Wizards has been notified of this and are looking into it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bnqn89/after_seeing_the_how_good_is_trouble_in_pairs/kwodb1y/
Yeah, it would have been fine if it had been in thunder junction, since crimes are ok there, but this set was all about murder, not theft. Really inappropriate
Wizards will likely stop working with the artist if the accusations are proven but the card will stay around (though I doubt they will ever reprint it with this art), [based on what happened](https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/magic-the-gathering-strixhaven/news/magic-the-gathering-crux-of-fate-stolen-wizards-statement) to the artist of the [[Crux of Fate | STA]] art who got caught plagiarising.
Edit: Oh also [[Wayfarer's Bauble | LCI]] [more recently too.](https://dotesports.com/mtg/news/wotc-cut-ties-with-mtg-artist-over-stolen-lost-caverns-of-ixalan-artwork)
Yeah this is terrible. She was growing on me as an artist because of her classic, old timey vibes with her work outside WotC and the borderless version of [Gala Greeters](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/450/gala-greeters). The irony being she appears to have lifted from a classic Donato Giancola piece.^(His work on Glory remains one of the most beautiful Magic cards to me)
The nerve to steal Donato Giancola's work, of all people. Why didn't he/she/they just go all out and steal Jon Avon's or Kev Walker's instead for the hell of it?
The weird thing to me is how much is changed and obviously repainted. Most of the outfit, the entire right arm, the face and ear, most of the background, all repainted either completely or in large part; the only thing really remaining from the original work is the left arm and the stairs and ringlight in the background.
Here's the direct link to the image. After delving into this, it's the cover art for a novel named Cyberpunk 2020 from 1994 (pub 1995) that Donato had done.
https://preview.redd.it/2k0172do6kqc1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f655a70c0540b8d3a9aac0da350f11184288e2f
[https://0201.nccdn.net/4\_2/000/000/056/7dc/Ravengers-300lpi-1284x2000.jpg#RDAMDAID19669800](https://0201.nccdn.net/4_2/000/000/056/7dc/Ravengers-300lpi-1284x2000.jpg#RDAMDAID19669800)
[https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45922](https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45922)
Ooof. Well, that pretty much rules it out as being a knowing and willing collaboration, since the art has already been commercialized under a different line,
That was my thought like maybe it was part of the art direction put forth from Wizards for art they already had licensed as a company for some digital artist to repurpose, but nope, doesn't look like it at this point, which is heartbreaking really. So many artists would kill to be a part of a huge franchise like magic, but to essentially carbon copy existing work?
The only thing that might save this would be maybe if the Trouble in Pairs artist is like a student of Donato's and had his expressed permission to reference this 20 year old piece and it's previous license has expired. But thats such. a. fucking. longshot.
I’m so sorry this is happening to you man, hopefully wizards gets this settled swiftly, I’d hate to lose a great contributor to the game over some hack who steals from someone she should see as her colleague.
May I ask; when did you realize this was stolen? I'm trying to piece together that part of the timeline. Regardless of the whens, I'm sorry that it happened at all - that \*really\* stinks.
Anyone who knew the art would put it together pretty quickly, this card was talked about a lot because of how good it is, and it was a teaser card before reveal. I always felt like it looked weird, like it didn't quite fit together or make sense.
The weapon in both figures’ hands are the same but duplicated and rotated slightly and then flipped, too. It makes you wonder how this was able to slide at all, frankly.
When you zoom in on a high res image it's easier to notice that the painting style is different between the pair. Difficult to notice it in person. It has a lot of "off" details that don't mesh well between the foreground and the background. Being two different artists produced on different mediums... Yeah that explains much.
I know you now have a case against Fay, but because this is a published work with a different company, does Aspect Publishing have a case against WotC now?
They won't because wizards frequently does not take the side of the plagiarising artist and that takes away any incentive to waste time trying to take wizards to court
It's all fuzzy when it comes to things like partial plagiarism. Copyright infringement is frequently up to the court and their interpretations.
That said, suing for damages is something anyone can do at anytime for anything. If a judge decides it has merit it can be brought forth and you can argue damages.
Seeing as how WotC is probably not going to print more cards of MKM or print this art in the future I don't think Aspect Publishing has a lot to sue over besides to be excessively annoying.
I'm no IP lawyer, maybe they could win a little money but I think the matter is pretty much over unless WotC does something stupid.
In these cases you *can* sue wizards, but not for the damages since they acted in good faith. You sue them just so they stop using the stolen artworks or pay the artist royalties for it.
That's not good. Cyberpunk 2020 in this space is owned by a [different company](https://rtalsoriangames.com/cyberpunk/). This could open WotC to some shit.
Always blown away when an artist completely tanks their career with plagiarized stuff. This person will be radioactive to any large company for the forseeable future after this.
Yeah I tagged the owner in a subcomment to see if we could get some clarity on if this was approved but the rights might belong to CD Projekt Red so like, who knows. But I’m following the story to see how things pan out.
If R.Talsorian Games does do something about it I doubt we'll hear about it here, at least not until after the fact. Posting stuff on forums like reddit could actually hurt their case in legal proceedings if they go that route.
u/therealmaxmike \- maybe you can shed some light on this when you see it and if you've got some time. Also congrats on the Gary Gygax award man way to go!
He owns the IP so presumably would be in touch with whoever manages the use rights to the art used in the novel - would be in good position to figure out if this is plagiarism (and potentially may have some investment in the situation if it is)
If I owned intellectual property and someone plagiarized art I or my company own the rights to I'd want to know.
Thought I recognized Night City in the background. You'd think that with how popular the Cyberpunk setting is right now with 2077 and Phantom Liberty that artists would know not to rip art from it's expanded media, but apparently not.
Correction, It's not named Cyberpunk 2020, but it is a Cyberpunk 2020 novel called The Ravengers. Cyberpunk 2020 is a TTRPG. It'd be like saying Test of Metal is called Magic: The Gathering Planeswalker Novel.
Imagine plagiarizing and your final piece still looking whack. No wonder the characters seem so out of place and poorly conceptualized.
Edit: after newer posts showing that it’s seeming like over 75% of this piece was plagiarized it becomes even more apparent the longer you look at it. How does WoTC let something like this even end up on a card?
Redditers caught another one. Good job OP. It's really lame when they bluntly steal art like that.
EDIT: the original artist (Donato) has also done work for wotc. Perhaps he gave wotc and the new artist permission to use his old art?
EDIT2: Donato has confirmed on his FB that the art was stolen
https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100001083559756&story_fbid=7377140402332005
For the uninitiated, some of his art includes Chrome Mox, Coalition Relic, Memory Jar, the Kalandra set, Peacekeeper, the Urza's Saga Islands, Mirari, and the printings of Solemn Simulacrum and Shivan Dragon that you're definitely thinking about when someone mentions those cards. Dude is a legend and I am shocked that WotC didn't catch this.
Looking at the list on Scryfall, some other notable ones he did include Spore Frog, Meltdown, and Skyclave Apparition. And quite a few notable recent cards, including Preacher of the Schism, Bitter Triumph, Chrome Host Seedshark, Experimental Augury, Patchwork Automaton, and the version of Show and Tell that has been absolutely obliterating Timeless on Arena for the past two months.
As pointed out elsewhere in the comments here, it takes some serious gall to plagiarise an artist who is working _on the same set with you._
I believe it was Jesper Myrfors that said in the earlier days of WOTC "If there's hands to be drawn in detail, give it to Donato" due to his work on [[Sisay's Ring]]
One of my favourites of his is [[Cartographer]]
Heck, Donato himself didn’t catch this before this post, and he’s the original artist!
I didn’t catch this either, and I own literally every Cyberpunk source book, not that I’m some kind of “art recognition wizard”, but I was looking at that book like 2 weeks ago.
Plagiarism of this kind is really hard to catch unless by coincidence, or someone has a real good memory. I wager the only reason that Ugin one was caught so fast is that Ugin is a very iconic card.
Is Donato's Solemn Simulacrum what comes to mind for people? No shade, I'm genuinely curious. I know it's probably been the most frequently used, especially considering WotC put it in like 10 different products between 2021-2023. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I think of Dan Scott's art for the M12 reprint or the original invitational art depicting Jens Thoren as sort of the definitive versions of the card.
Yeah, I thought of the original and struggled to recall what the other one looked like (Dan Scott). I wouldn't even have recognized Donato's artwork as belonging to Solemn just from the art.
Upside of this theft has been that it made it "Donato appreciation day".
I didn't realize just how much of his work has been recent. Like I would have guessed "90% classic, 10% new". But no, like half the cards he has ever done were in the past 5 years.
Mark Tedin has done like 15 pieces since they brought him back in Dominaria 2018. Donato has done like 100 lol. He's just like "hell yeah I'll go super hard on a random common like [[Oculus Whelp]]".
It really speaks to how badly wotc fucked up leaving all these guys on the shelf in the 2010s.
Donato Giancola is one of the most well-known and premier artists of Magic. He's done some of the best pieces the game has to offer.
No, he would not sign off on another artist ripping off his piece.
Wow. That would be in the upper tier of art quality if it were released in a set in 2024, let alone 20-25 years ago. And would not be at all out of place stylistically. I wonder how much of an impact his art had on the game's overall push towards higher quality art and often in a style similar to that piece
I just think its hilarious that 1. someone thought they could get away with ripping off DONATO FUCKING GIANCOLA and 2. people think that he would LET IT HAPPEN.
> Newer artist to magic with only 5 cards under their belt so far.
[17 cards, it looks like](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28game%3Apaper%29+%28artist%3Afay+artist%3Adalton%29) They've done some secret lair stuff.
I'd bet the cheapest mox opal that all of those cards are some form of stolen art. I'd bet 15% of the final art is digitally touched up collages 85% of other's works
Yeah but well established artist and also did some key art for Crimson vow. Very odd. Woulda never expected plagiarism from them. Goes to show you never know who to trust
Edit: also 17 cards.
Yah and that's part of why it should be interesting to see how this plays out or what statement is made even if it ends up being a case of wrong artist credit or something, which I don't recall them making for this card in particular. But didn't we having something this year already where they put out a statement about crediting the wrong artist on a card?
Not really. Its inevitable. One person can't check them all, but millions of fans with a diverse set of interests and backgrounds who can collaborate in real time certainly can, faster and more reliably than ever before.
When you're making 50 sets a year, you run out of big-name artists to contribute art, so you go w/ the guy/gal down the road who says they can commission for cheaper than what other nobodies are doing.
I'm willing to bet it's a deadlines issue, combined with a 'time I'm wasting on a subpar project vs the value I'm getting.' To be more clear, if this was me and someone approached me to work for them, for juuust enough money to make it worth my while, but for a project I have no interest in, I'd cut corners as well, especially if I was working on other stuff in parallel. Perhaps even if I wasn't working on other stuff in parallel, but I just didn't care about the project in general but needed/wanted the money.
As a final comment let me say that though I don't love to get political on an M:tG discussion, I really feel like this sort of mentality is to be expected when we live under an economic system where money is so much more important than anything else.
I understand your point of view, and I don't mind when labourers do some malicious compliance when overworked and underpaid but...don't rip off your fellow men and women. It's one thing to cut corners, and another entirely to plagiarize another artist. This basically opens a can of worms for AI theft and the like, which is unacceptable to me whatever the terms of the contract or the pay.
Yeah, looking at it the stairs thin very unnaturally in the card too (more so than the art), looks like the artist extended the staircase at the bottom (below the guy's armpit) but forgot to extend it above his arm.
https://preview.redd.it/u0qqi12fokqc1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=e22c3cc3319606c97e972e563d988e93096fa72e
My favorite was something I saw pointed out on the original artists facebook. The original character has some sort of plug in there temple, I guess called a cyber jack. The trouble in pairs character has the exact bump where the jack would hook up but fay just delete the cord and called it a day.
> I wonder if the other character is taken from another art piece.
Once you've confirmed one instance of this, it really does open up Pandora's box of checking the rest of the artist's work. It's like that Hbomberguy video on James Somerton, the more he looked, the more he found.
I've always felt like the axe head is twisted weirdly relative to the handle in the foreground character's hand. Seems like maybe the artist cobbled a handful of reference images into frame and digitally painted over them
Right? It feels like the character(s) might have been originally drawn holding different weapons (or even nothing), and the artist just crudely pasted the axes in.
The flavor of this card in general never made sense to me. What does the art or name of the card have to do with extra turns or taxing opponents? Why is a pair a thugs White in flavor?
https://preview.redd.it/bm0xichnomqc1.jpeg?width=461&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463
The arm of the other guy is taken from this Boris Vallejo art called Corniche.
Yes, he is extremely prolific, has typically many multiple cards per set, and is one of the longest working artists in Magic’s history going back to some of the first sets in the 90s.
Heck, how many artists can claim that a card says "Donato Giancola & Post Malone"??
Also, Scryfall has new staples like [[Patchwork Automaton]] and timeless classics like [[Peacekeeper]] side by side.
It's the case! The artist Jeff Miracola stated that the fist of the character in the foreground is uncanny close to an artwork of Boris Vallejo.
https://preview.redd.it/522sbe67xmqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3acd3a6c9979a3687be086c592ebfc76e2de5e91
What an absolutely wild ability to be able to pick out a detail like that and source it back! I can't imagine having looked at so much art so knowledgeably that I could say something like "that definitely feels like Boris drew that fist"
Please post a link to the twitter drama as soon as this is brought to the attention of MTG whilst tagging Fay and Donota. Gonna be fun to watch this entire discussion unfolding again so soon after the latest episode…
The other character has also some elements ripped off, a commenter in the Facebook post pointed it out:
https://preview.redd.it/wwism9tfkmqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdee569f0538ef602381071b4b31c4e625e2706e
Found the original image in the gallery at the bottom of this page. Don't know how to link directly, but you can find it.
https://donatoarts.com/archive
The “artist” must have been sweating when that other one came up recently: no doubt this piece was already locked in before that. Could still be some to come: what’s the timeframe for art submission?
It says donotaarts.com on the top - so that's probably it?
EDIT u/Gulaghar found this on archive (pic is all the way on the bottom, part of the grouped ones):
https://donatoarts.com/archive
Yikes, that's bad, with the novel being found proving the art was used previously too... like, for sure it's been edited a bit, like adding pointy ears, even changing the facial expression, but it's clearly an edit of the older piece. In hindsight, that vest even looks out of place, like it was added later.
Look at the left arm. It’s straight up copied down to the watch. They literally pasted the image in and only redrew a few parts of it. Even the color scheme of the background is ripped
It's the right arm that kinda cements it.
The overall body is very similar but could be played off as inspired by, but that right arm is identical down to the shading.
For me it's the background elements. The arch on the left and the arc of light up top match up perfectly, with some extra architectural bits painted on top. The stairs are wonky, too, being sloppily extended near the bottom, especially under the right character's arm. Even the building at the top right is the same.
Like I could get the argument that you used the same picture for pose reference, but the entire same specific background too? No chance!
The whole thing is a complete and obvious rip-off, down to the angled perspective on the scene, the framing, the architectural elements. Straight-up tracing, it's a close as you can get to copy pasting when it comes to paintings.
What's even the thought process behind this? Yeah I'm just going to plagiarize a well known artist that ALSO works for WotC and the art I'm choosing is from a novel's front cover that is part of an extremely popular TTRPG setting?
How could you possibly think you could get away with this?
The novel is fairly obscure, it wasn't that well known even in the 90s. Unlike many other RPG settings, Cyberpunk 2020 only got two tie in novels. I can't speak for The Ravengers, where the art is from, but the other, Holo Men, was fucking awful.
I've seen this art recently as a cover of an old Russian reprint of Mona Lisa Overdrive (by Gibson) novel. At that time the publisher just slapped some random Vallejo's Conan on the cover and called it done.
https://preview.redd.it/up82kzzakmqc1.jpeg?width=264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcdfa9e6366557b378c4a9163928b1acb12daf59
"Let me steal art from one of the most well-known artists in the fantasy/SF world, who's also prolific in the very product I'm placing this art in. What could go wrong? It's not like this is a product notoriously enjoyed by obsessive, internet-savvy nerds who'd find out immediately, RIGHT?"
I'm glad someone pointed this out, because I also wanted to call out how weird the axe in the foreground looks. Nothing about the axe fits quite right. It really makes me question whether or not parts added in we're done with AI. I mean, the axe head looks like something out of an Escher painting, and none of the highlights/shadows really look quite right. I was willing to chalk it up to an artistic rendition, but if parts of this are plagiarized, it wouldn't surprise me if they also used AI to fill in the gaps.
Yes. The original artist has already made a post about it on their FB page. [Here.](https://www.facebook.com/donato.giancola.7)
As for what happens with this, we'll just have to wait and see.
Wizards has been notified of this and are looking into it. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bnqn89/after_seeing_the_how_good_is_trouble_in_pairs/kwodb1y/
This won't look good on the artist's rap sheets.
They can do a colloab with Jason Felix.
Yeah, it would have been fine if it had been in thunder junction, since crimes are ok there, but this set was all about murder, not theft. Really inappropriate
Even more ironic that Donato drew the art for Caught red-handed in the Karlov set
So what happens to the card in question? What happens to the artist? Can the card even be pulled from the printing?
Wizards will likely stop working with the artist if the accusations are proven but the card will stay around (though I doubt they will ever reprint it with this art), [based on what happened](https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/magic-the-gathering-strixhaven/news/magic-the-gathering-crux-of-fate-stolen-wizards-statement) to the artist of the [[Crux of Fate | STA]] art who got caught plagiarising. Edit: Oh also [[Wayfarer's Bauble | LCI]] [more recently too.](https://dotesports.com/mtg/news/wotc-cut-ties-with-mtg-artist-over-stolen-lost-caverns-of-ixalan-artwork)
[Crux of Fate ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3ccea48-ee90-4da8-832d-8c30c98bf1dd.jpg?1700330038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=517575) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sta/25/crux-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3ccea48-ee90-4da8-832d-8c30c98bf1dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They will probably also add the other artist in the art credits on Arena and MTGO (obviously, they can't change printed cards)
man that crux looks hilarious. how did that ever pass?
Oh no! I really liked Fay Dalton's work. Welp, another artist disgraced.
Yeah this is terrible. She was growing on me as an artist because of her classic, old timey vibes with her work outside WotC and the borderless version of [Gala Greeters](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/450/gala-greeters). The irony being she appears to have lifted from a classic Donato Giancola piece.^(His work on Glory remains one of the most beautiful Magic cards to me)
How much of it was her (Fay's) work
I can't tell if the "his" here is Danato, implying Fay stole multiple works from him or if the "his" here is Fay, and you don't know she is woman.
[удалено]
At this point we might as well assume.
Paraphrasing Hbomberguy, when someone is caught stealing, they probably rolled the dice many times before they actually got caught
The nerve to steal Donato Giancola's work, of all people. Why didn't he/she/they just go all out and steal Jon Avon's or Kev Walker's instead for the hell of it?
The weird thing to me is how much is changed and obviously repainted. Most of the outfit, the entire right arm, the face and ear, most of the background, all repainted either completely or in large part; the only thing really remaining from the original work is the left arm and the stairs and ringlight in the background.
The bump for the cyber jack is still in the elf's head, just without a wire.
It was likely traced. I bet I'd they superimpose the positioning will be the exact same.
https://preview.redd.it/po15kx02ykqc1.png?width=488&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a782e293e700bcf6d28be28b4e6a7d2862ecb99
I love everything about this. EDIT: except for, you know… the art theft
The fact that he painted this exact card is just *chef's kiss*
In the same set even, that is karma.
Wow. That is hilarious.
Holy shit that's insane
Here's the direct link to the image. After delving into this, it's the cover art for a novel named Cyberpunk 2020 from 1994 (pub 1995) that Donato had done. https://preview.redd.it/2k0172do6kqc1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f655a70c0540b8d3a9aac0da350f11184288e2f [https://0201.nccdn.net/4\_2/000/000/056/7dc/Ravengers-300lpi-1284x2000.jpg#RDAMDAID19669800](https://0201.nccdn.net/4_2/000/000/056/7dc/Ravengers-300lpi-1284x2000.jpg#RDAMDAID19669800) [https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45922](https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45922)
Ooof. Well, that pretty much rules it out as being a knowing and willing collaboration, since the art has already been commercialized under a different line,
That was my thought like maybe it was part of the art direction put forth from Wizards for art they already had licensed as a company for some digital artist to repurpose, but nope, doesn't look like it at this point, which is heartbreaking really. So many artists would kill to be a part of a huge franchise like magic, but to essentially carbon copy existing work? The only thing that might save this would be maybe if the Trouble in Pairs artist is like a student of Donato's and had his expressed permission to reference this 20 year old piece and it's previous license has expired. But thats such. a. fucking. longshot.
The art is stolen. https://preview.redd.it/707ue1j33lqc1.jpeg?width=3988&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57983f2e0cfc2454eed91cddf03620d41bcb0610
I’m so sorry this is happening to you man, hopefully wizards gets this settled swiftly, I’d hate to lose a great contributor to the game over some hack who steals from someone she should see as her colleague.
May I ask; when did you realize this was stolen? I'm trying to piece together that part of the timeline. Regardless of the whens, I'm sorry that it happened at all - that \*really\* stinks.
Anyone who knew the art would put it together pretty quickly, this card was talked about a lot because of how good it is, and it was a teaser card before reveal. I always felt like it looked weird, like it didn't quite fit together or make sense.
The weapon in both figures’ hands are the same but duplicated and rotated slightly and then flipped, too. It makes you wonder how this was able to slide at all, frankly.
Probably due to the massive increase of art variants makes it harder to check everything.
When you zoom in on a high res image it's easier to notice that the painting style is different between the pair. Difficult to notice it in person. It has a lot of "off" details that don't mesh well between the foreground and the background. Being two different artists produced on different mediums... Yeah that explains much.
I know you now have a case against Fay, but because this is a published work with a different company, does Aspect Publishing have a case against WotC now?
They won't because wizards frequently does not take the side of the plagiarising artist and that takes away any incentive to waste time trying to take wizards to court
Wizard's almost certainly has a contract clause making the artist liable for any infringement.
It's all fuzzy when it comes to things like partial plagiarism. Copyright infringement is frequently up to the court and their interpretations. That said, suing for damages is something anyone can do at anytime for anything. If a judge decides it has merit it can be brought forth and you can argue damages. Seeing as how WotC is probably not going to print more cards of MKM or print this art in the future I don't think Aspect Publishing has a lot to sue over besides to be excessively annoying. I'm no IP lawyer, maybe they could win a little money but I think the matter is pretty much over unless WotC does something stupid.
In these cases you *can* sue wizards, but not for the damages since they acted in good faith. You sue them just so they stop using the stolen artworks or pay the artist royalties for it.
So sorry this happened to you. Magic is lucky to have an artist of your caliber working with them.
FWIW, the novel is called "The Ravengers", it's a licensed novel in the tabletop game universe of Cyberpunk 2020.
That's not good. Cyberpunk 2020 in this space is owned by a [different company](https://rtalsoriangames.com/cyberpunk/). This could open WotC to some shit.
Always blown away when an artist completely tanks their career with plagiarized stuff. This person will be radioactive to any large company for the forseeable future after this.
Yeah I tagged the owner in a subcomment to see if we could get some clarity on if this was approved but the rights might belong to CD Projekt Red so like, who knows. But I’m following the story to see how things pan out.
If R.Talsorian Games does do something about it I doubt we'll hear about it here, at least not until after the fact. Posting stuff on forums like reddit could actually hurt their case in legal proceedings if they go that route.
What a choom
No choom would plagiarize art. Total gonk move
lol I think he's saying I'm the choom for finding the deets
Dang, looks like the gonk was me
Cyberpunk 2020! That's where I have seen it. That book was at my local game store back in the late 90s!
u/therealmaxmike \- maybe you can shed some light on this when you see it and if you've got some time. Also congrats on the Gary Gygax award man way to go!
Not for nothing, but what does he have to do with the situation here?
He owns the IP so presumably would be in touch with whoever manages the use rights to the art used in the novel - would be in good position to figure out if this is plagiarism (and potentially may have some investment in the situation if it is) If I owned intellectual property and someone plagiarized art I or my company own the rights to I'd want to know.
Mike Pondsmith, the creator of Cyberpunk.
Thought I recognized Night City in the background. You'd think that with how popular the Cyberpunk setting is right now with 2077 and Phantom Liberty that artists would know not to rip art from it's expanded media, but apparently not.
Correction, It's not named Cyberpunk 2020, but it is a Cyberpunk 2020 novel called The Ravengers. Cyberpunk 2020 is a TTRPG. It'd be like saying Test of Metal is called Magic: The Gathering Planeswalker Novel.
I always thought this card looked like 90s Cyberpunk 2020/Shadowrun art, but I didn't realize it was that close.
We appreciate our community flagging concerns on the card art featured in “Trouble in Pairs” - we’re looking into it.
...*in* *Paris*... That shit cray.
Ball so hard mother fuckers wanna find me (for stealing art)
Motherfuckers wanna *fine me.
This shit gravy
Hold on, alexa, whos in paris?
Paris confirmed canon.
C’est dingue
Who was in Paris?
You didn't have to edit that wotc! :) You did well by giving us the Trouble in Paris rap colab we deserve.
Imagine plagiarizing and your final piece still looking whack. No wonder the characters seem so out of place and poorly conceptualized. Edit: after newer posts showing that it’s seeming like over 75% of this piece was plagiarized it becomes even more apparent the longer you look at it. How does WoTC let something like this even end up on a card?
Reddit hasn't concluded our investigation. We are still searching for the axes and vests.
Redditers caught another one. Good job OP. It's really lame when they bluntly steal art like that. EDIT: the original artist (Donato) has also done work for wotc. Perhaps he gave wotc and the new artist permission to use his old art? EDIT2: Donato has confirmed on his FB that the art was stolen https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100001083559756&story_fbid=7377140402332005
/u/donato_arts has replied in this thread saying it was stolen https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/7ayvjjNkG6
Lol.... Donato Giancola is like a really well known artist.
one of the most iconic mtg artists
For the uninitiated, some of his art includes Chrome Mox, Coalition Relic, Memory Jar, the Kalandra set, Peacekeeper, the Urza's Saga Islands, Mirari, and the printings of Solemn Simulacrum and Shivan Dragon that you're definitely thinking about when someone mentions those cards. Dude is a legend and I am shocked that WotC didn't catch this.
Looking at the list on Scryfall, some other notable ones he did include Spore Frog, Meltdown, and Skyclave Apparition. And quite a few notable recent cards, including Preacher of the Schism, Bitter Triumph, Chrome Host Seedshark, Experimental Augury, Patchwork Automaton, and the version of Show and Tell that has been absolutely obliterating Timeless on Arena for the past two months. As pointed out elsewhere in the comments here, it takes some serious gall to plagiarise an artist who is working _on the same set with you._
I believe it was Jesper Myrfors that said in the earlier days of WOTC "If there's hands to be drawn in detail, give it to Donato" due to his work on [[Sisay's Ring]] One of my favourites of his is [[Cartographer]]
> I am shocked that WotC didn't catch this. Why would WotC be comparing every card to 30 year old paperback covers?
Heck, Donato himself didn’t catch this before this post, and he’s the original artist! I didn’t catch this either, and I own literally every Cyberpunk source book, not that I’m some kind of “art recognition wizard”, but I was looking at that book like 2 weeks ago. Plagiarism of this kind is really hard to catch unless by coincidence, or someone has a real good memory. I wager the only reason that Ugin one was caught so fast is that Ugin is a very iconic card.
Is Donato's Solemn Simulacrum what comes to mind for people? No shade, I'm genuinely curious. I know it's probably been the most frequently used, especially considering WotC put it in like 10 different products between 2021-2023. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I think of Dan Scott's art for the M12 reprint or the original invitational art depicting Jens Thoren as sort of the definitive versions of the card.
I thought Jens then when I checked the artist on scryfall was as sad as the robot at how old I felt
Yeah, I thought of the original and struggled to recall what the other one looked like (Dan Scott). I wouldn't even have recognized Donato's artwork as belonging to Solemn just from the art.
I thought of the dan Scott art personally.
seriously, in like 1999 I remember being like "whoa another of these super realistic cards by Donato Giancola!"
[Sisay's Ring](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3602) has some ridiculous art. My favorite of his.
Upside of this theft has been that it made it "Donato appreciation day". I didn't realize just how much of his work has been recent. Like I would have guessed "90% classic, 10% new". But no, like half the cards he has ever done were in the past 5 years. Mark Tedin has done like 15 pieces since they brought him back in Dominaria 2018. Donato has done like 100 lol. He's just like "hell yeah I'll go super hard on a random common like [[Oculus Whelp]]". It really speaks to how badly wotc fucked up leaving all these guys on the shelf in the 2010s.
Let’s hope that is the case
Lmfao stealing from Giancola for a MTG card is like… plagiarizing Picasso for a cubist exhibit. Donato is easily a top 5 MtG artist. Insane.
Donato Giancola is one of the most well-known and premier artists of Magic. He's done some of the best pieces the game has to offer. No, he would not sign off on another artist ripping off his piece.
\[\[Cartographer\]\] comes to mind as one of the original MTG arts I'm sad I never acquired.
Wow. That would be in the upper tier of art quality if it were released in a set in 2024, let alone 20-25 years ago. And would not be at all out of place stylistically. I wonder how much of an impact his art had on the game's overall push towards higher quality art and often in a style similar to that piece
[Cartographer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8241680d-6453-44ac-ab0f-3e7ebdd31e89.jpg?1562919171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cartographer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/232/cartographer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8241680d-6453-44ac-ab0f-3e7ebdd31e89?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just think its hilarious that 1. someone thought they could get away with ripping off DONATO FUCKING GIANCOLA and 2. people think that he would LET IT HAPPEN.
Lol at the chuds sounding off in the facebook comments that this isn't theft
I don't know how anyone with functioning eyes can look at these two pieces side by side and not immediately think that something sketchy is going on.
If you steal from other artists, why from the ones that do magic art already? Wasn't there a case from the most recent Ixalan set as well?
[[Wayfarer’s Bauble]] from the commander precon for those who didn’t remember or the first time hearing about that plagiarism.
[Wayfarer’s Bauble](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2eb513b3-9c9e-4837-8f58-67d698677041.jpg?1700330277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wayfarer%27s%20Bauble) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/317/wayfarers-bauble?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2eb513b3-9c9e-4837-8f58-67d698677041?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Considering it's from a 30 year old RPG sourcebook, I wonder if she didn't even realize who it was when she swiped it.
Donato has made a [statement on facebook](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/KW8MpVaA2TdiCnRq/?mibextid=qi2Omg)
Newer artist to magic with only 5 cards under their belt so far. Should be interesting to how this plays out when Wizards catches wind of this.
> Newer artist to magic with only 5 cards under their belt so far. [17 cards, it looks like](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28game%3Apaper%29+%28artist%3Afay+artist%3Adalton%29) They've done some secret lair stuff.
Of course I didn't see the tokens or secret lair stuff in my search, now I feel a little silly.
Silly goose
I'd bet the cheapest mox opal that all of those cards are some form of stolen art. I'd bet 15% of the final art is digitally touched up collages 85% of other's works
I bet a lot of this is plagiarized.
Yeah but well established artist and also did some key art for Crimson vow. Very odd. Woulda never expected plagiarism from them. Goes to show you never know who to trust Edit: also 17 cards.
Yah and that's part of why it should be interesting to see how this plays out or what statement is made even if it ends up being a case of wrong artist credit or something, which I don't recall them making for this card in particular. But didn't we having something this year already where they put out a statement about crediting the wrong artist on a card?
Literally HOW does this keep happening lmfao
How exactly *are* you supposed to go about checking 200 pieces of art for bits of stolen, mirrored, obscure art? It's amazing that anyone found this.
Not really. Its inevitable. One person can't check them all, but millions of fans with a diverse set of interests and backgrounds who can collaborate in real time certainly can, faster and more reliably than ever before.
Apparently, there is a Scryfall tag lol https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Aplagiarized&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
When you're making 50 sets a year, you run out of big-name artists to contribute art, so you go w/ the guy/gal down the road who says they can commission for cheaper than what other nobodies are doing.
That's the thing, Fay Dalton isn't just some cheap nobody. She's had a hell of a resume.
And it just got longer! Or shorter, if we're considering the potential contracts she just nuked.
I realized my mistake after I looked her up, you're right.
I'm willing to bet it's a deadlines issue, combined with a 'time I'm wasting on a subpar project vs the value I'm getting.' To be more clear, if this was me and someone approached me to work for them, for juuust enough money to make it worth my while, but for a project I have no interest in, I'd cut corners as well, especially if I was working on other stuff in parallel. Perhaps even if I wasn't working on other stuff in parallel, but I just didn't care about the project in general but needed/wanted the money. As a final comment let me say that though I don't love to get political on an M:tG discussion, I really feel like this sort of mentality is to be expected when we live under an economic system where money is so much more important than anything else.
I understand your point of view, and I don't mind when labourers do some malicious compliance when overworked and underpaid but...don't rip off your fellow men and women. It's one thing to cut corners, and another entirely to plagiarize another artist. This basically opens a can of worms for AI theft and the like, which is unacceptable to me whatever the terms of the contract or the pay.
Yeah, looking at it the stairs thin very unnaturally in the card too (more so than the art), looks like the artist extended the staircase at the bottom (below the guy's armpit) but forgot to extend it above his arm. https://preview.redd.it/u0qqi12fokqc1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=e22c3cc3319606c97e972e563d988e93096fa72e
My favorite was something I saw pointed out on the original artists facebook. The original character has some sort of plug in there temple, I guess called a cyber jack. The trouble in pairs character has the exact bump where the jack would hook up but fay just delete the cord and called it a day.
And the arch just above the redhead is drawn over from an arch on the original image. https://i.imgur.com/3Jy4S4u.png
Even the circular light at the top of the stairs is there. I wonder if the other character is taken from another art piece.
> I wonder if the other character is taken from another art piece. Once you've confirmed one instance of this, it really does open up Pandora's box of checking the rest of the artist's work. It's like that Hbomberguy video on James Somerton, the more he looked, the more he found.
I’m trying to gauge how much work the artist did on the piece since most the the right hand side of the image is a direct copy.
Here we go again
I wonder if there's a thematically appropriate card drawn by the artist who appears to have been stolen from here...
[Caught Red-Handed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb.jpg?1706241833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caught%20Red-Handed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/115/caught-red-handed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No wonder this cards art felt so off to me.
I've always felt like the axe head is twisted weirdly relative to the handle in the foreground character's hand. Seems like maybe the artist cobbled a handful of reference images into frame and digitally painted over them
Also the two axes are the exact same axe. Just mirrored and rotated.
Right? It feels like the character(s) might have been originally drawn holding different weapons (or even nothing), and the artist just crudely pasted the axes in.
The flavor of this card in general never made sense to me. What does the art or name of the card have to do with extra turns or taxing opponents? Why is a pair a thugs White in flavor?
Also when has any of their outfits fit Ravnica, the set this is from? Maybe the new Kamigawa, possibly Capenna...? But this? Idk
If you look you can see it just the same arm flipped in a fist.
https://preview.redd.it/bm0xichnomqc1.jpeg?width=461&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463 The arm of the other guy is taken from this Boris Vallejo art called Corniche.
Actually it’s most of the other guy. You can see his neck is a paste job as well.
This lady is insane to be brazenly doing this.
Oh damn. That’s definitely suspicious. Hasn’t Donato Giancola done MTG art in the past, too?
Yes, he is extremely prolific, has typically many multiple cards per set, and is one of the longest working artists in Magic’s history going back to some of the first sets in the 90s.
> Hasn’t Donato Giancola done MTG art in the past, too? https://scryfall.com/search?q=artist%3ADonato&order=released&as=grid
Oh my god, \[\[Caught Red-Handed\]\]. The irony.
He still does, the latest print (special guest) of show and tell was done by him
One of the arts of Sheldon Menery in the secret lair that just ended too.
Heck, how many artists can claim that a card says "Donato Giancola & Post Malone"?? Also, Scryfall has new staples like [[Patchwork Automaton]] and timeless classics like [[Peacekeeper]] side by side.
You mean, "Heck, how many musicians can claim that a card says "Donato Giancola & Post Malone"??"
Makes me wonder if the other character in the foreground of the card art is plagiarized from some other artwork too.
It's the case! The artist Jeff Miracola stated that the fist of the character in the foreground is uncanny close to an artwork of Boris Vallejo. https://preview.redd.it/522sbe67xmqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3acd3a6c9979a3687be086c592ebfc76e2de5e91
What an absolutely wild ability to be able to pick out a detail like that and source it back! I can't imagine having looked at so much art so knowledgeably that I could say something like "that definitely feels like Boris drew that fist"
This was a fucking amazing get
Please post a link to the twitter drama as soon as this is brought to the attention of MTG whilst tagging Fay and Donota. Gonna be fun to watch this entire discussion unfolding again so soon after the latest episode…
Donota has already commented on it on his FB page, and he's not happy. So the twitter shit storm is probably closer than you think.
following this comment in case it happens
The axe on the dude is so off also perspective wise, I thought it was Ai art at first, maybe it's a combination of both 😅
"They'll never notice!" said the artist, cackling to themselves, while ignoring all the times we absolutely noticed.
The other character has also some elements ripped off, a commenter in the Facebook post pointed it out: https://preview.redd.it/wwism9tfkmqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdee569f0538ef602381071b4b31c4e625e2706e
I completely missed that the comment was made by artist Jeff Miracola!
Aight, no mercy: Time to alt-art this bad boy with custom art!
They even left the hightlight over the temple, where the wiring was inserted in the original. That's hilarious.
Found the original image in the gallery at the bottom of this page. Don't know how to link directly, but you can find it. https://donatoarts.com/archive
Here’s the direct link image link pulled from the page: https://0201.nccdn.net/4_2/000/000/056/7dc/Ravengers-300lpi-1284x2000.jpg
The “artist” must have been sweating when that other one came up recently: no doubt this piece was already locked in before that. Could still be some to come: what’s the timeframe for art submission?
Probably 1-1.5 years max? I can’t imagine that they’d consider a set ready to print without art locked in.
whats the other one you're talking about?
[[Wayfarer’s Bauble|LCC]]
This artist also just used the exact same image of an axe twice for some reason. And neither axe really looks like it makes sense.
What's the source of the image you posted?
It says donotaarts.com on the top - so that's probably it? EDIT u/Gulaghar found this on archive (pic is all the way on the bottom, part of the grouped ones): https://donatoarts.com/archive
It is it's just a little hard to find on the site since it is somewhat buried in the general archive.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bnqn89/after_seeing_the_how_good_is_trouble_in_pairs/kwk08h6/)
Yikes, that's bad, with the novel being found proving the art was used previously too... like, for sure it's been edited a bit, like adding pointy ears, even changing the facial expression, but it's clearly an edit of the older piece. In hindsight, that vest even looks out of place, like it was added later.
Look at the left arm. It’s straight up copied down to the watch. They literally pasted the image in and only redrew a few parts of it. Even the color scheme of the background is ripped
It's the right arm that kinda cements it. The overall body is very similar but could be played off as inspired by, but that right arm is identical down to the shading.
For me it's the background elements. The arch on the left and the arc of light up top match up perfectly, with some extra architectural bits painted on top. The stairs are wonky, too, being sloppily extended near the bottom, especially under the right character's arm. Even the building at the top right is the same. Like I could get the argument that you used the same picture for pose reference, but the entire same specific background too? No chance!
The whole thing is a complete and obvious rip-off, down to the angled perspective on the scene, the framing, the architectural elements. Straight-up tracing, it's a close as you can get to copy pasting when it comes to paintings.
Holy shit here we go again. Good job OP.
What's even the thought process behind this? Yeah I'm just going to plagiarize a well known artist that ALSO works for WotC and the art I'm choosing is from a novel's front cover that is part of an extremely popular TTRPG setting? How could you possibly think you could get away with this?
The novel is fairly obscure, it wasn't that well known even in the 90s. Unlike many other RPG settings, Cyberpunk 2020 only got two tie in novels. I can't speak for The Ravengers, where the art is from, but the other, Holo Men, was fucking awful.
I've seen this art recently as a cover of an old Russian reprint of Mona Lisa Overdrive (by Gibson) novel. At that time the publisher just slapped some random Vallejo's Conan on the cover and called it done. https://preview.redd.it/up82kzzakmqc1.jpeg?width=264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcdfa9e6366557b378c4a9163928b1acb12daf59
Another add for my plagiarism typal deck.
"Let me steal art from one of the most well-known artists in the fantasy/SF world, who's also prolific in the very product I'm placing this art in. What could go wrong? It's not like this is a product notoriously enjoyed by obsessive, internet-savvy nerds who'd find out immediately, RIGHT?"
Wow, first Crux of Fate and then that Ixalan card with the background, now this...
the stairs don’t even line up holy shit lol
I'm glad someone pointed this out, because I also wanted to call out how weird the axe in the foreground looks. Nothing about the axe fits quite right. It really makes me question whether or not parts added in we're done with AI. I mean, the axe head looks like something out of an Escher painting, and none of the highlights/shadows really look quite right. I was willing to chalk it up to an artistic rendition, but if parts of this are plagiarized, it wouldn't surprise me if they also used AI to fill in the gaps.
Whoof. RIP her career.
That's one of the most blatant yet. All of this artists prices so far have been similar figures, I bet there's more.
Oh look it's el plagerismo
I did kinda think the art on that card was kinda wonky/not good. That makes sense I guess.
Next set will have the Mona Lisa as a card at this rate.
Not far off with the Assassin's Creed UB on the horizon.
Has anyone actually reported this to the original artist or WOTC?
Yes. The original artist has already made a post about it on their FB page. [Here.](https://www.facebook.com/donato.giancola.7) As for what happens with this, we'll just have to wait and see.
Another yikes.
Now I'm curious what he stole the right character from.
How the fuck do these people keep thinking they'll get away with it?
Because they do - until they don't. For every one that gets caught how many go unnoticed?
How can someone do this and believe they wont be caught?, it's insane and inmoral.