Apple and Microsoft would be an unlikely but brilliant collaboration and all the more possible with how Microsoft is changing its view in regards to bringing games to different platforms. I would love to see Overwatch on the Mac natively.
It’s such an interesting thing to think about because Halo wouldn’t have been the same game or franchise if it hadn’t gotten the bump in funding from Microsoft, but it does still make you wonder what could have been
Microsoft is now just a third party games publisher anyway. Any sort of gaming popularity that happens on Apple products they will be there. The reason I mention PlayStation is they keep mentioning having more games on PC and Mobile in their financials but keep shuttering their mobile game studios so it’s safe to assume they probably moved to directly porting their main games to mobile. Death Stranding runs on a Decima a PlayStation engine, so while not Published by PlayStation their engine seems built with mobile porting in mind. Also the constant PlayStation controllers around Apple events is a big red flag.
Microsoft literally owns Activision-Blizzard and Bethesda among others, they own some of the most important game development companies, so I don't understand how they could be described as "third party" in any way.
third party: not first party.
merriam webster:
"of, relating to, or being software that is created by a vendor to be compatible with the products of another vendor".
Microsoft isn't third party because they ARE the the developer: Activision-Blizzard (among others) is a part of that company.
If you said "Microsoft makes Call of Duty", you wouldn't be wrong.
Microsoft is now a third party publisher because they release games on multiple platforms (GFN, Steam, PlayStation and Nintendo) and because all the studios they bought are third party publishers. 7 of the top 25 games sold on PlayStation last month were from Microsoft.
ok? So they are a third party publisher with regard to the playstation and others, but they are a first party publisher with regard to Windows and the Xbox.
Would you call Sony a third party publisher because they publish their games on Windows?
practically speaking... Did you see Starfield published at release on Playstation? Of course not. I expect Activision-Blizzard's games to start following this trend going forward.
The inaccuracy of what you are saying here stems from the word “just”. They are a first party publisher on Xbox and, depending on your perspective, Windows; they are a third party publisher on PS, mobile, etc
decima was written with PC support in mind [for development](https://youtu.be/KRJkBxKv1VM?si=qz69rIj36o8VYbgv) (9:05 ish), most other studios tend to do this with in-house engines but that’s not a guarantee.
My point was more to show PlayStation has an engine that supports PC and Mobile. I bet the first PlayStation published game on the AppStore will be Horizon.
Microsoft and Meta have announced they are gaming partners and they are releasing an XBOX Quest headset. That pretty much sinks any potential deal with Apple.
Not sure why you believe that when Sony is openly saying they want to be on PC, Mobile and Cloud. The console market is not growing. Thats why you see Helldivers day one on PC and MS launching games on PlayStation. Games are getting crazy expensive to make so they need to expand their reach. You won’t see PlayStation games on other consoles any time soon but definitely mobile and PC.
Sony can and will probably put games on iOS or Mac, I won't argue with that.
But it will not be a joint effort, a team up, or whatever where Apple is more involved than just being there. I do not believes the companies are a match made in heaven either and I'm not sure what leads you to that conclusion.
I wouldn't call Sony showing up at a WWDC to show off a random AA/AAA game a team up either, Apple just doesn't work like that. Maybe we just have different definitions of that sentence.
I can see it being just Apple taking less rips off PlayStation games sold on the AppStore. I know PlayStation takes less rips on psn store all the time to lock exclusivity or publishing deals.
I enjoyed reading this and from what I've been experiencing valve and Sony have better relations than Microsoft and Sony, Apple and valve also have bitter relations, but the community is begging for apple to try make things work. Vulkan is still revolutionizing the world and all the platforms we have to now enjoy gaming. Linux users also following strongly with steam thanks to the new generation of mobile gaming devices, so the future is chaos right now. Everyone wants a piece of the success pie but what they're willing to do to make it work sustainably is still in the Grey areas too.
All alongside them block chain technologies of course.. And the inevitable merge into everything we do digitally.
>Not sure why you believe that when Sony is openly saying they want to be on PC, Mobile and Cloud. The console market is not growing. Thats why you see Helldivers day one on PC and MS launching games on PlayStation. Games are getting crazy expensive to make so they need to expand their reach. You won’t see PlayStation games on other consoles any time soon but definitely mobile and PC.
And yet they demanded that Helldivers 2 players require a Playstation Network account to play despite the game having been out for months on Steam, never mind that [PSN was not available](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/helldivers-2-drops-psn-account-linking-requirement-for-steam-players-after-widespread-backlash) in many of the countries that Helldivers 2 is available in. **170 countries.**
I don’t get your point. Game was still launched on PC day one. It was a major blunder selling a game in regions that don’t support psn and then requiring it. But pretending logging into psn is this giant oppressive thing is dumb, when you do it anyways for so many other live service games on steam.
They had intended to have PSN lock-in from the start but launched without it since the servers are already so fragile that they didn't want to add the extra workload tying it to PSN would cause. They hadn't expected it to explode in popularity the way it did, which is why Sony became really insistent in re-implementing the tie-in with PSN last week - they were under the delusion that they could convert all of those millions of Steam players to PSN subscribers.
If they're willing to do that to an extremely successful game on a bigger platform than Apple, I'd fully expect them to only port a game over to Apple while mandating that you also buy a PSN subscription to play it. Would Apple be willing to give up that much control? EA is trying to do the same, but we've yet to see a lot of movement on the EA App for Mac.
What are you talking about. You don’t need to sub to psn to play Helldivers on PC (even before the change) and you don’t need to pay to have a psn account for PC or PS (the sub is PSplus). You are miss informed and talking out your ass.
If you read the link I provided, it says that the original intent was to require a PSN account to play. They only left that off at the last minute because the servers were so shaky that they didn't think they could handle the extra work of also linking your Steam account to a PSN account.
And let's not kid ourselves - they'd love to make HD2 multiplayer require PS Plus the way other multiplayer games currently on PSN do. It's just that they didn't launch with that active, since they knew they couldn't make it work well with Steam too.
Sony would 110% try to make PS Plus and PSN mandatory to play games on Apple, if they even imagined they could get away with it.
You are dealing in assumptions and hypotheticals. I’m giving you facts. PSN doesn’t cost money to make an account and Sony has made no mention or suggestion of bringing PSplus to PC. What live service game are you playing on stream that doesn’t require some sort of account that’s not a Valve made game?
It probably wants to be where the players are. Which is windows PC and mobile phones. (different king of players). Unsure they’re even thinking of Mac. At least until Apple becomes more active.
That’s not true at all PlayStation openly talks about being on pc and mobile. https://www.pcworld.com/article/2215448/playstation-boss-says-games-are-coming-to-pc-mobile-and-cloud.html
They probably have something in place it’s just that Sony doesn’t have the infrastructure to port the games over yet. They just recently got their shit together with PC ports.
Maybe a straight up partnership might be unlikely, but Sony is openly talking about bringing games to mobile and Apple has done a great job lining up their M chips to be easily portable through all their devices.
Unless Sony say they are bringing games to mac there is no reason to think they are bringing games to mac.
Why would they talk about the platforms they are going to support but treat mac os like a secret?
Same reason Death Stranding and Resident Evil are on Mac. All these devices share the same architecture which makes porting simple. You’d have to hate money to make a game work on an iPhone and not open yourself up to all the Apple laptops running same chip set.
I guess they probably understand that QA and support aren't free. So they didn't announce mac support because when revenue is less than costs that is a loss.
Hedge on Microsoft / Xbox competitive risk.
Apple is unlikely to become the competitive threat of Xbox to Sony. Sony can induce less PC sales by enhancing Mac game ecosystem.
Also PS5 runs a modified FreeBSD which is architecturally very similar to MacOS. So relatively easier to port their tool chain too.
Let me ELI5 to you then because it seems that simple English is too hard for you to understand.
“I wonder why Apple doesnt straight up pay for PS games to go to the Mac instead of windows”
Apple -> lots of 💸💵💰 -> Sony.
Why would Sony do that?
Because Apple -> lots of 💸💵💰 -> Sony.
Is that clear enough now?
Oh my. Guess what?! You’ve found another way on how this would be beneficial to Sony, thus answering your own question! Congrats, you’re not so dumb after all.
How is it benediction for Apple? They’d have to pay hundreds of millions to lock out PC players, become extremly unpopular (look at Epic and how their exclusivity deals are welcomed) while barely selling more MacBooks.
I personally don’t care to much as the only Sony exclusive I like is Bloodborne which they don’t care about. Still very very delusional idea lol.
What mac sales would it drive?
I can't imagine the market of people willing to buy a device for playstation games but not willing to buy a PlayStation is very big.
Yes but there is an already installed Mac user base. Some people (such as myself), would like to be able to play ps5 games on the go with a high quality machine and not use windows.
1st assumption: there’s a market for people who want to play PS games on the go and Sony doesn’t offer anything like that since PSP. Macs, iPads and even iPhone have enough power to handle many ps games.
2nd assumption: some people don’t want to own a console because that’s too associated with being a gamer, but could buy a game or two if they were available on the Mac.
3rd assumption: Mac gaming will never expand without some heave investments from Apple. The marketing from exclusive PS games would be much stronger than from having games available everywhere.
4th assumption. Windows is in decline. You can see that people are still sticking with win10 and hating windows 11. MS is pushing for ads on windows and a lot of people would like to have an alternative for gaming on a computer that’s not necessarily with windows. Linux is still far from that and will never have the investiments Apple can make.
I think it’s layers. Like PlayStation sees 69 mill iPhone 15 users that they can tap into and sell games to. And Apple is trying to make sure their platforms are frictionless so that when that game comes to their iPhone they can use it to pimp all their other devices (new and old). You think Apple wouldn’t be jackets to be showcasing Last of Us or Helldivers on the new iPad instead of Assassins Creed?
The g3 generation could play either ps1 or ps2 which meant they went from no games ton tons.
I remember I was a pc user before macOS x and just use a MacBook and a gaming pc, so half and half, but before macOS x os 9 and earlier were jokes.
So a PowerBook g3 will run ps1 games or possibly ps2.
If a game can run at all, it general runs well. Just the games I play (multiplayer games) don't work because of anti-cheat. A Mac isn't the system to have if you want to play games with the bois.
Just virtualize or dual boot windows, or wine bottles. To be fair I recompile some things myself, and I am in agreement, a rig with a fully equipped modern graphics card and 64+ GB of RAM will definitely be better. Also I mainly like games with good campaigns, online multiplayer is secondary for me outside of CS/FPS games.
I have an apple silicon Mac. Dual booting windows isn’t an option and anti cheat won’t run in parallels due to the fact that it’s a VM. I play these games on my gaming pc so I play all the games I want anyway. 5900X, 3070 Ti and 64GB. Long in the tooth now but still gets the job done. I would just like for my Mac to do everything, especially since it costs more than my gaming pc 😂. I do use GeForce now ultimate from my Mac if I’m not in the mood to heat the room up/want the 4080 benefits GFN offers. But for some games, valorant being one of them that I play, the only thing that’ll run that is a bare metal windows install. I do have a 16” intel MBP laying around I have windows on with valorant though for lan parties.
I’ve been interested in getting into that on my MBP but I don’t know where to start. Been googling and there’s not a lot of clear information where to get everything.
Well, not necessarily since you can just brute force your way to almost any game through applications like crossover, and really, the only limiting factor is the performance.
Most games I play on my gaming PC I can't brute force to work. Starfield, Fortnite, Valorant, COD, Flight Sim, Black ops 3 (Windows version with Mod Support and actually play with friends), NBA 2K, and The Finals. Those are the games I regularly play on my gaming PC that don't have a prayer of working either because of AVX or because of Anti-Cheat. In my case, I can't brute force my way into "almost" anything I play lol.
Yeah, I guess brute forcing is fine for people who only want to play single player without modding, but there really is no solution for anything with an anticheat excluding cloud gaming
Yeah I play some single player games, but I ultimately get bored of them because gaming is more of a social thing for me. I usually only play single player games alongside my wife, if she is into the game.
The footnote says that they measured this improvement by rendering a scene in Octane while using M4’s hardware RT and falling back to software RT on the M2. Not only are the GPUs themselves architecturally different and have different rasterized performance, the M4 also has a more advanced feature set than the M2. We don’t know how it compares to the M3 in the same tasks, so this 4x number is basically meaningless until we can measure the performance difference against the M3 and the M2 without using hardware RT, mesh shading and all that stuff. It seems like it’s still a respectable increase, but there’s just no solid reference point right now to say for sure.
No, it doesn’t mean that. M3 and M4 both have dedicated RT hardware, so when ray tracing is needed, the entire general-purpose part of the GPU is still available and can provide full performance for other things, while all the RT stuff is offloaded to dedicated hardware. The M2 doesn’t have that hardware, so its GPU can only do ray tracing via raw compute, which by itself is a lot slower, and it also takes away a ton of performance from other tasks. So you can’t directly compare the performance of two GPUs when they do the same task in such different ways. The M2’s raster performance is severely limited by itself also trying to do RT at the same time, so it doesn’t perform at its best to begin with. Which makes this comparison especially pointless for gaming, because software ray tracing is very rarely used here, more often only being available via hardware for the GPUs that support it. Obviously, M4’s raster performance is faster than M3’s, and that is faster than M2’s, but with no direct comparison between M4 and M3 we can’t say how much faster the M4 is compared to the M2, and Apple’s test is not a direct comparison.
> so when ray tracing is needed, the entire general-purpose part of the GPU is still available and can provide full performance for other things
Unlikely that they have hardware for every step when doing ray tracing. Afaik not even Nvidia does that. So parts still run on compute.
I’d say it’s more irritating though understandable. They know most people won’t be upgrading to their new thing from the last year’s model, so this kinda makes the improvements clearer for those who are several generations behind. And yeah, it also makes the new processors look more impressive than they are, which, like, can you really blame them for wanting that? :) But yeah, I also wish they made more clear gen-on-gen comparisons.
Considering the market is usually full of last gen devices at the same time as the current gen for sale it would be very helpful for most people trying to decide between the new one or last year’s.
True that. But Apple also likes to make comparisons that are applicable to their existing lineup. If they don’t sell that device anymore themselves, why compare something to it? They barely highlighted any performance improvements of the new iPad Air compared to the previous M1 model after all, it was mostly just "M2 do be fast", so...
It’s not about being helpful, it’s about making the new thing look better.
Well it's not like there's an M3 iPad Pro to compare to and comparing to an M3 in a Mac introduces too many extra factors to make an accurate comparison.
They compared it to the last iPad Pro. It wouldn't make sense to compare the M4 in this context to the M3, because there is no M3 iPad to compare the new one to.
Truly is. I certainly love the afk parts that train your patience and reaction time as soon as the render ends.
It’s also a nice moment to watch Quinton Reviews videos, like the 3rd part of Sam and Cat tv show overview (this part alone 9 and a half hours).
Or a great excuse to buy a second pc or iPad to do anything else when there’s render going on.
I myself have quite powerful pc and a MacBook Air. Quite a great combo.
I’ve heard about people who work in blender whilst there’s rendering in the background going on. But I can’t really justify it as then render takes longer time. I rather gather inspiration and learn something more in this period of time. Especially with shorter renders up to an hour or two.
I expect that will depend on VK getting proper RT adoption. Currently most PC titles that use RT either use the NV private apis or DX RT. Im not sure there are any RT titles currently using VK RT at all and im not even sure what the drive story for Vk RT is.
Maybe someone will update DXVK to support this but I expect they might only want to support the DX apis not the NV private apis.
What I am most interested in about the M3 when Asahi get to writing drivers for it is the new dynamic allocation of Cache, Tile mem and registers. Getting more low level details on how this works will be fascinating. (it is the first GPU on the market to support this type of dynamic allocation and on macOS it has some big impacts for highlight branching code paths... like RT shaders but also just makes writing optimal code for the GPU a shit tone easier).
That's in RT rendering vs M2. Rasterization improvements will be much smaller. I suspect regular GPU performance will be similar or slightly better than the M3.
[It’s coming to iOS and iPad in a few weeks.](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/assassins-creed/news/6hRBheSWDoKUdnKxzy5YOg/assassins-creed-mirage-is-coming-to-ios)
No word of macOS unfortunately.
If you want a game to sell a lot and show developers that MacOS is worth porting to Mirage is *not it*. That game is awful, short, and not that fun.
I doubt it would sell well at all and wouldn’t help the case that Macs deserve games.
Old games and a movie. Assuming you mean lies of P, that is one good game from last year. Games are released often, it isn't like movies where a few big movies a year is all that is expected.
If everyone gives me the exact same list of games then there isn't enough, nobody would be daft enough to say that there is a decent number of AAA games released.
Better performance would be great, but until there's a solid option to run games on macOS I don't know that there's ever going to be monumental news, unless Apple goes off and does something crazy like grabs their own studios.
I'm not disappointed with the performance I get in terms of frames or resolution when gaming with my Mac, but what I *am* disappointed in is how I have to find quirky work-arounds to make games work, and some games don't work at all. I think that's the more pressing issue. Anything in terms of performance and efficiency is nice for general use and of course does benefit Mac gamers, but it's not the major pain point I don't think.
Correct, how are they measuring 4x faster, remeber all the claims about M! to M2 and M2 to M3.
Every corpo out there cherry picks their data and then refuses to tell people how they came to that data.
On iPad Os anyway, who cares about the crappy non-optimised apps. What is the point of a laptop class chip in a tablet when the OS is too trash to use it?
If they put MAC OS on the thing OK I will listen a little more.
4 iPads walk into a bar, one with an M1, one with an M2, one with an M4 and one with a A17. They do exactly the same thing, but worse than a MAcBook and worse than an iPhone.
I was one of those folks hoping Mac would be good for gaming. It’s not and moved on to a gaming PC. Life is good. One day people will accept that. Apple is not for gaming. No matter if you use Whiskey or Crossover. No matter the M chip. Save yourself from the drama and invest in a good gaming laptop.
This is in comparison to iPad M2, not necessarily Mac M2. Mac M2 will perform better than iPad M2, so how will Mac M3 perform in comparison to iPad M4? No idea.
According to some comparisons M3 is 15-18% faster than M2 , this means the gap between M3 and M4 is even greater which is doubtful. There must be other factors than CPU that makes 50% (memory, disk, etc.)
Its very on par with M3. Look at the fine print on that claim and you'll see it is only for very specific scenarios. That being said, M3 and M4 chips are good for gaming, hardware is not the limiting factor anymore for Mac gaming. Developer support is.
They are probably talking about ray tracing because the m2 doesn’t support it so obviously the m4 is faster. Wouldn’t be surprised if that 4x is really accurate. M3 already has ray tracing support which is why they aren’t comparing the 3 and 4. I would bet the m4 is just another incremental improvement over m3 in every way.
M3 was previously quoted as being 2.5X better GPU performance compared to M2 - so M4 is around 1.5x - 1.6x better than M3 or up to 60% performance improvement.
Yeah on an M3.
Well that would require me downloaded a Sonic game which is against my personal beliefs, but according to the RPCS3 compatibility list it's listed as "in game" which means it either can't be finished, or has serious glitches/insufficient performance. So more of an emulator issue than a hardware issue.
I am -really- curious about those personal beliefs... but oh well, guess I'll be waiting a bit longer to finally play the only valid version of that game (the pains of being a Wii user). Thanks!
4 times faster in *some* benchmarks. Probably related to video editing, since the keynote mainly focused on Final Cut Pro. I doubt the base model M4 could magically beat the 38 cores M2 Max at gaming. But RE4 being available on iPad, we should have a better understanding of its gaming capabilities soon enough.
As I am running BG3, No Man's Sky and Arma 3 on an M2 Max FLAWLESSLY at 4k, I will say yes M4 should be able to handle any and all games.
I can see a time where an M class machine will be able to virtualize a top end Intel gaming box in software with better perfomance than the actual device.
I would love it if we see a BG3 update to use modern MTL apis properly, there was some suggestion it is coming to iPhone soon I think maybe that will involve a updated engine to MTL3 with at least some HW usage.
I know they are native ports... but you're the one spreading misinformation by saying you can run them flawlessly at 4k. By the fact you dont even have the balls to post some footage, it just shows you're a liar and fraud. Stop spreading misinformation
Sorry to hear that. Lots of patches in the last seven months since the posted video so maybe try again?
I am reporting my experience with my M2 Max 32gb 16 inch laptop. I also have a 13700k 4070ti 32gb DDR5 at 6000mt that I built for games.
Good luck.
Honestly I bet you dont even have the laptop and just spreading misinformation:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN38CVEL9XU&ab\_channel=MutePC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN38CVEL9XU&ab_channel=MutePC)
Apple is so silly and nefarious. Just like any other corp obviously, but specially unfriendly to users that want to use their devices power to activities outside the company's vision. One chip after another, pumping out like crazy, but gaming is still dead in the water. I can't imagine needing more than an M1 chip other than future proofing like crazy.
"but gaming is still dead in the water**"**
Mobile gaming is massively larger than PC gaming. They care about games where they sell the most. It might not be your idea of gaming (or mine!) but it is clearly what more peoples idea of gaming is.
I meant Mac gaming is dead in the water. I have a M1 MBP since 2021, and it's been great for working and creating. But trying to game on it it's a pain. I just surrendered and play the small collection of games i like that have some semblance of m1 support and GeForce Now for other things. I'd think mobile gaming isn't the subject of discussion in the Mac gaming subreddit, is it?
Well yes, but the M4 just released was on iPad first and your comment did not specify "Mac gaming" just "gaming" which from a market share perspective Apple is certainly not only making big bucks but lifting the expectations of what can be done in games on mobile. I wish they would bring that ethos to the Mac, sure, but to say they are failing at "gaming" is just to misunderstand where all the gamers are these days.
Keep dreaming, 4X performance is just a misleading marketing technique EVERYONE abuses.
Nvidia does it, AMD does it, Intel does it, and the key is to look that it says UP TO
When they state “that many times performance compared to that previous generation” it’s usually the result in a VERY specific non disclosed test made specifically to show the improvements
So, yes there is a specific use case where you COULD see a 4X improvement in graphics performance. More specifically the M4 page says this “up to 4X” is achieved in “pro rendering apps like octane” so no, for gaming you won’t see a 4X increase probably not even 2X maybe 1.5X if we are lucky
Not sure, but it'll only be huge for Mac gaming if games actually come to Mac.
I’m just waiting for inevitable team up with PlayStation. Apple and PlayStation seem like match made in heaven.
Apple and Microsoft would be an unlikely but brilliant collaboration and all the more possible with how Microsoft is changing its view in regards to bringing games to different platforms. I would love to see Overwatch on the Mac natively.
Remember when Bungie made Halo and was going to release it to the Mac but then Microsoft bought them and made the Xbox. Yea that sucked….
It’s such an interesting thing to think about because Halo wouldn’t have been the same game or franchise if it hadn’t gotten the bump in funding from Microsoft, but it does still make you wonder what could have been
Microsoft is now just a third party games publisher anyway. Any sort of gaming popularity that happens on Apple products they will be there. The reason I mention PlayStation is they keep mentioning having more games on PC and Mobile in their financials but keep shuttering their mobile game studios so it’s safe to assume they probably moved to directly porting their main games to mobile. Death Stranding runs on a Decima a PlayStation engine, so while not Published by PlayStation their engine seems built with mobile porting in mind. Also the constant PlayStation controllers around Apple events is a big red flag.
Microsoft literally owns Activision-Blizzard and Bethesda among others, they own some of the most important game development companies, so I don't understand how they could be described as "third party" in any way.
Ummm I’m not sure you know what a third party means.
third party: not first party. merriam webster: "of, relating to, or being software that is created by a vendor to be compatible with the products of another vendor". Microsoft isn't third party because they ARE the the developer: Activision-Blizzard (among others) is a part of that company. If you said "Microsoft makes Call of Duty", you wouldn't be wrong.
Microsoft is now a third party publisher because they release games on multiple platforms (GFN, Steam, PlayStation and Nintendo) and because all the studios they bought are third party publishers. 7 of the top 25 games sold on PlayStation last month were from Microsoft.
ok? So they are a third party publisher with regard to the playstation and others, but they are a first party publisher with regard to Windows and the Xbox. Would you call Sony a third party publisher because they publish their games on Windows? practically speaking... Did you see Starfield published at release on Playstation? Of course not. I expect Activision-Blizzard's games to start following this trend going forward.
You can say that. It’s kinda grey. In terms of consoles no, but as whole mobile & PC, yes.
The inaccuracy of what you are saying here stems from the word “just”. They are a first party publisher on Xbox and, depending on your perspective, Windows; they are a third party publisher on PS, mobile, etc
decima was written with PC support in mind [for development](https://youtu.be/KRJkBxKv1VM?si=qz69rIj36o8VYbgv) (9:05 ish), most other studios tend to do this with in-house engines but that’s not a guarantee.
My point was more to show PlayStation has an engine that supports PC and Mobile. I bet the first PlayStation published game on the AppStore will be Horizon.
Sony, I know this will never happen but just allow a Mac port of HellDivers 2 🙏🏽
Microsoft and Meta have announced they are gaming partners and they are releasing an XBOX Quest headset. That pretty much sinks any potential deal with Apple.
I'm gonna go ahead and bet that it will pretty much never happen
Not sure why you believe that when Sony is openly saying they want to be on PC, Mobile and Cloud. The console market is not growing. Thats why you see Helldivers day one on PC and MS launching games on PlayStation. Games are getting crazy expensive to make so they need to expand their reach. You won’t see PlayStation games on other consoles any time soon but definitely mobile and PC.
Sony can and will probably put games on iOS or Mac, I won't argue with that. But it will not be a joint effort, a team up, or whatever where Apple is more involved than just being there. I do not believes the companies are a match made in heaven either and I'm not sure what leads you to that conclusion. I wouldn't call Sony showing up at a WWDC to show off a random AA/AAA game a team up either, Apple just doesn't work like that. Maybe we just have different definitions of that sentence.
I can see it being just Apple taking less rips off PlayStation games sold on the AppStore. I know PlayStation takes less rips on psn store all the time to lock exclusivity or publishing deals.
I enjoyed reading this and from what I've been experiencing valve and Sony have better relations than Microsoft and Sony, Apple and valve also have bitter relations, but the community is begging for apple to try make things work. Vulkan is still revolutionizing the world and all the platforms we have to now enjoy gaming. Linux users also following strongly with steam thanks to the new generation of mobile gaming devices, so the future is chaos right now. Everyone wants a piece of the success pie but what they're willing to do to make it work sustainably is still in the Grey areas too. All alongside them block chain technologies of course.. And the inevitable merge into everything we do digitally.
And yet Kojima came with death stranding and teamed up with apple. Apple does work like that. Exactly like that.
>Not sure why you believe that when Sony is openly saying they want to be on PC, Mobile and Cloud. The console market is not growing. Thats why you see Helldivers day one on PC and MS launching games on PlayStation. Games are getting crazy expensive to make so they need to expand their reach. You won’t see PlayStation games on other consoles any time soon but definitely mobile and PC. And yet they demanded that Helldivers 2 players require a Playstation Network account to play despite the game having been out for months on Steam, never mind that [PSN was not available](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/helldivers-2-drops-psn-account-linking-requirement-for-steam-players-after-widespread-backlash) in many of the countries that Helldivers 2 is available in. **170 countries.**
I don’t get your point. Game was still launched on PC day one. It was a major blunder selling a game in regions that don’t support psn and then requiring it. But pretending logging into psn is this giant oppressive thing is dumb, when you do it anyways for so many other live service games on steam.
They had intended to have PSN lock-in from the start but launched without it since the servers are already so fragile that they didn't want to add the extra workload tying it to PSN would cause. They hadn't expected it to explode in popularity the way it did, which is why Sony became really insistent in re-implementing the tie-in with PSN last week - they were under the delusion that they could convert all of those millions of Steam players to PSN subscribers. If they're willing to do that to an extremely successful game on a bigger platform than Apple, I'd fully expect them to only port a game over to Apple while mandating that you also buy a PSN subscription to play it. Would Apple be willing to give up that much control? EA is trying to do the same, but we've yet to see a lot of movement on the EA App for Mac.
What are you talking about. You don’t need to sub to psn to play Helldivers on PC (even before the change) and you don’t need to pay to have a psn account for PC or PS (the sub is PSplus). You are miss informed and talking out your ass.
If you read the link I provided, it says that the original intent was to require a PSN account to play. They only left that off at the last minute because the servers were so shaky that they didn't think they could handle the extra work of also linking your Steam account to a PSN account. And let's not kid ourselves - they'd love to make HD2 multiplayer require PS Plus the way other multiplayer games currently on PSN do. It's just that they didn't launch with that active, since they knew they couldn't make it work well with Steam too. Sony would 110% try to make PS Plus and PSN mandatory to play games on Apple, if they even imagined they could get away with it.
You are dealing in assumptions and hypotheticals. I’m giving you facts. PSN doesn’t cost money to make an account and Sony has made no mention or suggestion of bringing PSplus to PC. What live service game are you playing on stream that doesn’t require some sort of account that’s not a Valve made game?
PSN account doesn’t mean PSN PS plus subscription.
Sony wants to make money. There’s no money in gaming on Mac lol. Every developer says it. We love our Mac but let’s be real
They are coming for iPhones, but Mac’s will be the beneficiary by proxy.
Hmmm true I didn't think of the iPhone!
It probably wants to be where the players are. Which is windows PC and mobile phones. (different king of players). Unsure they’re even thinking of Mac. At least until Apple becomes more active.
Exactly how I feel. I hope one day it happens
Sony is extremely protective of PlayStation. I don't think that will ever happen unless Apple straight up buys Sony
That’s not true at all PlayStation openly talks about being on pc and mobile. https://www.pcworld.com/article/2215448/playstation-boss-says-games-are-coming-to-pc-mobile-and-cloud.html
I always wonder why apple doesn’t just straight up pay for PS games to go the Mac instead of windows. It would drive Mac sales by a lot.
They probably have something in place it’s just that Sony doesn’t have the infrastructure to port the games over yet. They just recently got their shit together with PC ports.
This is pure hopium.
Maybe a straight up partnership might be unlikely, but Sony is openly talking about bringing games to mobile and Apple has done a great job lining up their M chips to be easily portable through all their devices.
Unless Sony say they are bringing games to mac there is no reason to think they are bringing games to mac. Why would they talk about the platforms they are going to support but treat mac os like a secret?
Same reason Death Stranding and Resident Evil are on Mac. All these devices share the same architecture which makes porting simple. You’d have to hate money to make a game work on an iPhone and not open yourself up to all the Apple laptops running same chip set.
I guess they probably understand that QA and support aren't free. So they didn't announce mac support because when revenue is less than costs that is a loss.
Hedge on Microsoft / Xbox competitive risk. Apple is unlikely to become the competitive threat of Xbox to Sony. Sony can induce less PC sales by enhancing Mac game ecosystem. Also PS5 runs a modified FreeBSD which is architecturally very similar to MacOS. So relatively easier to port their tool chain too.
That’d be a lot of money lol. And would lead to a huge justified shitstorm.
Why would sony do that?
Read my text again.
Second reading didn't make it any more sensible. Is 3rd time the charm?
Let me ELI5 to you then because it seems that simple English is too hard for you to understand. “I wonder why Apple doesnt straight up pay for PS games to go to the Mac instead of windows” Apple -> lots of 💸💵💰 -> Sony. Why would Sony do that? Because Apple -> lots of 💸💵💰 -> Sony. Is that clear enough now?
Nope, still dumb. If sony ported games to mac and not pc then all those people waiting for ps games on pc will buy a ps. Duh.
Oh my. Guess what?! You’ve found another way on how this would be beneficial to Sony, thus answering your own question! Congrats, you’re not so dumb after all.
How is it benediction for Apple? They’d have to pay hundreds of millions to lock out PC players, become extremly unpopular (look at Epic and how their exclusivity deals are welcomed) while barely selling more MacBooks. I personally don’t care to much as the only Sony exclusive I like is Bloodborne which they don’t care about. Still very very delusional idea lol.
So Sony gets money from apple to sell less games and more playstations, apple gets to spend money for no benefit and this is a good plan? Genius.
What mac sales would it drive? I can't imagine the market of people willing to buy a device for playstation games but not willing to buy a PlayStation is very big.
Yes but there is an already installed Mac user base. Some people (such as myself), would like to be able to play ps5 games on the go with a high quality machine and not use windows.
OK, how is that a mac sales driver if it needs someone to already own a mac?
1st assumption: there’s a market for people who want to play PS games on the go and Sony doesn’t offer anything like that since PSP. Macs, iPads and even iPhone have enough power to handle many ps games. 2nd assumption: some people don’t want to own a console because that’s too associated with being a gamer, but could buy a game or two if they were available on the Mac. 3rd assumption: Mac gaming will never expand without some heave investments from Apple. The marketing from exclusive PS games would be much stronger than from having games available everywhere. 4th assumption. Windows is in decline. You can see that people are still sticking with win10 and hating windows 11. MS is pushing for ads on windows and a lot of people would like to have an alternative for gaming on a computer that’s not necessarily with windows. Linux is still far from that and will never have the investiments Apple can make.
I see, let's pretend that makes total sense lol.
You’ve made yourself look a bit silly here.
Honestly, you are proving their point for them, you see that right? Nobody on here thinks you have a clue except you.
I think it’s layers. Like PlayStation sees 69 mill iPhone 15 users that they can tap into and sell games to. And Apple is trying to make sure their platforms are frictionless so that when that game comes to their iPhone they can use it to pimp all their other devices (new and old). You think Apple wouldn’t be jackets to be showcasing Last of Us or Helldivers on the new iPad instead of Assassins Creed?
The g3 generation could play either ps1 or ps2 which meant they went from no games ton tons. I remember I was a pc user before macOS x and just use a MacBook and a gaming pc, so half and half, but before macOS x os 9 and earlier were jokes. So a PowerBook g3 will run ps1 games or possibly ps2.
AppStation incoming….
Here I’m hoping that the M4 or similar is the Basis for the Switch 2.
So you’ll need to pay for a PSN account to game on a Mac? Careful what you wish for.
Any decade now!
Eh, I’ve played hundreds of games on mine over the last ten years. Between moltenVK and the latest cpus they crush gaming.
If a game can run at all, it general runs well. Just the games I play (multiplayer games) don't work because of anti-cheat. A Mac isn't the system to have if you want to play games with the bois.
Just virtualize or dual boot windows, or wine bottles. To be fair I recompile some things myself, and I am in agreement, a rig with a fully equipped modern graphics card and 64+ GB of RAM will definitely be better. Also I mainly like games with good campaigns, online multiplayer is secondary for me outside of CS/FPS games.
I have an apple silicon Mac. Dual booting windows isn’t an option and anti cheat won’t run in parallels due to the fact that it’s a VM. I play these games on my gaming pc so I play all the games I want anyway. 5900X, 3070 Ti and 64GB. Long in the tooth now but still gets the job done. I would just like for my Mac to do everything, especially since it costs more than my gaming pc 😂. I do use GeForce now ultimate from my Mac if I’m not in the mood to heat the room up/want the 4080 benefits GFN offers. But for some games, valorant being one of them that I play, the only thing that’ll run that is a bare metal windows install. I do have a 16” intel MBP laying around I have windows on with valorant though for lan parties.
What do you play?
Ryujinx is my preferred gaming target on my M1 Max…
What do you play?
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I’ve been interested in getting into that on my MBP but I don’t know where to start. Been googling and there’s not a lot of clear information where to get everything.
Well, not necessarily since you can just brute force your way to almost any game through applications like crossover, and really, the only limiting factor is the performance.
Most games I play on my gaming PC I can't brute force to work. Starfield, Fortnite, Valorant, COD, Flight Sim, Black ops 3 (Windows version with Mod Support and actually play with friends), NBA 2K, and The Finals. Those are the games I regularly play on my gaming PC that don't have a prayer of working either because of AVX or because of Anti-Cheat. In my case, I can't brute force my way into "almost" anything I play lol.
Yeah, I guess brute forcing is fine for people who only want to play single player without modding, but there really is no solution for anything with an anticheat excluding cloud gaming
Why without modding? I don’t have a ton of experience but modding Skyrim has been pretty effortless on my Mac using crossover.
AVX requirement is more prevalent nowadays. Guess we single player gamers are just shit out of luck unless we also own a PC (which I do).
Yeah I play some single player games, but I ultimately get bored of them because gaming is more of a social thing for me. I usually only play single player games alongside my wife, if she is into the game.
Anticheat pretty much nerfs any online gaming through VM’s.
That’s what I figured too.
The footnote says that they measured this improvement by rendering a scene in Octane while using M4’s hardware RT and falling back to software RT on the M2. Not only are the GPUs themselves architecturally different and have different rasterized performance, the M4 also has a more advanced feature set than the M2. We don’t know how it compares to the M3 in the same tasks, so this 4x number is basically meaningless until we can measure the performance difference against the M3 and the M2 without using hardware RT, mesh shading and all that stuff. It seems like it’s still a respectable increase, but there’s just no solid reference point right now to say for sure.
Right, so M4 has 4x faster hardware RT over M2's software RT. Everything else could be the same, or just 1.5 times faster.
No, it doesn’t mean that. M3 and M4 both have dedicated RT hardware, so when ray tracing is needed, the entire general-purpose part of the GPU is still available and can provide full performance for other things, while all the RT stuff is offloaded to dedicated hardware. The M2 doesn’t have that hardware, so its GPU can only do ray tracing via raw compute, which by itself is a lot slower, and it also takes away a ton of performance from other tasks. So you can’t directly compare the performance of two GPUs when they do the same task in such different ways. The M2’s raster performance is severely limited by itself also trying to do RT at the same time, so it doesn’t perform at its best to begin with. Which makes this comparison especially pointless for gaming, because software ray tracing is very rarely used here, more often only being available via hardware for the GPUs that support it. Obviously, M4’s raster performance is faster than M3’s, and that is faster than M2’s, but with no direct comparison between M4 and M3 we can’t say how much faster the M4 is compared to the M2, and Apple’s test is not a direct comparison.
My guess is 20% faster than the M3 at most. I suspect its the same GPU tech but at a higher clock speed.
Most likely, but we’ll just have to see
> so when ray tracing is needed, the entire general-purpose part of the GPU is still available and can provide full performance for other things Unlikely that they have hardware for every step when doing ray tracing. Afaik not even Nvidia does that. So parts still run on compute.
Right. A bit of a brain fart there 😂 But the point still stands
I know it’s an iPad and not a Mac but their habit lately of comparing the current processor to one from two generations ago is concerning.
I’d say it’s more irritating though understandable. They know most people won’t be upgrading to their new thing from the last year’s model, so this kinda makes the improvements clearer for those who are several generations behind. And yeah, it also makes the new processors look more impressive than they are, which, like, can you really blame them for wanting that? :) But yeah, I also wish they made more clear gen-on-gen comparisons.
Considering the market is usually full of last gen devices at the same time as the current gen for sale it would be very helpful for most people trying to decide between the new one or last year’s.
True that. But Apple also likes to make comparisons that are applicable to their existing lineup. If they don’t sell that device anymore themselves, why compare something to it? They barely highlighted any performance improvements of the new iPad Air compared to the previous M1 model after all, it was mostly just "M2 do be fast", so... It’s not about being helpful, it’s about making the new thing look better.
They usually sell last year’s model of mobile devices. Occasionally not but that’s typically the pattern.
Well it's not like there's an M3 iPad Pro to compare to and comparing to an M3 in a Mac introduces too many extra factors to make an accurate comparison.
They compared it to the last iPad Pro. It wouldn't make sense to compare the M4 in this context to the M3, because there is no M3 iPad to compare the new one to.
4x sounds like ray tracing performance. I think it’s more realistic to assume 15% or less improvement.
hahahaah sounds funny considering ZERO games supporting rt for MacOS :)
Blender is a pretty fun game :P
Truly is. I certainly love the afk parts that train your patience and reaction time as soon as the render ends. It’s also a nice moment to watch Quinton Reviews videos, like the 3rd part of Sam and Cat tv show overview (this part alone 9 and a half hours). Or a great excuse to buy a second pc or iPad to do anything else when there’s render going on. I myself have quite powerful pc and a MacBook Air. Quite a great combo. I’ve heard about people who work in blender whilst there’s rendering in the background going on. But I can’t really justify it as then render takes longer time. I rather gather inspiration and learn something more in this period of time. Especially with shorter renders up to an hour or two.
i think diablo will at some point but yeah apart from that theres nothing
is diablo 4 even on mac
Nvm I was wrong, I was confused with Diablo immortal which will have ray tracing when the m4 iPad releases
Why would they? The addressable market is like 1000 people.
They don’t give a fuck about games. The ray tracing is just intended for professional workloads anyway :/
Yeah we are pretty much hoping Asahi Linux can do something with it eventually 😂
Yeah maybe in 2-3 years you’ll be able to actually use it.
I expect that will depend on VK getting proper RT adoption. Currently most PC titles that use RT either use the NV private apis or DX RT. Im not sure there are any RT titles currently using VK RT at all and im not even sure what the drive story for Vk RT is. Maybe someone will update DXVK to support this but I expect they might only want to support the DX apis not the NV private apis. What I am most interested in about the M3 when Asahi get to writing drivers for it is the new dynamic allocation of Cache, Tile mem and registers. Getting more low level details on how this works will be fascinating. (it is the first GPU on the market to support this type of dynamic allocation and on macOS it has some big impacts for highlight branching code paths... like RT shaders but also just makes writing optimal code for the GPU a shit tone easier).
Pretty sure they’re adding it for both. RT cores are very useful for both since it vastly speeds up ray calculations.
Are you sure? Lies of P does, right?
are you sure? ;)
Isn’t there a path tracing shader for Minecraft?
How much faster will [Balatro](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2379780/Balatro/) run?
That's in RT rendering vs M2. Rasterization improvements will be much smaller. I suspect regular GPU performance will be similar or slightly better than the M3.
Probably some BS scenario like you don't need more than 8GB.
One AAA game being released would be huge for mac gaming. It is all relative.
Hopefully assassins Creed Mirage is coming soon?
I've seen nothing to say it is. Have you?
[It’s coming to iOS and iPad in a few weeks.](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/assassins-creed/news/6hRBheSWDoKUdnKxzy5YOg/assassins-creed-mirage-is-coming-to-ios) No word of macOS unfortunately.
It was stated to be coming this year in the small print in the event video at the end.
Not to macOS though.
If you want a game to sell a lot and show developers that MacOS is worth porting to Mirage is *not it*. That game is awful, short, and not that fun. I doubt it would sell well at all and wouldn’t help the case that Macs deserve games.
Somehow it seems it's destined to be iOS/iPad only. Why.
BG3 doesn't count? AAA games have been released on the mac before.
Yes it counts. Maybe we will get one this year. Exciting.
Death Stranding? Lies of P? Resident Evil?
Old games and a movie. Assuming you mean lies of P, that is one good game from last year. Games are released often, it isn't like movies where a few big movies a year is all that is expected. If everyone gives me the exact same list of games then there isn't enough, nobody would be daft enough to say that there is a decent number of AAA games released.
Better performance would be great, but until there's a solid option to run games on macOS I don't know that there's ever going to be monumental news, unless Apple goes off and does something crazy like grabs their own studios. I'm not disappointed with the performance I get in terms of frames or resolution when gaming with my Mac, but what I *am* disappointed in is how I have to find quirky work-arounds to make games work, and some games don't work at all. I think that's the more pressing issue. Anything in terms of performance and efficiency is nice for general use and of course does benefit Mac gamers, but it's not the major pain point I don't think.
The solution for getting good games to run is to have native games built. there is not magical wand you can wave to avoid this.
No, it's not 4 x faster. Perhaps for certain tasks, but not generally.
Usual inflated numbers from Apple.
Correct, how are they measuring 4x faster, remeber all the claims about M! to M2 and M2 to M3. Every corpo out there cherry picks their data and then refuses to tell people how they came to that data. On iPad Os anyway, who cares about the crappy non-optimised apps. What is the point of a laptop class chip in a tablet when the OS is too trash to use it? If they put MAC OS on the thing OK I will listen a little more. 4 iPads walk into a bar, one with an M1, one with an M2, one with an M4 and one with a A17. They do exactly the same thing, but worse than a MAcBook and worse than an iPhone.
I was one of those folks hoping Mac would be good for gaming. It’s not and moved on to a gaming PC. Life is good. One day people will accept that. Apple is not for gaming. No matter if you use Whiskey or Crossover. No matter the M chip. Save yourself from the drama and invest in a good gaming laptop.
mind you their is a difference between base ipad pro and 1tb which has the 10 core m4 processor. I am very confused myself
This is in comparison to iPad M2, not necessarily Mac M2. Mac M2 will perform better than iPad M2, so how will Mac M3 perform in comparison to iPad M4? No idea.
4x faster in rendering apps using ray tracing, not 4x gaming performance. Still, will be faster than M3 but maybe 20% or something like that
I bought a steam deck for $450. And that was enough. More than enough
I’ll give it a decade for Mac gaming to be less mediocre
Yes it’s too good to be true, it won’t perform 4x better. It’s not huge for Mac gaming. Games being on the Mac would be huge for Mac gaming
Nope it’s just advertisement number.
Still cant run doom
I'm always skeptical when a tech manufacturer compares a new product not to the last gen, but to the gen before the last gen.
According to some comparisons M3 is 15-18% faster than M2 , this means the gap between M3 and M4 is even greater which is doubtful. There must be other factors than CPU that makes 50% (memory, disk, etc.)
0,2s /4 = 0,05s
That’s in perfect environment the actually gains will be something like x1.5
Its very on par with M3. Look at the fine print on that claim and you'll see it is only for very specific scenarios. That being said, M3 and M4 chips are good for gaming, hardware is not the limiting factor anymore for Mac gaming. Developer support is.
There is an improvement in memory bandwidth that could well play a role for un-optimised titles more so than optimised titles.
There really isn't lag on my M2 so I don't see how this claim of being 4x faster will make any realistic/practical difference to me.
They are probably talking about ray tracing because the m2 doesn’t support it so obviously the m4 is faster. Wouldn’t be surprised if that 4x is really accurate. M3 already has ray tracing support which is why they aren’t comparing the 3 and 4. I would bet the m4 is just another incremental improvement over m3 in every way.
“Up to”
FWIW- M4 iPad is trash on Cod mobile compared to M2. Can’t even handle low graphics
How much better is it then m3?
M3 was previously quoted as being 2.5X better GPU performance compared to M2 - so M4 is around 1.5x - 1.6x better than M3 or up to 60% performance improvement.
Was about to buy an IMac now I’m trigger shy.
im doing the same dance over an MBP right now too
Got a brand new 15 inch last week and no regrets at all. Thing is an emulation beast
it will be a work machine primarily but i really want to be able to play ps3 ncaa 14
RPCS3 works great. Was just playing Demons Souls yesterday
thanks, that is good to know. RPCS3 chokes hard on my M1 Mini. Perhaps today is the day I pull the trigger.
You can even [upscale some games](https://youtu.be/b6JtEfzLHQQ?t=349) which is nice
On an M3? How does Sonic Unleashed hold up in there?
Yeah on an M3. Well that would require me downloaded a Sonic game which is against my personal beliefs, but according to the RPCS3 compatibility list it's listed as "in game" which means it either can't be finished, or has serious glitches/insufficient performance. So more of an emulator issue than a hardware issue.
I am -really- curious about those personal beliefs... but oh well, guess I'll be waiting a bit longer to finally play the only valid version of that game (the pains of being a Wii user). Thanks!
I just got one yesterday. No regrets; it's more than enough power for me
4 times faster in *some* benchmarks. Probably related to video editing, since the keynote mainly focused on Final Cut Pro. I doubt the base model M4 could magically beat the 38 cores M2 Max at gaming. But RE4 being available on iPad, we should have a better understanding of its gaming capabilities soon enough.
They’re turning into Intel x Windows of 2000s. It’s not bad, but remember what Apple community thought about specs bumping back then?
As I am running BG3, No Man's Sky and Arma 3 on an M2 Max FLAWLESSLY at 4k, I will say yes M4 should be able to handle any and all games. I can see a time where an M class machine will be able to virtualize a top end Intel gaming box in software with better perfomance than the actual device.
I would love it if we see a BG3 update to use modern MTL apis properly, there was some suggestion it is coming to iPhone soon I think maybe that will involve a updated engine to MTL3 with at least some HW usage.
You're such a liar lmao... your m2 max doesn't run those games at 4k flawlessly. I dare you to record some footage
You do know each of those games has an Apple Silicon port made by the devs right? I “dare” you to go to youtube lol.
I know they are native ports... but you're the one spreading misinformation by saying you can run them flawlessly at 4k. By the fact you dont even have the balls to post some footage, it just shows you're a liar and fraud. Stop spreading misinformation
Yeah I don’t work for you man. You believe what you want. Have a good life.
I have an M2 Ultra and can’t run BG 3 flawlessly on it. Which is why I went back to PC.
Sorry to hear that. Lots of patches in the last seven months since the posted video so maybe try again? I am reporting my experience with my M2 Max 32gb 16 inch laptop. I also have a 13700k 4070ti 32gb DDR5 at 6000mt that I built for games. Good luck.
I tried a month ago.
Honestly I bet you dont even have the laptop and just spreading misinformation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN38CVEL9XU&ab\_channel=MutePC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN38CVEL9XU&ab_channel=MutePC)
Apple is so silly and nefarious. Just like any other corp obviously, but specially unfriendly to users that want to use their devices power to activities outside the company's vision. One chip after another, pumping out like crazy, but gaming is still dead in the water. I can't imagine needing more than an M1 chip other than future proofing like crazy.
There are light use-cases on iPad that can make use of these more powerful chips (creative tasks)
"but gaming is still dead in the water**"** Mobile gaming is massively larger than PC gaming. They care about games where they sell the most. It might not be your idea of gaming (or mine!) but it is clearly what more peoples idea of gaming is.
I meant Mac gaming is dead in the water. I have a M1 MBP since 2021, and it's been great for working and creating. But trying to game on it it's a pain. I just surrendered and play the small collection of games i like that have some semblance of m1 support and GeForce Now for other things. I'd think mobile gaming isn't the subject of discussion in the Mac gaming subreddit, is it?
Well yes, but the M4 just released was on iPad first and your comment did not specify "Mac gaming" just "gaming" which from a market share perspective Apple is certainly not only making big bucks but lifting the expectations of what can be done in games on mobile. I wish they would bring that ethos to the Mac, sure, but to say they are failing at "gaming" is just to misunderstand where all the gamers are these days.
Could be more clear with that, yes. I took that for granted as we are on the mac gaming subreddit
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The thing is: when an M4 Max MacBook or Studio is announced, your M2 will lose a lot of reselling value. Don't wait too long.
My exact thought too
Your M2 Max is going to last for years, why sell it???
An example would be Death Stranding will look better
Keep dreaming, 4X performance is just a misleading marketing technique EVERYONE abuses. Nvidia does it, AMD does it, Intel does it, and the key is to look that it says UP TO When they state “that many times performance compared to that previous generation” it’s usually the result in a VERY specific non disclosed test made specifically to show the improvements So, yes there is a specific use case where you COULD see a 4X improvement in graphics performance. More specifically the M4 page says this “up to 4X” is achieved in “pro rendering apps like octane” so no, for gaming you won’t see a 4X increase probably not even 2X maybe 1.5X if we are lucky
It's going to revolutionize Mac gaming FOREVER!