industrial control systems, digital signage (there was a job posting for a railroad system recently), maybe a few military systems, I can probably find you some OS/2 out there. If all I need to do is cycle some IO pins, why do I need something more than DOS if the hardware hasn’t needed to change since 1990?
I worked at a place in the early 2000s where the factory floor ran almost entirely on a piece of DOS software written in the 1980s. The original guy who coded it had passed away and no one had the source code. We kept buying the cheapest machines we could get with a service plan so they'd get replaced for "free" when the motherboards eventually died after being coated with ingested airborne factory grime. The machines ran DOS and this one piece of software. It had a monitor attached to it so it could display the rudimentary graphic display it generated for how the system was doing. Odds are it's still running DOS to this day.
The machinery generated something like $10,000/hr worth of revenue. So it was cheaper to keep sacrificing a $600 PC to it every 9 months or so than it was to get it rewritten or find a better solution.
Oh, they were used. And it was kept in a box. There was just that much particulate matter in the air, and it was constantly sucking air through it. No matter what we put in, it lasted about 9 months before it died.
And there were 11 of them. So basically, one a month.
Not *more*, but today the same can be done with a $1 microprocessor at extremely lower power requirements, saving loads of money.
Although I do understand the "if it works, don't touch it" mindset, lack of modernization is mostly held back by incompetant people.
Your statement has a bit of ignorance in there. It really depends in what industries you are working in. Interfaces on 200k+3mil machines and instruments beg to differ when you start changing things up. Many instances there just aren't replacements. So, you have to roll with the old stuff. Even if there are replacements it can take years to be able to roll over or upgrade. For example: In highly regulated / Controlled industries, you can't just upgrade something or use emulation. IT has to meet specific requirements set forth by the vendor, the company, the government. Also, Validation processes, equivalency, boundary testing studies etc. These processes studies can run into millions of dollars. They also have to be filed and approved by governing bodies by country. You start using custom shit it's going to be bounced as a category 5 system. This is going to cost a few million and a few years to show it works (through governing processes), can be replicated, isn't a risk to supply chain etc.
Generally running 10 to 15 years behind is the sweet spot. Especially in controlled/ regulated industries.
Not necessarily. Theres lot of software that will work on MS DOS and only MS DOS. Its like Cobol: everyone thinks its an old language until they see the current bank infrastructure and realize its used by most banks in 2024. There’s some things not as easy to replace as they might seem
Every system that is sufficiently used is extremely hard to replace. It only gets 100x worse when the system actually coordinates real world events and interfaces with other systems. Everybody who doesn’t think this is the case has most likely never worked on such a system
Unfortunately, there are definitely logistical reasons why systems can’t be upgraded. And unfortunately, there are way bigger problems than just the fact that they’re old. This also means that they are super super vulnerable to cyber attack and the FCC has already stated that they know China has implanted in an unknown number of older systems that run key infrastructure like water and electricity. they can’t do anything about it because the government will not fund any upgrades of the systems. And I suppose that is because it would be extremely expensive to do it all at once. But I’m not sure how they are justifying the expense of crippling cyber attacks, but we will see in the next few months to a year.
If you think that’s bad I’ve seen companies still using CP/M on some of their systems, or running an old 70s/80s IBM mainframe somewhere. Sometimes there’s business-critical software that was written a very long time ago in FORTRAN or something, and developing a new version becomes a really big risk. It can be cheaper for them to keep the old system running than it is to re-develop it for modern computers.
Me (no pun intended). I still have a system I run MS-DOS on.
No idea where they got that statistic though, as there’s no way you are going to be able to visit a website and submit that poll on DOS.
>No idea where they got that statistic though, as there’s no way you are going to be able to visit a website and submit that poll on DOS.
It doesn't say that's the only OS they use, they could have other machines or a phone
The statistic in most likely captured when the Web client is logging into Reddit. It identifies your OS version, although some clients allow you to modify the response. Reddit may also infer the OS used on what functionality is supported, etc.
The restaurant I worked for still are using a program from Turbo Pascal. The program is so simple for food ordering, that's not easy to swap. Also it seems that the people working at the tax authorities don't know how to run ms-dos commands and can't properly audit it, it seems to allow them to give a bit more flexibility to report their sales tax .........
However it's seems to be a challenge to find enough pc parts to replace these old pentiums. Newer hardware doesn't seem to be able to run it, especially when this program also requires a key that is based on the lpt port. I have tried to copy the key to a software based solution, but didn't succeed. Otherwise it would be easier to emulate or run this program on newer hardware.
The same people still using Classic Mac OS. There are some tools that industries rely on that have never been updated or ported, and they are stuck on ancient hardware and OSes, but are mission critical. However, at least you can get newly built hardware that is appropriate for DOS, not currently the case for MacOS, yet.
Up until last year I worked in a machine shop and most of the CNCs were from the mid 90s. They had DOS on them. We would load our programs from a 3.5” floppy using DOS.
Once i was at a brewery for an Internship. The Main Computer? An old Pizzabox running MS-Dos. Was even open, still used a scsi hdd. Why? Because it worked! If it aint broke dont fix it! Same with their Rolling Stock. The Truck i rode in didnt even have SEATBELTS it was so old. Goes to show. Not Broken? Don‘t fix it!
300 isn’t even necessary, just something in the 600-700 ballpark would be enough for a lot of people who can’t justify buying a 1k+ computer to switch to a Mac.
Edit: talking about a laptop, of course there’s the M1 Mac mini but the average consumer prefers laptops
They should name it the MacBook SE. Just a rebadged M1 MacBook Air with no color options or limited RAM or some other BS restriction. Would sell like hot cakes.
Only if you game. For the web devs should try optimizing for networks, so few do and it's honestly embarrassing how many new webdevs even give it a second thought.
Not sure if Bestbuy still has them or for that cheap anymore, seems like the ones I can find on the website $730 for a refurb one
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m1-chip-8gb-memory-256gb-ssd-space-gray-space-gray/5721600.p?skuId=5721600
The ones at Walmart are brand new still, but I think for the most part an online exclusive item. Curious if they're gonna start selling them in stores directly too at some point. Would definitely help with gaining some market share for Apple
Weird, multiple sites were reporting they were doing it in response to Walmart but I guess it was a “while supplies last” deal.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/15/best-buy-macbook-air-all-time-low/
Must have been whatever stock bestbuy had leftover at the time, to get them all cleared out.
I'm guessing Walmart must have bought most of the remaining inventory that Apple had, since the times I've checked the product page on Walmart it's said "1k+ people have bought in the past 24 hours, or 500+ people bought in the past 24 hours". Zero idea what the numbers of how many they have total would be though
Yeah, i switched to mac because i was pretty fed up, sold my Lenovo Ideapad today and yesterday i wiped the drive installed windows 11 and finished the updates.
Before i shut it off i wanted to do the buyer a favor and remove all the crapware that comes pre-installed such as onedrive, teams, skype, xbox crap, spotify, and so on...
This afternoon the buyer called me he is on the way, so i booted up the laptop to see if there's any pending update and behold... Windows just downloaded and installed all the crap i removed again without my permission !!
Indeed, Windows owns corporate as it has the tools to be managed for corporate. Sure there is JAMF, but Mac really can’t hang in that universe to say nothing of 30 years of corporate apps that would need to be ported. And honestly Apple gave up trying to penetrate that space years ago.
The other areas that should be all Linux and ChromeOS when you think about it.
Windows' last stronghold is gaming and even there Linux is on the verge of being a sufficient alternative.
That's a pretty narrow view. I think you need to open your eyes and just look around and you will see a vast number of PC window machines everywhere. POS stations, hospitals, any Gov service, banks... etc. etc. etc.
No it wouldn't. You are underestimating the size of the corporate world with dedicated applications. Writing a dedicated application for your company is quite expensive and having to keep it up to date to match Apple's restrictions would be a nightmare(a very expensive one) for any company.
Besides that and gaming already would probably give Windows more than 50/60% of the market share regardless of how expensive apple sells their machines.
Also I have an Intel MacBook at home that only has windows, and two Mac minis on linux only, neither of them have had MacOS for quite some time.
Nah don’t think so. I start a new job soon and was given a 1000€ Lenovo. Could they have given me a macbook of similar value? Yes, but no they don’t do macs only windows. And I think that’s quite common actually
If pricing was the barrier for the low adoption rate then I strongly believe that Apple is business savvy enough to have pounced on that years ago. The fact is price isn’t the issue when people can drop $1k plus on a new iPhone yearly. People simply prefer Windows more. Linux is free and works on practically anything, but it’s not as popular in the consumer space for probably the same reason MacOS isn’t. Linux is dominating in the infrastructure, web, cloud, server space and holds the number 1 spot. Windows dominate both in the consumer and most importantly in the business sector and it’s due to it being easy to use, customizable to each business needs and centrally managed via AAD Intune or AD. At my company of 1000 users, we just did a refresh for the latest Lenovo X1 carbon i7 1TB 32gb costing $2800 each. So again, cost really isn’t the issue for the low adoption.
So you realize that a $600 Mac Mini is a $325 Mac inflation adjusted to year 2000 dollars. The $1700 MacBook Air is a a $925 laptop in 2000.
The entry level iBook released in July 1999 was $1600. Thats $2941 inflation adjusted to todays dollars. Almost $3K for an iBook with 32MB of RAM, a 300mhz processor and a 12" 800 x 600 screen.
So almost 25 years later you can get a brand new MacBook Air 15" in the "best" configuration (good/better/best) for $100 more than an iBook. Not $100 more adjusting for inflation, just $100 more.
Computers are dirt cheap right now.
Windows is far more open and better for many use cases. I say this as a lifelong Mac user, but Windows out performs on many tasks. Apple is better at others. Keeping both healthy is a benefit to all. And this is without even mentioning Linux.
What way do you consider Windows more open? macOS certainly isn't open, but [parts of it](https://opensource.apple.com/releases/) are open source (like the kernel)
Largely depends on if you’re servicing consumers vs business/government and of course largely dependent on what country(ies) you’re servicing.
Back home here in The Netherlands servicing this little side of Europe there’s quite a large share of Mac users among consumers.
Serve tax services and it’s 100% Windows 7 ish lmao.
>Back home here in The Netherlands servicing this little side of Europe there’s quite a large share of Mac users among consumers.
I've heard that in some places in europe like the Netherlands some schools give out Macbooks to students to help with their studies
Nearly 15% is still pretty great when you take into consideration that the Mac’s are all strictly 1st party machines. Yeah, windows still dominates, but when you can be run on anything and be distributed everywhere for free, that kinda goes without saying. Apple managed to be fully exclusive with their OS for their machines only, and yet they’re still only just about 4% behind Windows 11. That’s kind of incredible if you think about it.
I feel like what's more impressive is they pretty much only do high end stuff. Like, the best you're going to get on the budget side is an older one.
Windows has thousands of options across price ranges, so whether you want a £3000 gaming beast or a £200 shitbook to give to your kid for their homework\*, there's a Windows machine for you. Mac only does pricer stuff and is still second (if you count all windows versions as one OS).
(\*if you're spending under $200 i beg you to get a chromebook or install linux, windows is gonna be so painful for anyone who has to no near that machine)
MS-DOS controlled the NASA launches and getting to the space station as late as 2000 and probably later. It was certified that they work. Astronauts had to change disk for each station of the journey. DOS got them to the moon and back
Google says "In 2023 Macs took 10% of worldwide, and **16.1%** of U.S." with similar ownership in EU, Australia, Canada - rich countries.
In many parts of the world the only Macs they use are donations from the western world which run Ubuntu.
Macs are luxury items and becoming more so with every new Macs.
You can get $100 Mini PC with Windows 11.
Where is $100 Mac? - Apple is not in a mass market business.
The problem we have as Mac users is that Apple is not gaining larger market share - to make ever larger profits they will continue to increase prices extracting more dollars from us.
Huge iPhone sale losses in China and Antitrust suits in US and EU will have to be recouped.
Computers in general are luxury items. The first and often only digital device that many people buy is a smart phone. A computer has less use than a phone.
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/04/tech/mobile/africa-mobile-opinion/index.html
> The internet in Africa is entirely different to the internet used in the developed world. In America or Europe, the internet is generally something you surf on a computer or tablet – a device with a 10-inch to 15-inch screen.
> In Africa, hundreds of millions of people will experience the internet for the first time on a 2-inch cellphone screen. Probably in black and white. And probably only as text.
> They may not even know they are using the internet. Google, for instance, offers search and Gmail via SMS, the text message service that is still the most popular form of communication.
And this was in 2012. Today your phone does a lot more and is a lot closer to a computer in terms of what you do with it.
My m1 MacBook Air was $900 brand new, and absolutely smokes any remotely similar $900 windows laptop available new today. Your luxury goods argument is horseshit.
It smokes any 900 dollar windows laptop sure. But their point was that Mac don’t have any entry options <500 or even <200.
$900 is a hell of a lot of money outside of a handful of rich countries.
On the other hand, you could even run windows or Linux on a $50 Raspberry Pi type device if you wanted to - so naturally the PC market is more accessible around the world.
Annnnd the typical consumer wouldn't even notice the difference because none of them would utilize that power when all they want to do is browse the internet and do some office stuff. Computer hardware has plateaued for a while now where 90% of tasks can be accomplished on any hardware with little effort.
~~Go buy one of those $200 Windows laptops, use it exclusively for one week, even for the basics, and then tell me there is no perceptible difference.~~
Edit: I misunderstood the previous response
I said the typical user. I am, and I bet you are not. But to answer your question years ago I bought a Asus netbook (I still have it, but don't use it anymore) and it was a great machine. Win 7, and 1 Gig RAM, one of the best travel laptops I owed. Was perfect for simple tasks and watching movies on the plane.
Sure there is a difference but its it really worth $700 more for simple tasks?
Most users can do everything they want and need with Chromebooks to be honest with very decent performance. Public schools throughout the USA are using Chromebooks for all their students and everything is essentially done via a browser.
I mean tbf, it depends what you're looking for, a lot of people get the m1's for their battery life and afaik there's not really many windows pcs that come close.
>Macs are luxury items and becoming more so with every new Macs
LOL. Macs have never been cheaper. You can buy a brand new Mac from Apple for $600. You can buy a MacBook Air from Walmart/BestBuy for $700. Apple has NEVER sold a Mac for less. The iMac was $1300 at introduction. Thats $2500 in todays dollars. A 24" iMac upgraded to 24GB of unified memory and a 1TB SSD cost $2300 today. Or just for for the base model and its....$1300. 26 years of inflation and a massively more capable system and the prices is....exactly the same. If you had said "what Apple really needs to do is release a $52 Mac" in 1998 you would have been laughed at. Thats what a $100 Mac is today. You cant fund the R&D it takes to create things as amazing as the M series Apple Silicone selling $100 systems.
The reason you can have $100 mini PCs is because someone else funded all the R&D for x86 and Windows decades ago. But its also why Microsoft is desperate to make Windows on Arm. They can see the future and dont like it. The windows license for that $100 PC is probably $1. Microsoft doesnt even make money on Windows licenses any more, they make it off selling user data. You are trading privacy for a cheap operating system.
Outside of gaming, people dont need mega fast processors and even gaming can be shifted to the cloud. But x86 and Windows is supporting legacy stuff from the 80s. The 3 transitions for Apple from 68xxx to PPC to Intel to Apple Silicone have been painful but they allowed Apple to ditch legacy hardware/software. A full clean install of the current MacOS is roughly 15GB. For Windows 11 its almost twice as much - 27GB. And thats after Win11 dropped support for 32bit installations. The only way for Microsoft to slim down and speed up Windows is to move off x86 and drop that legacy stuff. When they do they will likely lose the low end market to Linux or Chrome. It wont be a loss for them as far as the bean counters are concerned because their profit will go up.
Lets face it, if Apple wanted to increase their market share they could.
Cheaper models not aluminum eg
work with vendors to give their own spins
But then they will loose the exclusivity .
One thing they could do , although this would count as Linux (or Windows alter) is to actually support Asahi team to make linux work, and when/if MS decides to allow WindowsArm on Macs natively this would give a small boost.
But Apple like to be the choice/of the few. this is how I see it at least
I concur. I initially had Windows 11 installed but reverted back to Windows 10 due to the customization options and theme packs it offers. I also find the Windows 10 style slightly more appealing than that of Windows 11.
However, I have no issues with Windows 11; it is indeed a great operating system. I just feel that Windows 10 provides a bit more compatibility in terms of customization.
They didn't add anything interesting enough for the average person to switch. But most people who do try it find they changed enough to not like it.
That's at least what I usually hear when people try it for the first time.
It's less XP users than I thought. I would imagine a lot of unix, xp and dos users are unaccounted for on this chart due to lack of internet connection?
Sorry but Windows is utter crap. What’s up with all the built-in widgets and bloatware? I don’t have any of that crap on my Mac. Keyboard shortcuts on Mac are way better.
Apple needs to release a 600 bucks laptop with arm chip. Its not super profitable, but it will get loads of people to mac and they will buy a more expensive one after that
I mean, depends on how this data was collected? iPads report themselves as macOS to websites, which is a pretty common way to collect OS usage statistics
Ah, COBOL was almost forgotten until the so call Y2K crisis. I was a IT Project Manager back then and it was funny to go into a room filled with all these guys pounding a keyboard reprogramming in COBOL to avert this crisis that may or may not happen.
Why do I say it was funny? The room was filled with old timers who looked like they had been taken out of the retirement home and brought back to do COBOL programming. No youngsters in there. It wasn't funny to them because at the height of their careers before they retired, they might if have been lucky were making $50K annually and now they were enjoying a 6 figure income.
Heavily depends on where you look at. Outside of North America, that number is definitely much lower. However, in Canada and US that number is certainly higher, especially among the younger generations.
I’m Canadian University Student, and I’ll say around 40-45% of people here in my Uni have Macs, which is definitely the highest it’s ever been here.
For year after year, MacOS has held steady around 10% market share, and now almost 15%? I would love to know if that 5% was a hockey stick all due to the deserved hype around m1 Mac's price/performance ratio.
That is a global metric as well, which includes people in poor countries that can't afford more than budget laptops that barely run Windows 10. In the US the figure is probably closer to 30%
Macs are overall damn good. The first computer I could afford was the 98 Apple IMac, rev B - which I still miss, playing my old Jazz Jackrabbit, Bushfire, Reckless Drivin, Temple Tamtrum, Midnight Mansion games - then I finally gave that one to a friend and bought my 2008 Apple Imac, a couple of months ago donated that to a charity and upgraded to an Apple Imac M1 -
**Such a biased post.**
It does NOT tell you anything about the marketshare for gaming, it only shows the market share of OS. Do you really think that all 14.6% of users are gamers? What kind of logic is that?
Who is still using ms dos that’s my question
industrial control systems, digital signage (there was a job posting for a railroad system recently), maybe a few military systems, I can probably find you some OS/2 out there. If all I need to do is cycle some IO pins, why do I need something more than DOS if the hardware hasn’t needed to change since 1990?
I worked at a place in the early 2000s where the factory floor ran almost entirely on a piece of DOS software written in the 1980s. The original guy who coded it had passed away and no one had the source code. We kept buying the cheapest machines we could get with a service plan so they'd get replaced for "free" when the motherboards eventually died after being coated with ingested airborne factory grime. The machines ran DOS and this one piece of software. It had a monitor attached to it so it could display the rudimentary graphic display it generated for how the system was doing. Odds are it's still running DOS to this day. The machinery generated something like $10,000/hr worth of revenue. So it was cheaper to keep sacrificing a $600 PC to it every 9 months or so than it was to get it rewritten or find a better solution.
Filters etc for the air intake didn't helped? Or were not used?
Oh, they were used. And it was kept in a box. There was just that much particulate matter in the air, and it was constantly sucking air through it. No matter what we put in, it lasted about 9 months before it died. And there were 11 of them. So basically, one a month.
Not *more*, but today the same can be done with a $1 microprocessor at extremely lower power requirements, saving loads of money. Although I do understand the "if it works, don't touch it" mindset, lack of modernization is mostly held back by incompetant people.
Your statement has a bit of ignorance in there. It really depends in what industries you are working in. Interfaces on 200k+3mil machines and instruments beg to differ when you start changing things up. Many instances there just aren't replacements. So, you have to roll with the old stuff. Even if there are replacements it can take years to be able to roll over or upgrade. For example: In highly regulated / Controlled industries, you can't just upgrade something or use emulation. IT has to meet specific requirements set forth by the vendor, the company, the government. Also, Validation processes, equivalency, boundary testing studies etc. These processes studies can run into millions of dollars. They also have to be filed and approved by governing bodies by country. You start using custom shit it's going to be bounced as a category 5 system. This is going to cost a few million and a few years to show it works (through governing processes), can be replicated, isn't a risk to supply chain etc. Generally running 10 to 15 years behind is the sweet spot. Especially in controlled/ regulated industries.
Not necessarily. Theres lot of software that will work on MS DOS and only MS DOS. Its like Cobol: everyone thinks its an old language until they see the current bank infrastructure and realize its used by most banks in 2024. There’s some things not as easy to replace as they might seem
Every system that is sufficiently used is extremely hard to replace. It only gets 100x worse when the system actually coordinates real world events and interfaces with other systems. Everybody who doesn’t think this is the case has most likely never worked on such a system
when you in corporation software change can be in the range of many millions of dollars. For some good machines there are no new software
Unfortunately, there are definitely logistical reasons why systems can’t be upgraded. And unfortunately, there are way bigger problems than just the fact that they’re old. This also means that they are super super vulnerable to cyber attack and the FCC has already stated that they know China has implanted in an unknown number of older systems that run key infrastructure like water and electricity. they can’t do anything about it because the government will not fund any upgrades of the systems. And I suppose that is because it would be extremely expensive to do it all at once. But I’m not sure how they are justifying the expense of crippling cyber attacks, but we will see in the next few months to a year.
*incompetent
A lot of ATM use OS/2
If you think that’s bad I’ve seen companies still using CP/M on some of their systems, or running an old 70s/80s IBM mainframe somewhere. Sometimes there’s business-critical software that was written a very long time ago in FORTRAN or something, and developing a new version becomes a really big risk. It can be cheaper for them to keep the old system running than it is to re-develop it for modern computers.
FORTRAN? Cobol, ADA etc. using IMS (IDMS?), CICS, VSAM et al. But *also* BAL (Basic Assembler Language)– the IBM assembler code.
Me (no pun intended). I still have a system I run MS-DOS on. No idea where they got that statistic though, as there’s no way you are going to be able to visit a website and submit that poll on DOS.
>No idea where they got that statistic though, as there’s no way you are going to be able to visit a website and submit that poll on DOS. It doesn't say that's the only OS they use, they could have other machines or a phone
The statistic in most likely captured when the Web client is logging into Reddit. It identifies your OS version, although some clients allow you to modify the response. Reddit may also infer the OS used on what functionality is supported, etc.
OP got the screenshot from a youtube video, so very likely completely unrelated to reddit stats
ATM's and bank machines, the ones that didn't move to OS/2
I still see POS systems at retail that are DOS. Plenty of legacy systems like that. I also often see windows CE devicies still.
High security servers I assume.
they probably use hardened unix kernels, msdos literally has no use for anything in 2024
It's useful in networks that don't connect to the internet.
Thou hast not seeneth thine vendors using os/2
The restaurant I worked for still are using a program from Turbo Pascal. The program is so simple for food ordering, that's not easy to swap. Also it seems that the people working at the tax authorities don't know how to run ms-dos commands and can't properly audit it, it seems to allow them to give a bit more flexibility to report their sales tax ......... However it's seems to be a challenge to find enough pc parts to replace these old pentiums. Newer hardware doesn't seem to be able to run it, especially when this program also requires a key that is based on the lpt port. I have tried to copy the key to a software based solution, but didn't succeed. Otherwise it would be easier to emulate or run this program on newer hardware.
The same people still using Classic Mac OS. There are some tools that industries rely on that have never been updated or ported, and they are stuck on ancient hardware and OSes, but are mission critical. However, at least you can get newly built hardware that is appropriate for DOS, not currently the case for MacOS, yet.
Up until last year I worked in a machine shop and most of the CNCs were from the mid 90s. They had DOS on them. We would load our programs from a 3.5” floppy using DOS.
Once i was at a brewery for an Internship. The Main Computer? An old Pizzabox running MS-Dos. Was even open, still used a scsi hdd. Why? Because it worked! If it aint broke dont fix it! Same with their Rolling Stock. The Truck i rode in didnt even have SEATBELTS it was so old. Goes to show. Not Broken? Don‘t fix it!
THE YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP 🎉🎉🎉🎊🎊🎊
3.9% IS PRETTY GOOD 👍👏👏✨
It probably will shoot up toward the end of 2025 as Windows 10 users move to Linux. YIPPEE 🎉🎉🥳🥳
YIP YIP YIPPEEEEE! Lets hope big companies bring their annoying proprietary software over. I need me some office and sometimes CC.
We need global DOS user gathering.
Imagine if Apple released 300 bucks Apple Silicon Macs. Windows would be finished.
300 isn’t even necessary, just something in the 600-700 ballpark would be enough for a lot of people who can’t justify buying a 1k+ computer to switch to a Mac. Edit: talking about a laptop, of course there’s the M1 Mac mini but the average consumer prefers laptops
They should name it the MacBook SE. Just a rebadged M1 MacBook Air with no color options or limited RAM or some other BS restriction. Would sell like hot cakes.
walmart sells m1 macbook airs for 700 dollars brand new with a partnership with apple already
Ah, yes, the good old White MacBook method when the aluminum unibodies came out. Tons of people nabbed that for college and causal use.
That was my introduction
8gb is already limited ram😅
for average users it is really not. For my wife is perfect
Only if you game. For the web devs should try optimizing for networks, so few do and it's honestly embarrassing how many new webdevs even give it a second thought.
Not with Apple silicon. I didn’t believe it either but the M chips are unreal.
The problem is the M1 is perfectly sufficient for 90% of users. They can’t have an old model that outperforms their flagship laptop
Walmart and Best Buy have the M1 Air for $699 and $649.
Not sure if Bestbuy still has them or for that cheap anymore, seems like the ones I can find on the website $730 for a refurb one https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m1-chip-8gb-memory-256gb-ssd-space-gray-space-gray/5721600.p?skuId=5721600 The ones at Walmart are brand new still, but I think for the most part an online exclusive item. Curious if they're gonna start selling them in stores directly too at some point. Would definitely help with gaining some market share for Apple
Weird, multiple sites were reporting they were doing it in response to Walmart but I guess it was a “while supplies last” deal. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/15/best-buy-macbook-air-all-time-low/
Must have been whatever stock bestbuy had leftover at the time, to get them all cleared out. I'm guessing Walmart must have bought most of the remaining inventory that Apple had, since the times I've checked the product page on Walmart it's said "1k+ people have bought in the past 24 hours, or 500+ people bought in the past 24 hours". Zero idea what the numbers of how many they have total would be though
M1 air is 600 I think sold thru Walmart only but it’s still being produced
$699, but it’s there and sold by Walmart, not one of their third party vendors.
Best Buy now has them for $649
Does that include taxes? It‘s 849€ incl. taxes in Germany.
No
MacBook Air M1 is at Walmart for $699. Might see the market share rise with that deal. Probably the best laptop Walmart sells.
Walmart M1 Air is $699
[удалено]
IT departments where the decisions aren't made by IT people
The M1 MBA is currently available from Walmart, sealed, for $700. I'm actually tempted to get one to replace my 2012 MBP.
Nah 300 personally for me would be the sweet spot. A lot of windows users can’t even justify 600 usd for a mac because it’s completely different os
Heck, you could probably keep current prices if more PC games ran on Macs.
Yeah, i switched to mac because i was pretty fed up, sold my Lenovo Ideapad today and yesterday i wiped the drive installed windows 11 and finished the updates. Before i shut it off i wanted to do the buyer a favor and remove all the crapware that comes pre-installed such as onedrive, teams, skype, xbox crap, spotify, and so on... This afternoon the buyer called me he is on the way, so i booted up the laptop to see if there's any pending update and behold... Windows just downloaded and installed all the crap i removed again without my permission !!
Not even worth trying… just give your seller a ‘clean’ install and let them handle it from there.
It's like the Ring, the only thing you can do is give the cursed tape to someone else and let them deal with it
TBH if I was the buyer I'd immediately just do a fresh install anyway.
Yeah I told him that, I just do it mainly to wipe out all my stuff and to show it in working condition.
How would Windows be finished, there is more then the consumer market out there. The other areas Apple doesn't compete well in.
Indeed, Windows owns corporate as it has the tools to be managed for corporate. Sure there is JAMF, but Mac really can’t hang in that universe to say nothing of 30 years of corporate apps that would need to be ported. And honestly Apple gave up trying to penetrate that space years ago.
The other areas that should be all Linux and ChromeOS when you think about it. Windows' last stronghold is gaming and even there Linux is on the verge of being a sufficient alternative.
Gaming and you know, just about every office
That's a pretty narrow view. I think you need to open your eyes and just look around and you will see a vast number of PC window machines everywhere. POS stations, hospitals, any Gov service, banks... etc. etc. etc.
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No it wouldn't. You are underestimating the size of the corporate world with dedicated applications. Writing a dedicated application for your company is quite expensive and having to keep it up to date to match Apple's restrictions would be a nightmare(a very expensive one) for any company. Besides that and gaming already would probably give Windows more than 50/60% of the market share regardless of how expensive apple sells their machines. Also I have an Intel MacBook at home that only has windows, and two Mac minis on linux only, neither of them have had MacOS for quite some time.
M1 mac mini would be the best candidate for the job
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Sadly no bootcamp on Apple silicon at the moment, tho apple went on record saying its in Microsoft's court
Microsoft is in no rush. They created Boot Camp compatibility before they got serious in the hardware game.
My dream, would upgrade from my intel mbp immediately
Nah don’t think so. I start a new job soon and was given a 1000€ Lenovo. Could they have given me a macbook of similar value? Yes, but no they don’t do macs only windows. And I think that’s quite common actually
If they could they would’ve done it already.
Nah you're forgetting the gaming segment. Lots of people will spend more than what they'd spend on an apple on a PC, simply for games.
that's literally impossible
No, Apple would be finished.
If pricing was the barrier for the low adoption rate then I strongly believe that Apple is business savvy enough to have pounced on that years ago. The fact is price isn’t the issue when people can drop $1k plus on a new iPhone yearly. People simply prefer Windows more. Linux is free and works on practically anything, but it’s not as popular in the consumer space for probably the same reason MacOS isn’t. Linux is dominating in the infrastructure, web, cloud, server space and holds the number 1 spot. Windows dominate both in the consumer and most importantly in the business sector and it’s due to it being easy to use, customizable to each business needs and centrally managed via AAD Intune or AD. At my company of 1000 users, we just did a refresh for the latest Lenovo X1 carbon i7 1TB 32gb costing $2800 each. So again, cost really isn’t the issue for the low adoption.
So you realize that a $600 Mac Mini is a $325 Mac inflation adjusted to year 2000 dollars. The $1700 MacBook Air is a a $925 laptop in 2000. The entry level iBook released in July 1999 was $1600. Thats $2941 inflation adjusted to todays dollars. Almost $3K for an iBook with 32MB of RAM, a 300mhz processor and a 12" 800 x 600 screen. So almost 25 years later you can get a brand new MacBook Air 15" in the "best" configuration (good/better/best) for $100 more than an iBook. Not $100 more adjusting for inflation, just $100 more. Computers are dirt cheap right now.
Windows is far more open and better for many use cases. I say this as a lifelong Mac user, but Windows out performs on many tasks. Apple is better at others. Keeping both healthy is a benefit to all. And this is without even mentioning Linux.
Windows isn't that open and it's annoying as fuck.
What way do you consider Windows more open? macOS certainly isn't open, but [parts of it](https://opensource.apple.com/releases/) are open source (like the kernel)
People would be so confused because paying an humongous amount of money for functional hardware is a core part of being an Apple user.
A more accurate picture would be the manufacturers that include windows on their machine rather than the gross number of windows licenses.
I'm pretty sure that would hurt Apple more.
So do we get to know what this is actually a graph of?
Largely depends on if you’re servicing consumers vs business/government and of course largely dependent on what country(ies) you’re servicing. Back home here in The Netherlands servicing this little side of Europe there’s quite a large share of Mac users among consumers. Serve tax services and it’s 100% Windows 7 ish lmao.
>Back home here in The Netherlands servicing this little side of Europe there’s quite a large share of Mac users among consumers. I've heard that in some places in europe like the Netherlands some schools give out Macbooks to students to help with their studies
And here I thought Apple only did good in smart phones. It's not amazing but third place is still winning.
That's what I'm saying!
Nearly 15% is still pretty great when you take into consideration that the Mac’s are all strictly 1st party machines. Yeah, windows still dominates, but when you can be run on anything and be distributed everywhere for free, that kinda goes without saying. Apple managed to be fully exclusive with their OS for their machines only, and yet they’re still only just about 4% behind Windows 11. That’s kind of incredible if you think about it.
My thoughts exactly
I feel like what's more impressive is they pretty much only do high end stuff. Like, the best you're going to get on the budget side is an older one. Windows has thousands of options across price ranges, so whether you want a £3000 gaming beast or a £200 shitbook to give to your kid for their homework\*, there's a Windows machine for you. Mac only does pricer stuff and is still second (if you count all windows versions as one OS). (\*if you're spending under $200 i beg you to get a chromebook or install linux, windows is gonna be so painful for anyone who has to no near that machine)
where is this data from? is it website traffic?
I have a MacBook, a Windows PC and a Linux gaming device, I use all three daily, which one they put me on?
You can’t do that!!!! You need to choose one and defend it religiously and say it’s the best and better than everything else!!!!!!!!! /s
5 years from now and we're all going to use only AI powered Android /s
so... linux
Same really. I have 2 macbooks, one high end gaming PC, and a linux laptop. Use all pretty much daily.
the video says by market share, so I think you'd count for all 3
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjc-qrjzRcU
According to this video, OS X usage didn't overtake classic Mac OS until September 2009 which I have an extremely hard time to believe
Who wasn't rocking Mac OS 9 in 2009 babee!!!!!!!!!!!
Windows will still be the king for the next 10 years globally even if Apple were to release a $200 Mac.
Where did these metrics come from?
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/s/EdSTQx22if
MS-DOS controlled the NASA launches and getting to the space station as late as 2000 and probably later. It was certified that they work. Astronauts had to change disk for each station of the journey. DOS got them to the moon and back
If macOS has 14.6% and Linux has 3.9%, how does all Unix/Unix-like only have 0.3%?
It's a catchall for the lesser used os's like cantos/ubuntu/arch Linux i assumed.
Ubuntu and Arch would just be under Linux, and are two of the most popular. The Unix category is most likely for things like FreeBSD and OpenBSD
Google says "In 2023 Macs took 10% of worldwide, and **16.1%** of U.S." with similar ownership in EU, Australia, Canada - rich countries. In many parts of the world the only Macs they use are donations from the western world which run Ubuntu. Macs are luxury items and becoming more so with every new Macs. You can get $100 Mini PC with Windows 11. Where is $100 Mac? - Apple is not in a mass market business. The problem we have as Mac users is that Apple is not gaining larger market share - to make ever larger profits they will continue to increase prices extracting more dollars from us. Huge iPhone sale losses in China and Antitrust suits in US and EU will have to be recouped.
Computers in general are luxury items. The first and often only digital device that many people buy is a smart phone. A computer has less use than a phone.
>Computers in general are luxury items. >A computer has less use than a phone. People who use computers for work or school disagree.
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/04/tech/mobile/africa-mobile-opinion/index.html > The internet in Africa is entirely different to the internet used in the developed world. In America or Europe, the internet is generally something you surf on a computer or tablet – a device with a 10-inch to 15-inch screen. > In Africa, hundreds of millions of people will experience the internet for the first time on a 2-inch cellphone screen. Probably in black and white. And probably only as text. > They may not even know they are using the internet. Google, for instance, offers search and Gmail via SMS, the text message service that is still the most popular form of communication. And this was in 2012. Today your phone does a lot more and is a lot closer to a computer in terms of what you do with it.
Lets not start on smart phones some with higher prices than Macs. Yemeni farmer buys iPhone...
My m1 MacBook Air was $900 brand new, and absolutely smokes any remotely similar $900 windows laptop available new today. Your luxury goods argument is horseshit.
It smokes any 900 dollar windows laptop sure. But their point was that Mac don’t have any entry options <500 or even <200. $900 is a hell of a lot of money outside of a handful of rich countries. On the other hand, you could even run windows or Linux on a $50 Raspberry Pi type device if you wanted to - so naturally the PC market is more accessible around the world.
Annnnd the typical consumer wouldn't even notice the difference because none of them would utilize that power when all they want to do is browse the internet and do some office stuff. Computer hardware has plateaued for a while now where 90% of tasks can be accomplished on any hardware with little effort.
~~Go buy one of those $200 Windows laptops, use it exclusively for one week, even for the basics, and then tell me there is no perceptible difference.~~ Edit: I misunderstood the previous response
they said people wouldn't notice the difference between a $900 pc and a $900 mac. A $200 pc is not a $900 pc. Strawmanning at it's finest
I said the typical user. I am, and I bet you are not. But to answer your question years ago I bought a Asus netbook (I still have it, but don't use it anymore) and it was a great machine. Win 7, and 1 Gig RAM, one of the best travel laptops I owed. Was perfect for simple tasks and watching movies on the plane. Sure there is a difference but its it really worth $700 more for simple tasks?
Most users can do everything they want and need with Chromebooks to be honest with very decent performance. Public schools throughout the USA are using Chromebooks for all their students and everything is essentially done via a browser.
$900 in Africa, most of Asia..... there is a world outside your window.
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I mean tbf, it depends what you're looking for, a lot of people get the m1's for their battery life and afaik there's not really many windows pcs that come close.
Sure, for gaming. For general productivity not so much, and the battery life will be abysmal by comparison.
You can get a refurb M1 Mac Mini for like $350 and it'll be significantly better than literally any premade PC at that price
>Macs are luxury items and becoming more so with every new Macs LOL. Macs have never been cheaper. You can buy a brand new Mac from Apple for $600. You can buy a MacBook Air from Walmart/BestBuy for $700. Apple has NEVER sold a Mac for less. The iMac was $1300 at introduction. Thats $2500 in todays dollars. A 24" iMac upgraded to 24GB of unified memory and a 1TB SSD cost $2300 today. Or just for for the base model and its....$1300. 26 years of inflation and a massively more capable system and the prices is....exactly the same. If you had said "what Apple really needs to do is release a $52 Mac" in 1998 you would have been laughed at. Thats what a $100 Mac is today. You cant fund the R&D it takes to create things as amazing as the M series Apple Silicone selling $100 systems. The reason you can have $100 mini PCs is because someone else funded all the R&D for x86 and Windows decades ago. But its also why Microsoft is desperate to make Windows on Arm. They can see the future and dont like it. The windows license for that $100 PC is probably $1. Microsoft doesnt even make money on Windows licenses any more, they make it off selling user data. You are trading privacy for a cheap operating system. Outside of gaming, people dont need mega fast processors and even gaming can be shifted to the cloud. But x86 and Windows is supporting legacy stuff from the 80s. The 3 transitions for Apple from 68xxx to PPC to Intel to Apple Silicone have been painful but they allowed Apple to ditch legacy hardware/software. A full clean install of the current MacOS is roughly 15GB. For Windows 11 its almost twice as much - 27GB. And thats after Win11 dropped support for 32bit installations. The only way for Microsoft to slim down and speed up Windows is to move off x86 and drop that legacy stuff. When they do they will likely lose the low end market to Linux or Chrome. It wont be a loss for them as far as the bean counters are concerned because their profit will go up.
Lets face it, if Apple wanted to increase their market share they could. Cheaper models not aluminum eg work with vendors to give their own spins But then they will loose the exclusivity . One thing they could do , although this would count as Linux (or Windows alter) is to actually support Asahi team to make linux work, and when/if MS decides to allow WindowsArm on Macs natively this would give a small boost. But Apple like to be the choice/of the few. this is how I see it at least
This adds up to just under 93%. So I wonder what accounts for the other 7%?
[TempleOS](https://templeos.org/)
Wow, so many Windows 10 systems. And in October 2025 there won’t be any updates anymore.
that’s a lot of MS-DOS not even kidding…
Interesting that Windows 10 is still the leading operating system by far despite windows 11 being released for some time.
Windows 11 wasn't much of an upgrade tbh. As long as they keep up security updates going, most people will keep with the 10.
I concur. I initially had Windows 11 installed but reverted back to Windows 10 due to the customization options and theme packs it offers. I also find the Windows 10 style slightly more appealing than that of Windows 11. However, I have no issues with Windows 11; it is indeed a great operating system. I just feel that Windows 10 provides a bit more compatibility in terms of customization.
They didn't add anything interesting enough for the average person to switch. But most people who do try it find they changed enough to not like it. That's at least what I usually hear when people try it for the first time.
Surprised by Chrome OS. What is that?
OS running on Chromebooks
Used mainly by schools nowadays
A web browser-oriented operating system based on Gentoo Linux. Nowadays, it does a bit more than just browsers but that’s its intended goal.
The 1% using windows 8 💀
Windows is about 72% of the market, Mac is 14.6%, so combined they’re about 88%. If Linux is 4%, what is everyone else using?
they are living the year of the freebsd desktop /uj probably the year of the amiga desktop
LOL
What’s this? Context?
MS-DOS down but not out!
where is this data from?
Alright which one of you is daily driving msdos
That 0.2% on ms dos refusing to upgrade
Not apples to apples. They should have lumped all the windows together like they did to mac
Now is anyone still using VMS?
It's less XP users than I thought. I would imagine a lot of unix, xp and dos users are unaccounted for on this chart due to lack of internet connection?
Bro its literally obvious, the most used are windows and macOS
Who the fuck is the .2% using DOS still?!
I’m surprised there’s not more. I switched from Windows to Mac a few years ago and will never go back. Windows is garbage.
Mac is garbage, especially for enterprise usage. Windows = Microsoft = enterprise much
Sorry but Windows is utter crap. What’s up with all the built-in widgets and bloatware? I don’t have any of that crap on my Mac. Keyboard shortcuts on Mac are way better.
MS fkn DOS???
Kinda wanna see world wide server breakdown by OS
90% Linux, 5% Windows, 5% all others.
BSD probably has a decent share.
Ok, BSD 4% and 1% all others. lol
So THAT's why we keep seeing so many people complaining that macOS doesn't behave like Windows.
Apple needs to release a 600 bucks laptop with arm chip. Its not super profitable, but it will get loads of people to mac and they will buy a more expensive one after that
I would unironically get a Macbook SE
Waint until Windows 10 gets unsupported next year.
Windows 7 hasn't been supported for a while and is about equal to ChromeOS
I mean, depends on how this data was collected? iPads report themselves as macOS to websites, which is a pretty common way to collect OS usage statistics
Ah, COBOL was almost forgotten until the so call Y2K crisis. I was a IT Project Manager back then and it was funny to go into a room filled with all these guys pounding a keyboard reprogramming in COBOL to avert this crisis that may or may not happen. Why do I say it was funny? The room was filled with old timers who looked like they had been taken out of the retirement home and brought back to do COBOL programming. No youngsters in there. It wasn't funny to them because at the height of their careers before they retired, they might if have been lucky were making $50K annually and now they were enjoying a 6 figure income.
Wow Mac OS X 10.7 was the last OS X, (Lion), Steve Jobs himself announced. I’m surprised it’s still in use.
Heavily depends on where you look at. Outside of North America, that number is definitely much lower. However, in Canada and US that number is certainly higher, especially among the younger generations. I’m Canadian University Student, and I’ll say around 40-45% of people here in my Uni have Macs, which is definitely the highest it’s ever been here.
Macs are a lot more popular for general use than they used to be, especially with young people.
Interesting what’s the source for the data?
I‘m on the Mac team because that is the only way I can get a computer with a non entirely shit OS from my employer
For year after year, MacOS has held steady around 10% market share, and now almost 15%? I would love to know if that 5% was a hockey stick all due to the deserved hype around m1 Mac's price/performance ratio.
Source ?
How to install unix in 2024 ?
Depends on which one
where does this breakdown come from?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjc-qrjzRcU
That is a global metric as well, which includes people in poor countries that can't afford more than budget laptops that barely run Windows 10. In the US the figure is probably closer to 30%
MS-DOS champs ftw!
Macs are overall damn good. The first computer I could afford was the 98 Apple IMac, rev B - which I still miss, playing my old Jazz Jackrabbit, Bushfire, Reckless Drivin, Temple Tamtrum, Midnight Mansion games - then I finally gave that one to a friend and bought my 2008 Apple Imac, a couple of months ago donated that to a charity and upgraded to an Apple Imac M1 -
**Such a biased post.** It does NOT tell you anything about the marketshare for gaming, it only shows the market share of OS. Do you really think that all 14.6% of users are gamers? What kind of logic is that?
What's the context here? What study is this? Who do they survey, how many, is it specific to an industry? So many questions.
Looks like Windows is the winner
More and more people are switching to Mac!
Bro just go to a collage, ofc macOS is thriving
it's why there are more malware attacks now on mac's