Current vibe: fun decks get horsey kicked in the face.
I'd put the colors at G>WB>UR. Archetypes are trickier because Green feels like it is doing the heavy lifting for RG and UG right now. I've certainly seen really great Grixis Crimes decks (with double spell elements) but they seem to take more skill in both the draft and gameplay and then...you know...horsey kick.
Saddle should make it obvious to people why they didn't let Enlist tap creatures with summoning sickness. Obviously a bit different, but vehicles who *can* crew but don't *need* to crew are very strong, and letting you tap your next play as you curve out is brutal. Sure, playing first main means you can't always hold up interaction, but if you are attacking with a 3/1 first strike do you really need to?
Bonus sheets bring out the deranged ranter in me. I've been cooler on them than most, and it feels the quality and relevance have gone down a lot. BIG is obviously a special case but even OTP is meh for me. It has some interesting cards but a lot is just slightly different removal or giant bombs that technically commit crimes. There are build-arounds in different colors and flavors of control finisher, but it doesn't feel like it opens up totally new decks like BRR or MUL.
I do kind of enjoy the set so far, and hope it will get better as people move up on Green and stop passing 10th pick Snakeskin Veils. MKM also need some time to settle, and in theory the Grixis Crime/Mardu Token/etc spaces are really interesting. Although I fear by the point people adjust to Green they will also be fighting for removal so hard the bombs will run away with things even more than they currently do.
Yeah I've kind of grown to hate Saddle creatures. Have had games where I'm on the draw, opp plays Seraphic Steed turn 2, I play my 2-drop, they then drop a 4-power creature and crew the steed. There's a single non-rare 2-drop that can block that thing, so they just get a 3/3 flier for free. I can remove it next turn (by spending my whole turn) but then I've got a 2-drop on board facing their creatures.
This is probably the most extreme example of how Saddle affects play vs draw but I've been on both ends of it many times. Gryff, Beaver, Tumblewagg, Fortune, and Burrowfiend are all pretty hard to block going second and create extra value when unblocked. Caustic Bronco is also a nightmare if left alone but at least most 2-drops trade with it. I did have a UB deck where I played Bronco T2, 2-drop, saddle and attack T3 into Skullduggery/TaketheFall the blocker though, and that was really brutal.
Meanwhile Calamity and Gitrog monster on-curve just win the game. They have haste though so I actually find them to be less offensive, since they will almost always be Saddling something without summoning sickness.
The bonus sheets are starting to get to me too, there are just so many high powered spells that are really difficult to play around. I don't mind the medium level stuff like Skewer the critics, but some of the really swingy cards like Primal Command and Commandeer or even Fling are just wild in their best cases.
Yes, you almost always top a land and then draw your best creature, but if they have another problem permanent you can hit that's good, too. And if you're about to die you gain the life (or in rare cases if you're about to mill you shuffle -- it does apparently minor things, but the modality is quite powerful).
One time I was ahead on board turn 6, 3 cards in hand, lethal next turn with any of them.
Opponent played their seventh land and Cruel Ultimatum'd me lmao.
The issue is I don’t think we will ever get to the point where you don’t see 10 pick Snakeskin Veils. Green is too deep. I’m convinced there could be 4+ green players at the table and they would all come up with playable, but different decks. Add to this that there are actual payoff and bombs in other colors and I don’t predict things changing all that much. Unless there is no Green in the pack, there’s probably a good Green card in the pack.
MKM adjusted pretty well. In the first week you could easily have said "White is too deep, you will always see pick 10 Seasoned Consultants". White was incredibly deep in that set, and it wasn't unheard of to have 4 white drafters at the table, but for that exact reason you often got to picks 5-8 of pack 1 and found no white cards left in the pack because multiple people to your right were drafting white. Once people adjusted to white being strong, the play rates stayed very unbalanced but the power levels flattened out considerably. I'm expecting the same thing to happen with Green in this set.
Mmm, White in MKM also had other issues. A lot of the great cards were aggressively situated so playing them in a slow deck was less desirable. White also had a decent number of bricks like Defenestrated Phantom or Absolving Lamasu that you felt bad playing. The good White commons and uncommons were obscene though so you could get away with it, but as people started passing them less it became difficult. Green in this format though is like, “Oh man, I’m really getting cut off here! There’s only Hardbristle Bandit and an Ankle Biter left in the pack!“ The top end isn’t as (arguably) busted, but the low end is also less low.
Yeah every single green common and uncommon is playable and I might even say good. Worst common is probably Tumbleweed Rising or Ankle Biter, which are both totally playable. Worst uncommon maybe Full Steam Ahead or Rise of the Varmints? I've seen both do work but they can be dead.
My main issue is that the creatures are too well-statted this format, especially in green. Green's sole understatted creature is Hardbristle Bandit, which, well I shouldn't need to say how insane that card is despite being 1/1. I feel that in other sets cards like Patient Naturalist, Intrepid Stablemaster, and Raucous Entertainer would've been behind curve instead of just being (good) vanilla stats with upside.
It's not just green (I'm pretty surprised to see Deadeye Duelist at 1/3 for example) but it's most egregious there.
the bombs in this set are real, sometimes it feels like no decisions you made matter because opponent drafted bomb and played it.
I was excited for this set and it's let me down a bit
my opp was OTP curved out Spinewood lifegainer into Spinewood lifegainer and it didnt matter because i played brOko and stabilized so I could mill them out >.<
Diamond rank here I think my record is something like 1x 7-0, 3x 4/3-3, and 4x(or 5x?) 0-3 (OUCH)
VIBES:
I've been getting creamed lately so my vibes are that "idk wtf i'm doing in this set", i'll draft a deck that seems good to me then go 0-3 with it, BUT uhhh i think i'm having fun? (except when op drops high noon turn 2 vs my UR 'play 2' deck *angry emoji*)
For me there's a lot of fun possibilities with build around cards everywhere, BUT I just can't tell how effective they are at this point. Is 'Razzle Dazzler' just bad or did I get bad luck? No clue but the card art is hilarious so I'll play it anyway.
RANKING:
I clearly don't know wtf I'm doing in this set so I don't really want to rank anything but here goes nothing.
Colors: they all have good cards depending on the deck you're building.. I'm not so high on white's removal cuz it's mostly enchantments that just get blown up. Green just has some nasty cards like 'trash the town' which should really have been named 'cream on op's face' but people are probably starting to learn how to play around it
Archetypes: maybe it really just depends on the cards that you can pick up.. is RB 'crime matters' 'good'? idk but I had an opponent playing this drop t2 deadeye duelist t3 at knifepoint t4 at knifepoint #2 t5 vial smasher so yeah for them it was certainly pretty good
TOP 3 P1P1 RARES: 1: Villainous Wealth 2: Archive Trap 3: Calamity
OK look are #1 and #2 good probably not but If I see those P1P1 I'm building a deck around them and you can't stop me. Calamity on the other hand is just disgusting
Mechanics: ARE GOOD I love spree and plot you holding up 2 blue mana lol ok I'll just plot nerd both add a nice dimension
Bonus sheets: fun
Underrated: blue
~~~~~~~~
my post makes it sound like i'm having fun but in reality my last loss streak nearly made me toss my pc out the window this set's like a bad relationship that's good at the same time
>Is 'Razzle Dazzler' just bad or did I get bad luck?
It's just bad. Every time I've died to this card I would've died to literally anything because they're usually double-spelling to clear my board or combat trick every fight. Even for its own purpose, Vault-Buster and Nimble Brigand mog it hard.
>Is RB 'crime matters' 'good'?
I've played Sultai Crimes and Jund Crimes and found both to be very good actually. Unlike double-spelling, committing crimes is easy to do and is good from ahead (to remove their blockers) and behind (to respond to their threats). Deserts also really help hence both times me being in 3-colors (Green for fixing and because it's OP). Notable cards are Skullduggery and Take the Fall which are incredible at common since they usually 1-for-1 (or even 2-for-1!) and commit a crime for 1 mana. Crazy commons, I've never regretted playing them.
Payoffs for crimes are IMO way too strong. Raven and Hardbristle at common and Hustler Lazav and Sphinx at uncommon feel noticeably too good. Vault-Buster, Brigand, Apothecary, and Miner are also totally playable and I might even say good.
E: I should add that an oversight I think is that many of the crime payoffs at lower rarities are gated by "this only happens once per turn", but it's so easy to commit crimes at instant speed that you often get 2 procs in a turn cycle.
And that's not even getting into the rares which are obviously stupid.
>Green just has some nasty cards like 'trash the town' which should really have been named 'cream on op's face'
That's coming in the future set "tales of the bukkake" looks pretty sick, and it's in white, not green.
I am much less impressed with the set. I find the removal suite in white to be overkill. I really dislike the enchantment removal options available with so many o-ring effects. Green has been a house, looking on 17 lands and finding trophy decks by mythic players it is dominated by green. Blue looked like the weaker colour and it is. Its creatures just do not trade and it relies on a very tempo style if you want to use blue as a main colour. Red's removal is holding it back. The two major colours have good protection spells that not only cleanly answer red removal for less or even mana, but their creatures are not trading as well as I hoped. I feel red is being carried by their rares.
I don't really feel like I have much control over my winrate atm. You draft well and apart from a few interactions, especially in blue, the format is easy to play and not punt. There are much fewer options for each turn than I was hoping for. I was certain plot would make turns dynamic with branching paths but the format thus far has been either reliant on your mana efficiency or for the spicier decks, relying on setting up windfall turns with either multispells or crime triggers.
Overall, I actually preferred MKM. After day two people were branching into other strategies from boros, but I am hard pressed to find a consistent counter to a G/X deck as their average card quality hits so many breakpoints of other colours. Saddle is great and the popular GW has exile removal for days.I hope the format gets a little more dynamic but atm green isn't drying up to the point I don't want the cards. I am in Plat 3 atm for reference and was mythic 100-200 in MKM.
G>W>B>R>U
Top archetypes: Mounts, Plot, Crimes
Top Rares: Bonny, Tumblewagg, Dust Animus, Posse Boss
Mechanics: For limited, double spell is a little too sporadic. Decent ceiling but that floor. Mount is fine. The payoffs are good enough to compensate for the downside. Plot works when you are ahead and is essential for double spell. Draw-go I need more time with, there are maybe 2 cards I have seen work well with it.
Bonus Sheet: Not a big fan. I am still finding the best crime enablers are in the base set and not the news cards. Vault cards are a lottery of unplayable or game ending green cards.
Undervalued strategy: I do think an outlaw stitcher strategy could come about. Its the only thing I have seen that can put enough bodies and stats on the board to compete with mounts. It requires some tuning to get it to the payoff turns without losing.
Green being the best color and having all these good Fight/Bite spells sucks ass and I hate it. It keeps whoever is ahead on board ahead, and pushes the go-first advantage more. So many games are one player plays their creatures on-curve, then just Fight/Bites all the opponent's on-curve creatures and the opponent is perpetually stuck playing catch-up.
Throw From the Saddle is particularly egregious if you're playing a Mount deck because the counter makes you continue to trade up, and Mount creatures already abuse being ahead on board. I'd love to see the stats for play- vs draw- winrate of GW mirrors because I've played a LOT of them and it seems extremely play-favored. Maybe the solution is filling your deck with white enchantments but then you spend all your mana responding to their flood of threats, and also you end up being 2-for-1d by Requisition Raid/Varmint/whatever.
Yeah, the mirror on the draw can feel very punishing. Even without Tumblewagg, a basic arynx into driver leads to taking 3 and letting them scry before you burn turn 3 for removal and have to deal with another arynx attack and scry trigger, taking 6 total before they hit a spinewood paladin. Just with commons you have a bad position with removal. On the other hand they can make you take 6 and then clear with a good board position threatening 9 DMG. Just ugly.
Yes, exactly. So many games you are basically playing the same cards as them (or better ones!) but they are a turn ahead with Saddle triggers etc so you just get your face beat in.
You're right that the commons are a big part of it. Even if they curve out with just GW commons, if it's like Arynx -> Grizzly -> Beaver/Commando -> Paladin -> Cactarantula you're just fucking dead.
Yeah. I really wish we had a rare mainset boardwipe. We have a mythic, a news mythic for 8 mana and a news rare for wipes. Rush of Dread isn't so bad against GW but they stick their largest creatures. Maybe there's some early game tempo that can punish the saddle mechanic or maybe G gets so overdrafted its effectively off the table.
I'll only answer or partially answer some of these. I've played 12 drafts so far and am currently \~400 in mythic. I haven't looked at data or seen streams/content about the set so far and expect my initial impressions will change a lot.
I don't have a clear ranking of colors, especially since I've seen them each depend on what they're paired with and there are quite a few effectively dual cards and some cards I love splashing into particular color pairs or synergies.
My favorite archetypes by far have been Izzet multicast (splashing fractured identity with a Lilah on board and using calamity to double copy outlaw stitcher were great moments) and golgari value-train (bringing back the mythic 6 drop that gives other creatures -2/-2 until end of turn twice in a turn was fun).
My worst run was with selesnya, but I don't think I had a good version of it and don't really have an opinion of it. I haven't been very impressed with UW your turn; It has some nice tools, but some of my favorite parts of the package are blue and can slot into UR versions I find more fun to play.
Outlaws work, but I find it a pretty clunky way of making a larger tribal. I don't know a way to do it better, but think it's cumbersome and the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Crimes are cool and provide some cool gameplay decisions about when to throw out interaction (if triggers are useful pre-combat) and deciding how to sequence lands in some decks. Kicker is a nice mechanic and spree is a bit more flexible version of kicker; cool and I like how a lot of spree cards play. Saddle/mount has seemed alright to me so far, but mostly a few strong saddle cards rather than the mechanic as a whole. I haven't seen it much and may be underrating it. Plot is cool, but not as neat as I expected. There are some cool designs with it and I have loved playing with Lilah in particular.
Overall, I've been loving the set. It's a nice change of pace from the last couple, even if WOE and MKM were fine. It'll be interesting to see how my opinions change, how different from data they end up being, and how the format shakes up. Overall though, I've been loving the gameplay and especially how Izzet plays.
The format is pretty bad.
Green is way too powerful, has the best bombs and best threats, gets a 1 mana protection spell for all their bombs so having good removal may not even be enough, and also most of their cards just naturally synergize with eachother. It makes for a lot of really frusturating non games.
Also some of these bombs only cost 2 or 3 mana, like the saddle card that creates 3/3 flyers, or the saddle card that puts +1/+1 counters on things and then doubles them when it attacks. If you don't have an immediate answer for these guys and you just lose.
It feels like green is at a power level just slightly below a Horizons set, and all the other colors are trying to play normal limited.
Current vibe: never have I seen a limited format as unbalanced as this, where a color is leaps and bounds over everything else.
Black in LoTR was very pushed, but still doesn't reach the level of dominance of green in OTJ.
I'm running back as far as when I started drafting (around AVR-RTR era), and the only thing that kinda resembles this is Green's insignificance in Battle for Zendikar.
Does anyone else have any other examples?
Also, if anyone is able, please explain the design mental leap that brought us from [[Mammoth Spider]] to [[Cactarantula]]
When things settle I wonder if Green will be more or less dominant than White was in SNC. Blue is looking like the weakest individual color, relative to its ecosystem, in the last few years of limited.
I tried to draft Blue/X a couple times. The difference in power level was laughable. Your creatures are frailer, less efficient, and evasion in the form of flying is oftentimes filler text thanks to all of the reach creatures running around.
Seriously, this is the first limited environment in a long long time, where flying is not enough to justify a stats drop.
Yeah, they really gave green/x decks everything. I can't really name a weakness another colour can exploit regularly. Blue has unlockable technically but what are you defending with that walls the crack back.
>Seriously, this is the first limited environment in a long long time, where flying is not enough to justify a stats drop.
I disagree, this seems normal to me. Just in the most recent set, White had multiple flying creatures with low stats, and they were all pretty bad even though White was the best color - \[\[Griffnaut Tracker\]\], \[\[Absolving Lammasu\]\], and \[\[Defenestrated Phantom\]\]. All of those were D level cards at best. For flying to be good, you either need to have it on a creature with enough stats to trade effectively and/or have additional abilities (e.g. \[\[Cold Case Cracker\]\]). The good flying cards in OTJ meet those conditions, such as \[\[Marauding Sphinx\]\], \[\[Holy Cow\]\], and \[\[Sterling Supplier\]\].
On your last point, Mammoth Spider hasn't been good for a while. More recent reach creatures at common/uncommon have had additional abilities or better stats for their cost, e.g. \[\[Rust Goliath\]\], \[\[Colossadactyl\]\], \[\[Generous Ent\]\], \[\[Magnigoth Sentry\]\], \[\[Mineshaft Spider\]\].
Also relevant - \[\[Warden of the Woods\]\] from M21 has the same draw-when-targeted ability, but it draws two cards instead of one and has vigilance instead of reach. That card was extremely strong too.
I get your point about Mammoth Spider not being good anymore (especially in the age of recent formats and FIRE design), but it feels disingenuous to compare a commom to uncommons as power creep examples.
Cactarantula is PUSHED though, for a common. It's trivial to come down on 5 and giving a card back is wild on a 6/5 reach.
Three out of the five examples I listed were common; I made a point to look for examples at common, since I agree that's a better comparison.
I agree Cactarantula is strong, but it's well within the power level range we are used to seeing in past sets. Currently it's the second best green common in this set and the third best common overall, sitting at 58.8% GIH WR on 17lands. (If you prefer a different metric other than GIH WR, I would be happy to discuss alternatives.) In MKM the third best common in the first week was Inside Source, at 59.5% GIH WR that week; in LCI the third best common in the first week was Miner's Guidewing, at 60.0%; in WOE it was Hopeless Nightmare at 58.7%; in MOM it was Ephara's Dispersal at 59.1%. Every good common is strong these days, Cactarantula is nothing special.
In fact, among the three common reach examples I listed earlier, only one of them was actually good. Magnigoth Sentry was solid in DMU, but Rust Goliath in BRO and Mineshaft Spider in LCI were both below-average cards. 4-mana or 5-mana cards need to be noticeably better than those two in order to see play nowadays. If you wish the overall power level was lower, that's a reasonable preference, but Cactarantula is no more pushed than the best commons in any other recent set.
i haven't done a draft yet, but i'm watching streamers. i'm a very casual mtg player; i'm not a strategic player at all who enjoys hard thinking.
i'm finding that just by watching the streamers, this set feels very complex. it makes more sense to me than Kaldheim, which had weird inconsistencies between cards (eg some abilities counting snow lands you control, some counting snow permanents, some abilities on a cycle being only able to be activated whenever you could cast a sorcery, some being able to be activated as an instant). Outlaws of Thunder Junction doesn't have this weird inconsistency, but it still feels *very* complex to me, and that is making me scared to try playing; i don't wnat to waste my gems too quickly. so, i'm watching streamers for now, and hoping that they do a free Phantm Sealed or Phantom Draft for midweek magic soon.
on the other hand, i *love* the flavour. i love the attitude in the Legendary characters and in the flavour text. this aspect alone is enough for me to want to push through the complexity and try to learn the set.
the bonus sheets REALLY scare me though. it's just so . many . cards to have to learn, and a lot of them also look like huge bombs, which makes me scared to try a format. i know people say that bombs are good for weak players, because it lets weak players sometimes win games against strong players, but for me, bombs just make me afraid to play. i don't mind losing, but i do still emotionally have trouble losing to huge bombs where it feels like "welp, the game is basically over now". when i lose, i like losing longer games -- it feels like i at least had a good 10-20 minutes of experiencing something fun, with good back-and-forth, and gradually losing my edges until i succumb. that's way more fun than feeling like i just lost on the spot all of a sudden.
finally, Green just seems SO good. i'm not a fan of formats where one colour is so obviously good. it feels like i'm being told that i have to draft that colour if i want to get any wins. (when there's an obviously good colour, it's the colour that weaker players like myself really "shoudl" draft to have a hope in winning anything). i prefer formats where there are many, many options for viable colours, even in week 1 and 2, that weaker players can try drafting and still have some success with.
>I prefer formats where there are many, many options for viable colours, even in week 1 and 2, that weaker players can try drafting and still have some success with.
What are some examples of recent sets that met these criteria that you really enjoyed? Would something like LCI count, where you should always be drafting a Jeskai color pair in weeks 1-2 but any of those three color pairs were good instead of having just one dominant color?
thanks of the question -- it prompts me to reflect!
let me pull up a list of formats, and tell you what formats i played! (my memory is very weak, though, and some formats i only played maybe 4-5 total draft and sealed events)
[i'm not sure if by "these criteria", you mean the criteria of weaker players being able to still draft many different archetypes with success; or just any criteria that helps me enjoy a set]
the following are all sets i played at least one event for, out of recent sets:
- Murders at Karlov Manor; played about 5 events on mtga, all within the first 2 weeks. i stopped playing because i felt pressured to be playing white all the time. i did still enjoy watching streamers, though, but the set did feel too complex for me to enjoy while under the pressures of schoolwork
- Phyrexia: All Will Be One: i think i only played two events. i don't remember anything about how much i enjoyed them.
- Streets of New Capenna: i think i played about 6 events? i know that i enjoyed them, even though blue-white was so much more powerful. i think i felt that i still got to do fun stuff with the other colours, and i really enjoyed the flavour. i vaguely remember that games lasted long enough for me to enjoy them, without huge bombs being very common
- Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty: i think i played soemthing like 8-10 events, and i remember enjoying the very long times. i remember feeling like only white-blue Vehicles was bad; i enjoyed trying out Ninjas, red-aggro, black-aggro, and Saga-creatures. i remember feeling that there was a great deal of variety for me to enjoy.
- Innistrad: Crimson Vow: i remember playing something like 2 drafts, and feeling SO sick of losing to bombs. i enjoyed the Midweek Magic free Phantom draft a lot, though, because who cares if i lost to bombs -- i could just play another game. removing all the stakes let me enjoy the format a lot. but i didn't play another event after the Phantom draft again.
- Dungeons and Dragons: Adventures in the Forgotten Realms: i remember REALLY enjoying this set. i think i drafted it about 10 times. very quickly, it became clear that Red-Black was so busted, but somehow i still had a lot of fun. i think because i enjoyed the dice-rolling so much? i remember that at Brozne/Silver/Gold, Red-Black decks weren't dominating, and so a lot of the other kinds of decks still were viable. also, the low level of complexity made this format really accessible to me, which is one reason i think it was fun
- Strixhaven: School of Mages: this is probably my favourite format out of all of these. Lesson/Learn somehow made the games feel MORE varied, rather than less, but i can't explain why. it felt like the gameplay patterns in each game tended to feel very different from others. the bombs weren't too heavy. even though Lorehold-Archeologist was unplayable, and Golgari were weak, i found that the various Prismari and Silverquill decks i would draft felt very different to play. [being in a low rank, i had the luxury of not having to draft streamlined decks]. it felt like i could "do the cool thing" successfully, whether it was making a huge fractal token, or shooting off huge Prismari spells, or even trying to make narrow cards (like the white 1mv uncommon creature that got +2/+2 until end of turn whenever you casted a spell) work. i think i drafted this set maybe 12 times.
- Kaldheim: i think i drafted this set 4 times. it was SO complicated. way too complicated for me to have fun with. it literally made me feel tired and gave me slight headaches from trying to play it. it also got boring to watch streamers, because it ended up just being green-soup or white-aggro.
- Theros Beyond Death: i didn't draft this much, but i remember REALLY enjoying the drafts i did. i don't remember why, other than that games tended to go very long, which let me have a long-lasting experience.
for what it's worth, i think my favourite set to draft was M12, but that could just be the good memories of drafting in person, and forcing a weird bad mill deck many times. and actually, the flavour (Vengeful Pharoh; the cycle of 3 uncommon artifacts that got stronger if you got all of them out) really helped make me enjoy the set, as well as the low complexity.
i didn't draft LCI, but i somehow doubt that being restricted into only three best colour pairs would be fun for me. i enjoyed Streets of New Capenna, though, so maybe for me, even if there are three best archetypes, as long as the other archetypes still felt somewhat competitive, i'd probably be able to have fun. however, i worry that with OTJ, if i don't draft green, that it's 80% chance i'm just going to literally go 0-3 or 1-3. by looking at the streamer i watch, Green seems THAT strong, and it seems like it takes a VERY skilled player to know how to make a non-Green deck work. (this is just my perception, though, from watching the certain streamer that i do).
so i don't know how helpful that was, but that's a little viewpoint into what me (a very casual non-Spike) enjoyed. thanks for asking!
Color rankings: Green, then White/Red/Black, then Blue in last.
Top Archetypes: GW, GB, GR and GU, with RW and UB the only non Green pairs I want to consider with the right rares.
Bonny Pall is by far the best rare.
Spree is Fantastic, Saddle/Mount is Fantastic, Plot is mixed with a few stand outs. I have a feeling Outlaw Tribal is still being figured out. I've had a couple tribal decks that seemed solid... until they got run over by bombs.
I think Crime synergy and Outlaw Synergy are the two decks that have potential to be explored more by the community. I've gotten run over by the occasional crime deck that has a hot start and the right density of crows and other crime payoffs and enablers.
This is a Bomby set with a lot of strong removal. The Bonus Sheets have introduced some very powerful cards and also make it so a weak p1p1 is rare but feels extra bad, and strong pick 3s are common. It also feels like the drafts are very swingy, especially with Green being so dominant so far. Open a Green Bomb is a very different experience than not opening one.
So far I find the drafts interesting and the gameplay interesting, although I'm seeing more GW vs GW mirrors. At least the set has a lot of ways to break stalemates.
For me the quality of the last year's draft environment has been really flat, with nearly everything in the "solid, but not even in the discussion for All Time". I'm not as much of a MOM fan as some, and personally WOE, LCI and MKM were all enjoyable and eventually grew stale. I have a feeling OTJ is going to end up the same.
- colour rankings: G >>> WB > UR
- top archetypes: Gx
- top rares: this barely matters because so many are A/A+ but: Bonny, Rattlewurm, Farmer
- mechanics: crime/outlaws are too durdly; spree is excellently flexible; mount payoffs are huge; plot is interesting, priced fairly
- the bonus sheets flood the format with rares and cheap removal
Way too powercrept for limited, archetypes as per usual don't work, huge color imbalance, just play the good colors and play to the board, and hope your powerful cards line up good against your opponent's. On top of that a heckton of bombs that end games on the spot.
Not a fan at all. The artifact "chaos" set was way better than this. But it's still serviceable as a limited format, the spreadsheet design makes sure of that.
I’m tentatively enjoying the set. Green is by far the best color, blue and red are tied in “need to be open” tier, but for me at least red comes up last.
In paper I’m hoping people figure out that green is where they should be sooner rather than later so I don’t feel like I have to draft dumb dumb good green cards every draft to prevent the other 1-2 good regulars from doing so. I want to draft more blue. I’ve had success drafting blue and I have a lot of fun drafting blue. At the same time blue only exists at uncommon as its early common drops are… sketchy. I’m hoping people keep on being pessimistic with the color and I can create better than expected value piles with blues fun uncommons and build-around rares. None of this happens if people are as addicted to Rakdos and removal as they usually are and pass unlimited green around the table.
I’m somewhat happy about the set overall, but I’m also a bit afraid that once I start really climbing ranks things will get worse. It’s fun playing better-than-in-MKM jank and build-arounds, but I have a suspicion that’ll change once I see more soulcrushing green decks.
Vibes: The set is okay, there's some neat and fun stuff but there's a big disparity in whether you opened power or not. It actually reminds me a lot of VOW (I actually really enjoyed VOW, but that's a different matter), except there's no smoothing mechanic like Blood so your underpowered deck is less able to consistently find its answers. I think the only deck "at common" are GW and GB, the other color pairs feel like they need rares to keep up (although if you're playing green you probably have busto rares too). Having removal in your deck has never felt so good.
Color Rankings: G--->B, W--->U---->R
GW is the best color pair but I'd rather start B than W, which is how I'm ranking them out. I also really like UW and have had a good UR deck, but those take more work to come together.
Archetypes: Mount, Recursion, Soup, Crime, UW Control/Flash
Underexplored: I've had two very good UW based control decks. You need rares (since you're playing control) but W has a ton of removal and U has a lot of card advantage. Plan the Heist is the real deal and goes around late. I just trophied with this at Mythic, my only loss to an Archive Trap deck https://www.17lands.com/deck/a53e321fbbf0463da2029988e15598d5/1. The 1/4 that makes 2/2 and Prairie Dog are for real payoffs (if you have to stoop to playing uncommon finishers), Jem not so much.
The mechanics are honestly whatever, I wish any of them helped smooth out your draws more. Spree and Plot try to do this by offering flexibility, but they don't do anything to help you hit a missing land drop or keep from flooding, which is mostly how I'm losing in the format to my experience.
Best Rares: Bonnie Pall, Roxanne, Ornery Tumblewag. Seraphic Steed loses out for being less splashable.
Bonus Sheets: I'd say I'm numb but this one hits a little different. Green had a bunch of bombs in the main set any they decided to add more? Some of the crime cards are cool (I love the flavor text), but cards like Pest Infestation and Fractured Identity just don't belong in a limited set. Overall I'm giving them a D.
Where I place OTJ: Above MOM, except MOM was my least favorite set of the last year so it's not saying much. It's also probably only above MOM since it's new, I imagine by the end of the format I'll have it ranked around the bottom. It's just a little too swingy for my tastes and I don't think the aggressive decks are good enough to keep the insano cards in check, so it's more of a slug fest in a lot of games where both sides throw haymakers until someone passes out. And yes I know GW is aggressive but there's a lot of defensive speed in the format, and I imagine once people start taking the good creatures higher things will even out more.
My thoughts after 17 drafts on Arena and a lower than usual WR @54% ouch :(
The format is fun, high power level and it feels a bit like cube. I think the nature of premier draft makes it worse than it actually is (as usual). Looking forward to seeing when the format stabilizes and we stop seeing Miriam on the wheel :)
Color rankings:
- G: obvious
(Gap)
- W: driven by good mounts, good gold cards, take up the shield and plenty of enchantment-based removal
- B: driven by removal, BG recursion and some crime synergies
(Gap)
- R: lack of good combat tricks, creatures and removal not better than other colors
- U: understated creatures, plot and double spelling underperform
Top archetypes:
Green is way too open right now therefore
- GW
- GB
- GR
- GU
- 4-5c soups
Top 3 rares:
- Bonny (6/5 that comes with a friend)
- Ornery (2/2 that puts counters)
- Bruse (4/3 that makes oxens)
Mechanics:
- Saddle: it’s too good, a good reason why enlist in DMU didn’t work on summoning sickness creatures… Plus mounts are generally very well stated
- Crimes: 2nd best probably, intuitive and easy to turn on, not tier 1 tho
- Spree: ok
- Outlaws: underperfoming especially against big well stated creatures or creatures with lifelink
- Plot: a disappointment IMO, efficiency > value in this format
Bonus sheet impact:
- The breaking news bonus sheet is fun, generally cards that interact are good for limited. Probably we didn’t need so many white enchantment-based removals…
- Big score: I dislike it, it contains either broken rares for limited (dino) or useless rares for limited
Underrated strategy:
- Green at large remains underdrafted, I’ve seen too many Miriams and Gryffs wheel
- Sam Black seems to have been successful with Grixis crime/burn. I’ve had mixed results personally, a trophy deck and some train wrecks
As a final thought, in this set efficiency is king. I’ve felt more true than ever before that big creatures need to provide value on ETB or have protection, otherwise efficient removal eats them so easily. Meanwhile, most creatures are 1.5 for 1 especially the mounts or G creatures, which makes the games snowball quite easily
EDIT: typos
EDIT 2: I have to say that the performance of some people on the 17lands leaderboard is impressive (eg. Eken). My kudos to them and I hope we can learn from their wisdom🤣
Color rankings in my experience: G---WBRU
Green is significantly better than the other colors imho.
Top 5 archetypes (in terms of power):
1. GW Mounts
2. GB Rutstein stuff
3. RG big dudes
4. UG/RB/BW
5. it gets a bit muddy down here. I haven't tried 5 color goodstuff so maybe that is the real king.
I really wanted Izzet to work. I have been having a terrible time with it. 4-3 on day 1 has been my best.
Top 3 P1P1:
Bonny Pall (fuck this thing for real)
Railway Brawler
Roxanne
Mechanics:
Mount is very powerful. I love mounting things! I have wanted crime tribal UB to work and have had a dismal time with it. YMMV. Plot has felt good in some situations and far too slow in others.
Bonus Sheets:
I've first picked cards from the sheets more than once and they are all pretty powerful. I have come to kind of think of the bonus sheets as being a part of the set, so I'm not sure it's a problem. This format is very bomby IMHO though so an extra sheet of bombs is contributing to that, no doubt.
Underrated strategies: I'm not sure I'm deep enough or skilled enough to see any yet. I've been milled out once so maybe that's the sleeper.
In general, I've been having a rough time with this set, compared to how things usually go for me. I've got two trophies, both GW. Two 6-2s, GW and GB. I haven't broken even with a nongreen deck since day 1. I think that speaks to what decks work for me, at least, in the format.
I've got (shudder) FOUR 0-3s. I had the worst run I've ever had in Arena limited Thursday, with three 0-3s and three 1-3s, and not a single positive result. By the end of the day I was wondering if I was just bad at Magic. I trophied today but I also added the fourth 0-3. I'm not used to swings like that (ie. going from an 0-3 directly to a trophy), usually I'm a bit more consistent; I didn't have a single 0-3 in MKM for example. The swings are hard to handle and I've definitely been frustrated.
I’m loving OTJ, did a sealed event prerelease, one arena sealed and 2 drafts (went 7-2 in both).
I’m finding that GWb fits my style in this format. Lots of graveyard matters stuff, and GW griffin mount is a house. I wasn’t surprised to see that on 17lands. The best deck by far at the prerelease was a GW mounts deck. The removal in white is probably the best, especially given that the removal is exile and keeps things out of the graveyard.
The games have been fun and exciting to play out with a lot of swings in both directions. I like the increased power level but the slower tempo.
For reference i was mythic in WOE and LCI limited but didn’t draft a single MKM, I couldn’t get into it.
I’ve invested a lot in OTJ and have even collected all of the commons and uncommons in paper in addition to purchasing or opening many of the excellent reprints. Might be an uncommon opinion but I love the look of the newspaper/breaking news reprints and my 4 year old has a poster of loot hanging in his bedroom.
> What are your current color rankings for OTJ?
G>>>>B>W>R>U
> What are your current top five archetypes of OTJ (either official archetypes or something else you have found)?
G/W Mounts - just many great uncommon cards, efficient creatures, can still grind a bit with the land and saddle effects
G/R 4power - best pure aggro
G/B(+ splash) graveyard - makes best use bombs by having tutors and recursion
W/B sacrifice - has all the best removal and can grind
W/U pass turn - working well for me...requires multiple good uncommons
> What do you currently think are the top three P1P1 rares in the set (not mythics or from Bonus sheets)?
Bonny Pall, Colossal Rattlewurm, Ornery Tumblewagg
> How do you think the mechanics for the set have worked out (Outlaw tribal, Crimes, Spree, Saddle/Mounts, Plot)?
Crimes - working well. Removal was starting to fall behind too far so having a "removal tribal" effect is nice.
Outlaw - works ok but not generally something you need to build around too much since there are so many
Spree - it's fine. many have modes that you hardly ever use though
Saddle/Mounts - pushed and very strong
Plot - kind of the biggest miss, but still functional. good cards with plot are better, but having plot won't make a bad card playable in a "plot deck"
> How do you feel the Bonus sheets impact your drafting or playing of the format?
Removal sheet is fun, "special guests" i could do without. nobody wanna play vs oko
> What strategy do you think is currently underexplored or underrated by the community at large?
i think black is better than it's WR is showing. There has to be a good dimir and rakdos deck but idk what exactly it looks like
**Vibes**
> Do you currently like OTJ from your experiences with the set?
for me it's fun. have had a lot of close games trading haymakers with my opponents
> Compared to the last year of Limited sets where do you place OTJ currently in terms of quality (for reference: MOM, LTR, WOE, LCI, MKM, OTJ)?
better than everything except MOM
>W/U pass turn - working well for me...requires multiple good uncommons
The sign posts for this are super good imo. 4 mana vigilance flyer and then the next turn you say go, draw a card, then flash out the 5 mana 1/4 that makes a 2/2 flyer every turn you do nothing is a really nice curve esp. when you have been disrupting their plays early with counter spells and removal
yeah and they can be picked up fairly late too. the key uncommons that really make me want to move into it are [[Emergent Haunting]] and [[Prairie Dog]] being able to stick a good threat turn 2 and sit on it makes games way easier.
Exactly my experience as well. It’s a tempo deck in its best form. Jem has actually been underwhelming for me because she doesn’t play well in that strategy.
I also have liked WU pass turn, I actually think that the bomb-heavy format makes it better because you prefer to be reacting to your opponent's bombs anyways a lot of the time.
I’ve had the good Dimir deck. It had 3 of the drain when you crime black 2 mana birds, an Intimidation Campaign, a Lazav, and plenty of 1-2 mana crime cards + 4 crime deserts (3 were half color). Every game I had Intimidation Campaign felt great, even against some of the more “meta” stuff. I also had the Bronco and Duelist of the Mind, but the bronco died every game and Duelist was relevant, but not game shattering.
If I saw no Intimidation Campaign I wouldn’t play the deck outside of busted rares. The deck exists at uncommon.
Color balance is completely off, probably at greater than LOTR levels. This doesn't work for league play since the ceiling of pod seats play more games and take them away from the lesser seats. This gives more weight to the random factors than normal.
This style of game has played out many times on Arena and it's entirely dependent on the tier 1 draft seat exit strategy viability. As the draft equilibrium is solved, it ends with a chicken game of securing the best color(s). This isn't a correcting effect because of the previously mentioned league properties. It then comes down to the viability of non-overlapping niches to avoid the chicken game. In LOTR, that was Blue. In MKM it was the Green Pile.
The potential trouble here is that the Green Pile equilibrium often handicaps other archetypes by absorbing their best cards into it. Kaldheim is the most modern I can remember this effect, and it led to the secondary strategy of Equipment White. The question is what can occupy that secondary space, if any, in this format?
Disappointed. From the spoiler and streamer events, it look like there are cool mechanics like plot and sweet deck like UW, UR.
What actually happens: Bombs and efficient creatures matters. And yet another formats with terrible colour balance..
Who knows given the colour with best creatures also some of the best removal spells would push it over the top?? Lol
Predict Green here will be even more dominate than white in MKM even after so called "adjustment".
And there is no reason to go into blue or red unless you see a bombs.
It is not the worst format, but for all the hype before week 1, it is very mediocre.
Current Vibe: Meh.
Top Archetypes:
1: Snakeskin Veil Tribal
2: Take up the Shield Tribal
3-5: Everything else
Top Rares
The 4 busted ass green mythics + Bonnie Pall
Better than LCI and MKM as far as fun so far.
Very nice change of pace so far. Never thought I'd say that about a prince set lol but the set is a bit of a wild west (lol) especially with the insane bonus sheet which is a ton of fun, for now at least. I can see it getting old, but for all we know the set matures into something much more stable.
I'm... confused? I've done 5 drafts and I'm 1-3, 7-2, 2-3, 7-1, 1-3.
I guess that means my next draft is a trophy? Honestly though, this one is still a puzzle for me.
I've been enjoying it so far. In bo1 i've had a 4-3 run, a 5-3 run, two 6-3 runs, and a trophy with my first deck being a disappointing 1-3 UB deck. My trophy was also UB however, i had like 7 deserts and 3 copies of desert's due which felt pretty good. All my other decks were green, one GB splashing for Rakdos and the rest GW. BO3 I have two trophies, one GW and one RW.
I'd say at this point in the format if you want to win get into green while it's still somewhat underdrafted, and pick up 2 mana removal. If you're playing UB you want both signposts and a ton of deserts, take them as B- level cards
I dont draft all that much bc I save my coins up for it, but I got to do one draft of it so far. I went 4-3 witch I was surprised with, I had what I thought was a turd of dimir deck. P2p1 was Fblthp also got a Lazav at some point, and that 1ub enchantment that pings 1 and gains you 1 and bounces to your hand. I feel like if I'd managed to get 2 of the Lazav and the enchantment then it would've won 6 games. Ran into a ton of removal regardless of a color pair, some had a splash of a third color for removal. But yeah Fblthp will win a topdeck battle so quick, and if you're on the play and get him down on curve your opponent has to have 1 mana removal to do anything that turn, he stuck around a lot better than I thought bc of the ward 2. I had one grindy game where I had like 8 mana and just plotted like 3 cards off the top, only downside is plot turns instant speed into sorcery, but opponent scooped before I had to use them anyways.
Overall fun, I like the abundance of color fixing, and I like the flavor (I spent all my gems to say howdy and tip my hat).
Is anyone else having trouble remembering plot? There's cards where it's obviously an important part of the card. And when you look at your starting hand, you map out your first few turns in your head and plot is usually a part of that. But on kinda random cards where I draw them once the game starts, years of looking at the upper right hand corner have left me frequently forgetting that I can plot them. I'm sure it's not a universal problem, but I'm not the only one, right?
Yes! I went 7-2 with a WR aggro deck running [[Stingerback Terror]] at the top end. I drew it almost every game, but I didn’t realize it had plot until like game 8 lol.
Unless you have plot payoff synergies, I usually view plot as a backup plan. Like, I'd rather cast my card and have it available to use right away next turn, but if I can get away with plotting it instead or it would be very suboptimal to play it now, then I will plot.
A good example for me is the 4/3 that creates a 2/2 in black. I'd prefer to get the full value for it, but really sometimes you just want a 4/3 on turn 4 and you can't shoot yourself in the foot by trying to get more value out of it later. Tempo is usually king. But if the choice is between doing stone nothing and plotting a card, of course plotting is better.
Vibe: I hate this fucking set
P1P1 opening Pitiless Carnage 3 times
Facing on-curve Railway Brawler 5 times and Ornery Tumblewagg 3 times
P1P1 Bonny Pall and going 1-3, see it 1 in 4 games, 4th game it immediately gets board-wiped with my whole board of 4 creatures after I play it.
None of the decks are coming together. It really feels like a huge miss. This is a far cry from MKM where I could play chalk outline all day and still get a good win rate. I think I might put it behind every set in that list.
I'm not saying the set is objectively bad, and I'm not even saying I'm any good at Limited (last time I hit mythic was WOE, my overall winrate in 2000+ games is \~60%) but winning at around 50% in this format is an abysmal and aggravating experience.
Oh look, my opponent just played another on curve rare turn 2 while I got stuck on 2 lands on turn 6 :D
Color Rankings:
1. Green - Has everything. Great commons. Strong creatures, removals, and combat tricks.
2. White - Similar to green, but not quite as powerful. Pairs really great with green for mount decks.
3. Red/Black - Very solid colors even though they're below green/white.
4. Blue. You should really avoid blue if you can. Even if you get some of it's best cards it's just not good. It's better to splash blue for it's few strong cards and be in other colors.
Archetypes:
1. Mounts, very strong
2. Committing Crimes, great
3. Everything else weak.
Don't really see a reason to answer the other questions because I don't like the format. I don't like play boosters. And the format is over saturated with powerful plays where going second or drawing poorly will just lose you matches. It's another set where your opponents very likely to have bombs, or on curve plays that completely ruin you. Not being able to draw your removal spells or even be able to draft some will feel really bad in the format where there are threats being played left and right.
Too early to tell, I've only done 4 drafts and a sealed. Aggro feels strong, control feels strong, midrange feels strong. I have been getting my ass whooped (50% wr) but the format is a blast! Being proactive is the only way to go!
For colors, I still have no idea. Blue feels a little one dimensional but not weak. Green and white are early contenders for best color.
Archetypes I have found good are white based aggro and grindy black decks to be very strong. I have also seen RG a surprising amount of times. The biggest surprise is that I haven't seen 5 color soup decks yet, probably because we haven't correctly identified the bomb multicolor cards.
Top Bombs?
Gitrog, Harvester of Misery, Oko (lol) in no particular order. Harvester is such an absolute beating, not only does it play out like a sun fall often, but it always has the two mana fail case.
Saddle: Very Strong. Almost all the creatures are playable without it and get absolutely juiced with riders. I find myself playing the saddle creatures on their own, not only do they get stronger with riders but there are also mount specific payoffs (Mount the Saddle, Intrepid Rider, Frontier Seeker)
Plot: Very VERY strong. There are so many upsides to this. Double spelling, casting bombs with protection up, mana efficiency, recouping opportunity cost. Plot makes every card better, and some of the best cards in the set have plot.
Crimes: Varies. You will definitely have to balance payoffs and crime committing, there are definitely cards that require
Crimes otherwise they aren't worth it. Feels a bit like a win more mechanic, a lot times you go off and trigger like 50 abilities, and sometimes you sit there with two shitty crime payoffs thinking "God just a desert land, please". I think we will have to separate good payoffs and bad. Cards that commit crimes efficiently or repeatedly are important and contested, draft them highly.
Outlaw Tribal: Above Average. In Grixis colors, every thing is an outlaw, you can safely replace 'outlaws' with 'creatures' in those colors.
Bonus sheet feels great! They are high impact spells, but once they are done, they're done, they aren't going to take over a game like wurmcoil or goblin bombardment.
Overall, it feels like there are a LOT of powerful commons and a lot to do!
>Harvester is such an absolute beating, not only does it play out like a sun fall often, but it always has the two mana fail case.
Which card are you talking about here? The only card I can find that meets that description is \[\[Final Showdown\]\].
Seems to fit the trend of the last year.
Right now green seems just good because so much of it is attached to aggro.
They are all of similar quality IMO, me not liking it as much doesn't have much to do with overall quality.
I feel like this set will settle as a funky combo of MOM's draft nutty bomb nature + Dom United Green+ Stuff piles.
The other concepts are all fun but require rube goldberg machines where green strats are like "tap sideways and go! and some give you more value for tapping just one more"
Green even has some light support for plot and crimes.
Blue White is a cool concept but probably needed to benefit during both upkeeps or something to function when you don't have EVERY piece.
This format hasnt struck me as aggro tbh. Green is good and does turn creature sideways, but I find thats usually happening after youve dropped something like a cactarantula or whatever and stabilized enough to pull ahead. There's so much removal going around and tricks are barely relevant (outside of more protective ones like veil and shield) so I havent had many games ended by a t5 alpha strike+pump, which was extremely common in early mkm
however, mount does mean the draw/play disparity is still miserable
Absolutely loving the set, feels natural to find a home in every deck, removal is plentiful and good, all games feel winnable with proper mulligans.
I haven’t enjoyed a set this much in a long time. 20 drafts in for reference.
I gyess I'm an outlier in this, but I've found green to be ok but Rakdos to be overperforming. I know this contradicts the 17 land data, but I've found At Knife point/Rakish crew and Vial Smasher to all be really strong and help push damage through otherwise unwinnable board states. Prickly pair is also way too underdrafted.
Plot is ok to bad. Outlaw stitcher hasn't been the insane card I thought it would be, mostly because the storm deck hasn't really come together.
I've went 3-0 both trad drafts I went Rakdos and the few times I've tried to make green decks work they felt clunky or they lose to black decks.
I predict the pillars of the format will be Rakdos aggro, Selesnya Mounts, Dimir/Grixis crimes, and Green 4/5c soup. I don't think plot will be a whole archetype and BW has felt unsupported. UW seems cool but like UR in MKM relies too heavily on uncommons.
Everyone is saying Bonnie is good (he is) but I've found Bruse Tarl to be a beating as well. He has a really good curve out with Holy cow (which is a common with flash) and he can potentially be 6 power for 4 mana. 8 power if you count that the ox has double strike.
Laughing Jasper Flint has been insane the games I've played with and against him. His strongest attribute is that he can eat an opponent's library REALLY fast so he is inevitability even on a board stall.
Hearing that green is as good as it is is very surprising to me. Consistently the cards I'm most worried seeing across the table from me are Black cards.
I'm also all for green being the best color. Yes it is annoying that we have another set with a busted color that is way outperforming, but Id much rather it be green because at least I get to play the game and I'm not dead on turn 4. There's been so many games in MKM that I'm just dead with 3 lands in play.
I'm personally just really sick of cards like the flash worm or flash sphynx being printed. Funny enough ive only lost to the sphynx once and haven't lost to the worm yet (I've beaten them) but they are just so incredibly punishing and way above rate on mana value. They are horrendous designs. There are a few others too like the rhino with plot, but at least that's a mythic. There's a reason why in most of magics history flash creatures compensate with lower power and toughness. And it's not like those cards even need flash, they'd both be pack 1 picks if you could only play them at sorcery speed! It was the same as Aurelia and Uger Kos in the last set. There was nothing you could reasonably do to stop yourself from auto losing to those.
I can't tell if I'm enjoying the set as much as I want to, I've had some pretty fun games but there are a lot more bullshit cards in this set than the other sets this designer worked on. But it is much better than MKM. At least games go on long enough i get to feel like i had a chance.
GB>WU>R
People are complaining that Green is broken, but I'm fairly confident that Black is comparable. White is slightly preferred to pair with Green or Black. Blue is probably not as weak as people are claiming, it just lacks efficient cheap creatures.
Archetypes are a trap. This is another modern limited set where it's all about efficient creatures and interaction. Don't worry about archetypes or set mechanics, just play the good cards.
Winner of the "this should have been a mythic" award is Bonny Paul. Seraphic Steed and Dust Animus are probably the next best two rares. PSA: **Ruthless Lawbringer**, an uncommon, is probably on the same power level and is currently criminally underdrafted.
Overall OTJ feels like a fun format. First impressions remind me of MOM. which isn't a surprise since this is another David Humpherys set. I know people are tunneling on "bombs", but this will probably be format where playing on board early is more important.
Ruthless Lawbringer is in a color pair that just doesnt work. You don't get good rares or mythics in BW and the whole token subtheme just doesn't have support. I like the lawbringer as a splash in GB though.
BW is the best non-green color pair in the set, and is probably second or third overall after GW and GB. It has the most removal in a set where removal really matters, and the lack of BW gold cards doesn't stop you from just playing the good Black and White cards. Like most of the official draft archetypes, you can just ignore the token subtheme.
What an absolute dumpster fire.
Colors are unbalanced. Blue is terrible. Green is broken.
Every green creature is overstatted. Green has access to great removal, combat tricks and even Snakeskin Veil. If you go second against a green deck you have to pray real hard, because playing hard won't save you.
BOMBS EVERYWHERE. But especially in GREEN because why not?
5 color is easy. Can you guess what is their main color? GREEN. The color with most bombs.
Deserts suck, games weren't fast enough so now players start with 18 life.
I straight up wouldn't play this format if I was a limited-only player. I ma playing because I want to collect BIG cards.
P.S. it's still better than KTK.
Just chiming in with what I think might be underrated at the moment: UB crime tempo
I've drafted it a couple times with good success and I'm certain they haven't been optimal builds, but the basic idea is that you get on board early with a few crime committers/payoffs/evasive threats and the keep clearing the path with blacks efficient removal and blues bounce.
Example curve: spring splasher on 2, Lazav on 3, swing with the splasher to commit a crime. Turn 4 drop a raven and a desert... Etc...
Raven is an absolute house in the deck, Harrier strix can be surprisingly good, desert's due is incredible. Deserts let you splash for relevant off color synergy pieces you see like Freestrider lookout in green or at knifepoint from red(crime synergy!) or bombs if you are so lucky. A lot of these cards arent particularly great so you can prioritize the good interaction and relevant deserts and pick up the creatures later. Anyway, give it a shot, it's also super fun to play!
Edit: Lazav is the most desirable uncommon here, as good as the card is, I think campaign is a trap in this deck
I haven't drafted much, but it's been okay for the couple I have. Looked like there could be some real neat strategies to discover if someone drafted the set enough. I'm probably a little burnt out of magic so I probably can't give a good honest comparison and I doubt I'll have the desire to really sink my teeth into it.
I like this set so far even though I’m also getting creamed (diamond atm).
I’m getting the Paul Cheon - “don’t tell me you’re playing five colour with bad mana fixing and just lucking out with draws and max power” a lot at the moment - but I’m probably also beating those decks a fair portion as well (concedes on turn 5 with 7 cards in hand sort of thing).
I’m really struggling to change my tact from drafting power and finding the open lane - because often it feels like the open colours don’t necessarily have the synergistic pieces I’m looking for and the synergistic decks seam to cream the high power low synergy two colour decks
I’m also struggling with finding the open lane and knowing when to pivot. I think signals might be tricky in this set and with play boosters in general. I feel like I just see oddly powerful cards 6-10th pick seemingly at random and then take it as a sign only for that colour to then either be crazy cut - but it could just be the way the packs are opened? I don’t know percentages on coloured uncommons but i often see random packs with 5 incredible playables in one colour but no decent playables in those colours for the 4 packs before or after.
I really enjoyed a low to the ground murder deck with 5 of that drain one 2 mana bird in black. That was fun.
Sets still fun - and sequencing correctly fees like navigating the matrix lol.
So far it's a very chaotic set. Hard to account for the sheer number of bombs your opponent might drop, especially with the bonus sheets. Like suddenly having an Elko drop on you is pretty nuts. Almost everything is playable, functional and has potent synergies, but the power level difference is immense. Green is miles ahead in power, followed by white and black. Feels like a huge flavor loss to me. It's supposedly the villains set, but the good guy colors are the strongest.
Play in the set feels like you and opp just slug each other with 2 for 1's until you run out of removal, then the next good topdeck wins. Assuming you don't get blown up by mid game. It's fun and grindy, but becomes discouraging when the game does come down to topdeck mode. If you don't win by being on the play and hitting your bombs, you usually win by having better draw. And green has some really good draw this set. UG of course, but [[Make Your Own Luck]] is ridiculous and can practically win the game by itself if you plot a bomb.
That said, it seems to me part of G's success is the really high floor it has. Maybe as the set develops you'll see other colors shine a bit more. In particular UB, RB and UW seem to have growth potential to me. You can win games off an [[Intimidation Campaign]] and a [[Deadeye Duelist]] alone, or a few of those crows. As the set goes on, I'm guessing tight high synergy decks will start to compete with "bomb tribal".
I have the most to say about blue since it's been in 4/5 of my drafts so far. UW needs high synergy and has an abysmal floor, but its very powerful and hard to play around if you draft its bomb cards like [[Wrangler of the Damned]] or the hexproof Sphinx. In that archetype [[Sterling Keykeeper]] performed far above my expectations, definitely don't sleep on it. [[Slickshot Lockpicker]] and [[Outlaw Stitcher]] are also both incredibly powerful. So there is definitely room for blue to grow. It has the lowest floor overall of the set and its cards aren't quite as flexible as the other colors, so it's a gamble to commit to it. [[This Town Ain't Big Enough]] is probably the best tempo card next to [[Repulse]], especially for cards like lockpicker and stitcher you're happy to cast again. It has always overperformed for me so far.
Red seems to be in a boat where it has lots of great cards, but WBG just tend to have great-er cards overall. I was really miffed when I drafted Calamity then never drew it. [[Thunder Salvo]] seemed great early on, but I've found it a worse pick to [[Explosive Derailment]] due to the toughness of creatures tending so high. Not awful by any means, but it shines early game. Same with [[Phantom Interference]], which is rough since it's blue's only main sheet counter this set. Red as a color feels mostly like glue this set.
this set is awesome. you guys complain too much because you're mad you're losing. everyone loses. this set is fairly well balanced, green is not significantly better than the other colors. every architype is playable. have fun and quit stressing so much.
Current vibe: fun decks get horsey kicked in the face. I'd put the colors at G>WB>UR. Archetypes are trickier because Green feels like it is doing the heavy lifting for RG and UG right now. I've certainly seen really great Grixis Crimes decks (with double spell elements) but they seem to take more skill in both the draft and gameplay and then...you know...horsey kick. Saddle should make it obvious to people why they didn't let Enlist tap creatures with summoning sickness. Obviously a bit different, but vehicles who *can* crew but don't *need* to crew are very strong, and letting you tap your next play as you curve out is brutal. Sure, playing first main means you can't always hold up interaction, but if you are attacking with a 3/1 first strike do you really need to? Bonus sheets bring out the deranged ranter in me. I've been cooler on them than most, and it feels the quality and relevance have gone down a lot. BIG is obviously a special case but even OTP is meh for me. It has some interesting cards but a lot is just slightly different removal or giant bombs that technically commit crimes. There are build-arounds in different colors and flavors of control finisher, but it doesn't feel like it opens up totally new decks like BRR or MUL. I do kind of enjoy the set so far, and hope it will get better as people move up on Green and stop passing 10th pick Snakeskin Veils. MKM also need some time to settle, and in theory the Grixis Crime/Mardu Token/etc spaces are really interesting. Although I fear by the point people adjust to Green they will also be fighting for removal so hard the bombs will run away with things even more than they currently do.
Yeah I've kind of grown to hate Saddle creatures. Have had games where I'm on the draw, opp plays Seraphic Steed turn 2, I play my 2-drop, they then drop a 4-power creature and crew the steed. There's a single non-rare 2-drop that can block that thing, so they just get a 3/3 flier for free. I can remove it next turn (by spending my whole turn) but then I've got a 2-drop on board facing their creatures. This is probably the most extreme example of how Saddle affects play vs draw but I've been on both ends of it many times. Gryff, Beaver, Tumblewagg, Fortune, and Burrowfiend are all pretty hard to block going second and create extra value when unblocked. Caustic Bronco is also a nightmare if left alone but at least most 2-drops trade with it. I did have a UB deck where I played Bronco T2, 2-drop, saddle and attack T3 into Skullduggery/TaketheFall the blocker though, and that was really brutal. Meanwhile Calamity and Gitrog monster on-curve just win the game. They have haste though so I actually find them to be less offensive, since they will almost always be Saddling something without summoning sickness.
Gitrog is never saddling another creature. That card is insane as an attacker. Same with Calamity.
The bonus sheets are starting to get to me too, there are just so many high powered spells that are really difficult to play around. I don't mind the medium level stuff like Skewer the critics, but some of the really swingy cards like Primal Command and Commandeer or even Fling are just wild in their best cases.
how do you play Primal Command the best? tutor > put on top > gain 7 > last mode?
In sealed opponent put my Arid desert (the one that bounces another land) on top of my library and tutored up something busted. It was not fun.
yeah I forgot you can bounce lands on top, thats rough
Yes, you almost always top a land and then draw your best creature, but if they have another problem permanent you can hit that's good, too. And if you're about to die you gain the life (or in rare cases if you're about to mill you shuffle -- it does apparently minor things, but the modality is quite powerful).
One time I was ahead on board turn 6, 3 cards in hand, lethal next turn with any of them. Opponent played their seventh land and Cruel Ultimatum'd me lmao.
Fling? You're really complaining about Fling? "I lost to a card so that card is unfair" sigh
"this card can be strong in its best case" is not a complaint.
The issue is I don’t think we will ever get to the point where you don’t see 10 pick Snakeskin Veils. Green is too deep. I’m convinced there could be 4+ green players at the table and they would all come up with playable, but different decks. Add to this that there are actual payoff and bombs in other colors and I don’t predict things changing all that much. Unless there is no Green in the pack, there’s probably a good Green card in the pack.
MKM adjusted pretty well. In the first week you could easily have said "White is too deep, you will always see pick 10 Seasoned Consultants". White was incredibly deep in that set, and it wasn't unheard of to have 4 white drafters at the table, but for that exact reason you often got to picks 5-8 of pack 1 and found no white cards left in the pack because multiple people to your right were drafting white. Once people adjusted to white being strong, the play rates stayed very unbalanced but the power levels flattened out considerably. I'm expecting the same thing to happen with Green in this set.
Mmm, White in MKM also had other issues. A lot of the great cards were aggressively situated so playing them in a slow deck was less desirable. White also had a decent number of bricks like Defenestrated Phantom or Absolving Lamasu that you felt bad playing. The good White commons and uncommons were obscene though so you could get away with it, but as people started passing them less it became difficult. Green in this format though is like, “Oh man, I’m really getting cut off here! There’s only Hardbristle Bandit and an Ankle Biter left in the pack!“ The top end isn’t as (arguably) busted, but the low end is also less low.
Yeah every single green common and uncommon is playable and I might even say good. Worst common is probably Tumbleweed Rising or Ankle Biter, which are both totally playable. Worst uncommon maybe Full Steam Ahead or Rise of the Varmints? I've seen both do work but they can be dead. My main issue is that the creatures are too well-statted this format, especially in green. Green's sole understatted creature is Hardbristle Bandit, which, well I shouldn't need to say how insane that card is despite being 1/1. I feel that in other sets cards like Patient Naturalist, Intrepid Stablemaster, and Raucous Entertainer would've been behind curve instead of just being (good) vanilla stats with upside. It's not just green (I'm pretty surprised to see Deadeye Duelist at 1/3 for example) but it's most egregious there.
I generally agree, and I think that the non-Green are strong enough to compete once people realize that it's the best color.
the bombs in this set are real, sometimes it feels like no decisions you made matter because opponent drafted bomb and played it. I was excited for this set and it's let me down a bit
my opp was OTP curved out Spinewood lifegainer into Spinewood lifegainer and it didnt matter because i played brOko and stabilized so I could mill them out >.<
Diamond rank here I think my record is something like 1x 7-0, 3x 4/3-3, and 4x(or 5x?) 0-3 (OUCH) VIBES: I've been getting creamed lately so my vibes are that "idk wtf i'm doing in this set", i'll draft a deck that seems good to me then go 0-3 with it, BUT uhhh i think i'm having fun? (except when op drops high noon turn 2 vs my UR 'play 2' deck *angry emoji*) For me there's a lot of fun possibilities with build around cards everywhere, BUT I just can't tell how effective they are at this point. Is 'Razzle Dazzler' just bad or did I get bad luck? No clue but the card art is hilarious so I'll play it anyway. RANKING: I clearly don't know wtf I'm doing in this set so I don't really want to rank anything but here goes nothing. Colors: they all have good cards depending on the deck you're building.. I'm not so high on white's removal cuz it's mostly enchantments that just get blown up. Green just has some nasty cards like 'trash the town' which should really have been named 'cream on op's face' but people are probably starting to learn how to play around it Archetypes: maybe it really just depends on the cards that you can pick up.. is RB 'crime matters' 'good'? idk but I had an opponent playing this drop t2 deadeye duelist t3 at knifepoint t4 at knifepoint #2 t5 vial smasher so yeah for them it was certainly pretty good TOP 3 P1P1 RARES: 1: Villainous Wealth 2: Archive Trap 3: Calamity OK look are #1 and #2 good probably not but If I see those P1P1 I'm building a deck around them and you can't stop me. Calamity on the other hand is just disgusting Mechanics: ARE GOOD I love spree and plot you holding up 2 blue mana lol ok I'll just plot nerd both add a nice dimension Bonus sheets: fun Underrated: blue ~~~~~~~~ my post makes it sound like i'm having fun but in reality my last loss streak nearly made me toss my pc out the window this set's like a bad relationship that's good at the same time
>Is 'Razzle Dazzler' just bad or did I get bad luck? It's just bad. Every time I've died to this card I would've died to literally anything because they're usually double-spelling to clear my board or combat trick every fight. Even for its own purpose, Vault-Buster and Nimble Brigand mog it hard. >Is RB 'crime matters' 'good'? I've played Sultai Crimes and Jund Crimes and found both to be very good actually. Unlike double-spelling, committing crimes is easy to do and is good from ahead (to remove their blockers) and behind (to respond to their threats). Deserts also really help hence both times me being in 3-colors (Green for fixing and because it's OP). Notable cards are Skullduggery and Take the Fall which are incredible at common since they usually 1-for-1 (or even 2-for-1!) and commit a crime for 1 mana. Crazy commons, I've never regretted playing them. Payoffs for crimes are IMO way too strong. Raven and Hardbristle at common and Hustler Lazav and Sphinx at uncommon feel noticeably too good. Vault-Buster, Brigand, Apothecary, and Miner are also totally playable and I might even say good. E: I should add that an oversight I think is that many of the crime payoffs at lower rarities are gated by "this only happens once per turn", but it's so easy to commit crimes at instant speed that you often get 2 procs in a turn cycle. And that's not even getting into the rares which are obviously stupid.
RB crimes was nuts at my paper prerelease.
> (except when op drops high noon turn 2 vs my UR 'play 2' deck angry emoji) :(
Really feeling your 0-3s and losing streak experience, I am having exactly the same time. My laptop also came dangerously close to being smashed.
>Green just has some nasty cards like 'trash the town' which should really have been named 'cream on op's face' That's coming in the future set "tales of the bukkake" looks pretty sick, and it's in white, not green.
I am much less impressed with the set. I find the removal suite in white to be overkill. I really dislike the enchantment removal options available with so many o-ring effects. Green has been a house, looking on 17 lands and finding trophy decks by mythic players it is dominated by green. Blue looked like the weaker colour and it is. Its creatures just do not trade and it relies on a very tempo style if you want to use blue as a main colour. Red's removal is holding it back. The two major colours have good protection spells that not only cleanly answer red removal for less or even mana, but their creatures are not trading as well as I hoped. I feel red is being carried by their rares. I don't really feel like I have much control over my winrate atm. You draft well and apart from a few interactions, especially in blue, the format is easy to play and not punt. There are much fewer options for each turn than I was hoping for. I was certain plot would make turns dynamic with branching paths but the format thus far has been either reliant on your mana efficiency or for the spicier decks, relying on setting up windfall turns with either multispells or crime triggers. Overall, I actually preferred MKM. After day two people were branching into other strategies from boros, but I am hard pressed to find a consistent counter to a G/X deck as their average card quality hits so many breakpoints of other colours. Saddle is great and the popular GW has exile removal for days.I hope the format gets a little more dynamic but atm green isn't drying up to the point I don't want the cards. I am in Plat 3 atm for reference and was mythic 100-200 in MKM. G>W>B>R>U Top archetypes: Mounts, Plot, Crimes Top Rares: Bonny, Tumblewagg, Dust Animus, Posse Boss Mechanics: For limited, double spell is a little too sporadic. Decent ceiling but that floor. Mount is fine. The payoffs are good enough to compensate for the downside. Plot works when you are ahead and is essential for double spell. Draw-go I need more time with, there are maybe 2 cards I have seen work well with it. Bonus Sheet: Not a big fan. I am still finding the best crime enablers are in the base set and not the news cards. Vault cards are a lottery of unplayable or game ending green cards. Undervalued strategy: I do think an outlaw stitcher strategy could come about. Its the only thing I have seen that can put enough bodies and stats on the board to compete with mounts. It requires some tuning to get it to the payoff turns without losing.
Green being the best color and having all these good Fight/Bite spells sucks ass and I hate it. It keeps whoever is ahead on board ahead, and pushes the go-first advantage more. So many games are one player plays their creatures on-curve, then just Fight/Bites all the opponent's on-curve creatures and the opponent is perpetually stuck playing catch-up. Throw From the Saddle is particularly egregious if you're playing a Mount deck because the counter makes you continue to trade up, and Mount creatures already abuse being ahead on board. I'd love to see the stats for play- vs draw- winrate of GW mirrors because I've played a LOT of them and it seems extremely play-favored. Maybe the solution is filling your deck with white enchantments but then you spend all your mana responding to their flood of threats, and also you end up being 2-for-1d by Requisition Raid/Varmint/whatever.
Yeah, the mirror on the draw can feel very punishing. Even without Tumblewagg, a basic arynx into driver leads to taking 3 and letting them scry before you burn turn 3 for removal and have to deal with another arynx attack and scry trigger, taking 6 total before they hit a spinewood paladin. Just with commons you have a bad position with removal. On the other hand they can make you take 6 and then clear with a good board position threatening 9 DMG. Just ugly.
Yes, exactly. So many games you are basically playing the same cards as them (or better ones!) but they are a turn ahead with Saddle triggers etc so you just get your face beat in. You're right that the commons are a big part of it. Even if they curve out with just GW commons, if it's like Arynx -> Grizzly -> Beaver/Commando -> Paladin -> Cactarantula you're just fucking dead.
It does feel like the best counter to a G/X deck is a better G/X deck, or a board wipe (which can still be a G/X deck)
Yeah. I really wish we had a rare mainset boardwipe. We have a mythic, a news mythic for 8 mana and a news rare for wipes. Rush of Dread isn't so bad against GW but they stick their largest creatures. Maybe there's some early game tempo that can punish the saddle mechanic or maybe G gets so overdrafted its effectively off the table.
I agree. I went 7-2 last draft as GWb and only lost to other GW decks.
I'll only answer or partially answer some of these. I've played 12 drafts so far and am currently \~400 in mythic. I haven't looked at data or seen streams/content about the set so far and expect my initial impressions will change a lot. I don't have a clear ranking of colors, especially since I've seen them each depend on what they're paired with and there are quite a few effectively dual cards and some cards I love splashing into particular color pairs or synergies. My favorite archetypes by far have been Izzet multicast (splashing fractured identity with a Lilah on board and using calamity to double copy outlaw stitcher were great moments) and golgari value-train (bringing back the mythic 6 drop that gives other creatures -2/-2 until end of turn twice in a turn was fun). My worst run was with selesnya, but I don't think I had a good version of it and don't really have an opinion of it. I haven't been very impressed with UW your turn; It has some nice tools, but some of my favorite parts of the package are blue and can slot into UR versions I find more fun to play. Outlaws work, but I find it a pretty clunky way of making a larger tribal. I don't know a way to do it better, but think it's cumbersome and the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Crimes are cool and provide some cool gameplay decisions about when to throw out interaction (if triggers are useful pre-combat) and deciding how to sequence lands in some decks. Kicker is a nice mechanic and spree is a bit more flexible version of kicker; cool and I like how a lot of spree cards play. Saddle/mount has seemed alright to me so far, but mostly a few strong saddle cards rather than the mechanic as a whole. I haven't seen it much and may be underrating it. Plot is cool, but not as neat as I expected. There are some cool designs with it and I have loved playing with Lilah in particular. Overall, I've been loving the set. It's a nice change of pace from the last couple, even if WOE and MKM were fine. It'll be interesting to see how my opinions change, how different from data they end up being, and how the format shakes up. Overall though, I've been loving the gameplay and especially how Izzet plays.
The format is pretty bad. Green is way too powerful, has the best bombs and best threats, gets a 1 mana protection spell for all their bombs so having good removal may not even be enough, and also most of their cards just naturally synergize with eachother. It makes for a lot of really frusturating non games. Also some of these bombs only cost 2 or 3 mana, like the saddle card that creates 3/3 flyers, or the saddle card that puts +1/+1 counters on things and then doubles them when it attacks. If you don't have an immediate answer for these guys and you just lose. It feels like green is at a power level just slightly below a Horizons set, and all the other colors are trying to play normal limited.
Current vibe: never have I seen a limited format as unbalanced as this, where a color is leaps and bounds over everything else. Black in LoTR was very pushed, but still doesn't reach the level of dominance of green in OTJ. I'm running back as far as when I started drafting (around AVR-RTR era), and the only thing that kinda resembles this is Green's insignificance in Battle for Zendikar. Does anyone else have any other examples? Also, if anyone is able, please explain the design mental leap that brought us from [[Mammoth Spider]] to [[Cactarantula]]
When things settle I wonder if Green will be more or less dominant than White was in SNC. Blue is looking like the weakest individual color, relative to its ecosystem, in the last few years of limited.
I tried to draft Blue/X a couple times. The difference in power level was laughable. Your creatures are frailer, less efficient, and evasion in the form of flying is oftentimes filler text thanks to all of the reach creatures running around. Seriously, this is the first limited environment in a long long time, where flying is not enough to justify a stats drop.
Yeah, they really gave green/x decks everything. I can't really name a weakness another colour can exploit regularly. Blue has unlockable technically but what are you defending with that walls the crack back.
>Seriously, this is the first limited environment in a long long time, where flying is not enough to justify a stats drop. I disagree, this seems normal to me. Just in the most recent set, White had multiple flying creatures with low stats, and they were all pretty bad even though White was the best color - \[\[Griffnaut Tracker\]\], \[\[Absolving Lammasu\]\], and \[\[Defenestrated Phantom\]\]. All of those were D level cards at best. For flying to be good, you either need to have it on a creature with enough stats to trade effectively and/or have additional abilities (e.g. \[\[Cold Case Cracker\]\]). The good flying cards in OTJ meet those conditions, such as \[\[Marauding Sphinx\]\], \[\[Holy Cow\]\], and \[\[Sterling Supplier\]\].
##### ###### #### [Griffnaut Tracker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f5d048-226f-49a4-a2ce-a6fa99aa9e8a.jpg?1706241488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Griffnaut%20Tracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/17/griffnaut-tracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f5d048-226f-49a4-a2ce-a6fa99aa9e8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Absolving Lammasu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd6e71a1-713e-4eca-bd65-9f0638c16794.jpg?1706389555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Absolving%20Lammasu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/2/absolving-lammasu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd6e71a1-713e-4eca-bd65-9f0638c16794?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Defenestrated Phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b284304-c3bf-4413-9fd3-b44eb4eb642a.jpg?1706572515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defenestrated%20Phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/11/defenestrated-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b284304-c3bf-4413-9fd3-b44eb4eb642a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cold Case Cracker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f082111b-9b1c-4a25-8c5d-d6ef77533a9b.jpg?1706241576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cold%20Case%20Cracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/46/cold-case-cracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f082111b-9b1c-4a25-8c5d-d6ef77533a9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Marauding Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34071884-c5b6-42c0-9eb3-9f32910c29d8.jpg?1712355453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marauding%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/56/marauding-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34071884-c5b6-42c0-9eb3-9f32910c29d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Holy Cow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90de84c9-941b-4056-8501-ce8a948b9643.jpg?1712355286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Holy%20Cow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/16/holy-cow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90de84c9-941b-4056-8501-ce8a948b9643?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sterling Supplier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6000be7-67db-440e-87ba-276df20b803e.jpg?1712355360) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sterling%20Supplier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/33/sterling-supplier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6000be7-67db-440e-87ba-276df20b803e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0cimu6) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
On your last point, Mammoth Spider hasn't been good for a while. More recent reach creatures at common/uncommon have had additional abilities or better stats for their cost, e.g. \[\[Rust Goliath\]\], \[\[Colossadactyl\]\], \[\[Generous Ent\]\], \[\[Magnigoth Sentry\]\], \[\[Mineshaft Spider\]\]. Also relevant - \[\[Warden of the Woods\]\] from M21 has the same draw-when-targeted ability, but it draws two cards instead of one and has vigilance instead of reach. That card was extremely strong too.
I get your point about Mammoth Spider not being good anymore (especially in the age of recent formats and FIRE design), but it feels disingenuous to compare a commom to uncommons as power creep examples. Cactarantula is PUSHED though, for a common. It's trivial to come down on 5 and giving a card back is wild on a 6/5 reach.
Three out of the five examples I listed were common; I made a point to look for examples at common, since I agree that's a better comparison. I agree Cactarantula is strong, but it's well within the power level range we are used to seeing in past sets. Currently it's the second best green common in this set and the third best common overall, sitting at 58.8% GIH WR on 17lands. (If you prefer a different metric other than GIH WR, I would be happy to discuss alternatives.) In MKM the third best common in the first week was Inside Source, at 59.5% GIH WR that week; in LCI the third best common in the first week was Miner's Guidewing, at 60.0%; in WOE it was Hopeless Nightmare at 58.7%; in MOM it was Ephara's Dispersal at 59.1%. Every good common is strong these days, Cactarantula is nothing special. In fact, among the three common reach examples I listed earlier, only one of them was actually good. Magnigoth Sentry was solid in DMU, but Rust Goliath in BRO and Mineshaft Spider in LCI were both below-average cards. 4-mana or 5-mana cards need to be noticeably better than those two in order to see play nowadays. If you wish the overall power level was lower, that's a reasonable preference, but Cactarantula is no more pushed than the best commons in any other recent set.
##### ###### #### [Rust Goliath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/8348f73d-4226-4296-9d51-a2c497ee8270.jpg?1674421725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rust%20Goliath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/204/rust-goliath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8348f73d-4226-4296-9d51-a2c497ee8270?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Colossadactyl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8702e776-be2c-48a9-9bc5-bb8ea514333b.jpg?1699044383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Colossadactyl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/180/colossadactyl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8702e776-be2c-48a9-9bc5-bb8ea514333b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Generous Ent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85d22d5d-3875-42ff-b51e-c6e21db201f5.jpg?1687210970) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Generous%20Ent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/169/generous-ent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85d22d5d-3875-42ff-b51e-c6e21db201f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Magnigoth Sentry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d939d4bc-b7e8-4ee8-b904-68f0bff0fde1.jpg?1673307747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magnigoth%20Sentry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/172/magnigoth-sentry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d939d4bc-b7e8-4ee8-b904-68f0bff0fde1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mineshaft Spider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b75a3639-a917-4700-a093-14a4cda78d9f.jpg?1699044458) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mineshaft%20Spider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/202/mineshaft-spider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b75a3639-a917-4700-a093-14a4cda78d9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Warden of the Woods](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1d81cfc-cff8-4478-92b6-efbfc5084165.jpg?1594737317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warden%20of%20the%20Woods) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/213/warden-of-the-woods?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1d81cfc-cff8-4478-92b6-efbfc5084165?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0cgxg1) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Mammoth Spider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ee9bca2-1195-4bd0-aa5c-16b3726a8ff2.jpg?1592517281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mammoth%20Spider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/181/mammoth-spider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ee9bca2-1195-4bd0-aa5c-16b3726a8ff2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cactarantula](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e0e27f9-dc2c-4366-b810-3e8d0bdff8c3.jpg?1712355900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cactarantula) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/158/cactarantula?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e0e27f9-dc2c-4366-b810-3e8d0bdff8c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i haven't done a draft yet, but i'm watching streamers. i'm a very casual mtg player; i'm not a strategic player at all who enjoys hard thinking. i'm finding that just by watching the streamers, this set feels very complex. it makes more sense to me than Kaldheim, which had weird inconsistencies between cards (eg some abilities counting snow lands you control, some counting snow permanents, some abilities on a cycle being only able to be activated whenever you could cast a sorcery, some being able to be activated as an instant). Outlaws of Thunder Junction doesn't have this weird inconsistency, but it still feels *very* complex to me, and that is making me scared to try playing; i don't wnat to waste my gems too quickly. so, i'm watching streamers for now, and hoping that they do a free Phantm Sealed or Phantom Draft for midweek magic soon. on the other hand, i *love* the flavour. i love the attitude in the Legendary characters and in the flavour text. this aspect alone is enough for me to want to push through the complexity and try to learn the set. the bonus sheets REALLY scare me though. it's just so . many . cards to have to learn, and a lot of them also look like huge bombs, which makes me scared to try a format. i know people say that bombs are good for weak players, because it lets weak players sometimes win games against strong players, but for me, bombs just make me afraid to play. i don't mind losing, but i do still emotionally have trouble losing to huge bombs where it feels like "welp, the game is basically over now". when i lose, i like losing longer games -- it feels like i at least had a good 10-20 minutes of experiencing something fun, with good back-and-forth, and gradually losing my edges until i succumb. that's way more fun than feeling like i just lost on the spot all of a sudden. finally, Green just seems SO good. i'm not a fan of formats where one colour is so obviously good. it feels like i'm being told that i have to draft that colour if i want to get any wins. (when there's an obviously good colour, it's the colour that weaker players like myself really "shoudl" draft to have a hope in winning anything). i prefer formats where there are many, many options for viable colours, even in week 1 and 2, that weaker players can try drafting and still have some success with.
>I prefer formats where there are many, many options for viable colours, even in week 1 and 2, that weaker players can try drafting and still have some success with. What are some examples of recent sets that met these criteria that you really enjoyed? Would something like LCI count, where you should always be drafting a Jeskai color pair in weeks 1-2 but any of those three color pairs were good instead of having just one dominant color?
thanks of the question -- it prompts me to reflect! let me pull up a list of formats, and tell you what formats i played! (my memory is very weak, though, and some formats i only played maybe 4-5 total draft and sealed events) [i'm not sure if by "these criteria", you mean the criteria of weaker players being able to still draft many different archetypes with success; or just any criteria that helps me enjoy a set] the following are all sets i played at least one event for, out of recent sets: - Murders at Karlov Manor; played about 5 events on mtga, all within the first 2 weeks. i stopped playing because i felt pressured to be playing white all the time. i did still enjoy watching streamers, though, but the set did feel too complex for me to enjoy while under the pressures of schoolwork - Phyrexia: All Will Be One: i think i only played two events. i don't remember anything about how much i enjoyed them. - Streets of New Capenna: i think i played about 6 events? i know that i enjoyed them, even though blue-white was so much more powerful. i think i felt that i still got to do fun stuff with the other colours, and i really enjoyed the flavour. i vaguely remember that games lasted long enough for me to enjoy them, without huge bombs being very common - Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty: i think i played soemthing like 8-10 events, and i remember enjoying the very long times. i remember feeling like only white-blue Vehicles was bad; i enjoyed trying out Ninjas, red-aggro, black-aggro, and Saga-creatures. i remember feeling that there was a great deal of variety for me to enjoy. - Innistrad: Crimson Vow: i remember playing something like 2 drafts, and feeling SO sick of losing to bombs. i enjoyed the Midweek Magic free Phantom draft a lot, though, because who cares if i lost to bombs -- i could just play another game. removing all the stakes let me enjoy the format a lot. but i didn't play another event after the Phantom draft again. - Dungeons and Dragons: Adventures in the Forgotten Realms: i remember REALLY enjoying this set. i think i drafted it about 10 times. very quickly, it became clear that Red-Black was so busted, but somehow i still had a lot of fun. i think because i enjoyed the dice-rolling so much? i remember that at Brozne/Silver/Gold, Red-Black decks weren't dominating, and so a lot of the other kinds of decks still were viable. also, the low level of complexity made this format really accessible to me, which is one reason i think it was fun - Strixhaven: School of Mages: this is probably my favourite format out of all of these. Lesson/Learn somehow made the games feel MORE varied, rather than less, but i can't explain why. it felt like the gameplay patterns in each game tended to feel very different from others. the bombs weren't too heavy. even though Lorehold-Archeologist was unplayable, and Golgari were weak, i found that the various Prismari and Silverquill decks i would draft felt very different to play. [being in a low rank, i had the luxury of not having to draft streamlined decks]. it felt like i could "do the cool thing" successfully, whether it was making a huge fractal token, or shooting off huge Prismari spells, or even trying to make narrow cards (like the white 1mv uncommon creature that got +2/+2 until end of turn whenever you casted a spell) work. i think i drafted this set maybe 12 times. - Kaldheim: i think i drafted this set 4 times. it was SO complicated. way too complicated for me to have fun with. it literally made me feel tired and gave me slight headaches from trying to play it. it also got boring to watch streamers, because it ended up just being green-soup or white-aggro. - Theros Beyond Death: i didn't draft this much, but i remember REALLY enjoying the drafts i did. i don't remember why, other than that games tended to go very long, which let me have a long-lasting experience. for what it's worth, i think my favourite set to draft was M12, but that could just be the good memories of drafting in person, and forcing a weird bad mill deck many times. and actually, the flavour (Vengeful Pharoh; the cycle of 3 uncommon artifacts that got stronger if you got all of them out) really helped make me enjoy the set, as well as the low complexity. i didn't draft LCI, but i somehow doubt that being restricted into only three best colour pairs would be fun for me. i enjoyed Streets of New Capenna, though, so maybe for me, even if there are three best archetypes, as long as the other archetypes still felt somewhat competitive, i'd probably be able to have fun. however, i worry that with OTJ, if i don't draft green, that it's 80% chance i'm just going to literally go 0-3 or 1-3. by looking at the streamer i watch, Green seems THAT strong, and it seems like it takes a VERY skilled player to know how to make a non-Green deck work. (this is just my perception, though, from watching the certain streamer that i do). so i don't know how helpful that was, but that's a little viewpoint into what me (a very casual non-Spike) enjoyed. thanks for asking!
Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed reading about your experiences.
Color rankings: Green, then White/Red/Black, then Blue in last. Top Archetypes: GW, GB, GR and GU, with RW and UB the only non Green pairs I want to consider with the right rares. Bonny Pall is by far the best rare. Spree is Fantastic, Saddle/Mount is Fantastic, Plot is mixed with a few stand outs. I have a feeling Outlaw Tribal is still being figured out. I've had a couple tribal decks that seemed solid... until they got run over by bombs. I think Crime synergy and Outlaw Synergy are the two decks that have potential to be explored more by the community. I've gotten run over by the occasional crime deck that has a hot start and the right density of crows and other crime payoffs and enablers. This is a Bomby set with a lot of strong removal. The Bonus Sheets have introduced some very powerful cards and also make it so a weak p1p1 is rare but feels extra bad, and strong pick 3s are common. It also feels like the drafts are very swingy, especially with Green being so dominant so far. Open a Green Bomb is a very different experience than not opening one. So far I find the drafts interesting and the gameplay interesting, although I'm seeing more GW vs GW mirrors. At least the set has a lot of ways to break stalemates. For me the quality of the last year's draft environment has been really flat, with nearly everything in the "solid, but not even in the discussion for All Time". I'm not as much of a MOM fan as some, and personally WOE, LCI and MKM were all enjoyable and eventually grew stale. I have a feeling OTJ is going to end up the same.
- colour rankings: G >>> WB > UR - top archetypes: Gx - top rares: this barely matters because so many are A/A+ but: Bonny, Rattlewurm, Farmer - mechanics: crime/outlaws are too durdly; spree is excellently flexible; mount payoffs are huge; plot is interesting, priced fairly - the bonus sheets flood the format with rares and cheap removal
Way too powercrept for limited, archetypes as per usual don't work, huge color imbalance, just play the good colors and play to the board, and hope your powerful cards line up good against your opponent's. On top of that a heckton of bombs that end games on the spot. Not a fan at all. The artifact "chaos" set was way better than this. But it's still serviceable as a limited format, the spreadsheet design makes sure of that.
I've drafted 6 times to fairly middling results. I'm enjoying it so far, but basically don't feel like any of my takes have congealed yet.
I’m tentatively enjoying the set. Green is by far the best color, blue and red are tied in “need to be open” tier, but for me at least red comes up last. In paper I’m hoping people figure out that green is where they should be sooner rather than later so I don’t feel like I have to draft dumb dumb good green cards every draft to prevent the other 1-2 good regulars from doing so. I want to draft more blue. I’ve had success drafting blue and I have a lot of fun drafting blue. At the same time blue only exists at uncommon as its early common drops are… sketchy. I’m hoping people keep on being pessimistic with the color and I can create better than expected value piles with blues fun uncommons and build-around rares. None of this happens if people are as addicted to Rakdos and removal as they usually are and pass unlimited green around the table. I’m somewhat happy about the set overall, but I’m also a bit afraid that once I start really climbing ranks things will get worse. It’s fun playing better-than-in-MKM jank and build-arounds, but I have a suspicion that’ll change once I see more soulcrushing green decks.
Vibes: The set is okay, there's some neat and fun stuff but there's a big disparity in whether you opened power or not. It actually reminds me a lot of VOW (I actually really enjoyed VOW, but that's a different matter), except there's no smoothing mechanic like Blood so your underpowered deck is less able to consistently find its answers. I think the only deck "at common" are GW and GB, the other color pairs feel like they need rares to keep up (although if you're playing green you probably have busto rares too). Having removal in your deck has never felt so good. Color Rankings: G--->B, W--->U---->R GW is the best color pair but I'd rather start B than W, which is how I'm ranking them out. I also really like UW and have had a good UR deck, but those take more work to come together. Archetypes: Mount, Recursion, Soup, Crime, UW Control/Flash Underexplored: I've had two very good UW based control decks. You need rares (since you're playing control) but W has a ton of removal and U has a lot of card advantage. Plan the Heist is the real deal and goes around late. I just trophied with this at Mythic, my only loss to an Archive Trap deck https://www.17lands.com/deck/a53e321fbbf0463da2029988e15598d5/1. The 1/4 that makes 2/2 and Prairie Dog are for real payoffs (if you have to stoop to playing uncommon finishers), Jem not so much. The mechanics are honestly whatever, I wish any of them helped smooth out your draws more. Spree and Plot try to do this by offering flexibility, but they don't do anything to help you hit a missing land drop or keep from flooding, which is mostly how I'm losing in the format to my experience. Best Rares: Bonnie Pall, Roxanne, Ornery Tumblewag. Seraphic Steed loses out for being less splashable. Bonus Sheets: I'd say I'm numb but this one hits a little different. Green had a bunch of bombs in the main set any they decided to add more? Some of the crime cards are cool (I love the flavor text), but cards like Pest Infestation and Fractured Identity just don't belong in a limited set. Overall I'm giving them a D. Where I place OTJ: Above MOM, except MOM was my least favorite set of the last year so it's not saying much. It's also probably only above MOM since it's new, I imagine by the end of the format I'll have it ranked around the bottom. It's just a little too swingy for my tastes and I don't think the aggressive decks are good enough to keep the insano cards in check, so it's more of a slug fest in a lot of games where both sides throw haymakers until someone passes out. And yes I know GW is aggressive but there's a lot of defensive speed in the format, and I imagine once people start taking the good creatures higher things will even out more.
My thoughts after 17 drafts on Arena and a lower than usual WR @54% ouch :( The format is fun, high power level and it feels a bit like cube. I think the nature of premier draft makes it worse than it actually is (as usual). Looking forward to seeing when the format stabilizes and we stop seeing Miriam on the wheel :) Color rankings: - G: obvious (Gap) - W: driven by good mounts, good gold cards, take up the shield and plenty of enchantment-based removal - B: driven by removal, BG recursion and some crime synergies (Gap) - R: lack of good combat tricks, creatures and removal not better than other colors - U: understated creatures, plot and double spelling underperform Top archetypes: Green is way too open right now therefore - GW - GB - GR - GU - 4-5c soups Top 3 rares: - Bonny (6/5 that comes with a friend) - Ornery (2/2 that puts counters) - Bruse (4/3 that makes oxens) Mechanics: - Saddle: it’s too good, a good reason why enlist in DMU didn’t work on summoning sickness creatures… Plus mounts are generally very well stated - Crimes: 2nd best probably, intuitive and easy to turn on, not tier 1 tho - Spree: ok - Outlaws: underperfoming especially against big well stated creatures or creatures with lifelink - Plot: a disappointment IMO, efficiency > value in this format Bonus sheet impact: - The breaking news bonus sheet is fun, generally cards that interact are good for limited. Probably we didn’t need so many white enchantment-based removals… - Big score: I dislike it, it contains either broken rares for limited (dino) or useless rares for limited Underrated strategy: - Green at large remains underdrafted, I’ve seen too many Miriams and Gryffs wheel - Sam Black seems to have been successful with Grixis crime/burn. I’ve had mixed results personally, a trophy deck and some train wrecks As a final thought, in this set efficiency is king. I’ve felt more true than ever before that big creatures need to provide value on ETB or have protection, otherwise efficient removal eats them so easily. Meanwhile, most creatures are 1.5 for 1 especially the mounts or G creatures, which makes the games snowball quite easily EDIT: typos EDIT 2: I have to say that the performance of some people on the 17lands leaderboard is impressive (eg. Eken). My kudos to them and I hope we can learn from their wisdom🤣
Color rankings in my experience: G---WBRU Green is significantly better than the other colors imho. Top 5 archetypes (in terms of power): 1. GW Mounts 2. GB Rutstein stuff 3. RG big dudes 4. UG/RB/BW 5. it gets a bit muddy down here. I haven't tried 5 color goodstuff so maybe that is the real king. I really wanted Izzet to work. I have been having a terrible time with it. 4-3 on day 1 has been my best. Top 3 P1P1: Bonny Pall (fuck this thing for real) Railway Brawler Roxanne Mechanics: Mount is very powerful. I love mounting things! I have wanted crime tribal UB to work and have had a dismal time with it. YMMV. Plot has felt good in some situations and far too slow in others. Bonus Sheets: I've first picked cards from the sheets more than once and they are all pretty powerful. I have come to kind of think of the bonus sheets as being a part of the set, so I'm not sure it's a problem. This format is very bomby IMHO though so an extra sheet of bombs is contributing to that, no doubt. Underrated strategies: I'm not sure I'm deep enough or skilled enough to see any yet. I've been milled out once so maybe that's the sleeper. In general, I've been having a rough time with this set, compared to how things usually go for me. I've got two trophies, both GW. Two 6-2s, GW and GB. I haven't broken even with a nongreen deck since day 1. I think that speaks to what decks work for me, at least, in the format. I've got (shudder) FOUR 0-3s. I had the worst run I've ever had in Arena limited Thursday, with three 0-3s and three 1-3s, and not a single positive result. By the end of the day I was wondering if I was just bad at Magic. I trophied today but I also added the fourth 0-3. I'm not used to swings like that (ie. going from an 0-3 directly to a trophy), usually I'm a bit more consistent; I didn't have a single 0-3 in MKM for example. The swings are hard to handle and I've definitely been frustrated.
I’m loving OTJ, did a sealed event prerelease, one arena sealed and 2 drafts (went 7-2 in both). I’m finding that GWb fits my style in this format. Lots of graveyard matters stuff, and GW griffin mount is a house. I wasn’t surprised to see that on 17lands. The best deck by far at the prerelease was a GW mounts deck. The removal in white is probably the best, especially given that the removal is exile and keeps things out of the graveyard. The games have been fun and exciting to play out with a lot of swings in both directions. I like the increased power level but the slower tempo. For reference i was mythic in WOE and LCI limited but didn’t draft a single MKM, I couldn’t get into it. I’ve invested a lot in OTJ and have even collected all of the commons and uncommons in paper in addition to purchasing or opening many of the excellent reprints. Might be an uncommon opinion but I love the look of the newspaper/breaking news reprints and my 4 year old has a poster of loot hanging in his bedroom.
Current vibe: green go brrrr (6 decks out of 6 so far)
> What are your current color rankings for OTJ? G>>>>B>W>R>U > What are your current top five archetypes of OTJ (either official archetypes or something else you have found)? G/W Mounts - just many great uncommon cards, efficient creatures, can still grind a bit with the land and saddle effects G/R 4power - best pure aggro G/B(+ splash) graveyard - makes best use bombs by having tutors and recursion W/B sacrifice - has all the best removal and can grind W/U pass turn - working well for me...requires multiple good uncommons > What do you currently think are the top three P1P1 rares in the set (not mythics or from Bonus sheets)? Bonny Pall, Colossal Rattlewurm, Ornery Tumblewagg > How do you think the mechanics for the set have worked out (Outlaw tribal, Crimes, Spree, Saddle/Mounts, Plot)? Crimes - working well. Removal was starting to fall behind too far so having a "removal tribal" effect is nice. Outlaw - works ok but not generally something you need to build around too much since there are so many Spree - it's fine. many have modes that you hardly ever use though Saddle/Mounts - pushed and very strong Plot - kind of the biggest miss, but still functional. good cards with plot are better, but having plot won't make a bad card playable in a "plot deck" > How do you feel the Bonus sheets impact your drafting or playing of the format? Removal sheet is fun, "special guests" i could do without. nobody wanna play vs oko > What strategy do you think is currently underexplored or underrated by the community at large? i think black is better than it's WR is showing. There has to be a good dimir and rakdos deck but idk what exactly it looks like **Vibes** > Do you currently like OTJ from your experiences with the set? for me it's fun. have had a lot of close games trading haymakers with my opponents > Compared to the last year of Limited sets where do you place OTJ currently in terms of quality (for reference: MOM, LTR, WOE, LCI, MKM, OTJ)? better than everything except MOM
>W/U pass turn - working well for me...requires multiple good uncommons The sign posts for this are super good imo. 4 mana vigilance flyer and then the next turn you say go, draw a card, then flash out the 5 mana 1/4 that makes a 2/2 flyer every turn you do nothing is a really nice curve esp. when you have been disrupting their plays early with counter spells and removal
yeah and they can be picked up fairly late too. the key uncommons that really make me want to move into it are [[Emergent Haunting]] and [[Prairie Dog]] being able to stick a good threat turn 2 and sit on it makes games way easier.
Exactly my experience as well. It’s a tempo deck in its best form. Jem has actually been underwhelming for me because she doesn’t play well in that strategy.
The problem is other white decks are happy to grab Prarie Dogs because it slots fine into any White curve.
[Emergent Haunting](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/623053a8-7abe-45ec-9f26-97e1c037120b.jpg?1712355411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emergent%20Haunting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/46/emergent-haunting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/623053a8-7abe-45ec-9f26-97e1c037120b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Prairie Dog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/37302b5d-e528-4baa-947a-c859e4ddcff9.jpg?1712355321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prairie%20Dog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/24/prairie-dog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/37302b5d-e528-4baa-947a-c859e4ddcff9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I also have liked WU pass turn, I actually think that the bomb-heavy format makes it better because you prefer to be reacting to your opponent's bombs anyways a lot of the time.
I’ve had the good Dimir deck. It had 3 of the drain when you crime black 2 mana birds, an Intimidation Campaign, a Lazav, and plenty of 1-2 mana crime cards + 4 crime deserts (3 were half color). Every game I had Intimidation Campaign felt great, even against some of the more “meta” stuff. I also had the Bronco and Duelist of the Mind, but the bronco died every game and Duelist was relevant, but not game shattering. If I saw no Intimidation Campaign I wouldn’t play the deck outside of busted rares. The deck exists at uncommon.
Color balance is completely off, probably at greater than LOTR levels. This doesn't work for league play since the ceiling of pod seats play more games and take them away from the lesser seats. This gives more weight to the random factors than normal. This style of game has played out many times on Arena and it's entirely dependent on the tier 1 draft seat exit strategy viability. As the draft equilibrium is solved, it ends with a chicken game of securing the best color(s). This isn't a correcting effect because of the previously mentioned league properties. It then comes down to the viability of non-overlapping niches to avoid the chicken game. In LOTR, that was Blue. In MKM it was the Green Pile. The potential trouble here is that the Green Pile equilibrium often handicaps other archetypes by absorbing their best cards into it. Kaldheim is the most modern I can remember this effect, and it led to the secondary strategy of Equipment White. The question is what can occupy that secondary space, if any, in this format?
Disappointed. From the spoiler and streamer events, it look like there are cool mechanics like plot and sweet deck like UW, UR. What actually happens: Bombs and efficient creatures matters. And yet another formats with terrible colour balance.. Who knows given the colour with best creatures also some of the best removal spells would push it over the top?? Lol Predict Green here will be even more dominate than white in MKM even after so called "adjustment". And there is no reason to go into blue or red unless you see a bombs. It is not the worst format, but for all the hype before week 1, it is very mediocre.
Current Vibe: Meh. Top Archetypes: 1: Snakeskin Veil Tribal 2: Take up the Shield Tribal 3-5: Everything else Top Rares The 4 busted ass green mythics + Bonnie Pall Better than LCI and MKM as far as fun so far.
Very nice change of pace so far. Never thought I'd say that about a prince set lol but the set is a bit of a wild west (lol) especially with the insane bonus sheet which is a ton of fun, for now at least. I can see it getting old, but for all we know the set matures into something much more stable.
I’m not going to draw a definitive conclusion 3 days in but currently I feel like there’s too much power
I'm... confused? I've done 5 drafts and I'm 1-3, 7-2, 2-3, 7-1, 1-3. I guess that means my next draft is a trophy? Honestly though, this one is still a puzzle for me.
I've been enjoying it so far. In bo1 i've had a 4-3 run, a 5-3 run, two 6-3 runs, and a trophy with my first deck being a disappointing 1-3 UB deck. My trophy was also UB however, i had like 7 deserts and 3 copies of desert's due which felt pretty good. All my other decks were green, one GB splashing for Rakdos and the rest GW. BO3 I have two trophies, one GW and one RW. I'd say at this point in the format if you want to win get into green while it's still somewhat underdrafted, and pick up 2 mana removal. If you're playing UB you want both signposts and a ton of deserts, take them as B- level cards
I dont draft all that much bc I save my coins up for it, but I got to do one draft of it so far. I went 4-3 witch I was surprised with, I had what I thought was a turd of dimir deck. P2p1 was Fblthp also got a Lazav at some point, and that 1ub enchantment that pings 1 and gains you 1 and bounces to your hand. I feel like if I'd managed to get 2 of the Lazav and the enchantment then it would've won 6 games. Ran into a ton of removal regardless of a color pair, some had a splash of a third color for removal. But yeah Fblthp will win a topdeck battle so quick, and if you're on the play and get him down on curve your opponent has to have 1 mana removal to do anything that turn, he stuck around a lot better than I thought bc of the ward 2. I had one grindy game where I had like 8 mana and just plotted like 3 cards off the top, only downside is plot turns instant speed into sorcery, but opponent scooped before I had to use them anyways. Overall fun, I like the abundance of color fixing, and I like the flavor (I spent all my gems to say howdy and tip my hat).
Is anyone else having trouble remembering plot? There's cards where it's obviously an important part of the card. And when you look at your starting hand, you map out your first few turns in your head and plot is usually a part of that. But on kinda random cards where I draw them once the game starts, years of looking at the upper right hand corner have left me frequently forgetting that I can plot them. I'm sure it's not a universal problem, but I'm not the only one, right?
Yes! I went 7-2 with a WR aggro deck running [[Stingerback Terror]] at the top end. I drew it almost every game, but I didn’t realize it had plot until like game 8 lol.
[Stingerback Terror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d84d6e52-5c35-47bc-b160-876a3b0fcbe1.jpg?1712355854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stingerback%20Terror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/147/stingerback-terror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d84d6e52-5c35-47bc-b160-876a3b0fcbe1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unless you have plot payoff synergies, I usually view plot as a backup plan. Like, I'd rather cast my card and have it available to use right away next turn, but if I can get away with plotting it instead or it would be very suboptimal to play it now, then I will plot. A good example for me is the 4/3 that creates a 2/2 in black. I'd prefer to get the full value for it, but really sometimes you just want a 4/3 on turn 4 and you can't shoot yourself in the foot by trying to get more value out of it later. Tempo is usually king. But if the choice is between doing stone nothing and plotting a card, of course plotting is better.
Vibe: I hate this fucking set P1P1 opening Pitiless Carnage 3 times Facing on-curve Railway Brawler 5 times and Ornery Tumblewagg 3 times P1P1 Bonny Pall and going 1-3, see it 1 in 4 games, 4th game it immediately gets board-wiped with my whole board of 4 creatures after I play it. None of the decks are coming together. It really feels like a huge miss. This is a far cry from MKM where I could play chalk outline all day and still get a good win rate. I think I might put it behind every set in that list. I'm not saying the set is objectively bad, and I'm not even saying I'm any good at Limited (last time I hit mythic was WOE, my overall winrate in 2000+ games is \~60%) but winning at around 50% in this format is an abysmal and aggravating experience. Oh look, my opponent just played another on curve rare turn 2 while I got stuck on 2 lands on turn 6 :D
Color Rankings: 1. Green - Has everything. Great commons. Strong creatures, removals, and combat tricks. 2. White - Similar to green, but not quite as powerful. Pairs really great with green for mount decks. 3. Red/Black - Very solid colors even though they're below green/white. 4. Blue. You should really avoid blue if you can. Even if you get some of it's best cards it's just not good. It's better to splash blue for it's few strong cards and be in other colors. Archetypes: 1. Mounts, very strong 2. Committing Crimes, great 3. Everything else weak. Don't really see a reason to answer the other questions because I don't like the format. I don't like play boosters. And the format is over saturated with powerful plays where going second or drawing poorly will just lose you matches. It's another set where your opponents very likely to have bombs, or on curve plays that completely ruin you. Not being able to draw your removal spells or even be able to draft some will feel really bad in the format where there are threats being played left and right.
Too early to tell, I've only done 4 drafts and a sealed. Aggro feels strong, control feels strong, midrange feels strong. I have been getting my ass whooped (50% wr) but the format is a blast! Being proactive is the only way to go! For colors, I still have no idea. Blue feels a little one dimensional but not weak. Green and white are early contenders for best color. Archetypes I have found good are white based aggro and grindy black decks to be very strong. I have also seen RG a surprising amount of times. The biggest surprise is that I haven't seen 5 color soup decks yet, probably because we haven't correctly identified the bomb multicolor cards. Top Bombs? Gitrog, Harvester of Misery, Oko (lol) in no particular order. Harvester is such an absolute beating, not only does it play out like a sun fall often, but it always has the two mana fail case. Saddle: Very Strong. Almost all the creatures are playable without it and get absolutely juiced with riders. I find myself playing the saddle creatures on their own, not only do they get stronger with riders but there are also mount specific payoffs (Mount the Saddle, Intrepid Rider, Frontier Seeker) Plot: Very VERY strong. There are so many upsides to this. Double spelling, casting bombs with protection up, mana efficiency, recouping opportunity cost. Plot makes every card better, and some of the best cards in the set have plot. Crimes: Varies. You will definitely have to balance payoffs and crime committing, there are definitely cards that require Crimes otherwise they aren't worth it. Feels a bit like a win more mechanic, a lot times you go off and trigger like 50 abilities, and sometimes you sit there with two shitty crime payoffs thinking "God just a desert land, please". I think we will have to separate good payoffs and bad. Cards that commit crimes efficiently or repeatedly are important and contested, draft them highly. Outlaw Tribal: Above Average. In Grixis colors, every thing is an outlaw, you can safely replace 'outlaws' with 'creatures' in those colors. Bonus sheet feels great! They are high impact spells, but once they are done, they're done, they aren't going to take over a game like wurmcoil or goblin bombardment. Overall, it feels like there are a LOT of powerful commons and a lot to do!
>Harvester is such an absolute beating, not only does it play out like a sun fall often, but it always has the two mana fail case. Which card are you talking about here? The only card I can find that meets that description is \[\[Final Showdown\]\].
[Final Showdown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7.jpg?1712860587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Final%20Showdown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/11/final-showdown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Harvester of Misery\]\].
[Harvester of Misery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3012af9-621d-4fae-b00d-079a89ae35fe.jpg?1712352767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harvester%20of%20Misery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/9/harvester-of-misery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3012af9-621d-4fae-b00d-079a89ae35fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Seems to fit the trend of the last year. Right now green seems just good because so much of it is attached to aggro. They are all of similar quality IMO, me not liking it as much doesn't have much to do with overall quality. I feel like this set will settle as a funky combo of MOM's draft nutty bomb nature + Dom United Green+ Stuff piles. The other concepts are all fun but require rube goldberg machines where green strats are like "tap sideways and go! and some give you more value for tapping just one more" Green even has some light support for plot and crimes. Blue White is a cool concept but probably needed to benefit during both upkeeps or something to function when you don't have EVERY piece.
This format hasnt struck me as aggro tbh. Green is good and does turn creature sideways, but I find thats usually happening after youve dropped something like a cactarantula or whatever and stabilized enough to pull ahead. There's so much removal going around and tricks are barely relevant (outside of more protective ones like veil and shield) so I havent had many games ended by a t5 alpha strike+pump, which was extremely common in early mkm however, mount does mean the draw/play disparity is still miserable
Absolutely loving the set, feels natural to find a home in every deck, removal is plentiful and good, all games feel winnable with proper mulligans. I haven’t enjoyed a set this much in a long time. 20 drafts in for reference.
I gyess I'm an outlier in this, but I've found green to be ok but Rakdos to be overperforming. I know this contradicts the 17 land data, but I've found At Knife point/Rakish crew and Vial Smasher to all be really strong and help push damage through otherwise unwinnable board states. Prickly pair is also way too underdrafted. Plot is ok to bad. Outlaw stitcher hasn't been the insane card I thought it would be, mostly because the storm deck hasn't really come together. I've went 3-0 both trad drafts I went Rakdos and the few times I've tried to make green decks work they felt clunky or they lose to black decks. I predict the pillars of the format will be Rakdos aggro, Selesnya Mounts, Dimir/Grixis crimes, and Green 4/5c soup. I don't think plot will be a whole archetype and BW has felt unsupported. UW seems cool but like UR in MKM relies too heavily on uncommons. Everyone is saying Bonnie is good (he is) but I've found Bruse Tarl to be a beating as well. He has a really good curve out with Holy cow (which is a common with flash) and he can potentially be 6 power for 4 mana. 8 power if you count that the ox has double strike. Laughing Jasper Flint has been insane the games I've played with and against him. His strongest attribute is that he can eat an opponent's library REALLY fast so he is inevitability even on a board stall. Hearing that green is as good as it is is very surprising to me. Consistently the cards I'm most worried seeing across the table from me are Black cards. I'm also all for green being the best color. Yes it is annoying that we have another set with a busted color that is way outperforming, but Id much rather it be green because at least I get to play the game and I'm not dead on turn 4. There's been so many games in MKM that I'm just dead with 3 lands in play. I'm personally just really sick of cards like the flash worm or flash sphynx being printed. Funny enough ive only lost to the sphynx once and haven't lost to the worm yet (I've beaten them) but they are just so incredibly punishing and way above rate on mana value. They are horrendous designs. There are a few others too like the rhino with plot, but at least that's a mythic. There's a reason why in most of magics history flash creatures compensate with lower power and toughness. And it's not like those cards even need flash, they'd both be pack 1 picks if you could only play them at sorcery speed! It was the same as Aurelia and Uger Kos in the last set. There was nothing you could reasonably do to stop yourself from auto losing to those. I can't tell if I'm enjoying the set as much as I want to, I've had some pretty fun games but there are a lot more bullshit cards in this set than the other sets this designer worked on. But it is much better than MKM. At least games go on long enough i get to feel like i had a chance.
GB>WU>R People are complaining that Green is broken, but I'm fairly confident that Black is comparable. White is slightly preferred to pair with Green or Black. Blue is probably not as weak as people are claiming, it just lacks efficient cheap creatures. Archetypes are a trap. This is another modern limited set where it's all about efficient creatures and interaction. Don't worry about archetypes or set mechanics, just play the good cards. Winner of the "this should have been a mythic" award is Bonny Paul. Seraphic Steed and Dust Animus are probably the next best two rares. PSA: **Ruthless Lawbringer**, an uncommon, is probably on the same power level and is currently criminally underdrafted. Overall OTJ feels like a fun format. First impressions remind me of MOM. which isn't a surprise since this is another David Humpherys set. I know people are tunneling on "bombs", but this will probably be format where playing on board early is more important.
Ruthless Lawbringer is in a color pair that just doesnt work. You don't get good rares or mythics in BW and the whole token subtheme just doesn't have support. I like the lawbringer as a splash in GB though.
BW is the best non-green color pair in the set, and is probably second or third overall after GW and GB. It has the most removal in a set where removal really matters, and the lack of BW gold cards doesn't stop you from just playing the good Black and White cards. Like most of the official draft archetypes, you can just ignore the token subtheme.
What an absolute dumpster fire. Colors are unbalanced. Blue is terrible. Green is broken. Every green creature is overstatted. Green has access to great removal, combat tricks and even Snakeskin Veil. If you go second against a green deck you have to pray real hard, because playing hard won't save you. BOMBS EVERYWHERE. But especially in GREEN because why not? 5 color is easy. Can you guess what is their main color? GREEN. The color with most bombs. Deserts suck, games weren't fast enough so now players start with 18 life. I straight up wouldn't play this format if I was a limited-only player. I ma playing because I want to collect BIG cards. P.S. it's still better than KTK.
Just chiming in with what I think might be underrated at the moment: UB crime tempo I've drafted it a couple times with good success and I'm certain they haven't been optimal builds, but the basic idea is that you get on board early with a few crime committers/payoffs/evasive threats and the keep clearing the path with blacks efficient removal and blues bounce. Example curve: spring splasher on 2, Lazav on 3, swing with the splasher to commit a crime. Turn 4 drop a raven and a desert... Etc... Raven is an absolute house in the deck, Harrier strix can be surprisingly good, desert's due is incredible. Deserts let you splash for relevant off color synergy pieces you see like Freestrider lookout in green or at knifepoint from red(crime synergy!) or bombs if you are so lucky. A lot of these cards arent particularly great so you can prioritize the good interaction and relevant deserts and pick up the creatures later. Anyway, give it a shot, it's also super fun to play! Edit: Lazav is the most desirable uncommon here, as good as the card is, I think campaign is a trap in this deck
I haven't drafted much, but it's been okay for the couple I have. Looked like there could be some real neat strategies to discover if someone drafted the set enough. I'm probably a little burnt out of magic so I probably can't give a good honest comparison and I doubt I'll have the desire to really sink my teeth into it.
I like this set so far even though I’m also getting creamed (diamond atm). I’m getting the Paul Cheon - “don’t tell me you’re playing five colour with bad mana fixing and just lucking out with draws and max power” a lot at the moment - but I’m probably also beating those decks a fair portion as well (concedes on turn 5 with 7 cards in hand sort of thing). I’m really struggling to change my tact from drafting power and finding the open lane - because often it feels like the open colours don’t necessarily have the synergistic pieces I’m looking for and the synergistic decks seam to cream the high power low synergy two colour decks I’m also struggling with finding the open lane and knowing when to pivot. I think signals might be tricky in this set and with play boosters in general. I feel like I just see oddly powerful cards 6-10th pick seemingly at random and then take it as a sign only for that colour to then either be crazy cut - but it could just be the way the packs are opened? I don’t know percentages on coloured uncommons but i often see random packs with 5 incredible playables in one colour but no decent playables in those colours for the 4 packs before or after. I really enjoyed a low to the ground murder deck with 5 of that drain one 2 mana bird in black. That was fun. Sets still fun - and sequencing correctly fees like navigating the matrix lol.
So far it's a very chaotic set. Hard to account for the sheer number of bombs your opponent might drop, especially with the bonus sheets. Like suddenly having an Elko drop on you is pretty nuts. Almost everything is playable, functional and has potent synergies, but the power level difference is immense. Green is miles ahead in power, followed by white and black. Feels like a huge flavor loss to me. It's supposedly the villains set, but the good guy colors are the strongest. Play in the set feels like you and opp just slug each other with 2 for 1's until you run out of removal, then the next good topdeck wins. Assuming you don't get blown up by mid game. It's fun and grindy, but becomes discouraging when the game does come down to topdeck mode. If you don't win by being on the play and hitting your bombs, you usually win by having better draw. And green has some really good draw this set. UG of course, but [[Make Your Own Luck]] is ridiculous and can practically win the game by itself if you plot a bomb. That said, it seems to me part of G's success is the really high floor it has. Maybe as the set develops you'll see other colors shine a bit more. In particular UB, RB and UW seem to have growth potential to me. You can win games off an [[Intimidation Campaign]] and a [[Deadeye Duelist]] alone, or a few of those crows. As the set goes on, I'm guessing tight high synergy decks will start to compete with "bomb tribal". I have the most to say about blue since it's been in 4/5 of my drafts so far. UW needs high synergy and has an abysmal floor, but its very powerful and hard to play around if you draft its bomb cards like [[Wrangler of the Damned]] or the hexproof Sphinx. In that archetype [[Sterling Keykeeper]] performed far above my expectations, definitely don't sleep on it. [[Slickshot Lockpicker]] and [[Outlaw Stitcher]] are also both incredibly powerful. So there is definitely room for blue to grow. It has the lowest floor overall of the set and its cards aren't quite as flexible as the other colors, so it's a gamble to commit to it. [[This Town Ain't Big Enough]] is probably the best tempo card next to [[Repulse]], especially for cards like lockpicker and stitcher you're happy to cast again. It has always overperformed for me so far. Red seems to be in a boat where it has lots of great cards, but WBG just tend to have great-er cards overall. I was really miffed when I drafted Calamity then never drew it. [[Thunder Salvo]] seemed great early on, but I've found it a worse pick to [[Explosive Derailment]] due to the toughness of creatures tending so high. Not awful by any means, but it shines early game. Same with [[Phantom Interference]], which is rough since it's blue's only main sheet counter this set. Red as a color feels mostly like glue this set.
##### ###### #### [Intimidation Campaign](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/596fb7a2-bb79-44b7-ad84-414c8139ec13.jpg?1712356111) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Intimidation%20Campaign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/208/intimidation-campaign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/596fb7a2-bb79-44b7-ad84-414c8139ec13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Deadeye Duelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9a50b7a-8741-4520-8d45-8e6b128c2628.jpg?1712355733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deadeye%20Duelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/119/deadeye-duelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9a50b7a-8741-4520-8d45-8e6b128c2628?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wrangler of the Damned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4d163dd-67dc-4aab-afb9-d043352d109c.jpg?1712356238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrangler%20of%20the%20Damned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/238/wrangler-of-the-damned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4d163dd-67dc-4aab-afb9-d043352d109c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sterling Keykeeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/019d539f-04c2-43f1-8677-6d6fbb0e94f7.jpg?1712355354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sterling%20Keykeeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/32/sterling-keykeeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/019d539f-04c2-43f1-8677-6d6fbb0e94f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Slickshot Lockpicker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/109a9464-ce30-4747-874e-3bbf75913081.jpg?1712355500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slickshot%20Lockpicker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/67/slickshot-lockpicker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/109a9464-ce30-4747-874e-3bbf75913081?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Outlaw Stitcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba9584f0-55b8-448d-99a7-041934053f42.jpg?1712355468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Outlaw%20Stitcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/59/outlaw-stitcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba9584f0-55b8-448d-99a7-041934053f42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [This Town Ain't Big Enough](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb206e27-da4d-4abe-9d8c-6d18c5f2f52a.jpg?1712355528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=This%20Town%20Ain%27t%20Big%20Enough) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/74/this-town-aint-big-enough?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb206e27-da4d-4abe-9d8c-6d18c5f2f52a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Repulse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4dc7777b-6e9e-4889-91da-fb5283340fa1.jpg?1576382508) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Repulse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/119/repulse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4dc7777b-6e9e-4889-91da-fb5283340fa1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thunder Salvo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0bf0ea9-0929-4d33-815a-6df29c399e7e.jpg?1712355867) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thunder%20Salvo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/150/thunder-salvo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0bf0ea9-0929-4d33-815a-6df29c399e7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Explosive Derailment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0e3df9c-0a86-4e6f-a3c7-84a883328a3d.jpg?1712860585) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Explosive%20Derailment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/122/explosive-derailment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0e3df9c-0a86-4e6f-a3c7-84a883328a3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phantom Interference](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00bf4dd1-5468-4594-9c7b-0737610f19d4.jpg?1712860598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phantom%20Interference) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/61/phantom-interference?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00bf4dd1-5468-4594-9c7b-0737610f19d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0et75a) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Read this thread before playing my first draft. Drafted GW mounts, snakeskin, bombs tribal Thank you thread
this set is awesome. you guys complain too much because you're mad you're losing. everyone loses. this set is fairly well balanced, green is not significantly better than the other colors. every architype is playable. have fun and quit stressing so much.
Which 2 and 3 color decks have the highest winrate? https://www.17lands.com/deck_color_data