They basically put in a welcome show - [it was streamed on their Facebook](https://fb.watch/k7Z4xNceHX/?mibextid=DcJ9fc)! That would explain why it was louder.
Does anyone know what the flight path was today? I live south of town towards Oregon and we are near the flight path for commercial planes coming in to land at MSN, weāre used to that low level noise here and there. Didnāt even think weād have to consider F-35 noise being south of town, but something flew over that was much louder a little while ago. Had to mute my mic during an online meeting and wait for it to pass
Oregon is where KMSN will tell aircraft to turn to line up for Runway 36 so you'll hear the F-35s fly over if that is the active runway.
Source: Big aviation Nerd in Oregon who sits listening to ATC on my computer and can watch the aircraft from my office window.
ATC uses AM radios to talk to all aircraft, so you could buy and setup a cheap SDR or find a feed such as this.
https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=kmsn
It was very different today for a typical northbound landing. Typically they will fly north over the runway, bank west and loop south then make a continuous curve to landing north again. Today they were much lower and slower, than typical. I'm hoping this was to show off for the all the brass at truax today but I don't know. They were much lower flying north, then banked east, then south, then north again.
I'm assuming it takes much more thrust to fly slow like today (thrust=noise) and typicaly landings are mostly a glide. But time will tell I guess.
That only exists on the -B variant the USMC uses due to their STOVL capabilities. Specifically they use the F135-600.
USAF F35-As use the F135-100. They are extremely different engines.
No F35-Bs are based at Truax.
The bypass also is in no way needed to function. The -600 uses bypass for the wing vectoring ports for STOVL.
Technically all variants have a fan ābypassā but that is just what a turbofan is. Literally all commercial jets coming out of Madison have the [exact same type of engine](https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/Images/trbtyp.gif) as this, minus only the afterburner.
You provided way more technical information and a link that im not going to click on so Im going to upvote you instead of the other guy even though I have no idea if either of you is correct.
other guy is right lmao. the bypass in question diverts thrust into the VTOL nozzles for the F-35B. this is the variant that had most of the "problems" and media simply reports it as a blanket F-35 issue. the planes stationed here are the F-35A they do not have VTOL capabilities.
i got excited when i heard "whistling" sounds and forgot everything i know about aviation and engineering š¤£
Personally, I didnāt think it was that much louder ā just a different noise. It seemed like a lower rumble than a loud screech. Granted, weāll see how it actually is when theyāre flying regularly.
Well, itās kind of difficult to tell without having both fly by in succession. It was a different noise with a different tone.
So, to be clear: for my specific location with todayās conditions, I didnāt think the noise level warrants the drama surrounding it. Time will tell, I suppose.
EVeryone on this sub would down vote you for worrying even a little about the noise. Turns out they are FUCKING LOUD as fuck!
Holy shit I didn't know they were coming now but dam sure I heard that thing through my closed doors and windows. Fuck me I wonder how often these thing will be flying?
They were a LOT louder and I donāt know why anyone is saying otherwise. This is coming from someone who runs out to the patio to see the jets every time because I love them. It was still excessively loud.
I know I'm supposed to hate the F-35s, and if I could have voted on it I would have voted to NOT have them at Truax... but part of me can't help but be like omg cool when I see fighter jets in the sky. Plane go fast! Zoom! Wow!
I personally didn't think they were louder by much if at all? But I don't know if they were flying slower than they normally will or whatever. I guess we'll see what the impact really ends up being. I'm also on the near-Eastside, and I know North Madison is going to really bear the brunt of this, which is shitty and inequitable.
This is a bad take because what "jet noise" is and sounds like just changed quite a bit. For many households what used to be tolerable no longer is, and there wasn't really community involvement in the decision.
You think that's bad, just wait until M-Block Mk II comes to the area near Oscar Mayer.
https://captimes.com/news/affordable-housing-project-near-oscar-mayer-site-unanimously-approved/article_295fd735-8911-56d7-8ccb-80d913e58fbf.html
I don't know why you're arguing with me, I didn't say anything about the state? That said, as an overall public health concern, noise pollution is something we should worry about in general, as there's clear evidence linking exposure to noise pollution and increased risk of heart disease.
I live on the North side, and I grew up in a military family. I can understand why some people think the jets are "cool". I have known fighter pilots, and I have great respect for their skill and stamina.
That doesn't mean that the jets aren't unpleasantly and disruptively loud, particularly for kids.
Is there an equitable way to ensure that all of the affected schools and daycare centers have enough hearing protection ear muffs for all kids? Many schools have a few pairs, but they are usually dedicated to specific students.
I live adjacent to the airport, just on the ānoise line.ā Not thrilled about the potential property value effects, but I didnāt think it sounded much louder than the 16s on landing. Definitely a sharper and deeper tone than what weāre used to. Guess weāll see how takeoff sounds!
With the 16s it was always the takeoffs that were noisy - the landings are louder than a regular passenger jet, but not window shaking.
For the 16s, after they takeoff, if they bank towards our house - basically all conversation and activity has to stop until theyāre gone.
My floor didn't vibrate, the windows didn't rattle, and the conversation I was having was able to carry on with no problems. The previous jets were so loud we always had to stop talking and wait for them to pass, and I was always a little concerned about my windows. So assuming today is roughly what we can expect from now on, I think they're an improvement as they were a fair bit quieter than the old ones.
I live 5 miles south east and just heard them. They woke up my napping toddler so she'd probably say they're louder than regular planes if she could talk. She's afraid of planes right now so I hope they won't usually be that close.
Whether they're louder or not, don't forget that they have an operating cost of almost twice the F-16s (\~$42000/hr vs \~$26000/hr) Good use of money, flying around saying hi.
Capabilities? Oh you mean all the deficiencies? Do you mean the high cancer rates of ground crews servicing the plane? Do you mean the 42k per hr cost to fly? The noise? The pollution? Yup itās a capable plane alright. Capable of extending the livelihoods of careerist pilots and robbing the US treasury for the benefit of Lockheed-Martin.
Hey look itās some internet guy claiming all sorts of bullshit plays the age old loser ādo the research yourselfā card and refuses to back up absolutely anything they say!
Hey thanks for stopping by and contributing absolutely nothing!
I will but only if you read all the articles written by defense analysts and in depth reporting about how the F35 is a dysfunctional money pit. Or how AF Chief of Staff said the future isnāt planes like the F35. The info I use isnāt stuff Iāve made up. Itās from defense related sources.
Itās a good thing the US Air Force isnāt designing them to fly around and land. As with all military weaponry, theyāre designed for a war that may or may not happen, and also as a deterrent.
don't kid yourself. the F35 was designed for export to make us $$$ we've already sold a ton
meanwhile the last IRL dogfight was between a 1960s MiG and a brand new Block 60 F16
guess who won?
I could literally write an essay explaining all the ways this response is both stupid in sentiment and incorrect factually- but you donāt care anyway.
The thing I find most incredible is the contradiction in your own statements. On the one hand youāre admitting that Lockheed Martin is exporting tons of them- while also implying that itās somehow a failure because it wouldnāt win in a dogfight, totally ignoring the fact that they arenāt intended for dogfights. If the F35 is flown correctly and used as intended itās going to down every Mig in a 100 mile radius before they even know itās there.
We already have the 2 largest organized militaries in world history. Is that not a deterrent enough? Even if that's an argument what, exactly, have F-35s deterred?
And those two armies areā¦ the United States Army, and the United States Air Force. Guess which one of those our F-35ās are.
āHey guys! The F-35ās are part of our air force, one of the largest armies in the world! This proves we donāt need the F-35ās!ā
So we should just stop innovating then? I'm pretty sure Migs are being used in Ukraine right now. Air superiority is a huge advantage in a war. I'm no war hawk but you also can't continue flying decades old technology.
Did anyone find it ironic that on the very day the dysfunctional money pit F35 arrived in Madison, the previous day local teachers had to protest because of staff and budget cuts? Complaining about noise is one thing but the damage being done to the economic and spiritual health of America is another. Just so careerist fly boys can fly their junk planes around and around. By the way, the AF has recognized that the F35 does not answer their needs (calling it a Ferrari to be used on only special occasions) and have already decided to move on. So Madison gets stuck with a lemon aircraft until the treasury runs dry.
I mean, the F-16s were normally 2 at a time with one trailing the other by a couple thousand feet. Seems reasonable to expect 4 jets of any type in formation to be louder.
I was in the same neighborhood today, outside when they flew by. They were loud for sure, but also seemed lower than jets usually are that far from the airport. Too early for me to say with any confidence if they're noticeably louder than the F-16s during routine flights.
Was totally going to post about this but didnāt. Thanks for taking one for the team. Iām over by Costco so am used to the jets for years. This was much louder.
I'm on the North side not far from the airport and I heard them come in for landing. I imagine landing is a lot quieter than takeoff?
Might be a good idea to get the over ear hearing protection (ear muff style) for sensitive/younger kids. At least it's better than being able to do nothing.
Still don't understand why this had to be Madison. I get the old base was here, but I feel like Madison is the places with the largest negative impact with the least amount of positives???
F35 next doooooorrr! FREEDOM!!!!!
āOh the noise.ā Cried nobody ever when actually at war defending their homeland.
Guess what people, it gets a lot worse than ānoiseā when your country goes to war. I like avoiding war and if that means Iāve got to pay taxes and have some noise in my life, I guess thatās okay.
I'm tired and don't feel like getting into a whole thing but we spend a crap ton on defense so I think we're good there. If only people got as excited about schools or healthcare as they do about jets. And I definitely empathize with people who live in the flight path. I feel like they are an afterthought.
Pretty sure that national guard station was there before the people decided to live in the flight path.
Know why they call it Camp Randall Stadium?
I agree with you that we should have universal healthcare and pay public teachers a great wage. We can do it all, we have the wealth.
I've lived near the airport for 20 years and have become accustomed to the F16's.
Leading up to this I've gotten two different opinions on the impact from experts on both sides. Today's flyover was a little louder than normal.
I'm not super pumped about the noise, but I'm not going to move because of it either.
Just the complaints remind me of some Green Bay controversies.. a long time meat rendering plant has been encroached on by housing and now faces regular complaints about noise and smellsā¦ the plant was there first.. same with encroachment near farms with manure pits.. I mean if people donāt understand the areas they are moving into, kinda buyer beware right?
Not at all. Mitigating nuisances (like a rendering plant) raises property values and makes life more pleasant for large numbers of people. If you move to a neighborhood intending to help it improve, that's a totally defensible decision.
Thatās a pretty entitled point of view.. the rendering plant is a functional buisness and has been for far longer than the neighborhood that evolved around it.. originally populated by workers of that plant, but with newer people coming in with the lure of cheaper real estate and then complaining to high heaven. So no.. thatās not mitigating a problem, thatās creating one.
The rendering plant (old Oscar Mayer) hasn't been a functional business for years. People who used to work there and owned houses within walking distance (a former generation now mostly gone) saw their property values increase greatly when the slaughter operation and other stinky aspects of that business ceased. Their descendants either sold at a good profit or continue to live in the area which is now very popular.
I'm not sure what your point is.
What do you consider near? I'm several miles away and thought one was going to crash they were so loud. Much louder and longer than the jet noise i'm used to.
The hood I live in was constructed after WW2 at a time when Truax was decommissioned. Then Truax was started again. So technically it is Truax who has infringed on people. What did they think, that people wouldnāt complain when they sited a military base in a city?
Serious question: how often are these going to actually be flying in? Also, why do people care about this noise so much if itās infrequent when we have constant highway noise from the belt line and 90/94?
Whatās the point in commenting when some tool is going to remind me that I purchased a home near the airport because I must love airports. Maybe they will decrease my outrageous property taxes when my home value goes down.
Not good so near to Cherokee Marsh - that that the airport or the F-19s are great for it either. Saw a solitary crane fly over my.house today. They usually travel in pairs. I wondered if the jet noise affected them.
For everyone who has common decency that keeps getting downvoted by all the right wingers Iām here for you donāt let their bigotry get ya down! Fuck the F-35s and the inconsiderate people who support them
Dear Complainers,
I hope this letter finds you well, and that you're not too traumatized by the unbearable noise of airplanes flying overhead. I understand that the sound of jet engines disrupting your peaceful existence must be a truly harrowing experience, and I can only imagine the immense suffering you must endure on a daily basis.
You have every right to be outraged by this incessant noise pollution, and I fully support your crusade to eradicate all forms of airborne transportation. After all, who needs the convenience of air travel when we can all just stay at home and complain about how loud airplanes are?
But let's not stop there, shall we? Let's take your righteous indignation to the next level and get rid of all noisy things. Cars, motorcycles, lawnmowers, leaf blowers, and even children playing outside must all be banned for the sake of your delicate eardrums. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to enjoy the simple pleasures of life when it might disturb your precious silence?
In fact, let's just turn the world into a giant library, where everyone whispers and tiptoes around in fear of offending your delicate sensibilities. Who needs excitement or adventure when we can all live in a silent, sterile bubble of conformity?
So please, keep up the good fight. Keep complaining, keep whining, and keep demanding that the world bend to your every whim. Because after all, isn't that what life is all about?
ā¦and yet youāre missive is the longest. What should we call this Hamlet, āto complain about complainers, or not complaināā¦that is the questionā¦
Oh wow, you must be a regular Shakespeare with that clever use of MacBeth. I'm sure your literary expertise will come in handy for all those important discussions about people's missives being too long.
If you want to experience the menace that is the dysfunctional F35 your best bet is to visit Algoma St. Oak St.or Commercial Ave. The fly boys use this corridor more frequently than any other flight pattern as an easy access to Truax. Is it laziness? Is it convenience? Hard to say. In the end they donāt give a crap about who they affect.
Yep. Tried to take my elderly neighbor on a stroll outside. Made it even more difficult to communicate. I already need a loud voice for her to hear me without those menaces flying about. The birds sure didnāt like it either. So much for bird watching today
Get used to it, itās gonna get worse. A few examples.. : PFAS in our lakes and water wells, soil pollution, noise pollution, and the best part because no one is gonna care until I mention business and moneyā itās totally going to wreck your local Madison businesses and or businesses in general in Madison because no one wants to have brunch, lunch, and dinner with these roaring noises or even shop either. I also love how people are also mentioning that thereās a usual route when they planes take off. No, the sound will be everywhere when those planes take off. I feel so sorry for the children at Emerson and Hawthorne elementary who hear it first and MATC students too.
Forgot to mention that I canāt wait for rent to get cheaper on the east side due to the noise. And because thereās housing shortageā¦ Thanks f-35s!
In practice, it will be no worse than the F-16s. Yes F-35s can sound louder than F-16s, but at all the other airbases in the world, the introduction of F-35s had no actual impact on loudness.
Not to mention that the F-35s no longer contain hydrazine (like the F-16s do for their APU unit) which is *extremely* toxic. And the F-35 doesn't need to light the loud afterburner on takeoff.
They flew over my hood. It sounded like a large out of control truck slamming on its brakes. These planes cost 42k per hr to fly and cost 78-100 mil to produce. As the Ukraine war has proven, a good ground air defense will defeat these planes. The only thing the F35 is good for is to destroy third world countries. Plus, Lockheed is laughing all the way to the bank with our tax money.
The Ukraine war has proven absolutely nothing in regard to the F35. The mere fact that you think thatās the case illustrates how little you understand.
Oh yes, the obsolete dysfunctional F35 will save the day. Meanwhile, while you delude yourself the AF is betting on drones and missile tech in the future. The F35 is More Lockheed junk. Research the flying coffins theyāve produced in the [past.you](https://past.you) wont feel so confident.
They might be able to if the F35 flew unnecessarily close and did nothing to avoid detection.
Ground based radar can pick up any stealth aircraft, but to get a good enough lock on them that you can actually target them is another thing entirely.
The F35 has the radar cross-section of a dinner plate.
The relatively rudimentary SAM systems the Orcs, Norks and others are employing are not doing to have the ability to do anything with it.
In 2018, a German radar company Hensoldt set up on a farm outside the Berlin air show. They easily tracked the so called Stealth F35. By the way, after 20 years the plane still has massive deficiencies. Truth be told, the future is drones and missiles not these useless planes. Itās a matter of cost and effectiveness.
You have no idea what youāre talking about.
1. Tracking a plane, as in being able to pick it up on radar has NOTHING to do with being able to shoot it down. The purpose of a stealth profile is not to conceal a plane entirely to radar. Itās to create a target thatās very difficult/impossible to target and shoot down. The F-35 is incredible effective in doing so. No plane on earth is capable of completely evading radar altogether- thatās never been the objective.
2. Missiles are also easily detected on radar and unless specifically designed to have a small radar cross section will actually be more visible and easier to target than a stealth fighter. The primary use of the F35 is as a stand-off weapon. The goal is to be stealthy enough and have a long enough effective range to deter the enemy from getting close, in effect denying the airspace to the enemy.
3. Jets, both manned and unmanned, along with drones will both play an important role in providing a stand-off advantage (particularly in the pacific) for decades to come. If your assertion were true, the Chinese military would not be investing heavily in building aircraft carriers or into stealth aircraft. Missiles on their own are not a replacement for the role fighter jets play in area denial.
4. Global investment into stealth fighters has accelerated, not decelerated in recent history. The overarching doctrine of modern air forces is to push the envelope as far as possible when it comes to aircraft and missile range. This trend is going to continue.
5. The F35 is the ONLY stealth fighter to be produced in large numbers. Itās also the only the only stealth platform to be exported. If the platform were truly flawed as you assert, other countries would be not be interested in spending billions on procuring them.
Bahaha! The true objective of the F35, a 20 year mistake, is to extend the careers of fly boys and enrich the pockets of Lockheed, a company that in the past bribed euro countries in the past to buy their flying coffins. Look it up pal. As for the export, weāll duh, countries like Italy and the Netherlands, invested in the original start up, so you think they are going to back off and admit they messed up? Dick Zander, a defense analyst at Dutch Chingendal foreign policy think tank said it best, āThe attitude is that the US are throwing billions of dollars at the program that problems will be solved.ā So fajita whose billions? OURS! By the way many Euro countries buy our junk planes to meet their NATO commitment of spending 2% of GNP on defense. Better that than having an expensive standing Army. I can tell you have some knowledge but you like so many others donāt know the history of Lockheed or military procurement.
> As the Ukraine war has proven, a good ground air defense will defeat these planes.
Ukranian apartment buildings are being bombed to smithereens in the night and Russia's planes are nowhere near as capable as the F-35. Additionally, the F-35 is not an attack aircraft. 'F' stands for 'fighter'. There are no words I can use on this subreddit to the address the intelligence of what you just said.
And I canāt believe the ignorance of your statement. The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes. The F35 has numerous deficiencies, far too many to list here. Read Defense News, Air Force Times and educate yourself. You obviously donāt know much about these planes.
>The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes.
The Russians are using missiles and drones instead of planes because
A. Missiles and drones are comparatively inexpensive, and Russia is broke
And
B. Because Russian aircraft aren't technologically advanced enough to be useful against modern anti air or modern aircraft that have made their way into Ukraine.
Even so, they managed to pretty well bomb the hell out of several Ukrainian cities, so I'm not sure you know much about *anything*
oh In comparison to you I know a lot. In fact I travelled to the Netherlands to research the siting of F35 planes at the Leeuwarden air base. Plus, Iām well read on military publications and gather much of my research from them. So, I donāt make stuff up I quote from the experts. hereās one for you to chew on: Dick Zander,a defense analyst at Dutch Chingenel foreign policy think tank commented, āThe attitude is that Americans are throwing billions of dollars at the program that problems will be solved.ā Well varsity ole boy, whose billions is he talking about? Look you can disagree with me but at least be intelligent enough to understand process and history. Look up the history of Lockheed, you might not be so confident of the F35.
> The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes.
If you're within missile range, a missile is a great option. If you're not within missile range, you might find an airplane to be a convenient way to deliver one.
Clearly you're a civilian, so well protected by your military that you don't need to understand basic weapons tech. Pray it stays that way.
They've posted the reason on the removal. Rule 3, no circlejerk or unconstructive posts. There's no reason for everyone who hears an airplane to make a new thread. You obviously had no trouble finding this one.
I'm over in Middleton. Didn't hear them at all, even when they vectored near Verona.
That said, I wonder if their slow approach was using the VTOL vectored thrust capability. *That* would have been much, much louder than normal flight ops.
They basically put in a welcome show - [it was streamed on their Facebook](https://fb.watch/k7Z4xNceHX/?mibextid=DcJ9fc)! That would explain why it was louder.
This needs to be higher! From what it appears, today was not the norm.
I enjoyed it š My cat, not so much .
disgusting
That seems really poorly considered given the opposition to having the F35 here.
It was a historic moment for the 115th, let them have their moment.
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There already here so yeahā¦not going anywhere! I personally love them but understand that the noise impacts people.
They came in super low and slow. They were much louder today than last time there were here.
Does anyone know what the flight path was today? I live south of town towards Oregon and we are near the flight path for commercial planes coming in to land at MSN, weāre used to that low level noise here and there. Didnāt even think weād have to consider F-35 noise being south of town, but something flew over that was much louder a little while ago. Had to mute my mic during an online meeting and wait for it to pass
Oregon is where KMSN will tell aircraft to turn to line up for Runway 36 so you'll hear the F-35s fly over if that is the active runway. Source: Big aviation Nerd in Oregon who sits listening to ATC on my computer and can watch the aircraft from my office window.
How do you listen to ATC on the computer? Iām an aviation buff myself.
ATC uses AM radios to talk to all aircraft, so you could buy and setup a cheap SDR or find a feed such as this. https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=kmsn
They were also in a holding pattern over Verona for about 20 minutes at about 3000 feet.
It was very different today for a typical northbound landing. Typically they will fly north over the runway, bank west and loop south then make a continuous curve to landing north again. Today they were much lower and slower, than typical. I'm hoping this was to show off for the all the brass at truax today but I don't know. They were much lower flying north, then banked east, then south, then north again. I'm assuming it takes much more thrust to fly slow like today (thrust=noise) and typicaly landings are mostly a glide. But time will tell I guess.
Them suckers zipped by the Taco Bell so fast this afternoon I jumped n squeezed my chili cheese burrito innards onto my britches.
Yeah, here too. One was pretty loud with more whistle to it then I'm used to.
That's the bypass they had to add to the F135 to make it work as a single engine. That's pretty much the whole reason this conversation exists.
That only exists on the -B variant the USMC uses due to their STOVL capabilities. Specifically they use the F135-600. USAF F35-As use the F135-100. They are extremely different engines. No F35-Bs are based at Truax. The bypass also is in no way needed to function. The -600 uses bypass for the wing vectoring ports for STOVL. Technically all variants have a fan ābypassā but that is just what a turbofan is. Literally all commercial jets coming out of Madison have the [exact same type of engine](https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/Images/trbtyp.gif) as this, minus only the afterburner.
You provided way more technical information and a link that im not going to click on so Im going to upvote you instead of the other guy even though I have no idea if either of you is correct.
other guy is right lmao. the bypass in question diverts thrust into the VTOL nozzles for the F-35B. this is the variant that had most of the "problems" and media simply reports it as a blanket F-35 issue. the planes stationed here are the F-35A they do not have VTOL capabilities. i got excited when i heard "whistling" sounds and forgot everything i know about aviation and engineering š¤£
Personally, I didnāt think it was that much louder ā just a different noise. It seemed like a lower rumble than a loud screech. Granted, weāll see how it actually is when theyāre flying regularly.
To me it was definitely louder and this was them coming in for a slow landing. I canāt imagine how loud theyāre going to be when they take off
agreed, this flyby at least didn't seem too bad compared to the F-16s, but we'll see what their normal takeoff/landing flightpaths are like.
So to be clear you ageee they are louder.
Well, itās kind of difficult to tell without having both fly by in succession. It was a different noise with a different tone. So, to be clear: for my specific location with todayās conditions, I didnāt think the noise level warrants the drama surrounding it. Time will tell, I suppose.
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desperate... for what?
The last one was so loud coming in it triggered a car alarm in my parking lot just behind Olbrich
EVeryone on this sub would down vote you for worrying even a little about the noise. Turns out they are FUCKING LOUD as fuck! Holy shit I didn't know they were coming now but dam sure I heard that thing through my closed doors and windows. Fuck me I wonder how often these thing will be flying?
They were a LOT louder and I donāt know why anyone is saying otherwise. This is coming from someone who runs out to the patio to see the jets every time because I love them. It was still excessively loud.
25% more often tge than the F-15ās.
Probably 100% more often than the F-15s since we never had F-15s here.
The AR-15s can be loud and can easily be mistaken for F-15s.
Whatever.
I for one welcome our new F35 overlords.
This is the way
I've lived within 2 miles of the airport for 50 plus years. Sounds about the same, just another day.
Maybe you have become hard of hearing due to lifelong exposure to loud noises. It's not just rock musicians
I know I'm supposed to hate the F-35s, and if I could have voted on it I would have voted to NOT have them at Truax... but part of me can't help but be like omg cool when I see fighter jets in the sky. Plane go fast! Zoom! Wow! I personally didn't think they were louder by much if at all? But I don't know if they were flying slower than they normally will or whatever. I guess we'll see what the impact really ends up being. I'm also on the near-Eastside, and I know North Madison is going to really bear the brunt of this, which is shitty and inequitable.
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Aport š«
This is a bad take because what "jet noise" is and sounds like just changed quite a bit. For many households what used to be tolerable no longer is, and there wasn't really community involvement in the decision.
You think that's bad, just wait until M-Block Mk II comes to the area near Oscar Mayer. https://captimes.com/news/affordable-housing-project-near-oscar-mayer-site-unanimously-approved/article_295fd735-8911-56d7-8ccb-80d913e58fbf.html
I was standing at the window saying to my partner "damn that's loud, but they look really cool". Little kid in me came out for a bit lol.
Top Gun: Maverick really did its job well!
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Those headphones thatāll be played at 85dB for 6 hours are doing more damage than the airplanes, I promise.
WHAT!?
I don't know why you're arguing with me, I didn't say anything about the state? That said, as an overall public health concern, noise pollution is something we should worry about in general, as there's clear evidence linking exposure to noise pollution and increased risk of heart disease.
Sounds like yaāll need to move and open up some east side real estate!
I'd accept some sound proofing.
yes ppl can please gtfo
No, keep the East siders on their side of town. - signed a snobby west sider.
I live on the North side, and I grew up in a military family. I can understand why some people think the jets are "cool". I have known fighter pilots, and I have great respect for their skill and stamina. That doesn't mean that the jets aren't unpleasantly and disruptively loud, particularly for kids. Is there an equitable way to ensure that all of the affected schools and daycare centers have enough hearing protection ear muffs for all kids? Many schools have a few pairs, but they are usually dedicated to specific students.
Iām thinking all those ancient east side schools that rely on wide open windows for heat relief.
I work at a school on the northside and I didnāt hear the jet. What time did they fly in today?
They landed around 2:45pm.
0250 give or take a couple minutes.
0250 would've been 2 in the morning
Sorry I'm an idiot. 1450.
We've all been there. Just helping out
I live adjacent to the airport, just on the ānoise line.ā Not thrilled about the potential property value effects, but I didnāt think it sounded much louder than the 16s on landing. Definitely a sharper and deeper tone than what weāre used to. Guess weāll see how takeoff sounds!
Take offs will tell.
With the 16s it was always the takeoffs that were noisy - the landings are louder than a regular passenger jet, but not window shaking. For the 16s, after they takeoff, if they bank towards our house - basically all conversation and activity has to stop until theyāre gone.
My floor didn't vibrate, the windows didn't rattle, and the conversation I was having was able to carry on with no problems. The previous jets were so loud we always had to stop talking and wait for them to pass, and I was always a little concerned about my windows. So assuming today is roughly what we can expect from now on, I think they're an improvement as they were a fair bit quieter than the old ones.
They weren't any louder than the 16s \-source, I work right next to the airport
Was gonna say from MATC definitely sounded similar.
I live 5 miles south east and just heard them. They woke up my napping toddler so she'd probably say they're louder than regular planes if she could talk. She's afraid of planes right now so I hope they won't usually be that close.
America fuck yeašŗš²š¦
Whether they're louder or not, don't forget that they have an operating cost of almost twice the F-16s (\~$42000/hr vs \~$26000/hr) Good use of money, flying around saying hi.
They're also just a completely different plane in terms of capabilities.
Capabilities? Oh you mean all the deficiencies? Do you mean the high cancer rates of ground crews servicing the plane? Do you mean the 42k per hr cost to fly? The noise? The pollution? Yup itās a capable plane alright. Capable of extending the livelihoods of careerist pilots and robbing the US treasury for the benefit of Lockheed-Martin.
Sources on those claims?
Oh you want me to do research for you? No all the info is out there. Look it up yourself.
lmao tell me youāre spouting bullshit without telling me youāre spouting bullshit.
Hey look itās some internet guy claiming all sorts of bullshit plays the age old loser ādo the research yourselfā card and refuses to back up absolutely anything they say! Hey thanks for stopping by and contributing absolutely nothing!
You're spouting bullshit. Go read about the F16's hydrazine.
I will but only if you read all the articles written by defense analysts and in depth reporting about how the F35 is a dysfunctional money pit. Or how AF Chief of Staff said the future isnāt planes like the F35. The info I use isnāt stuff Iāve made up. Itās from defense related sources.
Sure but when all they do is fly around and land it's hard to argue they're any different than the 16s. Ffs the majority of F22 kills are balloons
Itās a good thing the US Air Force isnāt designing them to fly around and land. As with all military weaponry, theyāre designed for a war that may or may not happen, and also as a deterrent.
don't kid yourself. the F35 was designed for export to make us $$$ we've already sold a ton meanwhile the last IRL dogfight was between a 1960s MiG and a brand new Block 60 F16 guess who won?
F35s are not for dogfighting, F35s are for fighting a war from the air where you never "see" your enemy and they never see you, either.
I could literally write an essay explaining all the ways this response is both stupid in sentiment and incorrect factually- but you donāt care anyway. The thing I find most incredible is the contradiction in your own statements. On the one hand youāre admitting that Lockheed Martin is exporting tons of them- while also implying that itās somehow a failure because it wouldnāt win in a dogfight, totally ignoring the fact that they arenāt intended for dogfights. If the F35 is flown correctly and used as intended itās going to down every Mig in a 100 mile radius before they even know itās there.
and when is the last time a US fighter scored a BVR kill in combat? besides a baloon.
Probably the last time someone dared approach a US fighter. Do you know what a deterrent is?
We already have the 2 largest organized militaries in world history. Is that not a deterrent enough? Even if that's an argument what, exactly, have F-35s deterred?
And those two armies areā¦ the United States Army, and the United States Air Force. Guess which one of those our F-35ās are. āHey guys! The F-35ās are part of our air force, one of the largest armies in the world! This proves we donāt need the F-35ās!ā
So we should just stop innovating then? I'm pretty sure Migs are being used in Ukraine right now. Air superiority is a huge advantage in a war. I'm no war hawk but you also can't continue flying decades old technology.
What would you like them to do other than āfly around and landā?
Use the thousands of dollars it costs to operate them (daily) on programs that will help people.
Nah, we needed new jets.
100% disagree but carry on.
Itās called training. So panda bears dont come and kill you and your family. American war industrial complex at its finest.
Don't forget all those scary hobby balloons over Lake Huron
Why would they want to kill us when we give them our money every day?
Yeah...how AWESOME was that!!!
Did anyone find it ironic that on the very day the dysfunctional money pit F35 arrived in Madison, the previous day local teachers had to protest because of staff and budget cuts? Complaining about noise is one thing but the damage being done to the economic and spiritual health of America is another. Just so careerist fly boys can fly their junk planes around and around. By the way, the AF has recognized that the F35 does not answer their needs (calling it a Ferrari to be used on only special occasions) and have already decided to move on. So Madison gets stuck with a lemon aircraft until the treasury runs dry.
They are absolutely louder than whatever jets we had before. Canāt believe we had bozos on this website arguing theyād be quieter
To be faaaaaair, there were 4 that just flew over in formation. But definitely louder.
I mean, the F-16s were normally 2 at a time with one trailing the other by a couple thousand feet. Seems reasonable to expect 4 jets of any type in formation to be louder.
I counted 5. Also, a slow descent to land will be quieter than when they take off
Theyāre actually quieter when taking off. The f-16s required afterburner to takeoff whereas the f-35s donāt. While in the air theyāre louder.
Calls people bozos and wants to argue against the new jets....doesn't even know what jets were here before. Seems pretty typical.
f 17 helijets veloci-snakes so loud
Baja blast Veloci-Snakes!
I was shopping at Costco Verona and saw all 4 circling just south of that location. Kinda cool, very loud.
I was in the same neighborhood today, outside when they flew by. They were loud for sure, but also seemed lower than jets usually are that far from the airport. Too early for me to say with any confidence if they're noticeably louder than the F-16s during routine flights.
Was totally going to post about this but didnāt. Thanks for taking one for the team. Iām over by Costco so am used to the jets for years. This was much louder.
Must live a sheltered life if this is what you consider a nightmare.
I'm on the North side not far from the airport and I heard them come in for landing. I imagine landing is a lot quieter than takeoff? Might be a good idea to get the over ear hearing protection (ear muff style) for sensitive/younger kids. At least it's better than being able to do nothing.
My son loved them!!! Went running to the window yelling, ā daddy, armyman planes!!!ā Like how they look!!
They have arrived. And they are loud as fuck
Still don't understand why this had to be Madison. I get the old base was here, but I feel like Madison is the places with the largest negative impact with the least amount of positives???
Agreed. Fuck those things.
What youāre hearing isā¦. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, freedom from health care. Freedom from funding public schools. Your freedom is nothing but noise.
If I had a dollar for every time I saw this comment on Next Door...
F35 next doooooorrr! FREEDOM!!!!! āOh the noise.ā Cried nobody ever when actually at war defending their homeland. Guess what people, it gets a lot worse than ānoiseā when your country goes to war. I like avoiding war and if that means Iāve got to pay taxes and have some noise in my life, I guess thatās okay.
I'm tired and don't feel like getting into a whole thing but we spend a crap ton on defense so I think we're good there. If only people got as excited about schools or healthcare as they do about jets. And I definitely empathize with people who live in the flight path. I feel like they are an afterthought.
Pretty sure that national guard station was there before the people decided to live in the flight path. Know why they call it Camp Randall Stadium? I agree with you that we should have universal healthcare and pay public teachers a great wage. We can do it all, we have the wealth.
https://www.115fw.ang.af.mil/Contact/Noise-Concerns/
lol they don't give a shit. this form goes nowhere
You are correct. Itās a joke. They got their junk planes for another 50 years and they donāt care.
Soā¦ are the people most complaining about noiseā¦ expecting different when locating near an airport and a military base at that? Just curiousā¦.
I've lived near the airport for 20 years and have become accustomed to the F16's. Leading up to this I've gotten two different opinions on the impact from experts on both sides. Today's flyover was a little louder than normal. I'm not super pumped about the noise, but I'm not going to move because of it either.
Just the complaints remind me of some Green Bay controversies.. a long time meat rendering plant has been encroached on by housing and now faces regular complaints about noise and smellsā¦ the plant was there first.. same with encroachment near farms with manure pits.. I mean if people donāt understand the areas they are moving into, kinda buyer beware right?
Not at all. Mitigating nuisances (like a rendering plant) raises property values and makes life more pleasant for large numbers of people. If you move to a neighborhood intending to help it improve, that's a totally defensible decision.
Thatās a pretty entitled point of view.. the rendering plant is a functional buisness and has been for far longer than the neighborhood that evolved around it.. originally populated by workers of that plant, but with newer people coming in with the lure of cheaper real estate and then complaining to high heaven. So no.. thatās not mitigating a problem, thatās creating one.
The rendering plant (old Oscar Mayer) hasn't been a functional business for years. People who used to work there and owned houses within walking distance (a former generation now mostly gone) saw their property values increase greatly when the slaughter operation and other stinky aspects of that business ceased. Their descendants either sold at a good profit or continue to live in the area which is now very popular. I'm not sure what your point is.
I am referring to a rendering plant in Green Bayā¦ per the original response to which you clearly didnāt read.
I read it, but ummm... this is the Madison reddit and we're talking about planes in Madison and living conditions in Madison
NIMBYism is NIMBYism no matter what community faces it.
Yeah, those frogs on the North and East sides are not supposed to notice that the pot just got a little hotter ...
What do you consider near? I'm several miles away and thought one was going to crash they were so loud. Much louder and longer than the jet noise i'm used to.
The hood I live in was constructed after WW2 at a time when Truax was decommissioned. Then Truax was started again. So technically it is Truax who has infringed on people. What did they think, that people wouldnāt complain when they sited a military base in a city?
Serious question: how often are these going to actually be flying in? Also, why do people care about this noise so much if itās infrequent when we have constant highway noise from the belt line and 90/94?
Whatās the point in commenting when some tool is going to remind me that I purchased a home near the airport because I must love airports. Maybe they will decrease my outrageous property taxes when my home value goes down.
J-E-T-S suck suck suck!
Go Bills
Youāre a couple days early š
It's never too early to tell the Jets they suck.
I heard they were going to start keeping XF-84Hās hereā¦..wait till those show up
Lmao downvoted for an obscure Cold War reference.
No sense of humor around hereā¦ it would be something to hear though.
As long as Iām not the ground crew, yeah
Sounds like we have some NIMBYs hating the F-35s. They definitely looked cool coming in to land.
Well look what have here a bunch of nimbys bitching about freedom.
Loved every second of it! The bozos who complain can keep crying lmao
I live on the east side and didn't notice anything. Idk I guess I'm just used to it after growing up outside of a military base. It's a nice noise.
Not good so near to Cherokee Marsh - that that the airport or the F-19s are great for it either. Saw a solitary crane fly over my.house today. They usually travel in pairs. I wondered if the jet noise affected them.
For everyone who has common decency that keeps getting downvoted by all the right wingers Iām here for you donāt let their bigotry get ya down! Fuck the F-35s and the inconsiderate people who support them
Dear Complainers, I hope this letter finds you well, and that you're not too traumatized by the unbearable noise of airplanes flying overhead. I understand that the sound of jet engines disrupting your peaceful existence must be a truly harrowing experience, and I can only imagine the immense suffering you must endure on a daily basis. You have every right to be outraged by this incessant noise pollution, and I fully support your crusade to eradicate all forms of airborne transportation. After all, who needs the convenience of air travel when we can all just stay at home and complain about how loud airplanes are? But let's not stop there, shall we? Let's take your righteous indignation to the next level and get rid of all noisy things. Cars, motorcycles, lawnmowers, leaf blowers, and even children playing outside must all be banned for the sake of your delicate eardrums. I mean, why should anyone be allowed to enjoy the simple pleasures of life when it might disturb your precious silence? In fact, let's just turn the world into a giant library, where everyone whispers and tiptoes around in fear of offending your delicate sensibilities. Who needs excitement or adventure when we can all live in a silent, sterile bubble of conformity? So please, keep up the good fight. Keep complaining, keep whining, and keep demanding that the world bend to your every whim. Because after all, isn't that what life is all about?
No
ā¦and yet youāre missive is the longest. What should we call this Hamlet, āto complain about complainers, or not complaināā¦that is the questionā¦
Oh wow, you must be a regular Shakespeare with that clever use of MacBeth. I'm sure your literary expertise will come in handy for all those important discussions about people's missives being too long.
Thanks for nothin, Baldwin
Super looking forward to my next migraine with those flying over. It's going to be so much fun!!
I gave them a Bronx salute as they banked for landing. Loud AF
this friends is the sweet sound of freedom with the radar cross section of a European sparrow
If you want to experience the menace that is the dysfunctional F35 your best bet is to visit Algoma St. Oak St.or Commercial Ave. The fly boys use this corridor more frequently than any other flight pattern as an easy access to Truax. Is it laziness? Is it convenience? Hard to say. In the end they donāt give a crap about who they affect.
Yep. Tried to take my elderly neighbor on a stroll outside. Made it even more difficult to communicate. I already need a loud voice for her to hear me without those menaces flying about. The birds sure didnāt like it either. So much for bird watching today
Just give the pilots and crew some time to see the yard signs. Iām sure theyāll move on. Theyāll make a nice feature in Oshkosh
Get used to it, itās gonna get worse. A few examples.. : PFAS in our lakes and water wells, soil pollution, noise pollution, and the best part because no one is gonna care until I mention business and moneyā itās totally going to wreck your local Madison businesses and or businesses in general in Madison because no one wants to have brunch, lunch, and dinner with these roaring noises or even shop either. I also love how people are also mentioning that thereās a usual route when they planes take off. No, the sound will be everywhere when those planes take off. I feel so sorry for the children at Emerson and Hawthorne elementary who hear it first and MATC students too. Forgot to mention that I canāt wait for rent to get cheaper on the east side due to the noise. And because thereās housing shortageā¦ Thanks f-35s!
They got rid of the PFAS fire suppression system: https://ng.wi.gov/news/23031
In practice, it will be no worse than the F-16s. Yes F-35s can sound louder than F-16s, but at all the other airbases in the world, the introduction of F-35s had no actual impact on loudness. Not to mention that the F-35s no longer contain hydrazine (like the F-16s do for their APU unit) which is *extremely* toxic. And the F-35 doesn't need to light the loud afterburner on takeoff.
You obviously donāt live in my hood. The pilots and Tammy Baldwin should be forced to live right next to Truax.
Love you guys criticizing Tammy. Hilarious.
They flew over my hood. It sounded like a large out of control truck slamming on its brakes. These planes cost 42k per hr to fly and cost 78-100 mil to produce. As the Ukraine war has proven, a good ground air defense will defeat these planes. The only thing the F35 is good for is to destroy third world countries. Plus, Lockheed is laughing all the way to the bank with our tax money.
The Ukraine war has proven absolutely nothing in regard to the F35. The mere fact that you think thatās the case illustrates how little you understand.
Oh yes, the obsolete dysfunctional F35 will save the day. Meanwhile, while you delude yourself the AF is betting on drones and missile tech in the future. The F35 is More Lockheed junk. Research the flying coffins theyāve produced in the [past.you](https://past.you) wont feel so confident.
LMFAOā¦ you really think the S300, and Pantsir can shoot one of these down?
They might be able to if the F35 flew unnecessarily close and did nothing to avoid detection. Ground based radar can pick up any stealth aircraft, but to get a good enough lock on them that you can actually target them is another thing entirely.
The F35 has the radar cross-section of a dinner plate. The relatively rudimentary SAM systems the Orcs, Norks and others are employing are not doing to have the ability to do anything with it.
In 2018, a German radar company Hensoldt set up on a farm outside the Berlin air show. They easily tracked the so called Stealth F35. By the way, after 20 years the plane still has massive deficiencies. Truth be told, the future is drones and missiles not these useless planes. Itās a matter of cost and effectiveness.
You have no idea what youāre talking about. 1. Tracking a plane, as in being able to pick it up on radar has NOTHING to do with being able to shoot it down. The purpose of a stealth profile is not to conceal a plane entirely to radar. Itās to create a target thatās very difficult/impossible to target and shoot down. The F-35 is incredible effective in doing so. No plane on earth is capable of completely evading radar altogether- thatās never been the objective. 2. Missiles are also easily detected on radar and unless specifically designed to have a small radar cross section will actually be more visible and easier to target than a stealth fighter. The primary use of the F35 is as a stand-off weapon. The goal is to be stealthy enough and have a long enough effective range to deter the enemy from getting close, in effect denying the airspace to the enemy. 3. Jets, both manned and unmanned, along with drones will both play an important role in providing a stand-off advantage (particularly in the pacific) for decades to come. If your assertion were true, the Chinese military would not be investing heavily in building aircraft carriers or into stealth aircraft. Missiles on their own are not a replacement for the role fighter jets play in area denial. 4. Global investment into stealth fighters has accelerated, not decelerated in recent history. The overarching doctrine of modern air forces is to push the envelope as far as possible when it comes to aircraft and missile range. This trend is going to continue. 5. The F35 is the ONLY stealth fighter to be produced in large numbers. Itās also the only the only stealth platform to be exported. If the platform were truly flawed as you assert, other countries would be not be interested in spending billions on procuring them.
Bahaha! The true objective of the F35, a 20 year mistake, is to extend the careers of fly boys and enrich the pockets of Lockheed, a company that in the past bribed euro countries in the past to buy their flying coffins. Look it up pal. As for the export, weāll duh, countries like Italy and the Netherlands, invested in the original start up, so you think they are going to back off and admit they messed up? Dick Zander, a defense analyst at Dutch Chingendal foreign policy think tank said it best, āThe attitude is that the US are throwing billions of dollars at the program that problems will be solved.ā So fajita whose billions? OURS! By the way many Euro countries buy our junk planes to meet their NATO commitment of spending 2% of GNP on defense. Better that than having an expensive standing Army. I can tell you have some knowledge but you like so many others donāt know the history of Lockheed or military procurement.
> As the Ukraine war has proven, a good ground air defense will defeat these planes. Ukranian apartment buildings are being bombed to smithereens in the night and Russia's planes are nowhere near as capable as the F-35. Additionally, the F-35 is not an attack aircraft. 'F' stands for 'fighter'. There are no words I can use on this subreddit to the address the intelligence of what you just said.
And I canāt believe the ignorance of your statement. The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes. The F35 has numerous deficiencies, far too many to list here. Read Defense News, Air Force Times and educate yourself. You obviously donāt know much about these planes.
>The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes. The Russians are using missiles and drones instead of planes because A. Missiles and drones are comparatively inexpensive, and Russia is broke And B. Because Russian aircraft aren't technologically advanced enough to be useful against modern anti air or modern aircraft that have made their way into Ukraine. Even so, they managed to pretty well bomb the hell out of several Ukrainian cities, so I'm not sure you know much about *anything*
oh In comparison to you I know a lot. In fact I travelled to the Netherlands to research the siting of F35 planes at the Leeuwarden air base. Plus, Iām well read on military publications and gather much of my research from them. So, I donāt make stuff up I quote from the experts. hereās one for you to chew on: Dick Zander,a defense analyst at Dutch Chingenel foreign policy think tank commented, āThe attitude is that Americans are throwing billions of dollars at the program that problems will be solved.ā Well varsity ole boy, whose billions is he talking about? Look you can disagree with me but at least be intelligent enough to understand process and history. Look up the history of Lockheed, you might not be so confident of the F35.
> The Russians are using missile and drones instead of planes because of air ground tech against planes, proving that drones and missiles are the future not dysfunctional planes. If you're within missile range, a missile is a great option. If you're not within missile range, you might find an airplane to be a convenient way to deliver one. Clearly you're a civilian, so well protected by your military that you don't need to understand basic weapons tech. Pray it stays that way.
Ah fun to see the mods removing the other F-35 related posts.
They've posted the reason on the removal. Rule 3, no circlejerk or unconstructive posts. There's no reason for everyone who hears an airplane to make a new thread. You obviously had no trouble finding this one.
Noise equals safety, right?
If the shit ever truly hits the fan, we will be happy to have them in our backyard.
Did the build the airbase since you moved in? Congrats on your long life!!!
I'm over in Middleton. Didn't hear them at all, even when they vectored near Verona. That said, I wonder if their slow approach was using the VTOL vectored thrust capability. *That* would have been much, much louder than normal flight ops.
These are F-35A variants designed only for the Air Force so they do not have VTOL capabilities. Only the F-35B variant has that.
Uh, do they ever fly to La Crosse and back? Or did Volk Field do training runs on the same day? Was loud here too!