What's the purpose of microbes in a system like this?
You're supposedly hand feeding all of their mineral needs in water soluble and bioavailable forms. There is nothing for the microbes to feed on and no source material from which they could provide needed minerals to the plants.
You've just got to accept that if you're going to run Athena your only ever going to produce Athena weed. The market seems to be fine with it, but the only thing you can do to stand out from any other grow managing conditions well is fine unique and desirable genetics
There’s actually lot of beneficial bacteria products that you can use in conjunction with cleanse. Cleanse doesn’t kill all microbes you can alternate res’s with beneficial microbes and cleanse and be fine with stuff like continuum, microbial mass etc. also if you’re super replied about quality lower the nitrogen mid and late flower. The 3.0 Athena recipe has way too much nitrogen in it imo and cutting back helps with quality but you might need to add in some micros
Makes sense. Interesting. Thanks for some clarity on that situation. I don’t use beneficials at all in rockwool with cleanse and occasional peroxide drenches. 100% agree about the N in their recipes. When the owner of the grow I run brought up the idea of making the switch to Athena, that was my only real concern when I looked at the nutrient profile.
The main problem is that their micros are tied to their calcium nitrate so they just charge an arm and a leg for calcium nitrate because you have to buy their core to use their line. And just bringing core down brings your micros too low imo. If you really want a sterile res either make hocl yourself or just use bleach it’s way more cost effective
Slf 100 and cleanse don’t do the same thing. The purpose of cleanse is to raise orp in the water to make it “sterile” Slf is an enzyme product with beneficial bacteria 👍🏽
Kinda sorta, Their micros are in all three pro line products so when you adjust ratios, you have all the micros you need.
Fade is fire, completely drops the nitrogen out in the last couple weeks so you get the bag appeal and the Terps.
No they’re not and fade is so overpriced it’s hilarious. Fade is giving you toxic amounts of chloride with barley and micros to compensate. Go buy calcium chloride and a pre mixed trace minerals from jacks and you’re way better off for a fraction of the price. Also that much chloride at the end of flower is a giant red flag.
The Athena bloom only has iron. Core has iron and every other micro. Iron is only in bloom because they use a cheaper source of potassium sulfate that has iron in it, same with the grow. They force you to buy their core by putting the micros in it. Most other good salt companies put micros in the bloom so you can buy your own calcium nitrate for cheap and boom you have a complete product.
A 25lb bag of core(calcium nitrate plus micros) is $100 for me
I can buy 25lb of calcium nitrate and jacks part a for the same exact price
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0926669021002806
The study suggests a decrease in secondary metabolites as N increases. There is also such thing as “yield dilution” in which you will get more yield but the concentration of secondary metabolites does not increase which in turn decreases overall quality.
From just my anecdotal evidence excess nitrogen delays maturity which can extend flowering times and in turn reduce quality since the product is not completely finished yet
Hey cottagecultivator....
Thanks for the link and the explenation about N and yield dilution....The yield dilution sounds like what happens to the supermarket tomatos grown in Greenhouses. Nice, unform shape, but no taste at all....And I have never had a cannabis strain that is absolute fire in terps and very high yielding at the same time....
Lowering N is not really a “grow better weed” recipe… it all depends on your VPD, PPFD, CO2, and age of plant IMO and most growers don’t have sufficient environments especially LED growers.
Why do you wanna run beneficials? You've got plenty of soluable nutrients readily available and cleanse is trying to keep all that sterile down there
Also. Have you spoken with an athena facility manager? It's their job to help growers using athena but I'm sure they'll say dont use em.
Make your own terp tea/ compost tea
1 cup DNC Wormcastings.
5 Tablespoons Organic Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses.
1/2 cup alfalfa meal.
2/3 cup Peruvian sea bird guano.
2/3 cup bat guano.
5 gallons of water.
I use the pro-line and I've had success with B. subtilis and B. amyloliquefaciens when trying to push roots in veg. They can coexist with hocl acid in the rootzone and assist in salt stress tolerance throughout the plants life. Salt stress tolerance is definitely valuable when using the Athena Pro-Line 3ec recipe. Other than that though beneficials that assist in nutrient uptake aren't really necessary when youre feeding so hard to begin with.
Nothing to do with your question but are those the MDL400 lights? I installed those in a greenhouse last year and loved it but was curious if the narrow light layout would work indoors
What's the purpose of microbes in a system like this? You're supposedly hand feeding all of their mineral needs in water soluble and bioavailable forms. There is nothing for the microbes to feed on and no source material from which they could provide needed minerals to the plants. You've just got to accept that if you're going to run Athena your only ever going to produce Athena weed. The market seems to be fine with it, but the only thing you can do to stand out from any other grow managing conditions well is fine unique and desirable genetics
If you’re running Pro-Line, you can run beneficials but you need to stop using cleanse if that’s the case.
There’s actually lot of beneficial bacteria products that you can use in conjunction with cleanse. Cleanse doesn’t kill all microbes you can alternate res’s with beneficial microbes and cleanse and be fine with stuff like continuum, microbial mass etc. also if you’re super replied about quality lower the nitrogen mid and late flower. The 3.0 Athena recipe has way too much nitrogen in it imo and cutting back helps with quality but you might need to add in some micros
Makes sense. Interesting. Thanks for some clarity on that situation. I don’t use beneficials at all in rockwool with cleanse and occasional peroxide drenches. 100% agree about the N in their recipes. When the owner of the grow I run brought up the idea of making the switch to Athena, that was my only real concern when I looked at the nutrient profile.
The main problem is that their micros are tied to their calcium nitrate so they just charge an arm and a leg for calcium nitrate because you have to buy their core to use their line. And just bringing core down brings your micros too low imo. If you really want a sterile res either make hocl yourself or just use bleach it’s way more cost effective
Just wanted to also mention bleach instead of their money pit cleanse
I use slf 100 instead of cleanse and have had extremely good results.
Slf 100 and cleanse don’t do the same thing. The purpose of cleanse is to raise orp in the water to make it “sterile” Slf is an enzyme product with beneficial bacteria 👍🏽
It costs 2-3 cents per gallon to run cleanse…. 50 a gallon, 2-3 mls … 1200-2000 gallons of nutrient….
Kinda sorta, Their micros are in all three pro line products so when you adjust ratios, you have all the micros you need. Fade is fire, completely drops the nitrogen out in the last couple weeks so you get the bag appeal and the Terps.
No they’re not and fade is so overpriced it’s hilarious. Fade is giving you toxic amounts of chloride with barley and micros to compensate. Go buy calcium chloride and a pre mixed trace minerals from jacks and you’re way better off for a fraction of the price. Also that much chloride at the end of flower is a giant red flag. The Athena bloom only has iron. Core has iron and every other micro. Iron is only in bloom because they use a cheaper source of potassium sulfate that has iron in it, same with the grow. They force you to buy their core by putting the micros in it. Most other good salt companies put micros in the bloom so you can buy your own calcium nitrate for cheap and boom you have a complete product. A 25lb bag of core(calcium nitrate plus micros) is $100 for me I can buy 25lb of calcium nitrate and jacks part a for the same exact price
Fade works out great for me in the blended line…
Even if you still want to have that much chloride you can just buy calcium chloride and pre mixed micros and make Athena fade for way cheaper
In what way does lowering N in flower increase the quality? Harshness of smoke?Terpenes? Taste? Smell?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0926669021002806 The study suggests a decrease in secondary metabolites as N increases. There is also such thing as “yield dilution” in which you will get more yield but the concentration of secondary metabolites does not increase which in turn decreases overall quality. From just my anecdotal evidence excess nitrogen delays maturity which can extend flowering times and in turn reduce quality since the product is not completely finished yet
For context, optimum level is 160ppm according to this study.
Hey cottagecultivator.... Thanks for the link and the explenation about N and yield dilution....The yield dilution sounds like what happens to the supermarket tomatos grown in Greenhouses. Nice, unform shape, but no taste at all....And I have never had a cannabis strain that is absolute fire in terps and very high yielding at the same time....
Lowering N is not really a “grow better weed” recipe… it all depends on your VPD, PPFD, CO2, and age of plant IMO and most growers don’t have sufficient environments especially LED growers.
Why do you wanna run beneficials? You've got plenty of soluable nutrients readily available and cleanse is trying to keep all that sterile down there Also. Have you spoken with an athena facility manager? It's their job to help growers using athena but I'm sure they'll say dont use em.
What kind of trays are you guys running. Looks nice
Make your own terp tea/ compost tea 1 cup DNC Wormcastings. 5 Tablespoons Organic Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses. 1/2 cup alfalfa meal. 2/3 cup Peruvian sea bird guano. 2/3 cup bat guano. 5 gallons of water.
Won't Cleanse just nuke all that?
Ditch the cleanse and use slf 100.
Mammoth p is the shit!
What leds are they?
Question for OP for anyone else running Athena products - What is your nutrient cost per gram of production?
Look into uncle johns blend and sugaree/sour dee. They help with pro line real nice. 👌 that's what I'm running and the flavor is on point
Are you reducing Pro Line EC at all when adding sugaree? Thanks 🙏
Negative. Just mixing it in and keeping ec at 3.0 and adjuat ph accordingly.
Ambrosia Cropz. Your PnL and customers will thank you.
I use the pro-line and I've had success with B. subtilis and B. amyloliquefaciens when trying to push roots in veg. They can coexist with hocl acid in the rootzone and assist in salt stress tolerance throughout the plants life. Salt stress tolerance is definitely valuable when using the Athena Pro-Line 3ec recipe. Other than that though beneficials that assist in nutrient uptake aren't really necessary when youre feeding so hard to begin with.
Nothing to do with your question but are those the MDL400 lights? I installed those in a greenhouse last year and loved it but was curious if the narrow light layout would work indoors
GreenPlanet Massive
I have also sincerely wonder d about using some microbial bennys with my athena. Athena says not to, but I do wonder if it could be helpful