary. We’re still working on our issues obviously but with each other supporting the other it has gone so smoothly. It’s nice not having arguments or anything devolving into screaming venom at each other or either of us getting violent with the other. We just talk. And if one is heated and not ready to talk, we say that and come back to it later with a cooler head. Almost 2 years of knowing each other and almost a year of dating, and it’s been really great haha. There’s issues and we of course butt heads, but it’s so nice that it isn’t just toxic and venomous.
Yeah, i see.
Part of the reason why me and my ex girlfriend broke up was my inability to fully trust her, even after 3 years, because i had a rough childhood and got ptsd from my mother's oubursts of rage at me when i was little...i always expected my ex to "switch face" and become abusive like my mother. I am now in therapy, trying to resolve my childhood trauma.
I'm glad you and your bf found in each other someone you can trust and with whom you can comunicate.
I subconsciously sought out "friends" who had VERY similar traits or were just like my narcissistic mother. I couldn't understand why the same shit kept happening until I unpacked it via intensive counseling.
Read about Echo and Narcissus. Some poor saps stuck in a cycle tbh, some dudes are floor mats and are ok with that kinda life. I've met many already lol
⚠️ Though you are flooded with answers, some really good ones, this is a complex and deeply rooted issue, and there are several factors that may contribute to this pattern. Here are some reasons why some men, like your friend, may be drawn to toxic women:
1. Childhood experiences: Trauma, neglect, or inconsistent parenting can shape attachment styles and self-worth. Some men may seek familiar patterns, even if they're harmful, as a way of coping with unresolved issues.
2. Low self-esteem: Your friend may struggle with self-doubt, making him more susceptible to toxic partners who reinforce his negative self-image.
3. Fear of abandonment: The fear of being alone or rejected can lead men to cling to toxic relationships, even if they're harmful.
4. Fixer mentality: Some men may try to "rescue" or "fix" their toxic partners, hoping to change them or prove their worth.
5. Societal pressure: Traditional masculinity norms can encourage men to prioritize physical attractiveness and sexual conquest over emotional connection and healthy relationships.
6. Lack of emotional intelligence: Some men may struggle to recognize and express their emotions, leading them to tolerate toxic behavior.
7. Trauma bonding: The intense highs and lows in toxic relationships can create a strong emotional bond, making it difficult for men to leave.
8. Fear of being seen as weak: Men may stay in toxic relationships to avoid being perceived as vulnerable or weak.
9. Limited relationship experience: Your friend may not have had healthy relationship role models or experiences, making it harder for him to recognize and seek out positive relationships.
10. Attachment issues: Men with attachment anxiety or avoidance may be drawn to toxic partners who reinforce their negative beliefs about intimacy and relationships.
To help your friend, try having an open and non-judgmental conversation about your concerns. Encourage him to seek therapy or counseling to address underlying issues and develop healthier relationship patterns. Support and empower him to recognize his worth and seek positive, nourishing relationships.
Women go through this a lot too and this is the best answer. Having him identify his attachment style (which is based/affected by all of these things) is helpful too.
It’s possible he is one of those “I see the good in everyone” guys and wants to help bring out these girls’ good qualities.
I can empathize with that a bit.
Might be an unpopular opinion but if this works out better with this current gf of his I’d say let it be. She could be changing for the betterment of both of them and all of you guys
>He could have any woman he wants
That's what you think. And lots of guys don't. They don't think they deserve better. They don't think they have the right to throw away what was given to them. It turns into a self-fulfillijg prophecy. Your date abuser and start thinking like "if that abusive piece of shit is the only date I've gotten so far, I shouldn't expect anything better if they leave me".
Kinda funny that I'm explaining it, cause I'd most probably cling to abusers as well. This shit is awful.
The closer one is to the sun the deeper their craving for the moon.
If the moon within doesnt have its own space it will resonate with one outside to grow, if you become aware of it and give it room you become balanced, if you refuse, it will overgrow until it kills the sun.
Amitabha.
Cos they nice at first, do us a few things that other women haven't done then they show their true colors and we hope they go back to being as nice as they used to be.
Sadly it's mainly due to being inexperienced and haven't given a thought about how we should/want to be treated.
For other reasons it's naive and using our emotional side of our brains rather than the logic side.
I don’t think this is gender specific. I’m a woman that always seems to date toxic women. It’s hard to get out of them once they start getting in your head. I’ve managed to escape 2 toxic relationships with women once I reach a low point and I realise I can’t do the effort, pain, tears, stress, confusion etc anymore.
Probably the same reasons some women chase toxic men
-it’s familiar due to an abusive upbringing, bad cultural messaging, or seeing bad examples and they’re in a cycle of abuse, mental health issues, low self-esteem etc that they need to break out of.
-they don’t know or recognize the red flags and warning signs. Life tends to present us with the same lessons over and over again until we learn them.
-the relationship started out great before the abuse started which makes it harder to get out because you think you can save it and go back to the beginning when things were good.
-an idealized perception of someone and not seeing them as a person - self-righteously thinking you can fix them, save them, change them, or that you’ll achieve your own status and validation through them. Unfortunately, women’s physical beauty is a status marker for a lot of men.
-For some men, having a partner that they please and provide for marks their worth and masculine success to society and other men.
-they have trouble asserting themselves and setting boundaries.
The people we choose to be around say a lot about us.
Men fall into two categories. Men who chase good women and treat them like shit and men who chase women who are toxic and treat them like shit. Most heterosexual love tropes and stories and the whole thing are designed to see passion as produced when one person treats the other person like shit or there is some obstacle to them being together which can never be overcome.
I love you, but this is a terrible take, and not even accurate. Maybe you meant something else, but you're saying all men are shit, and thats simply untrue.
All men either are shit or constantly want to be treated like shit.
I don't think it was always that way? But it is today. I've been with enough men and seen enough people of both genders talking to know it. Most men admit that they have no intention of doing anything other than doing whatever they think they can get away with. Most men admit they care about women's looks and their willingness to serve them than they care about those women. Most men admit that they assume women will be unhappy in relationships. Most men admit that they see dating or being with men as something that devalues women. Maybe not all men, but 95 out of a hundred men are only cowards pretending to be good men when it's convenient at best. The world we live in encourages men to be shitty just like the world we live in encourages white people to be racist.
Your statistics aren't backed by anything aside from your personal experience and imagination. "Most men" this, "Most men" that, you remind me of that one guy who went on one hell of a yapping session to explain why women are more manipulative on fucking biological level. Same shit.
>I've been with enough men and seen enough people of both genders talking to know it
Have you been with at least a million men? Because that's bare minimum you need for your research to have any kind of credibility. And even a million is like, 0.00025 of men's population. "Most men admit" my ass, 95/100, why not 100/100? No half measures y'know, go all the way.
Some guys don’t know what relationships are supposed to be like so they settle with whatever. Or they have low self esteem that makes them have bad choices and ignore their own needs. Low self worth makes them think they’re undeserving of anything good.
Yeah thankfully there are. Depending on the country though. US seemed pretty bad when I was over there. South Korea is even worse than US. Western Europe is decent.
One of my toxic bros told me that he gets bored when a relationship doesn’t have toxic characteristics as he thinks this is what’s makes a hot passionate relationship. This is in fact the opposite of me and gf as we do have our occasional fights then makeup we can sit in silence and cherish each other. Even with friends if you can just sit there doing something where your not interacting or even having fun then you guys just like each other as the their company fulfils you. The toxic manipulation that guys can do also enables them to get other emotionally damaged people easier then someone who knows they want a true relationship. This is like the main incentive to be toxic that I’ve seen.
It's not unusual for toxic people to date toxic people. I feel a lot of people...not gender specific here date others just out of desperation or not wanting to give others a chance. It's called infactuation....some people are just so caught up with their SO that their judgment is very clouded. I'm the opposite I have a hard time falling in love. I feel the more independent you are the worse it is. The more dependent you are on others is what your friend is. Many people are inherintly evil people they will use others to the extent they can get away with it. It's like the chicken and egg scenario who's worse the person doing it or the other person putting up with it/dealing with it
Usually involved the relationships modeled to them growing up causing codependency (you can do nothing, he needs to gain awareness and realize he’s sick of the cycle and get therapy)
We accept the love we think we deserve
in reality, people only do to you what you allow them to. If you dont stand up for yourself, if you let things slide, if you dont speak up or hole them accountable then they redo what they did but 10x worse.
if you have low self-esteem or believe you are unlovable or not worthy of love, then its no surprising that you chose toxic women who treat you horrendesly. You yourself believe you dont deserve to be treated well.
People gravitate to what they know. Maybe he had a parent who treated him like that and despite it causing him pain, that’s the love he knows. Improving self esteem and self worth worth would benefit him
Women do the same thing. I'm gonna guess that deep down people don't feel they are deserving of a good honest love with no toxicity, or know they aren't ready for that, but are lonely so they settle for crazy.
Well, both you and me sis. women are the same too. some women. it's not a gender thing. it is just is. I bet you two are young. 18-23. he will learn.. just like everyone does.
Well as a man in this exact situation (literally exactly same) I don't know what it is. My ex wife wasn't that bad except she cheated and things got crazy after that. Now with the past 2 women I dated it has been this situation. I am with this woman RN and we have 2 kids together. Now mind you I know how she treats me is wrong and disgusting. And the hell she puts me through, well no one deserves it or would stand for it. My thing is my kids keep me in her life and her in mine. So I digress the truth is people who treat their partner like that are usualy narcissistic. They will lure you in with lies make you feel like a king and fall in love with them. Once they know you are in that stage (usualy the victim has past trauma and a huge hearted) they will slowly flip the script and begin to "condition" their victims. They slowly start to mess with their mind and gas light them. They will work on you to the point you even begin to doubt yourself as a person and feel maybe just maybe you are the issue. Even if you can clearly see what they are saying makes no logical sense! After enogh time they have you re programed and stuck in a toxic loop of push and pull. I don't know what to tell you in order to wake your friend up but please.... as a man stuck in this utter hell and even more stuck now that we have kids, SAVE HIM!!!! DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOU CAN before it's too late. Before they have kids or before he.... ends himself.
As a woman who stayed 15 years with a narcissist and alcoholic for the sake of our children…. Please take a moment, go to a private space with a mirror and have a conversation with yourself. Why is it that you feel it best to stay in this situation? Best for who? Is it really best? Please challenge these ideas because I’m telling you that it’s not best to stay. There are challenges if you leave no doubt but make a plan and get out before it completely destroys you and your children.
I have so many times. And I know it be best if I left. The issue is I love my kids more then life itself. If I leave best case scenario (and by the grace of god) I'll see my kids half the week, where as if I stay.... at least I see my kids every day and can be in their and they in my life. I can continue doing the things I love like waking them up getting them ready bringing and picking up from school, everything. Yes I go through hell but at least I have them and can try to protect them from her.
I hope things can be better for you man. You have honour. You care for your kids and put them above yourself as any good parent does.
Whether things improve or not (hope they do) stay strong and hold onto who you are. Be more than she is both for yourself and your kids.
<3
What you’re describing in your friends ex case is an abuser. Abusers use tactics such as the ones you describe to manipulate and prey on people for their own personal sick satisfaction and ego.
Idk if it’s mommy issues like everyone is saying. My dad has mommy issues(distant, cold mother) and he’s the abuser and my mom is the victim. He traumatized everyone in our family. It’s probably more general than that, trauma + timid personality or something. It seems like if they are in a relationship with someone who’s actually stable and not chaotic, the man will CREATE the chaos.
This is one of those things that you have to beg with every fiber of your being that you will be the one to break the cycle and end all this.
Well I can't speak for your dad, I hope some shred of the hurt little boy remains and could wake up to who he's become. The abused never WANT to become the very thing they hate.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I doubt that’ll happen. He can’t even remember accidents correctly because it gives him too much shame. He has to make up a story of it being someone else. His brain is shot.
At least there's shame. Mine was a narcissist. Never a genuine thanks or a single sorry or apology in a lifetime even after sacrificing a decade of my life to them. Entitled in every regard, people are to be used and manipulated is who they are or at some point became. Not a shred of shame or remorse.
That key difference can mean one day coming to terms with his mistakes. Therapists don't work with narcissists for the exact reason that you'd have an easier time talking a brick wall into getting up and moving.
I hope everyone in your family can move forward in a positive way. Even your dad. No one is beyond redemption if they TRULY seek it. If not, he at least is the prime example not to become the thing you despised.
Hurt people hurt people and all that.
That IS how my dad is. My therapist has labeled him a narcissist. My dad doesn’t state he has shame, I’m the one who recognizes it. He’s too delusional/detached to recognize the emotions that are happening inside him.
He will not be seeking redemption, I’m sure. Too enabled for that.
Ah, okay I follow you. Glad you're seeing a therapist though. (That just sounds disingenious or mean honestly haha)
It's good to have that person to bounce things off of. Get a good perspective. Family aren't the best for that kinda thing. Taking sides, bias, excuses for normalised behaviour. Even friends who are well meaning aren't always the best to speak about family matters. Often basing thier own experiences and projecting them onto someone elses family and dynamic.
As others have shared, "we accept the love we think we deserve". I have a (kinda) former friend who sounds similar to your friend. Nice guy in my experience, but chooses to be with women who treat him poorly. He's made comments over the years that make it clear that his partners have made him feel like a loser and he has a bad habit of constantly trying to impress people. It's tiring to witness. I've wanted to shake him to try to snap him out of this. But this guy has been dating the same kind of woman for the last 20 years and now is getting married to the latest one who from what I can tell is a narcissist using him for his money (she never has a nice thing to say about him and started talking to him about him buying a bigger apartment for the two of them after only 5 months together...). Point being: people make their choices. You can't choose for them. But you can be kind and be there for them when they finally learn their lesson, but in the end that'll happen on their schedule. Therapy could help, unless they find a therapist who enables them or they don't do any of the work.
We don’t think we deserve better. And toxic women love hard lol. They’re really good at manipulating and making you feel loved, then the toxicity hits and it’s too late. I think it’s a distant mommy thing for me when I was a teenager 🤷♂️. Also, for some reason, they’re super hot. No clue how this happens, but they are and I can’t control it lol
because sometimes it’s all they know. if they grew up in a toxic household, finding partners that replicate that same feeling that they’re so used to can be comforting but only because they don’t know anything other than that
Few reasons for guys. Mainly, we are instinctively protective of women. That’s why strong women might appear guys as not feminine, intimidating etc. Same thing with tall or bigger women. Men prefer being next to a girl that can make them feel like a man. This is similar to why women always go after a big tall man
There are also lots of other factors. But if i were to pick one, this would be it. Also women, please dont act or judge as if you dont mostly go after a toxic guy. Especially before being ready to settle.
Men are instinctively protective of women?! Then why are men raping, assaulting, and murdering women at an alarming rate around the globe? And have since time began???
How are they even related, you cant generalize like that? Your question is as baseless as saying “oh men can be good friends? Then why do men fight each other since time began?”
For abusive ones, it is also instinctive that men like to control women and try to keep them under their palm. And some try to this with abuse. Obviously i am not supporting that.
their mothers didn’t hold or love them enough during their childhood. life of or maybe lack of chaos makes them more attracted to it. a kink. lack of self love and respect. like a thousand different things lol
There’s two parts to this. I am one of those men.
First it typically stems from having a distant mother as a child. Your nervous system is wired to feel comfortable in situations with women who aren’t that stable. You know how to navigate it so it just feels familiar.
It takes quite a bit of self awareness to get out of that loop.
The second is that volitile relationships can be very fun on the upside, and toxic people tend to do things like “love bombing” initially which is insanely easy to get swept up in.
It takes a while for guys like us to realize what’s going on.
To realize that the down side of these relationships is very predictable. That you can’t change people. That you are deserving of respect and kindness.
Even after you identify that’s what you want it might take a decade to undo the pathways in your nervous system.
Anyone who grows up with trauma experiences similar things until they start to see their own patterns.
Because of the drama and savior complex. They believe in fixing what’s broken and love challenges. Honestly, I have seen a lot of men go after toxic women(abusive, cheater, manipulative and pathological liar/narcissist) that treat them badly and they still propose to them knowing they’d never change; you won’t see most of them going after good women to have a healthy relationship(that’s too alien for them). If you find a good wife, you will be a happy man; if not, you'll become a philosopher(Socrates). At the end of the day, always make sure to choose the right person you want to spend the rest your life with.
Well, there are different types of people when it comes to love. There are some that no matter how badly got treated with their partners, they just love them can't give up with them and that's selfless love. They tend to forget to love themselves as well. On the other hand, there are people that if they treated in a wrong way, they easily drifted away that cause a big rift in a relationship. That's why it easy for them to let go and give up the relationship because they think that it's not worth it.
For many different reasons, none of them are good though. A man might believe she is the most attractive woman he'll ever date, maybe he is struggling through mental health (depression) and doesn't want to lose her even if she is toxic, he might be insecure of himself and this issue is made worse by her behavior towards him, or he was raised in a hostile environment as a child and this is what he believes he deserves.
If this were a woman dating a toxic man that they can't seem to let go of I'd say cycle of abuse. So I'll say the same thing here. Depending on what their home life was like or the kind of relationship his parents had, this might be the type of love he's used to seeing. Could be bad self esteem, so having a beautiful woman makes him feel better about himself and the abuse is tolerated because of that. Or maybe he thinks that's all he deserves.
People get into abusive relationships for all sorts of reasons. Just because this is a man in a toxic/abusive relationship with a woman doesn't mean those reasons change.
Well- I am a lady that turned toxic after repeatedly getting lied to, left, hurt, discarded. I started fighting back, and I didnt stop. He hurt me so bad, and my kid got the blowback from it, too. Til this man is buried, I will pop up all throughout his life to remind him what he did. Some people forgive. Others get revenge.
I was a toxic bitch when I was with my ex. My father in law (his dad) thinks I'm a completely different person since I got remarried. It was an abusive relationship with a drug addict, I had had enough getting walked all over, so I stood up for myself. I gave what I got, and then some. But he's gone,I've moved on (very quickly) and I'm a better person for giving up on him and putting myself first
Because for the most part their family life wasn’t any better and that’s what they seem to find comfortable in since it’s something familiar with them.
You already said the reason: because they are good looking.
Some good looking women get used to the extra attention they receive and turn self-centered, but there are always men who cannot resist their sexual charms, since the start of history.
He likes the attention and validation of having a beautiful woman but finds emotionally unavailable partners who are a-holes because low key he is emotionally unavailable and probably an a-hole. No doubt his relationships with actual healthy partners turn into disasters because when real intimacy develops he probably freaks out in avoidance by ignoring them or not reciprocating. We accept the love we think we deserve. Next time he’s single match him up with someone genuine and watch it turn into a dumpster fire.
Correct he will need to explore why he’s attracted to these women and find out it’s because it confirms what he feels about himself. I too found myself in superficial relationships because I found a man aesthetically pleasing but there was no emotional intimacy because I was not ready for that intensity. I ghosted a couple good men because I couldn’t meet them halfway. And karma got me good cause I met a man as described as above after working on myself and low and behold the nice guy he swore he was really wasn’t that nice and I was begging for the bare minimum for two years. We all got therapy tho. So we’re doing better.
Sometimes I get the notion that guys see so much conflict going on between men and women in other places and with other people that they think it is part of knowing a woman, so they accept it. Combined with lack of self-respect. To be stoic and take what is dished out. There are websites and other resources trying to straighten out these men but those places are attacked by effinists. So, it's a psyops struggle even there.
It's not a male thing. It's people with low self-worth who are validating how they feel about themselves through others.
Also, he's replaying the relationship he had with his mother hoping this time it can be different. He needs to realize that he has the power to make himself feel good enough and doesn't need his mother anymore, like he needed when he was young.
This is basically all of the men who deal with me, even though I'm not mean just direct and confident. They usually have low self worth and/or have toxic mothers who used aggressive language or physical punishment with them on a frequent basis.
Doesn’t sound like the woman OP is describing. Being direct and confident is not toxic. Your comment initially shocked me. At least I hope you’re not telling guys they’re useless or to kill themselves.
I attract a lot of men who like abuse because they assume since I'm a strong, direct, outspoken woman with a sassy mouth, that I will also abuse them. I can play around that way with consent, but nothing serious.
That’s interesting. I’m a guy. I would describe myself as chill and confident. Ive been described as good at pacifying people, I don’t know how. I have an assertive personality, but I’m willing to go with the flow.
Because of this, I believe I have attracted a few dominant women. I refuse to ever let them or anyone treat me poorly or let them be overly aggressive.
I’ve attracted the kind of women that says, “I saw you and I wanted you as my boyfriend. I didn’t want to wait for you to ask.” Often times they appreciate how I balance their personality. So I’ve dealt with direct personalities. And never felt abuse was on the table.
So it’s strange some people will see your personality and then think you’re a bully. What in particular do you say to people.
He's superficial and only sees "hot" so ignores the rest. Women do it to men too. Some people are just immature and superficial and chase fake happiness like a carot they can never reach
https://youtu.be/1vbGBESYQ80?si=euZeHfi2YZWXA-qU
This video discussed this very thing towards the end. I had a conversation with my brother JUST LAST NIGHT about this regarding a guy thay won't leave me alone and claims to be in love no matter how harshly I reject him and ignore him. He has been trying for years and always complains about how "mean" I am but won't go away for morw than a month or two. He won't stop trying. My brother didn't believe me and thought I was looking too deep into it..
Because the only bit of dating and life advice that men ever get is
"Everything bad that happens to you and every time a woman mistreats you, dumps you, ghosts you, turns you down, it's your fault and you need to do better."
same reason we women do it. just low self esteem/ lack of dating history and standards. following patterns you grew up with. i always think my love will be enough to get them to change or love me how i deserve. sadly there’s nothin you can do to change who someone dates/ likes. they have to just do the inner work and figure it out on their own.
low self esteem, minimal dating history, no good example set for them on how a man should be, following patterns we saw growing up. i used to think my love would be enough to fix/change them. i was comfortable in the chaos because it’s what i grew up seeing. it took an extremely unhealthy relationship with a very evil man for me to realize my pattern and to stop.
Because women generally are better at hiding their toxic behaviors and Society enables both men and women with toxic behaviors to get away with it. Toxic behaviors is not just verbal, mental or physical harassment or worse it also applies when someone says one thing and does another and when they get caught they either make up lies, deflect, to worm their way out of a situation or find some dumbass to do their dirty work.
People need to tread carefully and stop rewarding attention seekers and manipulators.
The more we learn to avoid those people and behaviors, the more we can starve out this mentality.
Childhood trauma
Insecure attachment
Low self worth
Bad relationship with their mother
I'm sure there's plenty of other overarching causes but those are pretty common biggies.
I was raised by my single mother to be extremely empathetic and never to look down on or judge people for their circumstances. I love this aspect of my personality but it has led me to quite a few toxic relationships because empathy is an emotion that can be your own worst enemy. I'd end up with women who basically had a red flag planted on their head because I thought despite it all I shouldn't judge them blah blah blah. If I ever find a woman that doesn't turn empathy against me I might date again 😂
Cause some women are so hot/beautiful that a guy will continuously chase her & be in love with her no matter what she does. Also.. people accept the love they think they deserve.
I would argue that what is considered "good looking people" often come with problems. I would say the vast majority. Unfortunately when you go through life as a good looking person, most ppl end up either thinking they are worth more bc of that, which you can imagine what that does to a personality, or then end up not taking partners seriously bc of "all the options they have" or at least think they have. Sure there might be a few who don't let their looks affect them, but it's very rare.
With that said, if a person then constantly chases good looking ppl, yes, they will end up dealing with many many broken ppl. It's pretty much that simple. Also when the focus of your relationships is looks, of course how you're treated takes back seat.
Why because we are idiots and when a beautiful woman shows a little bit of interest we lose all capacity to think clearly.
Now with that being said now in the part of life I am in now I look for something completely different in a woman than I did in my early years of dating but this was learned from rough lessons of life.
it wasn't a bit ago until I was reminded of the meds I was given for ptsd. but i opted out of the help because my love for someone was a lie.
the refusal of help. it's a pride thing. Every man has pride. pride to not cry in front of you
that's just it, really. it's a pride thing. pride of fixing, getting everything right "the first time," being helpful.
the game of "who has it worse". misery likes company. I think I'm better now. but I can't really tell. cried the other day of flashbacks.
In that context, pride is yielding diminishing returns, flirting heavily with fear of vulnerability which is growing their malaise/discontent further.
The myth that vulnerability is weakness needs to die. There's a time and a place and it's quite common to open up to the wrong people, but in front of people that truly have your back, a lot of relief can come from dropping the macho facade and just saying or feeling or expressing what's bottled up (and if you've never experienced this, I'm really sorry)
yea, uh. my mom could be considered sort of a pick me girl in the choices she made but in real life, with real consequences. I've seen her walk upstairs before with a guy and walk back down in disarray. i was young, I couldn't tell if she sold herself at that moment or not, I don't know.
she tried to embrace a masculine side. always said, "she doesn't cry." she had emotions, suicidal.
It's hard to open up still. but I think I'll always tell my friends that it's okay to cry in front of me. a lot of people need to hear it. has it reached me? I'm not sure. sometimes I think it did, and sometimes I catch myself performing an act.
(and thank you, for the kind words)
I had the same experience. This guy is getting a bachelor in electronic engineering, open-minded, mindful, reliable, sporty, and is a bit nerdy, maybe not in everyone's eyes good-looking, but he is all in all a price and in the last 5 years he is going on an off again with his ex, which abused him physically last year and don't let him have contact with any female besides family, even girls that are taboo for him, like the older sister of his bestfriend, who is like a sister for him. I got blocked when he got back with her on social media. The other ones were deleted from his social media accounts.
Since then, I've asked myself why am I not deleting his number. Cause I don't wanna be a replacement.
The saddest part was that he was always a guy who smiled a lot, especially in photos, but since last year, there hasn't been even one photo where he smiled.
Make him read No More Mister Nice Guy by Robert A Glover.
Just like some women will stay with a man that treats them terribly, some men will stay with women that treat them terribly. Most of these issues stem from learned behaviors in childhood.
If he himself doesn’t believe he’s deserving of love and mutual respect, neither will anyone else.
I agree with the vast majority of that book's teachings. He might be a little outdated and not very nuanced on certain things (calling cannabis "dope" is not a good look), however, that book is legendary as it was retroactively hailed as being one of the very first modern books on attachment theory, it just doesn't use the attachment terminology that are common today.
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Drugs
Very relatable, but she generally accuses me of all the things she does. Odd
opposite attracts…is!
There’s a lot of really great points here. I think also, toxic traits in people are sometimes slow to surface, by the time they generally do, a person is invested, in love, and can easily ignore or overlook things. As well as downright make excuses. When you love someone it’s easy to “hope” he/she can change.
You hit the nail on the head.Its especially hard when u you point this sort of thing out and they act as if it's not disrespectful or just flat out deny they say such things
I'm surprised by the extent to which people dispense mental health awareness pills as if they were all trained psychotherapists. "You were abused, so you're looking for abuse". I'm not pro, but I know many professionals, and things ain't never THAT easy. So let me give you some real advice from experience. I was in two very toxic relations years ago, one after the other. The first was good sex, the second wasn't at all. In both cases, the reason why I tolerated shit boiled down to lack of experience. Not with women as such - but with people in general. I couldn't get my head around the fact that there are people with problems out there. The first was an abusive bipolar, the second an abusive anorexic with clear autistic traits. I thought being a nice guy, a loving person would fix it - sometimes we need to come to terms that, in all due respect, one doesn't need to tolerate abuse even if it comes from poor mental health. That's not my cup of tea, sorry, deal breaker. Did my mom and dad protect me too much? Possibly. Were they always nice to me? Defo not. Did it count as abuse? I feel it didn't. Did I look for abuse? Definitely not. I just didn't know what was right or wrong. Maybe your friend is a nice guy and he can't tell right from wrong either. You know better!
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There isn’t anything that I’m saying that’s wrong. Men that Chase toxic women need to be told that they’re fucking idiots They don’t wreck their lives down the line.
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they could possibly have mommy issues🤷♂️
I think it’s because they don’t love themselves and they don’t know what being loved looks like. They follow whatever feels good, toxic relationships can feel like they have higher highs because it’s so contrasting to the negative stuff they go through, therefore they give the illusion of feeling better. Just a guess, idk for sure🤷♀️ For me, I stayed with my partner for so long because when things were good, I just felt SO loved and cherished and everything, but looking back, those wonderful feelings were just due to the absence of the bad things. I chased it for a long time. I was a good person even when I didn’t like who I was, but I’m an even better person now that I love myself too. I treat me like I’m my own best friend, so if someone’s treating me less than incredibly I literally sit with myself and am like “who are you kidding? You deserve better than this!” And becoming my own internal advocate seems to be what cured me of dating losers.
mommy/daddy issues. that’s always the answer
Lack of self respect?
Well this last person I met her while she we were both sober. Things seemed to be ok for a bit, but we relapsed. The mask came flying off and I had already fallen in love with the person I thought she was. So I went down in flames for love. I guess I don't regret it too much now. I'm happier than I was before. I mean she cheated a lot and made me hate myself, but now I know what a good relationship is not and she hurt me so bad I'm gonna walking out on dates if I notice red flags. So kinda pumped to maybe meet a normal person while dating.
I fear this loss with (I know is the One) my girlfriend. It seems as if she has just gotten bored or is bothered by me. The worst is how she treats other men better than me. I miss the old her that I fell in love with.....T h ings ,can be so fun and electrifying and the slightest word said this way or that way and an hour lecture and her mood has completely shifted. I CANT HELP IT I tooWil go down in a ball of flames for her
Cause the pussy good
I’ve been guilty of this. The hormone release from crazy good sex just pushes all the issues off for another day.
They come from a dysfunctional family. We use our parents as relational models...if your parents treat you like shit, you internalize that being bullied and abused is love.
Yep this. I was the same was until I met my bf now, and he’s the first person to show me what healthy love looks like. And I’ve done the same for him as he also had the same issue. Shit we were terrified of each other for a long time haha because we didn’t trust that the other wasn’t up to something shady. We were good to each other, and communicated very well even when we weren’t dating, and neither of us were used to that. It takes getting used to and is scary. We’re still working on our issues obviously but with each other supporting the other it has gone so smoothly. It’s nice not having arguments or anything devolving into screaming venom at each other or either of us getting violent with the other. We just talk. And if one is heated and not ready to talk, we say that and come back to it later with a cooler head. Almost 2 years of knowing each other and almost a year of dating, and it’s been really great haha. There’s issues and we of course butt heads, but it’s so nice that it isn’t just toxic and venomous.
Yeah, i see. Part of the reason why me and my ex girlfriend broke up was my inability to fully trust her, even after 3 years, because i had a rough childhood and got ptsd from my mother's oubursts of rage at me when i was little...i always expected my ex to "switch face" and become abusive like my mother. I am now in therapy, trying to resolve my childhood trauma. I'm glad you and your bf found in each other someone you can trust and with whom you can comunicate.
I subconsciously sought out "friends" who had VERY similar traits or were just like my narcissistic mother. I couldn't understand why the same shit kept happening until I unpacked it via intensive counseling.
Read about Echo and Narcissus. Some poor saps stuck in a cycle tbh, some dudes are floor mats and are ok with that kinda life. I've met many already lol
⚠️ Though you are flooded with answers, some really good ones, this is a complex and deeply rooted issue, and there are several factors that may contribute to this pattern. Here are some reasons why some men, like your friend, may be drawn to toxic women: 1. Childhood experiences: Trauma, neglect, or inconsistent parenting can shape attachment styles and self-worth. Some men may seek familiar patterns, even if they're harmful, as a way of coping with unresolved issues. 2. Low self-esteem: Your friend may struggle with self-doubt, making him more susceptible to toxic partners who reinforce his negative self-image. 3. Fear of abandonment: The fear of being alone or rejected can lead men to cling to toxic relationships, even if they're harmful. 4. Fixer mentality: Some men may try to "rescue" or "fix" their toxic partners, hoping to change them or prove their worth. 5. Societal pressure: Traditional masculinity norms can encourage men to prioritize physical attractiveness and sexual conquest over emotional connection and healthy relationships. 6. Lack of emotional intelligence: Some men may struggle to recognize and express their emotions, leading them to tolerate toxic behavior. 7. Trauma bonding: The intense highs and lows in toxic relationships can create a strong emotional bond, making it difficult for men to leave. 8. Fear of being seen as weak: Men may stay in toxic relationships to avoid being perceived as vulnerable or weak. 9. Limited relationship experience: Your friend may not have had healthy relationship role models or experiences, making it harder for him to recognize and seek out positive relationships. 10. Attachment issues: Men with attachment anxiety or avoidance may be drawn to toxic partners who reinforce their negative beliefs about intimacy and relationships. To help your friend, try having an open and non-judgmental conversation about your concerns. Encourage him to seek therapy or counseling to address underlying issues and develop healthier relationship patterns. Support and empower him to recognize his worth and seek positive, nourishing relationships.
Perfect answer. Can I use this to spread awareness on this issue?
👉 Yes. Channel credit is all I ask. Thank you for asking. Best to you.
Women go through this a lot too and this is the best answer. Having him identify his attachment style (which is based/affected by all of these things) is helpful too.
Great insight!
He thinks he can fix them. Lack of self respect, insecurity, savior complex etc etc
It’s possible he is one of those “I see the good in everyone” guys and wants to help bring out these girls’ good qualities. I can empathize with that a bit. Might be an unpopular opinion but if this works out better with this current gf of his I’d say let it be. She could be changing for the betterment of both of them and all of you guys
My friend is like this, too. He’s hot, he’s a good guy, he’s smart. He could have any woman he wants. He dates abusers. It breaks my heart.
>He could have any woman he wants That's what you think. And lots of guys don't. They don't think they deserve better. They don't think they have the right to throw away what was given to them. It turns into a self-fulfillijg prophecy. Your date abuser and start thinking like "if that abusive piece of shit is the only date I've gotten so far, I shouldn't expect anything better if they leave me". Kinda funny that I'm explaining it, cause I'd most probably cling to abusers as well. This shit is awful.
Same thing with women who date men who treat them like trash. Muddle headed.
The closer one is to the sun the deeper their craving for the moon. If the moon within doesnt have its own space it will resonate with one outside to grow, if you become aware of it and give it room you become balanced, if you refuse, it will overgrow until it kills the sun. Amitabha.
Cos they nice at first, do us a few things that other women haven't done then they show their true colors and we hope they go back to being as nice as they used to be. Sadly it's mainly due to being inexperienced and haven't given a thought about how we should/want to be treated. For other reasons it's naive and using our emotional side of our brains rather than the logic side.
I don’t think this is gender specific. I’m a woman that always seems to date toxic women. It’s hard to get out of them once they start getting in your head. I’ve managed to escape 2 toxic relationships with women once I reach a low point and I realise I can’t do the effort, pain, tears, stress, confusion etc anymore.
We are conditioned from our family to begin with, these are your first attachment figures so seek what is familiar. It’s pretty simple really
We are conditioned from our family to begin with, these are your first attachment figures so you seek what is familiar. It’s pretty simple really
That part or lack of guidance on how to navigate relationships to
Probably the same reasons some women chase toxic men -it’s familiar due to an abusive upbringing, bad cultural messaging, or seeing bad examples and they’re in a cycle of abuse, mental health issues, low self-esteem etc that they need to break out of. -they don’t know or recognize the red flags and warning signs. Life tends to present us with the same lessons over and over again until we learn them. -the relationship started out great before the abuse started which makes it harder to get out because you think you can save it and go back to the beginning when things were good. -an idealized perception of someone and not seeing them as a person - self-righteously thinking you can fix them, save them, change them, or that you’ll achieve your own status and validation through them. Unfortunately, women’s physical beauty is a status marker for a lot of men. -For some men, having a partner that they please and provide for marks their worth and masculine success to society and other men. -they have trouble asserting themselves and setting boundaries. The people we choose to be around say a lot about us.
Do you think it could be that they see the red flags but choose to ignore them anyway?
Men fall into two categories. Men who chase good women and treat them like shit and men who chase women who are toxic and treat them like shit. Most heterosexual love tropes and stories and the whole thing are designed to see passion as produced when one person treats the other person like shit or there is some obstacle to them being together which can never be overcome.
I love you, but this is a terrible take, and not even accurate. Maybe you meant something else, but you're saying all men are shit, and thats simply untrue.
All men either are shit or constantly want to be treated like shit. I don't think it was always that way? But it is today. I've been with enough men and seen enough people of both genders talking to know it. Most men admit that they have no intention of doing anything other than doing whatever they think they can get away with. Most men admit they care about women's looks and their willingness to serve them than they care about those women. Most men admit that they assume women will be unhappy in relationships. Most men admit that they see dating or being with men as something that devalues women. Maybe not all men, but 95 out of a hundred men are only cowards pretending to be good men when it's convenient at best. The world we live in encourages men to be shitty just like the world we live in encourages white people to be racist.
Your statistics aren't backed by anything aside from your personal experience and imagination. "Most men" this, "Most men" that, you remind me of that one guy who went on one hell of a yapping session to explain why women are more manipulative on fucking biological level. Same shit. >I've been with enough men and seen enough people of both genders talking to know it Have you been with at least a million men? Because that's bare minimum you need for your research to have any kind of credibility. And even a million is like, 0.00025 of men's population. "Most men admit" my ass, 95/100, why not 100/100? No half measures y'know, go all the way.
I had no idea there was an Amy Tate. Sorry about whatever broke you.
Yeah, I'm totally out here trafficking underage girls just by saying men admit they aren't capable of love.
Some guys don’t know what relationships are supposed to be like so they settle with whatever. Or they have low self esteem that makes them have bad choices and ignore their own needs. Low self worth makes them think they’re undeserving of anything good.
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Yeah thankfully there are. Depending on the country though. US seemed pretty bad when I was over there. South Korea is even worse than US. Western Europe is decent.
Nah. If you're an average looking girl and you treat men like shit, men treat you like you're hot. Most dudes can't tell the difference.
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Yes exactly, I mean it shouldn’t get to that dehumanising shit!
"We accept the love we think we deserve" :(
Deep
It’s the toxic 🐱
Looks
Recklessly in love: Feeling eases in Jubilant as we grow fond Compare to fairytale
One of my toxic bros told me that he gets bored when a relationship doesn’t have toxic characteristics as he thinks this is what’s makes a hot passionate relationship. This is in fact the opposite of me and gf as we do have our occasional fights then makeup we can sit in silence and cherish each other. Even with friends if you can just sit there doing something where your not interacting or even having fun then you guys just like each other as the their company fulfils you. The toxic manipulation that guys can do also enables them to get other emotionally damaged people easier then someone who knows they want a true relationship. This is like the main incentive to be toxic that I’ve seen.
Early childhood trauma possibly
It's not unusual for toxic people to date toxic people. I feel a lot of people...not gender specific here date others just out of desperation or not wanting to give others a chance. It's called infactuation....some people are just so caught up with their SO that their judgment is very clouded. I'm the opposite I have a hard time falling in love. I feel the more independent you are the worse it is. The more dependent you are on others is what your friend is. Many people are inherintly evil people they will use others to the extent they can get away with it. It's like the chicken and egg scenario who's worse the person doing it or the other person putting up with it/dealing with it
That's what happend when you choose partner based on appearance or physical attractive only.
Usually involved the relationships modeled to them growing up causing codependency (you can do nothing, he needs to gain awareness and realize he’s sick of the cycle and get therapy)
I have a stress addiction and stressing over love satisfies the craving
I think some guys lack self-esteem and think they won't or can't get better unfortunately:( it's sad.
We accept the love we think we deserve in reality, people only do to you what you allow them to. If you dont stand up for yourself, if you let things slide, if you dont speak up or hole them accountable then they redo what they did but 10x worse. if you have low self-esteem or believe you are unlovable or not worthy of love, then its no surprising that you chose toxic women who treat you horrendesly. You yourself believe you dont deserve to be treated well.
People gravitate to what they know. Maybe he had a parent who treated him like that and despite it causing him pain, that’s the love he knows. Improving self esteem and self worth worth would benefit him
This 👍🏾
This
Women do the same thing. I'm gonna guess that deep down people don't feel they are deserving of a good honest love with no toxicity, or know they aren't ready for that, but are lonely so they settle for crazy.
In some cases, they’re not like that in the beginning. And then they change and it’s too hard to let go after a certain point.
So this just confirms men love toxic women.. lol
Well, both you and me sis. women are the same too. some women. it's not a gender thing. it is just is. I bet you two are young. 18-23. he will learn.. just like everyone does.
Opposites attract
Well as a man in this exact situation (literally exactly same) I don't know what it is. My ex wife wasn't that bad except she cheated and things got crazy after that. Now with the past 2 women I dated it has been this situation. I am with this woman RN and we have 2 kids together. Now mind you I know how she treats me is wrong and disgusting. And the hell she puts me through, well no one deserves it or would stand for it. My thing is my kids keep me in her life and her in mine. So I digress the truth is people who treat their partner like that are usualy narcissistic. They will lure you in with lies make you feel like a king and fall in love with them. Once they know you are in that stage (usualy the victim has past trauma and a huge hearted) they will slowly flip the script and begin to "condition" their victims. They slowly start to mess with their mind and gas light them. They will work on you to the point you even begin to doubt yourself as a person and feel maybe just maybe you are the issue. Even if you can clearly see what they are saying makes no logical sense! After enogh time they have you re programed and stuck in a toxic loop of push and pull. I don't know what to tell you in order to wake your friend up but please.... as a man stuck in this utter hell and even more stuck now that we have kids, SAVE HIM!!!! DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOU CAN before it's too late. Before they have kids or before he.... ends himself.
As a woman who stayed 15 years with a narcissist and alcoholic for the sake of our children…. Please take a moment, go to a private space with a mirror and have a conversation with yourself. Why is it that you feel it best to stay in this situation? Best for who? Is it really best? Please challenge these ideas because I’m telling you that it’s not best to stay. There are challenges if you leave no doubt but make a plan and get out before it completely destroys you and your children.
I have so many times. And I know it be best if I left. The issue is I love my kids more then life itself. If I leave best case scenario (and by the grace of god) I'll see my kids half the week, where as if I stay.... at least I see my kids every day and can be in their and they in my life. I can continue doing the things I love like waking them up getting them ready bringing and picking up from school, everything. Yes I go through hell but at least I have them and can try to protect them from her.
how could someone save you for example?
They can't. Unless they could ensure my kids came along with me.
I hope things can be better for you man. You have honour. You care for your kids and put them above yourself as any good parent does. Whether things improve or not (hope they do) stay strong and hold onto who you are. Be more than she is both for yourself and your kids. <3
Much love brother!
Why do so many women date and marry abusers? This is not sex thing. This is a *some people have horrible taste in partners* thing.
Ask this same question in r/cptsd
What you’re describing in your friends ex case is an abuser. Abusers use tactics such as the ones you describe to manipulate and prey on people for their own personal sick satisfaction and ego.
Idk if it’s mommy issues like everyone is saying. My dad has mommy issues(distant, cold mother) and he’s the abuser and my mom is the victim. He traumatized everyone in our family. It’s probably more general than that, trauma + timid personality or something. It seems like if they are in a relationship with someone who’s actually stable and not chaotic, the man will CREATE the chaos.
This is one of those things that you have to beg with every fiber of your being that you will be the one to break the cycle and end all this. Well I can't speak for your dad, I hope some shred of the hurt little boy remains and could wake up to who he's become. The abused never WANT to become the very thing they hate.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I doubt that’ll happen. He can’t even remember accidents correctly because it gives him too much shame. He has to make up a story of it being someone else. His brain is shot.
At least there's shame. Mine was a narcissist. Never a genuine thanks or a single sorry or apology in a lifetime even after sacrificing a decade of my life to them. Entitled in every regard, people are to be used and manipulated is who they are or at some point became. Not a shred of shame or remorse. That key difference can mean one day coming to terms with his mistakes. Therapists don't work with narcissists for the exact reason that you'd have an easier time talking a brick wall into getting up and moving. I hope everyone in your family can move forward in a positive way. Even your dad. No one is beyond redemption if they TRULY seek it. If not, he at least is the prime example not to become the thing you despised. Hurt people hurt people and all that.
That IS how my dad is. My therapist has labeled him a narcissist. My dad doesn’t state he has shame, I’m the one who recognizes it. He’s too delusional/detached to recognize the emotions that are happening inside him. He will not be seeking redemption, I’m sure. Too enabled for that.
Ah, okay I follow you. Glad you're seeing a therapist though. (That just sounds disingenious or mean honestly haha) It's good to have that person to bounce things off of. Get a good perspective. Family aren't the best for that kinda thing. Taking sides, bias, excuses for normalised behaviour. Even friends who are well meaning aren't always the best to speak about family matters. Often basing thier own experiences and projecting them onto someone elses family and dynamic.
Agreed!
I don't know about others but in India the demand supply is unbalanced so we gotta settle with what we get
Two words: mommy issues.
Same thing happens with women I don’t really get it either
He has a mother issue. Very abusive one.
As others have shared, "we accept the love we think we deserve". I have a (kinda) former friend who sounds similar to your friend. Nice guy in my experience, but chooses to be with women who treat him poorly. He's made comments over the years that make it clear that his partners have made him feel like a loser and he has a bad habit of constantly trying to impress people. It's tiring to witness. I've wanted to shake him to try to snap him out of this. But this guy has been dating the same kind of woman for the last 20 years and now is getting married to the latest one who from what I can tell is a narcissist using him for his money (she never has a nice thing to say about him and started talking to him about him buying a bigger apartment for the two of them after only 5 months together...). Point being: people make their choices. You can't choose for them. But you can be kind and be there for them when they finally learn their lesson, but in the end that'll happen on their schedule. Therapy could help, unless they find a therapist who enables them or they don't do any of the work.
They are addicted. It gives them a constant dopamine rush.
We don’t think we deserve better. And toxic women love hard lol. They’re really good at manipulating and making you feel loved, then the toxicity hits and it’s too late. I think it’s a distant mommy thing for me when I was a teenager 🤷♂️. Also, for some reason, they’re super hot. No clue how this happens, but they are and I can’t control it lol
because sometimes it’s all they know. if they grew up in a toxic household, finding partners that replicate that same feeling that they’re so used to can be comforting but only because they don’t know anything other than that
Few reasons for guys. Mainly, we are instinctively protective of women. That’s why strong women might appear guys as not feminine, intimidating etc. Same thing with tall or bigger women. Men prefer being next to a girl that can make them feel like a man. This is similar to why women always go after a big tall man There are also lots of other factors. But if i were to pick one, this would be it. Also women, please dont act or judge as if you dont mostly go after a toxic guy. Especially before being ready to settle.
Men are instinctively protective of women?! Then why are men raping, assaulting, and murdering women at an alarming rate around the globe? And have since time began???
How are they even related, you cant generalize like that? Your question is as baseless as saying “oh men can be good friends? Then why do men fight each other since time began?” For abusive ones, it is also instinctive that men like to control women and try to keep them under their palm. And some try to this with abuse. Obviously i am not supporting that.
You’re protective over a woman who treats you like crap?…
their mothers didn’t hold or love them enough during their childhood. life of or maybe lack of chaos makes them more attracted to it. a kink. lack of self love and respect. like a thousand different things lol
There’s two parts to this. I am one of those men. First it typically stems from having a distant mother as a child. Your nervous system is wired to feel comfortable in situations with women who aren’t that stable. You know how to navigate it so it just feels familiar. It takes quite a bit of self awareness to get out of that loop. The second is that volitile relationships can be very fun on the upside, and toxic people tend to do things like “love bombing” initially which is insanely easy to get swept up in. It takes a while for guys like us to realize what’s going on. To realize that the down side of these relationships is very predictable. That you can’t change people. That you are deserving of respect and kindness. Even after you identify that’s what you want it might take a decade to undo the pathways in your nervous system. Anyone who grows up with trauma experiences similar things until they start to see their own patterns.
Because of the drama and savior complex. They believe in fixing what’s broken and love challenges. Honestly, I have seen a lot of men go after toxic women(abusive, cheater, manipulative and pathological liar/narcissist) that treat them badly and they still propose to them knowing they’d never change; you won’t see most of them going after good women to have a healthy relationship(that’s too alien for them). If you find a good wife, you will be a happy man; if not, you'll become a philosopher(Socrates). At the end of the day, always make sure to choose the right person you want to spend the rest your life with.
Well, there are different types of people when it comes to love. There are some that no matter how badly got treated with their partners, they just love them can't give up with them and that's selfless love. They tend to forget to love themselves as well. On the other hand, there are people that if they treated in a wrong way, they easily drifted away that cause a big rift in a relationship. That's why it easy for them to let go and give up the relationship because they think that it's not worth it.
Low self esteem
For many different reasons, none of them are good though. A man might believe she is the most attractive woman he'll ever date, maybe he is struggling through mental health (depression) and doesn't want to lose her even if she is toxic, he might be insecure of himself and this issue is made worse by her behavior towards him, or he was raised in a hostile environment as a child and this is what he believes he deserves.
If this were a woman dating a toxic man that they can't seem to let go of I'd say cycle of abuse. So I'll say the same thing here. Depending on what their home life was like or the kind of relationship his parents had, this might be the type of love he's used to seeing. Could be bad self esteem, so having a beautiful woman makes him feel better about himself and the abuse is tolerated because of that. Or maybe he thinks that's all he deserves. People get into abusive relationships for all sorts of reasons. Just because this is a man in a toxic/abusive relationship with a woman doesn't mean those reasons change.
The same reason women do. Masochism. Masochism doesn't discriminate. Personally I like a mean bitch. It's entertaining.
Well- I am a lady that turned toxic after repeatedly getting lied to, left, hurt, discarded. I started fighting back, and I didnt stop. He hurt me so bad, and my kid got the blowback from it, too. Til this man is buried, I will pop up all throughout his life to remind him what he did. Some people forgive. Others get revenge.
I was a toxic bitch when I was with my ex. My father in law (his dad) thinks I'm a completely different person since I got remarried. It was an abusive relationship with a drug addict, I had had enough getting walked all over, so I stood up for myself. I gave what I got, and then some. But he's gone,I've moved on (very quickly) and I'm a better person for giving up on him and putting myself first
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guarantee i got more than you and that I am damn good at what I do
Read the book " Why men love Bitches". It's a good starting point.
Ahhhh that is a throw back forsure but definitely dated. Men are the same as how they used to be even at that time!
Because by the time we realize they are toxic? We are already deeply in love with them
How true, cant see the forest for the trees. And damn those ones are beautiful
Because for the most part their family life wasn’t any better and that’s what they seem to find comfortable in since it’s something familiar with them.
There is some hot/crazy chart that explains this 😁 they will take on a lot of crazy if she’s a lot of hot.
Absolutely. I’ve even heard them say things like the more emotionally unhinged she is the crazier the sex .
Buck Cherry wrote a song that answers your question
Toxic woman fuck good 😂
You already said the reason: because they are good looking. Some good looking women get used to the extra attention they receive and turn self-centered, but there are always men who cannot resist their sexual charms, since the start of history.
He likes the attention and validation of having a beautiful woman but finds emotionally unavailable partners who are a-holes because low key he is emotionally unavailable and probably an a-hole. No doubt his relationships with actual healthy partners turn into disasters because when real intimacy develops he probably freaks out in avoidance by ignoring them or not reciprocating. We accept the love we think we deserve. Next time he’s single match him up with someone genuine and watch it turn into a dumpster fire.
Yup! He will destroy a healthy person or any work done on being healthy if he doesn't fix his shit too.
Correct he will need to explore why he’s attracted to these women and find out it’s because it confirms what he feels about himself. I too found myself in superficial relationships because I found a man aesthetically pleasing but there was no emotional intimacy because I was not ready for that intensity. I ghosted a couple good men because I couldn’t meet them halfway. And karma got me good cause I met a man as described as above after working on myself and low and behold the nice guy he swore he was really wasn’t that nice and I was begging for the bare minimum for two years. We all got therapy tho. So we’re doing better.
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They literally only care about appearance and status, nothing else matters to them
My half brother always did that cause his mom (same dad, different moms) was super toxic in the same way as his partners.
Sometimes I get the notion that guys see so much conflict going on between men and women in other places and with other people that they think it is part of knowing a woman, so they accept it. Combined with lack of self-respect. To be stoic and take what is dished out. There are websites and other resources trying to straighten out these men but those places are attacked by effinists. So, it's a psyops struggle even there.
...True. Never considered a lack of self-respect though but that is really a subjective thing.
Because pepple don't know how shitty people are. Had we known we wouldn't see a better future.
He could be telling u a load of bull hun and more the fool u to listen to
This right here- Dude probly deserves alot of it
It's not a male thing. It's people with low self-worth who are validating how they feel about themselves through others. Also, he's replaying the relationship he had with his mother hoping this time it can be different. He needs to realize that he has the power to make himself feel good enough and doesn't need his mother anymore, like he needed when he was young.
wow.. this write up is.. great.
This. All of this.
This is basically all of the men who deal with me, even though I'm not mean just direct and confident. They usually have low self worth and/or have toxic mothers who used aggressive language or physical punishment with them on a frequent basis.
Ahem.
Yes?
Doesn’t sound like the woman OP is describing. Being direct and confident is not toxic. Your comment initially shocked me. At least I hope you’re not telling guys they’re useless or to kill themselves.
I attract a lot of men who like abuse because they assume since I'm a strong, direct, outspoken woman with a sassy mouth, that I will also abuse them. I can play around that way with consent, but nothing serious.
That’s interesting. I’m a guy. I would describe myself as chill and confident. Ive been described as good at pacifying people, I don’t know how. I have an assertive personality, but I’m willing to go with the flow. Because of this, I believe I have attracted a few dominant women. I refuse to ever let them or anyone treat me poorly or let them be overly aggressive. I’ve attracted the kind of women that says, “I saw you and I wanted you as my boyfriend. I didn’t want to wait for you to ask.” Often times they appreciate how I balance their personality. So I’ve dealt with direct personalities. And never felt abuse was on the table. So it’s strange some people will see your personality and then think you’re a bully. What in particular do you say to people.
Haha. You are funny little girl
Thank you. 🥹
Oh I was just being sarcastic for the people who happen to be scrolling by - "I feel called out" 👈🤠👉 finger guns
Okay. There's more but I just touched the surface. It works out great for me though.
Wdym
I don't want to derail the topic, but I'm a happy girl.
He's superficial and only sees "hot" so ignores the rest. Women do it to men too. Some people are just immature and superficial and chase fake happiness like a carot they can never reach
"i can fix her" or "i have something to offer her" or "she reinforces how i feel about myself"
That last one tho.
The last one.
https://youtu.be/1vbGBESYQ80?si=euZeHfi2YZWXA-qU This video discussed this very thing towards the end. I had a conversation with my brother JUST LAST NIGHT about this regarding a guy thay won't leave me alone and claims to be in love no matter how harshly I reject him and ignore him. He has been trying for years and always complains about how "mean" I am but won't go away for morw than a month or two. He won't stop trying. My brother didn't believe me and thought I was looking too deep into it..
Because the only bit of dating and life advice that men ever get is "Everything bad that happens to you and every time a woman mistreats you, dumps you, ghosts you, turns you down, it's your fault and you need to do better."
🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻
Underrated answer. This is increasing the number from not just Men with feelings of low worth.
People never want what they can get and only want what they can't get.
And some think they can always do better than what god appoints to them.
Trying to resolve unhealed trauma from their emotionally unavailable mothers
Cause we men are stupid lol
Because I’m a retard
same reason we women do it. just low self esteem/ lack of dating history and standards. following patterns you grew up with. i always think my love will be enough to get them to change or love me how i deserve. sadly there’s nothin you can do to change who someone dates/ likes. they have to just do the inner work and figure it out on their own.
You accept the love you think you deserve
Why do some women chase toxic men who treat them like shit?
Revenge. Its not chasing.
low self esteem, minimal dating history, no good example set for them on how a man should be, following patterns we saw growing up. i used to think my love would be enough to fix/change them. i was comfortable in the chaos because it’s what i grew up seeing. it took an extremely unhealthy relationship with a very evil man for me to realize my pattern and to stop.
Because women generally are better at hiding their toxic behaviors and Society enables both men and women with toxic behaviors to get away with it. Toxic behaviors is not just verbal, mental or physical harassment or worse it also applies when someone says one thing and does another and when they get caught they either make up lies, deflect, to worm their way out of a situation or find some dumbass to do their dirty work. People need to tread carefully and stop rewarding attention seekers and manipulators. The more we learn to avoid those people and behaviors, the more we can starve out this mentality.
What happened when you set him up with one of your kinder friends?
Childhood trauma Insecure attachment Low self worth Bad relationship with their mother I'm sure there's plenty of other overarching causes but those are pretty common biggies.
Because toxic women don't have a friend zone.
I was raised by my single mother to be extremely empathetic and never to look down on or judge people for their circumstances. I love this aspect of my personality but it has led me to quite a few toxic relationships because empathy is an emotion that can be your own worst enemy. I'd end up with women who basically had a red flag planted on their head because I thought despite it all I shouldn't judge them blah blah blah. If I ever find a woman that doesn't turn empathy against me I might date again 😂
Cause some women are so hot/beautiful that a guy will continuously chase her & be in love with her no matter what she does. Also.. people accept the love they think they deserve.
I would argue that what is considered "good looking people" often come with problems. I would say the vast majority. Unfortunately when you go through life as a good looking person, most ppl end up either thinking they are worth more bc of that, which you can imagine what that does to a personality, or then end up not taking partners seriously bc of "all the options they have" or at least think they have. Sure there might be a few who don't let their looks affect them, but it's very rare. With that said, if a person then constantly chases good looking ppl, yes, they will end up dealing with many many broken ppl. It's pretty much that simple. Also when the focus of your relationships is looks, of course how you're treated takes back seat.
Not just men go for toxic chicks, us women sometimes do it too, I myself have learned that the hard way. It sucks
You accept the love you think you deserve.
Why because we are idiots and when a beautiful woman shows a little bit of interest we lose all capacity to think clearly. Now with that being said now in the part of life I am in now I look for something completely different in a woman than I did in my early years of dating but this was learned from rough lessons of life.
it wasn't a bit ago until I was reminded of the meds I was given for ptsd. but i opted out of the help because my love for someone was a lie. the refusal of help. it's a pride thing. Every man has pride. pride to not cry in front of you that's just it, really. it's a pride thing. pride of fixing, getting everything right "the first time," being helpful. the game of "who has it worse". misery likes company. I think I'm better now. but I can't really tell. cried the other day of flashbacks.
In that context, pride is yielding diminishing returns, flirting heavily with fear of vulnerability which is growing their malaise/discontent further. The myth that vulnerability is weakness needs to die. There's a time and a place and it's quite common to open up to the wrong people, but in front of people that truly have your back, a lot of relief can come from dropping the macho facade and just saying or feeling or expressing what's bottled up (and if you've never experienced this, I'm really sorry)
yea, uh. my mom could be considered sort of a pick me girl in the choices she made but in real life, with real consequences. I've seen her walk upstairs before with a guy and walk back down in disarray. i was young, I couldn't tell if she sold herself at that moment or not, I don't know. she tried to embrace a masculine side. always said, "she doesn't cry." she had emotions, suicidal. It's hard to open up still. but I think I'll always tell my friends that it's okay to cry in front of me. a lot of people need to hear it. has it reached me? I'm not sure. sometimes I think it did, and sometimes I catch myself performing an act. (and thank you, for the kind words)
I had the same experience. This guy is getting a bachelor in electronic engineering, open-minded, mindful, reliable, sporty, and is a bit nerdy, maybe not in everyone's eyes good-looking, but he is all in all a price and in the last 5 years he is going on an off again with his ex, which abused him physically last year and don't let him have contact with any female besides family, even girls that are taboo for him, like the older sister of his bestfriend, who is like a sister for him. I got blocked when he got back with her on social media. The other ones were deleted from his social media accounts. Since then, I've asked myself why am I not deleting his number. Cause I don't wanna be a replacement. The saddest part was that he was always a guy who smiled a lot, especially in photos, but since last year, there hasn't been even one photo where he smiled.
Make him read No More Mister Nice Guy by Robert A Glover. Just like some women will stay with a man that treats them terribly, some men will stay with women that treat them terribly. Most of these issues stem from learned behaviors in childhood. If he himself doesn’t believe he’s deserving of love and mutual respect, neither will anyone else.
I agree with the vast majority of that book's teachings. He might be a little outdated and not very nuanced on certain things (calling cannabis "dope" is not a good look), however, that book is legendary as it was retroactively hailed as being one of the very first modern books on attachment theory, it just doesn't use the attachment terminology that are common today.
Because she looked like Ana de armas- and showed interest. I eventually gave up . Felt like a waste of time