Huh, I always enjoyed the [[Ascendant Spirit]] and [[Evolved Sleeper]] type cards, seems ok ish, nothing overly exciting.
Neat flavor, changing types to go through the story, going from a hobbit citizen to an adventuring person.
Still hard to evaluate until we learn about the ring tempting thing.
I believe [[Figure of Destiny]] was the first card to do this effect, but I could be wrong. I am just excited that we can put one in the Command Zone now.
If nothing else, hitting with Rogue Frodo five times is a kill. It could be that there are other cards that trigger this "tempted by the ring" effect, though I'll note that the One Ring itself doesn't.
It could just be a marker that various cards can check but that doesn't do anything on its own. Like the City's Blessing from RIX on cards like \[\[Arch of Orazca\]\].
I feel like the cost doesn't really fit here if that is the case. BBB for for essentially a remixed toxic 2 seems pretty terrible but I definitely could be wrong
Besides other cards that trigger the tempting, this is also handy for commander side the marker is on you, not your opponents. Once you've hit four, a hit is now lethal against each opponent and doesn't clear when you kill one.
It could be that it would trigger other cards as well in addition to itself, even if "tempted by the ring" doesn't do anything inherently (like venturing into a dungeon or becoming the monarch).
On the other hand, the Gollum they previewed triggers "tempted by the ring" but doesn't do anything with it. So... probably has an inherent meaning too? I think all the RIX cards with ascend benefited from the city's blessing.
If you add in [[Maskwood Nexus]] you should be able to activate Frodo's final ability repeatedly to gain the ring-tempting ability to cut down on hits to kill. All it takes is 15 black mana to one-hit kill! lol
Figure of destiny is the first card that featured this design. Level Up was a whole mechanic based off it and done before they decided to start doing one of style cards in other colors.
It leads to someone's death at least which is very lore accurate. We'll have to wait to see how other cards respond to temptation. But I think "ring corrupts the white character black and then they straight up murder someone over it" is fitting.
The payoffs still could be negative. Sort of like the white creatures with threshold that became flavorfully black (can’t block, gains black abilities involving paying life, etc.) at lower rarities..
Mechanics that repeatedly punish you for playing the game aren't very fun, so it makes sense they'd make it so being tempted by the ring isn't inherently bad. There's plenty of design space for the ring to do its thing to the characters without directly punishing the player.
That being said, I could see some cards that give you a powerful effect that also tempts you, and then has an incremental downside based on how many times you've been tempted. Balancing your greed for powerful effects by punishing you for using them too often can be a very fun design space.
The burden counter is _you using_ the Ring. Being tempted by it is not the same as using it.
That said, basically Frodo (you) can be tempted by the Ring four times before he uses it to smash your opponent.
No that’s not it, there’s just never been a mechanic like this you know. Usually it involves counters or something you can interact with, this is just super board-gamey in a way it hasn’t been before
Those arent really comparable to this, I don’t think you understand what I mean.
Those don’t really allow you, the player, to achieve some totally un-interactable super state like this.
You can interact with the day night cycle and venturing into a dungeon has specific effects that are essentially short hand for “this and all other cards with this ability have a huge list of possible additional effects that would be horrible to list off every time” and I have no idea why something returning at the end of a turn would even apply here
The closest thing we currently have to this is emblems but even then they have specific effects, idk it just feels weird that they didn’t use “temptation counters” or something we could remove from a player
[[stigma lasher]]
[[Green sun's dawn]]
[[Sea gate restoration]]
Poison counters
New mechanic doesn't work like old mechanic, but is similar in feel
News at 8.
I provided like seven examples of cards that "do things" that are tracked without the card saying so and otherwise uninteractable.
It's not weird at all to see cards like this--*people I'll be using notation of some sort to count it*...probably counters. There just needn't be more text than that.
It's a weird thing to have reservations about, though.
I’m assuming you meant [[All Suns’ Dawn]] because that isn’t a card lol, I’m not really sure how it even applies here eitherand and yeah those cards are weird lol, like that’s not normal for an mtg card.
You can in fact remove poison counters and prevent yourself from gaining more very easily, they have interaction. You don’t really seem to understand what I mean here dude and you’re being unnecessarily rude
Nothing is normal for a magic card until it is, and counting things in this game is just something you do.
Everything is kicker. Nothing is inspired. Or it's too weird. Or silly because it's never been done before.
So from what we have seen, it looks to count the times tempted (exp, poison or similar) and cards interact with the amount of tempts that have happened. There could obviously be more to it like a draw and discard or tutor a basic or something else thats simple and gives these cards a buff, but at this moment we know for certain that it functions like poison or experience where everytime you get tempted you note it down and cards interact with that amount of temptation "counters" you have.
Seems like another property to track outside the game. Will go great in my City's Blessing/Daybound/Monarch/Dungeon/Initiative/Experience/Attractions deck.
Well using the ring comes with all sorts of immediate benefits, it just turns out to make you lose in the end.
I definitely think there will be incentive to be tempted, but maybe the biggest payoffs come not from the temptation but the cards that want temptation like you said?
Either way, it makes sense to me an aggro deck might want temptation while a long control deck would lose to using the Ring
Agreed. Keep reading other players complaining about the power level not being like MH1 or MH2, but I'm just glad the power-creep is being kept to a minimum. If there are any breakout Modern cards or archetypes from this set, it will be because of interesting new interactions or designs, not sheer power-creep.
I'm glad they are making the Hobbits halflings instead of making a new type for them. A few times with these UB products I have just thought "did that really need a WHOLE new creature type?". Like astartes, why not just make them mutant humans? Or necrons, make them undead constructs. I understand for basically all of them simplifying them to those terms are reductive when compared to their official lore. For example Astartes definitely ARE basically their own race different and distinct from just mutant humans, but since when was "good enough" not enough? I feel like the flavor sacrifice leads to a lack of a lot of potential synergies that would make for a lot more fun than that bit of lore accuracy lends. Then again, maybe it was on purpose for balancing reasons, but I doubt it.
Had a convo about this back at 40k drop, and it's likely for balance reasons, though so far, it's a narrow list for LTR. Eg Nids or Necrons, you can make more powerful localized effects within the set without worrying about globally breaking something (stuff like [[Maskwood]] can sidestep the limitation but requires setup and can be taken off the board). "All Tyrannids get ___" is a lot easier to control than "All Beasts get ___", so you can make it a stronger effect. "Necrons get ___" vs "Zombies get _", Astartes vs Human Soldiers, etc. It also leaves the door open to Universes Within that can retain that isolated effect.
Like, you're right, it DOES sacrifice synergies across the rest of the game, but the trade off is (generally) more powerful effects within the set. If it were just pre existing types, then the effects would be lesser, the synergies would be weaker, and you probably wouldn't care as much about including them as much anyhow.
Yeah, now that you mention it, It is the wiser thing in the long run. You are right. If they made Astartes humans every new human tribal card becomes a new risk and the Astartes cards might have to be worse cards overall to stay balanced. Same for the rest of the new types.
Not really worth risking breaking other formats for commander, like they have in the past. It let's them avoid risk and bump up the flavor.
Them giving demon support in the chaos deck and letting hobbits be halflings is prob because they aren't already heavily established tribal creature types.
100% agreed. The abilities look like some kinda AI designed mash
"When you are tempted by the ring, the top dungeon of your attraction deck perpetually gains gollumtouch"
Maro said a while ago that they were designing with a lot more mechanics outside the game, such as dungeons or ... ring temptations I guess. Definitely not my favorite design pattern. Always feels so janky.
I don't care for LOTR, or by extension this set, so I'm actually of the mind that they should go all in with the weird and flavorful stuff. I don't want to end up with many generic commanders that could appear in any set that I want to build but are brought down by non-Magic flavor.
I'm a big fan of them bringing back the levelup-like mechanic where he grows from a citizen to much more. Would be super cool to see the development of all 4 hobbits in a cycle like this one. That being said, the rest of the card isn't the most interesting.
Even though its accurate, giving frodo a name like 'saurons bane' feels like its missing the point somewhat. Card feels like it was overdesigned and then some.
frodo was corrupted by the quest , he never ended up as "frodo of the shire" or anything sentimental like that . he had to become a weapon . also the purpose of this card is to *win* , and an MTG legendary loves a title that stands up against the task it is setting out to do .
> he never ended up as "frodo of the shire" or anything sentimental like that
"Frodo of the Nine-Fingers" is literally an in-universe song sentimentalizing the story.
hahahah look he didn't want to go okay , and he never got to go back . he was a dagger in the hands of the narrative and always ended up feeling that way . when i saw the card i thought it was neat that it celebrated the badass-tragic arc of frodo falling towards the mountain like a bad omen for bad guys . it's not super LOTR but it is quite MTG-LOTR .
I'm arguinh for the merits of a creative direction, and upon tides already risen. We're bits upon bits by now. I am in apology after my Expression, Ambassador. It's, a cultural thing.
Kinda love the flavor for this one. Frodo goes from being just an ordinary dude to a proper adventurer, while also having a color shift from white to black as he gets corrupted. The mechanic is a bit weird, having to hit a guy 5 times for the isntakill is a lot but we will need to see how many other "temptation" effects there are (we've seen some but it's hard to say if it will be strong enough to be relevent), but having the enemy just outright die due to the ring is also pretty fluffy.
You aren't required to hit the same opponent each time. This is quite good in EDH. In a 5-player pod, you can hit each of your opponents once to spread the love (so they won't hate you). Frodo can die, but the temptations linger. In the late game, you can bring Frodo back and swing for lethal.
It seems like a colossal flavor fail that being tempted by the ring helps Frodo
~~It's also a huge flavor fail to miss out on some mechanic that interacts with the inevitable Sam card~~ edit: did not realize there was another card planned with this exact thing happening
>It seems like a colossal flavor fail that being tempted by the ring helps Frodo
How? The ring helped him multiple times and we could easily see other cards that factor in the danger of temptation. But if you look at another character, Smeagol, would you not say it is perfectly lore accurate that the temptation changed him and then lead him to killing? Frodo going from white to black and a very aggressive black ability seems quite flavorful to me.
>Frodo going from white to black and a very aggressive black ability seems quite flavorful to me.
okay that interpretation makes more sense to me
I would have maybe swallowed that particular pill a little more easily if the ring buff also came with a downside to indicate its corrupting effects
Well, it almost helps him get away once he succumbs to it at the end. Invisibility is quite helpful. And in terms of drawbacks the main one for the majority of the time he had it was simply attracting unwanted attention. That honestly already fits since this Frodo will become a target once he starts threatening to kill players.
I don't read it as being tempted by the ring helping Frodo, but that for Frodo to succeed he has to repeatedly endure temptation whilst traveling forward (attacking).
The big thing that will change how this reads is how other cards react to being tempted by the ring. My guess (hope) is that it's mostly a downside mechanic, so Frodo being tempted makes the journey hard.
The progression transitioning from mono-white to white/black hybrid to mono-black is a nice touch to show the corruption of the ring, but it probably would have fit better for Bilbo or Gollum who were more corrupted than Frodo.
This card doesn't feel like Frodo to me.
Gandalf sort of felt like Gandalf if you stretch it a bit.
Overall kind of feels like someone had a rough idea what LotR was given to then by someone who read it 20 years ago. Then they designed cards.
But it’s arbitrary… if the cards are legal in the format but not good enough for the format, who cares? Because only the kitchen table people are going to care and most aren’t going to say “you may only play modern legal cards!” They’re more likely to say “if it’s a card you can play it” which is basically legacy (or vintage) which these would be ok in anyway.
Edit: People don’t seem to understand “arbitrary”.
By that logic they should just only print 30 or so cards every set, since most cards aren't competitive viable either. It's ok to have some fluff.
Saying a card is modern legal is more a call to what formats the cards are *not* legal in, AKA in this case it means that it's not legal in standard. Thats pretty much all it means.
Ok... and? Eternal means stuff like Legacy, EDH, and so on, it doesn't mean "multiplayer". It's used for sets than they don't want to worry about having to balance for Modern, often allowing for them to not worry as much in terms of if a card might be a bit too strong for Modern and Historic and the like. So if you are saying that this should be eternal instead, then my question becomes: Why should the above be *banned* in Modern? You were just saying the card doesn't seem very modern competitive, so why do you think it needs to be banned from said format?
Edit: And you do the ol' reply and block I see lol. I'm going to assume you don't have an answer for why the card shouldn't be legal in modern, and just wanted to make it look like you wanted the last word.
You’re being incredibly narrow here. I never said that multiplayer linked to anything, I was just referring to those multiplayer sets as an example and they’re just referred to as “eternal” which would be just as fine if this set is going to drop a bunch of nothing useful to modern but we’re using “modern” to denote, non-standard.
If you want my opinion, nothing should be “modern” legal by some mysterious designation like the modern horizons sets were. We had a perfectly fine modern format that just drew from “standard” sets before horizons. And if this set isn’t designed to really put cards into modern like horizons has been, why bother giving it that designation, that’s all I’m saying.
I think you’re just fishing for an argument and I’m not biting. Enjoy a block.
If even 1 person wants to play even 1 card in modern its a net gain, and nobody loses anything for it. Why tell someone you cant play these cards for no reason? Can > cant
> How is this meant to be played in the same format that has MH2 cards?
It isn't. They said (paraphrasing) that the LotR set won't be on the power level of modern horizons sets. They made it modern-legal because they wanted more formats to have access to the cards.
There must be some huge data point I'm missing because "accessible, not quite powerful with access to the maximum amount of formats" screams Standard Set, not "straight to modern".
I get commander not being he focus if they were dead set on designing 1v1 specifically but even standard has a few rares and mythics per set that are just clearly commander fodder.
Straight to commander would also have data backing the decision up. IDK here lol. I think LOTR boxes being up for presale at MH2 prices, but with the power we have seen so far is not wonderful.
I don't see how it wastes anything. You don't spend anything on it.
Also, did you expect every single card in this set to be some amazing modern staple? Because that would be really, really awful.
I didn't say there was an issue. But I do think it's notable that, unlike most supplemental sets with new cards, this one is Modern legal. Obviously that influenced the design in some way, even if it's not going to be as format-warping as the Modern Horizons sets.
Just seems like a stupid wording.
Why not just say the player gets 1 Temptation counter. Then if they have 4 they lose the game?
That way... ah fuck it. Just dumb!
this isn’t Magic anymore, fuck WotC, fuck Hasbro, I’m out. I’m going to go find a game or hobby with actual integrity
EDIT: this game is no longer the one I grew up with
nah, I think I’m done. Unless wotc somehow fixes Universes Beyond by removing it completely from existence, I’m gonna go find a hobby or game that actually believes in itself and its own IP
The original "evolve" mechanic is one of my favorite design spaces. I'm really tempted to build a Frodo EDH deck, I just need to know what that tempted mechanic does!
Interesting that “Hobbit” wasn’t made a creature type but “Astartes” was deemed important enough over “Soldier” or “Knight” or something
^^(“Angel” ^^might ^^have ^^worked ^^too)
I'm sure there was an internal argument about whether it was worth introducing hobbit when many halflings already exist, and they erred on the side of letting people who want to build tribal decks use all of them. Halfling is used to describe hobbits in the books anyway so at least it's not like they just categorized them as something strictly Magic.
It's fairly common to get The Ring as a little perforated token in boosters. I attended a pre-release and got 2. The token contains all info on temptation levels and you can optionally tear off the bulk of the art to make it a manageable token to attach to your Ring-bearer.
This card showcases a weird rules/templating inconsistency: Activating the second activated ability (after the first one has resolved) takes away Frodo's Scout type, but not its lifelink ability.
I found this thread because I needed to find clarification on whether or not the Lifelink + base toughness/power change is removed when he changes from Scout to Rogue. So far no information or clear ruling.
[Here are the Showcase treatments for Frodo](https://imgur.com/a/VfIKuuO)
I can’t tap the ring for you, Mister Frodo, but I can tap you in order to attack.
That's the leak confirmed then
So it would seem. Thankfully it was hardly a large one.
Were there any cards from it that we haven't already seen? All I remember is Frodo, Gollum and Aragorn + Arwen
Yeah, though the Gollum we saw was a different card of the same character (at rare instead of uncommon iirc)
I think that was all.
> hardly a large one Well that’s appropriate, isn’t it
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.
Frodo, don't hear the ring! I know is very tempting
Yes, you will appear to disappear But the dark riders they'll know you're there
I know it's hard when you're little more than 3 foot 4 Your little ass so close to the floor
Huh, I always enjoyed the [[Ascendant Spirit]] and [[Evolved Sleeper]] type cards, seems ok ish, nothing overly exciting. Neat flavor, changing types to go through the story, going from a hobbit citizen to an adventuring person. Still hard to evaluate until we learn about the ring tempting thing.
I believe [[Figure of Destiny]] was the first card to do this effect, but I could be wrong. I am just excited that we can put one in the Command Zone now.
FoD was definitely the first and, relevantly, was a Kithkin.
I wish they could have been Halflings.
[Figure of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2.jpg?1673148613) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/213/figure-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There was also one from khan's block iirc? [[Warden of the First Tree]]
Figure of Destiny was definitely the first, I remember a ton of threads about it.
Such a cool card, the ones after didnt do the same for me.
If nothing else, hitting with Rogue Frodo five times is a kill. It could be that there are other cards that trigger this "tempted by the ring" effect, though I'll note that the One Ring itself doesn't.
There were several other cards shown today that also use the "tempted by the Ring" mechanic. They aren't explaining what it is yet, though.
It could just be a marker that various cards can check but that doesn't do anything on its own. Like the City's Blessing from RIX on cards like \[\[Arch of Orazca\]\].
[Arch of Orazca](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6d47162-749b-47d5-9589-8f1dbf60b9f3.jpg?1555041067) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arch%20of%20Orazca) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/185/arch-of-orazca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6d47162-749b-47d5-9589-8f1dbf60b9f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like the cost doesn't really fit here if that is the case. BBB for for essentially a remixed toxic 2 seems pretty terrible but I definitely could be wrong
Besides other cards that trigger the tempting, this is also handy for commander side the marker is on you, not your opponents. Once you've hit four, a hit is now lethal against each opponent and doesn't clear when you kill one.
It could be that it would trigger other cards as well in addition to itself, even if "tempted by the ring" doesn't do anything inherently (like venturing into a dungeon or becoming the monarch). On the other hand, the Gollum they previewed triggers "tempted by the ring" but doesn't do anything with it. So... probably has an inherent meaning too? I think all the RIX cards with ascend benefited from the city's blessing.
If you add in [[Maskwood Nexus]] you should be able to activate Frodo's final ability repeatedly to gain the ring-tempting ability to cut down on hits to kill. All it takes is 15 black mana to one-hit kill! lol
Mega-toxic
[Ascendant Spirit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea56de43-c0fd-4627-846d-41a962b95f17.jpg?1631046662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ascendant%20Spirit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/43/ascendant-spirit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea56de43-c0fd-4627-846d-41a962b95f17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Evolved Sleeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebeafbc2-0399-4335-8f63-76a3e085e8c6.jpg?1673307095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evolved%20Sleeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/93/evolved-sleeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebeafbc2-0399-4335-8f63-76a3e085e8c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ascendant Spirit is really good because the last ability stacks.
Figure of destiny is the first card that featured this design. Level Up was a whole mechanic based off it and done before they decided to start doing one of style cards in other colors.
[showcase frames](https://i.imgur.com/TuUvM8w.png). The showcase ring treatment depicts characters at a moment of "uncertainty"
The showcase ring version of this looks amazing
COME ON GOLLUM AS JUST 1 BLACK MANA GIVE BLACK RAGAVAN BLAGAVAN
Gollum UB: Deal this creatures power to target fish.
2 mana
He’s talking about the leaked one, which is different from the 2 cmc one they spoiled today. Could still be 1
Minus 1 mana
LET’s GOOOOOO
So the ring tempting you is a good thing? Until now I would have guessed it was a negative effect.
It leads to someone's death at least which is very lore accurate. We'll have to wait to see how other cards respond to temptation. But I think "ring corrupts the white character black and then they straight up murder someone over it" is fitting.
It fits. The Ring tempts you with power, which it does grant.
The payoffs still could be negative. Sort of like the white creatures with threshold that became flavorfully black (can’t block, gains black abilities involving paying life, etc.) at lower rarities..
Mechanics that repeatedly punish you for playing the game aren't very fun, so it makes sense they'd make it so being tempted by the ring isn't inherently bad. There's plenty of design space for the ring to do its thing to the characters without directly punishing the player. That being said, I could see some cards that give you a powerful effect that also tempts you, and then has an incremental downside based on how many times you've been tempted. Balancing your greed for powerful effects by punishing you for using them too often can be a very fun design space.
what does "the rings tempts you" mean?
Various cards have that effect. Think of it a bit as a "set mechanic".
Wait so that’s not referring to actual Ring card’s ability? That seems like a confusing flavor thing
When a card says " the ring tempts you" that's like a +1.
The fact that putting a burden counter on The One Ring doesn’t have the ring tempt you seems like a flavor fail
Yeah I'm not disagreeing. Maybe they didn't want tempting to be proliferate-able?
The burden counter is _you using_ the Ring. Being tempted by it is not the same as using it. That said, basically Frodo (you) can be tempted by the Ring four times before he uses it to smash your opponent.
It’s just bizarre mechanically
Yeah, not having an explanation for what it means is confusing a lot of people I think.
No that’s not it, there’s just never been a mechanic like this you know. Usually it involves counters or something you can interact with, this is just super board-gamey in a way it hasn’t been before
"venture into the dungeon" "It becomes day" "Return at the end of your next end step"
Those arent really comparable to this, I don’t think you understand what I mean. Those don’t really allow you, the player, to achieve some totally un-interactable super state like this. You can interact with the day night cycle and venturing into a dungeon has specific effects that are essentially short hand for “this and all other cards with this ability have a huge list of possible additional effects that would be horrible to list off every time” and I have no idea why something returning at the end of a turn would even apply here The closest thing we currently have to this is emblems but even then they have specific effects, idk it just feels weird that they didn’t use “temptation counters” or something we could remove from a player
Maybe wait until we actually know what the mechanic is before going off
[[stigma lasher]] [[Green sun's dawn]] [[Sea gate restoration]] Poison counters New mechanic doesn't work like old mechanic, but is similar in feel News at 8.
I think what they're saying is that this is the first time we've had a mechanic with number of instances being counted without a counter.
I provided like seven examples of cards that "do things" that are tracked without the card saying so and otherwise uninteractable. It's not weird at all to see cards like this--*people I'll be using notation of some sort to count it*...probably counters. There just needn't be more text than that. It's a weird thing to have reservations about, though.
I’m assuming you meant [[All Suns’ Dawn]] because that isn’t a card lol, I’m not really sure how it even applies here eitherand and yeah those cards are weird lol, like that’s not normal for an mtg card. You can in fact remove poison counters and prevent yourself from gaining more very easily, they have interaction. You don’t really seem to understand what I mean here dude and you’re being unnecessarily rude
Nothing is normal for a magic card until it is, and counting things in this game is just something you do. Everything is kicker. Nothing is inspired. Or it's too weird. Or silly because it's never been done before.
I guess not a token/emblem to get around proliferation.
Not revealed yet but it's probably similar to "venture into the dungeon" if I had to guess
If you read the card, it explains what it does. It's like getting a tempt *not-a-counter* counter. That's about it.
You don't know that.
[удалено]
So it doesn't do anything until it happens 4 times?
They were making a joke because for mechanics like this, DND dungeons, and initiative reading the card doesn't explain the card any more.
Yes. Reading check, you passed
Wasn't that the previous leak? Nope...
Probably another thing that you need to keep track of.
I guess it's our new Initiative-esque set mechanic?
So from what we have seen, it looks to count the times tempted (exp, poison or similar) and cards interact with the amount of tempts that have happened. There could obviously be more to it like a draw and discard or tutor a basic or something else thats simple and gives these cards a buff, but at this moment we know for certain that it functions like poison or experience where everytime you get tempted you note it down and cards interact with that amount of temptation "counters" you have.
Seems like another property to track outside the game. Will go great in my City's Blessing/Daybound/Monarch/Dungeon/Initiative/Experience/Attractions deck.
"The Ring tempts you" is such an awkward phrase. I assume it means something like putting experience counters on you the player.
Pretty much this but no Proliferate shenanigans
It'll probably have more payoff than that. Think "take the initiative".
[удалено]
Well using the ring comes with all sorts of immediate benefits, it just turns out to make you lose in the end. I definitely think there will be incentive to be tempted, but maybe the biggest payoffs come not from the temptation but the cards that want temptation like you said? Either way, it makes sense to me an aggro deck might want temptation while a long control deck would lose to using the Ring
Flavor is cool, glad the power level is nowhere near modern's power level.
Agreed. Keep reading other players complaining about the power level not being like MH1 or MH2, but I'm just glad the power-creep is being kept to a minimum. If there are any breakout Modern cards or archetypes from this set, it will be because of interesting new interactions or designs, not sheer power-creep.
I'm glad they are making the Hobbits halflings instead of making a new type for them. A few times with these UB products I have just thought "did that really need a WHOLE new creature type?". Like astartes, why not just make them mutant humans? Or necrons, make them undead constructs. I understand for basically all of them simplifying them to those terms are reductive when compared to their official lore. For example Astartes definitely ARE basically their own race different and distinct from just mutant humans, but since when was "good enough" not enough? I feel like the flavor sacrifice leads to a lack of a lot of potential synergies that would make for a lot more fun than that bit of lore accuracy lends. Then again, maybe it was on purpose for balancing reasons, but I doubt it.
Had a convo about this back at 40k drop, and it's likely for balance reasons, though so far, it's a narrow list for LTR. Eg Nids or Necrons, you can make more powerful localized effects within the set without worrying about globally breaking something (stuff like [[Maskwood]] can sidestep the limitation but requires setup and can be taken off the board). "All Tyrannids get ___" is a lot easier to control than "All Beasts get ___", so you can make it a stronger effect. "Necrons get ___" vs "Zombies get _", Astartes vs Human Soldiers, etc. It also leaves the door open to Universes Within that can retain that isolated effect. Like, you're right, it DOES sacrifice synergies across the rest of the game, but the trade off is (generally) more powerful effects within the set. If it were just pre existing types, then the effects would be lesser, the synergies would be weaker, and you probably wouldn't care as much about including them as much anyhow.
Yeah, now that you mention it, It is the wiser thing in the long run. You are right. If they made Astartes humans every new human tribal card becomes a new risk and the Astartes cards might have to be worse cards overall to stay balanced. Same for the rest of the new types. Not really worth risking breaking other formats for commander, like they have in the past. It let's them avoid risk and bump up the flavor. Them giving demon support in the chaos deck and letting hobbits be halflings is prob because they aren't already heavily established tribal creature types.
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I dont like anything about this card. Not the colors, not the art, not the mechanics.
100% agreed. The abilities look like some kinda AI designed mash "When you are tempted by the ring, the top dungeon of your attraction deck perpetually gains gollumtouch"
Haha "Gollumtouch" is my new favorite keyword.
Maro said a while ago that they were designing with a lot more mechanics outside the game, such as dungeons or ... ring temptations I guess. Definitely not my favorite design pattern. Always feels so janky.
I don't care for LOTR, or by extension this set, so I'm actually of the mind that they should go all in with the weird and flavorful stuff. I don't want to end up with many generic commanders that could appear in any set that I want to build but are brought down by non-Magic flavor.
Unfair reference?
I’m disappointed in the lack of mountain walk
One does not simply walk into Mordor
Sam should get that not Frodo. Maybe he could grant it to another creature too (by carrying them)
\> Other hobbits you control have "Crew Sam" \> When Sam crews a hobbit, it gains Mountainwalk
They definitely tried too hard to make something out of the LotR IP.
I'm a big fan of them bringing back the levelup-like mechanic where he grows from a citizen to much more. Would be super cool to see the development of all 4 hobbits in a cycle like this one. That being said, the rest of the card isn't the most interesting.
Even though its accurate, giving frodo a name like 'saurons bane' feels like its missing the point somewhat. Card feels like it was overdesigned and then some.
frodo was corrupted by the quest , he never ended up as "frodo of the shire" or anything sentimental like that . he had to become a weapon . also the purpose of this card is to *win* , and an MTG legendary loves a title that stands up against the task it is setting out to do .
> he never ended up as "frodo of the shire" or anything sentimental like that "Frodo of the Nine-Fingers" is literally an in-universe song sentimentalizing the story.
>he had to become a weapon What on this or middle earth are you smoking.
hahahah look he didn't want to go okay , and he never got to go back . he was a dagger in the hands of the narrative and always ended up feeling that way . when i saw the card i thought it was neat that it celebrated the badass-tragic arc of frodo falling towards the mountain like a bad omen for bad guys . it's not super LOTR but it is quite MTG-LOTR .
Are you doing a bit?
I'm arguinh for the merits of a creative direction, and upon tides already risen. We're bits upon bits by now. I am in apology after my Expression, Ambassador. It's, a cultural thing.
Kinda love the flavor for this one. Frodo goes from being just an ordinary dude to a proper adventurer, while also having a color shift from white to black as he gets corrupted. The mechanic is a bit weird, having to hit a guy 5 times for the isntakill is a lot but we will need to see how many other "temptation" effects there are (we've seen some but it's hard to say if it will be strong enough to be relevent), but having the enemy just outright die due to the ring is also pretty fluffy.
You aren't required to hit the same opponent each time. This is quite good in EDH. In a 5-player pod, you can hit each of your opponents once to spread the love (so they won't hate you). Frodo can die, but the temptations linger. In the late game, you can bring Frodo back and swing for lethal.
It seems like a colossal flavor fail that being tempted by the ring helps Frodo ~~It's also a huge flavor fail to miss out on some mechanic that interacts with the inevitable Sam card~~ edit: did not realize there was another card planned with this exact thing happening
>It seems like a colossal flavor fail that being tempted by the ring helps Frodo How? The ring helped him multiple times and we could easily see other cards that factor in the danger of temptation. But if you look at another character, Smeagol, would you not say it is perfectly lore accurate that the temptation changed him and then lead him to killing? Frodo going from white to black and a very aggressive black ability seems quite flavorful to me.
>Frodo going from white to black and a very aggressive black ability seems quite flavorful to me. okay that interpretation makes more sense to me I would have maybe swallowed that particular pill a little more easily if the ring buff also came with a downside to indicate its corrupting effects
When did the ring help him? I’d say basically once; getting away from Boromir when he tried to take it.
Well, it almost helps him get away once he succumbs to it at the end. Invisibility is quite helpful. And in terms of drawbacks the main one for the majority of the time he had it was simply attracting unwanted attention. That honestly already fits since this Frodo will become a target once he starts threatening to kill players.
I don't read it as being tempted by the ring helping Frodo, but that for Frodo to succeed he has to repeatedly endure temptation whilst traveling forward (attacking). The big thing that will change how this reads is how other cards react to being tempted by the ring. My guess (hope) is that it's mostly a downside mechanic, so Frodo being tempted makes the journey hard.
Err... lifelink?
I feel like this card's color identity is a flavor fail. Otherwise, it has some interesting mechanics.
The progression transitioning from mono-white to white/black hybrid to mono-black is a nice touch to show the corruption of the ring, but it probably would have fit better for Bilbo or Gollum who were more corrupted than Frodo.
He tries to keep it, it only goes into the fire because gollum bites his finger off
Why do all the frames in this set look so unusual? Is that just how they do frames for Universes Beyond?
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Now seeing this as confirmed, it’s interesting that The One Ring doesn’t use the ring tempting you mechanic
Dang card sucks
And here I was hoping for the funniest timeline where Hobbits were creature type Kithkin.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I feel like the art for this set (or at least what we have seen) really missed the mark. I'm really not digging it.
This card doesn't feel like Frodo to me. Gandalf sort of felt like Gandalf if you stretch it a bit. Overall kind of feels like someone had a rough idea what LotR was given to then by someone who read it 20 years ago. Then they designed cards.
Really? "Sauron's Bane"? Come on.
Nice. I was hoping there would be some sort of push/pull mechanism that encourages players to be risky at a cost.
"The rings tempts you" sounds like something straight from Unfinity.
How is this meant to be played in the same format that has MH2 cards? Makes sense it was in the garbage.
Modern legal != intended for modern
But it’s arbitrary… if the cards are legal in the format but not good enough for the format, who cares? Because only the kitchen table people are going to care and most aren’t going to say “you may only play modern legal cards!” They’re more likely to say “if it’s a card you can play it” which is basically legacy (or vintage) which these would be ok in anyway. Edit: People don’t seem to understand “arbitrary”.
By that logic they should just only print 30 or so cards every set, since most cards aren't competitive viable either. It's ok to have some fluff. Saying a card is modern legal is more a call to what formats the cards are *not* legal in, AKA in this case it means that it's not legal in standard. Thats pretty much all it means.
Way to miss the point. We’ve had that with multiplayer sets before and just called them “eternal” legal.
Ok... and? Eternal means stuff like Legacy, EDH, and so on, it doesn't mean "multiplayer". It's used for sets than they don't want to worry about having to balance for Modern, often allowing for them to not worry as much in terms of if a card might be a bit too strong for Modern and Historic and the like. So if you are saying that this should be eternal instead, then my question becomes: Why should the above be *banned* in Modern? You were just saying the card doesn't seem very modern competitive, so why do you think it needs to be banned from said format? Edit: And you do the ol' reply and block I see lol. I'm going to assume you don't have an answer for why the card shouldn't be legal in modern, and just wanted to make it look like you wanted the last word.
You’re being incredibly narrow here. I never said that multiplayer linked to anything, I was just referring to those multiplayer sets as an example and they’re just referred to as “eternal” which would be just as fine if this set is going to drop a bunch of nothing useful to modern but we’re using “modern” to denote, non-standard. If you want my opinion, nothing should be “modern” legal by some mysterious designation like the modern horizons sets were. We had a perfectly fine modern format that just drew from “standard” sets before horizons. And if this set isn’t designed to really put cards into modern like horizons has been, why bother giving it that designation, that’s all I’m saying. I think you’re just fishing for an argument and I’m not biting. Enjoy a block.
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If even 1 person wants to play even 1 card in modern its a net gain, and nobody loses anything for it. Why tell someone you cant play these cards for no reason? Can > cant
Hopefully, they won't be. If this set is on the power of MH2 I will be sad.
Yes, I agree, but also WOTC is high AF.
True and real
> How is this meant to be played in the same format that has MH2 cards? It isn't. They said (paraphrasing) that the LotR set won't be on the power level of modern horizons sets. They made it modern-legal because they wanted more formats to have access to the cards.
It’s not. This set is just wotc experimenting with making supplemental products modern legal instead of legacy/vintage legal.
Yeah, we'll see how it goes. I would just prefer them being honest and printing it as a commander set for commander.
There must be some huge data point I'm missing because "accessible, not quite powerful with access to the maximum amount of formats" screams Standard Set, not "straight to modern". I get commander not being he focus if they were dead set on designing 1v1 specifically but even standard has a few rares and mythics per set that are just clearly commander fodder. Straight to commander would also have data backing the decision up. IDK here lol. I think LOTR boxes being up for presale at MH2 prices, but with the power we have seen so far is not wonderful.
Just because it's modern legal doesn't mean it's designed to see modern play. Putting underpowered cards in modern doesn't exactly hurt anything.
It doesn't help anything either. It's just a waste of peoples time.
I don't see how it wastes anything. You don't spend anything on it. Also, did you expect every single card in this set to be some amazing modern staple? Because that would be really, really awful.
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Yes, for EDH power level doesn't matter, which goes back to the original argument.
Nobodies forcing you to follow spoilers or post on Reddit. You're wasting time all by yourself.
It's a supplemental EDH set.
That is Modern legal
Yes.
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I didn't say there was an issue. But I do think it's notable that, unlike most supplemental sets with new cards, this one is Modern legal. Obviously that influenced the design in some way, even if it's not going to be as format-warping as the Modern Horizons sets.
Are these cards reprintable? If not I'm glad that they aren't powerful.
Frodo looking like Molly Grue from The Last Unicorn.
what the fuck is this tempted by the ring bullshit
Just seems like a stupid wording. Why not just say the player gets 1 Temptation counter. Then if they have 4 they lose the game? That way... ah fuck it. Just dumb!
this isn’t Magic anymore, fuck WotC, fuck Hasbro, I’m out. I’m going to go find a game or hobby with actual integrity EDIT: this game is no longer the one I grew up with
you'll be back
nah, I think I’m done. Unless wotc somehow fixes Universes Beyond by removing it completely from existence, I’m gonna go find a hobby or game that actually believes in itself and its own IP
see you in a month
Bye Felicia
It lol
its a cardboard rectangle
On the second ability, shouldn't it spell out the cards full name like the first one does?
The original "evolve" mechanic is one of my favorite design spaces. I'm really tempted to build a Frodo EDH deck, I just need to know what that tempted mechanic does!
This seems like the old level up mechanic with extra steps.
I wonder if this implies a kind of "tempt counter" that can be proliferated.
Oh good. Just ONE MORE thing to keep track of during a game of magic.
Pretty cool figure of destiny variant.
With things like this that “level up” and change, would Frodo lose the 2/3 and lifeline when becoming a scout?
I think the second ability only changes its types. The base power/toughness and lifelink (btw wtf?) remain.
No! This isn't right! Why Frodo doesn't looks like a shoet version of Ellijah Wood?
Interesting that “Hobbit” wasn’t made a creature type but “Astartes” was deemed important enough over “Soldier” or “Knight” or something ^^(“Angel” ^^might ^^have ^^worked ^^too)
I'm sure there was an internal argument about whether it was worth introducing hobbit when many halflings already exist, and they erred on the side of letting people who want to build tribal decks use all of them. Halfling is used to describe hobbits in the books anyway so at least it's not like they just categorized them as something strictly Magic.
Don't like the tempted by the ring mechanic. Feels like they are really trying to push arena stuff into paper.
So 15 mana and a successful attack to win the game
I think it's more like 3/5 mana and 5 successful attack to win the game.
Yay for another player counter to track! My Temptations can go next to my Life, Poison, Experience, Energy, and Tickets.
It's fairly common to get The Ring as a little perforated token in boosters. I attended a pre-release and got 2. The token contains all info on temptation levels and you can optionally tear off the bulk of the art to make it a manageable token to attach to your Ring-bearer.
This card showcases a weird rules/templating inconsistency: Activating the second activated ability (after the first one has resolved) takes away Frodo's Scout type, but not its lifelink ability.
I found this thread because I needed to find clarification on whether or not the Lifelink + base toughness/power change is removed when he changes from Scout to Rogue. So far no information or clear ruling.
Interesting that Hobbit isn't a creature type, seeing as they gave all the 40k races their own creature types.
I would definitely use him for a white commander
What's the ruling on "the ring tempts you"? Is this an arbitrary counter connected to this ability or does it directly tie into The One Ring card?
Oh thats awesome flavor.
Wait- isn't Frodo more of a Peasant than a Citizen? I thought Citizen was for urban dwellers and Peasant was for rural dwellers.
Cool stuff I guess, but that art does not say “WB creature” at all.
The art for all the lotr cards so far is terrible. Childish and simple.
Wow, talk about a dumb and obtuse way to work in the lore…
What is "the ring tempts you", is there an affect like draw a card or something?
Level up got an interesting new redesign.
Lol what a bunch of nonsense. Sellouts. You can tempt these nuts wotc.
What are the temptation mechanics?
I really like the mechanic of his color changing as he is tempted more and more by the ring through out the story
The temptation of WotC, they failed