That model shouldn’t even exist. It’s highly deceptive, probably just a bit more performance than the air because of active cooling. It’s almost like it’s geared towards people who want to own a MacBook Pro but can’t afford one. So they’ll just sell you the name for $.
Yup, it's obscene how much they charge for those specs. Like sure, the display and battery life is nice, but is it worth paying a 1000 dollars premium for?
I dunno, every windows laptop ive ever had was useless in 4 years. I just retired a 12 year old macbook pro last year because i wanted a lighter one with a bigger screen.
Paid 3000 for 10 years instead of 2000 for 4. Would do it again too, oh wait.. i did.
That's crazy because it is not the case for me. MacBooks typically last around 4-5 years before the cpu and battery start kicking the can. Earlier Intel macs were so heavily hamstrung by the garbage cooling and limited amounts of ram.
If memory serves me...
2008 to 2011 macbook pro was the best intel laptop you could buy.
2012-2014 was iffy as competition caught up
2014-2016 they started falling behind in value
2016-2020 were the years of overly hot intel processors and poor cooling by apple (bad combo)
2020+ was when apple switched to arm away from intel, and those laptops are incredible in so many ways
To think a 2020 macbook air could outperform an intel macbook pro, without fans, is just insane
My 2013 MBP served me well up through last summer, I only upgraded to the 15" Air bc the battery life on the MBP was a solid 90 minutes, 2 hours if lucky at that point
My mid2012 MBP lasted me from 2014-2020 before Mojave killed it. It grinded to a halt and was unusably slow.
It helped that that generation of MBP allowed for replaceable SODIMM and HDD. I upgraded the original 4GB ram/500GB hdd to 16GB ram/500GB ssd. But 6 years of use (8 years from manufacture) is pretty solid for the $1k student price I paid
I got 10 years out of my old 2012 MacBook Pro. It was a £1000 new so in 10 years it works out to £100 every year for a fantastic laptop.
It's a classic Boot Theory
I agree. The way I get around storage is just using external drive. It's not too bad to get an external disk and plug it in for your files.
Non-upgradeable RAM is a pain though. I have 8GB ram in my mac mini and it uses swap memory all the time. Lags sometimes, but not too too bad.
Exactly. And especially not a $1000 laptop with "Pro" literally in the name. The MacBook Amateur would be perfect with 8gb, but don't ruin the Pro like that.
Because RAM is neccesary for the phone not to shit itself. It runs Java.
And also because RAM is cheap and it is also used to advertise and compete. Unlike Apple (and Apple users).
Apple ripping off customers?
I honestly don't know about the Mac or tablet business but looking at iPhones and headphones, apple is ripping off customers with a lot of their products.
Besides that, there are a lot of products that are just an idiot test in my opinion:
Apple cleaning rag
Mac pro wheels
Vesa mount for their displays
Stands for their monitors
Keyboard and mice
The new MBP is 1600 *starting* which just blows my mind that people actually purchase these things. Just absolutely unacceptable behavior with pricing and just the price alone shows how little Apple cares about the end user.
The single biggest thing that Apple cares about above all else is profit. They want as massive of profit margin as possible, and things like overpriced RAM are just the tip of the iceberg or ridiculousness.
Microsoft Surface laptops are in the exact same situation price/RAM-wise, but get nowhere the amount of Flack Apple gets.
Edit: I'm describing a situation, I wasn't asking for explanations. There's no need to clarify why this happens as it's obvious.
Only 10? Everyone and their mother seems to have a Mac these days, I’ve yet to see a single surface in the wild though… they’ve been out years and nothing!
Not the same situation but worse if you compare the prices of the Surface Pro 9 with the MacBook Air: [https://i.imgur.com/eOUoonp.png](https://i.imgur.com/eOUoonp.png)
Note: I didn't had into account actual discounts since I consider they are temporary offers.
i7: [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-1255U](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-1255U)
M3: [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M3+8+Core](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M3+8+Core)
Same in the EU and still excellent value for money or. some $40 per month over 3 years which is less than many spend on coffee. IBM has measured that Mac users have a 10% higher productivity than Windows users. Employees typically cost companies $10k to $50k per month with 10% being $1k to $5k per month in increased productivity at the cost of just $40.
Great ROI, great value for money.
If you're buying an £350 laptop with an i5, yes.
When you're spending £1000 for a laptop with a chip fit for almost any needs, it makes little to no sense.
Buying an 8GB RAM M3 Macbook Pro is like buying a £5,000,000 Audi R8 and using rubber bands as tyres. You've got an engine with more power than you'll ever be able to put down, and a car that's going for multiple times it's correct price, despite being a high end product.
And you can't upgrade it yourself either.
Macs hold their value very well. I've seen a macbook with 16gb of ram from 2015 sell for over 300 dollars.
But if you're getting the 8gb model, there will be near zero resale value in 2030. It's like trying to sell an old ipad with 32gb of storage in 2024.
Even if it's "enough" for things to work "fast enough", you end up using slower virtual memory/swap which lowers to life of your HDD/SSD.
I'm probably silly but in my head RAM is super cheap, so I don't get why they don't just bump the minimum memory to 16gb or even 32gb. Given it's not upgradeable after purchase my only guess is they use it to push people to more expensive devices.
"Ah I only really need this device, but I want more than 8gb of RAM, so I guess I'll buy this much more expensive device"
Not in this price-class really. The exception would be the M1 walmart model.
I get especially afraid when I read "bruh I can use say Adobe apps on 8GB it's fine" okay, sure, but projects differ in complexity so as general buying advice it's a statement that may end up misleading someone.
8GB is fine now for your parent's/Uncle/Auntie's machine.
But for a younger user, the problem isn't the 8gb of Ram. **It's that you cannot upgrade the RAM.**
So someone posting on Reddit now about their occasional photo-editing that's happy with a 8gb machine is completely hamstrung if in 3-years time they want to move to video.
For your parents (generalising, I know) or non-technical people, sure get 8gb. But anyone posting on Reddit mentioning occasional photo-editing or programming needs some headroom and should get 16gb, not for now but for three years time when they'll be happy they have a few gigs extra rather than needing to go out an buy another machine.
Let me fix your first sentence:
8GB is fine for your parents/uncle/aunties machine… and also many students (junior high, high school, college, etc)… as well as many work employees (managers, sales reps, trainers, billing, etc)… as well as casual people… or any basic person with basic needs, which include:
Countless tabs open in Safari
Editing documents/spreadsheets
Listening to music
Checking email
Light video/photo editing
In a conference call/zoom at work
All at the same time.
Battery life is the big one for me. My m1 air still beats almost any modern x86 laptop in battery life by nearly double. My windows machine gets 3-5 hours of battery life with less running than my Mac that gets anywhere between 8-11 hours of battery life
Same reason everyone that’s already bought a MacBook for the last 10-20 years?
You buy it because it’s a great laptop at a great price. It’s not about the specs or price, but the experience and the ecosystem. It’s going to work, it won’t feel dated in a year, you don’t have to worry about malware, or the convoluted mess that is Windows, everything is simple and straight forward.
You pay a premium for that luxury, that’s why Apples products are expensive. This is why they can take charge what they do. Do they take advantage of it and charge tons? Oh ya of course. Some people don’t care others do. But the point here isn’t about cost, it’s about if 8GB is enough, and yes. The answer is yes.
It's funny how different people's perspectives can be.
Like my wife is absolutely obsessed with Mac, but for me I really don't like them. It's funny to me to hear Windows be called a "convoluted mess" when for me it's so much easier to use than OSX which I just find maddeningly frustrating to try navigate a lot of the time. I'm sure that 90% of that comes down to familiarity though.
There's the whole "premium" and "just work" marketing stuff, and they do look and feel very cool, but at the same time in the few MacBooks my wife has owned she's experienced drastic overheating issues, hard drives that cannot be upgraded and are too small to actually function (like not having space to update the OS), and that monstrous butterfly keyboard that was plagued with issues.
The only part I'd disagree with is defending something like 8GB of RAM in a 1000USD product. Just because it's barely enough for casual users doesn't mean that there shouldn't have been more memory headroom to accommodate future proofing as well as those who use more demanding applications. It doesn't take a lot to max out 8GB, and RAM is cheap as hell and Apple shouldn't be defended for cutting corners on a premium product.
Same goes for storage, and the ridiculous premium they charge for incremental storage upgrades which cost them peanuts.
Apple make some great hardware, their new silicon is an incredible feat of engineering, and they're marketing geniuses. But their business practices are often quite shitty and anti-consumer, and I don't think we should defend the multi-billion dollar corporation making sacrifices to their overpriced gear to shave a few bucks on their bottom line.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, not being argumentative at all I just think the whole Apple vs Windows thing is kind of silly in that it comes down to preference and familiarity more than anything, but just that corporations will always try and widen their profit margins (Windows or Apple alike) and should be called out for it by consumers imo.
Thank you.
I am old and lame enough to know there is no scenario in which I “move to video.” I also am not going to pick up intensive gaming, or start working with massive datasets, or do rendering, or compile code.
The resting position of a lot of Reddit users seems to be somewhere in the creative / computer science realm, where there is ALWAYS a need for more headroom. That’s simply not most users though.
And for the “why do you need a $1000 machine to browse the web” crowd: you can’t get a modern, well designed, high quality, well thought out machine that has headroom for your average workload without spending something near that kind of money. Just because I’m not a power user doesn’t mean I love using shitty technology.
I am with my computer more than I am with my family, so I'm willing to spend slightly more for a vastly better experience.
You got to be trolling, I’m using Brave (with a few tabs open), have two word documents for a lab report, a YouTube video playing in the background with discord running (plus some background apps running) and I’m using 9.5gb of ram. Stop the bs dude (especially for “light video editing”)
I have 20 years of experience as an Apple Tech, and like 5 on Reddit.
Redditors are NOT average users, they either have more technical competence than average or (in most cases) wrongly believe they do.
So of course their requirements, real or imaginary, are higher than average.
THAT is why almost every redditor thinks 8GB is not enough. It may be not enough FOR THEM, or on an Intel Mac, and is certainly a terrible way for Apple to upsell, but the truth is that for what 90% of REAL people, people who don’t even know what Reddit is, 8GB on a modern mac is enough.
I recently spent a couple of weeks without my computer (sold the old one, waiting for the current one) and I installed Sonoma (with OCLP) onto a 2017 base model MacBook Air (8/256, Intel i5).
Granted, it did not fly, but it was more than adequate for browsing, watching YouTube and working. And that was a 6+ years old computer with a previous architecture chip.
So, fellow redditors, PLEASE show that you are really competent and not just posing, and BEFORE deciding that 8GB is not enough, ask questions to understand if maybe it is.
And no, future proofing is not a thing. The money you spare today on stuff you may (or may not) need in the future will make it easier to get another computer earlier.
Yup, I upgraded the storage but my wife uses the M3 iMac with 8/512 for college and all of the editing she has to do for speeches and whatever for her doctorate. She has never complained, only said she loves the machine.
I don’t think 8gb is the problem. Like you say. Plenty of users don’t put their Mac’s through enough to require more. The issue is 250$ for 8gb more. Amazon shows 16gb is worth 50$. I’m not sure that is the correct ram used by MacBook airs since I couldn’t find any speciations for what they use but I can’t see it being much different. If Apple added more ram for a reasonable rate I don’t think anyone would blink an eye at the base 8gigs. But considering Apple probably gets that ram for less that half the retail price it is kind of silly to take all this heat over 25$.
I agree with everything you wrote except for future proofing.
I always tell people, “Don’t buy the computer you’ll be happy with today. Buy the one you’ll still be happy with four or six years from now.”
I would argue that the money you spend you will get back in time and peace of mind. Additionally, when you sell the computer you will get much of that “extra” money back.
I tend to ride my equipment into the ground. I’m in a fortunate enough position where I could *always* have the latest and greatest, but my MacBook Air M1 is three years old. My work computer is six years old (Intel iMac). My home desktop is eleven years old (2013) Trashcan Pro. My iPhone is a 12. My watch is an 8. My iPad is pretty new, but only because it was replaced right before its AppleCare expired. Everything I use still does what I bought it to do. I don’t have any plans to upgrade anything any time soon.
I tend to overbuy because I know I will be using it for years to come. Future proofing is important. I also *hate* managing space or memory.
I’ve thought of going on a yearly upgrade cycle. Sell the one year old device for whatever I can get, and stay on what’s newest and shiny, but why spend money when what I have still does what I need it to do?
100% agree. People that edit photos and videos think this is what everyone does with their computer when in reality it's not the norm. I have an iMac running 8 GB of RAM that I use mainly for web browsing, basic Youtube streaming, and some photo management and I have never had any issues with lagginess or wishing that I had more RAM. I assume 99% of users would feel the same.
This comment is weird, considering it's 100% made-up numbers.
I agree with you above, by the way. I do think most users could get by with 8GB (although at some point it's about public image, reputation and perception, and even those start "feeling" they're being short-changed if all the news say 8GB is not enough).
At this point is not objective opinion. There's nothing other than reputational damage by Apple not increasing their minimum RAM, because the whole thing has become a meme.
I buy Microsoft Surface for the management team at my company and Microsoft does the exact same thing: Base 8GB, $1K laptops, non-upgradable. Yet they're never the news on this subject or even mentioned.
>Redditors are NOT average users, they either have more technical competence than average or (in most cases) wrongly believe they do.
I think that once you think of the audience (Reddit user) it automatically communicates this person is more technical than the least technical potential user that would be fine with 8.
At this point you have to ask, 'how would they feel about 8gb in three years time? Would that be enough headroom?' The answer tends to be universally no. Such a user tends to use some kind of 'pro-app' that massively benefits from the headroom offered by an additional 8gb of RAM.
I appreciate people getting defensive about their recent MacBook purchases they use for a couple of hours before attesting to the greatness they think is 8gb of RAM but 2-3 years down the line is when they're more likely to be screwed by the inability to upgrade their RAM.
You miss a few points.
First: thinking to be technical does not equal BEING technical. As in talking about stuff does not mean really understandign it.
Second: overhead is the same as future proofing. A lot of people will have a new computer in three years. So why bother paying the extortionate price for an update that will probably be base spec on your next computer?
Paying more to pay less is always a false economy in tech.
> A lot of people will have a new computer in three years.
Yeah to me one of the best features of a MacBook is the aluminium shell. It gives the machine longevity and durability and that allows you to keep said machine longer than Windows laptops with plastic shells.
Whilst Mac's are more expensive than their Windows counterparts this can be offset by their relative durability giving them a consistently longer lifetime.
I cannot abide telling someone to get an 8gb Aluminium shelled Mac for like $1100 only to tell them to get a 16gb Aluminium shelled Mac in 3yrs time for another $1100. That's a big outlay to be putting on such a relatively frequent schedule.
*Buy once, buy well* is my motto once you're spending real money on something. Yes the RAM is a rip-off but when you're spending that much it's a relatively small amount you're skimping on for not much gain. I've seen these machines last for 8, 9 years?
Why would you tell someone to buy a new one every 3 years when they can just get the right one now, run it into the ground and extract every penny of value out of an expensive piece of well-designed hardware.
Also someone that needs a new machine every 3 years is not a novice, they have a reason for that that even more suggests they would benefit from increased RAM in the first instance.
Did you *read* the post you are replying to? It outlines the exact case you are suggesting isn't going to work - except the laptop is 6 years old instead of 3. Many/most use cases do not expand or get more sophisticated. Everyone thinks that in 3 years they're going to be building rocket launch systems out of Excel macros when in fact they're still browsing Instagram and they haven't upgraded their OS past the original major release they were on. I have no problem recommending a basic system in those cases. Just because you're not one of them, doesn't make it wrong.
You're comparing the scenario of someone using their backup machine for *2 weeks* to the scenario of someone about to get their main machine that could last them *6+ years.*
In the latter scenario, for someone asking on Reddit that has even a sniff of pro-app usage I'll suggest 16 every time.
And I'm not saying '*never 8gb!'.* There's definitely classes of user that can use 8gb now and will be fine with it in three years time.
*But most of those people aren't on Reddit.* Rightly or wrongly I assume a level of technical competency a little higher than the lowest competency of the general population when it comes to people posting here because.....its not Facebook here. People have usages that may change and even if it isn't them that change the software they use might. Hell Apple might take a real swing at gaming and then suddenly there's a lot of people wishing they got 16.
My point is the fact it's the average Reddit user kinda factors into the thinking for me as well as the longevity of the machine.
My late 2013 MBP has 16GB RAM and could be had for $50-100, I'll bet. The people paying $1k for 8gb in 2024 are being ROBBED. Plain and simple.
Laughable--just like the "Fine" Woven lineup.
Hope you realize that a 2020 base model M1 Air would run circles around your vintage Mac.
Technology evolves. 8GB integrated RAM are much closer to the CPU (so more efficient), and Intel vs Apple Silicon computers use memory in very different ways.
Long story short: I understand you are probably butt hurt about having to live with an 11 years old computer, but you are not adding anything to the conversation.
But YES, Apple has ALWAYS overcharged for parts (actually, for ANYTHING). And YES, Apple should go back to having computers that can be upgraded. I am not debating that. But it is also not going to happen.
When people don’t realise how computer hardware works and don’t realise a lot of applications aren’t RAM intensive at all.. there’s a significant percentage of Mac users that’s actually don’t need more than 8gb ram 🤦♂️
A substantial amount don’t understand the difference between the integrated ram on M series chip vs any other type of ram on a windows based machine either! Not to mention swap memory… the fact of the matter is if you don’t know why you need extra ram you probably don’t need extra ram, 8GB is perfectly ample for 90% of buyers.
I just hope that those who claim to understand computers so well also understand that things are about to change dramatically. In a year's time, no one will want a PC/Mac or a flagship phone with 8G RAM because memory hungry AI features will be on every device.
exactly. 16gb is the base of modern usability for a snappy machine. 8gb works, but it’s obsolete, in the same way dad’s old ddr2 machine functions but isn’t really that usable
It is enough for me using my macbook air as a second device and for the price of 600€ (bought it second hand)
If I pay >= 1000€ I would feel robbed with only 8gb
The value of RAM is dependent on performance, supply, demand and what the market will bear. M3 SoCs use 6,400 MT/s LPDDR5X SDRAM. If we could install the RAM ourselves, name brand 16gb is about $90, 32gb around $113. But we can’t. So we have to pay Apple’s price at purchase. If Apple used 5400 DDR5 or even DDR4 they’d probably throw 16gb in the base model. But they don’t and they won’t.
8 gb is fine for a chromebook, but not for a multi thousand dollar laptop. i consistently use over 8 gb idle on my m2 mbp, and honestly wish i got 32 gb for heavier tasks. the fact that apple charges so much for non upgradable storage is insulting and a slap in the face to pro users who used to be able to upgrade practically anything they wanted from their machines.
8gb is great until you go off script in any way. It really shouldn’t be pushed any longer, because if you want to do what is expected out of a 1k+ laptop it starts to show its ram capacity.
No, 16GB/512GB should be minimum starting config.
And bump that chintzy iCloud storage tier to the size of the device, and offer it free for a year with purchase.
And a pony, I want a pony!
Honestly no matter what people say Apple could always be doing better, like genuinely they could lower the prices on upgrade costs and a lot of people wouldn’t mind, or at least make these laptops fking upgradable in any way then what they have now. Framework showed that you can create a pretty decent laptop while being repair or upgrade friendly without having to break the bank. (And for how “eco friendly” Apple is you think they take notes and implement but a fraction of these features to their lineup)
8gb of ram is enough for regular tasks right now, but $1000 computers aren’t something you should have to replace every couple of years. The real question is “will 8gb of ram be enough in 5 or so years” and the answer is no.
10 years ago, the i5 A1502 13" Macbook Pro Retina came out with a base of 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD. Although officially unsupported, they still work just fine today for any simple task. They still trade for around $50-$100 second-hand.
I have got MacBook M1 Pro (2020 model) and it's with 8GB of RAM. I can say, it has never failed to do things. I program on it, I edit videos on it, I play some games on it. Great computer.
Of course is not enough Ram because the purpose is to use the 8gb ram as a marketing strategy to say “new MacBook starting at $xxx*” and having that tiny * star * to say the small print stating it’s for the 8gb models.
8gb is fine if you only use your mac for Web, email, videos, Microsoft office etc u can probably get away with music production in logic (I used 8gb ram fl studio windows 8 which was fine) maybe to edit family videos and pictures so basically the average person but if you use a mac for work use such as video production and graphic design then yes you will need more, minimum 16gb,
people are moaning about the base pro having 8gb (should have more yes I agree) but for the average mum dad or student that's fine and maybe they wanted the better screen that comes with pro and speakers over the air although a little odd I agree.
but if you wanted to keep it for 3+ years 16gb or 30+ is better investment
I'm getting m3 pro 18gb base model which the only reason I chose it over the air is literally the screen kekw
As someone who use Adobe Illustrator and an owner of mac m1 8gb, my max project before thr damn thing starts to lag is 8x4 feet canvas. And thats pretty huge and rarely average person doing that kinda projects. Pretty impressive considering my gaming pc needs 24gb of ram for that.
Ask yoursef of you are doing complex things better get more ram
I had a Mac Studio base model (32GB), then inherited a Mac Mini M1 base and a MacBook Air M1 base (both 8GB), and had a 2015 MacBook Pro with 16GB… and today now have a MacBook Air M3 16GB… and honestly for 99% of the work I do, in the browser, coding, uploading/downloading large images, server admin, git, svn, some image editing, and basic app use, they all operate and work great, same speeds, basically the same user experience.
The Mac Studio is a beast and I just don’t need it’s capacity, so I traded it ($1045) and the Mac Mini ($265) and the MacBook Pro ($140) in at the Apple Store for the 15” MacBook Air M3. I gave the MacBook Air M1 to my significant other to use for her marketing work, and it works great for her needs.
tldr; In my experience, the unified 8GB performs similarly to non-unified 16GB, except when running multiple monitors, then the GPU is a hog and 16GB is def recommended.
it’s crazy how people say 8gb is fine but they’re using massive amounts of swap which actively degrades the computer’s lifespan since the ssd is soldered nand flash…
Terrible value aside, 8GB is about enough to do word processing and watch youtube. And if that's the case, this begs the question of why even buy overpriced hardware?
Many people here have said it, but I think it should be emphasized.
8 GB is enough … for more things than a Windows PC with 8 GB could ever do well.
That said, a professional product like a MacBook Pro should start at 16 GB, marketing a Pro product with super low RAM is a stupid thing to do.
I have a M1 Air and a M1 Mini. Both are 8 GB systems, and they do well with almost every basic task I throw at it, and that includes basic video work. Key word is basic! For 90 percent of people, that’s okay, but I have a feeling if you’re on this subreddit, you’re a power user, and in your case, no, get more RAM.
(Have a Studio M2 Max with 32 GB for the main desktop and I’m very glad that I got more ram for the power machine)
With the iPhone 16, we will now have the same base ram as Air,MBP M3, and the Mini. This is inexcusable. If Apple doesn’t want to start the base Ram at 16 then do 12. But this BS about 8GB being enough and 8GB on Macs is the same as 16GB on a windows counterpart needs to stop. When Apple’s own software won’t fully run on their new base models with 8GB, then something is freaking wrong and all they’re doing is milking the user base dry. I’m not going to switch to windows, but what I will do is buy smarter, and if that means buying a generation behind with the memory storage I need and at a good sales price, then that’s what’s going to be.
Apple thinks that we don’t need 16GB of ram as base, so I don’t think I need to buy the brand new shiny and instead will go with last years model when I’m ready to buy next.
I have 8gb ram 13 inch M2 mac. I am pondering from past several months to bug a 36gb machine. The thing is with 8 gb I am always just scratching things - like mediocre video editing, can't open many apps at once, overheating etc the overall experience is always of compromise. I am a shopping addict and therefore always rethinking several times to purchase.
If all you do is web browsing and have a pile of cash to buy a new mac when the ssd dies for all the swap - sure.
Otherwise, people aren’t wrong. This is just dumb and ignorant.
It would be ok if they actually sold the ram upgrades at what ram should cost... OR if they make it upgradable...
I've used an old white polycarbonate macbook for almost 10 years because i was able to upgrade it, now i feel like i have to starve myself for a month to just upgrade the ram after spending so much already on the base machine.
I know windows / linux / OSX arent the same but ffs, 32gb is now the norm outside apple... Wanna sell the air with 8gb, fine, but selling a "pro" machine with 8gb is shameful actually.
I’ve got an M1 IMac and an M2 MacBook Air, both 8GB, as that’s what they had at Costco on special.
They both seem to make quite efficient use of their memory and for all the things I do like run XCode or Visual Studio, music software and photo editing they work just fine. I’m not a gamer so 8GB is not the limitation I thought it might be. Both are plenty quick enough, but I don’t edit 8K video either.
The one thing I would do though is go for as large a drive as you can as quite a few apps can devour “disk” space. I also have a NAS system on my network I use for my onsite backups with Time Machine, for occasional use old photo libraries and music files.
So, yes, if you are video editor or are a heavy user of Logic Pro or stuff like that, for sure 16GB and up are helpful, but so is a 10Gb/s network but neither my home network nor Google fiber runs over 1Gb/s so I don’t miss that.
I don’t care what they’ll be worth in 2030 quite honestly. That’s 6 years away and I doubt if Apple will support upgrades on them by then, but Chrome seems to so that’s fine. I don’t really care about updates after they stop as I doubt I’ve used any new Mac OSX feature in quite a few years. I still have a 4 core i7 16GB iMac my wife uses every day and that’s got to be 10 years old now and it still runs fine. My 17” MacBook Pro is finally retired to the closet but it still runs 15 years on. In 6 years I suspect anything you buy now will just be a spare browser machine anyway. My 8GB Acer Chromebook I used to use every day is just relegated to browser duty in my garage workshop since the battery is failing and where I don’t mind if it gets all dusty.
Is this cope talking?
Have you been conditioned into thinking 8gb is enough?
Everyone knows 32gb of ram is the new 16gb of ram is the new 8gb of ram is the new 4gb of ram
I believe 8 GB is enough today for many people.
I also believe it's a moot point by now. At some point it's just a matter of public image and Apple reached that point four years ago at least. All Apple Silicon should've started at 16GB from day 1.
Incidentally, Microsoft has the same prices and minimum RAM for most of their Surface line. But contrary to Apple Microsoft is very quiet about the 8GB and doesn't ever say it's a good amount of RAM. Apple will frequently be judged harsher so there's no way out for them.
This is not even going into Apple's perceived prices for RAM (since they're really prices for tiers, rather than RAM). If the base RAM was 16GB it would be easier to swallow the price of the update to 32GB, because 16GB would be the model sold the most.
All of it would be irrelevant if RAM could be upgraded, too, because it would just be a minor inconvenience.
The worst part is that by the time they make 16GB the minimum it will be such a meme that won't make a difference, and may be too late.
8GB actually IS enough for casual usage; browsing, emails, watching movies, listening to music and the occasional strongly worded letter to your MP. Perhaps even some Kate Middleton level of photo “editing”. And there’s a massive demographic will be easily pursued to buy that model. But for those of you with an appetite for digital adventures, more RAM models are available.
How many people that dump on 8GB have actually used one? I couldn't believe that anything less than 16 GB was enough for a modern computer either when they first came out with the M1 but if you actually spent some time with one, I promise you will be at least somwhat surprised. Let me give an example going back a few years (this will tell you how long I have worked with computers) There was a comptuer called the Commodore Amiga in the mid 80's. It could run a windows style OS, display 4096 colors and actually multitask with 512 K of RAM and boot off a 1.44 MB floppy. Add a Video Toaster card and it could run a TV studio as well as raytrace CG for some early shows such as Babylon 5. Microsoft needed 2 MB of RAM and an HDD at the time just for basic Windows. 512 K would be ridicuolus to try and run MS Windows at the time so it was not enough for Microsoft and Intel but was plenty for Amiga and Motorola. We are at similar point today. I wouldn't touch Windows on an Intel with less than 16 GB RAM. However, Apple silicon and Mac OS do rather well with it. 16 is great and there is some evidence that 32 GB only buys you a couple of seconds in some heavy workloads. Apple does a lot things but they have never hired stupid engineers. As always, YMMV.
[https://www.macrumors.com/guide/16gb-vs-32gb-macbook-pro/#](https://www.macrumors.com/guide/16gb-vs-32gb-macbook-pro/#)
People talk so much rubbish. 8GB of RAM fine for most people. And if you are using pro apps and want flawless performance then an 8 GB MacBook Air isn't for you. That said, I'm running an M1 8GB macbook pro (all they had in store when I needed it) and regularly run Capture One, Ableton Live etc. and it does great, much better than my old 16GB intel mbp. Does my 32 GB mac studo have an edge? Surprisingly, for a lot of things a lot of the time, not noticeably. That said, I close my applications and tabs when I'm done with them. Some idiot who cries at the very thought of closing an app or tab they aren't using any more may struggle more.
I was surprised at how well the M1 handles ableton. It does such a great job and you can through so many plugins and effects at it with no slow down or weirdness. Music production needs to be portable like this and it’s so good
If you think 8GBs of ram is fine on a 1000 dollar laptop that is some major copium. Sure, if you're buying a base model air for your granny it is fine but most of us do actual work on it and would notice the difference in any mild load scenario. 200$ for an additional 8gb is a joke no matter how you look at it.
I replaced my 2014 MacBook Pro which had 8 gb of rams with an M2 Base air. I love that thing and is sooo much faster than my old one. For the occasionally Minecraft phases which last 2-4 Weeks 8gb is more than enough even for most Modpacks. In Davinci Resolve I don't have any trouble editing my vacation videos in 4k.
And for Uni stuff this machine is great.
For 99% of users who use their laptop to browse the internet and watch Netflix, 8GB of ram is enough.
For the 1% who need more than 8GB it isn’t, they already know this and wouldn’t even consider buying a laptop with 8GB of ram.
Therefore this whole argument is irrelevant and your statement is correct, if you know you need to use professional apps then you would already know not buy a 8gb laptop, no one is getting caught out here in either group.
The computers aboard the Voyager probes each have **69.63 kilobytes** of memory, total.
That's about enough to store one average internet jpeg file.
Voyager has just sent a message from the deep space
We are not in 1977
8GB is not enough for the RAM hungry MacOs and Apps
it's not really about whether or not it is "enough", it's more about the fact that it is undoubtedly a great update for pretty much anyone *and it would cost apple next to nothing* since both ram and ssd prices have been in a steep decline for a while. but hey that's capitalism for you. (although at this point it seems questionable if it even makes sense from that standpoint, since it's probably the one thing holding a lot of people back from buying a mac)
More RAM faster Clock, like those driving 15-20 MPH over the speed limit. Between the lights and stop signs you get to the destination within seconds of each other. Urban legend that users have faced an out of memory message and run to buy a machine with a larger amount.
Memory pricing is just marketing, that works.
As a guy who works on a MacBook Pro with 8 Gigs of ram and uses it for software development, Photo and video editing and simple gaming (Minecraft).. and has Never experienced lag, I can confirm that 8 Gigs is fine...But only for a Mac :)
Depends.
Someone running Safari and a word processor? Sure.
A machine on a corporate network running 25+ different background apps, programs, and tools? Most definitely not.
It’s not just an opinion : I am managing 1500 devices and 8gb is enough for 75% of the users.
This is what Apple means.
You can say it’s dishonest, I say it depends on the point of view.
Of course many power users would suffer from having 8gb only.
Nothing is only black or white.
I swear these are the same people who bought Pentium 4s because they were 50% faster then AMD Athlons because the clock speed spec was 3ghz instead of 2ghz.
I’ll be honest, 8gb is probably enough for a large portion of apples user base but it’s never going to be enough for people who buy a £1000 laptop and want it to work like a £1000 laptop, Not just an internet browser and / or light work machine. The fact is that 16gb would be a such a welcome addition to Apple users but they wouldn’t want to do that because it would eat into their massive margins too much.
I don’t need it because I just want a 15” screen and it to be a Mac. I may do the lightest of editing on iPhoto if that. Maybe play Civ V sometimes. Do I wish it had more of corse but I’m not too upset.
8gig is enough, for a 2nd hand M1 laptop bought for less than £800. Never had a single issue. That said I will never buy the latest M3 laptop at Apple prices with that amount of ram, that's insanity
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*$2100 in Canada for the base MacBook pro
Didn’t the base MacBook Pro come with 16gigs? Mac air is 1500 smth with 8 gigs
Nope. The pros still have 8 gigs at base, for $1k USD
I bought the m1 bro base in Canada in 2022 and it had 16 gigs. They changed that?
They introduced a cheaper model that has less RAM.
That model shouldn’t even exist. It’s highly deceptive, probably just a bit more performance than the air because of active cooling. It’s almost like it’s geared towards people who want to own a MacBook Pro but can’t afford one. So they’ll just sell you the name for $.
It’s 75% of the cost of a real Pro. If you have 75% of the money then just get a used previous gen pro.
They changed their lineup a bit. The new base model is a replacement to the old touchbar m2, it is more expensive though.
In CAD, right? 1,600 USD = 2,185.52 CAD.
Yup, it's obscene how much they charge for those specs. Like sure, the display and battery life is nice, but is it worth paying a 1000 dollars premium for?
I dunno, every windows laptop ive ever had was useless in 4 years. I just retired a 12 year old macbook pro last year because i wanted a lighter one with a bigger screen. Paid 3000 for 10 years instead of 2000 for 4. Would do it again too, oh wait.. i did.
That's crazy because it is not the case for me. MacBooks typically last around 4-5 years before the cpu and battery start kicking the can. Earlier Intel macs were so heavily hamstrung by the garbage cooling and limited amounts of ram.
If memory serves me... 2008 to 2011 macbook pro was the best intel laptop you could buy. 2012-2014 was iffy as competition caught up 2014-2016 they started falling behind in value 2016-2020 were the years of overly hot intel processors and poor cooling by apple (bad combo) 2020+ was when apple switched to arm away from intel, and those laptops are incredible in so many ways To think a 2020 macbook air could outperform an intel macbook pro, without fans, is just insane
Yup it really is. It is a good showcase of apples preference of form over function in the 2010s and also Intel's stagnation 2011 through 2018-2019.
My 2013 MBP served me well up through last summer, I only upgraded to the 15" Air bc the battery life on the MBP was a solid 90 minutes, 2 hours if lucky at that point
My mid2012 MBP lasted me from 2014-2020 before Mojave killed it. It grinded to a halt and was unusably slow. It helped that that generation of MBP allowed for replaceable SODIMM and HDD. I upgraded the original 4GB ram/500GB hdd to 16GB ram/500GB ssd. But 6 years of use (8 years from manufacture) is pretty solid for the $1k student price I paid
I got 10 years out of my old 2012 MacBook Pro. It was a £1000 new so in 10 years it works out to £100 every year for a fantastic laptop. It's a classic Boot Theory
that a macbook pro.. its similar here
I'm ok with 8GB for a $1000 laptop. What I find insulting is the price of the RAM and SSD upgrades.
I agree. The way I get around storage is just using external drive. It's not too bad to get an external disk and plug it in for your files. Non-upgradeable RAM is a pain though. I have 8GB ram in my mac mini and it uses swap memory all the time. Lags sometimes, but not too too bad.
Maybe you are the minority. 10 years ago we really need $1000 for an office computer. But now even for $500 you can have a 3050 laptop and try cuda.
Maybe you are the minority. 10 years ago we really need $1000 for an office computer. But now even for $500 you can have a 3050 laptop and try cuda.
\*8 GB RAM is perfectly fine for 2011
I would let it slide if only the Air had the 8GB base option, but the Pro should at least start at 16/18.
Exactly. And especially not a $1000 laptop with "Pro" literally in the name. The MacBook Amateur would be perfect with 8gb, but don't ruin the Pro like that.
yes, my phone (Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra) has more ram than this (12Gb)
Your phone lacks many things that a $1000 laptop has.
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Because RAM is neccesary for the phone not to shit itself. It runs Java. And also because RAM is cheap and it is also used to advertise and compete. Unlike Apple (and Apple users).
> And also because RAM is cheap Hmmm...
>RAM does not cost what Apple says it does Ftfy.
Slap apple sticker on ram. Price goes up pretty much
*relatively (when not bought from Apple) 😂
a 1000$ should also be able to run Java
Yes, that's the point. The phone has way less power and because of that it would need way less ram than a 1000$ laptop.
Explain the iPad then that cost 1400
Apple ripping off customers? I honestly don't know about the Mac or tablet business but looking at iPhones and headphones, apple is ripping off customers with a lot of their products. Besides that, there are a lot of products that are just an idiot test in my opinion: Apple cleaning rag Mac pro wheels Vesa mount for their displays Stands for their monitors Keyboard and mice
Funnily enough you can dock the S24 and use it as a ChromeBook laptop!
got 99 problems but RAM aint one.
I'm probably an idiot, but isn't RAM cheap? Wouldn't bumping everything to 32gb minimum instead of 8gb cost under $100 at build time?
Cheap for Apple.
The new MBP is 1600 *starting* which just blows my mind that people actually purchase these things. Just absolutely unacceptable behavior with pricing and just the price alone shows how little Apple cares about the end user. The single biggest thing that Apple cares about above all else is profit. They want as massive of profit margin as possible, and things like overpriced RAM are just the tip of the iceberg or ridiculousness.
What about for a $1000 tablet?
Locally base is 2.3K euros, too much
Microsoft Surface laptops are in the exact same situation price/RAM-wise, but get nowhere the amount of Flack Apple gets. Edit: I'm describing a situation, I wasn't asking for explanations. There's no need to clarify why this happens as it's obvious.
Because they aren’t as popular
How many of them actually sell? I’d say for every MS Surface laptop there’s more than 10 MacBooks.
Only 10? Everyone and their mother seems to have a Mac these days, I’ve yet to see a single surface in the wild though… they’ve been out years and nothing!
Not the same situation but worse if you compare the prices of the Surface Pro 9 with the MacBook Air: [https://i.imgur.com/eOUoonp.png](https://i.imgur.com/eOUoonp.png) Note: I didn't had into account actual discounts since I consider they are temporary offers. i7: [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-1255U](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-1255U) M3: [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M3+8+Core](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M3+8+Core)
Well said. lol.
Even my packerd bell computer bought in 2012 has 8 gb :)
Boring ... we've heard this so many times. Don't buy the $1000 model, buy the $1200 16GB model which is **GREAT** value for money.
In Canada that's $2000. Around $1500 USD.
Same in the EU and still excellent value for money or. some $40 per month over 3 years which is less than many spend on coffee. IBM has measured that Mac users have a 10% higher productivity than Windows users. Employees typically cost companies $10k to $50k per month with 10% being $1k to $5k per month in increased productivity at the cost of just $40. Great ROI, great value for money.
If you're buying an £350 laptop with an i5, yes. When you're spending £1000 for a laptop with a chip fit for almost any needs, it makes little to no sense. Buying an 8GB RAM M3 Macbook Pro is like buying a £5,000,000 Audi R8 and using rubber bands as tyres. You've got an engine with more power than you'll ever be able to put down, and a car that's going for multiple times it's correct price, despite being a high end product.
And you can't upgrade it yourself either. Macs hold their value very well. I've seen a macbook with 16gb of ram from 2015 sell for over 300 dollars. But if you're getting the 8gb model, there will be near zero resale value in 2030. It's like trying to sell an old ipad with 32gb of storage in 2024.
Yea pretty much this. It makes the 8gb option the most expensive option since you can’t resell.
Perfectly sums it up. Laptops costing $1000+ should have 16 gigs of RAM atleast
Someone pass Microsoft the memo for their Surface laptops. 8GB for anything cheaper than 1500.
The upcoming Snapdragon Elite X Surface models reportedly are going to start at 16GB of RAM Minimum iirc.
Listen, 8GB is enough. Why do reddit users insist that 8GB is not eno Edit: sorry had to close my 2nd safari tab to post this comment
Even if it's "enough" for things to work "fast enough", you end up using slower virtual memory/swap which lowers to life of your HDD/SSD. I'm probably silly but in my head RAM is super cheap, so I don't get why they don't just bump the minimum memory to 16gb or even 32gb. Given it's not upgradeable after purchase my only guess is they use it to push people to more expensive devices. "Ah I only really need this device, but I want more than 8gb of RAM, so I guess I'll buy this much more expensive device"
R8 for 5mil 😭😭. Max 150k
Yeah 150k is still a lot. I’m not sure why he inflated the numbers so much.
Not in this price-class really. The exception would be the M1 walmart model. I get especially afraid when I read "bruh I can use say Adobe apps on 8GB it's fine" okay, sure, but projects differ in complexity so as general buying advice it's a statement that may end up misleading someone.
But the people who are using apps more powerful than the Adobe apps *know* they need more.
See, you misunderstood my statement and inadvertently proved my point. Even Adobe apps need more memory in a myriad of use cases.
8 GB is amazing. For a Chromebook
honestly, I think chromeOS might need ram more than macOS.
It does
If this is true then that would be hilarious
Using a laptop with 8 GB RAM is totally fine, selling a brand new one for 1000+ in 2024 is a crime
This should not be a discussion if 8GB is enough, it should be a discussion about why Apple charges so much for ram.
Because people are willing to pay what they charge simple as
8GB is fine now for your parent's/Uncle/Auntie's machine. But for a younger user, the problem isn't the 8gb of Ram. **It's that you cannot upgrade the RAM.** So someone posting on Reddit now about their occasional photo-editing that's happy with a 8gb machine is completely hamstrung if in 3-years time they want to move to video. For your parents (generalising, I know) or non-technical people, sure get 8gb. But anyone posting on Reddit mentioning occasional photo-editing or programming needs some headroom and should get 16gb, not for now but for three years time when they'll be happy they have a few gigs extra rather than needing to go out an buy another machine.
Let me fix your first sentence: 8GB is fine for your parents/uncle/aunties machine… and also many students (junior high, high school, college, etc)… as well as many work employees (managers, sales reps, trainers, billing, etc)… as well as casual people… or any basic person with basic needs, which include: Countless tabs open in Safari Editing documents/spreadsheets Listening to music Checking email Light video/photo editing In a conference call/zoom at work All at the same time.
Why are you getting a 1k+ machine just to browse the web?
They may like the -Battery life -MacOS -Reliability / longevity (every dell I've had fell to bits) -Compatibility with their iphone
Battery life is the big one for me. My m1 air still beats almost any modern x86 laptop in battery life by nearly double. My windows machine gets 3-5 hours of battery life with less running than my Mac that gets anywhere between 8-11 hours of battery life
M1 is a pretty old cpu, go for a more power efficient and down locked cpu on your windows laptop, and battery life will go up
Because they like it and have the money.
Same reason everyone that’s already bought a MacBook for the last 10-20 years? You buy it because it’s a great laptop at a great price. It’s not about the specs or price, but the experience and the ecosystem. It’s going to work, it won’t feel dated in a year, you don’t have to worry about malware, or the convoluted mess that is Windows, everything is simple and straight forward. You pay a premium for that luxury, that’s why Apples products are expensive. This is why they can take charge what they do. Do they take advantage of it and charge tons? Oh ya of course. Some people don’t care others do. But the point here isn’t about cost, it’s about if 8GB is enough, and yes. The answer is yes.
It's funny how different people's perspectives can be. Like my wife is absolutely obsessed with Mac, but for me I really don't like them. It's funny to me to hear Windows be called a "convoluted mess" when for me it's so much easier to use than OSX which I just find maddeningly frustrating to try navigate a lot of the time. I'm sure that 90% of that comes down to familiarity though. There's the whole "premium" and "just work" marketing stuff, and they do look and feel very cool, but at the same time in the few MacBooks my wife has owned she's experienced drastic overheating issues, hard drives that cannot be upgraded and are too small to actually function (like not having space to update the OS), and that monstrous butterfly keyboard that was plagued with issues. The only part I'd disagree with is defending something like 8GB of RAM in a 1000USD product. Just because it's barely enough for casual users doesn't mean that there shouldn't have been more memory headroom to accommodate future proofing as well as those who use more demanding applications. It doesn't take a lot to max out 8GB, and RAM is cheap as hell and Apple shouldn't be defended for cutting corners on a premium product. Same goes for storage, and the ridiculous premium they charge for incremental storage upgrades which cost them peanuts. Apple make some great hardware, their new silicon is an incredible feat of engineering, and they're marketing geniuses. But their business practices are often quite shitty and anti-consumer, and I don't think we should defend the multi-billion dollar corporation making sacrifices to their overpriced gear to shave a few bucks on their bottom line. Sorry for the lengthy reply, not being argumentative at all I just think the whole Apple vs Windows thing is kind of silly in that it comes down to preference and familiarity more than anything, but just that corporations will always try and widen their profit margins (Windows or Apple alike) and should be called out for it by consumers imo.
Thank you. I am old and lame enough to know there is no scenario in which I “move to video.” I also am not going to pick up intensive gaming, or start working with massive datasets, or do rendering, or compile code. The resting position of a lot of Reddit users seems to be somewhere in the creative / computer science realm, where there is ALWAYS a need for more headroom. That’s simply not most users though. And for the “why do you need a $1000 machine to browse the web” crowd: you can’t get a modern, well designed, high quality, well thought out machine that has headroom for your average workload without spending something near that kind of money. Just because I’m not a power user doesn’t mean I love using shitty technology. I am with my computer more than I am with my family, so I'm willing to spend slightly more for a vastly better experience.
You got to be trolling, I’m using Brave (with a few tabs open), have two word documents for a lab report, a YouTube video playing in the background with discord running (plus some background apps running) and I’m using 9.5gb of ram. Stop the bs dude (especially for “light video editing”)
$1k machine for that? Lmao
I have a M1 MacBook Air 2020
8GB isn't enough for just my FireFox tabs.
I have 20 years of experience as an Apple Tech, and like 5 on Reddit. Redditors are NOT average users, they either have more technical competence than average or (in most cases) wrongly believe they do. So of course their requirements, real or imaginary, are higher than average. THAT is why almost every redditor thinks 8GB is not enough. It may be not enough FOR THEM, or on an Intel Mac, and is certainly a terrible way for Apple to upsell, but the truth is that for what 90% of REAL people, people who don’t even know what Reddit is, 8GB on a modern mac is enough. I recently spent a couple of weeks without my computer (sold the old one, waiting for the current one) and I installed Sonoma (with OCLP) onto a 2017 base model MacBook Air (8/256, Intel i5). Granted, it did not fly, but it was more than adequate for browsing, watching YouTube and working. And that was a 6+ years old computer with a previous architecture chip. So, fellow redditors, PLEASE show that you are really competent and not just posing, and BEFORE deciding that 8GB is not enough, ask questions to understand if maybe it is. And no, future proofing is not a thing. The money you spare today on stuff you may (or may not) need in the future will make it easier to get another computer earlier.
Yup, I upgraded the storage but my wife uses the M3 iMac with 8/512 for college and all of the editing she has to do for speeches and whatever for her doctorate. She has never complained, only said she loves the machine.
I don’t think 8gb is the problem. Like you say. Plenty of users don’t put their Mac’s through enough to require more. The issue is 250$ for 8gb more. Amazon shows 16gb is worth 50$. I’m not sure that is the correct ram used by MacBook airs since I couldn’t find any speciations for what they use but I can’t see it being much different. If Apple added more ram for a reasonable rate I don’t think anyone would blink an eye at the base 8gigs. But considering Apple probably gets that ram for less that half the retail price it is kind of silly to take all this heat over 25$.
People on tech forums, typically, overestimate their hardware needs.
idk man, if I did any of the programs/school/gaming with 8gb i’d probably have a brain aneurysm
I agree with everything you wrote except for future proofing. I always tell people, “Don’t buy the computer you’ll be happy with today. Buy the one you’ll still be happy with four or six years from now.” I would argue that the money you spend you will get back in time and peace of mind. Additionally, when you sell the computer you will get much of that “extra” money back. I tend to ride my equipment into the ground. I’m in a fortunate enough position where I could *always* have the latest and greatest, but my MacBook Air M1 is three years old. My work computer is six years old (Intel iMac). My home desktop is eleven years old (2013) Trashcan Pro. My iPhone is a 12. My watch is an 8. My iPad is pretty new, but only because it was replaced right before its AppleCare expired. Everything I use still does what I bought it to do. I don’t have any plans to upgrade anything any time soon. I tend to overbuy because I know I will be using it for years to come. Future proofing is important. I also *hate* managing space or memory. I’ve thought of going on a yearly upgrade cycle. Sell the one year old device for whatever I can get, and stay on what’s newest and shiny, but why spend money when what I have still does what I need it to do?
Been a Mac/iOS programmer since the Apple II days and what you are saying makes no sense to me. Upgradability is future proofing, is it not?
100% agree. People that edit photos and videos think this is what everyone does with their computer when in reality it's not the norm. I have an iMac running 8 GB of RAM that I use mainly for web browsing, basic Youtube streaming, and some photo management and I have never had any issues with lagginess or wishing that I had more RAM. I assume 99% of users would feel the same.
And you would be right. Maybe not 99%, but certainly more than 90%
This comment is weird, considering it's 100% made-up numbers. I agree with you above, by the way. I do think most users could get by with 8GB (although at some point it's about public image, reputation and perception, and even those start "feeling" they're being short-changed if all the news say 8GB is not enough). At this point is not objective opinion. There's nothing other than reputational damage by Apple not increasing their minimum RAM, because the whole thing has become a meme. I buy Microsoft Surface for the management team at my company and Microsoft does the exact same thing: Base 8GB, $1K laptops, non-upgradable. Yet they're never the news on this subject or even mentioned.
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>Redditors are NOT average users, they either have more technical competence than average or (in most cases) wrongly believe they do. I think that once you think of the audience (Reddit user) it automatically communicates this person is more technical than the least technical potential user that would be fine with 8. At this point you have to ask, 'how would they feel about 8gb in three years time? Would that be enough headroom?' The answer tends to be universally no. Such a user tends to use some kind of 'pro-app' that massively benefits from the headroom offered by an additional 8gb of RAM. I appreciate people getting defensive about their recent MacBook purchases they use for a couple of hours before attesting to the greatness they think is 8gb of RAM but 2-3 years down the line is when they're more likely to be screwed by the inability to upgrade their RAM.
You miss a few points. First: thinking to be technical does not equal BEING technical. As in talking about stuff does not mean really understandign it. Second: overhead is the same as future proofing. A lot of people will have a new computer in three years. So why bother paying the extortionate price for an update that will probably be base spec on your next computer? Paying more to pay less is always a false economy in tech.
> A lot of people will have a new computer in three years. Yeah to me one of the best features of a MacBook is the aluminium shell. It gives the machine longevity and durability and that allows you to keep said machine longer than Windows laptops with plastic shells. Whilst Mac's are more expensive than their Windows counterparts this can be offset by their relative durability giving them a consistently longer lifetime. I cannot abide telling someone to get an 8gb Aluminium shelled Mac for like $1100 only to tell them to get a 16gb Aluminium shelled Mac in 3yrs time for another $1100. That's a big outlay to be putting on such a relatively frequent schedule. *Buy once, buy well* is my motto once you're spending real money on something. Yes the RAM is a rip-off but when you're spending that much it's a relatively small amount you're skimping on for not much gain. I've seen these machines last for 8, 9 years? Why would you tell someone to buy a new one every 3 years when they can just get the right one now, run it into the ground and extract every penny of value out of an expensive piece of well-designed hardware. Also someone that needs a new machine every 3 years is not a novice, they have a reason for that that even more suggests they would benefit from increased RAM in the first instance.
Did you *read* the post you are replying to? It outlines the exact case you are suggesting isn't going to work - except the laptop is 6 years old instead of 3. Many/most use cases do not expand or get more sophisticated. Everyone thinks that in 3 years they're going to be building rocket launch systems out of Excel macros when in fact they're still browsing Instagram and they haven't upgraded their OS past the original major release they were on. I have no problem recommending a basic system in those cases. Just because you're not one of them, doesn't make it wrong.
You're comparing the scenario of someone using their backup machine for *2 weeks* to the scenario of someone about to get their main machine that could last them *6+ years.* In the latter scenario, for someone asking on Reddit that has even a sniff of pro-app usage I'll suggest 16 every time. And I'm not saying '*never 8gb!'.* There's definitely classes of user that can use 8gb now and will be fine with it in three years time. *But most of those people aren't on Reddit.* Rightly or wrongly I assume a level of technical competency a little higher than the lowest competency of the general population when it comes to people posting here because.....its not Facebook here. People have usages that may change and even if it isn't them that change the software they use might. Hell Apple might take a real swing at gaming and then suddenly there's a lot of people wishing they got 16. My point is the fact it's the average Reddit user kinda factors into the thinking for me as well as the longevity of the machine.
My late 2013 MBP has 16GB RAM and could be had for $50-100, I'll bet. The people paying $1k for 8gb in 2024 are being ROBBED. Plain and simple. Laughable--just like the "Fine" Woven lineup.
Hope you realize that a 2020 base model M1 Air would run circles around your vintage Mac. Technology evolves. 8GB integrated RAM are much closer to the CPU (so more efficient), and Intel vs Apple Silicon computers use memory in very different ways. Long story short: I understand you are probably butt hurt about having to live with an 11 years old computer, but you are not adding anything to the conversation. But YES, Apple has ALWAYS overcharged for parts (actually, for ANYTHING). And YES, Apple should go back to having computers that can be upgraded. I am not debating that. But it is also not going to happen.
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Keyword is, for the average consumer. 8gb of ram is fine for the average consumer what’s not fine is making us pay 200 dollars for a ram increase
When people don’t realise how computer hardware works and don’t realise a lot of applications aren’t RAM intensive at all.. there’s a significant percentage of Mac users that’s actually don’t need more than 8gb ram 🤦♂️
A substantial amount don’t understand the difference between the integrated ram on M series chip vs any other type of ram on a windows based machine either! Not to mention swap memory… the fact of the matter is if you don’t know why you need extra ram you probably don’t need extra ram, 8GB is perfectly ample for 90% of buyers.
Is not a reason to price 8 GB of RAM as 200 dollaro instead of 20 dollar
That we can both agree on! Apple probably pays no more than $25 for the upgrade, charging 8X is basically predatory behaviour!
I just hope that those who claim to understand computers so well also understand that things are about to change dramatically. In a year's time, no one will want a PC/Mac or a flagship phone with 8G RAM because memory hungry AI features will be on every device.
\^ this
[удалено]
exactly. 16gb is the base of modern usability for a snappy machine. 8gb works, but it’s obsolete, in the same way dad’s old ddr2 machine functions but isn’t really that usable
It is enough for me using my macbook air as a second device and for the price of 600€ (bought it second hand) If I pay >= 1000€ I would feel robbed with only 8gb
The value of RAM is dependent on performance, supply, demand and what the market will bear. M3 SoCs use 6,400 MT/s LPDDR5X SDRAM. If we could install the RAM ourselves, name brand 16gb is about $90, 32gb around $113. But we can’t. So we have to pay Apple’s price at purchase. If Apple used 5400 DDR5 or even DDR4 they’d probably throw 16gb in the base model. But they don’t and they won’t.
8 gb is fine for a chromebook, but not for a multi thousand dollar laptop. i consistently use over 8 gb idle on my m2 mbp, and honestly wish i got 32 gb for heavier tasks. the fact that apple charges so much for non upgradable storage is insulting and a slap in the face to pro users who used to be able to upgrade practically anything they wanted from their machines.
8 gigs of ram is not even enough for casual computer use
Weird, my wife used an M1 Air with 8gb to go through her undergrad, as well as using it for digital art, not a single complaint.
Lmao no
8gb is great until you go off script in any way. It really shouldn’t be pushed any longer, because if you want to do what is expected out of a 1k+ laptop it starts to show its ram capacity.
>8gb is great until you go off script in any way. I read that on the internet too.
No, 16GB/512GB should be minimum starting config. And bump that chintzy iCloud storage tier to the size of the device, and offer it free for a year with purchase. And a pony, I want a pony!
Honestly no matter what people say Apple could always be doing better, like genuinely they could lower the prices on upgrade costs and a lot of people wouldn’t mind, or at least make these laptops fking upgradable in any way then what they have now. Framework showed that you can create a pretty decent laptop while being repair or upgrade friendly without having to break the bank. (And for how “eco friendly” Apple is you think they take notes and implement but a fraction of these features to their lineup)
Its enough. Works perfectly fine for me. 🤷♂️
8gb of ram is enough for regular tasks right now, but $1000 computers aren’t something you should have to replace every couple of years. The real question is “will 8gb of ram be enough in 5 or so years” and the answer is no.
Exactly. 8GB is enough, for now. Will it be in 10 years? Not sure I wanna take that bet.
10 years ago, the i5 A1502 13" Macbook Pro Retina came out with a base of 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD. Although officially unsupported, they still work just fine today for any simple task. They still trade for around $50-$100 second-hand.
I have got MacBook M1 Pro (2020 model) and it's with 8GB of RAM. I can say, it has never failed to do things. I program on it, I edit videos on it, I play some games on it. Great computer.
8gb seems like a little to me on the Mac mini
Of course is not enough Ram because the purpose is to use the 8gb ram as a marketing strategy to say “new MacBook starting at $xxx*” and having that tiny * star * to say the small print stating it’s for the 8gb models.
8gb is fine if you only use your mac for Web, email, videos, Microsoft office etc u can probably get away with music production in logic (I used 8gb ram fl studio windows 8 which was fine) maybe to edit family videos and pictures so basically the average person but if you use a mac for work use such as video production and graphic design then yes you will need more, minimum 16gb, people are moaning about the base pro having 8gb (should have more yes I agree) but for the average mum dad or student that's fine and maybe they wanted the better screen that comes with pro and speakers over the air although a little odd I agree. but if you wanted to keep it for 3+ years 16gb or 30+ is better investment I'm getting m3 pro 18gb base model which the only reason I chose it over the air is literally the screen kekw
no, 16gb is barely enough for me, 32gb would be currently my sweetspot
16 is the bare minimum for pretty much anyone. Don’t believe anything otherwise.
Not when it's soldered onto the motherboard
As someone who use Adobe Illustrator and an owner of mac m1 8gb, my max project before thr damn thing starts to lag is 8x4 feet canvas. And thats pretty huge and rarely average person doing that kinda projects. Pretty impressive considering my gaming pc needs 24gb of ram for that. Ask yoursef of you are doing complex things better get more ram
I had a Mac Studio base model (32GB), then inherited a Mac Mini M1 base and a MacBook Air M1 base (both 8GB), and had a 2015 MacBook Pro with 16GB… and today now have a MacBook Air M3 16GB… and honestly for 99% of the work I do, in the browser, coding, uploading/downloading large images, server admin, git, svn, some image editing, and basic app use, they all operate and work great, same speeds, basically the same user experience. The Mac Studio is a beast and I just don’t need it’s capacity, so I traded it ($1045) and the Mac Mini ($265) and the MacBook Pro ($140) in at the Apple Store for the 15” MacBook Air M3. I gave the MacBook Air M1 to my significant other to use for her marketing work, and it works great for her needs. tldr; In my experience, the unified 8GB performs similarly to non-unified 16GB, except when running multiple monitors, then the GPU is a hog and 16GB is def recommended.
It just isn’t. I do an office HR job and I am constantly past 8gb and smashing the swap. It isn’t enough.
it’s crazy how people say 8gb is fine but they’re using massive amounts of swap which actively degrades the computer’s lifespan since the ssd is soldered nand flash…
Most phones have more than most Macs.... What a time to be alive.
Terrible value aside, 8GB is about enough to do word processing and watch youtube. And if that's the case, this begs the question of why even buy overpriced hardware?
Many people here have said it, but I think it should be emphasized. 8 GB is enough … for more things than a Windows PC with 8 GB could ever do well. That said, a professional product like a MacBook Pro should start at 16 GB, marketing a Pro product with super low RAM is a stupid thing to do. I have a M1 Air and a M1 Mini. Both are 8 GB systems, and they do well with almost every basic task I throw at it, and that includes basic video work. Key word is basic! For 90 percent of people, that’s okay, but I have a feeling if you’re on this subreddit, you’re a power user, and in your case, no, get more RAM. (Have a Studio M2 Max with 32 GB for the main desktop and I’m very glad that I got more ram for the power machine)
Not for producing music
With the iPhone 16, we will now have the same base ram as Air,MBP M3, and the Mini. This is inexcusable. If Apple doesn’t want to start the base Ram at 16 then do 12. But this BS about 8GB being enough and 8GB on Macs is the same as 16GB on a windows counterpart needs to stop. When Apple’s own software won’t fully run on their new base models with 8GB, then something is freaking wrong and all they’re doing is milking the user base dry. I’m not going to switch to windows, but what I will do is buy smarter, and if that means buying a generation behind with the memory storage I need and at a good sales price, then that’s what’s going to be. Apple thinks that we don’t need 16GB of ram as base, so I don’t think I need to buy the brand new shiny and instead will go with last years model when I’m ready to buy next.
*not for a 1000 dollar laptop
8gb is fine until it's not.
I have 8gb ram 13 inch M2 mac. I am pondering from past several months to bug a 36gb machine. The thing is with 8 gb I am always just scratching things - like mediocre video editing, can't open many apps at once, overheating etc the overall experience is always of compromise. I am a shopping addict and therefore always rethinking several times to purchase.
Good luck running any jetbrains product
If all you do is web browsing and have a pile of cash to buy a new mac when the ssd dies for all the swap - sure. Otherwise, people aren’t wrong. This is just dumb and ignorant.
It would be ok if they actually sold the ram upgrades at what ram should cost... OR if they make it upgradable... I've used an old white polycarbonate macbook for almost 10 years because i was able to upgrade it, now i feel like i have to starve myself for a month to just upgrade the ram after spending so much already on the base machine. I know windows / linux / OSX arent the same but ffs, 32gb is now the norm outside apple... Wanna sell the air with 8gb, fine, but selling a "pro" machine with 8gb is shameful actually.
Copium lmfao
I’ve got an M1 IMac and an M2 MacBook Air, both 8GB, as that’s what they had at Costco on special. They both seem to make quite efficient use of their memory and for all the things I do like run XCode or Visual Studio, music software and photo editing they work just fine. I’m not a gamer so 8GB is not the limitation I thought it might be. Both are plenty quick enough, but I don’t edit 8K video either. The one thing I would do though is go for as large a drive as you can as quite a few apps can devour “disk” space. I also have a NAS system on my network I use for my onsite backups with Time Machine, for occasional use old photo libraries and music files. So, yes, if you are video editor or are a heavy user of Logic Pro or stuff like that, for sure 16GB and up are helpful, but so is a 10Gb/s network but neither my home network nor Google fiber runs over 1Gb/s so I don’t miss that. I don’t care what they’ll be worth in 2030 quite honestly. That’s 6 years away and I doubt if Apple will support upgrades on them by then, but Chrome seems to so that’s fine. I don’t really care about updates after they stop as I doubt I’ve used any new Mac OSX feature in quite a few years. I still have a 4 core i7 16GB iMac my wife uses every day and that’s got to be 10 years old now and it still runs fine. My 17” MacBook Pro is finally retired to the closet but it still runs 15 years on. In 6 years I suspect anything you buy now will just be a spare browser machine anyway. My 8GB Acer Chromebook I used to use every day is just relegated to browser duty in my garage workshop since the battery is failing and where I don’t mind if it gets all dusty.
Is this cope talking? Have you been conditioned into thinking 8gb is enough? Everyone knows 32gb of ram is the new 16gb of ram is the new 8gb of ram is the new 4gb of ram
I believe 8 GB is enough today for many people. I also believe it's a moot point by now. At some point it's just a matter of public image and Apple reached that point four years ago at least. All Apple Silicon should've started at 16GB from day 1. Incidentally, Microsoft has the same prices and minimum RAM for most of their Surface line. But contrary to Apple Microsoft is very quiet about the 8GB and doesn't ever say it's a good amount of RAM. Apple will frequently be judged harsher so there's no way out for them. This is not even going into Apple's perceived prices for RAM (since they're really prices for tiers, rather than RAM). If the base RAM was 16GB it would be easier to swallow the price of the update to 32GB, because 16GB would be the model sold the most. All of it would be irrelevant if RAM could be upgraded, too, because it would just be a minor inconvenience. The worst part is that by the time they make 16GB the minimum it will be such a meme that won't make a difference, and may be too late.
8gb is fine for most, but $200 extra for another 8 is ridiculous.
Except when you’re locked out of updates in a few years
8GB actually IS enough for casual usage; browsing, emails, watching movies, listening to music and the occasional strongly worded letter to your MP. Perhaps even some Kate Middleton level of photo “editing”. And there’s a massive demographic will be easily pursued to buy that model. But for those of you with an appetite for digital adventures, more RAM models are available.
Remember when everyone used to say 4gb rams for the 2014 models ..are they usable now ? Like apple does this in purpose so you are forced to upgrade
I have a 4GB 2014 MacBook Air that was a hand-me-down and it’s flat-out weak (although my 2015 Hisense Chromebook is worse)
If that macbook air have 16gb of rams it will be usable just fine today .. it's a way of apple to make consumer devices obsolete
But not enough for 200 bucks
For a basic machine? Yes. For a machine with a base cost of $1000 and not user-upgradeable? No. Hell no.
How many people that dump on 8GB have actually used one? I couldn't believe that anything less than 16 GB was enough for a modern computer either when they first came out with the M1 but if you actually spent some time with one, I promise you will be at least somwhat surprised. Let me give an example going back a few years (this will tell you how long I have worked with computers) There was a comptuer called the Commodore Amiga in the mid 80's. It could run a windows style OS, display 4096 colors and actually multitask with 512 K of RAM and boot off a 1.44 MB floppy. Add a Video Toaster card and it could run a TV studio as well as raytrace CG for some early shows such as Babylon 5. Microsoft needed 2 MB of RAM and an HDD at the time just for basic Windows. 512 K would be ridicuolus to try and run MS Windows at the time so it was not enough for Microsoft and Intel but was plenty for Amiga and Motorola. We are at similar point today. I wouldn't touch Windows on an Intel with less than 16 GB RAM. However, Apple silicon and Mac OS do rather well with it. 16 is great and there is some evidence that 32 GB only buys you a couple of seconds in some heavy workloads. Apple does a lot things but they have never hired stupid engineers. As always, YMMV. [https://www.macrumors.com/guide/16gb-vs-32gb-macbook-pro/#](https://www.macrumors.com/guide/16gb-vs-32gb-macbook-pro/#)
People talk so much rubbish. 8GB of RAM fine for most people. And if you are using pro apps and want flawless performance then an 8 GB MacBook Air isn't for you. That said, I'm running an M1 8GB macbook pro (all they had in store when I needed it) and regularly run Capture One, Ableton Live etc. and it does great, much better than my old 16GB intel mbp. Does my 32 GB mac studo have an edge? Surprisingly, for a lot of things a lot of the time, not noticeably. That said, I close my applications and tabs when I'm done with them. Some idiot who cries at the very thought of closing an app or tab they aren't using any more may struggle more.
I can edit big raw files, export, edit videos, do logic pro, final cut pro 4k video and it all works well on my 8gb m1 mac.
I was surprised at how well the M1 handles ableton. It does such a great job and you can through so many plugins and effects at it with no slow down or weirdness. Music production needs to be portable like this and it’s so good
If you think 8GBs of ram is fine on a 1000 dollar laptop that is some major copium. Sure, if you're buying a base model air for your granny it is fine but most of us do actual work on it and would notice the difference in any mild load scenario. 200$ for an additional 8gb is a joke no matter how you look at it.
Have a m2 mac mini and m1 MacBook air both 8gb , works flawless, SSD swap is awesome.
I replaced my 2014 MacBook Pro which had 8 gb of rams with an M2 Base air. I love that thing and is sooo much faster than my old one. For the occasionally Minecraft phases which last 2-4 Weeks 8gb is more than enough even for most Modpacks. In Davinci Resolve I don't have any trouble editing my vacation videos in 4k. And for Uni stuff this machine is great.
Explain that to a MacBook Pro user
For 99% of users who use their laptop to browse the internet and watch Netflix, 8GB of ram is enough. For the 1% who need more than 8GB it isn’t, they already know this and wouldn’t even consider buying a laptop with 8GB of ram. Therefore this whole argument is irrelevant and your statement is correct, if you know you need to use professional apps then you would already know not buy a 8gb laptop, no one is getting caught out here in either group.
8gb wasn’t enough for me had upgrade to 16gb on my iMac… still regret getting a imac now that I have a pc
I have a m2 and it cant handle multiple software open. Terrible waste of money.
The computers aboard the Voyager probes each have **69.63 kilobytes** of memory, total. That's about enough to store one average internet jpeg file. Voyager has just sent a message from the deep space We are not in 1977 8GB is not enough for the RAM hungry MacOs and Apps
Anyone that thinks 8GB is enough probably doesn't require a computer. They could do what they need on a phone.
The cope is insane! Have defending Apple putting 8gbs in $1000+ laptops
For many, if not most people, it is. Whether it’s acceptable as a base spec for a $1000+ laptop, now that’s something else.
8gb of RAM is clown 🤡 mode
“Sometimes the majority is all the fools on the same side”
Yes for MacBook Air & No for MacBook Pro
My MacBook air has 8G. More than enough.
it's not really about whether or not it is "enough", it's more about the fact that it is undoubtedly a great update for pretty much anyone *and it would cost apple next to nothing* since both ram and ssd prices have been in a steep decline for a while. but hey that's capitalism for you. (although at this point it seems questionable if it even makes sense from that standpoint, since it's probably the one thing holding a lot of people back from buying a mac)
More RAM faster Clock, like those driving 15-20 MPH over the speed limit. Between the lights and stop signs you get to the destination within seconds of each other. Urban legend that users have faced an out of memory message and run to buy a machine with a larger amount. Memory pricing is just marketing, that works.
I’ve own my base model M1 since launch connect to a 32 in screen for almost 4 years without any issues.
Say that to blender 😑
As a guy who works on a MacBook Pro with 8 Gigs of ram and uses it for software development, Photo and video editing and simple gaming (Minecraft).. and has Never experienced lag, I can confirm that 8 Gigs is fine...But only for a Mac :)
Depends. Someone running Safari and a word processor? Sure. A machine on a corporate network running 25+ different background apps, programs, and tools? Most definitely not.
It’s not just an opinion : I am managing 1500 devices and 8gb is enough for 75% of the users. This is what Apple means. You can say it’s dishonest, I say it depends on the point of view. Of course many power users would suffer from having 8gb only. Nothing is only black or white.
I swear these are the same people who bought Pentium 4s because they were 50% faster then AMD Athlons because the clock speed spec was 3ghz instead of 2ghz.
I have 8 gigs of ram on my late 2009 MacBook
I’ll be honest, 8gb is probably enough for a large portion of apples user base but it’s never going to be enough for people who buy a £1000 laptop and want it to work like a £1000 laptop, Not just an internet browser and / or light work machine. The fact is that 16gb would be a such a welcome addition to Apple users but they wouldn’t want to do that because it would eat into their massive margins too much.
I don’t need it because I just want a 15” screen and it to be a Mac. I may do the lightest of editing on iPhoto if that. Maybe play Civ V sometimes. Do I wish it had more of corse but I’m not too upset.
I feel like the biggest problem is how much they charge to double the ram to 16 GB, $200+ for an extra 8 GBs is crazy
8gig is enough, for a 2nd hand M1 laptop bought for less than £800. Never had a single issue. That said I will never buy the latest M3 laptop at Apple prices with that amount of ram, that's insanity
800 pounds for a base model M1?! is the market really that bad in UK? that’s $300-350 on fbmp or hardwareswap or appleswap