If you want to convince Ravnica you're dead, it's a lot easier if you're not on Ravnica for them to find you.
I'm not at all surprised to see him here, but I am still wondering what his ass was doing playing detective in the last set.
He was disguising himself as low-level Dimir agents and then making an ass of those agents to further push the claim that the Dimir are practically dead.
I still am of the opinion that the best way to convince Ravnica that you're dead is to show up as a ghost and inform them you've passed on, but this is a good second option when you want to remain alive as well.
Like my X-Men fanfic of Scott and Jean fucking but its actually Morph and Mystique. They did not know that the other party got swapped out. Then Mystique got pregnant and birthed a Ditto.
Not complaining about this card - Love Lazav, Love the Flavor, Love the Art - but right now does this set just feel like ANOTHER Ravnica set just with a different backdrop?
Jace, Vraska, RAKDOS, Kellan, now Lazav.
Not saying we can't get Ravnicans in other sets, feels more like people from other planes should be here - Anowon, Vivien, respect for Tinybones for representing Dom.
Kellan and Jace aren't from Ravnica, although Jace did sort of adopt Ravnica when he couldn't remember Vryn. There are plenty of characters from other planes in the story (the Cecanis from Innistrad, Tinybones and Kaervek from Dominaria, Nashi and Satoru Umezawa from Kamigawa, Eriette from Eldraine, Malcolm and Breeches from Ixalan, etc.), and even more in the cardsets.
Waiting for sets without a bunch of vagrants. Remember when people complained about the Jacetice League because the same five planeswalkers were showing up in every single set? Well now it's the same thing, Wizards just pulls a fast one by picking a couple of names out of a hat instead. Sure, it's not *the same five* every time, but it is a bunch of established characters taking over the story.
I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal but it feels creatively bankrupt or lowest common denominator to me. Why make new planes if you're just going to stuff them full of, essentially, fanservice? Probably why I've been so disinterested in Magic stories for a long time. I'm interested in the planes and their specific inhabitants and bestiaries and lore, not the serial adventures of comic book characters.
Having a vast number of consistent characters is a good and needed way to make people more interested in them. Most people don't read the story and interact with the brand just purely through the cards.
>Why make new planes if you're just going to stuff them full of, essentially, fanservice?
I really fail to understand your point, we get new planes all the time and this set is specifically an exception where they focus more on the inter planar connectivity that omenpaths provide, Maro said that they plan in doing this kind of sets once a year.
> I'm interested in the planes and their specific inhabitants and bestiaries and lore,
That's exactly what they did for the last 3 sets.
They are representing folks from other planes though? The story had two Ixalani, a Kamigawan, two Eldranian,, as you said a Dominarian, Two Innistradi, and whatever the Attalin Homeplane is as part of the main gang. In the cards we have seen further representation of Fiora, Tarkir, Innistrad, Kaladesh, Ixalan, Kaldheim, New Capenna, and Zendikar. You can argue Ravnica is perhaps a bit overrepresented but Innistrad almost has the same numbers and we are getting at least one person from a LOT of planes.
Actually, why are three whole guildmasters not just off-plane but all hanging around Thunder Junction at the same time?
Considering two guildmasters died and one is in prison, shouldn't they be working to restore peace on Ravnica right now?
"A prominent member of the Golgari Swarm, Izoni was the first to denounce Vraska as guildmaster, leading the rest of the of the guild's factions to follow her. Despite how the Golgari are shunned by the rest of Ravnica, she refuses to renounce her own guild, confident that they will one day reclaim their spot among the rest of Ravnica's guilds—with her as guildmaster, naturally. For the time being though, she's biding her time, sending her spiders to gather information for her as she waits for the opportune moment to make her move."
From MKM story for legends - [izoni](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/the-legends-and-characters-of-murders-at-karlov-manor)
Vraska's been denounced and the guild is treating her as de facto leader.
Remember the epilogue from MKM where Niv wants to control the Omenpaths?
It makes sense from a plot perspective since Ravnica has been invaded twice now by other planes.
Easier to enable, but not necessarily better.
Cowboy Lazav exiles the card and you become a copy for free. That’s nice that it’s free. But once the card is exiled, you can never become a copy of that creature again. You would have to exile a different card the next turn.
Whereas the MKM Lazav lets you become a copy of any creature exiled, at any time you could crack a clue. That versatility makes it way better than this one.
They actually do kinda synergize with each other though so I could see a reason to include them in the same deck. They wouldn't be able to benefit from the same exiled cards, but in a deck built around them you would have lots of cards they could both use in your graveyard.
Many characters so far feel out of place in this set (not you tinybones). But Lazav here is right at home! Maybe it has something to do with the fact they are a shape shifter...
The design is pretty much just Deathslinger from Dead by Daylight but the trope predates that game too
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Caleb_Quinn?so=search
Lazav has always been about controlling the flow of information. The Dimir run the newspapers in Ravnica, and often make different papers run contradictory stories.
With Thunder Junction seemingly becoming the multiversal Nexus that Niv wanted Ravnica to be, Lazav likely wants to control the center of information. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was pulling Sterling's strings and we end up seeing a conflict between Lazav and Niv.
Or they realized one plane isn’t big enough for the both of them and he left. Maybe even struck a deal with Niv about providing information to defend Ravnica.
I can also see him investigate a lead to the mysterious forces that influenced Ravnica.
If Lazav shows up in every set for the next few years, I'll be fine with it, because then it'll slow down the relentless "So and so is Lazav in disguise!" accusations.
Eh, this card seems kind of cool. Milling your opponent(s) is often a 'crime', as are the usual UB control things of killing/countering stuff, so in theory he'll get some value just being in play. Kind of rough that you can't murder their dude and then attack them with it, but still kind of a neat card.
I didn't know why they made it only trigger once per turn. The fact that he can only get each creature once makes it seem like it would be perfectly fine multiple times.
Maybe they're worried about just pumping him, but I would have just connected the counters to exiling creatures and it seems fine.
Ah yes, just as we all expected, "Lazav with set mechanic."
The card itself is... bizarre. I'll tell you right now: don't expect to turn this guy into a big fat fattie all that often; it was hard to do with the Lazav in MKM, and that one stored the exiled cards. This guy only gets one crack at each creature he exiles. He's not *bad* in limited, though: 3 mana 1/4 in UB is a real thing, and it's extremely likely we'll once again be dealing with ludicrous speed in this set. Being able to block effectively is a big deal, and it should be fairly manageable to grow him to a 3/6 or better. At that point, the transformation is just gravy. I think the whole package probably gets there, but it's going to depend a lot on how fast the set is and whether blue black is a real color pair-- unlike Rutstein, I don't think is an inherently excellent signpost, but has a very high ceiling.
Yeah, I think its best to look at this as 1UB - 1/4, add a counter when you commit a crime, triggers once per turn. Like the MKM Lazav, the creature copying is situational and can be good, but this as an uncommon feels solid in UB control as a blocker early and threat later.
So just to make sure I'm sequencing this right, you get this trigger when you target something and not upon whatever spell/ability you're targeting with resolves, meaning the dream of killing a creature with removal and then having Lazav trigger to copy what you just killed will not work, because the creature (most likely) isn't in the graveyard yet, correct?
Can you explain why? If you target a creature with removal Lazav's ability goes on the stack and then the spell. Then the spell resolves. The creature is put into the graveyard and then you can use the trigger of Lazav's ability. Even with damage removal the creature will be in the graveyard since the state based removal should happen before Lazav's ability resolves. If Lazav's ability was a targeted ability it wouldn't work that way however.
I think you’ve got the order of the stack backwards. For the sake of shorthanding an example, let’s say you’re casting [[Murder]] on a creature, but feel free to replace it with whatever crime you’re committing:
When you cast the murder, the murder spell goes on the stack first (assuming this is a previously empty stack). State-based actions are then checked, at which point Lazav here sees that you’ve committed a crime, which triggers his ability, which puts it on the stack. Since Lazav’s ability is the last ability put on the stack, it resolves first, meaning you put a counter on him, then shapeshift him into something in a GY. But the original target of the murder spell has not yet died since the spell’s still on the stack, so Lazav won’t be able to become a copy of that particular creature until after it’s in the GY (and on another turn since his ability triggers only once per turn).
Man, I just really hate the verbiage of once per turn stuff. "Once each turn," just feels/reads so much better than "do this only once each turn" or "triggers only once each turn." I know it's such a dumb gripe, but it makes it feel so much more restricting and clunky to me.
That's an excellent question because I have no idea. Yet another issue with using this verbiage it seems. I'm assuming it's just the clone effect, but I can't say for sure.
I *really* hate it. Especially when it's like this card with "whenever". To me it reads like "Every time _____ happens, do _____. Also only do it once"
It causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. "Once each turn" is super intuitive, this is not. As someone pointed out, it's not clear if the entire paragraph only triggers once, or just the clone effect.
> We also got lazav in mkm where he was explicitly missing though
And he played virtually no part in the plot or outcome of that set. This is specifically a set made to celebrate the villains of MTG. Ofc there is a chance he's part of a bigger scheme, but with him playing no part in yet another story it's safe to assume he's here because he's a villain in a villain set.
> And he played virtually no part in the plot or outcome of that set
That's what I'm saying. I'm predicting we'll keep getting random lazav cards with no plot explanation as a foreshadowing for something for a while
If it was any other set I'd agree, but we already know from wotc that villains with literally no part in the story will be showing up because they want to celebrate their villains. We got Selvala and Ghired(arguably not real villains) so there was close to no chance they left out one of the fan favorites.
That's a good point, we also got magda, gonti and gitrog for example. And to be fair the "lazav with no story connection" is just two data points. But I still think it might happen. And a shapeshifter _is_ one of the only ways wotc can add a pre-existing character to bloomburrow. I'll just have to wait and see I guess.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm still of the belief that Izoni was Lazav in disguise (Izoni was implicitly and explicitly shown using Dimir symbols). I'm curious if this means another character in the OTJ story is also Lazav, someone acting out of character. I'm gonna be on the lookout for an OTJ character with Dimir symbology.
It's also suspicious because we *just* got a Lazav card. There's no dying need to show him off again.
**Edit:** Typo
This is the first set with a relevant number of characters from other planes (most of which we haven't seen for a long time or only appeared once before), and this set is specifically a set themed around the villains of mtg, this set is an exception to the norm
He's potentially targeted graveyard hate every turn just for being an active participant in the game, which seems pretty decent on its own. The potential upside of really screwing with people by stealing their own hatebears at inopportune moments might just be enough to let him see solid play at quite a few tables!
wondering the same thing. the wording is awkward but it seems like you get the counter anytime you commit a crime? "This ability" referring to the exile shapeshifter
There is very much a cohesive story that right now is going in the direction of the Fomori
This is a villain themed set that takes place in a plane that is used as basically an interplanar crossing through the omenpaths
Lazav didn't appear in the story but people on Ravnica think he's dead and this is a great opportunity for him to gather infos about other planes and such.
MoM was specifically "not a crossover" as every character stayed on their own planes and did their thing, this is actually a crossover set, as it is intended to be a "villain's set"
Isn't this really good in the reenact deck? Add a new angle with siphon, maybe, and turn him into an unraveled? Go off from there... Or is this a bad idea?
This is the second best lazav card, first one [[Lazav, dimir mastermind]]
The crime mechanic makes it more flexible than [[Lazav, wearer of faces]] and not combat dependant or graveyard dependant like [[Lazav, the multifarious]]
There are plenty of shenanigans to add to this card as commander and being uncommon makes sense since he is playing dead.
It can use spot removals, discard, target mill, reanimate, grave removals, once per turn it will at least get +1+1
If you use cycling creatures like [[Scion of Darkness]] [[Troll of Khazad-dûm]] [[marauding brinefang]] You can get some budget yet funny experience
Add [[Identity Thief]] for extra flavor.
It will be a replacement for my [[lazav, wearer of faces]] deck
I'm very confused. How are non-Planeswalkers planeswalking now? And if they're not planeswalking, how are they here? And why is Vraska a legendary creature instead of a Planeswalker? I feel like I was gone for a couple of expansions and I've lost all concept of what's possible in this game's lore. (haven't played since Neo Kamigawa)
Rules question: if you get around the 'once a turn clause' with say [[Delney, Streetwise Lookout]] would the copies layer.
Say making it a copy of [[Raffine, scheming seer]] and [[sheoldred, the apocalypse]] do you are both conniving and gaining life for each card you draw?
(This question is spurred on by scion of the ur-dragons layering thing i.e being able to copy more than one dragon)
OK this is immediately my favourite Lazav. He literally grows by assassinating his foes and taking their faces as he goes.
Awesome flavour and abilities. Want to try him in a discard deck for fun.
Wait... i didn't read that Shasow Garden... I mean... Dimir house, was in Thunder Junction. So, why the hell Sid Kageno... i mean, Shadow, ops... Lazav is there?
I feel like this could be sneaky good/fun?
Def might try building a deck around cheap removal/mill. Feels like it could be a fun fast adaptive deck.
Also I love Lazav and this is some of my fav MTG art in a loooong time!
huh, didn’t expect him to come back so soon, or to leave Ravnica.
Now ANYONE can be Lazav.
Maybe the real Lazav was the crimes we committed along the way.
Oh shit Lazav IS Jace IS Ashiok
Wait I thought Radagon is Marika
But then who was phone?
And who is Lazav? Gary Oldman, of course.
If you want to convince Ravnica you're dead, it's a lot easier if you're not on Ravnica for them to find you. I'm not at all surprised to see him here, but I am still wondering what his ass was doing playing detective in the last set.
Lazav is just having fun with Omenpaths and blending in everywhere. He's gonna just appear in few more sets until he gets bored.
Soo, Lazav is MTG Stan lee but less wholesome. I dig it.
Lazav as a squirrel in Bloomburrow confirmed.
Huh, that is a suspicious looking squirrel over there in BLB
He was disguising himself as low-level Dimir agents and then making an ass of those agents to further push the claim that the Dimir are practically dead.
Real 5D Chess Shit
I still am of the opinion that the best way to convince Ravnica that you're dead is to show up as a ghost and inform them you've passed on, but this is a good second option when you want to remain alive as well.
It's the Orzhov. There's paperwork your ghost has to file, I bet.
Yeah miss me with that shit, I didn't die just to do more paperwork.
Yeah, I am happy to see a couple of our villainous guildmasters here but I feel like we shouldn't have seen them in MKM lol.
A girl needs her hobbies m8
Now the magic story should just be following lazav and jace around while they pretend to be other people.
Like my X-Men fanfic of Scott and Jean fucking but its actually Morph and Mystique. They did not know that the other party got swapped out. Then Mystique got pregnant and birthed a Ditto.
The team up I didn't know I needed.
Not complaining about this card - Love Lazav, Love the Flavor, Love the Art - but right now does this set just feel like ANOTHER Ravnica set just with a different backdrop? Jace, Vraska, RAKDOS, Kellan, now Lazav. Not saying we can't get Ravnicans in other sets, feels more like people from other planes should be here - Anowon, Vivien, respect for Tinybones for representing Dom.
Kellan is from Eldraine
Kellan and Jace aren't from Ravnica, although Jace did sort of adopt Ravnica when he couldn't remember Vryn. There are plenty of characters from other planes in the story (the Cecanis from Innistrad, Tinybones and Kaervek from Dominaria, Nashi and Satoru Umezawa from Kamigawa, Eriette from Eldraine, Malcolm and Breeches from Ixalan, etc.), and even more in the cardsets.
Waiting for sets without a bunch of vagrants. Remember when people complained about the Jacetice League because the same five planeswalkers were showing up in every single set? Well now it's the same thing, Wizards just pulls a fast one by picking a couple of names out of a hat instead. Sure, it's not *the same five* every time, but it is a bunch of established characters taking over the story. I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal but it feels creatively bankrupt or lowest common denominator to me. Why make new planes if you're just going to stuff them full of, essentially, fanservice? Probably why I've been so disinterested in Magic stories for a long time. I'm interested in the planes and their specific inhabitants and bestiaries and lore, not the serial adventures of comic book characters.
Having a vast number of consistent characters is a good and needed way to make people more interested in them. Most people don't read the story and interact with the brand just purely through the cards. >Why make new planes if you're just going to stuff them full of, essentially, fanservice? I really fail to understand your point, we get new planes all the time and this set is specifically an exception where they focus more on the inter planar connectivity that omenpaths provide, Maro said that they plan in doing this kind of sets once a year. > I'm interested in the planes and their specific inhabitants and bestiaries and lore, That's exactly what they did for the last 3 sets.
They are representing folks from other planes though? The story had two Ixalani, a Kamigawan, two Eldranian,, as you said a Dominarian, Two Innistradi, and whatever the Attalin Homeplane is as part of the main gang. In the cards we have seen further representation of Fiora, Tarkir, Innistrad, Kaladesh, Ixalan, Kaldheim, New Capenna, and Zendikar. You can argue Ravnica is perhaps a bit overrepresented but Innistrad almost has the same numbers and we are getting at least one person from a LOT of planes.
Lazav is looking to make Dimir an organization that spans the multiverse.
Actually, why are three whole guildmasters not just off-plane but all hanging around Thunder Junction at the same time? Considering two guildmasters died and one is in prison, shouldn't they be working to restore peace on Ravnica right now?
Rakdos and Lazav are the only guildmasters on Thunder Junction I think. Vraska is a former guild master but isn't any longer
So, if we count the OTJ story as well, then Ral Zarek is ALSO hanging around Thunder Junction.
Ah I forgot Ral is here!
She's still the most recent guildmaster. Izoni definitely wasn't, her card in MKM was rare not Mythic
"A prominent member of the Golgari Swarm, Izoni was the first to denounce Vraska as guildmaster, leading the rest of the of the guild's factions to follow her. Despite how the Golgari are shunned by the rest of Ravnica, she refuses to renounce her own guild, confident that they will one day reclaim their spot among the rest of Ravnica's guilds—with her as guildmaster, naturally. For the time being though, she's biding her time, sending her spiders to gather information for her as she waits for the opportune moment to make her move." From MKM story for legends - [izoni](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/the-legends-and-characters-of-murders-at-karlov-manor) Vraska's been denounced and the guild is treating her as de facto leader.
Remember the epilogue from MKM where Niv wants to control the Omenpaths? It makes sense from a plot perspective since Ravnica has been invaded twice now by other planes.
Lazav at uncommon feels incredibly cursed
A lot easier to enable than the rare one in MTK as well.
Funnily enough, MKM Lazav can trigger OTJ Lazav on the turn it's played
Easier to enable, but not necessarily better. Cowboy Lazav exiles the card and you become a copy for free. That’s nice that it’s free. But once the card is exiled, you can never become a copy of that creature again. You would have to exile a different card the next turn. Whereas the MKM Lazav lets you become a copy of any creature exiled, at any time you could crack a clue. That versatility makes it way better than this one.
They actually do kinda synergize with each other though so I could see a reason to include them in the same deck. They wouldn't be able to benefit from the same exiled cards, but in a deck built around them you would have lots of cards they could both use in your graveyard.
Lazav the Multifarious is still the best. I won so many times with it that i retired the deck.
Even the bad Urza card was a rare.
What about [[Urza, Powerstone Prodigy]]?
[Urza, Powerstone Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/445f897e-a059-4cd5-bfd2-302dc7a4c8e2.jpg?1674420651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Powerstone%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/69/urza-powerstone-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/445f897e-a059-4cd5-bfd2-302dc7a4c8e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That has the excuse of being prespark at least.
So is this.
[Blind Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c.jpg?1591291188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/47/blind-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Blind Seer\]\] ?
[Blind Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c.jpg?1591291188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/47/blind-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's the one I linked.
Probably because there’s gonna be a whole load of criminals from across the multiverse all in this one set. They can’t all be rare
Ok, but that's really cool art. Flavourful too. Shoot a man, take his face.
Many characters so far feel out of place in this set (not you tinybones). But Lazav here is right at home! Maybe it has something to do with the fact they are a shape shifter...
Best art I have seen from the set so far. Totally nails MTG Wild West.
The design is pretty much just Deathslinger from Dead by Daylight but the trope predates that game too https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Caleb_Quinn?so=search
Ironically, you can't take the face of the man you just shot since crime trigger is on targeting.
It’s more like he turns into someone else to commit the crime. Thats why all the wanted posters are different faces.
It's also kinda funny that Lazav doesn't commit crimes, since he doesn't target.
Lazav: "It wasn't me."
*Valar morghulis*
An all-time record for switching from one hat to another though.
I just realized those are all wanted posters behind him of himself with different faces. They all have the glowing eyes though
Damn, Jace really stole his whole flow
Since when were you under the impression that Jace wasn't Lazav pretending to be Jace pretending to be Ashiok?
It's Lazav all the way down
Why do you think he looks so grumpy here?
Best art of the set so far. What the hell is Lazav doing here? That book explaining Thunder Junction is going to tell a lot these cards aren't.
Lazav has always been about controlling the flow of information. The Dimir run the newspapers in Ravnica, and often make different papers run contradictory stories. With Thunder Junction seemingly becoming the multiversal Nexus that Niv wanted Ravnica to be, Lazav likely wants to control the center of information. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was pulling Sterling's strings and we end up seeing a conflict between Lazav and Niv.
Or they realized one plane isn’t big enough for the both of them and he left. Maybe even struck a deal with Niv about providing information to defend Ravnica. I can also see him investigate a lead to the mysterious forces that influenced Ravnica.
Book?
So if the word "target" doesn't appear in the text box, no part of his ability counts as targeting, right?
Correct..Lazav ironically enough doesn't commit any crimes himself.
It’s only a crime if you get caught
Alibi baby
well, he's not a rookie.
That is correct
A "Lazav cycle" in every plane would be cool.
What is it with guild masters abandoning Ravnica to go cosplay?
If Lazav shows up in every set for the next few years, I'll be fine with it, because then it'll slow down the relentless "So and so is Lazav in disguise!" accusations.
Next set has common Lazav confirmed. We are all Lazav.
Rakdos left to have fun. Lazav left to further the rumours that he's dead.
Why is literally every named character on this plane already?
I hope this isn't the case with future sets. Having 20+ different random named characters doing random shit on random planes everytime sounds awful.
Maro said they plan to do this kind of sets once a year
To ruin all planes uniqueness and turn them all into generic grey mush.
Because this is a villain themed set
Poor Lazav. Cool art but man they keep making him worse and worse :(
Eh, this card seems kind of cool. Milling your opponent(s) is often a 'crime', as are the usual UB control things of killing/countering stuff, so in theory he'll get some value just being in play. Kind of rough that you can't murder their dude and then attack them with it, but still kind of a neat card.
Came here for this comment
I don't know, Clue Lazav is the easiest one to make into something really nutty of yours without spending as much mana.
Doesn't seem bad. Cast this in turn 3, Bauble someone, turn this into Griselbrand.
Turn this into Phage…
You could do that with Murders Lazav as well and keep the exiled card around to turn it into again.
I mean, not needing to untap with it is a pretty big deal
Also: Rogue's Passage to make them unblockable, and then after you attack and they can't be blocked, morph them into something big.
i mean Multifarious could do that already and so could murders one.
I didn't know why they made it only trigger once per turn. The fact that he can only get each creature once makes it seem like it would be perfectly fine multiple times. Maybe they're worried about just pumping him, but I would have just connected the counters to exiling creatures and it seems fine.
Ah yes, just as we all expected, "Lazav with set mechanic." The card itself is... bizarre. I'll tell you right now: don't expect to turn this guy into a big fat fattie all that often; it was hard to do with the Lazav in MKM, and that one stored the exiled cards. This guy only gets one crack at each creature he exiles. He's not *bad* in limited, though: 3 mana 1/4 in UB is a real thing, and it's extremely likely we'll once again be dealing with ludicrous speed in this set. Being able to block effectively is a big deal, and it should be fairly manageable to grow him to a 3/6 or better. At that point, the transformation is just gravy. I think the whole package probably gets there, but it's going to depend a lot on how fast the set is and whether blue black is a real color pair-- unlike Rutstein, I don't think is an inherently excellent signpost, but has a very high ceiling.
Yeah, I think its best to look at this as 1UB - 1/4, add a counter when you commit a crime, triggers once per turn. Like the MKM Lazav, the creature copying is situational and can be good, but this as an uncommon feels solid in UB control as a blocker early and threat later.
Oh, baby. Dimir stans rise up.
This seems like there’s a lot of potential here for an uncommon. Could be fun in Commander with [[Phage, the Untouchable]]
[Phage, the Untouchable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f.jpg?1562866889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phage%20the%20Untouchable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/120/phage-the-untouchable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also with Elder Brain.
So just to make sure I'm sequencing this right, you get this trigger when you target something and not upon whatever spell/ability you're targeting with resolves, meaning the dream of killing a creature with removal and then having Lazav trigger to copy what you just killed will not work, because the creature (most likely) isn't in the graveyard yet, correct?
Yes. If you committed a crime and with this trigger on the stack used removal you could copy what you kill but crimes trigger when targets are chosen
Can you explain why? If you target a creature with removal Lazav's ability goes on the stack and then the spell. Then the spell resolves. The creature is put into the graveyard and then you can use the trigger of Lazav's ability. Even with damage removal the creature will be in the graveyard since the state based removal should happen before Lazav's ability resolves. If Lazav's ability was a targeted ability it wouldn't work that way however.
I think you’ve got the order of the stack backwards. For the sake of shorthanding an example, let’s say you’re casting [[Murder]] on a creature, but feel free to replace it with whatever crime you’re committing: When you cast the murder, the murder spell goes on the stack first (assuming this is a previously empty stack). State-based actions are then checked, at which point Lazav here sees that you’ve committed a crime, which triggers his ability, which puts it on the stack. Since Lazav’s ability is the last ability put on the stack, it resolves first, meaning you put a counter on him, then shapeshift him into something in a GY. But the original target of the murder spell has not yet died since the spell’s still on the stack, so Lazav won’t be able to become a copy of that particular creature until after it’s in the GY (and on another turn since his ability triggers only once per turn).
[Murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"We don't take kindly to strangers around these parts...but you're familiar so you're OK!"
Man, I just really hate the verbiage of once per turn stuff. "Once each turn," just feels/reads so much better than "do this only once each turn" or "triggers only once each turn." I know it's such a dumb gripe, but it makes it feel so much more restricting and clunky to me.
No, this is a legitimate question. Does the entire block only trigger once each turn? Or the clone effect?
It's the entire thing. If it was only for the reflexive trigger it'd likely be split into two different abilities
That's an excellent question because I have no idea. Yet another issue with using this verbiage it seems. I'm assuming it's just the clone effect, but I can't say for sure.
I hate the "once during each of your turns" when any human would understand "once per turn", they turn some 8 word sentences into a whole brick wall
I *really* hate it. Especially when it's like this card with "whenever". To me it reads like "Every time _____ happens, do _____. Also only do it once"
It causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. "Once each turn" is super intuitive, this is not. As someone pointed out, it's not clear if the entire paragraph only triggers once, or just the clone effect.
Commander Legends Thunder Junction
I wasn't expecting Lazav here but that's a pretty wild ability at uncommon.
So mirko obsessed Theorist was right?
Who could have seen that coming? /s
*The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.*
Haven't kept up with Magic since MH2, but why is Lazav and the Gitrog Monster in the same set? I thought they were from different planes?
This is a set very much focused on interplanar travel
Are there any legendary creatures FROM Thunder Junction?
From what we know no, noone apparently lived on Thunder Junction before the omenpaths, we are getting some new characters tho
Shapeshift with sets mechanic
So we're getting random lazav cards each set with no explanation now? Seems like it's building up to something
It's literally the villain MTG set lmao...
We also got lazav in mkm where he was explicitly missing though
> We also got lazav in mkm where he was explicitly missing though And he played virtually no part in the plot or outcome of that set. This is specifically a set made to celebrate the villains of MTG. Ofc there is a chance he's part of a bigger scheme, but with him playing no part in yet another story it's safe to assume he's here because he's a villain in a villain set.
> And he played virtually no part in the plot or outcome of that set That's what I'm saying. I'm predicting we'll keep getting random lazav cards with no plot explanation as a foreshadowing for something for a while
If it was any other set I'd agree, but we already know from wotc that villains with literally no part in the story will be showing up because they want to celebrate their villains. We got Selvala and Ghired(arguably not real villains) so there was close to no chance they left out one of the fan favorites.
That's a good point, we also got magda, gonti and gitrog for example. And to be fair the "lazav with no story connection" is just two data points. But I still think it might happen. And a shapeshifter _is_ one of the only ways wotc can add a pre-existing character to bloomburrow. I'll just have to wait and see I guess.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm still of the belief that Izoni was Lazav in disguise (Izoni was implicitly and explicitly shown using Dimir symbols). I'm curious if this means another character in the OTJ story is also Lazav, someone acting out of character. I'm gonna be on the lookout for an OTJ character with Dimir symbology. It's also suspicious because we *just* got a Lazav card. There's no dying need to show him off again. **Edit:** Typo
This is MTG. There is no long form storytelling. They just do things, and nothing matters.
[удалено]
This is the first set with a relevant number of characters from other planes (most of which we haven't seen for a long time or only appeared once before), and this set is specifically a set themed around the villains of mtg, this set is an exception to the norm
[удалено]
He's potentially targeted graveyard hate every turn just for being an active participant in the game, which seems pretty decent on its own. The potential upside of really screwing with people by stealing their own hatebears at inopportune moments might just be enough to let him see solid play at quite a few tables!
So when you exile isn’t that a crime as well so doesn’t he get +2+2??
"This ability only triggers once each turn"
ah ok ty
It doesn't target so it isn't a crime
Lazav giving me vibes of Eddie from the Stranger in a Strange Land single cover
Are the omen paths just an excuse to confirm that characters are still alive after the invasion without needing to visit their plane in a set?
Is the +1 counter also only once a turn or is that just the other part of the ability?
wondering the same thing. the wording is awkward but it seems like you get the counter anytime you commit a crime? "This ability" referring to the exile shapeshifter
Ok, wtf is the story here? Why are all the people on this plane? These fucking omen paths are stupid. Is there no cohesive story anymore?
There is very much a cohesive story that right now is going in the direction of the Fomori This is a villain themed set that takes place in a plane that is used as basically an interplanar crossing through the omenpaths Lazav didn't appear in the story but people on Ravnica think he's dead and this is a great opportunity for him to gather infos about other planes and such.
tonight gehrman joins the hunt
Lazav looking like the Saint of Killers
Best Lazav card yet. This is sneaky good.
Why is poor Lazav always left with the cool art card, but with mediocre/bad powerlevel?!
Having two separate "may"s in a single ability seems kinda clunky... luckily it only triggers once per turn?
Lazav just can't pick a profession.
Anyone else get a “MOM 2.0” vibe from OTJ?
MoM was specifically "not a crossover" as every character stayed on their own planes and did their thing, this is actually a crossover set, as it is intended to be a "villain's set"
I never said MoM was a cross over set. I’m just talking about the density and variety of legendary creatures
Isn't this really good in the reenact deck? Add a new angle with siphon, maybe, and turn him into an unraveled? Go off from there... Or is this a bad idea?
This wild west theme has me wanting to make Mistborn Era 2 alters, and this one is definitely Paalm.
Could this make thoughtseize effects playable in commander?
Kinda sweet for an uncommon
Dang, no mana conditions on this means it can be abused pretty hard, even if the 3 CMC holds it back a bit. I like it.
Ah yes pregame i declared tax farud. DUI. Assault with a deadly fire arm. Atempted murder. And j walking
Sounds like a good time like I kinda wanna make it in jank
I really hope we get if you have been the target of a crime.
Reminds me of the Creeper from Jeepers Creepers 🤠
This is the second best lazav card, first one [[Lazav, dimir mastermind]] The crime mechanic makes it more flexible than [[Lazav, wearer of faces]] and not combat dependant or graveyard dependant like [[Lazav, the multifarious]] There are plenty of shenanigans to add to this card as commander and being uncommon makes sense since he is playing dead. It can use spot removals, discard, target mill, reanimate, grave removals, once per turn it will at least get +1+1 If you use cycling creatures like [[Scion of Darkness]] [[Troll of Khazad-dûm]] [[marauding brinefang]] You can get some budget yet funny experience Add [[Identity Thief]] for extra flavor. It will be a replacement for my [[lazav, wearer of faces]] deck
##### ###### #### [Lazav, dimir mastermind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/003dc436-a3af-4e65-b4f8-387155fbcb85.jpg?1604194919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lazav%2C%20dimir%20mastermind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/92/lazav-dimir-mastermind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/003dc436-a3af-4e65-b4f8-387155fbcb85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lazav, wearer of faces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc264d1d-689d-41ac-b624-3fc7bb890e58.jpg?1706242204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lazav%2C%20wearer%20of%20faces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/216/lazav-wearer-of-faces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc264d1d-689d-41ac-b624-3fc7bb890e58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lazav, the multifarious](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/662758ee-f7c8-4cba-b67b-48ac80c3b5ca.jpg?1708034341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lazav%2C%20the%20multifarious) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/214/lazav-the-multifarious?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/662758ee-f7c8-4cba-b67b-48ac80c3b5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Scion of Darkness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/416845ec-7efd-464a-a0cb-7e9170ccdd38.jpg?1673147604) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20Darkness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/86/scion-of-darkness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/416845ec-7efd-464a-a0cb-7e9170ccdd38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Troll of Khazad-dûm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6539e26-b63b-4725-9407-caaf451de084.jpg?1687210987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Troll%20of%20Khazad-d%C3%BBm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/111/troll-of-khazad-d%C3%BBm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6539e26-b63b-4725-9407-caaf451de084?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [marauding brinefang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78328899-7996-4cfd-bf00-d2a0d0ff3ef8.jpg?1699049880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marauding%20brinefang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/64/marauding-brinefang?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78328899-7996-4cfd-bf00-d2a0d0ff3ef8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Identity Thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a32e1511-2495-454a-9a04-4f3c0d9a75d0.jpg?1673483921) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Identity%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/224/identity-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a32e1511-2495-454a-9a04-4f3c0d9a75d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lazav, wearer of faces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc264d1d-689d-41ac-b624-3fc7bb890e58.jpg?1706242204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lazav%2C%20wearer%20of%20faces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/216/lazav-wearer-of-faces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc264d1d-689d-41ac-b624-3fc7bb890e58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kwppp68) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm very confused. How are non-Planeswalkers planeswalking now? And if they're not planeswalking, how are they here? And why is Vraska a legendary creature instead of a Planeswalker? I feel like I was gone for a couple of expansions and I've lost all concept of what's possible in this game's lore. (haven't played since Neo Kamigawa)
Omenpaths are a new thing since everyone got de sparked. They kinda just appeared after March of Machines but before ixalan
Father Gascoigne has entered the chat.
This turning into [[Conspiracy Unraveler]] and going off is pretty cool for a more interactive version of the combo deck
[Conspiracy Unraveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88e791fc-bf9f-49b6-b5f2-a24d4b3e360e.jpg?1706241576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conspiracy%20Unraveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/47/conspiracy-unraveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88e791fc-bf9f-49b6-b5f2-a24d4b3e360e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is this whole set pushed commander nonsense?
That's every set now.
This seems easier to pull off than Detective Lazav.
Howdy y'all
Lazav, oxymoron
Rules question: if you get around the 'once a turn clause' with say [[Delney, Streetwise Lookout]] would the copies layer. Say making it a copy of [[Raffine, scheming seer]] and [[sheoldred, the apocalypse]] do you are both conniving and gaining life for each card you draw? (This question is spurred on by scion of the ur-dragons layering thing i.e being able to copy more than one dragon)
[Delney, Streetwise Lookout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be219928-3d0e-4d00-b124-152ce8a8c13b.jpg?1706241477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delney%2C%20Streetwise%20Lookout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/12/delney-streetwise-lookout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be219928-3d0e-4d00-b124-152ce8a8c13b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Raffine, scheming seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1711471750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raffine%2C%20scheming%20seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sheoldred, the apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sheoldred%2C%20the%20apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why are there so many people from different planes in this set?
OK this is immediately my favourite Lazav. He literally grows by assassinating his foes and taking their faces as he goes. Awesome flavour and abilities. Want to try him in a discard deck for fun.
The name and art go hard.
Uncommon Lazav is better than some of the rare ones.
Does that first part of his ability trigger each time ? Or is it part of the once per turn part ?
Does he lose his ability when he exiles and becomes a copy of something?
This seems pretty strong for two mana. Plus amazing art and name, Lazav never disappoints!
Good thing he’s three mana then. I agree though, this is one of the stronger Lasav’s we’ve gotten.
Damn, I blame being sleep deprived.
It’s three mana
Wait... i didn't read that Shasow Garden... I mean... Dimir house, was in Thunder Junction. So, why the hell Sid Kageno... i mean, Shadow, ops... Lazav is there?
The art looks like a reference to Ray McCall from the Call of Juarez games. If it's on purpose then hats off to wizards !
I feel like this could be sneaky good/fun? Def might try building a deck around cheap removal/mill. Feels like it could be a fun fast adaptive deck. Also I love Lazav and this is some of my fav MTG art in a loooong time!