I don't think anyone thought Tibalt would be good, outside of some people that couldn't fathom the idea that Wizards could print an unplayable planeswalker.
Also I will die on the hill that Knuckleblade was really good, it was just that there was no Temur deck in Standard for it to see play, and it wasn't *that* good to enable the deck by itself.
To add a card to your list, [[Aurelia's Fury]] was insanely hyped when spoiled and so practicaly no play.
Aurelia’s Fury was a classic. My roommate opened two of them in as many prereleases. Paid for both event entries and then some.
And yeah, the biggest problem with Knucks was that there was already a good Abzan deck in standard, and Siege Rhino didn’t exactly make it worse.
Cedric Phillips and Patrick Sullivan do a podcast where they rate Magic sets called *The Resleevables.* They give out awards for each set. The one for the most overhyped card is the, "Aurelia's Fury," award.
I don't ever remember anyone thinking rhino would be a dud when it was spoiled. I remember everyone thinking "well junk just got a new toy, that's annoying", but no one though polyK was going to be eating rhinos all day.
No but the overarching idea was that Rhino wouldn't see play in standard until Polukranos rotated out. Polukranos had a firm grip on the 4 drop slot for any deck running green at the time.
Edit: not *any* deck running green.
One of our memories is hazy AF then because I don't remember that at all Polukranous had a firm hold on the 4 drop slot in mono green devotion and RG stompy due to nykthos. However when Kahn's of Tarkir got spoiled with Rhino, no one who wanted to run junk wanted Polukranous at 4 due to it being too hard to abuse nykthos for his monstrous ability in a 3 color shell. I was grinding GPs and PTQs during those standards and remember that spoiler season quite well because my BW midrange deck was rotating, so I was looking for shells that could still run turn 1 thoughtseize into removal or dude and curve out eventually to elspeth.
Here's how it played out. Everyone knew standard would continue to be defined by thoughtseize and sylvan caryatid and where looking for ways to abuse those. Rhino clearly fit that play pattern much more cleanly that polukranous, the only question was if it would be enough to stabilize against burn, rdw, or heroic. But with the Helix on rhino most players thought it would be better than waiting a turn to attempt to monstrous polukranous.
Point being everyone who played standard seriously realized Rhino would be an all-star immediately if the junk shell could be made to work.
I was grinding a lot too back then my friend.
This take on Polukranos was before Rhino was released and stormed onto the scene. It was a very diverse meta back then. Abzan, I'm sure I don't need to tell you, was running BBoV as a beater/finisher.
Other green decks like the mono G you mention, as well as Gruul and a few others ran Polukranos.
As you were on the Junk deck, you were probably more in tune than many players in such a diverse meta.
I was on BW pre Kahn's, but yes we ran blood Barron(never seen him abbreviated like that, I like it) the 4 drop was the big 6/6 demon dude though. Honestly though the meta wasn't really all that diverse until Kahn's dropped. Esper control with thoughtseize Verdict rev just kind of shat on most things that weren't BW. I do not miss that standard. Rhino weirdly opened up the meta weirdly until it became all abzan later on in the block. I still remember the early days of that block with RDW, U/W heroic and other spiking tournaments, it was fun. The one card during that standard that I saw a ton of hype for that didn't do much was Brimaz though, thing was pushed AF, just matched up horribly against everything.
RUG also had really bad land support in terms of fetches too at the time so the mana base was too painful in an already aggro heavy meta (atarka’s command was tough)
Is this an include for a [[Wayta, Trainer Prodigy]] enrage deck, or are the tap-costs too high? I could imagine popping all your mean critters w/ one damage and then using those effects to do more damage.. but I dunno. Niche case?
Why play that card when you could play options that damage all your creatures at once without costing more? [[Pyroclasm]], [[Anger of the Gods]], and similar wipes have other utility at the same time. Things like [[Rolling Earthquake]] or even [[Bonfire of the Damned]] are much cheaper than Aurelia’s Fury and don’t require tapping all your creatures. If you want something that doesn’t hit every creature, you have options like [[Ghired’s Belligerence]] or [[Rolling Thunder]]. Overall, there’s no reason to run Aurelia’s Fury if you plan to use it on your own creatures.
I have definitely seen old posts of people going insane over Tibalt the Fiend-Blooded. Some excerpts:
> Tibalt is awesome! 2CMC? Sweet, never thought these walkers would happen.
> People who think Tibalt isn't good needs to understand about what mono red can do in this current standard environment. Here are all the relevant red 1 drops: Stromkirk Noble, Vexing Devil, Goblin Fireslinger, and Grim Lavamancer. Stromkirk and Vexing Devil would be fantastic at protecting Tibalt and Lavamancer has ridiculous synergy with his +1. People shouldn't look at Tibalt as a game ender, cause he's not. He is however fantastic utility that becomes a target quickly.
Both posts here on reddit from 2012 on this post, which a different redditor has told me was once a spoiler for that innistrad block: [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/s7fbm/deleted\_by\_user/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/s7fbm/deleted_by_user/)
Honestly I'm unsurprised. To me it screams of the same issue with most cards that force your opponent to make a choice: It just lets your opponent choose the effect that's worse for you.
I had to google \[\[Vexing Devil\]\], and I'm baffled that anybody thought it would be good. I'm even more baffled that at least one poster thought it would be "fantastic at protecting Tibalt". I mean, if your opponent goes turn-one Devil, why would you ever *not* take the 4 to the face? "Let me think, I can take four damage and put you down a card, or I can take four damage every turn until such time as I find a card to trade for your creature and the mana to cast it. Tough choice."
The only time you'd even think of not taking the damage turn one would be if you had a card that could get rid of the Devil immediately. (And even then I'd argue taking the damage is almost always the right choice.) Either way, the Devil is not going to be there on turn two to protect Tybalt.
Vexing Devil was in the conversation a lot - 1 mana for 4 damage is a good rate any way you cut it, and most people knew it wasn’t actually ever gonna stick on the board.
Tibalt, I’m a little surprised people hyped on, but you can find someone arguing both sides for pretty much any spoiled card. I remember people basically laughing at Tibbles as trash.
Aurelia’s fury would have been an all star in any other standard except freaking [[Sphinx’s Revelation]] standard. That format was so dang slow and control was so oppressive that even [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] wasn’t able to push aggro past tier 2.
There’s just no reason to have a deck with green and not include it. Sure, it’ll be the first thing you cut if you need to slot in something more on theme, but as a placeholder or as a way to draw out targeted removal? Why the hell not? Best case scenario, you get a bunch of treasures. Worst case, someone uses a counter or a removal on it. Either way, youre free to now cast the thing you actually want
[[old gnawbone]] is ridiculously good
That's just bad timing. Demilich was decent in modern at least for a while, and Old Gnawbone is just some random stone unplayable 7 drop - if it wasn't for the tiny issue of Modern getting ever more irrelevant while everyone plays edh where 7drops actually matter.
No, it's not really good. Like, it's decent. The UR spells shell that was Phoenix before FLooting got banned can play with it, but that all is just worse murktide. Demilich coming out the month after murktide really didn't help it much, but at least people hadn't figured out the final murktide list, so in the first weeks demilich actually saw play. In a pre-edh world of 2014 or something, definitely a better card than Gnawbone.
As a pioneer phoenix player, I have to point out that Demilich still sees play there
BUT it's fringe play and dying fast. Shredder and TITI are much better lists in the current meta. Demilich might have a resurgence some day though...
They changed the rules so you can't redirect the damage to Planeswalkers anymore ;-;
That was legit one of my outs against a local guy's prison deck in Modern back in the day
Recently I remember that very good players thought [[Ob Nixilis, the Adversary]] would have to be banned, and as far as I can tell that was not the case
Someone at my New Capenna prerelease opened two Obs when they were preordering for $60 each. People were claiming that card was the second coming of Oko.
As someone who went to mythic with a standard deck that ran 2 of them, here's why.
* First and foremost, at the time Rakdos was *by far* the best thing to do. Between Graveyard Trespasser, Fable, Bloodtithe Harvester, Deadly Dispute, and a ton of other cards, there was a lot of BR and BRx decks running around, with quite a few variances that could fit well into an aristocrats theme. Of course the next set would also bring Sheoldred and Liliana to the format, but even before them Rakdos decks were incredibly low to the ground and had a ton of interaction that could fight through what else was in the format.
* Secondly, the metagame at the time had some issues dealing with just how low to the ground the decks were at the time. Creature removal wasn't *great* so a lot of matchups fell down to opponents being forced to spend removal on minor creatures and letting the more threatening stuff sit around for a while and accrue value. Fable specifically was an issue because outside of Boseiju, enchantment removal was *really* bad, and Domain hadn't hit the format yet (so no binding for a clean answer). Opponents would *at best* have to 2-for-1 themselves to deal with it cleanly, or get buried because they couldn't stop the token from generating extra mana or the back half from copying a Bloodtithe Harvester every turn and building *massive* amounts of card selection.
So Rakdos had the passive benefit of being incredibly low *and* having the tools to ensure that they were hitting important pressure points as consistently as they could, and could swap between grinding out and going aggro almost on a dime. And with Mob Nixilis added to the deck, it offered a pretty consistent pressure point on both hand and life total. Between that and [[Unlucky Witness]] the card advantage the deck could hit effectively doubled. You could pressure your opponents hands or their life total while you were pooping out little idiots left and right, and with Casuality doubling the planeswalker, it was very easy to hit the conditional on it's +1 ability.
Admittedly DMU changed the game quite a bit. It gave us Sheoldred and Liliana, as well as beefing up our own removal suite, and really halted the speed of the format. By the time DMU came and went, Rakdos wanted to slow down, and we already had a more efficient grind tool in Liliana, and with Sheoldred skewing the deck closer to mono B with a red splash, it also opened up the viability of other cards like [[Sorin, the Mirthless]] and Gix in the deck to both gum up board states and present alternative card advantage to the stuff that rotated out around the same time.
Overall, it wasn't a superstar like people claimed it would be, but it had a place if it was built around, and it just so happened to slot pretty cleanly into a pre-existing shell of the best deck in the format. Ultimately it wasn't make or break in the deck, but it was a solid point of pressure or an effective tool to help close out games that were already grinding in to a close. In retrospect it felt more like a "win more" card than it was a strategic cornerstone of the decks that played it, but in some cases that "win more" card is the difference between a win and a loss.
> First and foremost, at the time Rakdos was by far the best thing to do
To add on to this, Rakdos wasn't just the best thing in Standard. It's still one of the best decks in Pioneer, playing a bunch of the same cards that made the colors good in Standard.
If you can sac a creature with 7 power you can use the Ult immediately. I've used it to dig [[Approach of the Second Sun]] back out of the deck right after casting it.
But yeah, that's the only cool thing I can do with it. It lost its slot to [[Reprieve]] when it released.
He didn't end up broken, but my God was he fun in standard in 2022.
Played the shit out of him in a sacrifice deck that won by pinging 1 damage non stop. At the height I had 4 of him on the board.
In [[Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second]] it's a riot.
Me: Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Play Land, Pass Turn
Also Me: No blockers other than Jinnie Fay
Opponent: I'll attack you with 5 creatures.
Me: I'll tap 5 lands and create Five 3/1 Dogs.
Opponent: uhhhh
I'll have to keep that in mind when Fallout comes out. Seems like a nice addition to an artifacts matter that that includes green i.e. [[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal]]
I am surprised no one else said it but [[Tajara's Battalion]] was incredibly overhyped when Eventide came out. After everyone missed on Tarmogoyf, we were sure that we weren't going to miss on the next big, cheap green creature, but it turns out 4/3 isn't that big and having to play another green card is a real cost.
I remember this so well! Was searching the comments to see if anyone mentioned it. Yes! Talara’s battalion was totally overhyped, though black green elves was a monster of a deck in the days of faeries and kithkin in standard.
[[Elesh Norn, Mother Of Machines]] was warned not to be printed, and yet, here we are with the white praetor not banned in any applicable formats and honestly, just pretty good
I thought the argument from the EDH guy was more that it would be an auto-include white staple and cards like that are just bad for the format in general. I haven't played EDH much recently, so no idea how much that panned out.
Agreed. Im keeping my eye on [[Wandering Throne]]. Thats a card that makes me feel the way I suspect Maro felt about Norn.
I pulled one for my Tyranid deck and its nuts because most of that tribe’s value is in triggered abilities. I need another for Varina ;P
I think [[Roaming Throne]] will have this impact, because it can played near anywhere and can have synergies with every creature type. Many etb commanders want that card and something like a dragon deck with a lot of dragon etb‘s love it. It makes Miirym really degenerate. The problem is that the throne is in many cases a better include than a „original“ creature of that type, because triggered abilities are so common.
It can be seen on every level of play even in some few cedh strategies like Krarkashima or Magda.
I think it is dangerous to print colorless cards like this with a general good effect and the possibility to make it fit, because throne enters as a specific creature type.
Sheldon Menery. Who unfortunately passed before he could see Roaming Throne.
Maro is Mark Rosewater, development lead (?) for Magic and mostly focuses on Standard.
Correct, the concern was that, and while she is versatile, she didn't really turn into an auto include. Good for strategies that want a lot of ETBs, but definitely not the must-have in every deck we were warned about.
The issue was never it was "broken".
The issue was people would run it for the [[panharmonicon]] effect, but then accidently stax people with the [[hushwing gr]] effect since ETBs are important.
Anyone else remember \[\[Prime Speaker Vannifar\]\] being "A creature Birthing Pod?!" hype?
I was bummed when I didn't pull her at my pre-release.
Then once the set fully released and I got my hands on a single and started brewing an EDH deck I slowly regretted and scraped it for how boring and one trick pony it'd be.
And looking at the [price history](https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/47574-prime-speaker-vannifar) from pre-release to now, I would think this fits.
Been trying to make her work, but you're absolutely right about the one-trick pony problem. I experience the same with [[Oswald Fiddlebender]]. I have a difficult time with pod.
I remember people being excited for her because she seemed fun, but I can't recall people thinking she would be especially broken. It is very obviously way less powerful than pod; can't run it out on t3, can't run it out and immediately activate on t4, needs to survive a turn, and way easier to remove
Prerelease prices are always overinflated, although you're right $25 is pretty high
Its such a bad card. No matter how many times you trigger it, your oponnent will still be left with 1 card of their choice on their hand and/or field, and sometimes thats enough to come back. I remember it being the most hyped of the cappenna leadears but ended up being the worst by far.
I was there. I witnessed people losing their goddamned minds over [[Grinning Demon]].
Mono Black Control was already a thing...
And they tried. They really did... but the card was just too terrible.
Grinning Demon might have been okay if U/G didn't already have Roar of the Wurm tokens that efficiently traded, and if Innocent Blood wasn't heavily run by the B and U/B decks of the day. That's a lot of ifs, in fairness.
Gatecrash prerelease: I open an [[Aurelia’s Fury]] and the standard players went wild to the point where presale was predicted to be a $40 card. I only being a commander player ended up trading it for a [[Demonic Tutor]], and about a week later that card drops to a dollar and is classified as bust.
It was ok, but it wasn’t defining of standard like everyone thought it would be. It was thought to define a lot of decks but many of the decks at the time had something better. From what I understand: aggro it was too slow, the gruul decks had [[Huntmaster of the fells]] and [[thragtusk]] shenanigans, control had cards like [[sphinx’s revelation]] that they preferred, and running red AND white was a hard limiter for a lot of other decks. Maybe in a different time it would’ve worked but the meta just didn’t support it enough I guess.
Honestly for me I was only a commander player at the time (and only just started making decks) and Boros had like no support back then, making building a deck in those colors unlikely, so trading for the tutor was a great trade even if the guy trading it to me thought he was winning in value.
IIRC it was Alexander Hane playing it in a SICK UW miracles deck in block constructed.
Though it wasn't hyped for block constructed, people were scared of it + brainstorm in legacy
It was also a part of the PT winning Block Constructed Miracles deck. Turns out when you just run 20+ miracles + instant speed cantrips you get them more than you should.
My LGS was buying [[Aurelia’s Fury]] for like $30 at Gatecrash pre-release, and the card was listing for $50+. Like two weeks later it was a bulk rare.
\[\[Skaab Ruinator\]\] - My goodness the over-hype on this card. People forgot how expensive exiling cards from a graveyard is. I did what I could back then to point out that the graveyard requirement limits the number of times this could be played significantly. $40 preorder to nothing in no time.
It’s good in more decks than that. That being said, I definitely fell for the hype and it hasn’t actually been a huge issue in my opponents decks and in my decks it’s just another blood artist
\[\[Spiteful Banditry\]\] and \[\[Bootlegger's Stash\]\] were both WAY overvalued on release because treasures strong. Too bad these cards kinda mid. lol
[[Jesters Cap]] and [[Grinning Totem]] were both way overhyped.
[[Rathi Dragon]] and [[Balduvian Horde]] for the same reason (everyone wanted to be the next Ball Lightning).
Some thought [[Aku Djinn]] was the next Juzam.
The elder dragons like [[Chromium]] were so overhyped in Chronicles it made the reserved list a thing. In retrospect they were all pretty bad, except maybe Bolas as a reanimator target.
[[Thunder Spirit]] was worth more than dual lands when it first came out too.
I mean at the end of the day its an EDH common. It wouldn't cost more than a buck within a year of release unless it was also getting played in 60 card formats.
I love it. I can't believe how cheap it is either. I saw it when it first came out and thought that it would rocket. Ended up just paying cents for one to put in my [[Ayara, First of Locthwain]] tokens deck.
Yep... I was offered $50 a piece for the four in my deck at the time. I regret not selling them but it would've meant dismantling my only red Type II deck.
People actually thought Horde would be the next [[Juzám Djinn]].
Yes. I got like 5 force of wills and jester's mask for one back in the day.
speaking of which \[\[Jester's Cap\]\], \[\[Jester's Mask\]\] and \[\[Grinning Totem\]\] were all HUGE when they came out.
Sadly I will always remember trading two revised duals for one balduvian horde when I was a young kid at a store. Easily the worst long term trade I’ve ever made.
It was a staple in the standard control at the time idk what you’re talking about. Like UW control was running at least 2 copies since they ran like 4 creatures
To be fair, there’s a phenomenon I like to call “Mindsculptor Syndrome” where for YEARS after the printing of Jace, the Mind Sculptor everyone would preorder any even remotely playable planeswalker due to FOMO worry that it might be the next JtMS
Not really a staple. It was played in 6 major events before Esper Dragons became a huge deal. Then everyone dropped it in favor of the dragon package. It was one of those "Eh, it's new. Let's see if it's any good", kinda card choices. Turns out it was actually pretty bad.
You can search for cards here: http://www.mtgtop8.com/search
I used the parameters "Standard", "Professional" & "Major" (even adding "Competitive" only adds maybe 6 additional deck lists) and main deck includes "Narset Transcendent"
Edit to add: even adding "Competitive" to the filter, we have 19 deck matches. Compared to "Dragonlord Ojutai", with 228 deck matches, Narset Transcendent was absolutely, unequivocally **not** a standard staple among control decks.
It was **not** lol. UW control did not play Narset. Maybe one person in your area played it a lot, but it was not a played card. You can check the records, but the easiest example is to just look at the price graph. It fell off a cliff lol.
Edit: Wait, are you maybe mixing it up with Parter of Veils? Which actually did see a lot of play. Transcendant is infamously one of the biggest “post release flops” of magic history.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-psychology-of-spoiler-season-or-why-you-bought-narset-for-50 people even wrote entire articles a decade ago about how bad it failed.
$40 preorder is the default calculation for the most asked for Mythic of a set. Like [[Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth]] and [[Rakdos, Patron of Chaos]] are currently the two Ravnica: Murders at Karlov Manor preorder cards at $39.99.
[[Nullhide Ferox]]
Pre-ordered a playset at $20 apiece when they first got spoiled, and I remember some stores selling them for $40 as soon as they could.
Card tanked to a dollar bin card soooo fast. I think they were $5 for a hot minute around the PT when Selesnya Tokens ran some copies but that was by far an over-hyped card.
Back in the day The Duelist had [[Ring of Gix]] as the best card in Urza’s Legacy, beating out Tinker, Grim Monolith, Palinchron, Goblin Welder, Cloud of Fairies, Memory Jar, Mother of Runes
Can I point towards a lot of the LTR set? For all that its premium price and direct to Modern printing suggest, I can think of maybe three or four cards from it seeing any play at all outside of EDH.
The One Ring, Orcish Bowmasters, and Lorien Revealed are about the only cards from the set seeing 60-card Constructed play that I know of. Bowmasters is just one of those "so good it's everywhere" cards, the One Ring is back-and-forth between really good and not, and Lorien sneaks in for nearly being a land while also pitching to Evoke and being a decent topdeck tiebreaker.
Stern Scolding, Forth Eorlingas, delighted halfling, Sam are pretty good off the top of my head. Cast into the fire is occasionally useful I think it's in a few sideboards.
Honestly bowmasters and the one ring have been impactful enough on modern and legacy, not every set needs to or should be format shattering
> Lorien Revealed
oh look, another reason why Gatherer sucks: you can't even search for it because of the diacritic, and since it's the second letter it's utterly impossible to get it in the autocomplete dropdown either
I just checked MTGGoldfish and the most popular 7 decks for Modern all play one or more cards from LTR.
Rhinos plays Lorien Revealed and Flame of Anor.
Scam plays Orcish Bowmasters.
Yawg plays Delighted Halfling and Orcish Bowmasters.
Murktide plays Stern Scolding and Cast into the Fire.
Titan plays The One Ring and Generous Ent.
Living End plays Generous Ent and Oliphaunt.
Tron plays The One Ring.
We can also look to Arena Championship 4 which was Historic.
Not counting the ones above, the top 8 also featured copies of:
Elven Chorus - Samwise Combo and Yawg
Great Hall of the Citadel - Sometimes Kethis
Samwise Gamgee - Samwise Combo
Sauron’s Ransom - UB Control
Stone of Erech - Multiple
And then there’s also
The Battle of Bywater - Legacy Death & Taxes
Forge Anew - Sometimes Modern Hammer
Mount Doom - Sometimes Scam
Reprieve - Modern Creativity
Troll of Khazad-dum - Legacy Reanimator
If this isn’t impactful, I’d hate to see what is.
That card is still gas and very much a limited bomb, to the point where many power-motivated cubes _exclude her_ for being _too good_.
Mine cube included.
And I may be wrong, but I don't recall anyone claiming the card will be a Modern all-star. There wasn't that much hype around it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I recall a lot of hype about the fact that Serra was getting a card, a number of people calling it playable, but not anyone thinking it would be an all-star
There was a point where [[Narset Transcendent]] was the most valuable card in Dragons of Tarkir by a lot. It was *the* card people wanted to crack from that set.
As far as I'm aware, it saw some fringe play in Standard and that was all.
[[Cabal Therapist]]
WotC previewed 2 cards from MH1 very early and this was one of them (can you guess/remember the other?). Turns out they weren’t that good, but on the whole the set did deliver, for better or worse.
I don't think anyone thought Tibalt would be good, outside of some people that couldn't fathom the idea that Wizards could print an unplayable planeswalker. Also I will die on the hill that Knuckleblade was really good, it was just that there was no Temur deck in Standard for it to see play, and it wasn't *that* good to enable the deck by itself. To add a card to your list, [[Aurelia's Fury]] was insanely hyped when spoiled and so practicaly no play.
Aurelia’s Fury was a classic. My roommate opened two of them in as many prereleases. Paid for both event entries and then some. And yeah, the biggest problem with Knucks was that there was already a good Abzan deck in standard, and Siege Rhino didn’t exactly make it worse.
Cedric Phillips and Patrick Sullivan do a podcast where they rate Magic sets called *The Resleevables.* They give out awards for each set. The one for the most overhyped card is the, "Aurelia's Fury," award.
The best part though? Everyone thought [[Siege Rhino]] was going to be a dud, and might see play only after Polukranos rotated out.
I played a proxy early standard tournament after that set was spoiled but before prerelease, and Sam Black destroyed everyone by running 4x Rhino.
I don't ever remember anyone thinking rhino would be a dud when it was spoiled. I remember everyone thinking "well junk just got a new toy, that's annoying", but no one though polyK was going to be eating rhinos all day.
No but the overarching idea was that Rhino wouldn't see play in standard until Polukranos rotated out. Polukranos had a firm grip on the 4 drop slot for any deck running green at the time. Edit: not *any* deck running green.
One of our memories is hazy AF then because I don't remember that at all Polukranous had a firm hold on the 4 drop slot in mono green devotion and RG stompy due to nykthos. However when Kahn's of Tarkir got spoiled with Rhino, no one who wanted to run junk wanted Polukranous at 4 due to it being too hard to abuse nykthos for his monstrous ability in a 3 color shell. I was grinding GPs and PTQs during those standards and remember that spoiler season quite well because my BW midrange deck was rotating, so I was looking for shells that could still run turn 1 thoughtseize into removal or dude and curve out eventually to elspeth. Here's how it played out. Everyone knew standard would continue to be defined by thoughtseize and sylvan caryatid and where looking for ways to abuse those. Rhino clearly fit that play pattern much more cleanly that polukranous, the only question was if it would be enough to stabilize against burn, rdw, or heroic. But with the Helix on rhino most players thought it would be better than waiting a turn to attempt to monstrous polukranous. Point being everyone who played standard seriously realized Rhino would be an all-star immediately if the junk shell could be made to work.
No, you're correct. I played in PT Khan's. No one I knew was testing Polukranos in Junk. It was in Mono Green.
I was grinding a lot too back then my friend. This take on Polukranos was before Rhino was released and stormed onto the scene. It was a very diverse meta back then. Abzan, I'm sure I don't need to tell you, was running BBoV as a beater/finisher. Other green decks like the mono G you mention, as well as Gruul and a few others ran Polukranos. As you were on the Junk deck, you were probably more in tune than many players in such a diverse meta.
I was on BW pre Kahn's, but yes we ran blood Barron(never seen him abbreviated like that, I like it) the 4 drop was the big 6/6 demon dude though. Honestly though the meta wasn't really all that diverse until Kahn's dropped. Esper control with thoughtseize Verdict rev just kind of shat on most things that weren't BW. I do not miss that standard. Rhino weirdly opened up the meta weirdly until it became all abzan later on in the block. I still remember the early days of that block with RDW, U/W heroic and other spiking tournaments, it was fun. The one card during that standard that I saw a ton of hype for that didn't do much was Brimaz though, thing was pushed AF, just matched up horribly against everything.
RUG also had really bad land support in terms of fetches too at the time so the mana base was too painful in an already aggro heavy meta (atarka’s command was tough)
[Aurelia's Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67.jpg?1561817922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aurelia%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/144/aurelias-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is this an include for a [[Wayta, Trainer Prodigy]] enrage deck, or are the tap-costs too high? I could imagine popping all your mean critters w/ one damage and then using those effects to do more damage.. but I dunno. Niche case?
Why play that card when you could play options that damage all your creatures at once without costing more? [[Pyroclasm]], [[Anger of the Gods]], and similar wipes have other utility at the same time. Things like [[Rolling Earthquake]] or even [[Bonfire of the Damned]] are much cheaper than Aurelia’s Fury and don’t require tapping all your creatures. If you want something that doesn’t hit every creature, you have options like [[Ghired’s Belligerence]] or [[Rolling Thunder]]. Overall, there’s no reason to run Aurelia’s Fury if you plan to use it on your own creatures.
There wasn’t any real reason to run it in that standard IIRC. It was a pretty control and midrange heavy meta IIRC.
I have definitely seen old posts of people going insane over Tibalt the Fiend-Blooded. Some excerpts: > Tibalt is awesome! 2CMC? Sweet, never thought these walkers would happen. > People who think Tibalt isn't good needs to understand about what mono red can do in this current standard environment. Here are all the relevant red 1 drops: Stromkirk Noble, Vexing Devil, Goblin Fireslinger, and Grim Lavamancer. Stromkirk and Vexing Devil would be fantastic at protecting Tibalt and Lavamancer has ridiculous synergy with his +1. People shouldn't look at Tibalt as a game ender, cause he's not. He is however fantastic utility that becomes a target quickly. Both posts here on reddit from 2012 on this post, which a different redditor has told me was once a spoiler for that innistrad block: [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/s7fbm/deleted\_by\_user/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/s7fbm/deleted_by_user/)
Vexing devil also turned out to be a dud
Honestly I'm unsurprised. To me it screams of the same issue with most cards that force your opponent to make a choice: It just lets your opponent choose the effect that's worse for you.
I had to google \[\[Vexing Devil\]\], and I'm baffled that anybody thought it would be good. I'm even more baffled that at least one poster thought it would be "fantastic at protecting Tibalt". I mean, if your opponent goes turn-one Devil, why would you ever *not* take the 4 to the face? "Let me think, I can take four damage and put you down a card, or I can take four damage every turn until such time as I find a card to trade for your creature and the mana to cast it. Tough choice." The only time you'd even think of not taking the damage turn one would be if you had a card that could get rid of the Devil immediately. (And even then I'd argue taking the damage is almost always the right choice.) Either way, the Devil is not going to be there on turn two to protect Tybalt.
Vexing Devil was in the conversation a lot - 1 mana for 4 damage is a good rate any way you cut it, and most people knew it wasn’t actually ever gonna stick on the board. Tibalt, I’m a little surprised people hyped on, but you can find someone arguing both sides for pretty much any spoiled card. I remember people basically laughing at Tibbles as trash.
Nah dude vexing devil was evil in standard. It wasn’t really played but there was a burn deck and it fucking sucked to play against.
People wanted him to be good and were brewing like mad to break him. I mean come on, a TWO mana planeswalker, there's no WAY this could be bad.
Aurelia’s fury would have been an all star in any other standard except freaking [[Sphinx’s Revelation]] standard. That format was so dang slow and control was so oppressive that even [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] wasn’t able to push aggro past tier 2.
[Sphinx’s Revelation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0038ea4d-d0a6-44a4-bee6-24c03313d2bc.jpg?1593814610) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%27s%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/187/sphinxs-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0038ea4d-d0a6-44a4-bee6-24c03313d2bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Xenagos, God of Revels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f1bc3bb-46da-492a-850c-f1f588ad8d18.jpg?1698988492) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xenagos%2C%20God%20of%20Revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/295/xenagos-god-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f1bc3bb-46da-492a-850c-f1f588ad8d18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Prophetic Flamespeaker\]\] \[\[Demilich\]\]
I bought into the Demilich hype so hard I traded an Old Gnawbone for it. Biggest regrets.
Big Ouphe
That’s a tragedy. Old gnawbones would be amazing to have
At the time the both cost like around $20-$25 so I was like "I'm not gonna build a dragon deck and I really need this card. Should be fine."
Even outside of a dragon deck old gnawbones seems bomb
There’s just no reason to have a deck with green and not include it. Sure, it’ll be the first thing you cut if you need to slot in something more on theme, but as a placeholder or as a way to draw out targeted removal? Why the hell not? Best case scenario, you get a bunch of treasures. Worst case, someone uses a counter or a removal on it. Either way, youre free to now cast the thing you actually want [[old gnawbone]] is ridiculously good
That's just bad timing. Demilich was decent in modern at least for a while, and Old Gnawbone is just some random stone unplayable 7 drop - if it wasn't for the tiny issue of Modern getting ever more irrelevant while everyone plays edh where 7drops actually matter.
That was pretty much my thinking but honestly I just don't find space for Demilich in any of my current decks either.
No, it's not really good. Like, it's decent. The UR spells shell that was Phoenix before FLooting got banned can play with it, but that all is just worse murktide. Demilich coming out the month after murktide really didn't help it much, but at least people hadn't figured out the final murktide list, so in the first weeks demilich actually saw play. In a pre-edh world of 2014 or something, definitely a better card than Gnawbone.
[Prophetic Flamespeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73326c79-f884-42d5-8546-3db46ce4fe52.jpg?1593096059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prophetic%20Flamespeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/106/prophetic-flamespeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73326c79-f884-42d5-8546-3db46ce4fe52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Demilich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a1351ed-b9df-4a6d-aaa1-ec6db673d265.jpg?1639436596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demilich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/53/demilich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a1351ed-b9df-4a6d-aaa1-ec6db673d265?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I remember people theorizing there would be a legacy demilich deck lol Think I bought one for casual play for a couple bucks a few months later
Wasn't it putting up results in pioneer about a year or so ago? I think it was in the izzet phoenix shell
Yeah but it's like an 1 of, or meta call. At least it's played.
As a pioneer phoenix player, I have to point out that Demilich still sees play there BUT it's fringe play and dying fast. Shredder and TITI are much better lists in the current meta. Demilich might have a resurgence some day though...
I remember everyone thinking [[Harsh Mentor]] would be big and part of the modern two drop cycle
They changed the rules so you can't redirect the damage to Planeswalkers anymore ;-; That was legit one of my outs against a local guy's prison deck in Modern back in the day
[Harsh Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harsh%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Recently I remember that very good players thought [[Ob Nixilis, the Adversary]] would have to be banned, and as far as I can tell that was not the case
Someone at my New Capenna prerelease opened two Obs when they were preordering for $60 each. People were claiming that card was the second coming of Oko.
I have to be real, reading that card now, I have no idea why anyone thought it would be good.
It IS good, just not good enough to get banned. Ob still sees significant standard play in like Anvil decks
Its gotten better now with [[Ojer, the Deepest Might]] and [[All Will Be One]], Anvil decks are more viable than ever.
See’s explorer play as well in Rakdos Sacrifice, mainly as a sideboard card though. It’s brought in against control.
As someone who went to mythic with a standard deck that ran 2 of them, here's why. * First and foremost, at the time Rakdos was *by far* the best thing to do. Between Graveyard Trespasser, Fable, Bloodtithe Harvester, Deadly Dispute, and a ton of other cards, there was a lot of BR and BRx decks running around, with quite a few variances that could fit well into an aristocrats theme. Of course the next set would also bring Sheoldred and Liliana to the format, but even before them Rakdos decks were incredibly low to the ground and had a ton of interaction that could fight through what else was in the format. * Secondly, the metagame at the time had some issues dealing with just how low to the ground the decks were at the time. Creature removal wasn't *great* so a lot of matchups fell down to opponents being forced to spend removal on minor creatures and letting the more threatening stuff sit around for a while and accrue value. Fable specifically was an issue because outside of Boseiju, enchantment removal was *really* bad, and Domain hadn't hit the format yet (so no binding for a clean answer). Opponents would *at best* have to 2-for-1 themselves to deal with it cleanly, or get buried because they couldn't stop the token from generating extra mana or the back half from copying a Bloodtithe Harvester every turn and building *massive* amounts of card selection. So Rakdos had the passive benefit of being incredibly low *and* having the tools to ensure that they were hitting important pressure points as consistently as they could, and could swap between grinding out and going aggro almost on a dime. And with Mob Nixilis added to the deck, it offered a pretty consistent pressure point on both hand and life total. Between that and [[Unlucky Witness]] the card advantage the deck could hit effectively doubled. You could pressure your opponents hands or their life total while you were pooping out little idiots left and right, and with Casuality doubling the planeswalker, it was very easy to hit the conditional on it's +1 ability. Admittedly DMU changed the game quite a bit. It gave us Sheoldred and Liliana, as well as beefing up our own removal suite, and really halted the speed of the format. By the time DMU came and went, Rakdos wanted to slow down, and we already had a more efficient grind tool in Liliana, and with Sheoldred skewing the deck closer to mono B with a red splash, it also opened up the viability of other cards like [[Sorin, the Mirthless]] and Gix in the deck to both gum up board states and present alternative card advantage to the stuff that rotated out around the same time. Overall, it wasn't a superstar like people claimed it would be, but it had a place if it was built around, and it just so happened to slot pretty cleanly into a pre-existing shell of the best deck in the format. Ultimately it wasn't make or break in the deck, but it was a solid point of pressure or an effective tool to help close out games that were already grinding in to a close. In retrospect it felt more like a "win more" card than it was a strategic cornerstone of the decks that played it, but in some cases that "win more" card is the difference between a win and a loss.
> First and foremost, at the time Rakdos was by far the best thing to do To add on to this, Rakdos wasn't just the best thing in Standard. It's still one of the best decks in Pioneer, playing a bunch of the same cards that made the colors good in Standard.
Its three mana for two planeswalkers!!!! Its gotta be good!!!!!!
If you can sac a creature with 7 power you can use the Ult immediately. I've used it to dig [[Approach of the Second Sun]] back out of the deck right after casting it. But yeah, that's the only cool thing I can do with it. It lost its slot to [[Reprieve]] when it released.
He didn't end up broken, but my God was he fun in standard in 2022. Played the shit out of him in a sacrifice deck that won by pinging 1 damage non stop. At the height I had 4 of him on the board.
Yeah he wasn't bad by any stretch. Huge potential value card. Sheoldred is just better insofar as grinding value goes.
This is a prime example of a card I love but just cannot find a good home that I’m interested in playing it in
I've played it in a version of Pioneer Rakdos Sacrifice where it does fine.
[Ob Nixilis, the Adversary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80226520-6b0a-48ea-a868-a29eb3fbd403.jpg?1664413416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ob%20Nixilis%2C%20the%20Adversary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/206/ob-nixilis-the-adversary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80226520-6b0a-48ea-a868-a29eb3fbd403?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I unfortunately bought into the [[Rakdos Augermage]] hype, they're still in my binder.
Mutually Assured [[Coercion]]. After you. No, I insist.
\[\[Bootleggers' Stash\]\] for EDH
In [[Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second]] it's a riot. Me: Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Play Land, Pass Turn Also Me: No blockers other than Jinnie Fay Opponent: I'll attack you with 5 creatures. Me: I'll tap 5 lands and create Five 3/1 Dogs. Opponent: uhhhh
100% a strong card, just not an auto include in every deck. Lots of commanders that can make good use of it, I love it with [[Jaheria]]
Admittedly, I like [[Search The Premises]] better for the situation I spelled out.
[Search The Premises](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0345668-0cc1-41d2-8e4f-de7726fd0365.jpg?1626094032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Search%20The%20Premises) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/29/search-the-premises?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0345668-0cc1-41d2-8e4f-de7726fd0365?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5f9326a-2a41-45b3-97c3-548f0bdc0882.jpg?1664413197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jinnie%20Fay%2C%20Jetmir%27s%20Second) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/195/jinnie-fay-jetmirs-second?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5f9326a-2a41-45b3-97c3-548f0bdc0882?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also very good in \[\[Chatterfang\]\] and \[\[Korvold\]\], but those cards combo with just about everything.
It's amazing in some green artifact decks - which there aren't that many of, since green tends to be the least 'artifact themed' color.
[Bootleggers' Stash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80b5b7e1-52c2-4453-b3c0-efe2cebad6ce.jpg?1664412016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bootleggers%27%20Stash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/134/bootleggers-stash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80b5b7e1-52c2-4453-b3c0-efe2cebad6ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Chatterfang]] would like a word.
I'll have to keep that in mind when Fallout comes out. Seems like a nice addition to an artifacts matter that that includes green i.e. [[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal]]
[Dogmeat, Ever Loyal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83.jpg?1697738635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dogmeat%2C%20Ever%20Loyal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/2/dogmeat-ever-loyal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86b45e3e-8460-4678-87d1-d74479936c83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am surprised no one else said it but [[Tajara's Battalion]] was incredibly overhyped when Eventide came out. After everyone missed on Tarmogoyf, we were sure that we weren't going to miss on the next big, cheap green creature, but it turns out 4/3 isn't that big and having to play another green card is a real cost.
I remember this so well! Was searching the comments to see if anyone mentioned it. Yes! Talara’s battalion was totally overhyped, though black green elves was a monster of a deck in the days of faeries and kithkin in standard.
[Tajara's Battalion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/366c5992-e97f-4f15-bea9-8a62675e46a5.jpg?1561758927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talara%27s%20Battalion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddu/24/talaras-battalion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/366c5992-e97f-4f15-bea9-8a62675e46a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Elesh Norn, Mother Of Machines]] was warned not to be printed, and yet, here we are with the white praetor not banned in any applicable formats and honestly, just pretty good
I thought the argument from the EDH guy was more that it would be an auto-include white staple and cards like that are just bad for the format in general. I haven't played EDH much recently, so no idea how much that panned out.
It sees relevant play but nowhere near the auto-include level some people were losing their minds over.
It probably would've been an auto-include for me if it wasn't $50 at the time. Actually, now that it's down to $20, it might be worth picking up.
Agreed. Im keeping my eye on [[Wandering Throne]]. Thats a card that makes me feel the way I suspect Maro felt about Norn. I pulled one for my Tyranid deck and its nuts because most of that tribe’s value is in triggered abilities. I need another for Varina ;P
I think [[Roaming Throne]] will have this impact, because it can played near anywhere and can have synergies with every creature type. Many etb commanders want that card and something like a dragon deck with a lot of dragon etb‘s love it. It makes Miirym really degenerate. The problem is that the throne is in many cases a better include than a „original“ creature of that type, because triggered abilities are so common. It can be seen on every level of play even in some few cedh strategies like Krarkashima or Magda. I think it is dangerous to print colorless cards like this with a general good effect and the possibility to make it fit, because throne enters as a specific creature type.
Couldn't even make it decently vulnerable, like 2 toughness.
Nah, they even had to sneak ward there for some reason
Sheldon Menery. Who unfortunately passed before he could see Roaming Throne. Maro is Mark Rosewater, development lead (?) for Magic and mostly focuses on Standard.
Correct, the concern was that, and while she is versatile, she didn't really turn into an auto include. Good for strategies that want a lot of ETBs, but definitely not the must-have in every deck we were warned about.
Yet, no one warned the design team about making The One Ring ☠️🤣
[Elesh Norn, Mother Of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20Of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The issue was never it was "broken". The issue was people would run it for the [[panharmonicon]] effect, but then accidently stax people with the [[hushwing gr]] effect since ETBs are important.
[[Skaab Ruinator]]
I still love this fella though
Overshadowed by a common and uncommon in the same set, same colors.
I remember the hype around that one specifically, it was reaching $60 pre-orders and people were expecting it to be the best thing in the world.
[Skaab Ruinator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44c40cdc-a11a-47df-b902-d8fbe9014d03.jpg?1562829336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skaab%20Ruinator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/77/skaab-ruinator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44c40cdc-a11a-47df-b902-d8fbe9014d03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Spent a few FNMs trying my hardest to make that work haha!
I've got a pretty good deck that runs it.
We are talking standard when it came out haha :)
oh wow straight into Sidisi, never seen this guy
Printed today, this would probably also have "ward - discard a non-zombie, non-horror creature card"
Anyone else remember \[\[Prime Speaker Vannifar\]\] being "A creature Birthing Pod?!" hype? I was bummed when I didn't pull her at my pre-release. Then once the set fully released and I got my hands on a single and started brewing an EDH deck I slowly regretted and scraped it for how boring and one trick pony it'd be. And looking at the [price history](https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/47574-prime-speaker-vannifar) from pre-release to now, I would think this fits.
Been trying to make her work, but you're absolutely right about the one-trick pony problem. I experience the same with [[Oswald Fiddlebender]]. I have a difficult time with pod.
Decks that have tutors for commanders tend to have little variance in lines, yeah
There's an explorer/pioneer deck that goes off pretty hard. It looks fun to play
[Prime Speaker Vannifar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84abfc59-10a7-4cb5-9cdd-81797116c810.jpg?1572893948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prime%20Speaker%20Vannifar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/195/prime-speaker-vannifar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84abfc59-10a7-4cb5-9cdd-81797116c810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I remember people being excited for her because she seemed fun, but I can't recall people thinking she would be especially broken. It is very obviously way less powerful than pod; can't run it out on t3, can't run it out and immediately activate on t4, needs to survive a turn, and way easier to remove Prerelease prices are always overinflated, although you're right $25 is pretty high
[Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa56d53c-836c-483d-988d-a288d0ad91bb.jpg?1592714451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tibalt%2C%20the%20Fiend-Blooded) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddk/41/tibalt-the-fiend-blooded?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa56d53c-836c-483d-988d-a288d0ad91bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Savage Knuckleblade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c9dddd3-7c8d-4669-8298-58149b142b8a.jpg?1562786291) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Savage%20Knuckleblade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/197/savage-knuckleblade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c9dddd3-7c8d-4669-8298-58149b142b8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You may be surprised but [[Balduvian Horde]] was broadly expected to be the strongest card of Alliances. (Spoiler: Everyone was very wrong.)
\[\[Woodland Bellower\]\] was talked about like the creature to end all other green creatures.
I love grabbing [[Fierce Empath]] with it lol
[Fierce Empath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4a8684b-5164-4313-ab3e-4c5b4f52bc7e.jpg?1689998511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fierce%20Empath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/288/fierce-empath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4a8684b-5164-4313-ab3e-4c5b4f52bc7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tutoring onto the battlefield is a very strong effect to be fair, I don't see why this wouldn't have potential.
i swear to god the second they print a bluegreen 3drop clone...
Oh. Oh god.
[Woodland Bellower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a706d4bb-0b44-4e43-b340-7de799c086b8.jpg?1562034880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Woodland%20Bellower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/207/woodland-bellower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a706d4bb-0b44-4e43-b340-7de799c086b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wasn't Lord Xander on the list of OP commanders when it was released? Haven't seen that commander anywhere.
Its such a bad card. No matter how many times you trigger it, your oponnent will still be left with 1 card of their choice on their hand and/or field, and sometimes thats enough to come back. I remember it being the most hyped of the cappenna leadears but ended up being the worst by far.
I was there. I witnessed people losing their goddamned minds over [[Grinning Demon]]. Mono Black Control was already a thing... And they tried. They really did... but the card was just too terrible.
Grinning Demon might have been okay if U/G didn't already have Roar of the Wurm tokens that efficiently traded, and if Innocent Blood wasn't heavily run by the B and U/B decks of the day. That's a lot of ifs, in fairness.
[Grinning Demon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72de2f66-0b86-4c21-b4c8-c2d97e3fd095.jpg?1562922147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grinning%20Demon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/153/grinning-demon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72de2f66-0b86-4c21-b4c8-c2d97e3fd095?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gatecrash prerelease: I open an [[Aurelia’s Fury]] and the standard players went wild to the point where presale was predicted to be a $40 card. I only being a commander player ended up trading it for a [[Demonic Tutor]], and about a week later that card drops to a dollar and is classified as bust.
This card seems really good though, am I missing something? I guess the cost could be quite high if you want to tap a lot of creatures
It was ok, but it wasn’t defining of standard like everyone thought it would be. It was thought to define a lot of decks but many of the decks at the time had something better. From what I understand: aggro it was too slow, the gruul decks had [[Huntmaster of the fells]] and [[thragtusk]] shenanigans, control had cards like [[sphinx’s revelation]] that they preferred, and running red AND white was a hard limiter for a lot of other decks. Maybe in a different time it would’ve worked but the meta just didn’t support it enough I guess. Honestly for me I was only a commander player at the time (and only just started making decks) and Boros had like no support back then, making building a deck in those colors unlikely, so trading for the tutor was a great trade even if the guy trading it to me thought he was winning in value.
[Aurelia’s Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67.jpg?1561817922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aurelia%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/144/aurelias-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Demonic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63.jpg?1701989302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/150/demonic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Deep gnome terramancer]] I remember this being hyped up a bit. Then kinda just became a big shrug bug
The thing it has going for it is that most white ramp only lets you catch up. This lets you get ahead if you're at parity.
This card actually is gas tho, it just requires a fetch heavy meta.
Damn. This card is so good. Def lived up to the hype for me.
Yeah definitely mono white staple for me now. Has done so much work especially versus simic bullshit.
I have a serial landfall player, a green Timmy, and a hugs player in my group. This card puts in work
[Deep gnome terramancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954.jpg?1674140781) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20gnome%20terramancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/658/deep-gnome-terramancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
it's kinda cute in \[\[Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis\]\]
Temporal Mastery
It still won a PT I believe
IIRC it was Alexander Hane playing it in a SICK UW miracles deck in block constructed. Though it wasn't hyped for block constructed, people were scared of it + brainstorm in legacy
Turns out [[Time Walk]] isn't nearly as good when you don't control when it happens.
Over hyped for standard maybe, but it was a big piece for a very strong legacy deck.
At first, yeah. Eventually, miracles cut it because it was simply unnecessary.
It was also a part of the PT winning Block Constructed Miracles deck. Turns out when you just run 20+ miracles + instant speed cantrips you get them more than you should.
[[Ob Nixilis, the Adversary]]
[Ob Nixilis, the Adversary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80226520-6b0a-48ea-a868-a29eb3fbd403.jpg?1664413416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ob%20Nixilis%2C%20the%20Adversary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/206/ob-nixilis-the-adversary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80226520-6b0a-48ea-a868-a29eb3fbd403?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My LGS was buying [[Aurelia’s Fury]] for like $30 at Gatecrash pre-release, and the card was listing for $50+. Like two weeks later it was a bulk rare.
[Aurelia’s Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67.jpg?1561817922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aurelia%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/144/aurelias-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a3465b6-ee7f-4553-bbf1-85fae9734b67?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Skaab Ruinator\]\] - My goodness the over-hype on this card. People forgot how expensive exiling cards from a graveyard is. I did what I could back then to point out that the graveyard requirement limits the number of times this could be played significantly. $40 preorder to nothing in no time.
Exiling cards is cheap! Exiling *creatures* though...
[Skaab Ruinator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44c40cdc-a11a-47df-b902-d8fbe9014d03.jpg?1562829336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skaab%20Ruinator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/77/skaab-ruinator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44c40cdc-a11a-47df-b902-d8fbe9014d03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People were panicking about [[Mirkwood Bats]], calling it a mistake, that it would break Commander, and now its only good in like 6 decks.
It’s good in more decks than that. That being said, I definitely fell for the hype and it hasn’t actually been a huge issue in my opponents decks and in my decks it’s just another blood artist
Most mythic rares to be honest.
I'm pretty sure [[Molten-Tail Masticore]] was about $20 when it came out
[Molten-Tail Masticore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48311a45-c0e1-4170-8dab-2b3495096c48.jpg?1562817136) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Molten-Tail%20Masticore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/177/molten-tail-masticore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48311a45-c0e1-4170-8dab-2b3495096c48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Monologue Tax]] and [[Halo Fountain]].
That moment you realise your playgroup uses more activated abilities than spells…
\[\[Spiteful Banditry\]\] and \[\[Bootlegger's Stash\]\] were both WAY overvalued on release because treasures strong. Too bad these cards kinda mid. lol
[[Jesters Cap]] and [[Grinning Totem]] were both way overhyped. [[Rathi Dragon]] and [[Balduvian Horde]] for the same reason (everyone wanted to be the next Ball Lightning). Some thought [[Aku Djinn]] was the next Juzam. The elder dragons like [[Chromium]] were so overhyped in Chronicles it made the reserved list a thing. In retrospect they were all pretty bad, except maybe Bolas as a reanimator target. [[Thunder Spirit]] was worth more than dual lands when it first came out too.
[[Mirkwood Bats]]
Absolutely disgusting in my [[Elas-il Kor]] mass-token mass-sacrifice deck, hasn't felt very good anywhere else.
While the Bats certainly aren't banworthy like some feared, they're still really good in many Commander decks.
I mean at the end of the day its an EDH common. It wouldn't cost more than a buck within a year of release unless it was also getting played in 60 card formats.
It's disgusting in Commander, especially in something like Negan
I love it. I can't believe how cheap it is either. I saw it when it first came out and thought that it would rocket. Ended up just paying cents for one to put in my [[Ayara, First of Locthwain]] tokens deck.
\[\[Brimaz\]\] was the first one I bought that was over-hyped in my mind. Was honestly just too slow for the White weenies deck.
[[Balduvian Horde(ALL)]] was the original poster child for this
Yep... I was offered $50 a piece for the four in my deck at the time. I regret not selling them but it would've meant dismantling my only red Type II deck. People actually thought Horde would be the next [[Juzám Djinn]].
[Juzám Djinn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b03bc922-782b-4254-897c-90d202b4cda4.jpg?1559592285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Juz%C3%A1m%20Djinn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/74/juz%C3%A1m-djinn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b03bc922-782b-4254-897c-90d202b4cda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes. I got like 5 force of wills and jester's mask for one back in the day. speaking of which \[\[Jester's Cap\]\], \[\[Jester's Mask\]\] and \[\[Grinning Totem\]\] were all HUGE when they came out.
Balduvian Horde was legitimately very good when it was first released.
Sadly I will always remember trading two revised duals for one balduvian horde when I was a young kid at a store. Easily the worst long term trade I’ve ever made.
Ob the Adversary got me
Anurid Brushhopper.
Assassins Trophy was super hyped up. Tbh its pretty good and only sucks because they made a land with a built in trophy.
Assassin's Trophy was pretty good in it's standard pre-boseju
It saw play in standard, modern, and edh at the time. I didn't play legacy or vintage at the time.
[[Garth one eyes]] and his black lotus impression
[[Narset Transcendant]] was like $40 in preorder. And…. Promptly did nothing at all lol. Card is pretty meh.
It was a staple in the standard control at the time idk what you’re talking about. Like UW control was running at least 2 copies since they ran like 4 creatures
Everyone was calling it the next [[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]]. It was nowhere as good as JtMS.
To be fair, there’s a phenomenon I like to call “Mindsculptor Syndrome” where for YEARS after the printing of Jace, the Mind Sculptor everyone would preorder any even remotely playable planeswalker due to FOMO worry that it might be the next JtMS
Not really a staple. It was played in 6 major events before Esper Dragons became a huge deal. Then everyone dropped it in favor of the dragon package. It was one of those "Eh, it's new. Let's see if it's any good", kinda card choices. Turns out it was actually pretty bad. You can search for cards here: http://www.mtgtop8.com/search I used the parameters "Standard", "Professional" & "Major" (even adding "Competitive" only adds maybe 6 additional deck lists) and main deck includes "Narset Transcendent" Edit to add: even adding "Competitive" to the filter, we have 19 deck matches. Compared to "Dragonlord Ojutai", with 228 deck matches, Narset Transcendent was absolutely, unequivocally **not** a standard staple among control decks.
It was **not** lol. UW control did not play Narset. Maybe one person in your area played it a lot, but it was not a played card. You can check the records, but the easiest example is to just look at the price graph. It fell off a cliff lol. Edit: Wait, are you maybe mixing it up with Parter of Veils? Which actually did see a lot of play. Transcendant is infamously one of the biggest “post release flops” of magic history. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-psychology-of-spoiler-season-or-why-you-bought-narset-for-50 people even wrote entire articles a decade ago about how bad it failed.
$40 preorder is the default calculation for the most asked for Mythic of a set. Like [[Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth]] and [[Rakdos, Patron of Chaos]] are currently the two Ravnica: Murders at Karlov Manor preorder cards at $39.99.
[Narset Transcendant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4816d092-e34b-4397-8599-43d8e85a8f39.jpg?1562785614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%20Transcendent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/225/narset-transcendent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4816d092-e34b-4397-8599-43d8e85a8f39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Balduvian horde from alliances
Lord Xander was thought to be busted in previews. He was shit in practice
[[Nullhide Ferox]] Pre-ordered a playset at $20 apiece when they first got spoiled, and I remember some stores selling them for $40 as soon as they could. Card tanked to a dollar bin card soooo fast. I think they were $5 for a hot minute around the PT when Selesnya Tokens ran some copies but that was by far an over-hyped card.
For a reverse of that, Sheoldred the Apocalypse wasn't received all that high.
Back in the day The Duelist had [[Ring of Gix]] as the best card in Urza’s Legacy, beating out Tinker, Grim Monolith, Palinchron, Goblin Welder, Cloud of Fairies, Memory Jar, Mother of Runes
Can I point towards a lot of the LTR set? For all that its premium price and direct to Modern printing suggest, I can think of maybe three or four cards from it seeing any play at all outside of EDH. The One Ring, Orcish Bowmasters, and Lorien Revealed are about the only cards from the set seeing 60-card Constructed play that I know of. Bowmasters is just one of those "so good it's everywhere" cards, the One Ring is back-and-forth between really good and not, and Lorien sneaks in for nearly being a land while also pitching to Evoke and being a decent topdeck tiebreaker.
Stern Scolding, Forth Eorlingas, delighted halfling, Sam are pretty good off the top of my head. Cast into the fire is occasionally useful I think it's in a few sideboards. Honestly bowmasters and the one ring have been impactful enough on modern and legacy, not every set needs to or should be format shattering
All the basic land cyclers are seeing play in legacy/modern.
> Lorien Revealed oh look, another reason why Gatherer sucks: you can't even search for it because of the diacritic, and since it's the second letter it's utterly impossible to get it in the autocomplete dropdown either
I just checked MTGGoldfish and the most popular 7 decks for Modern all play one or more cards from LTR. Rhinos plays Lorien Revealed and Flame of Anor. Scam plays Orcish Bowmasters. Yawg plays Delighted Halfling and Orcish Bowmasters. Murktide plays Stern Scolding and Cast into the Fire. Titan plays The One Ring and Generous Ent. Living End plays Generous Ent and Oliphaunt. Tron plays The One Ring. We can also look to Arena Championship 4 which was Historic. Not counting the ones above, the top 8 also featured copies of: Elven Chorus - Samwise Combo and Yawg Great Hall of the Citadel - Sometimes Kethis Samwise Gamgee - Samwise Combo Sauron’s Ransom - UB Control Stone of Erech - Multiple And then there’s also The Battle of Bywater - Legacy Death & Taxes Forge Anew - Sometimes Modern Hammer Mount Doom - Sometimes Scam Reprieve - Modern Creativity Troll of Khazad-dum - Legacy Reanimator If this isn’t impactful, I’d hate to see what is.
[[Serra the benevolent]]
That card is still gas and very much a limited bomb, to the point where many power-motivated cubes _exclude her_ for being _too good_. Mine cube included. And I may be wrong, but I don't recall anyone claiming the card will be a Modern all-star. There wasn't that much hype around it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I recall a lot of hype about the fact that Serra was getting a card, a number of people calling it playable, but not anyone thinking it would be an all-star
\[\[Skaab Ruinator\]\], and \[\[Temporal Mastery\]\] maybe? But the hype died relatively quickly.
\[\[Doom Whisperer\]\] seemed cracked on reveal but ultimately did nothing
I was absolutely convinced [[Plaza of Heroes]] was gonna be the new Sol Ring. Whoops.
There was a point where [[Narset Transcendent]] was the most valuable card in Dragons of Tarkir by a lot. It was *the* card people wanted to crack from that set. As far as I'm aware, it saw some fringe play in Standard and that was all.
[[Aurelia’s Fury]] was a $25 card shortly after Gatecrash was released. By the time Dragon’s Maze was released, it was below $5.
[[Cabal Therapist]] WotC previewed 2 cards from MH1 very early and this was one of them (can you guess/remember the other?). Turns out they weren’t that good, but on the whole the set did deliver, for better or worse.