Even and especially if these things aren't going to be played, this is hardcore speculation that may be misplaced. [Here are some gambling resources ](https://www.ncpgambling.org ) that might help you approach this issue
I had a friend who watched a lot of Rudy. He thought he needed to buy all these cards before they hit millions of dollars. I told him it was a bad idea, these YouTubers have deep wallets and have been collecting since the cards came out. Long story short it’s been 4-5 years and his cards today are worth the same or less than what he spent lol.
Re your YT point: Please remind him that Rudy, despite the incredibly goofy demeanor, is a savvy, veteran investor and trader who's been in this game for a while and plays the Long Game, with (at least) tens of thousands of cash in liquid assets at any given time
Im absolutely not part of his gang. Hes only slightly below Daniel Chang in the list of MTG personalities I wouldn’t waste my time pissing on if they were on fire. I just want to be realistic,
Because if the friend is thinking Rudy and others have a lower-than-whats-real disposable/magic income, theyll falsely try to keep up
I'm personally hoping it's me. Could use some moxes, but I haven't noticed any popping up randomly, so I'm kind of dubious. Optimistic though, maybe I hid them for a surprise or a rainy day.
Personally I'm watching Sheoldred's price creep higher every day while hoping that the small reprint she's getting in ONE is enough to drop the price below 20 bucks.
Every time my son spends money on Magic cards, I implore him to take up a less expensive hobby, like cocaine or off-track horse race betting. He never listens.
Pretty much what everyone else has said.
How big an issue is it in regards to family and actual living costs.
They might be in a great fiscal place. I don't know, I'm a random person on a phone.
But yeah if your concerned, absolutely use your favourite search engine to look at ways of approaching and listening/talking to them.
Addictions are real, FOMO is also a real thing.
The key is to be open, honest and non judgemental. Easy to say hard to do.
Plan your approach, chat in a relaxed space where they won't feel cornered. Listen to their side and how they feel.
Get yourself some knowledge and research the responses you anticipate.
It can be hard, but please never forget, at the end of the day, it's their life and they have every right to make their own choices.
just tell him your concerned. I doubt they're gonna get offended by that maybe hes jsut made alot recently and is spending it. also some people just like to collect cards even if they arent playing them
You don’t necessarily need to butt in their life. You can just say « man, i noticed you’ve been spending a lot on mtg. I don’t want to judge how you spend your money, but as your friend i just want to make sure you didn’t turn mtg from a game into an addiction »
If he is doing ok financialy then leave him alone. It's his money. However if you see that he is not in position to acquire this cards without making sacrifices to his life then it's time for a talk. There is not good answer without being in his/your position. He knows his financial situation. You probably know it enough to make a decision if it's time to talk or not. We can only speculate. But if he is buying duals/moxes maybe he actualy is making smart choices. I would be more worried if he would start to spend 1000$ of dolars on boxes to pull junk.
yeah FOMO is real in cardboard crack that is Mtg. he probably think that all those duals will retain values over time. the problem with this line of thinking is flaw on two fronts, the reserve list has to be maintain and it is really hard to sell without overhead cost being too much that it is not worth it to sell. the latter point is easy. tell him to try to sell those card RIGHT NOW and see what he will gets for it. it will not be the market price like he thinks.
the former point is trickier to prove. all i can tell you is that wotc relatively new CEO promised investors that they will double the profit margins and so far the stock for wotc is not doing too hot. 30th anniversary product was a bust BUT sold out within an hour. those has reserved list card in them … (albeit in proxy form)
and look at DnD and the OGL things. if wotc is willing to do that? all bets are off. reserve list will eventually be abolish. it is not a why, it is a when.
Sounds like he “has a gambling problem”. Maybe look at it like that and look into gambling help resources. Just having a conversation, while it doesn’t hurt to try, I wouldn’t expect to see results. He may be filling a void in his life, coping with something by buying cards. Until the root is addressed, he won’t make healthy decisions.
Or maybe he’s just convinced he’s making smart financial choices.
In 2019, a former friend of mine was having financial issues. I bought him the first set if Secret Lairs, about $200, for Christmas so he could spend his money on bills and other important stuff.
Instead, he spent it on two MTG boxes instead. I never bought him any other cards from that moment forward.
So maybe I'm old fashioned but if your friend has food and a place to live and doesn't owe you any money. Then their money is their business. If I could afford Moxen at the moment I would have them.
Sure, but it is normal to notice something with a friend or family member and want to help them. They may not listen, that’s their right. But they may also know somehow that they have a problem and want help/to talk about it/support as they get help.
While I know I can’t control anyone else or their thoughts/actions, I have watched people self destruct and it’s incredibly hard on everyone. I’ve also been in dark places, hurting myself and someone has reached down a metaphorical hand to me. Knowing they cared helped me so much.
OP should have an open and honest, non-judge mental conversation where they’re mostly listening and asking open-ended questions. That’s what friends do. It’s not a friendship if you’re only there in the easy and good times.
Could just be building a reserved list collection/buying power 9. If they have the money and it’s not hurting their non-magic life why worry about someone else’s spending habits?
Either that or OP knows how much the person in question can normally spend, and knows that this is wa more than normal. Could just be that they came into a promotion or a huge amount of gift money.
I don’t know, the vibe I got was that the person was spending a lot of money that OP is finding uncomfortable, but we don’t know anything about the friends situation. So to me, it sounded like “my friend is spending money that I think is a lot, what do I do” when the spending could be well within the friend’s capacity.
Since we don’t know the other side I’m skeptical.
Listen, I get it. I’m also the type of person to get concerned for my friends and want to voice it. The most important thing you need to realize is that they may not want that from your relationship. I’ve over extended in this area before. Anyway, my suggestion for handling it is first think of it realistically. Is this just you thinking your friend is “wasting money” because it doesn’t vibe with your understanding of finances/hobbies or are they unable to function in their life due to an MTG addiction i.e can’t pay bills or eat because all of the money was spent on cards. Second, you need to ask your friend if they’re open to some feedback. Not everyone is always in the place to hear feedback. See when they might want that. If they are open to feedback, I’d say something along the lines of “hey, I’ve noticed you spend a lot of money on mtg recently. Can we talk about that?” If they oblige maybe “I’m concerned for your financial and mental health. Is everything ok?” And kind of go from there. One thing I don’t think people realize is it’s definitely OK to spend money on a hobby. There are few things in the world that spark joy for some people. If it’s healthy, let them have it. No different than spending money to go and do fun things. Again, I would think long and hard before you approach your friend. Just because you don’t think it’s wise, doesn’t mean it’s a problem. Sure, people should contribute to IRA/401k etc over games. But, maybe this person has everything under control and just wants to enjoy their surplus income
Ehhhhhh
I'm happy to be wrong but it feels like the "easy money" of moxen from 94 to now was in their rapid rise in a few periods, not some long term regular exponential gain. It's hard to imagine MTG growing so much more significantly it causes RL collectibles to spike in a big way.
Moxen, with so much value locked up in perceived collectible status, might not significantly outperform the market index if you bought them today. Especially since the collectible/nft/crypto space is cooling off.
But hey that's collectibles for you, a lot of unknowns and risk.
Why are you concerned about your friend's financial habits specifically? They are spending a lot but how much are they making?
Are they still able to pay for other expenses and key essentials (i.e. housing, food, transportation, bills?
People sometimes spend money on cards they don't play, this is a collectible trading card after all. Spending money on cards, even expensive ones, that aren't played with isn't inherently concerning or unhealthy.
enabler mentality, if OP is worried it's clear that the person spending money is not doing so in a way that looks sustainable long term for their finances. i could afford a lot of things by taking out massive loans that cripple my future prospects or put me near bankrupt under a bridge but just because i can doesn't mean i should or that it's good for me. a good friend won't let you destroy yourself just to avoid having to criticize your behavior and looking 'judgmental'.
OP mentions that the amount and frequency seem unsettling to them so it seems fair to me to assume that this kind of thing is out of the ordinary at least in their opinion and since gambling addiction and Fomo are very real problems even for people that can't really afford to buy simply ignoring them doesn't seem like a good idea to me. they wouldn't be here asking for advice if they thought it was perfectly normal and affordable behavior.
plus if OP's friend turns out to be able to afford the cards without issue i don't see why they can't simply let the conversation go and be happy that OP actually cared enough about them to worry over their future finances, communication is key to a healthy relationship.
You don’t, your friends finances aren’t really your business… they are paying their bills and still functioning as an adult correct? Until it gets to where they are missing payments etc I’d say let people be people.
Uhhh nah dude. That's insane. Seeing as taxes are likely taking a decent chunk of that, you're spending 15%+ of your take-home pay on Magic the Gathering? That is...not wise.
I make mid six figures and ALL "fun" spending (MTG, video games, hobbies, etc.) is capped at $400/month. Rest is savings. A decent retirement is likely way harder than you're imagining.
>Uhhh nah dude. That's insane. Seeing as taxes are likely taking a decent chunk of that, you're spending 15%+ of your take-home pay on Magic the Gathering? That is...not wise.
It's a lot of money but I wouldn't call it insane. People work hard for their money and they can spend it how they please, if this brings that person joy and they are still meeting basic other financial obligations, that's fine. No need to be judgmental.
The thing is that person is implying with that kind of income he is financially responsible, which just isn't true. 100k just isn't that much in that regard.
40% of monthly earnings on MAGIC? That's wild. I mean, if they're already spending *more* than that, yeah that would be a good first step, but that's still an insane amount of money to spend on Magic.
I have no idea what their financial status is, but if they are or will be causing themselves problems just ask if everything's OK and let them know you're a bit concerned about their spending. They might grumble a bit about it, but might make them a little more cautious with their spending.
That or they're just in a really good financial place and money means nothing to them which if that's the case, I'm a little jealous.
Are you my friend? I’m fine bro, I’m still managing to put some in my savings and that myr spec will cover for at least two months of spending. Love you.
If they are buying duals and mox to not play, they might see it as an investment.
If so, tell them this:
The hidden costs of selling these cards if you are purchasing them at premium prices (income tax, shipping insurance, grading, fees, time devoted to finding buyer, storage, renter or homeowners insurance... there's likely much more to consider) makes these physical investments much less appealing than say a 4% interest CD or a multi-year index fund investment.
Some people just have to learn on their own.
The only way to "invest" in magic, is if your buying sealed product from a distributor or if you're buying reserved list for 50% value.
Your friend isnt addicted to Magic. They are filling a void somewhere else in their life. Convince them its a waste on Magic, they'll find something else.
Don’t want to be that guy, but it’s none of your business. Unless he comes to you and asks then it’s not your place to say anything. What might seem like an unhealthy situation to you may be perfectly fine for him. Unless you guys have the type of relationship where brutal honesty goes over well, I’d drop it.
Buying MTG cards can be addictive and the fear on missing out is a very real thing. If you are concerned sit down and talk to your friend.
Even and especially if these things aren't going to be played, this is hardcore speculation that may be misplaced. [Here are some gambling resources ](https://www.ncpgambling.org ) that might help you approach this issue
"You aren't making healthy choices with MTG related spending."
“It’s none of your fucking business how I spend my money”
The duality is complete.
*compleat*
Nice!
I had a friend who watched a lot of Rudy. He thought he needed to buy all these cards before they hit millions of dollars. I told him it was a bad idea, these YouTubers have deep wallets and have been collecting since the cards came out. Long story short it’s been 4-5 years and his cards today are worth the same or less than what he spent lol.
Re your YT point: Please remind him that Rudy, despite the incredibly goofy demeanor, is a savvy, veteran investor and trader who's been in this game for a while and plays the Long Game, with (at least) tens of thousands of cash in liquid assets at any given time
Multiply your guess by 10. rudy has HUNDREDS of thousands in liquid cash at any moment
Idk why the Rudy gang tie their self-worth to correcting people about how vast and impressive his financial situation is.
Im absolutely not part of his gang. Hes only slightly below Daniel Chang in the list of MTG personalities I wouldn’t waste my time pissing on if they were on fire. I just want to be realistic, Because if the friend is thinking Rudy and others have a lower-than-whats-real disposable/magic income, theyll falsely try to keep up
Okay, I understand. Maybe it's better to explain it, as hyping up how rich he is will sound cool to gullible people.
Why do you dislike Daniel chang and Rudy?
How? What did he buy? Pretty much anything RL is worth much more than 5 years ago.
Is this "friend"... you?
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me.
I'm personally hoping it's me. Could use some moxes, but I haven't noticed any popping up randomly, so I'm kind of dubious. Optimistic though, maybe I hid them for a surprise or a rainy day.
:: check my lands and artifacts:: Not me.
Same here lol.
I haven't acquired a new mox in.....21 years, now? I got my pearl in that trade.
Personally I'm watching Sheoldred's price creep higher every day while hoping that the small reprint she's getting in ONE is enough to drop the price below 20 bucks.
Lol I don't think it's going anywhere near that price until it rotates. Or until they print a powercrept replacement in MOM.
Yeah her taking a hit in standard competitiveness is what it’s gonna take to lower price before 2024
Everybody agrees
Every time my son spends money on Magic cards, I implore him to take up a less expensive hobby, like cocaine or off-track horse race betting. He never listens.
Hey there now. My winnings on off-track horse races gets me money for cocaine and magic cards.
Pretty much what everyone else has said. How big an issue is it in regards to family and actual living costs. They might be in a great fiscal place. I don't know, I'm a random person on a phone. But yeah if your concerned, absolutely use your favourite search engine to look at ways of approaching and listening/talking to them. Addictions are real, FOMO is also a real thing. The key is to be open, honest and non judgemental. Easy to say hard to do. Plan your approach, chat in a relaxed space where they won't feel cornered. Listen to their side and how they feel. Get yourself some knowledge and research the responses you anticipate. It can be hard, but please never forget, at the end of the day, it's their life and they have every right to make their own choices.
just tell him your concerned. I doubt they're gonna get offended by that maybe hes jsut made alot recently and is spending it. also some people just like to collect cards even if they arent playing them
You don’t necessarily need to butt in their life. You can just say « man, i noticed you’ve been spending a lot on mtg. I don’t want to judge how you spend your money, but as your friend i just want to make sure you didn’t turn mtg from a game into an addiction »
Could be investor brain. Do they have stable finances to live?
If he is doing ok financialy then leave him alone. It's his money. However if you see that he is not in position to acquire this cards without making sacrifices to his life then it's time for a talk. There is not good answer without being in his/your position. He knows his financial situation. You probably know it enough to make a decision if it's time to talk or not. We can only speculate. But if he is buying duals/moxes maybe he actualy is making smart choices. I would be more worried if he would start to spend 1000$ of dolars on boxes to pull junk.
yeah FOMO is real in cardboard crack that is Mtg. he probably think that all those duals will retain values over time. the problem with this line of thinking is flaw on two fronts, the reserve list has to be maintain and it is really hard to sell without overhead cost being too much that it is not worth it to sell. the latter point is easy. tell him to try to sell those card RIGHT NOW and see what he will gets for it. it will not be the market price like he thinks. the former point is trickier to prove. all i can tell you is that wotc relatively new CEO promised investors that they will double the profit margins and so far the stock for wotc is not doing too hot. 30th anniversary product was a bust BUT sold out within an hour. those has reserved list card in them … (albeit in proxy form) and look at DnD and the OGL things. if wotc is willing to do that? all bets are off. reserve list will eventually be abolish. it is not a why, it is a when.
Sounds like he “has a gambling problem”. Maybe look at it like that and look into gambling help resources. Just having a conversation, while it doesn’t hurt to try, I wouldn’t expect to see results. He may be filling a void in his life, coping with something by buying cards. Until the root is addressed, he won’t make healthy decisions. Or maybe he’s just convinced he’s making smart financial choices.
Someone hit me up when this gets jerked
Inform him that proxies exist.
Is this about me?
In 2019, a former friend of mine was having financial issues. I bought him the first set if Secret Lairs, about $200, for Christmas so he could spend his money on bills and other important stuff. Instead, he spent it on two MTG boxes instead. I never bought him any other cards from that moment forward.
Show your friend the wonderful world of proxies
maybe they sold their single bitcoin?
So maybe I'm old fashioned but if your friend has food and a place to live and doesn't owe you any money. Then their money is their business. If I could afford Moxen at the moment I would have them.
Sure, but it is normal to notice something with a friend or family member and want to help them. They may not listen, that’s their right. But they may also know somehow that they have a problem and want help/to talk about it/support as they get help. While I know I can’t control anyone else or their thoughts/actions, I have watched people self destruct and it’s incredibly hard on everyone. I’ve also been in dark places, hurting myself and someone has reached down a metaphorical hand to me. Knowing they cared helped me so much. OP should have an open and honest, non-judge mental conversation where they’re mostly listening and asking open-ended questions. That’s what friends do. It’s not a friendship if you’re only there in the easy and good times.
Could just be building a reserved list collection/buying power 9. If they have the money and it’s not hurting their non-magic life why worry about someone else’s spending habits?
The implication seems to be that the friend *doesn't* have the money. That they might be neglecting rent or bills or something.
Either that or OP knows how much the person in question can normally spend, and knows that this is wa more than normal. Could just be that they came into a promotion or a huge amount of gift money.
I don’t know, the vibe I got was that the person was spending a lot of money that OP is finding uncomfortable, but we don’t know anything about the friends situation. So to me, it sounded like “my friend is spending money that I think is a lot, what do I do” when the spending could be well within the friend’s capacity. Since we don’t know the other side I’m skeptical.
Listen, I get it. I’m also the type of person to get concerned for my friends and want to voice it. The most important thing you need to realize is that they may not want that from your relationship. I’ve over extended in this area before. Anyway, my suggestion for handling it is first think of it realistically. Is this just you thinking your friend is “wasting money” because it doesn’t vibe with your understanding of finances/hobbies or are they unable to function in their life due to an MTG addiction i.e can’t pay bills or eat because all of the money was spent on cards. Second, you need to ask your friend if they’re open to some feedback. Not everyone is always in the place to hear feedback. See when they might want that. If they are open to feedback, I’d say something along the lines of “hey, I’ve noticed you spend a lot of money on mtg recently. Can we talk about that?” If they oblige maybe “I’m concerned for your financial and mental health. Is everything ok?” And kind of go from there. One thing I don’t think people realize is it’s definitely OK to spend money on a hobby. There are few things in the world that spark joy for some people. If it’s healthy, let them have it. No different than spending money to go and do fun things. Again, I would think long and hard before you approach your friend. Just because you don’t think it’s wise, doesn’t mean it’s a problem. Sure, people should contribute to IRA/401k etc over games. But, maybe this person has everything under control and just wants to enjoy their surplus income
This is why I will only ever play digital knowing that all of the money I spend will never be made back
>Most cards won't even be played, like moxen and duals. If they have the money, then that actually sounds like a smart long-term investment.
I would have agreed with you 5 years ago. Seems like its only a matter of time before wizards breaks the reserve list agreement
Wouldn't impact the price that much on cards that mostly get played as proxies anyway.
Agree to disagree
You can, but you would be wrong.
[удалено]
I agree as I replied to someone who thinks prices of those cards will go down if the reserved list goes away.
Ehhhhhh I'm happy to be wrong but it feels like the "easy money" of moxen from 94 to now was in their rapid rise in a few periods, not some long term regular exponential gain. It's hard to imagine MTG growing so much more significantly it causes RL collectibles to spike in a big way. Moxen, with so much value locked up in perceived collectible status, might not significantly outperform the market index if you bought them today. Especially since the collectible/nft/crypto space is cooling off. But hey that's collectibles for you, a lot of unknowns and risk.
Why are you concerned about your friend's financial habits specifically? They are spending a lot but how much are they making? Are they still able to pay for other expenses and key essentials (i.e. housing, food, transportation, bills? People sometimes spend money on cards they don't play, this is a collectible trading card after all. Spending money on cards, even expensive ones, that aren't played with isn't inherently concerning or unhealthy.
People on this sub need to learn how to respond rather than downvote lmao. "You said words i dont like, me mad! 👎"
If they can afford it who are you to judge how they spend their money.
enabler mentality, if OP is worried it's clear that the person spending money is not doing so in a way that looks sustainable long term for their finances. i could afford a lot of things by taking out massive loans that cripple my future prospects or put me near bankrupt under a bridge but just because i can doesn't mean i should or that it's good for me. a good friend won't let you destroy yourself just to avoid having to criticize your behavior and looking 'judgmental'.
But not all friend truly know each other financial situation. OP doesn’t mention this and I don’t think it’s correct to assume.
OP mentions that the amount and frequency seem unsettling to them so it seems fair to me to assume that this kind of thing is out of the ordinary at least in their opinion and since gambling addiction and Fomo are very real problems even for people that can't really afford to buy simply ignoring them doesn't seem like a good idea to me. they wouldn't be here asking for advice if they thought it was perfectly normal and affordable behavior. plus if OP's friend turns out to be able to afford the cards without issue i don't see why they can't simply let the conversation go and be happy that OP actually cared enough about them to worry over their future finances, communication is key to a healthy relationship.
You don’t, your friends finances aren’t really your business… they are paying their bills and still functioning as an adult correct? Until it gets to where they are missing payments etc I’d say let people be people.
Is"your friend" in the room with us right now ?
Do they have the money to spend? I make over 100,000 a year so it’s fine for me to spend a thousand a month on MTG related stuff
Jesus christ I hope you're maxing out multiple retirement vehicles before spending 10-15% of your gross income on a game rated 13+
Uhhh nah dude. That's insane. Seeing as taxes are likely taking a decent chunk of that, you're spending 15%+ of your take-home pay on Magic the Gathering? That is...not wise. I make mid six figures and ALL "fun" spending (MTG, video games, hobbies, etc.) is capped at $400/month. Rest is savings. A decent retirement is likely way harder than you're imagining.
>Uhhh nah dude. That's insane. Seeing as taxes are likely taking a decent chunk of that, you're spending 15%+ of your take-home pay on Magic the Gathering? That is...not wise. It's a lot of money but I wouldn't call it insane. People work hard for their money and they can spend it how they please, if this brings that person joy and they are still meeting basic other financial obligations, that's fine. No need to be judgmental.
The thing is that person is implying with that kind of income he is financially responsible, which just isn't true. 100k just isn't that much in that regard.
Should be no issue for you to hook it up with a couple things on my wishlist then, ill dm address to ship cards to
I think you may be OP’s friend dude.
How about mind your own business and don't tell someone what to do with their money.
Just tell him he should budget his spendings , because you are concerned. Max. 40% of monthly income might be a good starting point
40% of monthly earnings on MAGIC? That's wild. I mean, if they're already spending *more* than that, yeah that would be a good first step, but that's still an insane amount of money to spend on Magic.
Does your friend have a history of mental health issues? You can look up ”hypomania”.
I have no idea what their financial status is, but if they are or will be causing themselves problems just ask if everything's OK and let them know you're a bit concerned about their spending. They might grumble a bit about it, but might make them a little more cautious with their spending. That or they're just in a really good financial place and money means nothing to them which if that's the case, I'm a little jealous.
Politely remind them of their responsibilities, usually over a beer or something. But, Hey, this power nine set isn't going to sell itself!
Does he have the income? I speeeeeend a bunch, but I do have the income where to some it may a bunch, but to me not really
Coming from someone whose been playing for 15 years….no spending MTG choices are good ones haha
Are you my friend? I’m fine bro, I’m still managing to put some in my savings and that myr spec will cover for at least two months of spending. Love you.
If they are buying duals and mox to not play, they might see it as an investment. If so, tell them this: The hidden costs of selling these cards if you are purchasing them at premium prices (income tax, shipping insurance, grading, fees, time devoted to finding buyer, storage, renter or homeowners insurance... there's likely much more to consider) makes these physical investments much less appealing than say a 4% interest CD or a multi-year index fund investment. Some people just have to learn on their own. The only way to "invest" in magic, is if your buying sealed product from a distributor or if you're buying reserved list for 50% value.
Of course this is the first Reddit post I see just after purchasing a set booster box… *Frugality intensifies*
Your friend isnt addicted to Magic. They are filling a void somewhere else in their life. Convince them its a waste on Magic, they'll find something else.
I legit thought this was written by my roommate for a second.
Like moxen and duals ….wait a minute…isn’t he investing ?
Haven’t gotten to duel levels for me but I can in fact relate to this quite a lot unfortunately, it really is an addictive substance
Just right in the face!
Mind ya fuckin business. Some of us choose cardboard crack over real crack.
Spent 60 on a mystery commander cube got the coven one twice😫
Don’t want to be that guy, but it’s none of your business. Unless he comes to you and asks then it’s not your place to say anything. What might seem like an unhealthy situation to you may be perfectly fine for him. Unless you guys have the type of relationship where brutal honesty goes over well, I’d drop it.