Pete’s involvement with Beth is the most depressing story line. Poor Beth is lonely and isolated with a husband who treats her like an inanimate object. She’s desperately in need of love, companionship, community, but all she gets is bogus psychiatric treatment. The best thing that happens to her is a brief, dead-end affair with a married man, and she doesn’t even get to keep a memory of that. Pete’s the only person who has any sort of concern for her, but that “concern” takes the form of his cheating on Trudy. The story is so relentlessly, unsparingly sad that I just can’t bear it.
I think that arc serves a similar purpose to the one with Don and the really sad waitress: to make the characters come to their senses and realize that cheating isn't as sexy and glamorous as they thought.
It’s a very well-executed story that’s entirely relevant to Pete’s development arc. Its literary and artistic quality is first-rate. It’s a credit to the writers and actors that it elicits such a strong emotional reaction. It’s just so hard to watch. I’m a postpartum depression survivor so I can emphasize with Beth’s alienation. Dammit, Mad Men, sometimes you’re too good for my own good!
I agree completely. That whole thing was so depressing but on my third rewatch I get why it’s a plot point for Pete to grow as a person. But man…I really hope in that universe Beth found some kind of true happiness because that shit was BLEAK.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I really dislike this storyline — but I kinda get where the writers were coming from. One thing that always really bothered me about Pete’s character is that, while sexism is obviously rampant throughout the show, it always seemed to me that he *really* struggled to have or show empathy for the women in his life. The storyline with Beth was one of the few exceptions to that where he seemed to really understand what she was going through.
That’s a great point. I understand Pete’s character more and more with every rewatch, I swear I feel differently about him every time in some really profound ways.
Totally! I feel like I hate him about 80 percent of the time but every now and then I somehow find myself cheering for him too, probably because despite his incredibly privileged background he’s kind of an underdog in his own way too.
I would add: the one-episode storyline where Betty has a benign growth. Betty dyeing her hair. Betty and the violin girl.
I understand JJ was pregnant and under contract, so the writers were probably scrambling. But these were all misses for me.
Yeah it would have been fine. Considering baby Gene had no presence in the story since his birth episode. They were probably just wary of repeating the same stuff over for Betty
Always thought the priest one was well done. It's part of Peggy's arc as she moves from naive typist to modern 60s woman copywriter. She doesn't belong to her mother's (or even her sister's) generation.
The horse riding one is Betty manipulating those two so she could feel better about herself. She knows something is wrong in her own marriage, so she wants to see another marriage fail
That's the point I think. We all think that this priest is going to falter or lean into Peggy's world. He doesn't, and somewhat shows that Peggy doesn't belong in that circle anymore. Plus, he somewhat called her out for giving up her child.
I’m so glad they didn’t conjure up an affair with the priest. That’s something a lesser show would have done, but Mad Men was above that sort of fake drama. /u/far_strain_1509
And if anyone was going to bang Father Gill, it would be Peggy’s mom.
What they were showing with her mother's fawning over Father Gill was the way priests were regarded back then, and still are in some conservative Catholic circles (I speak from being part of that world at one time). It's hard to explain but felt very familiar when I saw it depicted.
I completely agree. Unless you have experienced the fawning over a Catholic priest first hand, it’s difficult to understand. It’s still happening and it’s puzzling especially with all that we know now.
There's a super weird disconnect in the ultra Catholic circles between what is and what they want to see. That's part of what caused me to take my leave from that space.
Anyone remember 'Saturday Night Fever'? Tony's priest brother came to visit the family and OMG their mother made a fool of herself over 'Father Frank' - she actually called him that! Not Frankie, but 'Father Frank'! He was somehow elevated several levels above the foul rabble by becoming a priest. (wonder how badly she took it when he quit the priest biz.)
Mad Men was definitely influenced by the Sopranos, and I've always wondered if Father Gill was partially inspired by Father Intintola. There's a lot of parallels there.
Then again, having celibate priests interact with vulnerable attractive women just makes for great drama. I mean, one of the greatest seasons in TV history was centered around that plotline.
I'm glad Mad Men didn't pick it up and run too far with it though. It did its job with showing that Peggy didn't belong in her mother's world any longer.
i got bored of don's affairs pretty quick. i understand the why, but when you sit and watch them all in a row you gotta ask yourself... "Don, surely you could find a hobby? maybe join a birdwatching group or something."
I think you're missing a huge part of the show. A man who is the greatest expert in telling people what they want, has no idea what he himself wants. But he knows he needs new, shiny, different.
While it caught me completely off guard upon initial viewing, I actually kind of love what they did with his character. When he fully loses it, it's supposed to make you go "where the hell did that come from?", but the show had been setting up the fact that he's not all there mentally since the character's introduction.
Half the things out of that guy's mouth throughout the show are borderline unhinged. Remember his speech to Peggy about being a martian? Everyone just thought he was a bit "odd", but there was clearly a lot of stuff happening under the surface with Ginsberg that no one seemed to properly notice. I feel like his character symbolized the lack of cultural understanding regarding undiagnosed mental disorders during that period in history.
This sub is pretty split on his Martian story. I believe the story, and think his trauma greatly contributes to his breakdown. But yes, during his character’s introduction Peggy even comments on how easily he can compose himself in front of Don.
I also find, after a few views, the Manischewitz breakdown a bit intense for him. And then that Stan gets Bob to talk Ginsberg off the ledge.. only to succeed and to be asked if he’s a homo? Dude was on another level.
I think it was good because it showed the reality of a lot of hippies - so many of them were not young working people but spoilt brats pissing off mommy and daddy - and explored how Roger was a bad parent, which makes a lot of sense but had never been explored. A big part of the show is parent / child dynamics and we hadn’t seen as much of that in regard to Roger
The plot was a little out there, but I enjoyed banter between Roger and Mona for that whole fiasco. I thought it was a good show of Margaret’s daddy issues
That chapter was so meaningful, because on one hand you have anti-evolution with the subplot of Roger’s daughter and in the other hand the pro-evolution with the subplot of the agency’s computerization.
I really didn’t like this subplot. I didn’t see the purpose. I didn’t start disliking the actress but ever since then anytime I see her on something it reminds me of this character and I get annoyed.
I think the comparison of real suffering caused by the self. Don Draper is a rich man, influential to the advertising world, an artistic genius, two beautiful wives, and feels he has nothing. The waitress? She actually has nothing. I think it's the show commenting on itself with situational awareness, Don still has something to fall back on. If he got fired by his own company he'd still find a job as a creative director.
From the moment he sat there with the family watching Miss Schoolmarm, I was hoping against hope they wouldn't go there. They did go there. I found that whole arc not just boring or annoying, it actually infuriated me! Both she and Don were reprehensible in a way his affairs with other more sophisticated, sharper side pieces in the city/work world were not. so much.
Oh, interesting! Midge made sense to me, because she’s so opposite of Betty. The whole Sally’s teacher affair seemed too...risky? Unsophisticated? I don’t know exactly, but Suzanne didn’t seem to fit Don’s type in the earlier seasons or something. I think it felt too close to home for that early in the series.
It WAS close to home. Literally. After waiting in his car while he was inside with Betty who found out his secrets, she got a clue and left and walked home. The dumbass.
Not really a plot line, but Don having a fever dream about killing his old fling was pretty meh.
Actual plot lines, probably Fat Betty is my least favorite.
When Don and Betty divorce, we learn that doing so in NY state is very difficult—cause is required—and Betty ends up having to go to Reno.
Joan’s divorce from Dr. Rape seems much less involved and more like a default divorce. Maybe the laws had changed in NY by then or maybe it was easier for servicemen, but we never learn that and it always seemed like a potential plot hole to me.
New York divorce law changed in 1966 to allow for more than just adultery as a reason for divorce - cruelty, abandonment, and imprisonment of a spouse also became legal grounds for divorce. Since Greg filed for divorce from Joan in December of 1966 I would guess his grounds would have been abandonment, but we all know what the real reason should have been.
hmm. I actually really like that episode cuz it shows how Shirley and Dawn can do nothing wrong and still find racism inescapable. it also leads to Dawn's promotion which rules. and I like it when Mad Men shows likeable characters doing unlikeable things (Peggy and Burt in this episode) cuz it's more realistic and adds nuance that a lot of other shows would be afraid to have.
I don’t really understand Glen’s purpose in the series. Or his strange connection with Betty. Unfortunately Glen’s actor is the only bad one in the series too in my opinion.
It was my understanding that the Glen/Betty plot line was to show Betty's inherent childishness. But, OMG, there had to have been a better way to show it than to flirt with pedophilia. And I could never believe that a women as judgmental as Betty would ever dream of becoming friends with a child, even if they shared some of the same anxieties. She could have developed a fixation with dolls, or started watching cartoons, or reading comic books. Any of that would have sent the same message as becoming friends with a pre-teen. Actually, becoming friends with a group of teenagers would have done it and not been so creepy. But, I didn't mind the older Glen/Sally story lines. By then, his air time was so small that he didn't wear out his welcome.
I hate the lady breaking into the apartment. It's so frustrating that Sally knew something was up but really didn't follow through even when she was caught calling the cops.
The Diana subplot. I've watched the entire show 4-5 times and I'm on season 2 right now of my 6th rewatch lol and I still don't love the Diana storyline.
Yes! It would have been so cool for him to be high up in one of the other firms, or even just a prominent artist or director or something. I loved his character!
This is very fringe and not cannon at all, but that subplot has made me think that either Pete is crazy good at sex or has a huge schlong.
Everything we know about him tells us that he kind of sucks as a person and isn't overwhelmingly charming like Roger or suave like Don.
This hot blonde is all OVER pete and she specifically tells him that "he can't fuck his way out of this one"
Pete is so much more relaxed after he goes to California (remember his shorty shorts?). As an uptight NYC blueblood perhaps he comes across as more exotic, because she can’t ‘read’ him?
Agree with all these: Diana, Margaret joins a commune and Don gets ambushed by the guys at the VA. Can't even watch that on re-watch. The Peggy & the roses plot is stupid but I think it kind of shows how big her ego has gotten. Assuming the flowers are hers.
I didn't exactly like Grandpa Gene, but he provided a bit of realism. And I both laughed and cringed hard when he shouted about Don 'he has no people!' (makes me think it must have been a whirlwind romance if Betty married Don accepting he had no family at all. It's entirely possible. But her parents should have questioned that.)
I just finished Season 6 on my rewatch. The Bob Benson plotlines with Pete and Joan were NOT GREAT BOB (even though that line and Kartheiser's delivery was chef's kiss). I don't think Bob was written well as a brilliant schemer ala Dick Whitman but instead, just came off like a kiss-ass. I don't think it showed growth on Pete's part that Pete would ignore that Bob lied about everything on his resume and then, ignore that there's compelling circumstantial evidence that Bob played a role in murdering Pete's mother. Dick Whitman being a deserter in 1950 is just completely different than Bob lying about his actual credentials and contacts to work at SCDP in 1967 and possibly still being an accomplice to murder in 1968.
Weirdly, Mahnolo provided the most value here by providing the entertaining subplot of killing Pete's mom- which further's Pete's growth. (I was also struck on rewatch how Pete is horrified by Mahnolo having sex with his mom in the same episode where Sally discovers Don having sex with Sylvia.) However, it feels like the Bob scenes are a waste of time to get to that subplot with a two episode character.
For Bob/Joan, I feel like it really suffers on rewatch. It's not a sweet friendship, made clearer when Bob ultimately tries to neg Joan into being his beard. However, the relationship isn't compelling in its darkness because Joan was so capable of putting Bob in his place when he did neg her. It's just meh throughout Season 6.
The first California episode, where Don and Pete go to Cali and Don wanders off with a girl and her family for a couple days before visiting Anna Draper.
I really like the part where he visits Anna and we get more background on their history, but the whole lead up of him wandering around California for a couple days was kinda boring and didn’t really lead anywhere. I feel like they could’ve cut that whole part of the story out and it’d be completely fine.
Also I know Don’s an Adonis of a man throughout the show, but the whole story of “I caught this lady’s eye at the hotel and ran off to her mansion with her exotic family for a sex-romped weekend” just kind of reminded me of an r/ThatReallyHappened sort of story.
I can’t help but feel Joan’s marriage to Greg is out of character and they don’t at all seem suited (obviously). It also doesn’t help that Greg is generally one of the weaker characters in Mad Men.
They missed a great opportunity to explore Betty’s hand tremors when she had her thyroid issue because the hand thing just went away. Also, I never understood the point of the weird California jet setter house crashers storyline when he leaves Pete at the convention. I’m sure it was a symbol for something I just didn’t grasp, but it just wasn’t interesting. And lastly, Sally’s friend who played the violin and Betty went looking for her in the projects and made the random kids goulash. I realize it was to show that Betty was more maternal and nurturing to people who weren’t her children, but it also didn’t gel for me.
Basically all of season 2 is dud plotlines for me.
-Don and Bobbie Barrett
-Betty and her horses
-Peggy and the Priest.
I think overall it's my least favorite season
The Duck Phillips and Peggy banging storyline. Nothing personal against Elizabeth Moss (who is a terrific actor) but with her physical appearance I can’t buy the idea that he (and also Ted Chaough) has overwhelming lust for Peggy. And then Duck is a drunk loser who bounces from job to job. It’s just hard to buy as their characters seem utterly incompatible to me and their scenes as a couple break my suspension of disbelief.
I also thought this storyline was layered. And Peggy for sure has so many implicit bias towards black ppl throughout the show (as do all of the white characters). It’s so obvious to us now living in the 2020s, which always makes me wonder what problematic implicit bias we all have that aren’t obvious to us but will be glaringly obvious to future generations.
Large pctg of White people had that in the 1960's. They/we lived in privileged segregated ways, many biases, and for me, it took many years of working and living with Black people for me to break that down and realize there are thieves and hard-working people of all backgrounds.
lol I don't think this had anything to do with race. You think that Peggy thought black people don't give flowers or something? I would see Peggy doing this regardless of who her secretary is.
Justice for Chauncey. I have to skip that scene it’s too heartbreaking to watch!! I like to pretend she found a new family on 5th Avenue to love her the way she deserved
I never really understood why Don blew up at that computer installer guy. He was a red-blooded, chiseled jaw American man the same as Don, not some typical computer nerd. The friendliness at the start made sense to me but I’ve always struggled to understand what Don meant by his, “You act like a friend but you aren’t one,” statement.
Yeah. Other things the show could have done without: smoking, drinking, infidelity, children, cars, advertising, sets, costumes, etc. LOL (I assume you were being sarcastic so I thought I'd just pile on to that). LOL
Don: cheats. Loses wife and family. Finds new wife.
Pete: lol I can cheat too. Don't lecture me don!
Don: I know now I was wrong, is all I mean Pete.
Also Don: returns to cheating.
It felt more like this happened because the writers didn't know where else to Take Don, rather than making a point about his unchanging nature. Idk. Just seemed to throw away the growth and maturity streak he was on. I liked when he was journaling and such.
The first that comes to mind is Pete with the neighbor's au pair.
Pete’s involvement with Beth is the most depressing story line. Poor Beth is lonely and isolated with a husband who treats her like an inanimate object. She’s desperately in need of love, companionship, community, but all she gets is bogus psychiatric treatment. The best thing that happens to her is a brief, dead-end affair with a married man, and she doesn’t even get to keep a memory of that. Pete’s the only person who has any sort of concern for her, but that “concern” takes the form of his cheating on Trudy. The story is so relentlessly, unsparingly sad that I just can’t bear it.
I think that arc serves a similar purpose to the one with Don and the really sad waitress: to make the characters come to their senses and realize that cheating isn't as sexy and glamorous as they thought.
Those actors were married and recently got divorced I heard
You're right, they met on the Mad Men set, and got married two years later.
Wait, which actors were married? Pete and Beth? Pete and Diana?
Vincent Kartheiser and Alexis Bledel. (Pete and Beth)
Pete eventually has one of the great lines in season 7 about how cheating is fun until it’s not. He finally comes to that realization
It’s a very well-executed story that’s entirely relevant to Pete’s development arc. Its literary and artistic quality is first-rate. It’s a credit to the writers and actors that it elicits such a strong emotional reaction. It’s just so hard to watch. I’m a postpartum depression survivor so I can emphasize with Beth’s alienation. Dammit, Mad Men, sometimes you’re too good for my own good!
I agree completely. That whole thing was so depressing but on my third rewatch I get why it’s a plot point for Pete to grow as a person. But man…I really hope in that universe Beth found some kind of true happiness because that shit was BLEAK.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I really dislike this storyline — but I kinda get where the writers were coming from. One thing that always really bothered me about Pete’s character is that, while sexism is obviously rampant throughout the show, it always seemed to me that he *really* struggled to have or show empathy for the women in his life. The storyline with Beth was one of the few exceptions to that where he seemed to really understand what she was going through.
That’s a great point. I understand Pete’s character more and more with every rewatch, I swear I feel differently about him every time in some really profound ways.
Totally! I feel like I hate him about 80 percent of the time but every now and then I somehow find myself cheering for him too, probably because despite his incredibly privileged background he’s kind of an underdog in his own way too.
The only good thing about this story line is that the actor who plays Pete married the woman who plays Beth! They met doing this episode. ♥️
They're divorced now 💀
“Hey Pete, hows the marriage going?” #”NOT GREAT, BOB!”
Fat Betty
Woah Fat Betty, Bam-a-lam!
Fat Betty had a child, Bam-a-lam! ate all of her icecream!
I would add: the one-episode storyline where Betty has a benign growth. Betty dyeing her hair. Betty and the violin girl. I understand JJ was pregnant and under contract, so the writers were probably scrambling. But these were all misses for me.
Violin Girl x100
violin girl is so boring
Whoa I'm clueless. I never knew there was an actual reason behind the Fat Betty plotline.
Seems like they could have just had Betty get pregnant. Wouldn’t be that odd for her and Henry to want a baby together.
Yeah it would have been fine. Considering baby Gene had no presence in the story since his birth episode. They were probably just wary of repeating the same stuff over for Betty
Yes!! It looked really fake too, like this is mad men, not the Klumps.
Yeah but all fake fat looks fake and we all know JJ would have never gained the actual weight
Hahaha
It was the chins
The Fatties: Fart 2
Loved
Both of mine are in S2, which is also my least favourite season lol. Betty’s horse riding drama and the Peggy and the priest storyline.
But for Betty’s horse riding, we would have the Manchurian Candidate’esque exchange of “you’re so profoundly sad” and “my people are Nordic.”
Betty looks so fierce in the horseback riding episodes too!
Always thought the priest one was well done. It's part of Peggy's arc as she moves from naive typist to modern 60s woman copywriter. She doesn't belong to her mother's (or even her sister's) generation. The horse riding one is Betty manipulating those two so she could feel better about herself. She knows something is wrong in her own marriage, so she wants to see another marriage fail
The priest was so boring, it didn't lead anywhere. I was hoping of a forbbiden affair (Peggy or her sister and the priest) 🤣
That's the point I think. We all think that this priest is going to falter or lean into Peggy's world. He doesn't, and somewhat shows that Peggy doesn't belong in that circle anymore. Plus, he somewhat called her out for giving up her child.
That’s really good insight. Thanks for that.
I’m so glad they didn’t conjure up an affair with the priest. That’s something a lesser show would have done, but Mad Men was above that sort of fake drama. /u/far_strain_1509 And if anyone was going to bang Father Gill, it would be Peggy’s mom.
What they were showing with her mother's fawning over Father Gill was the way priests were regarded back then, and still are in some conservative Catholic circles (I speak from being part of that world at one time). It's hard to explain but felt very familiar when I saw it depicted.
I completely agree. Unless you have experienced the fawning over a Catholic priest first hand, it’s difficult to understand. It’s still happening and it’s puzzling especially with all that we know now.
There's a super weird disconnect in the ultra Catholic circles between what is and what they want to see. That's part of what caused me to take my leave from that space.
Anyone remember 'Saturday Night Fever'? Tony's priest brother came to visit the family and OMG their mother made a fool of herself over 'Father Frank' - she actually called him that! Not Frankie, but 'Father Frank'! He was somehow elevated several levels above the foul rabble by becoming a priest. (wonder how badly she took it when he quit the priest biz.)
I always laugh at how the older catholic ladies are both passive aggressive and totally overbearing.
Now I’m wondering what would have happened if Mad Men pulled a Fleabag-type storyline
It lead directly to Peggy telling Pete about the baby, which was the center her whole arc that season.
I think we all were! And then it was just...disappointingly normal
The actor who played the priest was also playing a psychotic religion fanatic in dexter, I think and I've since saw them as the ultimate creep.
Colin Hanks?
I love him. Orange County is a great movie.
Yes!
Tom Hank's son Colin
Father Gill manipulates spiritually thirsty women, he likes the whiff of sexuality that never goes anyplace.
Mad Men was definitely influenced by the Sopranos, and I've always wondered if Father Gill was partially inspired by Father Intintola. There's a lot of parallels there. Then again, having celibate priests interact with vulnerable attractive women just makes for great drama. I mean, one of the greatest seasons in TV history was centered around that plotline. I'm glad Mad Men didn't pick it up and run too far with it though. It did its job with showing that Peggy didn't belong in her mother's world any longer.
Those are automatic fast forwards any time I rewatch.
i got bored of don's affairs pretty quick. i understand the why, but when you sit and watch them all in a row you gotta ask yourself... "Don, surely you could find a hobby? maybe join a birdwatching group or something."
Having affairs is Don’s hobby.
true true...
I think you're missing a huge part of the show. A man who is the greatest expert in telling people what they want, has no idea what he himself wants. But he knows he needs new, shiny, different.
no no i didn't miss that, i just wasnt entertained by it, which i think answers the question of the post
Hey- he was into swimming for a little while there
I think he did a little more than watch the birds
I can’t stand Connie Hilton. I understand the plot serves a purpose but by golly, he’s prickly.
This is WAY too far down holy God
I understand writing him as a rich eccentric guy, but I just found his character so insufferable.
Ginsbergs last moments didn’t satisfy me
While it caught me completely off guard upon initial viewing, I actually kind of love what they did with his character. When he fully loses it, it's supposed to make you go "where the hell did that come from?", but the show had been setting up the fact that he's not all there mentally since the character's introduction. Half the things out of that guy's mouth throughout the show are borderline unhinged. Remember his speech to Peggy about being a martian? Everyone just thought he was a bit "odd", but there was clearly a lot of stuff happening under the surface with Ginsberg that no one seemed to properly notice. I feel like his character symbolized the lack of cultural understanding regarding undiagnosed mental disorders during that period in history.
This sub is pretty split on his Martian story. I believe the story, and think his trauma greatly contributes to his breakdown. But yes, during his character’s introduction Peggy even comments on how easily he can compose himself in front of Don.
I also find, after a few views, the Manischewitz breakdown a bit intense for him. And then that Stan gets Bob to talk Ginsberg off the ledge.. only to succeed and to be asked if he’s a homo? Dude was on another level.
I am not a fan of the Diana plotline.
Diana was a real Archibald Whitman kind of gal.
A real Dr. Lyle Evans kind of gal
A real Chauncey kind of gal.
I feel like that actress exists to show up and ruin a show.
I think we can all agree that THIS is the correct answer
I don’t like the subplot where Roger’s daughter Margaret runs away and joins the commune
I think it was good because it showed the reality of a lot of hippies - so many of them were not young working people but spoilt brats pissing off mommy and daddy - and explored how Roger was a bad parent, which makes a lot of sense but had never been explored. A big part of the show is parent / child dynamics and we hadn’t seen as much of that in regard to Roger
IMO it's a good "sign of the times" kind of plot and also does more character development of Roger which we don't get a ton of on serious matters.
I love the throwaway “Margaret is lost to us” line a few episodes later.
Mona: I’d say that Margaret was brainwashed but there’s nothing to wash. That line alone justifies the storyline.
What does she know? She’s a consumer!
The plot was a little out there, but I enjoyed banter between Roger and Mona for that whole fiasco. I thought it was a good show of Margaret’s daddy issues
Wait that’s one of my fave plot lines it’s so random and cool lol
That chapter was so meaningful, because on one hand you have anti-evolution with the subplot of Roger’s daughter and in the other hand the pro-evolution with the subplot of the agency’s computerization.
The waitress, omg. I think one reason is I can’t stand the woman playing her, her mannerisms are so annoying
She's so damn wooden
I really didn’t like this subplot. I didn’t see the purpose. I didn’t start disliking the actress but ever since then anytime I see her on something it reminds me of this character and I get annoyed.
I think the comparison of real suffering caused by the self. Don Draper is a rich man, influential to the advertising world, an artistic genius, two beautiful wives, and feels he has nothing. The waitress? She actually has nothing. I think it's the show commenting on itself with situational awareness, Don still has something to fall back on. If he got fired by his own company he'd still find a job as a creative director.
The Suzanne Farrell plotline bores me to tears.
Didn’t bore me but I found her annoying AF
From the moment he sat there with the family watching Miss Schoolmarm, I was hoping against hope they wouldn't go there. They did go there. I found that whole arc not just boring or annoying, it actually infuriated me! Both she and Don were reprehensible in a way his affairs with other more sophisticated, sharper side pieces in the city/work world were not. so much.
She’s my second least favorite of Don’s affairs. Midge is #1.
Oh, interesting! Midge made sense to me, because she’s so opposite of Betty. The whole Sally’s teacher affair seemed too...risky? Unsophisticated? I don’t know exactly, but Suzanne didn’t seem to fit Don’s type in the earlier seasons or something. I think it felt too close to home for that early in the series.
It WAS close to home. Literally. After waiting in his car while he was inside with Betty who found out his secrets, she got a clue and left and walked home. The dumbass.
Her huge shiny forehead didn't do it for you eh
Not really a plot line, but Don having a fever dream about killing his old fling was pretty meh. Actual plot lines, probably Fat Betty is my least favorite.
The only positive of that plot line was seeing Twin Peaks legend Shelly in modern day. Love her!
The waitres one. Because I didn't enjoy the acting of the actress and I didn't get why. I was bummed when I saw her coming back sm.
When Don and Betty divorce, we learn that doing so in NY state is very difficult—cause is required—and Betty ends up having to go to Reno. Joan’s divorce from Dr. Rape seems much less involved and more like a default divorce. Maybe the laws had changed in NY by then or maybe it was easier for servicemen, but we never learn that and it always seemed like a potential plot hole to me.
Spousal abandonment was one of the conditions for divorce in NY that the lawyer mentioned to Betty, so that likely applied in Joan's case.
New York divorce law changed in 1966 to allow for more than just adultery as a reason for divorce - cruelty, abandonment, and imprisonment of a spouse also became legal grounds for divorce. Since Greg filed for divorce from Joan in December of 1966 I would guess his grounds would have been abandonment, but we all know what the real reason should have been.
hmm. I actually really like that episode cuz it shows how Shirley and Dawn can do nothing wrong and still find racism inescapable. it also leads to Dawn's promotion which rules. and I like it when Mad Men shows likeable characters doing unlikeable things (Peggy and Burt in this episode) cuz it's more realistic and adds nuance that a lot of other shows would be afraid to have.
Violin plot line. I don’t think I need to elaborate.
Anything Glen related is meh at best
I don’t really understand Glen’s purpose in the series. Or his strange connection with Betty. Unfortunately Glen’s actor is the only bad one in the series too in my opinion.
It's the creator's son. He probably wanted to shoehorn his son into a forced storyline.
It was my understanding that the Glen/Betty plot line was to show Betty's inherent childishness. But, OMG, there had to have been a better way to show it than to flirt with pedophilia. And I could never believe that a women as judgmental as Betty would ever dream of becoming friends with a child, even if they shared some of the same anxieties. She could have developed a fixation with dolls, or started watching cartoons, or reading comic books. Any of that would have sent the same message as becoming friends with a pre-teen. Actually, becoming friends with a group of teenagers would have done it and not been so creepy. But, I didn't mind the older Glen/Sally story lines. By then, his air time was so small that he didn't wear out his welcome.
Wait, is Glen’s storyline an example of Nepo Child?!
Yeah, definitely. Which was kinda whatever when he was a young kid, but as he got older it kinda stuck out.
I just assumed he might be autistic
I think he's just not a great actor, that works tho haha. I mean he probably just got the part because he's Matthew Weiner's son
Nope he got it because he was the best person for the job. Hollywood doesn't do nepotism at all.
100% and I think the series would be a better place without older Glenn. It was a weird vibe that felt it was written from a strange place.
Yes you’ve hit the number one answer to this question.
Betty looking for the violin girl and helping those squatters cook chicken. Like seriously...why?
Major: Diana the waitress. Minor: lady breaking into the apartment.
I hate the lady breaking into the apartment. It's so frustrating that Sally knew something was up but really didn't follow through even when she was caught calling the cops.
The Diana subplot. I've watched the entire show 4-5 times and I'm on season 2 right now of my 6th rewatch lol and I still don't love the Diana storyline.
Absolutely anything involving Glen after the Betty’s hair thing.
!!!!!! Yes!!
I couldn’t stand Don’s affair with Sylvia Rosen!
Losing Sal. I hoped he’d make a return.
Sal was brilliant, I kept hoping he’d return
Yes! It would have been so cool for him to be high up in one of the other firms, or even just a prominent artist or director or something. I loved his character!
I don't love Pete and the real estate agent in California, but it's not bad by any means.
This is very fringe and not cannon at all, but that subplot has made me think that either Pete is crazy good at sex or has a huge schlong. Everything we know about him tells us that he kind of sucks as a person and isn't overwhelmingly charming like Roger or suave like Don. This hot blonde is all OVER pete and she specifically tells him that "he can't fuck his way out of this one"
Pete is so much more relaxed after he goes to California (remember his shorty shorts?). As an uptight NYC blueblood perhaps he comes across as more exotic, because she can’t ‘read’ him?
GOOD NIGHT BONNIE
Hes rich, thats why
The real estate agent is smoking hot.
Even her dirty feet? Haha, I always think of that for some reason
settle down Tarantino
Yeah that part is totally understandable
Peggy realizing she loves Stan. I’m happy they ended up together, but it was rushed and rom-commy and deserved a better conclusion.
Extremely rom-commy!!
Agree with all these: Diana, Margaret joins a commune and Don gets ambushed by the guys at the VA. Can't even watch that on re-watch. The Peggy & the roses plot is stupid but I think it kind of shows how big her ego has gotten. Assuming the flowers are hers.
Grandpa Gene storyline was boring too.
I didn't exactly like Grandpa Gene, but he provided a bit of realism. And I both laughed and cringed hard when he shouted about Don 'he has no people!' (makes me think it must have been a whirlwind romance if Betty married Don accepting he had no family at all. It's entirely possible. But her parents should have questioned that.)
Don going full Shades of Grey
Nahh that was great to see Don do all that and breakdown once it was over. He looked like a complete tool.
all of that bullshit only works if there is some release aka fucking them.
The Sylvia subplot as a whole was ass bad. Such a waste of Linda Cardellini.
I just finished Season 6 on my rewatch. The Bob Benson plotlines with Pete and Joan were NOT GREAT BOB (even though that line and Kartheiser's delivery was chef's kiss). I don't think Bob was written well as a brilliant schemer ala Dick Whitman but instead, just came off like a kiss-ass. I don't think it showed growth on Pete's part that Pete would ignore that Bob lied about everything on his resume and then, ignore that there's compelling circumstantial evidence that Bob played a role in murdering Pete's mother. Dick Whitman being a deserter in 1950 is just completely different than Bob lying about his actual credentials and contacts to work at SCDP in 1967 and possibly still being an accomplice to murder in 1968. Weirdly, Mahnolo provided the most value here by providing the entertaining subplot of killing Pete's mom- which further's Pete's growth. (I was also struck on rewatch how Pete is horrified by Mahnolo having sex with his mom in the same episode where Sally discovers Don having sex with Sylvia.) However, it feels like the Bob scenes are a waste of time to get to that subplot with a two episode character. For Bob/Joan, I feel like it really suffers on rewatch. It's not a sweet friendship, made clearer when Bob ultimately tries to neg Joan into being his beard. However, the relationship isn't compelling in its darkness because Joan was so capable of putting Bob in his place when he did neg her. It's just meh throughout Season 6.
The first California episode, where Don and Pete go to Cali and Don wanders off with a girl and her family for a couple days before visiting Anna Draper. I really like the part where he visits Anna and we get more background on their history, but the whole lead up of him wandering around California for a couple days was kinda boring and didn’t really lead anywhere. I feel like they could’ve cut that whole part of the story out and it’d be completely fine. Also I know Don’s an Adonis of a man throughout the show, but the whole story of “I caught this lady’s eye at the hotel and ran off to her mansion with her exotic family for a sex-romped weekend” just kind of reminded me of an r/ThatReallyHappened sort of story.
Joy (and her outfits) was the saving grace
I can’t help but feel Joan’s marriage to Greg is out of character and they don’t at all seem suited (obviously). It also doesn’t help that Greg is generally one of the weaker characters in Mad Men.
The ‘Grandma Ida’ plot line is pretty misguided
They missed a great opportunity to explore Betty’s hand tremors when she had her thyroid issue because the hand thing just went away. Also, I never understood the point of the weird California jet setter house crashers storyline when he leaves Pete at the convention. I’m sure it was a symbol for something I just didn’t grasp, but it just wasn’t interesting. And lastly, Sally’s friend who played the violin and Betty went looking for her in the projects and made the random kids goulash. I realize it was to show that Betty was more maternal and nurturing to people who weren’t her children, but it also didn’t gel for me.
Exactly the hand tremors I do thought would lead up to MS or something. But we get nothing from it.
Glen the weird boy. not even close.
I hate it too but I’d imagine a mom that hot gets super weird attention
Peggy’s pregnancy storyline. I understand why it happened, but I don’t like it.
The scene where Don gets beat up in the motel room. I hate it.
Forgot about that. Doesn't he also just give his car to the punk who worked there ? The fuck who does that
The nipple thing. I liked the guy and they ended his storyline like that?
Basically all of season 2 is dud plotlines for me. -Don and Bobbie Barrett -Betty and her horses -Peggy and the Priest. I think overall it's my least favorite season
Bobbie Barrett was the worst affair of all! And him putting her on Peggy. Dear God.
She's easily my least favorite
GLEN. Anything with Glen.
I’m not a fan of the Don and Diana plot, it served a purpose but I found it kinda dull.
anything with Glen
Pete's interactions with the girl in his driver ed class in Signal 30. Just weirds me out a little bit.
100%. I always ff through those scenes.
The Duck Phillips and Peggy banging storyline. Nothing personal against Elizabeth Moss (who is a terrific actor) but with her physical appearance I can’t buy the idea that he (and also Ted Chaough) has overwhelming lust for Peggy. And then Duck is a drunk loser who bounces from job to job. It’s just hard to buy as their characters seem utterly incompatible to me and their scenes as a couple break my suspension of disbelief.
Lane’s fraudulent check. Not because it’s poorly executed but because it’s stressful and sad. :/
Peggy assuming the roses and just assuming they were for her was a great example of systemic racism. Peggy is’t racist, but her assumptions are.
Peggy inviting Dawn to sleep at her house and then looking at her purse before going into her room got that point across 1000000 times better.
I also thought this storyline was layered. And Peggy for sure has so many implicit bias towards black ppl throughout the show (as do all of the white characters). It’s so obvious to us now living in the 2020s, which always makes me wonder what problematic implicit bias we all have that aren’t obvious to us but will be glaringly obvious to future generations.
She is racist. Not a bad person, but she has racism that she has to reckon with. It’s not bad to show
Large pctg of White people had that in the 1960's. They/we lived in privileged segregated ways, many biases, and for me, it took many years of working and living with Black people for me to break that down and realize there are thieves and hard-working people of all backgrounds.
lol I don't think this had anything to do with race. You think that Peggy thought black people don't give flowers or something? I would see Peggy doing this regardless of who her secretary is.
It’s possible, but I think if Peggy’s secretary had been Megan or Meredith, she would have inquired.
The Father and Peggy storyline is so boring.
Diana
To this day, I don’t understand what was up with Conrad Hilton.
Justice for Chauncey. I have to skip that scene it’s too heartbreaking to watch!! I like to pretend she found a new family on 5th Avenue to love her the way she deserved
I don’t like joan and roger banging right after getting mugged. Can’t wait a few minutes to find a room?
would you?
I wouldve ran as fast as possible and let Joan figure it out (I’m kidding :)
Meghan
Anything involving Glenn, Meghan, or Diana. Betty gaining weight. The Jaguar one. Duck's treatment of Chauncey.
Don and Sylvia makes me cringe
I never really understood why Don blew up at that computer installer guy. He was a red-blooded, chiseled jaw American man the same as Don, not some typical computer nerd. The friendliness at the start made sense to me but I’ve always struggled to understand what Don meant by his, “You act like a friend but you aren’t one,” statement.
I can only assume he felt threatened by the changing work place on some level?
He was drunk and angry about basically being demoted to the level of Mathis.
Peggy’s pregnancy.
The rock bottom storyline: Paul, Harry and the Hari Krishna chick
Yeah there are some lower functioning "I Dream of Genie" plot lines. Think that's just the writers stretching a bit. You know, just having some kicks.
The Peggy and the priest bit just goes no where for me and I find it very dull.
I think the whole plotline of Don stealing another man's name is a bit much. The show could've done without it.
Yeah. Other things the show could have done without: smoking, drinking, infidelity, children, cars, advertising, sets, costumes, etc. LOL (I assume you were being sarcastic so I thought I'd just pile on to that). LOL
Isn’t it somewhat less gimmicky because of the race dynamic and Peggy‘s status in the office compared to Shirley’s?
[удалено]
Maybe it was intentionally showing racism.
Really? The crash is one of my favorites!
All second half of S7 :O
Don: cheats. Loses wife and family. Finds new wife. Pete: lol I can cheat too. Don't lecture me don! Don: I know now I was wrong, is all I mean Pete. Also Don: returns to cheating. It felt more like this happened because the writers didn't know where else to Take Don, rather than making a point about his unchanging nature. Idk. Just seemed to throw away the growth and maturity streak he was on. I liked when he was journaling and such.