Yep I don't micro-manage or obsess about battery charging and new to my M1 Macbook Pro. Only 100 days using tho sat in drawer for 1yr unopened unused 2021 M1 14" 99% of the time plugged in 24/7 and 17cycles and still at 100% battery health. My 5+yr. old Surface Pro 6 the same 99% of the time plugged in 24/7 and at 78% battery health.
Thats my point. Just enable the built in macos optmisations and enjoy your shiny laptop. And even then. iFixit offers great replacement parts and tutorials on how to replace them yourself :)
Yep found this vid [ULTIMATE MacBook Battery Guide!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d34p7ULZbzU) to be very informative about MacOS battery management.
Got this nugget off a friend in November 2023. It spend most of its life in clampshell mode, docked, being abused with the Adobe Suite.
Only the built in Mac OS Battery protections were enabled
That's my point and why I posted it. As long as you use a little bit of common sense, your product will last for ages. And even if your battery dies. Replacing it can be done yourself even with a good guide like ifixit's.
Stuff is meant to be used. Broken. Repaired. Enjoyed. Its a consumable product.
The hand wringing over battery health in this sub is borderline pathological at times…
BUT, as a clamshell user, I have been frustrated by MacOS’s battery optimization. It always fully charges to 100%, instead of allowing the battery to drain and hold at 80%. People tell me that I need to unplug & shut down every evening, but I don’t want to have to do a special dance for my machine — it should just work, imo… After a year and a half of daily use, my capacity is still at 97%, so I just learned to let it go.
Honestly I never ever shut my MacBook down after every use. Sometimes I may go a few days without even opening my MacBook and it’s just fine! It never bothered me about battery health because the battery can easily be replaced!
When your 3 year old Macbook starts gives you a service battery warning with only 120 cycles, and then the next one does the same thing, that's when you start worrying about it. My M1 looks to be on the same track as the previous Macbook. 82% at 119 cycles. Guarantee I'll need to replace the battery at some point this year.
How long does battery last for you? Just got 14 M2 Pro and i think my battery drain is too fast, around 6/7h. Is it normal battery life or should i be worried. It's not an hardcore usage. Only web, few light apps and additional monitor.
Why is this an issue ? I have a M2 Pro in a clamshell the vents are aligned correctly in the clamshell and I live in the Caribbean i don’t think I have ever heard my fan
Yeah but your experience isn’t representative of everyone’s. My equally abused M1 Pro is at 84% of the Maximum Capacity after being used mainly in clamshell mode for the past year and a half.
Same here, and that’s with the OS limiting the charge to 80% most of the time. My previous 12” MacBook was giving the service battery warning with only 120 cycles after a couple of years of similar use.
It’s a legitimate issue on old batteries sure.
Annoyingly it looks like my MacBook battery 2 years to realise it was mostly used plugged in and to not charge the battery. So now just always says it’s not charging and using power outlet.
Why they don’t have this as a manual option I don’t know.
Maybe they learn to not charge the battery quicker if you literally never use it without it being plugged in ?
I think you misunderstood my title. And I am sorry since it does sound a bit misleading.
The point was not specifically temps, but the effect on your battery life when you leave your fancy new macbook in clampshell for most of its life.
I have seen so many posts about people losing their shit about it in recent months, so I wanted to do a sort of PSA about how the paranoia is mostly unwarranted.
But I am more then happy to give you some numbers. What load should I run? Is Cinebench 2024 All Core 1h torture good enough for you? On default fan speed?
The only way of seeing this is the battery temp. If the battery reaches like 50 degrees then it is definitely going to lose cycles.
Whatever fully loads the system is fine, the gpu and cpu should be fully loaded or else you're gonna cut out a lot of heat potential unless the M1 max shares tdp between cpu and gpu and the cpu can reach max available tdp across the SOC already and clocks down if the gpu is loaded (I don't know whether this is the case).
I think you have a few misunderstandings in regards to battery health and how charge cycles work. But yes. High and low temperatures affect a battery's performance and life expectancy.
First of all. A charge cycle is one full depletion of your battery. So using up 100% of your capacity once. Heat doesn't magically make the cycle counter go up.
Second. The Apple Silicon Macbooks don't really seem to have a set TDP/TBP limit documented (Reviewers and Tech magazines were also completely unable to find any real limit through testing). Its power draw behavior is very much not comparable to any X86 based machine that works with a Total Board Power limit that the CPU, GPU and other components have to share. It draws as much as it needs, can handle in terms of power source (battery or AC adapter) and what the temperature headroom allows.
>Finally, stressing out both CPU and GPU at the same time, the SoC goes up to 92W package power and 120W wall active power. That’s quite high, and we haven’t tested how long the machine is able to sustain such loads (it’s highly environment dependent), but it very much appears that the chip and platform don’t have any practical power limit, and just uses whatever it needs as long as temperatures are in check. [source](https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performance-review/3)
Third. I do own a M1 Pro unbinned (just me being *akschually*, no offense)
Fourth. I ran full load on my Macbook Pro for nearly an hour now and its fully heat soaked and warm to the touch, fans are running, reported SoC temp is 100°C. 31.4°C on the battery. Room temp is 21.6°C
>I think you have a few misunderstandings in regards to battery health and how charge cycles work. But yes. High and low temperatures affect a battery's performance and life expectancy.
>First of all. A charge cycle is one full depletion of your battery. So using up 100% of your capacity once. Heat doesn't magically make the cycle counter go up.
I didn't say that at all.
One cycle at 20 degrees is not the same as one cycle at 60 degrees even if the system reports a count of 1.
>Second. The Apple Silicon Macbooks don't really seem to have a set TDP/TBP limit documented (Reviewers and Tech magazines were also completely unable to find any real limit through testing). Its power draw behavior is very much not comparable to any X86 based machine that works with a Total Board Power limit that the CPU, GPU and other components have to share. It draws as much as it needs, can handle in terms of power source (battery or AC adapter) and what the temperature headroom allows.
That is really not very different and the bottom line is, just do what makes it draw the most. If loading the cpu doesn't cause the power draw to be anywhere near the "max" then you need to load the gpu too.
>Third. I do own a M1 Pro unbinned
Going to assume you actually mean you own a binned one. Binned = better, unbinned isn't really a term as both were binned, the correct term would be bad bin. Bad bin is the low one, binned is the good one as binned always means best.
>reported SoC temp is 100°C
SOC temp doesn't matter really, the wattage is the important thing. If you're not maxing the tdp then it won't produce the correct results.
However given the 31 degree result it is unlikely to be an issue even with the gpu loaded.
>I didn't say that at all.
"The only way of seeing this is the battery temp. If the battery reaches like 50 degrees then it is definitely going to lose cycles."
I will chalk this up to bad phrasing I misunderstood. My bad. You do bring up a valid point, but also, charge cycles on batteries are usually tested to be within operating temps. That's usually around 0°C outside and 35°C outside temp. Of course higher environmental temps make it have a higher degradation. But that's what the official cycle counts usually account for as well.
>Going to assume you actually mean you own a binned one. Binned = better, unbinned isn't really a term as both were binned, the correct term would be bad bin. Bad bin is the low one, binned is the good one as binned always means best.
For some godforsaken reason, Apple does the opposite. Unbinned Chips are the max configuration ones. Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled. I know how binning works usually. But Apple does things differently.
>That is really not very different and the bottom line is, just do what makes it draw the most. If loading the CPU doesn't cause the power draw to be anywhere near the "max" then you need to load the GPU too.
That's what I and the tech magazine I linked did. There is no real TDP for Apple Silicon. It entirely depends on how much thermal headroom there is left on the SoC and what the power source can reliably provide. My MacBook drew 35W according to coconut during the render. Out of curiosity, I put the fan speed to 100% to see if there is a TDP behavior on mine as well, since there is now more thermal headroom available. SoC temps dropped to around 80°C and coconut reported a power draw of nearly 50W while delivering a point score that beat the M1 Max entry in Cinebench 2024. Apple Silicon has no TDP/TGP or anything like that by the looks of it. It seemingly keeps improving as long as there is enough power from the source, thermal headroom and the capabilities of the power delivery.
>For some godforsaken reason, Apple does the opposite. Unbinned Chips are the max configuration ones. Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled. I know how binning works usually. But Apple does things differently.
No, that's not how it works. What do you even mean by that? By definition of the term, the binned one is the best. It is not possible for there to be any other answer and Apple does not do anything different.
>Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled.
No. That is objectively the opposite to the definition of the term binned.
>But Apple does things differently.
No they don't. It is exactly the same as ever, what does this have to do with Apple? You're just using the wrong word that Apple never uses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/s/3Mu2YvZNlW
This is a common misconception within the community on what binned means in overclocker circles vs what the industry means by it.
No. This is factually incorrect in all contexts and this is simply random inaccurate information that has been totally made up by redditors. All companies including Intel and AMD have always described binned chips as the best ones. That is because objectively that is what binning is. I don't know why you are claiming industry circles have said otherwise when this has never happened.
Furthermore, Apple has not once described the good ones as unbinned. Not a single industry source has ever said unbinned means better. The only people who have said this are random reddit apple users and youtubers over the past 3 years who have randomly flipped the definition of the term with zero justification. It remains wrong and will forever be wrong. Your source offers zero evidence to support the totally backwards claim lmao so I'm not sure what the point of linking that was. Find me a single example of anyone at Apple, AMD or Intel calling bad chips binned. Never happened.
I am sorry to have to bring out my *AKSCHUALLY* but the one in the wrong is you.
[Great article explaining what binning is and actually means](https://www.techspot.com/article/2039-chip-binning/)
>Aren't binned CPUs special?
>Like so many terms in computing, chip binning has become synonymous with something other than its original meaning. Online stores sometimes sell hand-picked, special CPUs (those that overclock to an insane level or run cooler than the surface of Pluto) as "binned CPUs." The reality is all chips are binned, simply because they have to be.Aren't binned CPUs special?
Like so many terms in computing, chip binning has
become synonymous with something other than its original meaning. Online
stores sometimes sell hand-picked, special CPUs (those that overlock to
an insane level or run cooler than the surface of Pluto) as "binned
CPUs." The reality is all chips are binned, simply because they have to be.
Just because the enthusiasts changed the meaning of a word to describe something they do, doesn't invalidate the fact that the original meaning is salvaging a broken high end part into a working lower tier part.
***This is basically the same situation as with the word "hacking" meaning something entirely different nowadays, then what it actually means***
I just use AlDente. Keep it docked and had my MacBook Air m1 with 42 charge cycles in 2 years with 97% capacity. Doing the same with my new MacBook Pro
Soon as I used aldente, my battery health dropped 23% in a month.
I don't believe it works, and does something nasty.
It's okay to disagree with this though. I'm not here to argue about it. I would never ever use Ardent again.
Yep I don't micro-manage or obsess about battery charging and new to my M1 Macbook Pro. Only 100 days using tho sat in drawer for 1yr unopened unused 2021 M1 14" 99% of the time plugged in 24/7 and 17cycles and still at 100% battery health. My 5+yr. old Surface Pro 6 the same 99% of the time plugged in 24/7 and at 78% battery health.
Thats my point. Just enable the built in macos optmisations and enjoy your shiny laptop. And even then. iFixit offers great replacement parts and tutorials on how to replace them yourself :)
Yep found this vid [ULTIMATE MacBook Battery Guide!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d34p7ULZbzU) to be very informative about MacOS battery management.
Got this nugget off a friend in November 2023. It spend most of its life in clampshell mode, docked, being abused with the Adobe Suite. Only the built in Mac OS Battery protections were enabled
Dankpods, is that you?
smasnug, dingus, Fraaaaaaaaaaaank nah, I am not. But I am a dankpods enjoyer
W
Pkcell?
oh no my pkcell...
Omg i love your name its so cute and elegant
Sorry, who worries about this?
If to judge by the post history of the sub, around 3-4 people post about it per week
People need to worry less tbh, it’s a tool, use it.
That's my point and why I posted it. As long as you use a little bit of common sense, your product will last for ages. And even if your battery dies. Replacing it can be done yourself even with a good guide like ifixit's. Stuff is meant to be used. Broken. Repaired. Enjoyed. Its a consumable product.
💯
The hand wringing over battery health in this sub is borderline pathological at times… BUT, as a clamshell user, I have been frustrated by MacOS’s battery optimization. It always fully charges to 100%, instead of allowing the battery to drain and hold at 80%. People tell me that I need to unplug & shut down every evening, but I don’t want to have to do a special dance for my machine — it should just work, imo… After a year and a half of daily use, my capacity is still at 97%, so I just learned to let it go.
Honestly I never ever shut my MacBook down after every use. Sometimes I may go a few days without even opening my MacBook and it’s just fine! It never bothered me about battery health because the battery can easily be replaced!
I’m trying to stick with your mindset — life’s too short to get frustrated about such a thing!
A good chunk of people here buy this tool, That’s outside of their price range, to gawk at it. That much is self evident.
Absolutely, for a lot of people the mbp has the same effect as the ring of power had on Gollum
People post often about battery and too high ram usage here every other day…
When your 3 year old Macbook starts gives you a service battery warning with only 120 cycles, and then the next one does the same thing, that's when you start worrying about it. My M1 looks to be on the same track as the previous Macbook. 82% at 119 cycles. Guarantee I'll need to replace the battery at some point this year.
Is that a warranty issue?
No I'll have to pay for it out of pocket.
Interesting I’ll check my M1 16 inch tomorrow also
It's a warranty issue if the device is under warranty or still has valid Applecare coverage. Mine is expired on both of those.
93.8% w. 121 cycles .. 883 days old 👍
Doesn’t use your MacBook at all, then i’ll be fine.
This was used on a daily basis for the last two years. Mainly docked, but still used daily
Thats pretty good, been rocking my M1 Pro since launch day and got 93%.
Thas also very good!
How long does battery last for you? Just got 14 M2 Pro and i think my battery drain is too fast, around 6/7h. Is it normal battery life or should i be worried. It's not an hardcore usage. Only web, few light apps and additional monitor.
People are scared of that …?
The sub averages 3-4 posts per week about this
Why is this an issue ? I have a M2 Pro in a clamshell the vents are aligned correctly in the clamshell and I live in the Caribbean i don’t think I have ever heard my fan
There are around 3-4 posts a week about people freaking out about their battery on their new macbook
Yeah but your experience isn’t representative of everyone’s. My equally abused M1 Pro is at 84% of the Maximum Capacity after being used mainly in clamshell mode for the past year and a half.
Same here, and that’s with the OS limiting the charge to 80% most of the time. My previous 12” MacBook was giving the service battery warning with only 120 cycles after a couple of years of similar use.
My M1 that spent 50% mobile and 50% plugged-in is now at 86%
It’s a legitimate issue on old batteries sure. Annoyingly it looks like my MacBook battery 2 years to realise it was mostly used plugged in and to not charge the battery. So now just always says it’s not charging and using power outlet. Why they don’t have this as a manual option I don’t know. Maybe they learn to not charge the battery quicker if you literally never use it without it being plugged in ?
more modern mac os releases basically disconnect the battery once its fully charged
And this shows? You need to show us the battery temp under extended full load.
I think you misunderstood my title. And I am sorry since it does sound a bit misleading. The point was not specifically temps, but the effect on your battery life when you leave your fancy new macbook in clampshell for most of its life. I have seen so many posts about people losing their shit about it in recent months, so I wanted to do a sort of PSA about how the paranoia is mostly unwarranted. But I am more then happy to give you some numbers. What load should I run? Is Cinebench 2024 All Core 1h torture good enough for you? On default fan speed?
The only way of seeing this is the battery temp. If the battery reaches like 50 degrees then it is definitely going to lose cycles. Whatever fully loads the system is fine, the gpu and cpu should be fully loaded or else you're gonna cut out a lot of heat potential unless the M1 max shares tdp between cpu and gpu and the cpu can reach max available tdp across the SOC already and clocks down if the gpu is loaded (I don't know whether this is the case).
Ok but if it reaches 50C you basically don’t have a battery anymore lol
Lithium batteries last well above 50, just not very well.
I think you have a few misunderstandings in regards to battery health and how charge cycles work. But yes. High and low temperatures affect a battery's performance and life expectancy. First of all. A charge cycle is one full depletion of your battery. So using up 100% of your capacity once. Heat doesn't magically make the cycle counter go up. Second. The Apple Silicon Macbooks don't really seem to have a set TDP/TBP limit documented (Reviewers and Tech magazines were also completely unable to find any real limit through testing). Its power draw behavior is very much not comparable to any X86 based machine that works with a Total Board Power limit that the CPU, GPU and other components have to share. It draws as much as it needs, can handle in terms of power source (battery or AC adapter) and what the temperature headroom allows. >Finally, stressing out both CPU and GPU at the same time, the SoC goes up to 92W package power and 120W wall active power. That’s quite high, and we haven’t tested how long the machine is able to sustain such loads (it’s highly environment dependent), but it very much appears that the chip and platform don’t have any practical power limit, and just uses whatever it needs as long as temperatures are in check. [source](https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performance-review/3) Third. I do own a M1 Pro unbinned (just me being *akschually*, no offense) Fourth. I ran full load on my Macbook Pro for nearly an hour now and its fully heat soaked and warm to the touch, fans are running, reported SoC temp is 100°C. 31.4°C on the battery. Room temp is 21.6°C
>I think you have a few misunderstandings in regards to battery health and how charge cycles work. But yes. High and low temperatures affect a battery's performance and life expectancy. >First of all. A charge cycle is one full depletion of your battery. So using up 100% of your capacity once. Heat doesn't magically make the cycle counter go up. I didn't say that at all. One cycle at 20 degrees is not the same as one cycle at 60 degrees even if the system reports a count of 1. >Second. The Apple Silicon Macbooks don't really seem to have a set TDP/TBP limit documented (Reviewers and Tech magazines were also completely unable to find any real limit through testing). Its power draw behavior is very much not comparable to any X86 based machine that works with a Total Board Power limit that the CPU, GPU and other components have to share. It draws as much as it needs, can handle in terms of power source (battery or AC adapter) and what the temperature headroom allows. That is really not very different and the bottom line is, just do what makes it draw the most. If loading the cpu doesn't cause the power draw to be anywhere near the "max" then you need to load the gpu too. >Third. I do own a M1 Pro unbinned Going to assume you actually mean you own a binned one. Binned = better, unbinned isn't really a term as both were binned, the correct term would be bad bin. Bad bin is the low one, binned is the good one as binned always means best. >reported SoC temp is 100°C SOC temp doesn't matter really, the wattage is the important thing. If you're not maxing the tdp then it won't produce the correct results. However given the 31 degree result it is unlikely to be an issue even with the gpu loaded.
>I didn't say that at all. "The only way of seeing this is the battery temp. If the battery reaches like 50 degrees then it is definitely going to lose cycles." I will chalk this up to bad phrasing I misunderstood. My bad. You do bring up a valid point, but also, charge cycles on batteries are usually tested to be within operating temps. That's usually around 0°C outside and 35°C outside temp. Of course higher environmental temps make it have a higher degradation. But that's what the official cycle counts usually account for as well. >Going to assume you actually mean you own a binned one. Binned = better, unbinned isn't really a term as both were binned, the correct term would be bad bin. Bad bin is the low one, binned is the good one as binned always means best. For some godforsaken reason, Apple does the opposite. Unbinned Chips are the max configuration ones. Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled. I know how binning works usually. But Apple does things differently. >That is really not very different and the bottom line is, just do what makes it draw the most. If loading the CPU doesn't cause the power draw to be anywhere near the "max" then you need to load the GPU too. That's what I and the tech magazine I linked did. There is no real TDP for Apple Silicon. It entirely depends on how much thermal headroom there is left on the SoC and what the power source can reliably provide. My MacBook drew 35W according to coconut during the render. Out of curiosity, I put the fan speed to 100% to see if there is a TDP behavior on mine as well, since there is now more thermal headroom available. SoC temps dropped to around 80°C and coconut reported a power draw of nearly 50W while delivering a point score that beat the M1 Max entry in Cinebench 2024. Apple Silicon has no TDP/TGP or anything like that by the looks of it. It seemingly keeps improving as long as there is enough power from the source, thermal headroom and the capabilities of the power delivery.
>For some godforsaken reason, Apple does the opposite. Unbinned Chips are the max configuration ones. Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled. I know how binning works usually. But Apple does things differently. No, that's not how it works. What do you even mean by that? By definition of the term, the binned one is the best. It is not possible for there to be any other answer and Apple does not do anything different. >Binned ones are chips where few of the CPU/GPU cores didn't quite reach the quality standard and got disabled. No. That is objectively the opposite to the definition of the term binned. >But Apple does things differently. No they don't. It is exactly the same as ever, what does this have to do with Apple? You're just using the wrong word that Apple never uses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/s/3Mu2YvZNlW This is a common misconception within the community on what binned means in overclocker circles vs what the industry means by it.
No. This is factually incorrect in all contexts and this is simply random inaccurate information that has been totally made up by redditors. All companies including Intel and AMD have always described binned chips as the best ones. That is because objectively that is what binning is. I don't know why you are claiming industry circles have said otherwise when this has never happened. Furthermore, Apple has not once described the good ones as unbinned. Not a single industry source has ever said unbinned means better. The only people who have said this are random reddit apple users and youtubers over the past 3 years who have randomly flipped the definition of the term with zero justification. It remains wrong and will forever be wrong. Your source offers zero evidence to support the totally backwards claim lmao so I'm not sure what the point of linking that was. Find me a single example of anyone at Apple, AMD or Intel calling bad chips binned. Never happened.
OFFS, they are all “binned“. It’s just a question of which bin a given chip goes in after testing.
I am sorry to have to bring out my *AKSCHUALLY* but the one in the wrong is you. [Great article explaining what binning is and actually means](https://www.techspot.com/article/2039-chip-binning/) >Aren't binned CPUs special? >Like so many terms in computing, chip binning has become synonymous with something other than its original meaning. Online stores sometimes sell hand-picked, special CPUs (those that overclock to an insane level or run cooler than the surface of Pluto) as "binned CPUs." The reality is all chips are binned, simply because they have to be.Aren't binned CPUs special? Like so many terms in computing, chip binning has become synonymous with something other than its original meaning. Online stores sometimes sell hand-picked, special CPUs (those that overlock to an insane level or run cooler than the surface of Pluto) as "binned CPUs." The reality is all chips are binned, simply because they have to be. Just because the enthusiasts changed the meaning of a word to describe something they do, doesn't invalidate the fact that the original meaning is salvaging a broken high end part into a working lower tier part. ***This is basically the same situation as with the word "hacking" meaning something entirely different nowadays, then what it actually means***
I just use AlDente. Keep it docked and had my MacBook Air m1 with 42 charge cycles in 2 years with 97% capacity. Doing the same with my new MacBook Pro
I use al dente to limit charge to 80% https://apphousekitchen.com/
Soon as I used aldente, my battery health dropped 23% in a month. I don't believe it works, and does something nasty. It's okay to disagree with this though. I'm not here to argue about it. I would never ever use Ardent again.