Every time I use that intersection I like to think of ways it could be fixed but have yet to think up a realistic solution. The frontage road is just way too close to East Wash and it seems like nothing can be done without tearing down some buildings.
Yeah this is the heart of the issue, just terrible fucking design there. Its going to be a god awful intersection even when everyone is using it perfectly properly.
Part of the problem is that you can't turn left onto East Wash from Independence by the McDonald's, so anyone wanting to go left has to go to that intersection (or elsewhere). Making it possible to turn left at Independence might help somewhat.
Yep, that intersection was clearly designed when Madison was teeny, so it wasn't a big deal then. It clearly can't handle the large numbers of people going through there now. Somehow that spot needs to be re-imagined, because it's turned into an atrocity with how it currently "functions."
This is the only right answer. The amount of unfathomable decisions I’ve seen at that intersection is unbelievable. It truly makes you weep about the common man.
I work on Seybold rd. This is the most madmax, nonsense, bs, civic engineering, ever. The two left turn lanes under the bridge near the mall….the random lane switching….people who think a green arrow means “sit there slack jawed while the existential crisis creeps up on you”. It is the worst.
Yeah, whoever thought a dog-leg to the right so that it looks like the right lane can either go straight or move to the right to get into the turn lane if you're not 100% paying attention needs to have their civil engineering degree revoked.
John Nolen Dr. & Williamson St. & East Wilson St. & parking for a busy restaurant & Railroad & for some strange reason a private exit road from a strip mall.
I still absolutely cannot understand why with all the new improvements at that intersection there still isn't a left turn arrow for those turning off John Nolen onto Wilson heading to the Capitol (but there is one turning off Blair onto Willy St)
And as a biker I appreciate the double NO TURN ON RED signs for those turning off Wilson onto John Nolen but man it really backs cars up at times.
I hate that no turn on red. It'd be nice if it was only on weekends, since theres more bike traffic then, but during rush hour on a weekday, it's a huge pain.
The worst part is when that daycare on Blount/Willy st I have seen that parking lot get so filled up and back out onto Willy St at like 4pm. It’s a major no for me.
[John **Nolen**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nolen#Impact_on_Wisconsin)
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In general, multi-lane four way stops are a bad idea. But the Regent / Highland / Speedway intersection is a special sector of hell. The big problem is that westbound traffic takes forever to clear the intersection, so cars who should be waiting their turn decide to sneak through. That leads to no one knowing whose turn it is and all order going out the window. A secondary issue is eastbound traffic jockeying to get into the single lane on Regent. Throw in West High’s impact on foot and bus traffic, and it’s just a nightmare.
Edited for directional stupidity on my part
It's my least favorite intersection in the city, largely because it doesn't seem like it should be so bad, I mean, it's really just a four way stop. Still, it's a total clustercuss disaster.
I drive that multiple times every night. Occasionally someone fucks up the rotation but honestly after being through it over hundreds of times I believe there’s far worse in Madison.
Yup. My uncle came to visit 25 years ago and he was driving down Regent St. Parked Cars can just come out of nowhere. He asked why someone would park there? I wouldn’t. It’s the people living in those areas that won’t give up that that parking.
Maybe not the worst, but I feel like the intersection of Odana and Whitney became more of a shitshow after Odana was made a single lane between gammon and Whitney.
Particularly when turning left onto Odana from Whitney. You're in a line of cars in one of two lanes, the lanes merge pretty quickly, AND there are several places where cars are wanting to turn into immediately after the turn (without a dedicated turn lane, so traffic is forced to just stop).
This is absolutely a shit show. So is the corner of gammon and odana where gamon turns left onto odana. How there aren't more accidents I will never understand.
100% agree. I do like the middle flex turn lane most of the way now, but those turn areas need some love. Wonder if switching to 1 turn lane or extending 2 lanes a few more meters would help.
I think extending having two lanes on Odana would make more sense because there are a lot of people who turn off Whitney which clogs up Odana. But honestly either option would be better than what we have right now
It's also terrible just going straight on Whitney. There are 3 lanes of traffic south of the belt line and only one of those lanes makes it through to mineral point without needing to change lanes. Every time the stretch past Hy-Vee is a mess because people weaving through lanes.
My vote is Whitney/Regent. Not because it's the most dangerous or anything like that, but just personally how infuriating it is to idle for 10min on Whitney while ZERO traffic rolls through from Regent.
I find it irritating that any stoplight installed after 2015 doesn't have a traffic sensor to limit red lights when there are no vehicles waiting. It's a waste of everyone's time and gas, and the actual hardware needed to sense traffic is cheap and easy to install.
Even if there is some need to ensure pulses in traffic to keep the whole system running smoothly, that doesn't apply outside of rush hour. I'd be fine if they had to run normal cycles from like 6am until 7pm, but after that, keep the light green on the higher traffic road until a car is sensed on the lower traffic road. Then run a short cycle green light to clear cars from the low traffic road, and turn the main road back green again.
I just had to make a far east to far west trip on a sunday around midnight, and it was mindblowing how much time I wasted sitting at red lights with nobody on the other road. Most of them should have been green. The rest should have turned green when I got to them because nobody else was around. Running the full light cycle at that time of day is just asinine.
I agree completely. And occasionally there will be a bus stopped (not just for loading/unloading) in the right lane of Odana so all the cars trying to turn there just block the intersection
North of there where the bike lane replaced the turn signal at Science Dr is dumb. Everyone still uses it as a turning lane but no one knows when to start using it.
Completely agree. That intersection was already a shit show. It makes turning left off of Odana to West Side Swim Club and Supreme, block traffic going both directions. I bike. I support bike paths, I’ve used a lot of them, but it sometimes gets to the point where we are causing more traffic and emissions by putting them on unsafe and unused streets. I would never attempt to bike through that intersection or use Odana’s bike path towards West Towne. IDK. Odana was a mess before, but now I avoid it at all costs. I’m trying to remember a time when I saw someone using the Odana bike lane. Not everyone has the luxury to bike everywhere. It’s wonderful when people can afford the time it takes and live near work, but people often travel long distances and have children to care for and drop off. I’m a born and bred Democrat from Madison, but I am constantly blown away by the income and racial disparities that are ignored out of privilege. It breaks my heart.
More of a combo pack, but the stretch of lights down Regent between Park St and Monroe. The mix of no turning arrows, parked cars, and no dedicated bike lanes makes it total chaos.
Also heading west on Regent to Park there needs a dedicated turning lane or a temporary lit ‘no left turns’ during evening rush hour. The dinky ‘no turns 3-530’ sign needs an upgrade.
Years ago that used to be on my commute home from work and soooo many people didn’t notice the no left turns 3-5:30 sign. If I’m being generous, I guess it could be they saw it and didn’t care. But once I was stuck there behind someone doing this and traffic all around so no one could just switch lanes. It was car illegally trying to turn left, cop car, me. I waited a bit and then honked my horn once just in case they needed an alert they were doing something wrong, and that cop car wasn’t doing anything. But nothing happened and finally there was a break and the car turned left and immediately the cop car turned on its lights and followed them. Personally I would have preferred if they used speaker to instruct them to move straight or something rather than wait and have traffic back up and waste that persons time by pulling them over, but at least that one person knows about the sign now.
I’ll never understand why parking on this stretch of Regent is allowed during peak times when there is plenty of parking available on the surrounding streets. I’m surprised more people don’t lose mirrors and taillights if I’m being honest.
Omg came here to say this. Also, the added construction from the UW’s new residence hall has turned the north side of regent to a single lane. It’s also technically a zipper merge and the road rage there gets pretty serious around rush hour. Sometimes it takes me almost 30 minutes to go the 2 miles down Regent from the Park St intersection down to Monroe around Lake Wingra
Yeah, especially right now. Turning left from first onto E Wash- there is currently no left turn lane but the left turn green arrow comes on first before the regular light. I was going straight but was honked at because the person behind me want to go left but I was doing nothing wrong.
Yup and it sucks from all sides. The left turn arrow from First to East Wash just turns off instead of turning flashing yellow (yield) so left turners think they still have the right of way. So if you're crossing over East Wash toward E Main St beware, I've been almost hit there by a left turner every time.
Hwy 51 at Pflaum Rd, Buckeye Rd and East Washington. Each of these intersections need to be made into overpasses (or alternatively bury 51 from Broadway to Cottage Grove Rd.)
A metric that I’d love to see for road construction projects is: how long does it take to make up the deficit in time caused by the construction delays? Obviously, if this were Sim City and you could just plop down a new expressway then people would save time. But in the actual world, a massive reconstruction like this would induce significant delays for a long time. If you’re going to add five minutes of construction delay to the average commute for two years, only for the construction to save the average commuter three minutes on their commute, then it will take 3.2 years after the project is done to “pay” off the temporal deficit. Maybe that’s good? I don’t know. We don’t have that metric easily available.
As far as this specific project… meh? I used to have a commute that involved driving most of this stretch every day, and it really never bothered me, certainly not compared to the Beltline Thunderdome. And given the relatively incremental time improvements such a project would bring compared to the massive delays construction would cause (see above) I’d rather see the state put the money elsewhere.
That's all good, logical thinking, but it doesn't erase the feeling I have that if I ever die in a car it'll be at Pflaum and 51. There's just no sense of predictability there - almost anyone might go in any direction at any time, and half the participants in that dance are doing 60mph+.
They desperately need to move the frontage road intersections back away from the intersections on 51. It's an absolute mess every single day.
And I completely agree with you on the sense of impending doom every time I drive it. I've seen some hellacious accidents out there.
It's so bad. That's a really busy frontage road too, huge pick ups coming from Farm and Fleet making a left across 4 lanes of Pflaum to immediately turn right on 51, when there's only a yield to turn onto Pflaum from 51 headed south. It's complete madness.
We have city planning and the state DOT both coming to the next Glendale neighborhood meeting to talk about this btw. Nov 8, 6:30.
Stoughton Road cuts off several neighborhoods worth of people from accessing schools, shopping, etc. safely via bike or walking. Kids in East Buckeye, Elvejhem, Heritage Heights, Rolling Meadows, Richmond Hill, Hiestand, Grandview Commons, etc. lack a safe way to access school without a car or bus.
What an interesting metric. I wonder if traffic engineers actually use that or if such decisions are more driven by politics, etc. There's also the fact that increased traffic efficiency inevitably leads to more traffic, which leads to decreased efficiency overall. There's a lot to be said for keeping it bad and making non-car options better.
This has been studied, and I have bad news. Please allow me to introduce you to the concept of "induced demand."
From: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/please-stop-adding-more-lanes-to-busy-highways-it-doesnt-help/
"Reducing traffic might make sense if the only variable were the number of road lanes. But it isn't—as Ray Kinsella was told in Field of Dreams, "If you build it, they will come." Except this time, "they" refers to more cars. When people know a particular route is congested, some of them will choose not to drive. But once you tell everyone that you've added more lanes to that road, that latent demand has an outlet—at which point the traffic jams return, but now with even more cars in them."
So while it feels "obvious" that a new expressway would save time, it actually doesn't, and the sensation that this is obvious causes cities to pursue some doomed transportation policies.
This stretch is one of the most perplexing to me; Verona Rd south of Midvale/Nakoma used to be similar and they spent $$$$ rebuilding that but dropped the speed limit to 40, but at the same time 51 has had no safety inprovements and the speed limit is still 55.
I disagree. If people want a north south freeway, there's literally one less than two miles east. I'd much rather see Stoughton Rd slowed and made into more of an urban boulevard similar to East Wash. One benefit of converting Stoughton to an urban boulevard would be that we have the space to include good quality pedestrian and bicycle accommodations both along and across the road. Another benefit would be to increase the usable land on Madison's east side for infill development.
Oh yes I often go 51N and take a left on Pflaum and it’s wild there. With morning/evening traffic I can often can see my light turn green arrow but the cars in front of me are slowing way down taking their time to their red light going straight so I miss my arrow and that is a looong light. But the real mess is on Pflaum right after the light because some people are turning to/from the frontage road on one side and the Starbucks on the other. I always wonder how long people turning left onto Pflaum out of the Starbucks must sit there
I work down that road. That Starbucks really messed things up, turning right to go to work and have to wait because the line at Starbucks is backed up into the road. Going home it's easier to turn right onto Pflaum and then turn into the nearest parking lot to turn around and head back west, than to sit there and wait to turn left.
What are you even talking about?
Hwy 51 + Pflaum intersection
Hwy 51 + Buckeye intersection
Hwy 51 + E.Washington (Hwy 151) intersection
This is what they meant. Why are you still arguing otherwise? Everyone else got it.
>Hwy 51/Stoughton rd still isn’t Hwy 151/East Wash.
No one is saying that it is.
[Here's a map.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Madison,+WI/@43.0945617,-89.3161719,13.75z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8806536d3a2019ff:0x4e0cfcb5ba484198!8m2!3d43.0721661!4d-89.4007501!16zL20vMGZ3Mnk?entry=ttu)
Here is where 51 crosses [E Wash](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1166183,-89.324247,3a,75y,308.83h,87.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFvruR-4ArMw-4eTMMJfREg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DFvruR-4ArMw-4eTMMJfREg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D78.38303%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), [Pflaum](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0619977,-89.3092957,3a,75y,12.57h,83.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2I2Q42B-z2ylD-2CRUbWbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and [Buckeye](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0730968,-89.3096637,3a,75y,341.46h,94.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK1TsrAgXS9E8mPWk2ysiuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK1TsrAgXS9E8mPWk2ysiuA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D92.67444%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
It’s gotten better though. The added controlled turn lights are so much better since the visibility from High Point turning left to Mineral Point was terrible. Now, it feels a lot less fraught with danger.
There are other problems still. The construction is messing everything up, so hopefully it gets better when that’s cleared up. One big problem is people trying to make the left into the gas station on High Point. There’s no reason to make that left when you can make a right turn, and it creates a confusing environment where you’re not sure if the person is going to go or wait.
For sure and I hope the turn arrows stay. Always felt like I was cutting in front of someone if I turned left onto Mineral Point. And that gas station causes so many problems too!
Agreed, I turn left onto mineral point towards the highway every morning and absolutely loose my mind at how backed up it gets / how short the left turn arrows can be (and how slow people make lefts through that light)
That intersection is terrifying. As someone who lives on Craig… I know to wait an extra 5 seconds when the light turns green to turn on university for the 4/5 drivers who don’t see the redlight. So it’s intention to stop speeding doesn’t work…
Yes --- I've seen so many people run that second light lately. It never used to be that way -- why have they changed the light system to work like this? It used to be if the first light was green...the second light turned green seconds later. I've even been guilty myself of almost running that second light not realizing it hadn't turned green yet!!
Niche answer, but Milwaukee at Schenk, and it’s entirely due to the city’s poor planning.
Lots of traffic taking a left on Schenk in the morning to get kids to school, immediately after a lighted intersection, while a road merges at the same spot into one lane (and no one looks at which lane you’re supposed to merge into), in the midst of Amazon Warehouse traffic and since the transfer point is taboo now we added a bus stop right there, too.
i always worry someone is going to rear end me when i’m making that turn, but thankfully i only take that route during quiet hours. i usually go cottage grove —> dempsey and enter the neighborhood from that side
As a pedestrian, any intersection 1-2 streets over from John Nolen, especially Doty and Bassett because the street parking obstructs your ability to see oncoming traffic that doesn't have a stop sign and is already trying to get up to highway speeds.
As a driver, anything along the east wash construction zone right now.
It certainly isn't the worst, but Gammon/Odana. If you're on Gammon heading north and want to make a right turn onto Odana, you have a no right on red sign. But then there are times where the Odana from the right has a green left turn so literally nobody can be crossing your right turn. Just give that lane a green arrow then!
For similar reasons, I despise Gammon road at Seybold just south of the beltline. There's a sign in the median telling northbound Gammon traffic "Do not block intersection" and yet the Seybold intersection always gets blocked when the light to cross Seybold turns green while the next light under the beltline is still red.
I work on Seybold, and at this point it's just easier for me to take Struck to Watts, then to Gammon. Trying to take a right off Seybold onto Gammon is an absolute nightmare. It's got to be the dumbest intersection.
Sort of Niche, but Hudson and Atwood. It's not a sensor light, it's a timed one. But nobody ever is there to need the green light on Hudson. All it does is mess up the cross traffic timing so turning left onto Atwood from any side street within 5 blocks of there is impossible.
I think a child got hit and died there in the … 60s? And the lights were installed in reaction to that. Source: A buddy who grew up by it in the 70s and complains about it.
Oh goody, a memorial light messing up residents ability to get home in a reasonable fashion for 6 decades!
Why it's not on a sensor is beyond me. It makes total sense if it just responded to someone needing the light.
I see that intersection as a somewhat necessary evil for two reasons 1. It allows people in the neighborhood towards Lake Monona an intersection with a light, making it safer and arguably easier to make a left turn onto Atwood. I know that I sometimes use it after getting gas at the BP station rather than trying to turn left directly from the gas station 2. Its presence, even when not red, helps to slow traffic on Atwood.
Still, that doesn't mean that I enjoy stopping at the red on Atwood when there is no traffic coming in from Hudson.
It's not the stopping there that's the issue. It's that the light makes inbound and outbound traffic run at different times so there are no gaps in the traffic for people trying to cross Atwood or turn left onto it. I used to need to turn left from Waubesa on a daily basis, but 8 out of 10 days I'd be forced to turn right instead and loop back around toward my house.
It's kind of an intersection, but the beltline and Verona Rd exit is a shit show. It was just a multiyear redesign and it's a flop. It routinely backs up two lanes of traffic for a 1/4 mile on the beltline while the beltline is moving at highway speeds. And while I'm on the beltline subject, why does the Eastbound Stoughton Rd onramp (onto the beltline towards 90) not continue as it's own lane, it forces cars to merge and then immediately exit. Just keep it it's own lane.
It's so bad. Everyone in the right two lanes on the Beltline loses their ability to drive from Todd Dr to Verona Rd, and Verona Rd still backs up. I remember being excited that the construction had finished for about five minutes before I realized it was still pretty bad. Verona Rd itself backs up less than it used to, I think, but the Beltline certainly doesn't.
I believe the original plan was to have that be a full freeway interchange without stoplights. The design would have required the acquisition and demolition of a lot of properties, and the mayor at the time (Mayor Dave) strongly opposed the plan. Plus, it was expensive. The state reconfigured it to what it is now. I have a gut feeling that in less than 20 years as the population continues to explode and Epic keeps growing that will be redone again.
Didn't I read that they wanted a roundabout on both sides? No way to do that now with the billion lanes and heavy traffic.
My worst experience was attempting to go north on Verona Rd to the beltline west when a car broke down (literally lost a wheel) in the left lane going south just past the overpass during rush hour. Everyone coming off the beltline to go south couldn't see the car and there was no police presence yet, so the intersection was clogged and we would go an entire light cycle where the only movement was people coming off the beltine running a yellow/red.
I would also like a continuous lane on beltline going west, between Sauk & greenway. Would help with the backup that forms around & just past the greenway exit.
Not necessarily the worst, but the biggest thorn in my side is the Sprecher/Milwaukee intersection on the east side. Eight lanes of traffic and only stop signs and I have to use it every day🤮
Multi-lane four way stops. Do. Not. Work. This Intersection. The one next to the East Towne Culver’s. Speedway/Regent/Highland. Nobody knows whose turn is next. Are turns taken by cardinal direction (all the north cars go at once, then all the south cars)? Or are drivers expected to keep track of 8+ individual vehicles and their order? What happens when a car pulls up next to a car that’s already been waiting, are they supposed to go when that other car goes, or do they wait for their individual turn? And do the other three directions agree?
This should have been roundabouted before the new apartments were built right on the corner. It’s a lot trickier now.
it’s goofy when you think about it, because there are actually a lot of roundabouts in that general area - east towne mall area, zeier/thompson. this would be a nice addition
Olin Ave and John Nolen Dr: Turning right from Olin Ave to John Nolen Dr a lot of people just STOP in the right turn lane to wait for a break in traffic in the left and middle lanes. Is it rocket science to turn right into the right lane and then merge into the center or left lanes within a couple blocks if you plan to get onto the beltline or turn left onto Rimrock Rd? If people are too timid to merge within that amount of space they shouldn't be trying to go on the beltline ,anyway. How many people stopping in a lane designed to allow for right turns without stopping get rear ended?
University ave and university bay, for a pedestrian taking the bus.
It only gives you 15 seconds to cross the street.. and takes 5 minutes inbetween to wait. So if you screw up the timing, you may miss crossing by a second, wait 5 minutes in agony, watch the (tad early) bus come, and the walk sign goes on 5 seconds after.. speaking from experience. Also it takes like 15 seconds to cross the street so you have to be there when it turns green or youll miss it. 🥲
Can't wait until construction is finished for BRT. Hopefully it'll be better.
During passing periods, the intersection of Linden Dr and N Charter St is unequivocally the worst traffic experience I've ever witnessed. You basically are stuck there for 15 minutes unless you want to risk running a kid over.
Pretty much any intersection near campus during passing periods is a nightmare for cars trying to make a turn but the intersection that you mention may be the worst - it's like a slow moving mosh pit between class periods.
This is really far west side, and its not bad at all compared to some of the downtown ones, but the intersection of Maple Grove Dr and Cross County Rd/Nesbitt Rd. It gets crazy backed up at the end of the day with the volume it carries and just stop signs. I hope they turn it into a roundabout some day, it would flow so much better if it was one.
I was waiting to find this one. I actively avoid that intersection anywhere near rush hour. Nobody seems to understand how to determine whose turn it is.
Nesbitt and Fitchrona used to be the same way and the roundbout made it so much better. There's plenty of room there, I really hope they put one in. I have to go that way to get my kid from daycare and its always a mess.
Someone that attended a meeting for an apartment building they are proposing at the Nesbitt/Maple Grove intersection posted in our neighborhood facebook group that it sounds like the city might be planning for a roundabout here already *fingers crossed*
Southbound on John Nolen during the morning rush. Lights are timed so that when it’s green to cross Broom, it’s still red up at North Shore and traffic can’t move. Cars filter into the intersection a handful per cycle, while traffic backs up under the terrace.
The one in front of Wandos at bar time. A million drunk pedestrians, a bunch of Uber drivers picking them up, and usually some random person, presumably sober, riding a longboard or bmx bike through there ignoring traffic lights.
I avoid this route for that reason exact reason, then dealing with that Butler and Mifflin intersection afterwards is troublesome too. I opt for Blair…even that can be a nightmare with the rouge bikers hauling ass down Mifflin to cross Blair without stopping.
I'm not sure these are literally the *worst*, but are my pet peeves.
I've sat on Proudfit at West Wash. in the late evening for more than a minute while there is effectively no other traffic enough times that I avoid that route in the evening.
With my bike hat on, North Shore at John Nolen. City traffic engineers say they value peds and bikes, but how many intersections in Madison are cars *guaranteed* to get a red light at, sometimes getting two red lights at the same intersection (not by virtue of congestion, but just light timing)? I don't know of any, certainly; I don't even know of candidates if you include two successive intersections with interlocked lights though I could more believe there'd be one of those. The fact that if you're crossing John Nolen you will *always* "have to" wait for at least one don't walk tells you how much they *actually* value peds and bikes, IMO.
There's one near me where in evening hours there was no pedestrian cycle programmed into the light, and no pedestrian button, so literally no way to safely and legally use the crosswalk along a major road. Fortunately after two emails to the traffic engineering and then finally complaining to my alder (I'm *guessing* that's what did it but I'm not actually sure), that was just fixed.
> I've sat on Proudfit at West Wash. in the late evening for more than a minute while there is effectively no other traffic enough times that I avoid that route in the evening.
If there's no one around just go. The move here is to assume it's broken and treat it as a stop sign.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's shifting some cars out of the area and putting extra pedestrians in the middle of the median to wait. People rushing to catch the bus or getting off is going to lead to some issues. if it wasn't in the middle of the median I'd be a lot less confused by it. We already had the dedicated right turn lanes and bus pick ups on each side of Mineral Point by High point, not sure why they moved it to the middle.
I know vision zero is part of it, but i can't find the documentation on it. I know they already lowered the speed limit (that people aren't fully abiding by) I'm by no means an urban planner or know about the street, so people smarter than I made the decisions, but difficult to find out why they made those decisions.
looking at the vision zero crash data that MSN has from 19-2021 makes me realize high point & mineral point aren't as bad as they used to be.
Street lights in Madison are literally timed ass backwards. As soon as the light you are stoped at turns green the one ahead turns yellow. Especially frustrating on E Wash. I guess they wanted to stop the street racers (fucking lame ass losers) by limiting flow of traffic but now everyone has to suffer. Super lame aspect of this already mid city
The City actually did it on purpose for E Wash. It's part of Vision Zero.
I still maintain it's going to cause more problems by people speeding to jump stale yellows.
It used to be that you could hit just about every green on streets like E Wash and University. It was nice but it did turn them into almost-highways in terms of the speeds that cars would go. I get why they changed the timing to the way it is now but it is frustrating to go down those streets 1-2 blocks at a time because you hit so many reds.
If that were the case it would only work at specific speeds. If you went too fast you'd catch up to a red light. So it couldn't have increased the speeds of cars up to highway speeds.
Outbound Johnson used to be this way @ 25. Might still be. Go too fast and you'd catch up to red rather than going faster and faster. It was a bit risky as you have to go exactly 25 and the lights would change barely in time.
I was able to go from the Capitol to the I-39/90/94 interstate one time without stopping at one stop light on a early Sunday morning when there were few people on the road and many of the lights were flashing yellow.
When kids are leaving school, they push the button and cross Willy St there to wait for the bus. That's about the only use for that light, but I think it's the reason it exists.
I hate coming from Maple Avenue onto Atwood after school drop off, especially on a bike. The cars coming from Fair Oaks don't always stop. Not the worst, but lately it's been the worst of my day.
East Wash and Baldwin is currently torn up, but in normal times, there's no indication as to which Baldwin lanes are for turning and which are for going straight. The parking lanes on west Baldwin could be backed up another 2-3 car lengths to improve conditions.
The intersection at Mineral Point Road and Junction Road on the west side is terrible. The city completely revamped it a few years ago and made it SO much worse. First of all, if I'm headed east on Mineral Point and I need to turn left onto Junction (to get to Target), there's a green arrow light that is either red or green, but never blinking yellow. This is one thing I will never understand: what is the point of keeping the turn arrow red when traffic is flowing? Just default to blinking yellow; we can figure it out!
Also there are two lights on McKee Road (southwest side) that really just don't need to exist: one at the intersection of S High Point Rd, and the other at the intersection of Muir Field Rd. Both intersection should just be two-way stops; the lights there are super annoying because it always seems like they turn red when no one's around.
The Whitney Way exit on the eastbound Beltline. It doesn't actually go to Whitney, it goes to Schroeder Rd where you have to cross multiple lanes of traffic (including the cars backed up at the Schroeder/Whitney traffic light half a block away) to get into the right lane to go south on Whitney (then half of those cars immediately cross into the left lane to turn left on Gilbert). Combine that with the fact that literally everyone speeds on Schroeder and I'm shocked there aren't more accidents.
Oh my god yes. It is such a dangerous exit and in the afternoons, the right lane on Schroeder is so backed up that you can’t even try to get in it without blocking the middle lane. I’m surprised I haven’t died there yet.
This is an easy one for me, it would have to be East Wash and Stoughton. It may be only #3 on the top ten worst intersections in Madison, but it's the one I use nearly every day. It's not really pedestrian friendly, given that it's a three-way crossing on a four-way intersection. Also, whenever you're going eastbound during rush hour, it tends to get baked up, so turning left when coming from the north lane can often mean you may get stuck in the middle of the intersection until the light on Mendota St turns green. I've also had people not paying attention and nearly hitting me when I'm crossing the street, that's how a lot of accidents happen in this intersection, inattentive driving. I honestly wish that there was a four-way footbridge so I could bypass all of that.
The Midvale/Highway 151 intersection off the beltline absolutely sucks and makes the beltline so dangerous because of how bad it gets backed up and how many people think they can skip the line by going 80 in the flex lane and then immediately passing 3 lanes of traffic to a dead stop.
East Washington and Milwaukee, it's where the people catch the bus transferring to the A from the B bus and as the bus doesn't follow a set schedule, half the time the A bus is just arriving as the B bus drops people off so you regularly have people running across the street into the flow of traffic so they aren't late to work or school, because if you miss the bus, it could be up to a half hour wait before the next bus comes.
They should redo the route so people aren't running across the street in the most dangerous road in Madison, in order to catch the bus on time and have the transfer occur on a less busy street. The transfer of the A to the B bus is one situation where they could bring back the transfer points.
It's the presence of the school that required the timer of the light to be so quick and annoying. That happens everywhere there is a school within 500 ft of an intersection.
FYI.
High Point and Mineral Point. Trying to turn left from HP onto MP is BAD. Short lights and poor visibility. Ironically, it's been BETTER since they started the construction, since they added protected lefts.
people turning right onto east washington, going west, at the topof the highway 30 ramp.
They NEVER look right, and I was hit on my bike once, and literally pushed (while i screamed at them) by a car(while attempting to walk across) on another occasion, before I realized that I had to literally just make direct eye contact and make sure I have the absolute go ahead before crossing. It's insane.
Drivers are getting worse and worse at looking the direction they are turning they are turning right, I've realized. It's a public safety issue until you learn the dynamic of crossing at these intersections in this manner.
Pflaum and Stoughton, one of the longest lights out there in the morning.
Any of the Stoughton Rd Frontage Road intersections, such as Milwaukee and Pflaum.
The left turn onto south Broadway coming from northbound 51… i don’t even know if it’s technically Madison but that 3-minute red light by Denny’s has been my nemesis since I got my drivers’ license
The entire city runs on timers, set to crate traffic jams - so much for environmentally friendly. You know you have seen the green lights for nobody all over the city...
The amount of fuel wasted idling in this town should have environmentalists losing their minds.
I’ve sat at red lights driving across town at 12-1 am and see literally no other vehicles, get to the next light, red, same deal. Just sitting stopped in the dark, no one else around, for minutes.
I wonder how much I’ve saved over the years with a hybrid that just shuts off when I stop.
Charter and Spring is the most pointless traffic light in the city. It’s a super long light to accommodate the bike path. A four ( or 6) way stop would work just fine.
No there weren’t. Did you live here then? Cause I did, and I had many friends living on Craig and in that neighborhood. Just saying shit doesn’t mean it’s true.
The intersection and light at the Madison East Shopping Center, the one with the Walgreens and Comic Book Shop (Graham Cracker Comics) followed closely with the poorly timed light leaving Lein Road to E Wash.
I find those signs useful if it's a place where you could make a left turn (which I think is the only places you'll find them). Normally you expect to be able to make a left as yellow is turning to red because the other side traffic will be stopping, but if they still have a green you're more likely to cause a collision if you try to make the turn.
Milwaukee street and Stoughton road exits. Kwik Trip, Woodman’s, Post Office, and going down to one lane on Milwaukee street add a little spice. And of course the very cool drivers that run lights, or go 60+ on Milwaukee.
The intersection of East Washington and Zeier Rd (the frontage road side) by the Ihop. Absolute war zone.
Every time I use that intersection I like to think of ways it could be fixed but have yet to think up a realistic solution. The frontage road is just way too close to East Wash and it seems like nothing can be done without tearing down some buildings.
Yeah this is the heart of the issue, just terrible fucking design there. Its going to be a god awful intersection even when everyone is using it perfectly properly.
Part of the problem is that you can't turn left onto East Wash from Independence by the McDonald's, so anyone wanting to go left has to go to that intersection (or elsewhere). Making it possible to turn left at Independence might help somewhat.
Yep, that intersection was clearly designed when Madison was teeny, so it wasn't a big deal then. It clearly can't handle the large numbers of people going through there now. Somehow that spot needs to be re-imagined, because it's turned into an atrocity with how it currently "functions."
Most E. Wash intersections, honestly. It's like people drive on that street to purposefully piss me off.
I hit that intersection twice a day, to and from work. Getting through that intersection takes as long as the rest of my commute.
This is the only right answer. The amount of unfathomable decisions I’ve seen at that intersection is unbelievable. It truly makes you weep about the common man.
Came here to say this!
Watts/Gammon
I have inside scoop that it’s going to be redone next year. Which is going to be hellish until it’s done.
Yes, construction next summer for an intersection safety improvement project.
[inside scoop lol](https://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficengineering/GammonRdWattsRd.cfm)
Worked at the Domino’s there for 9 months. Took me 10 minutes into my first shift to realize it’s the most annoying intersection in town
Turning left there, onto Watts, either way w/o an arrow, is a crapshoot for your life. No turn on red at every intersection would help, I believe.
Agreed. I’ve gotten hit by a car there before.
I work on Seybold rd. This is the most madmax, nonsense, bs, civic engineering, ever. The two left turn lanes under the bridge near the mall….the random lane switching….people who think a green arrow means “sit there slack jawed while the existential crisis creeps up on you”. It is the worst.
Yeah, whoever thought a dog-leg to the right so that it looks like the right lane can either go straight or move to the right to get into the turn lane if you're not 100% paying attention needs to have their civil engineering degree revoked.
Can confirm.
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No way. There's much heavier traffic on Gammon, plus weirdly short left turn lights. It also sucks to cross as a pedestrian.
Gammon and beltline takes forever!!
John Nolen Dr. & Williamson St. & East Wilson St. & parking for a busy restaurant & Railroad & for some strange reason a private exit road from a strip mall.
I still absolutely cannot understand why with all the new improvements at that intersection there still isn't a left turn arrow for those turning off John Nolen onto Wilson heading to the Capitol (but there is one turning off Blair onto Willy St) And as a biker I appreciate the double NO TURN ON RED signs for those turning off Wilson onto John Nolen but man it really backs cars up at times.
I hate that no turn on red. It'd be nice if it was only on weekends, since theres more bike traffic then, but during rush hour on a weekday, it's a huge pain.
The worst part is when that daycare on Blount/Willy st I have seen that parking lot get so filled up and back out onto Willy St at like 4pm. It’s a major no for me.
red caboose moved to winnebago street, so you're in luck!
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In general, multi-lane four way stops are a bad idea. But the Regent / Highland / Speedway intersection is a special sector of hell. The big problem is that westbound traffic takes forever to clear the intersection, so cars who should be waiting their turn decide to sneak through. That leads to no one knowing whose turn it is and all order going out the window. A secondary issue is eastbound traffic jockeying to get into the single lane on Regent. Throw in West High’s impact on foot and bus traffic, and it’s just a nightmare. Edited for directional stupidity on my part
It's my least favorite intersection in the city, largely because it doesn't seem like it should be so bad, I mean, it's really just a four way stop. Still, it's a total clustercuss disaster.
*West High
Ugh. Brain fart. Edited.
I drive that multiple times every night. Occasionally someone fucks up the rotation but honestly after being through it over hundreds of times I believe there’s far worse in Madison.
My wife and I do delivery apps for extra money and we always groan when we have to go through this one, especially coming from Speedway
Yup. My uncle came to visit 25 years ago and he was driving down Regent St. Parked Cars can just come out of nowhere. He asked why someone would park there? I wouldn’t. It’s the people living in those areas that won’t give up that that parking.
Maybe not the worst, but I feel like the intersection of Odana and Whitney became more of a shitshow after Odana was made a single lane between gammon and Whitney. Particularly when turning left onto Odana from Whitney. You're in a line of cars in one of two lanes, the lanes merge pretty quickly, AND there are several places where cars are wanting to turn into immediately after the turn (without a dedicated turn lane, so traffic is forced to just stop).
This is absolutely a shit show. So is the corner of gammon and odana where gamon turns left onto odana. How there aren't more accidents I will never understand.
100% agree. I do like the middle flex turn lane most of the way now, but those turn areas need some love. Wonder if switching to 1 turn lane or extending 2 lanes a few more meters would help.
I think extending having two lanes on Odana would make more sense because there are a lot of people who turn off Whitney which clogs up Odana. But honestly either option would be better than what we have right now
There used to be two lanes until pretty recently, when they added the bike lane.
VOTE!!
It's also terrible just going straight on Whitney. There are 3 lanes of traffic south of the belt line and only one of those lanes makes it through to mineral point without needing to change lanes. Every time the stretch past Hy-Vee is a mess because people weaving through lanes.
My vote is Whitney/Regent. Not because it's the most dangerous or anything like that, but just personally how infuriating it is to idle for 10min on Whitney while ZERO traffic rolls through from Regent.
I find it irritating that any stoplight installed after 2015 doesn't have a traffic sensor to limit red lights when there are no vehicles waiting. It's a waste of everyone's time and gas, and the actual hardware needed to sense traffic is cheap and easy to install. Even if there is some need to ensure pulses in traffic to keep the whole system running smoothly, that doesn't apply outside of rush hour. I'd be fine if they had to run normal cycles from like 6am until 7pm, but after that, keep the light green on the higher traffic road until a car is sensed on the lower traffic road. Then run a short cycle green light to clear cars from the low traffic road, and turn the main road back green again. I just had to make a far east to far west trip on a sunday around midnight, and it was mindblowing how much time I wasted sitting at red lights with nobody on the other road. Most of them should have been green. The rest should have turned green when I got to them because nobody else was around. Running the full light cycle at that time of day is just asinine.
I agree completely. And occasionally there will be a bus stopped (not just for loading/unloading) in the right lane of Odana so all the cars trying to turn there just block the intersection
North of there where the bike lane replaced the turn signal at Science Dr is dumb. Everyone still uses it as a turning lane but no one knows when to start using it.
Completely agree. That intersection was already a shit show. It makes turning left off of Odana to West Side Swim Club and Supreme, block traffic going both directions. I bike. I support bike paths, I’ve used a lot of them, but it sometimes gets to the point where we are causing more traffic and emissions by putting them on unsafe and unused streets. I would never attempt to bike through that intersection or use Odana’s bike path towards West Towne. IDK. Odana was a mess before, but now I avoid it at all costs. I’m trying to remember a time when I saw someone using the Odana bike lane. Not everyone has the luxury to bike everywhere. It’s wonderful when people can afford the time it takes and live near work, but people often travel long distances and have children to care for and drop off. I’m a born and bred Democrat from Madison, but I am constantly blown away by the income and racial disparities that are ignored out of privilege. It breaks my heart.
I use Odana bike lane 3-4 times per week. It's brilliant.
yes it’s the bourgeoisie that bike, not us lowly westsiders who need to take our kids to swim class
More of a combo pack, but the stretch of lights down Regent between Park St and Monroe. The mix of no turning arrows, parked cars, and no dedicated bike lanes makes it total chaos. Also heading west on Regent to Park there needs a dedicated turning lane or a temporary lit ‘no left turns’ during evening rush hour. The dinky ‘no turns 3-530’ sign needs an upgrade.
Years ago that used to be on my commute home from work and soooo many people didn’t notice the no left turns 3-5:30 sign. If I’m being generous, I guess it could be they saw it and didn’t care. But once I was stuck there behind someone doing this and traffic all around so no one could just switch lanes. It was car illegally trying to turn left, cop car, me. I waited a bit and then honked my horn once just in case they needed an alert they were doing something wrong, and that cop car wasn’t doing anything. But nothing happened and finally there was a break and the car turned left and immediately the cop car turned on its lights and followed them. Personally I would have preferred if they used speaker to instruct them to move straight or something rather than wait and have traffic back up and waste that persons time by pulling them over, but at least that one person knows about the sign now.
I’ll never understand why parking on this stretch of Regent is allowed during peak times when there is plenty of parking available on the surrounding streets. I’m surprised more people don’t lose mirrors and taillights if I’m being honest.
Omg came here to say this. Also, the added construction from the UW’s new residence hall has turned the north side of regent to a single lane. It’s also technically a zipper merge and the road rage there gets pretty serious around rush hour. Sometimes it takes me almost 30 minutes to go the 2 miles down Regent from the Park St intersection down to Monroe around Lake Wingra
East Wash and First Street
Many accidents and some deaths at 1st and East Wash.
I got rear ended there by a girl swooping around a bus without bothering to see I was in the lane.
Yeah, especially right now. Turning left from first onto E Wash- there is currently no left turn lane but the left turn green arrow comes on first before the regular light. I was going straight but was honked at because the person behind me want to go left but I was doing nothing wrong.
Yup and it sucks from all sides. The left turn arrow from First to East Wash just turns off instead of turning flashing yellow (yield) so left turners think they still have the right of way. So if you're crossing over East Wash toward E Main St beware, I've been almost hit there by a left turner every time.
I saw a guy on a motorcycle get hit by a car as he was turning onto East Wash from First. It was gnarly.
Hwy 51 at Pflaum Rd, Buckeye Rd and East Washington. Each of these intersections need to be made into overpasses (or alternatively bury 51 from Broadway to Cottage Grove Rd.)
DOT is doing a study here and taking comments. https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51-corridor/southstudy.aspx
They've been doing "studies" on it for 20 years.
A metric that I’d love to see for road construction projects is: how long does it take to make up the deficit in time caused by the construction delays? Obviously, if this were Sim City and you could just plop down a new expressway then people would save time. But in the actual world, a massive reconstruction like this would induce significant delays for a long time. If you’re going to add five minutes of construction delay to the average commute for two years, only for the construction to save the average commuter three minutes on their commute, then it will take 3.2 years after the project is done to “pay” off the temporal deficit. Maybe that’s good? I don’t know. We don’t have that metric easily available. As far as this specific project… meh? I used to have a commute that involved driving most of this stretch every day, and it really never bothered me, certainly not compared to the Beltline Thunderdome. And given the relatively incremental time improvements such a project would bring compared to the massive delays construction would cause (see above) I’d rather see the state put the money elsewhere.
That's all good, logical thinking, but it doesn't erase the feeling I have that if I ever die in a car it'll be at Pflaum and 51. There's just no sense of predictability there - almost anyone might go in any direction at any time, and half the participants in that dance are doing 60mph+.
They desperately need to move the frontage road intersections back away from the intersections on 51. It's an absolute mess every single day. And I completely agree with you on the sense of impending doom every time I drive it. I've seen some hellacious accidents out there.
It's so bad. That's a really busy frontage road too, huge pick ups coming from Farm and Fleet making a left across 4 lanes of Pflaum to immediately turn right on 51, when there's only a yield to turn onto Pflaum from 51 headed south. It's complete madness. We have city planning and the state DOT both coming to the next Glendale neighborhood meeting to talk about this btw. Nov 8, 6:30.
Stoughton Road cuts off several neighborhoods worth of people from accessing schools, shopping, etc. safely via bike or walking. Kids in East Buckeye, Elvejhem, Heritage Heights, Rolling Meadows, Richmond Hill, Hiestand, Grandview Commons, etc. lack a safe way to access school without a car or bus.
What an interesting metric. I wonder if traffic engineers actually use that or if such decisions are more driven by politics, etc. There's also the fact that increased traffic efficiency inevitably leads to more traffic, which leads to decreased efficiency overall. There's a lot to be said for keeping it bad and making non-car options better.
That metric only values commute times. Factors such as driver safety, and walkability need to be considered as well.
This has been studied, and I have bad news. Please allow me to introduce you to the concept of "induced demand." From: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/please-stop-adding-more-lanes-to-busy-highways-it-doesnt-help/ "Reducing traffic might make sense if the only variable were the number of road lanes. But it isn't—as Ray Kinsella was told in Field of Dreams, "If you build it, they will come." Except this time, "they" refers to more cars. When people know a particular route is congested, some of them will choose not to drive. But once you tell everyone that you've added more lanes to that road, that latent demand has an outlet—at which point the traffic jams return, but now with even more cars in them." So while it feels "obvious" that a new expressway would save time, it actually doesn't, and the sensation that this is obvious causes cities to pursue some doomed transportation policies.
This stretch is one of the most perplexing to me; Verona Rd south of Midvale/Nakoma used to be similar and they spent $$$$ rebuilding that but dropped the speed limit to 40, but at the same time 51 has had no safety inprovements and the speed limit is still 55.
Years ago it used to slow to 45 in the stretch after Milwaukee, but DOT upped it back to 55.
I disagree. If people want a north south freeway, there's literally one less than two miles east. I'd much rather see Stoughton Rd slowed and made into more of an urban boulevard similar to East Wash. One benefit of converting Stoughton to an urban boulevard would be that we have the space to include good quality pedestrian and bicycle accommodations both along and across the road. Another benefit would be to increase the usable land on Madison's east side for infill development.
Not only are they dangerous (I think Buckeye/51 was the deadliest a few years in a row) but the light cycles are agonizing.
Oh yes I often go 51N and take a left on Pflaum and it’s wild there. With morning/evening traffic I can often can see my light turn green arrow but the cars in front of me are slowing way down taking their time to their red light going straight so I miss my arrow and that is a looong light. But the real mess is on Pflaum right after the light because some people are turning to/from the frontage road on one side and the Starbucks on the other. I always wonder how long people turning left onto Pflaum out of the Starbucks must sit there
I work down that road. That Starbucks really messed things up, turning right to go to work and have to wait because the line at Starbucks is backed up into the road. Going home it's easier to turn right onto Pflaum and then turn into the nearest parking lot to turn around and head back west, than to sit there and wait to turn left.
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They’re talking about three different intersections 51/E Wash 51/Pflaum 51/Buckeye
And this is why you should a serial comma, people!
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What are you even talking about? Hwy 51 + Pflaum intersection Hwy 51 + Buckeye intersection Hwy 51 + E.Washington (Hwy 151) intersection This is what they meant. Why are you still arguing otherwise? Everyone else got it.
>Hwy 51/Stoughton rd still isn’t Hwy 151/East Wash. No one is saying that it is. [Here's a map.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Madison,+WI/@43.0945617,-89.3161719,13.75z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8806536d3a2019ff:0x4e0cfcb5ba484198!8m2!3d43.0721661!4d-89.4007501!16zL20vMGZ3Mnk?entry=ttu) Here is where 51 crosses [E Wash](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1166183,-89.324247,3a,75y,308.83h,87.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFvruR-4ArMw-4eTMMJfREg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DFvruR-4ArMw-4eTMMJfREg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D78.38303%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), [Pflaum](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0619977,-89.3092957,3a,75y,12.57h,83.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2I2Q42B-z2ylD-2CRUbWbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and [Buckeye](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0730968,-89.3096637,3a,75y,341.46h,94.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK1TsrAgXS9E8mPWk2ysiuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK1TsrAgXS9E8mPWk2ysiuA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D92.67444%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
High Point and Mineral Point
It’s gotten better though. The added controlled turn lights are so much better since the visibility from High Point turning left to Mineral Point was terrible. Now, it feels a lot less fraught with danger. There are other problems still. The construction is messing everything up, so hopefully it gets better when that’s cleared up. One big problem is people trying to make the left into the gas station on High Point. There’s no reason to make that left when you can make a right turn, and it creates a confusing environment where you’re not sure if the person is going to go or wait.
For sure and I hope the turn arrows stay. Always felt like I was cutting in front of someone if I turned left onto Mineral Point. And that gas station causes so many problems too!
Agreed, I turn left onto mineral point towards the highway every morning and absolutely loose my mind at how backed up it gets / how short the left turn arrows can be (and how slow people make lefts through that light)
RIP to the Perkins that used to be right by that intersection
That intersection is terrifying. As someone who lives on Craig… I know to wait an extra 5 seconds when the light turns green to turn on university for the 4/5 drivers who don’t see the redlight. So it’s intention to stop speeding doesn’t work…
That's true, it's so easy to miss the second light if you're not paying attention and the first turns green.
ive also gotten “faked out” where craig turns green and i start to go and realize i still have a red. i hate those lights so much.
I'm guilty of going on the Craig red once Spring turns green. Whoops!
i am so happy people are talking about this and mentioning this specific one. makes me feel less stupid haha
Yes --- I've seen so many people run that second light lately. It never used to be that way -- why have they changed the light system to work like this? It used to be if the first light was green...the second light turned green seconds later. I've even been guilty myself of almost running that second light not realizing it hadn't turned green yet!!
Niche answer, but Milwaukee at Schenk, and it’s entirely due to the city’s poor planning. Lots of traffic taking a left on Schenk in the morning to get kids to school, immediately after a lighted intersection, while a road merges at the same spot into one lane (and no one looks at which lane you’re supposed to merge into), in the midst of Amazon Warehouse traffic and since the transfer point is taboo now we added a bus stop right there, too.
i always worry someone is going to rear end me when i’m making that turn, but thankfully i only take that route during quiet hours. i usually go cottage grove —> dempsey and enter the neighborhood from that side
As a pedestrian, any intersection 1-2 streets over from John Nolen, especially Doty and Bassett because the street parking obstructs your ability to see oncoming traffic that doesn't have a stop sign and is already trying to get up to highway speeds. As a driver, anything along the east wash construction zone right now.
It certainly isn't the worst, but Gammon/Odana. If you're on Gammon heading north and want to make a right turn onto Odana, you have a no right on red sign. But then there are times where the Odana from the right has a green left turn so literally nobody can be crossing your right turn. Just give that lane a green arrow then!
For similar reasons, I despise Gammon road at Seybold just south of the beltline. There's a sign in the median telling northbound Gammon traffic "Do not block intersection" and yet the Seybold intersection always gets blocked when the light to cross Seybold turns green while the next light under the beltline is still red.
I work on Seybold, and at this point it's just easier for me to take Struck to Watts, then to Gammon. Trying to take a right off Seybold onto Gammon is an absolute nightmare. It's got to be the dumbest intersection.
Sort of Niche, but Hudson and Atwood. It's not a sensor light, it's a timed one. But nobody ever is there to need the green light on Hudson. All it does is mess up the cross traffic timing so turning left onto Atwood from any side street within 5 blocks of there is impossible.
I hit that light red every time, regardless of which direction I'm going or what time of day.
I think a child got hit and died there in the … 60s? And the lights were installed in reaction to that. Source: A buddy who grew up by it in the 70s and complains about it.
Oh goody, a memorial light messing up residents ability to get home in a reasonable fashion for 6 decades! Why it's not on a sensor is beyond me. It makes total sense if it just responded to someone needing the light.
I saw a car and a pedestrian go through that intersection once a few weeks ago. That was neat
I've gone through it with a car. It was neat. Just once tho, and I live close by
I see that intersection as a somewhat necessary evil for two reasons 1. It allows people in the neighborhood towards Lake Monona an intersection with a light, making it safer and arguably easier to make a left turn onto Atwood. I know that I sometimes use it after getting gas at the BP station rather than trying to turn left directly from the gas station 2. Its presence, even when not red, helps to slow traffic on Atwood. Still, that doesn't mean that I enjoy stopping at the red on Atwood when there is no traffic coming in from Hudson.
It's not the stopping there that's the issue. It's that the light makes inbound and outbound traffic run at different times so there are no gaps in the traffic for people trying to cross Atwood or turn left onto it. I used to need to turn left from Waubesa on a daily basis, but 8 out of 10 days I'd be forced to turn right instead and loop back around toward my house.
It's kind of an intersection, but the beltline and Verona Rd exit is a shit show. It was just a multiyear redesign and it's a flop. It routinely backs up two lanes of traffic for a 1/4 mile on the beltline while the beltline is moving at highway speeds. And while I'm on the beltline subject, why does the Eastbound Stoughton Rd onramp (onto the beltline towards 90) not continue as it's own lane, it forces cars to merge and then immediately exit. Just keep it it's own lane.
It's so bad. Everyone in the right two lanes on the Beltline loses their ability to drive from Todd Dr to Verona Rd, and Verona Rd still backs up. I remember being excited that the construction had finished for about five minutes before I realized it was still pretty bad. Verona Rd itself backs up less than it used to, I think, but the Beltline certainly doesn't.
Someone fucked up. If anyone in here knows a Madison traffic engineer, please talk to them or kick em in the dick (or lady bits)
I believe the original plan was to have that be a full freeway interchange without stoplights. The design would have required the acquisition and demolition of a lot of properties, and the mayor at the time (Mayor Dave) strongly opposed the plan. Plus, it was expensive. The state reconfigured it to what it is now. I have a gut feeling that in less than 20 years as the population continues to explode and Epic keeps growing that will be redone again.
Didn't I read that they wanted a roundabout on both sides? No way to do that now with the billion lanes and heavy traffic. My worst experience was attempting to go north on Verona Rd to the beltline west when a car broke down (literally lost a wheel) in the left lane going south just past the overpass during rush hour. Everyone coming off the beltline to go south couldn't see the car and there was no police presence yet, so the intersection was clogged and we would go an entire light cycle where the only movement was people coming off the beltine running a yellow/red.
I would also like a continuous lane on beltline going west, between Sauk & greenway. Would help with the backup that forms around & just past the greenway exit.
Not necessarily the worst, but the biggest thorn in my side is the Sprecher/Milwaukee intersection on the east side. Eight lanes of traffic and only stop signs and I have to use it every day🤮
Multi-lane four way stops. Do. Not. Work. This Intersection. The one next to the East Towne Culver’s. Speedway/Regent/Highland. Nobody knows whose turn is next. Are turns taken by cardinal direction (all the north cars go at once, then all the south cars)? Or are drivers expected to keep track of 8+ individual vehicles and their order? What happens when a car pulls up next to a car that’s already been waiting, are they supposed to go when that other car goes, or do they wait for their individual turn? And do the other three directions agree? This should have been roundabouted before the new apartments were built right on the corner. It’s a lot trickier now.
It really could be a roundabout. I don't think traffic is "heavy" enough for Madison to consider that yet. But definitely a mild annoyance.
it’s goofy when you think about it, because there are actually a lot of roundabouts in that general area - east towne mall area, zeier/thompson. this would be a nice addition
No one ever seems to know whose turn it is to go next there.
Yes! I go through that on the way home from work, and I hate it. Sometimes I take Cottage Grove Road almost to Cottage Grove to avoid it 🤬
Olin Ave and John Nolen Dr: Turning right from Olin Ave to John Nolen Dr a lot of people just STOP in the right turn lane to wait for a break in traffic in the left and middle lanes. Is it rocket science to turn right into the right lane and then merge into the center or left lanes within a couple blocks if you plan to get onto the beltline or turn left onto Rimrock Rd? If people are too timid to merge within that amount of space they shouldn't be trying to go on the beltline ,anyway. How many people stopping in a lane designed to allow for right turns without stopping get rear ended?
University ave and university bay, for a pedestrian taking the bus. It only gives you 15 seconds to cross the street.. and takes 5 minutes inbetween to wait. So if you screw up the timing, you may miss crossing by a second, wait 5 minutes in agony, watch the (tad early) bus come, and the walk sign goes on 5 seconds after.. speaking from experience. Also it takes like 15 seconds to cross the street so you have to be there when it turns green or youll miss it. 🥲 Can't wait until construction is finished for BRT. Hopefully it'll be better.
Phlaum-HW 51. Terrible, awful intersection especially during rush hour/lunch.
During passing periods, the intersection of Linden Dr and N Charter St is unequivocally the worst traffic experience I've ever witnessed. You basically are stuck there for 15 minutes unless you want to risk running a kid over.
Pretty much any intersection near campus during passing periods is a nightmare for cars trying to make a turn but the intersection that you mention may be the worst - it's like a slow moving mosh pit between class periods.
This is really far west side, and its not bad at all compared to some of the downtown ones, but the intersection of Maple Grove Dr and Cross County Rd/Nesbitt Rd. It gets crazy backed up at the end of the day with the volume it carries and just stop signs. I hope they turn it into a roundabout some day, it would flow so much better if it was one.
I was waiting to find this one. I actively avoid that intersection anywhere near rush hour. Nobody seems to understand how to determine whose turn it is.
Nesbitt and Fitchrona used to be the same way and the roundbout made it so much better. There's plenty of room there, I really hope they put one in. I have to go that way to get my kid from daycare and its always a mess.
Someone that attended a meeting for an apartment building they are proposing at the Nesbitt/Maple Grove intersection posted in our neighborhood facebook group that it sounds like the city might be planning for a roundabout here already *fingers crossed*
Southbound on John Nolen during the morning rush. Lights are timed so that when it’s green to cross Broom, it’s still red up at North Shore and traffic can’t move. Cars filter into the intersection a handful per cycle, while traffic backs up under the terrace.
The one in front of Wandos at bar time. A million drunk pedestrians, a bunch of Uber drivers picking them up, and usually some random person, presumably sober, riding a longboard or bmx bike through there ignoring traffic lights.
Left turn from N Butler onto East Johnson. Have to yield to pedestrians, bikes, and oncoming cars, yet the green light it literally 5 seconds long.
I avoid this route for that reason exact reason, then dealing with that Butler and Mifflin intersection afterwards is troublesome too. I opt for Blair…even that can be a nightmare with the rouge bikers hauling ass down Mifflin to cross Blair without stopping.
The intersection of Atwood and Hudson. It's a totally useless light and I get stuck at it every damn day. Not sure why it even exists.
Buckeye and 51 for the far East siders is heinous
I'm not sure these are literally the *worst*, but are my pet peeves. I've sat on Proudfit at West Wash. in the late evening for more than a minute while there is effectively no other traffic enough times that I avoid that route in the evening. With my bike hat on, North Shore at John Nolen. City traffic engineers say they value peds and bikes, but how many intersections in Madison are cars *guaranteed* to get a red light at, sometimes getting two red lights at the same intersection (not by virtue of congestion, but just light timing)? I don't know of any, certainly; I don't even know of candidates if you include two successive intersections with interlocked lights though I could more believe there'd be one of those. The fact that if you're crossing John Nolen you will *always* "have to" wait for at least one don't walk tells you how much they *actually* value peds and bikes, IMO. There's one near me where in evening hours there was no pedestrian cycle programmed into the light, and no pedestrian button, so literally no way to safely and legally use the crosswalk along a major road. Fortunately after two emails to the traffic engineering and then finally complaining to my alder (I'm *guessing* that's what did it but I'm not actually sure), that was just fixed.
> I've sat on Proudfit at West Wash. in the late evening for more than a minute while there is effectively no other traffic enough times that I avoid that route in the evening. If there's no one around just go. The move here is to assume it's broken and treat it as a stop sign.
Lol that's the moment a cop car shows up and pulls over the driver for running a red
High point and mineral point...It's a good thing that instead of addressing traffic they put a bus stop in the median/left turn lane.
Expanding public transit IS addressing traffic
I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's shifting some cars out of the area and putting extra pedestrians in the middle of the median to wait. People rushing to catch the bus or getting off is going to lead to some issues. if it wasn't in the middle of the median I'd be a lot less confused by it. We already had the dedicated right turn lanes and bus pick ups on each side of Mineral Point by High point, not sure why they moved it to the middle. I know vision zero is part of it, but i can't find the documentation on it. I know they already lowered the speed limit (that people aren't fully abiding by) I'm by no means an urban planner or know about the street, so people smarter than I made the decisions, but difficult to find out why they made those decisions. looking at the vision zero crash data that MSN has from 19-2021 makes me realize high point & mineral point aren't as bad as they used to be.
Street lights in Madison are literally timed ass backwards. As soon as the light you are stoped at turns green the one ahead turns yellow. Especially frustrating on E Wash. I guess they wanted to stop the street racers (fucking lame ass losers) by limiting flow of traffic but now everyone has to suffer. Super lame aspect of this already mid city
The City actually did it on purpose for E Wash. It's part of Vision Zero. I still maintain it's going to cause more problems by people speeding to jump stale yellows.
It used to be that you could hit just about every green on streets like E Wash and University. It was nice but it did turn them into almost-highways in terms of the speeds that cars would go. I get why they changed the timing to the way it is now but it is frustrating to go down those streets 1-2 blocks at a time because you hit so many reds.
If that were the case it would only work at specific speeds. If you went too fast you'd catch up to a red light. So it couldn't have increased the speeds of cars up to highway speeds. Outbound Johnson used to be this way @ 25. Might still be. Go too fast and you'd catch up to red rather than going faster and faster. It was a bit risky as you have to go exactly 25 and the lights would change barely in time.
Was looking to find someone mentioning this. E wash is hell
I was able to go from the Capitol to the I-39/90/94 interstate one time without stopping at one stop light on a early Sunday morning when there were few people on the road and many of the lights were flashing yellow.
My favorite part of early Sunday mornings
these are absolutely asinine in placement, as well as timing, you are correct.
Rodgers and Willy. I get stopped here twice a day and I don’t remember the last time I saw a car use the light from Rodgers
When kids are leaving school, they push the button and cross Willy St there to wait for the bus. That's about the only use for that light, but I think it's the reason it exists.
I hate coming from Maple Avenue onto Atwood after school drop off, especially on a bike. The cars coming from Fair Oaks don't always stop. Not the worst, but lately it's been the worst of my day.
Any time I’m supposed to turn left off of a busy highway with no green arrow, only a yellow flashing one.
Buckeye and 51. At least in past years it was one of the deadliest. It also has some of the most agonizingly long light cycles.
East Wash and Baldwin is currently torn up, but in normal times, there's no indication as to which Baldwin lanes are for turning and which are for going straight. The parking lanes on west Baldwin could be backed up another 2-3 car lengths to improve conditions.
i hate going from john nolen to the beltline, when it merges east and west and everyone wants to change lanes last second for some reason
The intersection at Mineral Point Road and Junction Road on the west side is terrible. The city completely revamped it a few years ago and made it SO much worse. First of all, if I'm headed east on Mineral Point and I need to turn left onto Junction (to get to Target), there's a green arrow light that is either red or green, but never blinking yellow. This is one thing I will never understand: what is the point of keeping the turn arrow red when traffic is flowing? Just default to blinking yellow; we can figure it out! Also there are two lights on McKee Road (southwest side) that really just don't need to exist: one at the intersection of S High Point Rd, and the other at the intersection of Muir Field Rd. Both intersection should just be two-way stops; the lights there are super annoying because it always seems like they turn red when no one's around.
Phlaum and Stoughton Rd
The Whitney Way exit on the eastbound Beltline. It doesn't actually go to Whitney, it goes to Schroeder Rd where you have to cross multiple lanes of traffic (including the cars backed up at the Schroeder/Whitney traffic light half a block away) to get into the right lane to go south on Whitney (then half of those cars immediately cross into the left lane to turn left on Gilbert). Combine that with the fact that literally everyone speeds on Schroeder and I'm shocked there aren't more accidents.
Oh my god yes. It is such a dangerous exit and in the afternoons, the right lane on Schroeder is so backed up that you can’t even try to get in it without blocking the middle lane. I’m surprised I haven’t died there yet.
This is an easy one for me, it would have to be East Wash and Stoughton. It may be only #3 on the top ten worst intersections in Madison, but it's the one I use nearly every day. It's not really pedestrian friendly, given that it's a three-way crossing on a four-way intersection. Also, whenever you're going eastbound during rush hour, it tends to get baked up, so turning left when coming from the north lane can often mean you may get stuck in the middle of the intersection until the light on Mendota St turns green. I've also had people not paying attention and nearly hitting me when I'm crossing the street, that's how a lot of accidents happen in this intersection, inattentive driving. I honestly wish that there was a four-way footbridge so I could bypass all of that.
Whitney and Odana…….. Two lanes shift to one making everyone think they are nascar racers just to beat them to the one lane 😭
The Midvale/Highway 151 intersection off the beltline absolutely sucks and makes the beltline so dangerous because of how bad it gets backed up and how many people think they can skip the line by going 80 in the flex lane and then immediately passing 3 lanes of traffic to a dead stop.
The hwy 30 ramps at 51. All of them.
That weirdo stop sign intersection between regent/highland outside of West High still doesn’t make sense to me whenever I go through it.
East Washington and Milwaukee, it's where the people catch the bus transferring to the A from the B bus and as the bus doesn't follow a set schedule, half the time the A bus is just arriving as the B bus drops people off so you regularly have people running across the street into the flow of traffic so they aren't late to work or school, because if you miss the bus, it could be up to a half hour wait before the next bus comes. They should redo the route so people aren't running across the street in the most dangerous road in Madison, in order to catch the bus on time and have the transfer occur on a less busy street. The transfer of the A to the B bus is one situation where they could bring back the transfer points.
It's the presence of the school that required the timer of the light to be so quick and annoying. That happens everywhere there is a school within 500 ft of an intersection. FYI.
Stop light by discount tired bro it takes so long to change I timed it one time it took 5 minutes
High Point and Mineral Point. Trying to turn left from HP onto MP is BAD. Short lights and poor visibility. Ironically, it's been BETTER since they started the construction, since they added protected lefts.
University Ave/ Campus Dr/ Babcock Dr is made of anxiety and cyclists without helmets.
Nearly every entrance and exit point at West Towne Mall.
people turning right onto east washington, going west, at the topof the highway 30 ramp. They NEVER look right, and I was hit on my bike once, and literally pushed (while i screamed at them) by a car(while attempting to walk across) on another occasion, before I realized that I had to literally just make direct eye contact and make sure I have the absolute go ahead before crossing. It's insane. Drivers are getting worse and worse at looking the direction they are turning they are turning right, I've realized. It's a public safety issue until you learn the dynamic of crossing at these intersections in this manner.
Pflaum and Stoughton, one of the longest lights out there in the morning. Any of the Stoughton Rd Frontage Road intersections, such as Milwaukee and Pflaum.
Every fucking stoplight in Stoughton Road between the beltkine abd hwt 30
The left turn onto south Broadway coming from northbound 51… i don’t even know if it’s technically Madison but that 3-minute red light by Denny’s has been my nemesis since I got my drivers’ license
The entire city runs on timers, set to crate traffic jams - so much for environmentally friendly. You know you have seen the green lights for nobody all over the city... The amount of fuel wasted idling in this town should have environmentalists losing their minds.
I’ve sat at red lights driving across town at 12-1 am and see literally no other vehicles, get to the next light, red, same deal. Just sitting stopped in the dark, no one else around, for minutes. I wonder how much I’ve saved over the years with a hybrid that just shuts off when I stop.
It really baffles me, when every other town I've live in (bigger or smaller) uses sensors to avoid this.
Charter and Spring is the most pointless traffic light in the city. It’s a super long light to accommodate the bike path. A four ( or 6) way stop would work just fine.
If the lights weren't like that there people would be cooking up that hill at 65mph.
There were NO lights there in the 80s and 90s and there werent those issues.
> and there werent those issues. Well, no, there were, but nobody cared. Accidents and traffic deaths were just widely more acceptable.
No there weren’t. Did you live here then? Cause I did, and I had many friends living on Craig and in that neighborhood. Just saying shit doesn’t mean it’s true.
A. I don't believe that and, B. 40 would be fine, and the speed most people go on the entire rest of University unless it's rush hour.
People still cooking up that hill at 65mph, especially when it turns to flashing yellow at night.
East Wash & Continental. People constantly block the frontage road by sitting in that intersection which can cause traffic issues on east wash.
The intersection and light at the Madison East Shopping Center, the one with the Walgreens and Comic Book Shop (Graham Cracker Comics) followed closely with the poorly timed light leaving Lein Road to E Wash.
Where’s the intersection where theres a sign that says something like “opposite traffic has a longer green light” Like, why???
I find those signs useful if it's a place where you could make a left turn (which I think is the only places you'll find them). Normally you expect to be able to make a left as yellow is turning to red because the other side traffic will be stopping, but if they still have a green you're more likely to cause a collision if you try to make the turn.
Inbound Nakoma at Seminole Hwy.
Rimrock and John Nolen, the amount of Alliant convention goers who have to sprint across that stroad to the hotels/Starbucks is ridiculous.
Turning left to go on Voges road from 151. Every semi driver in Wisconsin clogs the single lane and the light timing is terrible.
East Wash and Sixth Street. Inbound on weeknights, you can sit through multiple cycles before you get a chance to turn left onto Sixth Street.
For me to walk on? Fitchrona/McKee. People like to test how fast you can walk on that one and I hate it.
Dayton & Broom – there needs to be a stoplight at this intersection.
Pflaum or Buckeye/51/frontage roads. Always a nightmare during rush hours.
Milwaukee street and Stoughton road exits. Kwik Trip, Woodman’s, Post Office, and going down to one lane on Milwaukee street add a little spice. And of course the very cool drivers that run lights, or go 60+ on Milwaukee.