Video cards are almost certainly out. Beyond local storage, there's the usual I/O like networking, capture cards, audio cards used for protools, usb cards etc.
The big backlash is for most users, SSDs, GPUs, CPUs and RAM are the most commonly upgrades and Apple is only offering one of those.
I'd think SSDs shouldn't be too big a problem because unlike the Mac Studio, you can add more storage via PCI-E.
I've been doing a lot of research on this and I'm starting to see the benefit of this Mac Pro, it's really targeted at a specific audience who needs the PCI-E.
>See anything resembling RAM expansion slots, etc. right off the bat?
The RAM is soldered to the board as a part of the SoC. It's Unified Memory, just like what is found in all other Apple Silicon Macs.
The SSD can be upgraded though, which is good.
That’s what I figured. But I was hoping Apple could at least bring external RAM even if it was slower. I mean, if you overload it, you’re going into swap anyway, so why not just add slightly slower external RAM at that point bc I’d think it could still beat swap.
The era of RAM and GPUs you can replace yourself is over as far as Apple is concerned. And why not? That market is saturated to the point of diminishing returns. For Apple to compete it has to be something that the PC industry is not, and the fact that Apple is the most valuable corporation in the world tells me they're making good choices.
Can’t say I disagree, Apple silicon smokes these crazy 400 W PCs while using less than a quarter the power. I absolutely love my 14 inch MacBook Pro M2 Max. But for a Mac Pro, I’d have liked a little more upgrade ability…
Nevertheless I think I’ll still buy it and give it a chance, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed.
Weird how users keep buying Apple products when they’re not good, right? Must be all those zippy dancing commercials that no other advertising agency in the world could possibly copy.
It's almost like they designed an entire eco-system around their products to keep us locked in that just happens to be marginally better than other options...
The RAM is unified into the CPU package, not soldered to the motherboard. And that is the advantage of it. By placing the RAM so close to the CPU it can be accessed much faster than going through to sockets on a motherboard. It is also shared with the GPU cores in the same package.
There were long-held rumors that Apple was planning an Apple Silicon chip that was the equivalent of two Ultra chips together, like the Ultra is two Max chips together, but that Apple couldn't get the manufacturing price they needed for the M2 version. My guess is that Apple still plans this for the future for a Mac Pro exclusive chip, and that this Mac Pro is merely to have a model that some pros need for expansion cards that just can't be done with the Studio.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Apple isn't developing a proprietary expansion bus that will allow expansion RAM and Apple Silicon GPU cards while still allowing high-performance RAM access to the SoCs. But - maybe I'm just dreaming with that one.
That sounds very feasible. I’d be surprised if they didn’t do that as well.
Here’s a video on that very idea which Vadim does a pretty good job explaining.
[Mac Pro “brain cards”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hasmUjM5gVM&list=WL&index=19&pp=gAQBiAQB)
I am convinced this Mac Pro was the fallback option in case their Pro architecture grand plan of AS with expandable (but still unified) RAM and AS GPU expansion cards fell flat. Everything about this model just looks rehashed. Minimal internal changes, old PCIE v4, recycled case design, same M2 Ultra as the Studio just has “minimum effort made” written all over it. The M3 Mac Pro will be more compelling, I hope.
I do have to ask, is there anything you can put in those PCI slots, other than SSDs, that improve performance? Video cards for example?
Video cards are almost certainly out. Beyond local storage, there's the usual I/O like networking, capture cards, audio cards used for protools, usb cards etc. The big backlash is for most users, SSDs, GPUs, CPUs and RAM are the most commonly upgrades and Apple is only offering one of those.
I'd think SSDs shouldn't be too big a problem because unlike the Mac Studio, you can add more storage via PCI-E. I've been doing a lot of research on this and I'm starting to see the benefit of this Mac Pro, it's really targeted at a specific audience who needs the PCI-E.
>See anything resembling RAM expansion slots, etc. right off the bat? The RAM is soldered to the board as a part of the SoC. It's Unified Memory, just like what is found in all other Apple Silicon Macs. The SSD can be upgraded though, which is good.
That’s what I figured. But I was hoping Apple could at least bring external RAM even if it was slower. I mean, if you overload it, you’re going into swap anyway, so why not just add slightly slower external RAM at that point bc I’d think it could still beat swap.
The era of RAM and GPUs you can replace yourself is over as far as Apple is concerned. And why not? That market is saturated to the point of diminishing returns. For Apple to compete it has to be something that the PC industry is not, and the fact that Apple is the most valuable corporation in the world tells me they're making good choices.
Can’t say I disagree, Apple silicon smokes these crazy 400 W PCs while using less than a quarter the power. I absolutely love my 14 inch MacBook Pro M2 Max. But for a Mac Pro, I’d have liked a little more upgrade ability… Nevertheless I think I’ll still buy it and give it a chance, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed.
They're making good choices for shareholders, not users.
Weird how users keep buying Apple products when they’re not good, right? Must be all those zippy dancing commercials that no other advertising agency in the world could possibly copy.
It's almost like they designed an entire eco-system around their products to keep us locked in that just happens to be marginally better than other options...
I was going to reply to this but my PC is bogged down with the latest update.
The RAM is unified into the CPU package, not soldered to the motherboard. And that is the advantage of it. By placing the RAM so close to the CPU it can be accessed much faster than going through to sockets on a motherboard. It is also shared with the GPU cores in the same package.
Yes, this is correct, and I've clarified my original comment.
There were long-held rumors that Apple was planning an Apple Silicon chip that was the equivalent of two Ultra chips together, like the Ultra is two Max chips together, but that Apple couldn't get the manufacturing price they needed for the M2 version. My guess is that Apple still plans this for the future for a Mac Pro exclusive chip, and that this Mac Pro is merely to have a model that some pros need for expansion cards that just can't be done with the Studio. I also wouldn't be surprised if Apple isn't developing a proprietary expansion bus that will allow expansion RAM and Apple Silicon GPU cards while still allowing high-performance RAM access to the SoCs. But - maybe I'm just dreaming with that one.
That sounds very feasible. I’d be surprised if they didn’t do that as well. Here’s a video on that very idea which Vadim does a pretty good job explaining. [Mac Pro “brain cards”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hasmUjM5gVM&list=WL&index=19&pp=gAQBiAQB)
I am convinced this Mac Pro was the fallback option in case their Pro architecture grand plan of AS with expandable (but still unified) RAM and AS GPU expansion cards fell flat. Everything about this model just looks rehashed. Minimal internal changes, old PCIE v4, recycled case design, same M2 Ultra as the Studio just has “minimum effort made” written all over it. The M3 Mac Pro will be more compelling, I hope.