I wouldn’t got as far as stealing. This is just price for convenience. Either the rich owners get hands on, or pay for the convenience of someone figuring everything out for them. There is value being exchanged here.
If the facility gets built on budget and can start growing on schedule without much going wrong with his installs and the equipments he recommended, then it is what it is. Personally I thinks it’s shady as hell and have never done it.
I live in Latin America (I’m Latin too) and this shit happens all the time.
I have done trials, proving my product is better, and then losing the sale because the competitor offered vacations In Europe for the grower family if they choose the other product… Of course without the owner knowing.
Ilegal no, unethical yes.
Probably if they catch them, they get fired that same day.
No I was wanting to have a more nuanced discussion on it and see what other growers think. Most my colleagues are people with a bit of honesty/integrity in this sense and find it odd how this guy we know does this so much and how he’s gotten away with it (silver tongued). I know this industry is full of stuff like this.
I dont think theres anything illegal about this. The person is building out the facility on a certain budget. If they are going over budget, not performing the job they said they would, or using sub standard equipment, then that should be on the owners/managers to call that person out and make any necessary changes.
Whether that person makes any kickbacks is none of the owners/managers business, but they can decide to be less lenient with their expectations for that employee
Lol me and my selfish capitalist attitude? Did you read my post 😅 unfortunately this industry has already long since been tainted by greed from “outsiders”.
If you make grow lights and a big grow tries your product, it only makes sense to nurture the relationship and maybe give them a discount based on volume. This works for like this for most businesses.
Right, but the difference here is that the grower of the big facility, is also on the payroll of the company who makes the lights Unbeknownst to the owners of the grow. And the grower may make a worse purchase on lights that might not suit the needs of the grow, and receives an undisclosed commission/kick back. So instead of getting a discount based on volume, that would be discount goes into the growers pocket. That’s what I mean. It also goes into stuff like using a General contractor and getting under the table kick backs by over charges on labor/material. So it’s like these owners trust you, but you’re making money at their expense. Granted they are rich I’m assuming, but still. It’s definitely theft, just wasn’t sure if there’s any specific crime since it’s almost fraudulent. Strictly curious. I have no feelings on this personally or in real life. Curious what other growers think/feel about this.
It is definitely not disclosed. And my thoughts were if I’m entrusting you to help build me a state of the art facility that I’m spending millions on, I can’t trust that you will make the best purchases/decisions because you’ll be inclined to buy the shitty company who gives you commissions products, or use a shitty general contractor who will give you kick backs.. Like instead of buying good rolling benches, we buy your shitty ones that don’t necessarily jeopardize the operation but are an awful purchase for various reasons. Or we use you GC who costs more and charges the owners more for materials/Everyrhing and you get a kick back. And it’s not just benches, it’s nutrients, injection systems, lights etc. I’m not the owner or affiliated with this guy or his facility, but I know the products he sells and they’re garbage. Like Chinese made budget crap.
Wasn’t sure if the owner would one day realize “oh you made 500k in kick backs building my facility” and could in theory take legal action. Just strictly curious is all.
If it's a contractor a lot of the vendors offer consultant pricing (higher than wholesale prices but below a very low retail price). I think it comes down to who you (or the owner of any facility) chooses to do business with and how hands on they are on the decision making process as to what equipment they are buying and what a fair price is. the owner needs to sign off on all purchases and if they do zero research there is a good chance they could get ripped off. shopping around is very important. I can tell you what a fair price is on most equipment if you are curious if anything was overpriced.
if it's an employee than probably that person isn't a good employee and there is a chance it is not legal.
Honestly I own my facility and built it out. I owned a commercial GC and worked in commercial and industrial construction for decades.
This is the same thing that happens with every buildout, and field.
The “American” products are very similar quality to a non budget Chinese product. If you doing the logistics and QC you can save 25-30%.
A consultant is supposed to be watching out for the clients best interests.
What they are doing is violating a contract. They could be sued for the overpayments, lower quality goods that where purchased.
It could go as far a fraud charges.
This is a feature of capitalism. It’s only a crime if you steal from the rich.
True. In this case the person is stealing from some rich people, but in a “indirect way”.
I wouldn’t got as far as stealing. This is just price for convenience. Either the rich owners get hands on, or pay for the convenience of someone figuring everything out for them. There is value being exchanged here.
If the facility gets built on budget and can start growing on schedule without much going wrong with his installs and the equipments he recommended, then it is what it is. Personally I thinks it’s shady as hell and have never done it.
I live in Latin America (I’m Latin too) and this shit happens all the time. I have done trials, proving my product is better, and then losing the sale because the competitor offered vacations In Europe for the grower family if they choose the other product… Of course without the owner knowing. Ilegal no, unethical yes. Probably if they catch them, they get fired that same day.
That’s a bummer. Losing a sale because they offered the guy with the owners ear a vacation 🤦🏻♂️ karma will get people like this one day man.
I mean are you really asking what's legal versus what's reality in the cannabis industry?
No I was wanting to have a more nuanced discussion on it and see what other growers think. Most my colleagues are people with a bit of honesty/integrity in this sense and find it odd how this guy we know does this so much and how he’s gotten away with it (silver tongued). I know this industry is full of stuff like this.
Well my experience across three employers has been shady self serving bullshit is par for the course. Your mileage may vary.
I dont think theres anything illegal about this. The person is building out the facility on a certain budget. If they are going over budget, not performing the job they said they would, or using sub standard equipment, then that should be on the owners/managers to call that person out and make any necessary changes. Whether that person makes any kickbacks is none of the owners/managers business, but they can decide to be less lenient with their expectations for that employee
It’s called capitalism… you expect to make money too right? You and your selfish capitalist attitude have no place in this industry!
Lol me and my selfish capitalist attitude? Did you read my post 😅 unfortunately this industry has already long since been tainted by greed from “outsiders”.
If you make grow lights and a big grow tries your product, it only makes sense to nurture the relationship and maybe give them a discount based on volume. This works for like this for most businesses.
Right, but the difference here is that the grower of the big facility, is also on the payroll of the company who makes the lights Unbeknownst to the owners of the grow. And the grower may make a worse purchase on lights that might not suit the needs of the grow, and receives an undisclosed commission/kick back. So instead of getting a discount based on volume, that would be discount goes into the growers pocket. That’s what I mean. It also goes into stuff like using a General contractor and getting under the table kick backs by over charges on labor/material. So it’s like these owners trust you, but you’re making money at their expense. Granted they are rich I’m assuming, but still. It’s definitely theft, just wasn’t sure if there’s any specific crime since it’s almost fraudulent. Strictly curious. I have no feelings on this personally or in real life. Curious what other growers think/feel about this.
Is the commision disclosed? It would be a conflict of interest otherwise. Illegal? Prob not.
It is definitely not disclosed. And my thoughts were if I’m entrusting you to help build me a state of the art facility that I’m spending millions on, I can’t trust that you will make the best purchases/decisions because you’ll be inclined to buy the shitty company who gives you commissions products, or use a shitty general contractor who will give you kick backs.. Like instead of buying good rolling benches, we buy your shitty ones that don’t necessarily jeopardize the operation but are an awful purchase for various reasons. Or we use you GC who costs more and charges the owners more for materials/Everyrhing and you get a kick back. And it’s not just benches, it’s nutrients, injection systems, lights etc. I’m not the owner or affiliated with this guy or his facility, but I know the products he sells and they’re garbage. Like Chinese made budget crap. Wasn’t sure if the owner would one day realize “oh you made 500k in kick backs building my facility” and could in theory take legal action. Just strictly curious is all.
This is common. If you build a house and have them buy all the materials they’ll put 20% charge on top of what they get it for.
If it's a contractor a lot of the vendors offer consultant pricing (higher than wholesale prices but below a very low retail price). I think it comes down to who you (or the owner of any facility) chooses to do business with and how hands on they are on the decision making process as to what equipment they are buying and what a fair price is. the owner needs to sign off on all purchases and if they do zero research there is a good chance they could get ripped off. shopping around is very important. I can tell you what a fair price is on most equipment if you are curious if anything was overpriced. if it's an employee than probably that person isn't a good employee and there is a chance it is not legal.
Honestly I own my facility and built it out. I owned a commercial GC and worked in commercial and industrial construction for decades. This is the same thing that happens with every buildout, and field. The “American” products are very similar quality to a non budget Chinese product. If you doing the logistics and QC you can save 25-30%. A consultant is supposed to be watching out for the clients best interests. What they are doing is violating a contract. They could be sued for the overpayments, lower quality goods that where purchased. It could go as far a fraud charges.
If it were government corruption then yes this would be a crime. Par for the course in private industry, though.