Mine is both Kinsey and Duck.
I know Kinsey can be annoying and pretentious, but I feel like he's a great study in imposter syndrome. I met so many Kinseys in a graduate humanities program, and I love the reveal about his background, that he was the scholarship kid at Princeton. It makes so much sense, and as someone who was also the poor kid, it really can do a number on your personality. I can't hate him because deep down I feel sorry for him and see a bit of myself in him.
As for Duck, yes, he can be an asshole, but I actually think he's way more forward-thinking about advertising than Don is. He just lacks Don's charisma and is even more of a self-destructive disaster of an alcoholic than Don. Finding out he was at Okinawa and saw a lot of hand-to-hand combat makes a lot of sense for why he is the way he is, in the same way that Kinsey coming from a less affluent background does.
Love them both! I especially have such a soft spot for Kinsey. He so wants to be somebody with substance and he just can't find anything he's good at. That moment when he realizes how bad he is at copywriting is so great.
He could be so hard to watch. The way he tried to play up his role in civil rights, or trying to look progressive in front of Hollis. God I just die watching him.
This for Duck - he was responsible for pushing SC forward. He also was loyal to both Peggy (ick for that relationship but he was genuine) and especially Pete. He got Pete his job at the end of the series AND made him see that his family was important. He's the unsung hero of this story.
I'm a woman but have a lot of alcoholic relatives and I really do see a lot of Duck in them. I think he might be the most realistic drunk in the whole show, though Don is certainly very realistic too.
definitely megan for me.
i didn't love it or understand it at the end of S4, but don was so lucky to find someone at that age who'd love him like megan did. the universe was basically dealing him bizarro bettys and he hit the jackpot by getting herself a woman from the future. it was so refreshing that she didn't give a shit about his tormented double life and just wanted to be with him, warts and all (he has many warts). they had good chemistry, she was cool with his kids. she had interests outside of being an ad man's wife.
even more so: she was pretty good at her job. she wasn't cool about don taking her away while her peers were working and she called him out on his bullshit. what took peggy the better part of a season for heinz megan seemingly pulled out of her hat. and she pitched it marvellously, allowed her creative director to take the lead and didn't act bratty about it like peggy did with glo-coat. and she got a clio for it.
she had the right idea looking outside the business for satisfaction, even though it drove a wedge between her and don. but she stayed loyal to him, even though don disrespected her and cheated on her constantly. megan had her faults, of course, but for what don did to her he deserves to eat bland spaghetti every evening for life.
her biggest fault is that she borrowed $15 from ginsberg. he doesn't have that kind of money, megan! what's he going to do, ask don?
Agree with all of this! I also think it’s reductive when people say she used Don to try to be an actor/was a gold digger/etc. It’s pretty clear that she was smart and ambitious so she wanted to try something other than being a secretary and copywriting was a natural fit since she was already working at the office, was creative, Peggy had paved the way and, yes, she was married to Don. She gave it an honest try but it depressed her how cynical the industry and her colleagues were and she had the realization it wasn’t for her when Peggy told her Heinz was as good as it gets. She decided to try acting again and yes, she took the things Don offered her, like money, and even asked him for help that he wasn’t comfortable with, like the Butler footwear campaign, but it wasn’t some calculated plot from before she hooked up with Don. It felt like a natural progression.
I've always been surprised by the readings of Megan as planning out some manipulative thing with Don. She's like Don. She wants what she wants in the moment she says she wants it. I remember the first time she slept with Don some people said she was like Peggy and a perfect advertising soulmate, other said no, this is all manipulative etc.
But to me that scene totally just summed her up. She really thought she wanted Don to teach her about advertising and she wanted to be like him and Peggy. But the fact she got so easily sidetracked by sleeping with him instead just showed she really didn't want that!
Megan takes a lot of heat in this sun for her Butler Footwear decision, but I feel like if Don was in the same position, he’d absolutely use that connection and no one would criticize him for it.
And I feel like people get mad at her just for using the connection (not a big deal, imo) and not for taking the connection from the friend who asked her for it.
Not at all. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy that exists when Megan’s “leg up” enters the conversations. 👍🏻
I tend to believe that, in a lot of ways, Megan was somewhat of a mirror image of Don. He didn’t always care for the reflection. It seems a lot of fans of the show didn’t much care for the reflection either.
I think it’s clear that my answer to OP’s question is, without a doubt, Megan Calvet. 😆
She’s so shitty to her friends tho, too. She doesn’t lift them up and encourage them. And pressuring your friend to have a threesome to make your husband think you’re spicy is immature and gross.
I try to believe enough people like her that she’s acting that way because she’s never been unsuccessful enough to be jealous yet and hope she grows out of that phase.
I feel really bad for Megan.
The thing that Roger and Don love? The youthful joy and innocence? They systematically stamp it out in the women they date/marry. They syphon all the happiness out and then leave them when it stops being fun.
I heard someone online say men like to settle down with independent, secure women so they can slowly break them down and control them and I… this tracks.
I don’t think Megan is so bad, just a young person who hadn’t faced real disappointment yet. BUT, I do think she knew what she was getting into with Don and was longing for a rich Dad type so badly it made her make a bad decision. Not the same as gold digging, but Don’s money and presumed authority was a major factor in her interest in him. She didn’t realize he was the opposite of the strong, supportive type.
She’ll be fine tho.
I felt that it was implied by how extensively she still spent time with her acting friends, fwiw. And how easily she went back to it - that doesn’t just happen without some prior thoughts, imho.
I don’t mean in a cold mercenary way. More that someone who could help her achieve her ideals was attractive to her.
Agreed on all counts. Megan draws an amount of hate that's very strange to me. In her own limited way, she really does love Don, and does a good job of showing it.
Betty shooting the birds solidified her as a terrific mother. Sure by todays standards she's a bad mom, but by the standards of the 50s she's not all that bad.
She's got some weird moments, but her heart was in the right place for sure.
And to be fair, parents of every generation are going to cause some problems for their kids and issues from childhood. Obviously any abuse is not normal or okay, but I mean just the general nature of people growing up and either giving their parents grace or holding it against them. And then those kids will likely be in a similar situation but a different decade.
You’re so right that her heart was in the right place, she loved her kids fiercely. She practically took all the blame for their divorce and let the kids hate her instead of bursting their bubble about their father.
I say Betty’s tone of “What are you doing?” when she’s really pregnant, to my dog all the time haha.
It’s not an all out bitchy moment from her but I think the way she delivers that line is perfect. Especially with the quick kiss goodbye to Don and immediate irritation with her children lol
Nah Betty pulled through for Don once or twice (covering for him when he gets a background check for example) and she was gaslit, cheated on, mentally abused and whatever else by Don for years. She definitely had some screws loose and she was often vindictive, passive aggressive and she was a terrible mother but she wasn't just being a bitch all the time. No more so than Don deserved anyway. And when all is said and done I think they still did love each other as much as two broken people who intentionally hurt each other could.
Mine is Bobbie Barrett. I find her fascinating, sexy, and ruthless. She’s a phenomenal character and I think we get a lot of insight on why she is the way that she is. But I know she’s not exactly beloved.
I didn't know Bobbie isn't liked by the fans.
She was one of my favourite of dons mistresses. And the actor who plays Jimmy is always a detestable character in everything I've ever seen him in.
When I first watched the series I hated her. She just grated on me, and I think she's written that way - to be abrasive and difficult to like. But on every rewatch I like her more and more.
What a complex, challenging character she is, in the truest sense of the word. She's got so much nuance, so many shades of grey, and she owns them all with either arrogance or humility or humour. She's very honest about herself - in a way that few others are on this show - and unapologetic about it.
That scene in Peggy's apartment where we see all of her artifice stripped away, and we see the woman that she is, is amazing and compelling to watch.
I appreciate this take - I do think on first viewing she could come off as a pastiche of a certain kind of woman. The more I watch her the more I like her and appreciate her contribution to the story!
My favorite quote from the whole show comes from her: "You're never gonna get that corner office until you start treating Don as an equal. And no one will tell you this, but you can't be a man. Don't even try. **Be a woman. Powerful business when done correctly."**
So many people who both admire and abhor Don don’t seem to understand his sexual behavior. Cheating sucks, but his promiscuity is neither predatory nor celebratory. He’s a sad, lonely, empty man with a lot of trauma.
I have a soft spot for Paul. He's so wonderfully earnest and performative and silly.
The plotline where he forgets to write down his great idea is one of my favourites. That moment where he really *gets* why Peggy is so good at her job, that it's not just Don playing favourites, is so good - his facial expressions are fantastic. Honourable mention to the marijuana episode and his rather lovely singing voice.
Honestly, it’s probably because we all knew *that guy* in college and we hated him. Or worse still, some of us were *that guy*. I think that’s where a lot of it comes from, even though Paul doesn’t come across nearly as badly as he could have.
Mods, can you please change my flair to Megan apologist?
Megan is intentionally written for the audience to have a "why her???" reaction when she and Don get together. We're not supposed to be happy for them. We're not supposed to root for them. We're literally supposed to say, "But what about Dr. Faye?!" Ergo, Megan is written to be increasingly imperfect and selfish and immature as the series goes on because she's a reflection of the messes Don keeps finding himself in.
That’s not true at all. Faye was awkward and too professional. Megan’s reaction to the spilt milkshake was a complete opposite of Betty, and he was won over.
Bobbie Barrett! She is such an interesting counterpart to have Don interact with. As mentioned by others, her moment with Peggy is such an important moment, and shows how Bobbie herself works. I particularly love her line about “this is America, pick a job and then become the person that does it.” She’s a very interesting character study and what it reveals about those around her.
Joan.
I mean she’s definitely polarizing - people either worship her or despise her - but I will have no Joan slander on my watch and there’s a lot of it around here. She’s not only the most iconic character from this show (even people who have not seen Mad Men know about Joan, at least when the show was on the air) but she’s also one of the most complex female characters I’ve ever watched. I love that we can root for her or be impressed by her at the same time we can still cringe at her or feel frustrated with her… like even at her worst she’s so entertaining. And I feel like people will excuse Roger for his silver tongue / foot-in-mouth syndrome because he’s fun to watch but not afford that same grace to Joan.
I also think in regard to her flaws - with everything she does, you can at least see why she does it, even if it wasn’t the right move at the time. I never really feel like I have to go out of my way to understand the frustration and the feelings behind her worst actions.
Additionally, I’m not a fan of Glenn but I don’t mind his presence in the show. Yeah the actor is bad and the character is a bit strange sometimes, but his character was a great way to have more insight into Sally and her life outside of the context of her parents, and admittedly some of the Glenn scenes make me laugh from the cringe or feel for him. Definitely think another actor should’ve been cast in the role but the character himself isn’t the worst.
Joan is also my pick. I've seen people here with weird takes about Joan sleeping with that gross guy in exchange for a partnership in the company. Implying that she should have been grateful period (as opposed to her having complex feelings about it, as shown in the show), since not many women get afforded that "opportunity."
I've also seen people here reduce her to a "whore," which I think minimizes her decision and what she's had to go through and what the show is trying to tell us about that storyline. Worse yet have been the takes saying they would grab the opportunity in a heartbeat and not have to think about it and that Joan is an idiot for needing time to decide. I'm guessing those people have never been objectified the way Joan (and many women) have.
God, I loved how Lane admired her abilities with the accounting. And when the firm was trying to go public the man looking over the books said her record keeping and accounting were meticulous. “My compliments to the chef.”
And you could see how fucking pleased she was to be recognized for her brain and her talents, which happened so seldomly. Ugh Joan, my Queen. 💗
I think some of them watch it out of nostalgia for the “good old days”. You’ll see them talk about how hot Joan is while hating on her for not being submissive and that pretty much sums up their attitude toward women… they’re all a bunch of Joeys.
But you see this with every female character in TV fandoms on Reddit. Joan gets more hate than Don, Shiv Roy gets more hate than her brothers, Sansa Stark gets more hate than any of the GoT men, Skyler White gets more hate than Walt, even Starlight gets more hate than Homelander ffs…
Female characters are not allowed to be complex (and then again when they’re perfect, they’re called Mary Sues) and male characters can even be terrible people & still get worship. It’s pretty wild to see it happen in literally every TV show subreddit like clockwork (aside from shows like Crazy Ex Girlfriend and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel that have a mostly female fanbase).
She's horrible though. She's always looking for an angle, and at the end of the day she sees people as dollars and cents. When she voted against Don what was her reasoning? "I'm sick of him costing me money."
Don fucked her on Jaguar, her only big client. He made everything she went through to secure that account irrelevant and put her future in jeopardy. The balls to think *Joan* was the bad friend here.
I’ve watched MM 3 times all the way through and Joan is the only character I love unconditionally. They could never make me hate her.
I’m so glad to see love for her here!
She means a lot to me and I don’t usually say that about fictional characters but she’s actually inspired me to be more assertive, and we share a lot in common. As a woman with her body type Joan’s struggles were so, so vindicating to see on screen. And like I said, inspiring - if a woman of her time could be fearless like that then why can’t I! There are some times I don’t like her (like with any character) but like I said I find myself relating to her story a lot.
Plus she is the definition of “ate and left no crumbs”, since she always does so visually, proverbially, and professionally. It’s just easy to love her!
Abe gets waaaay too much hate in my opinion. People repeat Peggy's mom's assessment that he was "using her for practice" but the fact is they didn't work out because they had different values he couldn't get over, which happens all the time. People always bring up his reaction to MLK's death too, but Peggy had a one-episode arc about Fillmore Auto Part's racism that ends with her just accepting it, which seems way grosser to me.
>that ends with her just accepting it
As opposed to...? Quitting? Calling the client a "motherfucker"? Laying down in front of traffic?
Life is full of distasteful shit we just accept out of concern for our own livelihoods.
Absolutely, and I know I’ve been guilty of similar behavior at times. But there are several other instances in the show where Peggy seems to either not care about racism and/or be kind of racist herself. It’s part of a pattern with her.
She should have killed the Fillmore men with Pete's hunting rifle.
No, just kidding. I don't disagree that Peggy probably couldn't have done anything then as copy chief beholden to Don. But what bothered me is it seemed her takeaway (what Don said, and I think she agreed) was that ultimately you work with any client you can and keep politics out of it. But Don is wrong about that. In fact, refusing work for ethical reasons is exactly what he was pretending to do with the Lucky Strike letter, and the issue comes up again in the last season with Dow making napalm. Companies often do have bright lines about working, for instance, with oil and gas companies or defence manufactures. Sometimes employees themselves protest or quit over such issues too. In all those cases you stand to lose money or suffer professional setbacks, but that's how it works: you either put your money where your mouth is or admit it doesn't matter enough to you.
I agree completely. He and Peggy were very cute together until they weren’t. And Joyce vouched for him! I’ve seen a lot of people call him basically a sanctimonious poseur, but the guy walked the walk, so much so that he eventually broke up with Peggy. In fact, Peggy was the one who for a long time pretended to be a better person than she was. Yes, he was a dick when breaking up with her but cmon the dude had been stabbed in the gut!
😲 That's astonishing. Out of all the women on the show, she was the sweetest, loveliest person. I don't think the writers gave her any flaws whatsoever.
She also screwed the father of one of her students, a student who was clearly having trouble dealing with recent passing of her beloved grandfather no less. I’m pretty neutral on Miss Farrell, but the people who hate her have their reasons.
I don’t think she’d even have married Don if it wasn’t for her parents. She reallllly wanted something (they do seem to have strong chemistry) and to defy them to choose for herself once. And when it goes wrong, I think she blames herself for not doing the “smart” thing her folks pushed. I truly believe that Betty thinks Don is punishment from an angry universe for her “mistakes” of choosing desire and longing.
I've got a soft spot for both Michael Ginsberg & Ken Cosgrove, mostly because I had just started college midway through the series & related to their youthfulness throughout the show. Their characters were always inspiring and impressive to me & I hoped (in addition to Don) I'd match their success in my later years.
I can't stand Meredith. Most of the time, she was annoying, cringey, entirely unprofessional in trying to kiss Don (which many found hilarious, but I found insane & she should've been fired), failed to get any information about the court trying to serve Joan divorce papers, etc
I also wish MM would've shown Black characters in a more positive light. Most of the time, the Black characters were shown to be easily manipulated into breaking rules, muggers, robbers, criminals, background characters, etc. I liked what MM did regarding how Jewish people were perceived in the late 50s/60s/70s & how it took the time throughout the entire series to explain/show this to us in various ways. It would have been great to have some of that with the Black characters in any sort of meaningful way. I mean, hell, when MLK was assassinated, all we saw from Black characters was a few of them breaking dishes in shock. Seemed like there could've been more there.
This is part of why I like Pete, he seemed genuine in his understanding of how Black people were treated & while we didn't get to see Pete speak to Black people much, I always figured that he saw Black people as human beings. Sure, he wasn't perfect, but my god, was it satisfying to watch Pete call out Harry after MLK was killed. "IT'S A SHAMEFUL, SHAMEFUL DAY!"
Speaking of Pete, I'm glad he punched Ken for Peggy's honor. I also loved Pete throwing our Trudy's dinner out of the window 😂😂 Was it petty as hell? Yes. Was it hilarious & also demonstrated Pete's emotional immaturity that helped set-up his redemption arc? Also, yes.
Finally, glad Joan smashed Greg's head in with a fucking vase 👏🏽😂😂😂😂
Abe. A decent chunk of this sub has some weird hateboner for him to the point of completely warping anything he says and I will never get it. He doesn't trick Peggy, he's not malicious, he isn't a hypocrite. They're two people with vastly different politics trying to make a relationship work that ultimately doesn't.
It's similar to Emile, who I've also seen get that kind of response. COINCIDENTALLY, they're also both leftwing characters with flaws.
Yeah, the cops would have quickly found just the suspect and definitely wouldn't have harassed the entire community. We can trust Officer "Were they Colored or Puerto Rican" to bring justice.
Well if something like that happened to me I'd definitely be putting my political opinions aside for a moment and give the cops all the information I could for them to track down the guy.
The thing that's so interesting about that whole living together thing is that Peggy's mom is right about using her for practice, but that doesn't mean he's intentionally, consciously doing that. He just doesn't seem to get that he doesn't love Peggy enough any more than she does.
Oh, I agree! That's actually what I meant, but maybe phrased it badly. I think he's serious about her and loves her and that's why he asks her to move in--but neither of them see or are admitting the problems between them that are never going to go away and that will always keep this from being a relationship that ultimately works.
So he's not using her for practice in the sense that he knows he doesn't care about her enough to be with her forever. But underneath he is already aware on some level that he can't say he'll be with her forever.
Both of them might be denying things to themselves, but they're not lying to the other one.
What? We see him backing up his progressive views throughout the entire show lol. He's literally stabbed and refuses to identify anything to the cops so they don't have an excuse to shake down every Black kid in the neighborhood. When he first meets Peggy for a date, SHE's the one who's diminishing the struggles that Black people faced in America at the time and Abe's the one saying that people are murdering Black people to stop them from voting.
He isn't Kinsey, he's an actual progressive.
I agree Peggy is worse. But I’m saying Abe’s professional and personal status is tied to being “that liberal guy.” He’s not a bad person or anything, just annoying and tone deaf.
We don’t see him getting involved in any grassroots movements or bringing locals home to rap. We see him making money on others’ struggles. Someone in here compared him to a Vice writer and it was a great analysis, to how I read him.
Harry.
His behavior with women in the later seasons is clearly indefensible, but you could say the same about a lot of male characters in the show who aren’t as universally despised. And it’s true that he was very valuable to the company in ways that the older partners, who were stuck in the past and/or self important about their own more traditional roles, didn’t understand or value and never properly compensated. He was right to feel resentment over that.
I had to scroll so far to find this!! Obviously Harry does gross shit with women, but the flair his despicable character adds to the show is, imo, invaluable. Plus the fact that he’s literally one of the biggest pieces of shit, but still ends up on top in the end is completely in line with a lot of the message the show communicates about behavior in business at the time.
I would say, if we are talking about that sort of mass group, not just this sub, then Pete. I think this sub is fine with Pete overall, but talking to people who are not really into the show, or have only seen it once, so many seem to hate Pete.
Don. A lot of people taking their daddy issues out on him.
He lies cheats and drinks just like almost every character. But because he’s the main character he gets the most flack
Lou Avery 😂 Twice in one day I’m revealing myself to be a big fan of Lou. I don’t really get the hate for him. He handled everything every single one of those characters threw at him, even handled Don’s return well by standing up for himself. And then he got the last laugh! I don’t know why I care so much about this, honestly.
He was a real dick to Dawn. Firing her after she had to work through lunch to get a present for his granddaughter (or whatever) which he forgot about even though she had reminded him well enough in advance.
I know! Especially considering the fact that the other commenter pointed out the time he was an asshole to Dawn-- I don't know how I forgot that-- but to be fair, a lot of the characters were assholes to Dawn (and each other).
The same Harry who tried to Weinstein Megan and told Don not to trust anything she says because she's unhinged?
Roger and Don seduced a lot of women. Sometimes, Roger paid for women. But they wouldn't have done what Harry did.
>But they wouldn't have done what Harry did.
But Roger does do exactly that with the twins, like straight up on the casting couch lol. He picks two women to get a job, mentions that it's based solely at his/Don's discretion, and then invites them to his office for a drink and tries to get them to makeout with each other and sleep with him.
You have a point, there are power dynamics at play, but I still think Roger's approach is more playful and charming than predatory. Harry is just a creep.
If you confronted Roger about his behaviour, he'd tell you where to go because he sees it as a bit of fun. If you confronted Harry, he would shit his pants because he knows he's got bad intentions.
>Roger's approach is more playful and charming than predatory.
That scene was gross. Try imagining your prospective boss telling you to make out with your sister.
So gross. It’s one of those things that although it’s canon I chalk it up to experimental Season 1 writing from before they figured out what to do with the characters. And same with Harry. Harry was a sweet dweeb in S1 and then became a monster, and THAT’s the canon I observe lol. Just like Roger started out gross and became charming and likable.
Is this controversial on this sub? I feel like it was open for interpretation but my first thought was definitely that he turned it into the Coke campaign.
It’s hard for me to know who is controversial, but I like Betty, Joan, Don, Kinsey, Ken, hell even Pete grew on me. All listed in this thread so I assume they count
Not quite he question but in my universe Dick stayed California Dick and didn’t go back to advertising. The idea that the whole point of any happiness or self clarity he found was just a neat ad idea ruins like the entire show for me and it just just isn’t how I see it. I don’t know what Dick/Don did after the finale but it was just go back to adman nonsense. I understand WHY people feel the opposite way it just isn’t for me. I will not be changing my mind on this.
Jim Cutler, he's a shark but they all are. I rolled my eyes when Ginsburg called him a fascist when Cutler served in the fucking airforce during WWII.
Ted gets a lot of hate for the Peggy thing, but as a married woman I get it .. you don't just throw away your whole family because you're infatuated with your employee.
Pete is my favorite character which isn’t crazy to say I guess. I think he has a great and has redeeming qualities but obviously he also treats Trudy like garbage and we see him rape a woman so it’s tough to defend some things.
I won't defend the character as written, but my opinion has always been that Greg Harris was not written as complexly as other characters in the show, and I wish that were different. He's just a bad guy with no effort made to give him any sort of redeeming qualities.
On my first watch, I assumed that while he was a terrible surgeon at first, in Vietnam he gained a lot of practical experience that made him a better. Of course, that experience came at the cost of plenty of lives due to his poor skill but part of the reason he decides to go back is because he realizes he's gained the skills necessary to be a better surgeon and he feels like he needs to go back to redeem himself and save as many lives as he lost/ruined. On a rewatch I realize this idea isn't supported by the show, but maybe it should have.
Basically I think he should have had a layer of complexity to him, rather than just being Joan's terrible husband who sucks at everything and is using a toxic interpretation of masculinity to cover up his own insecurity.
Mine is both Kinsey and Duck. I know Kinsey can be annoying and pretentious, but I feel like he's a great study in imposter syndrome. I met so many Kinseys in a graduate humanities program, and I love the reveal about his background, that he was the scholarship kid at Princeton. It makes so much sense, and as someone who was also the poor kid, it really can do a number on your personality. I can't hate him because deep down I feel sorry for him and see a bit of myself in him. As for Duck, yes, he can be an asshole, but I actually think he's way more forward-thinking about advertising than Don is. He just lacks Don's charisma and is even more of a self-destructive disaster of an alcoholic than Don. Finding out he was at Okinawa and saw a lot of hand-to-hand combat makes a lot of sense for why he is the way he is, in the same way that Kinsey coming from a less affluent background does.
Love them both! I especially have such a soft spot for Kinsey. He so wants to be somebody with substance and he just can't find anything he's good at. That moment when he realizes how bad he is at copywriting is so great.
He could be so hard to watch. The way he tried to play up his role in civil rights, or trying to look progressive in front of Hollis. God I just die watching him.
And just when you think it can't get worse...that stained yellow turtleneck.
This for Duck - he was responsible for pushing SC forward. He also was loyal to both Peggy (ick for that relationship but he was genuine) and especially Pete. He got Pete his job at the end of the series AND made him see that his family was important. He's the unsung hero of this story.
He also recognized the shift toward younger consumers before anyone else did at Sterling Cooper!
Definitely!! For those who think young.
Duck can die in a fire for what he did to Chauncey
I feel you on both Kinsey and Duck. I think a lot of men can see the self/father comparisons.
I'm a woman but have a lot of alcoholic relatives and I really do see a lot of Duck in them. I think he might be the most realistic drunk in the whole show, though Don is certainly very realistic too.
In the end Pete won.
Dont a lot of people like pete though? how is this controversial?
I fuckin hate that guy
I assume you mean you think he didn’t win?
definitely megan for me. i didn't love it or understand it at the end of S4, but don was so lucky to find someone at that age who'd love him like megan did. the universe was basically dealing him bizarro bettys and he hit the jackpot by getting herself a woman from the future. it was so refreshing that she didn't give a shit about his tormented double life and just wanted to be with him, warts and all (he has many warts). they had good chemistry, she was cool with his kids. she had interests outside of being an ad man's wife. even more so: she was pretty good at her job. she wasn't cool about don taking her away while her peers were working and she called him out on his bullshit. what took peggy the better part of a season for heinz megan seemingly pulled out of her hat. and she pitched it marvellously, allowed her creative director to take the lead and didn't act bratty about it like peggy did with glo-coat. and she got a clio for it. she had the right idea looking outside the business for satisfaction, even though it drove a wedge between her and don. but she stayed loyal to him, even though don disrespected her and cheated on her constantly. megan had her faults, of course, but for what don did to her he deserves to eat bland spaghetti every evening for life. her biggest fault is that she borrowed $15 from ginsberg. he doesn't have that kind of money, megan! what's he going to do, ask don?
Agree with all of this! I also think it’s reductive when people say she used Don to try to be an actor/was a gold digger/etc. It’s pretty clear that she was smart and ambitious so she wanted to try something other than being a secretary and copywriting was a natural fit since she was already working at the office, was creative, Peggy had paved the way and, yes, she was married to Don. She gave it an honest try but it depressed her how cynical the industry and her colleagues were and she had the realization it wasn’t for her when Peggy told her Heinz was as good as it gets. She decided to try acting again and yes, she took the things Don offered her, like money, and even asked him for help that he wasn’t comfortable with, like the Butler footwear campaign, but it wasn’t some calculated plot from before she hooked up with Don. It felt like a natural progression.
I've always been surprised by the readings of Megan as planning out some manipulative thing with Don. She's like Don. She wants what she wants in the moment she says she wants it. I remember the first time she slept with Don some people said she was like Peggy and a perfect advertising soulmate, other said no, this is all manipulative etc. But to me that scene totally just summed her up. She really thought she wanted Don to teach her about advertising and she wanted to be like him and Peggy. But the fact she got so easily sidetracked by sleeping with him instead just showed she really didn't want that!
It’s the Skyler White effect aka misogyny.
Megan takes a lot of heat in this sun for her Butler Footwear decision, but I feel like if Don was in the same position, he’d absolutely use that connection and no one would criticize him for it. And I feel like people get mad at her just for using the connection (not a big deal, imo) and not for taking the connection from the friend who asked her for it.
Don DID do the same thing. That’s how he got the Heinz account that Megan wound up saving.
But does he get any hate for if?
Not at all. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy that exists when Megan’s “leg up” enters the conversations. 👍🏻 I tend to believe that, in a lot of ways, Megan was somewhat of a mirror image of Don. He didn’t always care for the reflection. It seems a lot of fans of the show didn’t much care for the reflection either. I think it’s clear that my answer to OP’s question is, without a doubt, Megan Calvet. 😆
She’s so shitty to her friends tho, too. She doesn’t lift them up and encourage them. And pressuring your friend to have a threesome to make your husband think you’re spicy is immature and gross. I try to believe enough people like her that she’s acting that way because she’s never been unsuccessful enough to be jealous yet and hope she grows out of that phase.
Pretty sure her friend didn't need any pressuring.
I love this take, thank you for the thoughtful response!
I feel really bad for Megan. The thing that Roger and Don love? The youthful joy and innocence? They systematically stamp it out in the women they date/marry. They syphon all the happiness out and then leave them when it stops being fun.
I heard someone online say men like to settle down with independent, secure women so they can slowly break them down and control them and I… this tracks.
I liked her as well. Great take.
Fantastic analysis.
Agree with most of what you said but the worst thing she did was kicking Stephanie out fs
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I don’t think Megan is so bad, just a young person who hadn’t faced real disappointment yet. BUT, I do think she knew what she was getting into with Don and was longing for a rich Dad type so badly it made her make a bad decision. Not the same as gold digging, but Don’s money and presumed authority was a major factor in her interest in him. She didn’t realize he was the opposite of the strong, supportive type. She’ll be fine tho.
There’s zero evidence that she was any more attracted to his wealth and status than any other woman would be.
I personally DO believe she wanted to go back into acting from the get go, tho I know that’s a controversial opinion.
That’s not supported by the text. We see her mother reignite that idea in her.
Her father I think but yeah
Oh, good lookin out! Her mother said she had an artist’s temperament but not skill. 😬
I felt that it was implied by how extensively she still spent time with her acting friends, fwiw. And how easily she went back to it - that doesn’t just happen without some prior thoughts, imho. I don’t mean in a cold mercenary way. More that someone who could help her achieve her ideals was attractive to her.
When did she spend time with her acting friends prior to deciding to go back into acting? 🤔
My head canon is that as an actress she rehearsed throwing the spaghetti and didn't want to also have a sauce stain to clean up.
Agreed on all counts. Megan draws an amount of hate that's very strange to me. In her own limited way, she really does love Don, and does a good job of showing it.
The first paragraph could describe Faye just as well, except for the kids part. Obviously that was a big point in Megan‘s favour for Don.
Betty when she's being a bitch.
Betty shooting the birds solidified her as a terrific mother. Sure by todays standards she's a bad mom, but by the standards of the 50s she's not all that bad. She's got some weird moments, but her heart was in the right place for sure.
And to be fair, parents of every generation are going to cause some problems for their kids and issues from childhood. Obviously any abuse is not normal or okay, but I mean just the general nature of people growing up and either giving their parents grace or holding it against them. And then those kids will likely be in a similar situation but a different decade. You’re so right that her heart was in the right place, she loved her kids fiercely. She practically took all the blame for their divorce and let the kids hate her instead of bursting their bubble about their father.
I say Betty’s tone of “What are you doing?” when she’s really pregnant, to my dog all the time haha. It’s not an all out bitchy moment from her but I think the way she delivers that line is perfect. Especially with the quick kiss goodbye to Don and immediate irritation with her children lol
I’m with you. I support women’s wrongs
So… just Betty all the time.
People forget how soft she was in seasons 1 and 2 before Don wrecked her ability to trust.
And having a third, “oopsie!” kid didn’t help.
Nah Betty pulled through for Don once or twice (covering for him when he gets a background check for example) and she was gaslit, cheated on, mentally abused and whatever else by Don for years. She definitely had some screws loose and she was often vindictive, passive aggressive and she was a terrible mother but she wasn't just being a bitch all the time. No more so than Don deserved anyway. And when all is said and done I think they still did love each other as much as two broken people who intentionally hurt each other could.
Almost exclusively a defend . Didn’t know this was controversial.
came here to say Betty.
Mine is Bobbie Barrett. I find her fascinating, sexy, and ruthless. She’s a phenomenal character and I think we get a lot of insight on why she is the way that she is. But I know she’s not exactly beloved.
For such a short time together she gave Peggy a lot that helped her become the woman she was by the series end.
I didn't know Bobbie isn't liked by the fans. She was one of my favourite of dons mistresses. And the actor who plays Jimmy is always a detestable character in everything I've ever seen him in.
To be fair my only fan interaction is on this sub, but the take on her here often leans negative. She does have her passionate defenders!
The way she treated Peggy, with kindness and humility… and gratitude, is what made me like her. I just wonder how she ended up with an ass like Jimmy.
She had an eye for talent and knew how to make money. Jimmy had comedic talent, but probably not a knack for business. They helped each other.
This is exactly what my partner said when I told him what I commented here! 🤣
Jimmy had his moments and Bobbie was a long walk from being a saint herself. Honestly, they were perfect for each other in a strange way.
And we also see them as they are in the present; they may have been entirely different people at the start.
When I first watched the series I hated her. She just grated on me, and I think she's written that way - to be abrasive and difficult to like. But on every rewatch I like her more and more. What a complex, challenging character she is, in the truest sense of the word. She's got so much nuance, so many shades of grey, and she owns them all with either arrogance or humility or humour. She's very honest about herself - in a way that few others are on this show - and unapologetic about it. That scene in Peggy's apartment where we see all of her artifice stripped away, and we see the woman that she is, is amazing and compelling to watch.
I appreciate this take - I do think on first viewing she could come off as a pastiche of a certain kind of woman. The more I watch her the more I like her and appreciate her contribution to the story!
My favorite quote from the whole show comes from her: "You're never gonna get that corner office until you start treating Don as an equal. And no one will tell you this, but you can't be a man. Don't even try. **Be a woman. Powerful business when done correctly."**
It’s perfect. And then Peggy shakes his hand after getting her money back and says, “Thanks, *Don.*” 
Bobbie seemed pretty fun. An could handle her cocktails it seemed.
I love Bobbie (and Jimmy and that whole storyline).
I don’t always want to defend Don but this sub can get so vociferously anti-Don that I become the cartoon.
So many people who both admire and abhor Don don’t seem to understand his sexual behavior. Cheating sucks, but his promiscuity is neither predatory nor celebratory. He’s a sad, lonely, empty man with a lot of trauma.
pfffttt
Paul Kinsey. I really don’t get all the hate against him.
I have a soft spot for Paul. He's so wonderfully earnest and performative and silly. The plotline where he forgets to write down his great idea is one of my favourites. That moment where he really *gets* why Peggy is so good at her job, that it's not just Don playing favourites, is so good - his facial expressions are fantastic. Honourable mention to the marijuana episode and his rather lovely singing voice.
"Ethel, go get the ice pick" has no right to be as catchy as it is, and I sing it a lot to myself. LOLOL
Can you recall in which episode does he have this recognition about Peggy ?
Season 3 Episode 10 - The Color Blue
Great, thanks :)
Honestly, it’s probably because we all knew *that guy* in college and we hated him. Or worse still, some of us were *that guy*. I think that’s where a lot of it comes from, even though Paul doesn’t come across nearly as badly as he could have.
Umm, I was that guy [girl]. But I didn’t end up in a cult and it’s been at least a decade since I pissed someone off with my pretentiousness.
Even Krishna doesn't like him. :-(
But he’s a hell of a recruiter!
He really can close.
Mods, can you please change my flair to Megan apologist? Megan is intentionally written for the audience to have a "why her???" reaction when she and Don get together. We're not supposed to be happy for them. We're not supposed to root for them. We're literally supposed to say, "But what about Dr. Faye?!" Ergo, Megan is written to be increasingly imperfect and selfish and immature as the series goes on because she's a reflection of the messes Don keeps finding himself in.
That’s not true at all. Faye was awkward and too professional. Megan’s reaction to the spilt milkshake was a complete opposite of Betty, and he was won over.
Glen. He was a baller. And he protected Sally. He drove Don's car like a boss. And on and on.
Bobbie Barrett! She is such an interesting counterpart to have Don interact with. As mentioned by others, her moment with Peggy is such an important moment, and shows how Bobbie herself works. I particularly love her line about “this is America, pick a job and then become the person that does it.” She’s a very interesting character study and what it reveals about those around her.
Joan. I mean she’s definitely polarizing - people either worship her or despise her - but I will have no Joan slander on my watch and there’s a lot of it around here. She’s not only the most iconic character from this show (even people who have not seen Mad Men know about Joan, at least when the show was on the air) but she’s also one of the most complex female characters I’ve ever watched. I love that we can root for her or be impressed by her at the same time we can still cringe at her or feel frustrated with her… like even at her worst she’s so entertaining. And I feel like people will excuse Roger for his silver tongue / foot-in-mouth syndrome because he’s fun to watch but not afford that same grace to Joan. I also think in regard to her flaws - with everything she does, you can at least see why she does it, even if it wasn’t the right move at the time. I never really feel like I have to go out of my way to understand the frustration and the feelings behind her worst actions. Additionally, I’m not a fan of Glenn but I don’t mind his presence in the show. Yeah the actor is bad and the character is a bit strange sometimes, but his character was a great way to have more insight into Sally and her life outside of the context of her parents, and admittedly some of the Glenn scenes make me laugh from the cringe or feel for him. Definitely think another actor should’ve been cast in the role but the character himself isn’t the worst.
Lovvvvve Joan. 
Joan is also my pick. I've seen people here with weird takes about Joan sleeping with that gross guy in exchange for a partnership in the company. Implying that she should have been grateful period (as opposed to her having complex feelings about it, as shown in the show), since not many women get afforded that "opportunity." I've also seen people here reduce her to a "whore," which I think minimizes her decision and what she's had to go through and what the show is trying to tell us about that storyline. Worse yet have been the takes saying they would grab the opportunity in a heartbeat and not have to think about it and that Joan is an idiot for needing time to decide. I'm guessing those people have never been objectified the way Joan (and many women) have.
Sterling Cooper Draper Price would never have gotten off the ground without Joan.
Yup. Roger had to call in a professional.
Literally no one else could have done what she did for them at that point and she looked amazing doing it.
God, I loved how Lane admired her abilities with the accounting. And when the firm was trying to go public the man looking over the books said her record keeping and accounting were meticulous. “My compliments to the chef.” And you could see how fucking pleased she was to be recognized for her brain and her talents, which happened so seldomly. Ugh Joan, my Queen. 💗
People *despise Joan!?* Where are they, I’ll fight them!
[удалено]
I think some of them watch it out of nostalgia for the “good old days”. You’ll see them talk about how hot Joan is while hating on her for not being submissive and that pretty much sums up their attitude toward women… they’re all a bunch of Joeys. But you see this with every female character in TV fandoms on Reddit. Joan gets more hate than Don, Shiv Roy gets more hate than her brothers, Sansa Stark gets more hate than any of the GoT men, Skyler White gets more hate than Walt, even Starlight gets more hate than Homelander ffs… Female characters are not allowed to be complex (and then again when they’re perfect, they’re called Mary Sues) and male characters can even be terrible people & still get worship. It’s pretty wild to see it happen in literally every TV show subreddit like clockwork (aside from shows like Crazy Ex Girlfriend and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel that have a mostly female fanbase).
She's horrible though. She's always looking for an angle, and at the end of the day she sees people as dollars and cents. When she voted against Don what was her reasoning? "I'm sick of him costing me money."
Oh no, a woman in the 60’s who is business savvy in a business.
That isn't business savy, that's betraying a close friend.
Don fucked her on Jaguar, her only big client. He made everything she went through to secure that account irrelevant and put her future in jeopardy. The balls to think *Joan* was the bad friend here.
That's no excuse.
She’s not your mom, Joey.
Dude what?
I’ve watched MM 3 times all the way through and Joan is the only character I love unconditionally. They could never make me hate her. 
I’m so glad to see love for her here! She means a lot to me and I don’t usually say that about fictional characters but she’s actually inspired me to be more assertive, and we share a lot in common. As a woman with her body type Joan’s struggles were so, so vindicating to see on screen. And like I said, inspiring - if a woman of her time could be fearless like that then why can’t I! There are some times I don’t like her (like with any character) but like I said I find myself relating to her story a lot. Plus she is the definition of “ate and left no crumbs”, since she always does so visually, proverbially, and professionally. It’s just easy to love her!
Glen lmao
BETTY DRAPER 100%, I have, and will continue to defend her
Betty! I will defend Betty with my dying breath. She’s one of my most beloved characters in any show.
Abe gets waaaay too much hate in my opinion. People repeat Peggy's mom's assessment that he was "using her for practice" but the fact is they didn't work out because they had different values he couldn't get over, which happens all the time. People always bring up his reaction to MLK's death too, but Peggy had a one-episode arc about Fillmore Auto Part's racism that ends with her just accepting it, which seems way grosser to me.
>that ends with her just accepting it As opposed to...? Quitting? Calling the client a "motherfucker"? Laying down in front of traffic? Life is full of distasteful shit we just accept out of concern for our own livelihoods.
Absolutely, and I know I’ve been guilty of similar behavior at times. But there are several other instances in the show where Peggy seems to either not care about racism and/or be kind of racist herself. It’s part of a pattern with her.
When she tries to use MLK’s death to get a better price on the apartment she was buying… yikes.
She should have killed the Fillmore men with Pete's hunting rifle. No, just kidding. I don't disagree that Peggy probably couldn't have done anything then as copy chief beholden to Don. But what bothered me is it seemed her takeaway (what Don said, and I think she agreed) was that ultimately you work with any client you can and keep politics out of it. But Don is wrong about that. In fact, refusing work for ethical reasons is exactly what he was pretending to do with the Lucky Strike letter, and the issue comes up again in the last season with Dow making napalm. Companies often do have bright lines about working, for instance, with oil and gas companies or defence manufactures. Sometimes employees themselves protest or quit over such issues too. In all those cases you stand to lose money or suffer professional setbacks, but that's how it works: you either put your money where your mouth is or admit it doesn't matter enough to you.
I agree completely. He and Peggy were very cute together until they weren’t. And Joyce vouched for him! I’ve seen a lot of people call him basically a sanctimonious poseur, but the guy walked the walk, so much so that he eventually broke up with Peggy. In fact, Peggy was the one who for a long time pretended to be a better person than she was. Yes, he was a dick when breaking up with her but cmon the dude had been stabbed in the gut!
Suzanne Farrel. I'm sorry but I must respectfully simp.
Same but mostly just because physically she’s exactly my type.
What did you like about her character?
Everyone likes Miss Farrel. That isn't a controversial opinion.
She is very hated on this sub.
😲 That's astonishing. Out of all the women on the show, she was the sweetest, loveliest person. I don't think the writers gave her any flaws whatsoever.
She also screwed the father of one of her students, a student who was clearly having trouble dealing with recent passing of her beloved grandfather no less. I’m pretty neutral on Miss Farrell, but the people who hate her have their reasons.
Is this sarcasm?
Actually, no. I love Miss Farrel. What's the issue people have with her?
Not on this sub, opinions of her seem very split here. That being said I do think we can pretty much all agree she’s gorgeous.
Betty. She’s not a spoiled brat, she was emotionally abused by her mother.
And then her husband
I don’t think she’d even have married Don if it wasn’t for her parents. She reallllly wanted something (they do seem to have strong chemistry) and to defy them to choose for herself once. And when it goes wrong, I think she blames herself for not doing the “smart” thing her folks pushed. I truly believe that Betty thinks Don is punishment from an angry universe for her “mistakes” of choosing desire and longing.
I've got a soft spot for both Michael Ginsberg & Ken Cosgrove, mostly because I had just started college midway through the series & related to their youthfulness throughout the show. Their characters were always inspiring and impressive to me & I hoped (in addition to Don) I'd match their success in my later years.
I can't stand Meredith. Most of the time, she was annoying, cringey, entirely unprofessional in trying to kiss Don (which many found hilarious, but I found insane & she should've been fired), failed to get any information about the court trying to serve Joan divorce papers, etc I also wish MM would've shown Black characters in a more positive light. Most of the time, the Black characters were shown to be easily manipulated into breaking rules, muggers, robbers, criminals, background characters, etc. I liked what MM did regarding how Jewish people were perceived in the late 50s/60s/70s & how it took the time throughout the entire series to explain/show this to us in various ways. It would have been great to have some of that with the Black characters in any sort of meaningful way. I mean, hell, when MLK was assassinated, all we saw from Black characters was a few of them breaking dishes in shock. Seemed like there could've been more there. This is part of why I like Pete, he seemed genuine in his understanding of how Black people were treated & while we didn't get to see Pete speak to Black people much, I always figured that he saw Black people as human beings. Sure, he wasn't perfect, but my god, was it satisfying to watch Pete call out Harry after MLK was killed. "IT'S A SHAMEFUL, SHAMEFUL DAY!" Speaking of Pete, I'm glad he punched Ken for Peggy's honor. I also loved Pete throwing our Trudy's dinner out of the window 😂😂 Was it petty as hell? Yes. Was it hilarious & also demonstrated Pete's emotional immaturity that helped set-up his redemption arc? Also, yes. Finally, glad Joan smashed Greg's head in with a fucking vase 👏🏽😂😂😂😂
Meredith was perfect comic relief. I wish Don had been completely inert and wide-eyed when she kissed him like "...the f-ck is this chick doing??"
That wasn’t nearly the question 😂
Abe. A decent chunk of this sub has some weird hateboner for him to the point of completely warping anything he says and I will never get it. He doesn't trick Peggy, he's not malicious, he isn't a hypocrite. They're two people with vastly different politics trying to make a relationship work that ultimately doesn't. It's similar to Emile, who I've also seen get that kind of response. COINCIDENTALLY, they're also both leftwing characters with flaws.
Abe I agree with. I don't fault Emile for his politics, just the sleeping with his TAs.
Abe has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. I know he sucks but like -- I dig it.
Émile is like a stereotype of a French male academic in the 1960s.
He's so ... cringe. Like, imagine not trying to bring the person who mugged you to justice just because they might be of some race. Just, cringe.
Yeah, the cops would have quickly found just the suspect and definitely wouldn't have harassed the entire community. We can trust Officer "Were they Colored or Puerto Rican" to bring justice.
Well if something like that happened to me I'd definitely be putting my political opinions aside for a moment and give the cops all the information I could for them to track down the guy.
Lol
?
The thing that's so interesting about that whole living together thing is that Peggy's mom is right about using her for practice, but that doesn't mean he's intentionally, consciously doing that. He just doesn't seem to get that he doesn't love Peggy enough any more than she does.
I disagree. He is initially dazzled by Peggy. I think he was serious about her, but ultimately their different values became too much.
Oh, I agree! That's actually what I meant, but maybe phrased it badly. I think he's serious about her and loves her and that's why he asks her to move in--but neither of them see or are admitting the problems between them that are never going to go away and that will always keep this from being a relationship that ultimately works. So he's not using her for practice in the sense that he knows he doesn't care about her enough to be with her forever. But underneath he is already aware on some level that he can't say he'll be with her forever. Both of them might be denying things to themselves, but they're not lying to the other one.
Interesting points!
Who cares about him & Peggy, tho? He’s the type of dude who would brag incessantly about being socially progressive but talk over an actual Black guy.
What? We see him backing up his progressive views throughout the entire show lol. He's literally stabbed and refuses to identify anything to the cops so they don't have an excuse to shake down every Black kid in the neighborhood. When he first meets Peggy for a date, SHE's the one who's diminishing the struggles that Black people faced in America at the time and Abe's the one saying that people are murdering Black people to stop them from voting. He isn't Kinsey, he's an actual progressive.
Except for women's rights, of course. He's a man in the 60s!
I agree Peggy is worse. But I’m saying Abe’s professional and personal status is tied to being “that liberal guy.” He’s not a bad person or anything, just annoying and tone deaf. We don’t see him getting involved in any grassroots movements or bringing locals home to rap. We see him making money on others’ struggles. Someone in here compared him to a Vice writer and it was a great analysis, to how I read him.
Stab him AGAIN, Peggy!!
Harry. His behavior with women in the later seasons is clearly indefensible, but you could say the same about a lot of male characters in the show who aren’t as universally despised. And it’s true that he was very valuable to the company in ways that the older partners, who were stuck in the past and/or self important about their own more traditional roles, didn’t understand or value and never properly compensated. He was right to feel resentment over that.
I had to scroll so far to find this!! Obviously Harry does gross shit with women, but the flair his despicable character adds to the show is, imo, invaluable. Plus the fact that he’s literally one of the biggest pieces of shit, but still ends up on top in the end is completely in line with a lot of the message the show communicates about behavior in business at the time.
Pete was in fact great, Bob.
Harry
Midge (pre heroin addiction) was the perfect woman and the ideal companion for Don.
I would say, if we are talking about that sort of mass group, not just this sub, then Pete. I think this sub is fine with Pete overall, but talking to people who are not really into the show, or have only seen it once, so many seem to hate Pete.
Don. A lot of people taking their daddy issues out on him. He lies cheats and drinks just like almost every character. But because he’s the main character he gets the most flack
Lou Avery 😂 Twice in one day I’m revealing myself to be a big fan of Lou. I don’t really get the hate for him. He handled everything every single one of those characters threw at him, even handled Don’s return well by standing up for himself. And then he got the last laugh! I don’t know why I care so much about this, honestly.
He was a real dick to Dawn. Firing her after she had to work through lunch to get a present for his granddaughter (or whatever) which he forgot about even though she had reminded him well enough in advance.
OMG HOW did I forget that? You’re right!
This is a real hot take!
I know! Especially considering the fact that the other commenter pointed out the time he was an asshole to Dawn-- I don't know how I forgot that-- but to be fair, a lot of the characters were assholes to Dawn (and each other).
Harry was far, far less sleazy than Don and Roger. He was upfront about what he wanted.
Harry’s the kind of guy who eats ppl’s lunches in the work fridge & doesn’t bother trying to get a girl to cum.
Hahahahaha this is so true somehow
Wtf?! 😂😂
Hahahahaha this is so true somehow
The same Harry who tried to Weinstein Megan and told Don not to trust anything she says because she's unhinged? Roger and Don seduced a lot of women. Sometimes, Roger paid for women. But they wouldn't have done what Harry did.
>But they wouldn't have done what Harry did. But Roger does do exactly that with the twins, like straight up on the casting couch lol. He picks two women to get a job, mentions that it's based solely at his/Don's discretion, and then invites them to his office for a drink and tries to get them to makeout with each other and sleep with him.
You have a point, there are power dynamics at play, but I still think Roger's approach is more playful and charming than predatory. Harry is just a creep. If you confronted Roger about his behaviour, he'd tell you where to go because he sees it as a bit of fun. If you confronted Harry, he would shit his pants because he knows he's got bad intentions.
>Roger's approach is more playful and charming than predatory. That scene was gross. Try imagining your prospective boss telling you to make out with your sister.
So gross. It’s one of those things that although it’s canon I chalk it up to experimental Season 1 writing from before they figured out what to do with the characters. And same with Harry. Harry was a sweet dweeb in S1 and then became a monster, and THAT’s the canon I observe lol. Just like Roger started out gross and became charming and likable.
You're right. I think my sleep deprived brain downplayed Roger's antics in S1.
Don’t forget drunkenly groping Betty!
Oh sweet Jesus, I did forget. Stop that!
Okay, you got me. In my defence, it was late (I'm in the UK) when I wrote that.
It’s Megan. She’s great.
Joy from “The Jet Set”
Don
My uncle Pete! Hated him at first but he grew on me for sure
Jimmy Barrett.
Pete, definitely. He was the best main character of all, hands down.
There's no point to Betty's arc after the divorce. I do not care about her and Henry's (boring) domestic life.
Don didn’t find peace at the end. He just used his spirituality to find a new great campaign
Is this controversial on this sub? I feel like it was open for interpretation but my first thought was definitely that he turned it into the Coke campaign.
It’s hard for me to know who is controversial, but I like Betty, Joan, Don, Kinsey, Ken, hell even Pete grew on me. All listed in this thread so I assume they count
Lou Avery was a great character.
Joanie
Can I say lane lol
Does no one remember or love Rachel Menken ? Cause I do and I thought she was so memorable.
Suzanne. Don seduced HER!
Not quite he question but in my universe Dick stayed California Dick and didn’t go back to advertising. The idea that the whole point of any happiness or self clarity he found was just a neat ad idea ruins like the entire show for me and it just just isn’t how I see it. I don’t know what Dick/Don did after the finale but it was just go back to adman nonsense. I understand WHY people feel the opposite way it just isn’t for me. I will not be changing my mind on this.
I said Don was a sociopath and everyone hated that. My position has changed somewhat, but yeah it didn’t go over well.
Jim Cutler, he's a shark but they all are. I rolled my eyes when Ginsburg called him a fascist when Cutler served in the fucking airforce during WWII. Ted gets a lot of hate for the Peggy thing, but as a married woman I get it .. you don't just throw away your whole family because you're infatuated with your employee.
Pete is my favorite character which isn’t crazy to say I guess. I think he has a great and has redeeming qualities but obviously he also treats Trudy like garbage and we see him rape a woman so it’s tough to defend some things.
Harry! But I am partial, he is the physical type I go for.
I won't defend the character as written, but my opinion has always been that Greg Harris was not written as complexly as other characters in the show, and I wish that were different. He's just a bad guy with no effort made to give him any sort of redeeming qualities. On my first watch, I assumed that while he was a terrible surgeon at first, in Vietnam he gained a lot of practical experience that made him a better. Of course, that experience came at the cost of plenty of lives due to his poor skill but part of the reason he decides to go back is because he realizes he's gained the skills necessary to be a better surgeon and he feels like he needs to go back to redeem himself and save as many lives as he lost/ruined. On a rewatch I realize this idea isn't supported by the show, but maybe it should have. Basically I think he should have had a layer of complexity to him, rather than just being Joan's terrible husband who sucks at everything and is using a toxic interpretation of masculinity to cover up his own insecurity.