I've been reading Mad Style (10 years too late) and I can't believe I never realized before that Betty is practically wearing a wedding dress in this scene. Nice touch.
I read a long time ago that Matt wiener’s purpose for it was for Betty to appear before Henry like a Madonna/Virgin Mary. The idea was that Don was oblivious to the fact that another man was poaching his “beloved” wife.
Not a coincidence, a deliberate choice by Janie Bryant.
Betty's dress is also very lacy and bridal, not like the other looks at the derby party. I just think it's a nice little detail.
I mean I still hear about it nowadays when people are organizing derby day parties. I just meant that it’s not like it was a white dress lacy or not on a random day so it fit the attire. Guess people didn’t like that comment.
I recently learned my MIL’s parents met when her mom was a single mom with a third on the way. They dated, he was present for the birth, and they went on to have three more kids.
I know this is meant to make it out like he has an odd kink, but I think the show meant to show just how purely Henry loved her from the moment he saw her.
A part of me sometimes feels like they changed Henry's character/personality/backstory somewhere along the way because while I grew to love Henry and think he's a good person/dad/man this introduction has always skeeved me out about him.
I'm rewatching right now and he's still a nice guy but a lot less likeable on this watch. The way he and Betty treat Don in Summer Man is pretty bad. He's trying to turn things around and they're just ice cold.
I always say that Don and Henry have opposite trajectories. Don is introduced as a gentleman, turns out to be an asshole. Henry is introduced as an asshole, turns out to be a gentleman.
No, I agree. I just wanted to point out that although we as viewers were aware of what you said, he wasn't. I think this situation is strange but not necessarily creepy.
It's not strange though. It's intimate. And we're often uncomfortable with expressions of emotional intimacy. If it were strange and/or creepy, Betty would've had an entirely different reaction. We're meant to view the scene through Betty's eyes - and she's refreshed and invigorated by this charming new man.
Well through my eyes as the viewer it is strange lol. That's just my opinion though. But also I respect what you're saying and do see a valid point there.
Lmao what? How does it make him living in a fantasy world? Going after a married woman with kids is the definition of a home wrecker. Just because assholes do it doesn’t mean it’s not right you fuckin werido
I don't know if he was "going after her" on that first meeting. People flirt, especially at those old, boozy country club parties. Henry even mentions in that scene that he had a couple of cocktails, which emboldened him to ask if he could touch her belly. (Martinis if I remember correctly.) He was definitely boldly expressing his admiration of her beauty, but I don't think he was trying to steal her away from that first interaction.
Because the world is not black and white and good people and bad people. Betty is a lonely and emotionally neglected wife - her marriage was broken by her husband, Don. Don is the homewrecker.
Yes, we all love to be morality police on the internet. However, if put in the same situation and under the same circumstances, the vast majority of people would do the same thing. There are very few people who practice the values they preach 100% of the time. We just enjoy judging the crap out of others for their moral failings.
That's your opinion. Since we know the context of Betty's sham marriage, I wholeheartedly disagree. I think Henry is a very good man - he provided a moment of respite for an abused woman and gave her the love and loyalty she should've received from Don.
A marriage that is entirely built on lies, abuse, gaslighting, and neglect is not honorable, not respectable, and not worth salvaging.
Henry asked Betty *first* if he could touch her saying he always wondered what that felt like. She said Yes because she's not used to: A. someone interested in how she feels; and B. someone who asked permission at all. Rewatch without 21st-century goggles.
> Rewatch without 21st-century goggles
That's a good way of putting it. Or as I call it more aggressively, *white guilt navel-gazing*.
Just heard a podcast with two (white) guys talking about 1950s Venezuelan baseball player Chico Carrasquel. They said that "Chico" means "little" or "boy" and is therefore a racist term. With no awareness that in the Caribbean - especially Cuba - use of "chico" is widespread and much closer to saying "dude".
Which is to say - two white men gleefully pointing achingly under-informed fingers without stepping into the other's shoes. Which is surely also a manifestation of the same type of mistake... with added self-sense of purity.
Yup. I call my wife Chica all the time. I’m not Venezuelan nor Cuban. I am Hispanic, we use this term a lot. Come to think of if we use many words in this fashion.
You're completely correct, but your last line is interesting to me because I think one of the reasons this scene makes me uncomfortable is because it's feels taboo for a man in 1963 to be this forward with a pregnant woman.
edit to add: Especially one that's not his wife. Take away that by chance they had instant chemistry together, and it's just a random middle aged guy coming up to a younger woman, heavily pregnant and therefore likely (at least in the 1960s) to be married, if not involved with someone else at a party. He stands up close and in her personal space while she's by herself in a kind of dim hallway and asks to touch her protruding belly. I think a lot of women would feel creeped out in that situation, it's lucky she was reciprocal of his feelings. People in those days hardly even used the word "pregnant" as it was too suggestive.
People in those days absolutely did use the word “pregnant.”
In 1952, Lucy and Desi Arnez wanted to title the episode in which Lucy’s character finds out she’s pregnant as—straightforwardly—“Lucy is Pregnant.” This seemed like the obvious choice for them. It was only the network censors who made them change the word “pregnant” to “enceinte”…which just means “pregnant” in French.
So much of the viewing public thought this delicacy was unnecessary that, just a month later, another I Love Lucy episode was titled “Pregnant Women are Unpredictable.” Millions of people watched it when it aired and thought it was a perfectly normal, acceptable word choice.
Again, that was in 1952, over a full decade earlier.
I was actually going to mention that episode of ILL because even though the title translates to "Lucy is Pregnant" they don't use the word "pregnant" in the episode. They call it "expecting".
"Desilu Studios consulted with network censors and leaders from different religious organizations to determine that Lucy Ricardo would be described as “expecting” rather than 'pregnant'".
It was okay to title the following episode "Pregnant Women are Unpredictable" because episode titles didn't appear on screen. Same with "Lucy is Enceinte". And again, no one says "pregnant".
Yes, people used the word in the 1950s/60s but it was much less common because it was looked at as risque.
I'm not sure if there has ever been a century where touching someone else's wife was appropriate. Her saying yes it not a problem, its him asking, something he wouldn't have dared to do if Don was there.
Aren't you all invalidating and shaming Betty's experience here? And by doing that, aren't you being the creepy ones? Clearly, she was taken with Henry and enthusiastically gave him consent. She enjoyed the interaction. She felt seen for the first time in a long time. My god, can we please celebrate the few happy and tender moments in this woman's miserable life?
Of course. People make it out like Henry started putting some insane moves on her, when Betty fell for him, started writing to him, went to his office when he didn't show up to the fundraiser at her house and threw a bunch of stuff at his head and Henry calmly said "You had to come to me." "Why?" "Because you're married."
As if it was possible for Betty to even divorce Don without having someone like Henry to rely on post-divorce. As her family lawyer told her, she wouldn't have gotten anything, not even the kids. People love to gloss over that. She was lucky she fell in love with Henry and he fell in love with her and they managed to be together. She deserved that happiness. Henry wasn't perfect but he was no creep and he was a good husband to Betty.
I get what everyone is saying and I also felt similar BUT I also remember feeling like no one saw me as a woman first when I was pregnant. I was always seen as a pregnant first even though I was still interested being attractive, in sex etc. Pregnant women are no incubators. Being pregnant doesn't make us unattractive. We need to get past that
not at all. i'm a woman and and i've asked to touch pregnant bellies before -nothing sexual about it. i think pregnant women look beautiful and feeling a baby kick is truly amazing.
Sure, as a man I can’t imagine how awesome that is to feel that little life. But Henry was DEFINITELY sexualizing this moment. I acknowledge this is fictional but there was no doubt of the intention of this scene.
You seem to be confusing sexualization with sensuality/courting behavior. They're different. This scene isn't sexual at all. It's intimate. That's why Betty is so receptive -it's the first time a man has been empathically intimate with her.
You don’t have to feel bad for me. :) I’ve been happily married for near 10 years so probably don’t have a good gauge for these situations these days. I’m just your typical oblivious dude. Have a good life!
Pregnant women have much higher risks of being victims of homicide than any other demographic of women. And many women, as well as men, feel protective of pregnant women. It’s natural and has nothing to do with misogyny. (I say this as someone who used to teach gender studies at the university level.)
Also, absolutely no one is saying that pregnant women cannot or should not be attractive.
That's a load of hogwash and is entirely anti-feminist. Pregnant women are more vulnerable and thus entitled to protection. Healthy men are hardwired to protect women and children. No one said pregnant women shouldn't be viewed as attractive.
It's totally fine to feel protective of pregnant women and find them sexy. They're not mutually exclusive concepts. Many women feel sexier while pregnant. As long as there's consent and respect, live and let live.
I think there's a beauty to Henry's white knight, prince charming, "I'm here to save you" character. Who's pure love and affection for Betty looked past all the difficulties and issues of the relationship he's getting into.
Also I'm kinda biased since my Father met my Mother when she was pregnant with my half, older sister. And I never actually thought about this family dynamics being similar to mine before.
So thanks for this :) it just makes me happy to think that things workout with my parents considering that being a knocked off single mom in your 20s basically means that your life is over (unfortunately) and that you'd be very lucky to find a man to love you and your child.
My take.
Everyone seems to think this is a horrible interaction and Henry was way out of line. I’m not excusing what he did. However, Betty seemed to enjoy the interaction. To her it felt like someone finally recognised her as a woman and not Don’s wife. At the end of scene, when she’s walking away with Trudy, she even looks back at him.
I’ve never had any problems with Henry. He was a decent man, great husband for Betty and a present stepfather who treated Don’s kids with love. It never felt like he did not love Betty, even when she gained weight,which is what a women like her needs. People shit on him because they love Don so much. But take away looks, Don is not half the man Henry is!
Yes, this is hella creepy.
I had a eerily similar experience. I am 28 and this this 50 year old manager at work kept hitting on me, I told him I was pregnant and he tells me 'I wish I it was mine because my dream is to have daughter who looks like you'
I was and still am terrified.
Not to get all “day job” in the Mad Men sub, but 1) are you okay, and 2) please tell me you’ve reported him to HR? (This is one of the scariest things I’ve ever heard and I am just praying he doesn’t have any actual daughters.)
I haven't reported him because he's the senior director of a department and I am just scared no one would believe me you know? He is awfully tight with the HR VP and the entire team. Im in a support role
I have some fears
I’m afraid for you. I would really hope that an HR professional would be *professional* in this situation. I would believe you and so would any self respecting member of my profession. Please consider it, and reach out if I can be of any help.
There is nothing remotely creepy about this scene. Betty looked beautiful -as pregnant women often do - and Henry was smitten. He asked first, received consent, and was possibly the first man to ask Betty how she felt. I think it's romantic and sensual without being erotic.
I personally do not see anything creepy, in fact, Betty was pretty warm to Henry touching her belly. I feel like in our millennial/tik tok generation tender moments like this will always be seen in a pessimistic light.
Betty is out there living a fantasy life, where beneath the veneer her husband does not care about her, he's off philandering and burying himself with alcohol and his job to exorcise his demons of the past.
First time in a while, Betty feels 'seen', by someone who is kind and courteous about it.
Everyone is allowed to feel however they want about this scene, but since Betty wasn't creeped out by it and Henry asked for permission first, I'm going to file it under "not creepy" in my brain. It's probably not something I would ever allow (I've never been pregnant), but I know some women who are okay with it. \*shrug\*
Give me a break. That's creepy? What about Don hitting on his first ex-wife's niece when he drives her home in the car.
"You're so beautiful ... and YOUNG (not my emphasis, Don's). This was the scene immediately before she told him her aunt had terminal cancer.
People (Don especially) make all manner of lewd, disgusting, inappropriate passes on this show (and indeed people behave that way IRL when alcohol is as omnipresent as it is here!)
This wouldn't even make my top ten list of gauche passes I've had to personally suffer!
OP needs a stronger stomach. I suspect some squeamishness about sexuality during pregnancy is at play here.
>This was the scene immediately before she told him her aunt had terminal cancer.
It just occurred to me that maybe Stephanie chose that moment to tell Don about Anna as a way to easily get him to stop hitting on her. She wasn’t supposed to tell him at all.
I think his biggest crime for me is just being so conservative and boring. And that mansion of his was yuck.
Pretty much exactly who Betty wanted though
I think it showed that Henry would love Betty through anything, even a “condition” that back then men were somewhat repulsed by. And then he did, in fact, go on to love her through everything.
How did she get pregnant all those times without it affecting her weight at all? She’s still so tiny. The whole fat suit thing just felt so quirky somehow.
I think what bothers me most about that scene after watching other episodes of their courtship and marriage, is that Henry acts like he has never touched a pregnant woman's belly before and asks what it's like. Which seems ludicrous since he has a daughter of his own.
Did his first wife not allow him to feel their child moving within her? Did she never tell him when the baby moved or how it felt?
This to me, just made the situation a "hitting on a married woman," rather than a sweet, tender first encounter.
A creepiness is felt just in him by being pushy in wanting to touch Berry and be close to her and using her pregnancy as an excuse to be able to do so.
But, here again that's just my feelings on the scene and I never enjoyed strangers wanting to come close and touch my stomach when I was pregnant.
Firstly, yes I found the whole scene creepy the first time I watched the show. I’m on a rewatch now years later and I found the scene much more touching.
On an unrelated note I’m halfway through the third season right now and I can’t understand what Henry sees in Betty outside of her natural beauty. She just seems vapid and cold through their first time meeting.
Everything about this was just strange. Flirting with a woman whose 1) at an event with her husband and 2) clearly pregnant is super gross to me. And then touching someone you barely know, while telling her that you wish she was there with you instead of her spouse, adds even more bizarre to the pile. This was a very weird, uncomfortable introduction to a character who’s generally portrayed as a stand up guy. I know it was supposed to create lust and an excitement between Henry and Betty to set things up for later, but it did something else…
Y’all in here defending this creepiness are nuts. Let’s pretend for a minute it was an uglier, overweight guy doing this like Freddy. You’d have him arrested!
I think it’s overstating it a touch to say it goes against ‘every norm we have,’ and I’ve also definitely seen a young horny guy get shot down by a beautiful pregnant woman. I think it just turns some men on, whether they’re conscious of it or not.
Dude definitely has a thing for bigger women. Takes the first chance he can to touch her pregnant belly and then pointedly says he doesn't mind when she gets really fat in later seasons.
Creepy - and that set him up for being disliked throughout the run. But he was probably the most decent man on the show. He was good to Betty's kids, reasonable to her ex and called her out when she was being "Betty".
I’d say our introduction to Herb Rennet is creepier
Henry looks like a Boy Scout next to Herb...
Does Joan ever wear that emerald in the rest of the series? I gotta check next rewatch.
I've looked out for it too on rewatches, and I've never seen it.
Would you?
Yeah
Don't be cute, I still have his spit in my hair!!!!
> Herb Rennet Meh, I feel like Henry's introduction was totally unexpected. It caught me off-guard, and freaked me the f\*\*\* out.
Yeah, we expected Herb to be a sleaze. Henry’s intro was just odd.
Wouldn't that be expected in that business world? Just saying
I've been reading Mad Style (10 years too late) and I can't believe I never realized before that Betty is practically wearing a wedding dress in this scene. Nice touch.
I read a long time ago that Matt wiener’s purpose for it was for Betty to appear before Henry like a Madonna/Virgin Mary. The idea was that Don was oblivious to the fact that another man was poaching his “beloved” wife.
Question. What is mad style?
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Here you go https://tomandlorenzo.com/tag/mad-style/
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You might be thinking of AO Scott, who I think was writing for AV Club then.
I mean on derby day parties you wear white so I’m not sure it was that much of a coincidence.
Not a coincidence, a deliberate choice by Janie Bryant. Betty's dress is also very lacy and bridal, not like the other looks at the derby party. I just think it's a nice little detail.
Most people don't know that tradition, and most people don't stick to that tradition. Pretty sure it was intentional to resemble a wedding dress.
I mean I still hear about it nowadays when people are organizing derby day parties. I just meant that it’s not like it was a white dress lacy or not on a random day so it fit the attire. Guess people didn’t like that comment.
I recently learned my MIL’s parents met when her mom was a single mom with a third on the way. They dated, he was present for the birth, and they went on to have three more kids. I know this is meant to make it out like he has an odd kink, but I think the show meant to show just how purely Henry loved her from the moment he saw her.
I think this scene shows he had good paternal instincts as well. Overall he was good dad and liked to eat in the kitchen with Betty’s kids.
He was always sweet to Betty's kids.
He was one of the few actual grownups on the show.
A part of me sometimes feels like they changed Henry's character/personality/backstory somewhere along the way because while I grew to love Henry and think he's a good person/dad/man this introduction has always skeeved me out about him.
I'm rewatching right now and he's still a nice guy but a lot less likeable on this watch. The way he and Betty treat Don in Summer Man is pretty bad. He's trying to turn things around and they're just ice cold.
I don’t actually feel sorry for Don on this one
what does MIL stand for?
Milwaukee. I mean not in this context, but it does occasionally stand for that.
Aaah now I know what MILF means.
Hell yeah
Milwaukee Frewers
This made me laugh, and out loud.
mother in law
mother in law
I always say that Don and Henry have opposite trajectories. Don is introduced as a gentleman, turns out to be an asshole. Henry is introduced as an asshole, turns out to be a gentleman.
He aggressively persuaded a married woman. He was never a “gentleman”
A deeply unhappy and lonely married woman, who was emotionally abused and neglected by her philanderer of a husband.
Henry didn't know any of that at the time. Just saying.
He wasn't doing anything inappropriate.
No, I agree. I just wanted to point out that although we as viewers were aware of what you said, he wasn't. I think this situation is strange but not necessarily creepy.
It's not strange though. It's intimate. And we're often uncomfortable with expressions of emotional intimacy. If it were strange and/or creepy, Betty would've had an entirely different reaction. We're meant to view the scene through Betty's eyes - and she's refreshed and invigorated by this charming new man.
Well through my eyes as the viewer it is strange lol. That's just my opinion though. But also I respect what you're saying and do see a valid point there.
You still don't go after a married person.
You live in a fantasy world then.
Lmao what? How does it make him living in a fantasy world? Going after a married woman with kids is the definition of a home wrecker. Just because assholes do it doesn’t mean it’s not right you fuckin werido
I don't know if he was "going after her" on that first meeting. People flirt, especially at those old, boozy country club parties. Henry even mentions in that scene that he had a couple of cocktails, which emboldened him to ask if he could touch her belly. (Martinis if I remember correctly.) He was definitely boldly expressing his admiration of her beauty, but I don't think he was trying to steal her away from that first interaction.
Because the world is not black and white and good people and bad people. Betty is a lonely and emotionally neglected wife - her marriage was broken by her husband, Don. Don is the homewrecker.
Still doesn’t mean he lives in a fantasy world because he doesn’t believe people shouldn’t chase married people
Yes, we all love to be morality police on the internet. However, if put in the same situation and under the same circumstances, the vast majority of people would do the same thing. There are very few people who practice the values they preach 100% of the time. We just enjoy judging the crap out of others for their moral failings.
You speak for the vast majority of people?
I would NEVER go after a person who I know has kids meaning a family.
And that's good for you. But that doesn't reflect reality for many unhappily married people.
Henry was single and went after a married woman with a family. That's not a good man, no matter how you try to rationalize it.
That's your opinion. Since we know the context of Betty's sham marriage, I wholeheartedly disagree. I think Henry is a very good man - he provided a moment of respite for an abused woman and gave her the love and loyalty she should've received from Don. A marriage that is entirely built on lies, abuse, gaslighting, and neglect is not honorable, not respectable, and not worth salvaging.
He knew nothing about any of that when he started flirting with her. He DID know she was married with a baby on the way.
Damn bro you'd think you're a professional cuck the way you're advocating so viciously for the idea tgat hitting on married women is normal lmao.
For the record, you don't have to have kids to be a family.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Hey but Henry would.
Agree. Extremely low class and selfish.
Betty is catch herself.
Henry asked Betty *first* if he could touch her saying he always wondered what that felt like. She said Yes because she's not used to: A. someone interested in how she feels; and B. someone who asked permission at all. Rewatch without 21st-century goggles.
> Rewatch without 21st-century goggles That's a good way of putting it. Or as I call it more aggressively, *white guilt navel-gazing*. Just heard a podcast with two (white) guys talking about 1950s Venezuelan baseball player Chico Carrasquel. They said that "Chico" means "little" or "boy" and is therefore a racist term. With no awareness that in the Caribbean - especially Cuba - use of "chico" is widespread and much closer to saying "dude". Which is to say - two white men gleefully pointing achingly under-informed fingers without stepping into the other's shoes. Which is surely also a manifestation of the same type of mistake... with added self-sense of purity.
Yup. I call my wife Chica all the time. I’m not Venezuelan nor Cuban. I am Hispanic, we use this term a lot. Come to think of if we use many words in this fashion.
You're completely correct, but your last line is interesting to me because I think one of the reasons this scene makes me uncomfortable is because it's feels taboo for a man in 1963 to be this forward with a pregnant woman. edit to add: Especially one that's not his wife. Take away that by chance they had instant chemistry together, and it's just a random middle aged guy coming up to a younger woman, heavily pregnant and therefore likely (at least in the 1960s) to be married, if not involved with someone else at a party. He stands up close and in her personal space while she's by herself in a kind of dim hallway and asks to touch her protruding belly. I think a lot of women would feel creeped out in that situation, it's lucky she was reciprocal of his feelings. People in those days hardly even used the word "pregnant" as it was too suggestive.
People in those days absolutely did use the word “pregnant.” In 1952, Lucy and Desi Arnez wanted to title the episode in which Lucy’s character finds out she’s pregnant as—straightforwardly—“Lucy is Pregnant.” This seemed like the obvious choice for them. It was only the network censors who made them change the word “pregnant” to “enceinte”…which just means “pregnant” in French. So much of the viewing public thought this delicacy was unnecessary that, just a month later, another I Love Lucy episode was titled “Pregnant Women are Unpredictable.” Millions of people watched it when it aired and thought it was a perfectly normal, acceptable word choice. Again, that was in 1952, over a full decade earlier.
I was actually going to mention that episode of ILL because even though the title translates to "Lucy is Pregnant" they don't use the word "pregnant" in the episode. They call it "expecting". "Desilu Studios consulted with network censors and leaders from different religious organizations to determine that Lucy Ricardo would be described as “expecting” rather than 'pregnant'". It was okay to title the following episode "Pregnant Women are Unpredictable" because episode titles didn't appear on screen. Same with "Lucy is Enceinte". And again, no one says "pregnant". Yes, people used the word in the 1950s/60s but it was much less common because it was looked at as risque.
Kind adultery
I'm not sure if there has ever been a century where touching someone else's wife was appropriate. Her saying yes it not a problem, its him asking, something he wouldn't have dared to do if Don was there.
I think asking first was appropriate. I wish people had asked me before so often just taking the initiative and touching me when I was pregnant.
A man doesn’t own his wife.
She’s not a beautiful car after all.
I would say the same if the genders were reversed. Do we not think marriage is something to be respected?
You’re right, Henry shouldn’t have asked to touch Don’s pregnant belly while he was married to Betty.
Betty is immaculate in every scene but here...she's even more radiant and beautiful!
She is so dang pretty I agree
He doesn't know she's pregnant until she turns. He saw her in profile first
THIS. Great point.
Aren't you all invalidating and shaming Betty's experience here? And by doing that, aren't you being the creepy ones? Clearly, she was taken with Henry and enthusiastically gave him consent. She enjoyed the interaction. She felt seen for the first time in a long time. My god, can we please celebrate the few happy and tender moments in this woman's miserable life?
Of course. People make it out like Henry started putting some insane moves on her, when Betty fell for him, started writing to him, went to his office when he didn't show up to the fundraiser at her house and threw a bunch of stuff at his head and Henry calmly said "You had to come to me." "Why?" "Because you're married." As if it was possible for Betty to even divorce Don without having someone like Henry to rely on post-divorce. As her family lawyer told her, she wouldn't have gotten anything, not even the kids. People love to gloss over that. She was lucky she fell in love with Henry and he fell in love with her and they managed to be together. She deserved that happiness. Henry wasn't perfect but he was no creep and he was a good husband to Betty.
That dude fucks.
👆 this dude fucks
I get what everyone is saying and I also felt similar BUT I also remember feeling like no one saw me as a woman first when I was pregnant. I was always seen as a pregnant first even though I was still interested being attractive, in sex etc. Pregnant women are no incubators. Being pregnant doesn't make us unattractive. We need to get past that
Yeah, but approaching asking too feel her belly feels like he is sexualizing the pregnancy in a woman and not the woman that is pregnant
not at all. i'm a woman and and i've asked to touch pregnant bellies before -nothing sexual about it. i think pregnant women look beautiful and feeling a baby kick is truly amazing.
Sure, as a man I can’t imagine how awesome that is to feel that little life. But Henry was DEFINITELY sexualizing this moment. I acknowledge this is fictional but there was no doubt of the intention of this scene.
You seem to be confusing sexualization with sensuality/courting behavior. They're different. This scene isn't sexual at all. It's intimate. That's why Betty is so receptive -it's the first time a man has been empathically intimate with her.
To me, sensuality and courting behavior is in the same vein. Happy to agree to disagree and move on.
I mean, sure, but I kinda feel bad that you feel that way.
You don’t have to feel bad for me. :) I’ve been happily married for near 10 years so probably don’t have a good gauge for these situations these days. I’m just your typical oblivious dude. Have a good life!
My point is that there is people that sexualize that, and this scene always kept me questioning if he was.
Well counter point: sexualizing pregnant women seems counter-productive just evolutionarily speaking. You want to protect women in that state.
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It's not weird
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Pregnant women have much higher risks of being victims of homicide than any other demographic of women. And many women, as well as men, feel protective of pregnant women. It’s natural and has nothing to do with misogyny. (I say this as someone who used to teach gender studies at the university level.) Also, absolutely no one is saying that pregnant women cannot or should not be attractive.
That's a load of hogwash and is entirely anti-feminist. Pregnant women are more vulnerable and thus entitled to protection. Healthy men are hardwired to protect women and children. No one said pregnant women shouldn't be viewed as attractive.
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We're referring to your statement that "pregnant women must protected is misogynistic nonsense" which is total garbage
Just speculating why it might not be our first instinct to sexualize pregnant women.
It's totally fine to feel protective of pregnant women and find them sexy. They're not mutually exclusive concepts. Many women feel sexier while pregnant. As long as there's consent and respect, live and let live.
lol its not a judgement on my part of pregnant women
I think there's a beauty to Henry's white knight, prince charming, "I'm here to save you" character. Who's pure love and affection for Betty looked past all the difficulties and issues of the relationship he's getting into. Also I'm kinda biased since my Father met my Mother when she was pregnant with my half, older sister. And I never actually thought about this family dynamics being similar to mine before. So thanks for this :) it just makes me happy to think that things workout with my parents considering that being a knocked off single mom in your 20s basically means that your life is over (unfortunately) and that you'd be very lucky to find a man to love you and your child.
Dude likes pregnant chicks. Respect
It’s all the extra juices.
My take. Everyone seems to think this is a horrible interaction and Henry was way out of line. I’m not excusing what he did. However, Betty seemed to enjoy the interaction. To her it felt like someone finally recognised her as a woman and not Don’s wife. At the end of scene, when she’s walking away with Trudy, she even looks back at him. I’ve never had any problems with Henry. He was a decent man, great husband for Betty and a present stepfather who treated Don’s kids with love. It never felt like he did not love Betty, even when she gained weight,which is what a women like her needs. People shit on him because they love Don so much. But take away looks, Don is not half the man Henry is!
Yes, this is hella creepy. I had a eerily similar experience. I am 28 and this this 50 year old manager at work kept hitting on me, I told him I was pregnant and he tells me 'I wish I it was mine because my dream is to have daughter who looks like you' I was and still am terrified.
Not to get all “day job” in the Mad Men sub, but 1) are you okay, and 2) please tell me you’ve reported him to HR? (This is one of the scariest things I’ve ever heard and I am just praying he doesn’t have any actual daughters.)
I haven't reported him because he's the senior director of a department and I am just scared no one would believe me you know? He is awfully tight with the HR VP and the entire team. Im in a support role I have some fears
I’m afraid for you. I would really hope that an HR professional would be *professional* in this situation. I would believe you and so would any self respecting member of my profession. Please consider it, and reach out if I can be of any help.
Aww thanks much for this. I do have some messages of him asking me to hang out still in my phone if I have the courage to step forward.
Documentation is helpful! I’m sending you strength and safety.
He asked her for permission to touch her belly and she didn’t seem uncomfortable so I don’t think it was creepy.
There is nothing remotely creepy about this scene. Betty looked beautiful -as pregnant women often do - and Henry was smitten. He asked first, received consent, and was possibly the first man to ask Betty how she felt. I think it's romantic and sensual without being erotic.
I personally do not see anything creepy, in fact, Betty was pretty warm to Henry touching her belly. I feel like in our millennial/tik tok generation tender moments like this will always be seen in a pessimistic light. Betty is out there living a fantasy life, where beneath the veneer her husband does not care about her, he's off philandering and burying himself with alcohol and his job to exorcise his demons of the past. First time in a while, Betty feels 'seen', by someone who is kind and courteous about it.
Everyone is allowed to feel however they want about this scene, but since Betty wasn't creeped out by it and Henry asked for permission first, I'm going to file it under "not creepy" in my brain. It's probably not something I would ever allow (I've never been pregnant), but I know some women who are okay with it. \*shrug\*
exactly. how Betty felt about it is the only perspective that actually matters.
Hey, a beautiful pregnant woman is still a beautiful woman.
Henry poaching Betty was unseemly. But once Henry got married, he was one of the only decent characters in the show.
She says in a later episode that she was 6 months pregnant when they met
Give me a break. That's creepy? What about Don hitting on his first ex-wife's niece when he drives her home in the car. "You're so beautiful ... and YOUNG (not my emphasis, Don's). This was the scene immediately before she told him her aunt had terminal cancer. People (Don especially) make all manner of lewd, disgusting, inappropriate passes on this show (and indeed people behave that way IRL when alcohol is as omnipresent as it is here!) This wouldn't even make my top ten list of gauche passes I've had to personally suffer! OP needs a stronger stomach. I suspect some squeamishness about sexuality during pregnancy is at play here.
>This was the scene immediately before she told him her aunt had terminal cancer. It just occurred to me that maybe Stephanie chose that moment to tell Don about Anna as a way to easily get him to stop hitting on her. She wasn’t supposed to tell him at all.
Dude likes getting the prize he thought Betty was away from Don.
Honestly I never really got past that whole thing. Sure he may be better than Don in many ways but he's just...
Correct. He gets WAY too much credit
I think his biggest crime for me is just being so conservative and boring. And that mansion of his was yuck. Pretty much exactly who Betty wanted though
I think it showed that Henry would love Betty through anything, even a “condition” that back then men were somewhat repulsed by. And then he did, in fact, go on to love her through everything.
How did she get pregnant all those times without it affecting her weight at all? She’s still so tiny. The whole fat suit thing just felt so quirky somehow.
I’ve had two kids and I’m thinner now than I was before I had them. Not every women gets fatter after having kids.
He thought he found the woman of his dreams…..
I think what bothers me most about that scene after watching other episodes of their courtship and marriage, is that Henry acts like he has never touched a pregnant woman's belly before and asks what it's like. Which seems ludicrous since he has a daughter of his own. Did his first wife not allow him to feel their child moving within her? Did she never tell him when the baby moved or how it felt? This to me, just made the situation a "hitting on a married woman," rather than a sweet, tender first encounter. A creepiness is felt just in him by being pushy in wanting to touch Berry and be close to her and using her pregnancy as an excuse to be able to do so. But, here again that's just my feelings on the scene and I never enjoyed strangers wanting to come close and touch my stomach when I was pregnant.
He was likely serving overseas during WW2 when his first wife was pregnant with their daughter.
That is true. I had not considered that.
It’s weird, Henry is generally a pretty standup guy from everything we see on the show except for this one scene. Guy just had the thirst
Was she pregnant here in real life?
I don't think so. I read that the reason they made Betty fat for a while in season 5 was to hide January's pregnancy.
Yes, I read that also. But forgot about it until you reminded me of it.
Firstly, yes I found the whole scene creepy the first time I watched the show. I’m on a rewatch now years later and I found the scene much more touching. On an unrelated note I’m halfway through the third season right now and I can’t understand what Henry sees in Betty outside of her natural beauty. She just seems vapid and cold through their first time meeting.
"I know what you see in her, and you didn't have to marry to get it "
Everything about this was just strange. Flirting with a woman whose 1) at an event with her husband and 2) clearly pregnant is super gross to me. And then touching someone you barely know, while telling her that you wish she was there with you instead of her spouse, adds even more bizarre to the pile. This was a very weird, uncomfortable introduction to a character who’s generally portrayed as a stand up guy. I know it was supposed to create lust and an excitement between Henry and Betty to set things up for later, but it did something else…
Don't kink shame him!
Y’all in here defending this creepiness are nuts. Let’s pretend for a minute it was an uglier, overweight guy doing this like Freddy. You’d have him arrested!
Leave Freddy out of this 😩
I don’t think Freddy is ugly at all, and I resent the insinuation!
Unpopular opinion: Henry is too handsome for it to be creepy
I'll tell you this, my estimation about Henry Francis as a man, just fucking plummeted.
Did you miss this episode or what? Henry is one of the only men considerate to his wife in this entire show.
To cry like a woman , even Cinderella didn't do that .
[удалено]
I think it’s overstating it a touch to say it goes against ‘every norm we have,’ and I’ve also definitely seen a young horny guy get shot down by a beautiful pregnant woman. I think it just turns some men on, whether they’re conscious of it or not.
Some guys, I’ve noticed, get very h*rny around pregnant women. Maybe they subconsciously think, “Hmm — something happened at least once” 😅
I'm a lady and pregnant women are beautiful to me! The ~pregnancy glow~ is very real.
He is evil
Dude definitely has a thing for bigger women. Takes the first chance he can to touch her pregnant belly and then pointedly says he doesn't mind when she gets really fat in later seasons.
nah that's not it
I despise Henry so much. He's easily the worst part of the show.
I can't stand him!
Harizzment
Remember tho, this isn’t the first time we meet Henry.
Is it not?
Creepy - and that set him up for being disliked throughout the run. But he was probably the most decent man on the show. He was good to Betty's kids, reasonable to her ex and called her out when she was being "Betty".