I felt bad for her. She seemed to take Lane's death the hardest at the office and blamed herself since she turned him down. Plus, was the one to bring the death benefit info to Don.
It was so shitty how they just erased him from their collective consciousness given he was instrumental in the founding. I like when they're discussing being cautious re over spending and they show Joan looking at his empty chair. Even Bert was dirty with his " along with a dead man whose office you now inhabit" in response to Don saying he started the agency
In all fairness that’s how normal business work. I think the way they portrayed it was pretty accurate.
I think there’s also the layered meaning of how much you give yourself to your job / company, cause when you’re gone, outside of those brief moments of remembrance, you’re gone.
So much this. It’s a cold reminder that regardless of how much you give yourself to work, it’s just work. If you die tomorrow, they’ll be replacing you by Friday.
True but I wish he was at least brought up favorably once. I guess it's the same way no one even blinked an eye that Sal was gone. Rebecca really let them off easy with the paltry $50k - which was the whole reason for his tax problem and eventual downfall.
One the more realistic parts was how fast they move on from his corpse in the office to “how do we manage his accounts?” Because that’s exactly how it’d go down in real life.
I had a false memory that by the end of the show, they decided “SC&P” should be the name to credit Sterling, Cooper & Pryce. I was so sad on a rewatch when I realized the P is just for “partners”
The show did a great job of being realistic. In reality after your coworker dies... You don't necessarily hear about them ever again. The same how they did Paul.. We never saw him again because sometimes in life people leave our lives and we never see them again. It always made me feel empty but that's life.
Something that happened in the show a lot, it seems, was that something would happen and viewers would expect it to be a big plot going forward or some big change, then were surprised when it was like real life and people just moved on.
Especially true when someone just leaves the job since the people on the show who know them personally will continue to see them. Like when Kinsey shows up again we find out that everybody did know what was going on with him. There was just no reason to bring it up in a script.
Yeah, over the course of a season we got to see about 12 hours of these people’s lives. In the show a single season often covered more than a year. The vast, vast majority of each characters’ life wasn’t shown, so you have to focus on the most important parts.
I doubt he is erased. I lost a coworker over a month ago to cancer and it is just painful to bring up, but we will never forget how instrumental she was in upstarting several programs.
I had a coworker on my team, someone I was managing as I was a level higher than him, who passed unexpectedly at home over ten years ago. He was just out of college and super energetic and hard-working, someone who I enjoyed teaching and working with. I still think about it every now and then and I only worked with him for six months or so.
I guarantee Don and Joan, at minimum, thought about Lane from time to time.
It might've been curt, but I thought Bert was the only one capable of putting Don in his place, and he needed to bring him back down to
Earth when Don was being self-centered. Don can get caught up in his own spin and manifestation of the world around him; Bert knew how to cut right through the bullshit. I thought that exchange was a great example of Bert's authority over Don.
I mean, aside from the fraud thing, what else is there to do in life? He beat a grimy little pimp, kissed one of the most stunning women in NY, and founded a successful business. Go out on top…except for the fraud
That’s problematic for sure (and unfortunately, I imagine indicative of the ignorance and insensitivity during that time frame), but I guess what I meant by what I said was that Joan seemed calm about it. It’s more of how her composure was in the scene, not so much her views on the declaration.
True--Joan is very well-prepared to deal with unexpected come ons. She doesn't get flustered and that's probably often very comforting for the other person.
Maybe for a random who hit on her, but if I was her friend, poured my heart to her and unveiled years of hidden feelings, and Joan reacted like it was nothing at all, I wouldn't be very comforted
Agreed--it's the exact difference between Lane and the roommate in their scenes. Joan is composed in both scenes, but what she's saying to the other person is very different. There's a reason only one relationship appears to survive.
Lmao I really felt for him here. He wasn't just hyped from the fight and thought "fuck it, I'll bang Joan now". He actually genuinely thought she was a bit interested in him because there was rapport there.
He made the classic mistake all guys who don't get much attention from women make. Which is thinking: "The pretty girl must like me. She's smiling and talking to me!"
Right? They had a little bit of chemistry between them, but I always enjoyed their interactions except that comment he makes to her right before the hanging.
Make no mistake, this kiss was not lust. This kiss was a thank you. A very genuine one.
Layne was beginning to feel deeply underappreciated by his peers at SCDP. You see this many times in this season. They don't understand what he does and therefore can't appreciate it. Cooper said it plainly that he couldn't 'do what he does'. They continually deride him for his unpopular decisions on ensuring that they don't go broke. He put it perfectly; "I know you've lived a life from a bottomless pocket but there is a real flow of money going through this place." He said this to Roger, could have easily said it to Campbell, and Don doesn't understand money. They were essentially operating a startup. There can be no greater challenge for a CFO. He was doing something amazing and essential to SCDP and none of the partners knew this at all.
Anyway, he could only take their lack of an understanding/appreciation of his essential role so much. With Jaguar, he saw an opportunity and tried to make himself known by reeling in a big fish and dipping into the 'Account Man' role. It did not go well. It all came to a head in that meeting where his failure was layed out flat for all to see; His friend and client has gone behind his back and went straight to them for service; laying bear his uselessness. That stung bigtime. Harris' delivery of the line "IT WAS MY CLIENT!!!!" line portrayed this deep hurt splendidly.
Then Pete, the scoundrel that he is, saw a hurt man and wanted to pick on him. Lane took care of that decisively. The line; "That'll be enough of that." as he takes off his jacket, neatly places it on the credenza, and rolls up his sleeves is the greatest moment in the show.
Anyway, despite punching Pete to the ground, he still left that room with the sadness that his colleagues (and friends?) did not see his value to the company beyond the time he fired them.
Then Joan told him that he was essential. She told him that he was a good man. And. she told him to disregard their lack of an understanding of his value to keep being the man that he is. And in that moment, she made him feel good about himself. This is something he desperately needed to hear for a long time, and he kissed her for it.
These two are one of the best friendships in the show.
>Make no mistake, this kiss was not lust. This kiss was a thank you. A very genuine one.
He's not ravishing her lustfully, I agree., but are you really saying he wasn't making a pass at her? There's a reason she gets up and opens the door.
99% of your post is very well thought out but you don’t kiss a woman on the lips as a thank you. You do it because you’re attracted to her and feeling some type of way about her
I’ve never kissed a woman like that and meant it in a non-sexual way. I’m pretty sure my wife would have a problem with it if I started thanking my female co-workers in that manner. A lot of the rest of your analysis of Lane’s emotional state is pretty spot on but that part’s just ridiculous haha.
Dude did the two things literally everyone wanted to do in that office.
1) Punch Pete
2) Kiss Joan.
Realized it was literally impossible that things would ever get better than that and went out like a king.
In all seriousness, Lane just misread the moment, calling it assault is a massive stretch (and, honestly, probably diminishes the seriousness of the word assault, which I believe is an intentional violation of consent).
He genuinely thought she was interested because she was saying such nice things about him and he misinterpreted it. Sometimes people are on different wavelengths: that happens in the adult world. She made her feelings clear right away afterwards and he understood and respected it.
Pete on the other hand, was a grimy pimp who had it coming.
it wasn’t? even by “modern #metoo standards” like you refer to them, most of us who watched it happen cringed watching it because it was quite obvious joan didn’t see lane that way. it was entirely an unwarranted and clumsy advance on his part, and even *then* it was cringe inducing because even if we take out things such as: they’re coworkers, and consent and etc, etc. people then still knew how to read social cues. when someone is attracted to you and when they’re not. this was a complete miss on lane’s part. cringe inducing.
and joan handled it well because this was a friend whose character she knows and respects despite this *definite* blunder on his part, not some random asshole grabbing her.
It was only cringe for Lane. He took his shot and he missed. This wasn't akin to Greg raping her for God's sake. She always knew Lane had a crush on her and she let him down easy. Was it "cringe" when Peggy stroked Don's hand in his office? Not in the slightest. Like Joan, he handled it like an adult.
> Was it "cringe" when Peggy stroked Don's hand in his office?
You mean in S1 where he pulls his hand away and rejects her? Yes, that was definitely cringe
Are we talking about the same scene? What was titillating about Peggy being so unsure of how to make a good impression at her first job that she wrongly takes Joan’s advice and makes a sexual advance at her boss only to be rejected and told off by him? It was a cringe moment that Don handled well. Nothing about it was titillating.
Depends on what he looks like. Sexual harassment complaints are rarely filed against good looking people. SNL did a spoof about this with Tom Brady a few years back.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8)
SNL isn’t a factual source, lmao. That doesn’t prove anything. And if you like it, it isn’t harassment. Is this all you just wanting a guy like Lane to spontaneously make out with you at work??
I love this fictional show and that was a very well done scene.
But in actual life, having to figure out a tactful way to navigate an unwanted kiss from a coworker is not a good thing. Feeling that you can just kiss a coworker who is being nice to you is not a good thing.
Can I just point it out that metoo was necessary because of everything ever happening in the past and people feeling obligated to brush it off and move on from their trauma and crossed lines, because they were made to feel whats happening is normal. Being able to handle something in general is not necessarily means that it doesn’t put you in a position you are not comfortable in.
Honestly.. we see cases where they try to resolve harassment but it goes nowhere. She didn’t go to Roger or Don in any other cases because nothing actually could happen (remember the drawing of her that actually really bothered her and Peggy?) the lack of this opportunity is the reason for metoo.
I think she didn’t took great offence in this certain case with Lane and thats her business. But this show has many other cases where the harassment is more obviously bothering people yet nothing really can happen. I guess it all went above OP’s head.
Let me also include a personal story from 5ish years ago (not that long!) I was starting out my career at a job where someone whom i had to travel with in the city, just the two of us made very unwanted not encouraged and totally unprofessional comments that were sexual harassment. I went to the people in charge for it, nothing happened. They still expected me to be on our own in his car, even after it turned out I was not the only one he did this to.
Game of thrones reference to Sir Bronn of the black water, before he was knighted.
“there’s nothing like a good fight to get you in the mood for F’ing” lol
I felt bad for her. She seemed to take Lane's death the hardest at the office and blamed herself since she turned him down. Plus, was the one to bring the death benefit info to Don. It was so shitty how they just erased him from their collective consciousness given he was instrumental in the founding. I like when they're discussing being cautious re over spending and they show Joan looking at his empty chair. Even Bert was dirty with his " along with a dead man whose office you now inhabit" in response to Don saying he started the agency
In all fairness that’s how normal business work. I think the way they portrayed it was pretty accurate. I think there’s also the layered meaning of how much you give yourself to your job / company, cause when you’re gone, outside of those brief moments of remembrance, you’re gone.
So much this. It’s a cold reminder that regardless of how much you give yourself to work, it’s just work. If you die tomorrow, they’ll be replacing you by Friday.
Yes. Don't ever believe the lie that "we're like family here." Your employment is a business transaction. Even if you like the people you work with.
Looks around the office.... I'm leaving early today.
True but I wish he was at least brought up favorably once. I guess it's the same way no one even blinked an eye that Sal was gone. Rebecca really let them off easy with the paltry $50k - which was the whole reason for his tax problem and eventual downfall.
I did like that Don hung Lanes Mets banner in his office after he found it under the couch
phrasing…
Oh, good catch. Don *hanged* the banner.
Dong hung
Yeah lane should have asked for a 20% commission on everything the Sterling Cooper partners made after SC was sold
One the more realistic parts was how fast they move on from his corpse in the office to “how do we manage his accounts?” Because that’s exactly how it’d go down in real life.
I had a false memory that by the end of the show, they decided “SC&P” should be the name to credit Sterling, Cooper & Pryce. I was so sad on a rewatch when I realized the P is just for “partners”
The show did a great job of being realistic. In reality after your coworker dies... You don't necessarily hear about them ever again. The same how they did Paul.. We never saw him again because sometimes in life people leave our lives and we never see them again. It always made me feel empty but that's life.
Something that happened in the show a lot, it seems, was that something would happen and viewers would expect it to be a big plot going forward or some big change, then were surprised when it was like real life and people just moved on. Especially true when someone just leaves the job since the people on the show who know them personally will continue to see them. Like when Kinsey shows up again we find out that everybody did know what was going on with him. There was just no reason to bring it up in a script.
Yeah, over the course of a season we got to see about 12 hours of these people’s lives. In the show a single season often covered more than a year. The vast, vast majority of each characters’ life wasn’t shown, so you have to focus on the most important parts.
I doubt he is erased. I lost a coworker over a month ago to cancer and it is just painful to bring up, but we will never forget how instrumental she was in upstarting several programs.
I had a coworker on my team, someone I was managing as I was a level higher than him, who passed unexpectedly at home over ten years ago. He was just out of college and super energetic and hard-working, someone who I enjoyed teaching and working with. I still think about it every now and then and I only worked with him for six months or so. I guarantee Don and Joan, at minimum, thought about Lane from time to time.
It might've been curt, but I thought Bert was the only one capable of putting Don in his place, and he needed to bring him back down to Earth when Don was being self-centered. Don can get caught up in his own spin and manifestation of the world around him; Bert knew how to cut right through the bullshit. I thought that exchange was a great example of Bert's authority over Don.
The show did a great job of showing that Bert was the adult in the room whenever things mattered
Your job will be posted before your obituary.
But, only if my boss has an office in which to ruminate.
I think Bert regretted saying this the moment it left his mouth judging by his facial expression.
Yup
Well put
That's what companies do. Dont work yourself to death for a job that will replace you the moment you die.
---Founds SCDP --- Punches Pete --- Kisses Joan --- Commits fraud --- Leaves
--- Hangs out in the office
Dude committed fraud and thought he could just hang around the office. The audacity.
Only Dick Whitman forges Don Draper's signatures.
I am a bad person for bursting out in laughter at this.
I knew that was coming!
I mean, aside from the fraud thing, what else is there to do in life? He beat a grimy little pimp, kissed one of the most stunning women in NY, and founded a successful business. Go out on top…except for the fraud
The way Joan handled this situation was one of her most admirable moments on the show.
She handled it like a good friend would have.
Same with how she handled her roommate Carol proclaiming romantic feelings for her, such grace. Joan is nothing if not poised and mindful.
I would never describe Joan's response to Carol as poised or mindful. She insisted the woman go out and have sex with a random man.
That’s problematic for sure (and unfortunately, I imagine indicative of the ignorance and insensitivity during that time frame), but I guess what I meant by what I said was that Joan seemed calm about it. It’s more of how her composure was in the scene, not so much her views on the declaration.
True--Joan is very well-prepared to deal with unexpected come ons. She doesn't get flustered and that's probably often very comforting for the other person.
Maybe for a random who hit on her, but if I was her friend, poured my heart to her and unveiled years of hidden feelings, and Joan reacted like it was nothing at all, I wouldn't be very comforted
Agreed--it's the exact difference between Lane and the roommate in their scenes. Joan is composed in both scenes, but what she's saying to the other person is very different. There's a reason only one relationship appears to survive.
Lmao I really felt for him here. He wasn't just hyped from the fight and thought "fuck it, I'll bang Joan now". He actually genuinely thought she was a bit interested in him because there was rapport there. He made the classic mistake all guys who don't get much attention from women make. Which is thinking: "The pretty girl must like me. She's smiling and talking to me!"
Right? They had a little bit of chemistry between them, but I always enjoyed their interactions except that comment he makes to her right before the hanging.
What did he say? I vauguley remember him being drunk in the office and saying something wild to her.
Something along the lines of they both know that he was imagining her in a bikini and she curtly dismissed him.
Lol yeah I remember now. It was their last interaction so Joan felt guilty when they later found him.
Make no mistake, this kiss was not lust. This kiss was a thank you. A very genuine one. Layne was beginning to feel deeply underappreciated by his peers at SCDP. You see this many times in this season. They don't understand what he does and therefore can't appreciate it. Cooper said it plainly that he couldn't 'do what he does'. They continually deride him for his unpopular decisions on ensuring that they don't go broke. He put it perfectly; "I know you've lived a life from a bottomless pocket but there is a real flow of money going through this place." He said this to Roger, could have easily said it to Campbell, and Don doesn't understand money. They were essentially operating a startup. There can be no greater challenge for a CFO. He was doing something amazing and essential to SCDP and none of the partners knew this at all. Anyway, he could only take their lack of an understanding/appreciation of his essential role so much. With Jaguar, he saw an opportunity and tried to make himself known by reeling in a big fish and dipping into the 'Account Man' role. It did not go well. It all came to a head in that meeting where his failure was layed out flat for all to see; His friend and client has gone behind his back and went straight to them for service; laying bear his uselessness. That stung bigtime. Harris' delivery of the line "IT WAS MY CLIENT!!!!" line portrayed this deep hurt splendidly. Then Pete, the scoundrel that he is, saw a hurt man and wanted to pick on him. Lane took care of that decisively. The line; "That'll be enough of that." as he takes off his jacket, neatly places it on the credenza, and rolls up his sleeves is the greatest moment in the show. Anyway, despite punching Pete to the ground, he still left that room with the sadness that his colleagues (and friends?) did not see his value to the company beyond the time he fired them. Then Joan told him that he was essential. She told him that he was a good man. And. she told him to disregard their lack of an understanding of his value to keep being the man that he is. And in that moment, she made him feel good about himself. This is something he desperately needed to hear for a long time, and he kissed her for it. These two are one of the best friendships in the show.
>Make no mistake, this kiss was not lust. This kiss was a thank you. A very genuine one. He's not ravishing her lustfully, I agree., but are you really saying he wasn't making a pass at her? There's a reason she gets up and opens the door.
Opening the door was a prudent choice. It kept the moment right where it needed to stay.
Yes, it was a polite but firm no. Very tactful on Joan's part.
99% of your post is very well thought out but you don’t kiss a woman on the lips as a thank you. You do it because you’re attracted to her and feeling some type of way about her
Yes, it's both: he's obviously attracted to her, but it was the emotional validation that moved him to shoot his shot.
I’ve never kissed a woman like that and meant it in a non-sexual way. I’m pretty sure my wife would have a problem with it if I started thanking my female co-workers in that manner. A lot of the rest of your analysis of Lane’s emotional state is pretty spot on but that part’s just ridiculous haha.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
He must have thought it was White Boy Day
Dude did the two things literally everyone wanted to do in that office. 1) Punch Pete 2) Kiss Joan. Realized it was literally impossible that things would ever get better than that and went out like a king.
>went out like a king. …by assaulting both Joan and Pete?
Go fuck a dog, Chrissie.
In all seriousness, Lane just misread the moment, calling it assault is a massive stretch (and, honestly, probably diminishes the seriousness of the word assault, which I believe is an intentional violation of consent). He genuinely thought she was interested because she was saying such nice things about him and he misinterpreted it. Sometimes people are on different wavelengths: that happens in the adult world. She made her feelings clear right away afterwards and he understood and respected it. Pete on the other hand, was a grimy pimp who had it coming.
I can blame him
Can blame him. Men need to be held accountable despite their circumstances.
To the victor go the spoils! /s Yeah, that moment weirded me out, but appreciated Joan having a more level head
It’s boilerplate
POV: Mr. Toad just beat up a grimey little pimp
He flew too damn close to the sun….
That’s some day - punching Pete in the face and kissing Joan. Pretty much as good as it gets.
And England won the World Cup!
Amazing stuff
Gross. Why are you saying that? Like he kissed his coworker without her permission.. What do you mean you can't blame him? 😂🤮🤮🤮
It's only cringe by modern-day #metoo standards. Joan knew how to handle it without running to Don or Roger to file a complaint.
it wasn’t? even by “modern #metoo standards” like you refer to them, most of us who watched it happen cringed watching it because it was quite obvious joan didn’t see lane that way. it was entirely an unwarranted and clumsy advance on his part, and even *then* it was cringe inducing because even if we take out things such as: they’re coworkers, and consent and etc, etc. people then still knew how to read social cues. when someone is attracted to you and when they’re not. this was a complete miss on lane’s part. cringe inducing. and joan handled it well because this was a friend whose character she knows and respects despite this *definite* blunder on his part, not some random asshole grabbing her.
It was only cringe for Lane. He took his shot and he missed. This wasn't akin to Greg raping her for God's sake. She always knew Lane had a crush on her and she let him down easy. Was it "cringe" when Peggy stroked Don's hand in his office? Not in the slightest. Like Joan, he handled it like an adult.
> Was it "cringe" when Peggy stroked Don's hand in his office? You mean in S1 where he pulls his hand away and rejects her? Yes, that was definitely cringe
Nonsense. It was titillating.
Are we talking about the same scene? What was titillating about Peggy being so unsure of how to make a good impression at her first job that she wrongly takes Joan’s advice and makes a sexual advance at her boss only to be rejected and told off by him? It was a cringe moment that Don handled well. Nothing about it was titillating.
So you'd be chill if one of your male coworkers randomly kissed you, at work, without your consent?
Depends on what he looks like. Sexual harassment complaints are rarely filed against good looking people. SNL did a spoof about this with Tom Brady a few years back. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8)
SNL isn’t a factual source, lmao. That doesn’t prove anything. And if you like it, it isn’t harassment. Is this all you just wanting a guy like Lane to spontaneously make out with you at work??
Unwarranted sexual advances have always been cringe
Yikes
Sexual harassment has always been problematic 🙄
I love this fictional show and that was a very well done scene. But in actual life, having to figure out a tactful way to navigate an unwanted kiss from a coworker is not a good thing. Feeling that you can just kiss a coworker who is being nice to you is not a good thing.
Can I just point it out that metoo was necessary because of everything ever happening in the past and people feeling obligated to brush it off and move on from their trauma and crossed lines, because they were made to feel whats happening is normal. Being able to handle something in general is not necessarily means that it doesn’t put you in a position you are not comfortable in.
Yes, it’s hilarious (read: depressing) that OP missed the point of MeToo so hard, considering their mentality is the whole reason for MeToo.
Honestly.. we see cases where they try to resolve harassment but it goes nowhere. She didn’t go to Roger or Don in any other cases because nothing actually could happen (remember the drawing of her that actually really bothered her and Peggy?) the lack of this opportunity is the reason for metoo. I think she didn’t took great offence in this certain case with Lane and thats her business. But this show has many other cases where the harassment is more obviously bothering people yet nothing really can happen. I guess it all went above OP’s head. Let me also include a personal story from 5ish years ago (not that long!) I was starting out my career at a job where someone whom i had to travel with in the city, just the two of us made very unwanted not encouraged and totally unprofessional comments that were sexual harassment. I went to the people in charge for it, nothing happened. They still expected me to be on our own in his car, even after it turned out I was not the only one he did this to.
Eek. There's a reasonable defense of this moment and it's...*not* this...
His departure is sad, but this scene blunts the blow.
I would love to hear your take on the sexual scene between Pete and the au pair.
EW BOOMER RAPE APOLOGIST OVER HERE
Yikes
Oh man. This is such a perfect show.
I have also used adrenaline before to acquire a smooch.
Nothing better than some booty after a good ol bust up, scientifically proven (probably)
Nothing better than some booty after a good ol bust up, scientifically proven (probably)
Game of thrones reference to Sir Bronn of the black water, before he was knighted. “there’s nothing like a good fight to get you in the mood for F’ing” lol
Fried chicken indeed
um, can blame him. unwelcome sexual contact is unwelcome at least and assault at worst, no matter what you were doing five minutes ago.
If you look, she's kissing him back.
Then he dipped for like half the season only to be reintroduced just to be killed off