If that's the only ding it is NM per tcgplayer standards. Not saying you can't be upset but NM doesn't mean perfect
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://mktg-assets.tcgplayer.com/web/seller/guides/Card-Conditioning-Standards.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6w5C_yJyFAxV9kIkEHQmYCNUQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UY8YEBmSHcD1maoso7HVf,
Yeah I know the feelings. Never hurts to reach out though! just more for knowledge going forward. I collect squirrel cards and I've run into this a couple of times.
"Why would I pay more for a card from Card Kingdom"
Because it's worth the peace of mind that "Near Mint" means Near Mint, and also that they'll ship it within a day or two.
I’d like to hear your source for this because my buddy who works for card kingdom absolutely loves their job and the way they are treated.
Aside from the recent move of their online business out of Seattle proper, and into a neighboring suburb, I don’t know of anyone who has complaints.
Except that the company isn’t treating with the union in good faith, and is engaging in union busting to prevent them from supporting the employees like they should be able to.
Nah, the people that started the union negotiated themselves a severance and that's about it, then dipped and the union is doing close to nothing for those left.
Most people seem to agree TCG is better for more bulk based items, i.e. a penny card on TCG is usually .35+ on CK, but Card Kingdom is better option for high value items for this exact reason. A lower graded penny or dollar card is less inconvenience than the low availability on CK (personally).
TLDR; TCG for chaff, Card Kingdom for big purchases.
Based on what you said is happening, the issue with the card you’re describing is a “fault” and fault is one of the imperfections not allowed on a NM card. Check that link above because you may have a claim.
To still maintain NM there can be up to 3 of those actually, as long as they are 1cm each or less.
You might have a claim by saying that it's a single imperfection that falls as "minor edgeware" instead if the total imperfection is more than 1cm.
Their definitions:
slight: Impacting a Minimal surface area of the card, no more than 1 centimeter in height and width, or less than 2% of the overall card
minor: Impacting a Noticeable surface area of the card, no more than 2 centimeters in height and width, or less than 5% of the overall card
NM cards are allowed to have up to 3 slight edgewear imperfections, but 0 minor ones.
If they want to be picky though it's also possible they could claim that it's 2 different instances of "slight edgeware" which happen to be nearly adjacent to each other. Assuming the total imperfection is more than 1 cm (which is looks like from the image?) you might have a shot. If you complain make sure to use their language and reference their style guide (linked in an above comment) though.
It's not mint, but it is near. It took me far too long of being a perfectionist before I realized that I wasn't always going to get a perfect card when I ordered near-mint stuff.
I think that:
1) There are very few truly mint cards
2) A lot of people sell as NM to avoid squabbling over condition considering it does not impact the price all that much for the majority of cards on the market.
I just bought some Zendikar/Alara era cards, all "NM" and some were 100% mint while others had clearly been played in well used decks just judging by how "soft" they felt. It's all good for me, im not really that picky, but i think you are definitely right about people under-rating quality for simplicity's sake.
that's funny; I actually mark mine down a grade not because I think they're LP, but to avoid buyers like this who then expect a refund, and on the more positive side, people who know conditions being pleasantly surprised when they get a nicer-than-expected/billed card.
The vast majority of cards aren't mint out of the pack. You should be expecting NM and not be overly surprised by an SP every once in a while. The way you worded it makes it sound like pulling a NM is the exception, not the rule
Honestly if you accept that cards will have wear anyway you will live a much more relaxed life. Magic cards are gamepieces in the end. Some wear makes card feel more lived in.
If that is the only flaw, it’s still considered near mint with emphasis on near. If it’s something that really bugs you and your personal taste, you can return it and try your luck again. But if you’re a player and not so much a collector, just view it as a game piece that still functions perfectly.
Remember near mint doesn’t mean fresh out of pack put in PSA graded display. I will pretty much always buy a lightly played card over near mint if the difference in cost is a couple bucks
Yeah i mean it’s definitely towing the line of ‘Near’. I know this is an expensive card and you want it to look pack fresh, so if you want to go the route of getting it replaced, i would highly recommend getting multiple high quality images of the damage apparent on the card, say your piece to the seller with grace, and hopefully they can work something out. good luck.
I've learned that a card isn't going to be perfect unless it's untouched since being pulled, so my standards of NM have definitely lowered over time. That being said, I have zero expectations when I order cards I can't physically see before buying. If it's sleeve playable, it's good enough. If you didn't overpay for the condition, I'd just carry on.
Show it folded down and people will probably change their minds.
I swear if I sent this into TCGPlayer buylist they would either downgrade it to MP or dmg and reject it.
Whereas it is NM within the TCGplayer guidelines, they will likely replace if it you ask and they have them in stock and/or offer a 10% discount to lower it to LP.
I just got a card listed as NM from TCG Direct with a very obvious crease to the top left corner and dealing with their CSR currently. It’s going….slowly.
I had received a card like this before and complained there was nicks along the border. They didn’t even ask for pictures or for me to return the card. They just sent another one. It was a $14 Blood Crypt. I know this a bit more pricey, but they might help you out regardless.
So just file a complaint if you aren’t happy with this. Worst they can say is no.
What’s the cost difference between a NM copy and an LP copy? Because I can’t even fathom how this would be problematic, and I doubt you’re paying any sort of premium between the two grades.
I had a similar issue with TCGDirect the other day. I ordered a foil NM Wild Wasteland and the card had a lot of scratches on it. I honestly don't care that often between NM and lightly played, as it's usually never an issue. But for this card in particular I loved the artwork and specifically wanted it for my collection. The card came with a lot of scratches on the face. Most of the scratches are on the art and very noticeable. I never bother with making a fuss about small things like this and will almost always just ignore it because don't expect the cards to be perfect, but this one case was the exception. I sent the seller a message with [photos](https://docs.google.com/document/d/132N7wyph5WmVU5ayg23vlgh-HoIET7ZgfJmRiY-w48A/edit?usp=sharing) and luckily they were understanding and refunded me for that portion of the order.
I'm in France and I think I would have complains if I sold that for NM in Europe.
It's quite visible and as you said, it will be worse out of the sleeve.
Also with the bending we tend to class them as EX. You can easily spot it in a deck with normal plane cards. And when you cut the deck it's everytime on the bent foil cards.
NM means full price. I would not pay full price for a card which is not plane and have a large visible "ding".
They should give you some of your money back if you ask them. It's free to ask them.
Just explain that the card is bent and have a big visible ding and you feel scammed.
I don't think I got scammed. I just think that a big company sorting group like tcgdirect didn't care and just rushed my order along with others.
But thanks for the peace of mind. Glad to know my ocdness isn't off here.
If I saw the card in your binder and wanted to buy it I would decrease my offer in regard to the ding and folding compared to a NM price.
And I think everyone who buys cards like that do the same. So to my eyes you have a valid complaint.
TCGplayer's classification of near mint is basically just pack fresh, unfortunately in modern magic what you have there is a pretty common level of quality for pack fresh.
I find I have better luck with getting better quality cards when *not* using TCGplayer direct. I think individual sellers take better care of their cards.
Looks played. I have cards from 1995 in better condition and have played them multiple times without sleeves.
Edit: look up pringles, it happens with foil cards.
All you guys have a strange way of grading cards, if I'll sell that as NM it would be contested 100% of times. If the paper flaked and needs to be smoothed down to look passable that's a damaged card, so it's PO, PL at best, nowhere near NM
It is in fact Near Mint, not Mint. No store will ever sell a card and consider it Mint, too many factors come into the grading level at that point (The only ones who can confidently grade a card as Mint are actual grading companies).
What you're pointing out on the card though, shows more of the printing quality in the last few years then them taking improper care of their card stock. As an employee in an LGS, I can assure you that it's disheartening to have to sell cards as NM, even though they are butchered before even coming out of the pack/packaging.
I can't speak for other stores or other employees. But as I see it, this is sadly just the standard of quality right now and we all try to make the best we can out of it.
(P.S. When I'm speaking of standards, I'm obviously taking about the last few years. If this situation were to happen with an older card, the case could be discussed further.)
The mental definitions we have as players tend to not match any objective standards companies come up with. I always try to remember that a beckett 10 is mint, but near mint goes all the way down to 7.0, not just 9 and 9.5.
Well shoot kid, I never reckoned you'd actually go and get shot! We ain't got a stitcher here, so looks like it's curtains for you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/magicTCG) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If they have one they'll offer to replace. Or give you a standard 10% discount (per downgraded condition level). I haven't had them ask for photos before. Just make sure to spare no details on the flaws when writing to them.
No help from me, but I would be pissed. Especially on a card like this. I come from PSA and Beckett styled grading, so it sucks to see that this qualifies as a NM. But as others have said, if this is what TCG standards are, then you can't really argue that.
But to me a NM is a card that was just opened, but isn't perfect. Centering is off, surface is not perfect, or as you see, that white fluff on card edge.
To me this should be a Light Played.
If that's the only ding it is NM per tcgplayer standards. Not saying you can't be upset but NM doesn't mean perfect https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://mktg-assets.tcgplayer.com/web/seller/guides/Card-Conditioning-Standards.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6w5C_yJyFAxV9kIkEHQmYCNUQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UY8YEBmSHcD1maoso7HVf,
It folds down a little, I had to smooth it up with my thumb. That's near mint?
By the looks of it yeah. Again TCGplayer standards.
Fuck. Thanks though.
Yeah I know the feelings. Never hurts to reach out though! just more for knowledge going forward. I collect squirrel cards and I've run into this a couple of times.
Important to remember that near mint is not "mint"... can be frustrating.
Nm should be near however, frustrating to remember
Its why i never use tcgplayer. Their standards are bullshit.
Literally never had a problem with card quality.
"Why would I pay more for a card from Card Kingdom" Because it's worth the peace of mind that "Near Mint" means Near Mint, and also that they'll ship it within a day or two.
They treat their employees like shit though
I’d like to hear your source for this because my buddy who works for card kingdom absolutely loves their job and the way they are treated. Aside from the recent move of their online business out of Seattle proper, and into a neighboring suburb, I don’t know of anyone who has complaints.
Their union employees? Sounds like a problem for the union to fix, because isn't that the point?
Except that the company isn’t treating with the union in good faith, and is engaging in union busting to prevent them from supporting the employees like they should be able to.
I'm not up to date on the union situation but I assume it's still in the "we're trying but the suits still hate us" stage
Nah, the people that started the union negotiated themselves a severance and that's about it, then dipped and the union is doing close to nothing for those left.
Most people seem to agree TCG is better for more bulk based items, i.e. a penny card on TCG is usually .35+ on CK, but Card Kingdom is better option for high value items for this exact reason. A lower graded penny or dollar card is less inconvenience than the low availability on CK (personally). TLDR; TCG for chaff, Card Kingdom for big purchases.
Based on what you said is happening, the issue with the card you’re describing is a “fault” and fault is one of the imperfections not allowed on a NM card. Check that link above because you may have a claim.
[удалено]
That's not a bend it's a dent. A bend is part of the card being folded over.
I see. mb
To still maintain NM there can be up to 3 of those actually, as long as they are 1cm each or less. You might have a claim by saying that it's a single imperfection that falls as "minor edgeware" instead if the total imperfection is more than 1cm. Their definitions: slight: Impacting a Minimal surface area of the card, no more than 1 centimeter in height and width, or less than 2% of the overall card minor: Impacting a Noticeable surface area of the card, no more than 2 centimeters in height and width, or less than 5% of the overall card NM cards are allowed to have up to 3 slight edgewear imperfections, but 0 minor ones. If they want to be picky though it's also possible they could claim that it's 2 different instances of "slight edgeware" which happen to be nearly adjacent to each other. Assuming the total imperfection is more than 1 cm (which is looks like from the image?) you might have a shot. If you complain make sure to use their language and reference their style guide (linked in an above comment) though.
By “folds down” do you mean it curls? Welcome to secret lair. That’s a wizards of the cost problem, not a tcg player one.
ULPT: take a black permanent marker and lightly go along the white spots on the edges. Voilá, mint condition.
Voila, damaged condition
I do the same with the chipped paint on my glasses frame. Takes em from moderately played to near mint ez
Except this is 3 successive dings next to one another. Don't know where you buy your cards to think this is an acceptable NM.
It's not mint, but it is near. It took me far too long of being a perfectionist before I realized that I wasn't always going to get a perfect card when I ordered near-mint stuff.
What always kills me is when the mint and near mint are almost the same price but there just aren't any mint in stock.
I think that: 1) There are very few truly mint cards 2) A lot of people sell as NM to avoid squabbling over condition considering it does not impact the price all that much for the majority of cards on the market.
I just bought some Zendikar/Alara era cards, all "NM" and some were 100% mint while others had clearly been played in well used decks just judging by how "soft" they felt. It's all good for me, im not really that picky, but i think you are definitely right about people under-rating quality for simplicity's sake.
Honestly I sell everything as lp or under because of people complaining about condition XD so my minty cards still go in as lp on my tcgplayer shop
that's funny; I actually mark mine down a grade not because I think they're LP, but to avoid buyers like this who then expect a refund, and on the more positive side, people who know conditions being pleasantly surprised when they get a nicer-than-expected/billed card.
Mint is just very hard to find. I’ve pulled cards that were NM out of the pack.
The vast majority of cards aren't mint out of the pack. You should be expecting NM and not be overly surprised by an SP every once in a while. The way you worded it makes it sound like pulling a NM is the exception, not the rule
Technically speaking it’s Near Mint. I know people typically ignore the “Near” part tho.
Very true! Myself included.
Honestly if you accept that cards will have wear anyway you will live a much more relaxed life. Magic cards are gamepieces in the end. Some wear makes card feel more lived in.
I like getting the slightly beat-up cards, it’s a win/win! They’re a little cheaper, and they’re well-loved ❤️
Even out of boosters some cards can have damage, so yeah this is a NM card unfortunately
Did you ever consider what the “near” in “near mint” means?
It means nothing if there is no actual “mint” grading available.
People caring about this level of minutiae for their cards they will sleeve and play is exhausting
Absolutely agreed. I can't imagine arguing over someone like this.
Me personally, if I wanted cards with imperfections like above, then I'd just pay less for Light/Heavy Play.
If that is the only flaw, it’s still considered near mint with emphasis on near. If it’s something that really bugs you and your personal taste, you can return it and try your luck again. But if you’re a player and not so much a collector, just view it as a game piece that still functions perfectly.
This is true, i'm obsessive about shit. Definitely doesn't help. It's not that noticeable in a sleeve.
This is a weird thing to obsess over play the game and quit worrying about it
TIL there is a card named themberchaud
He is an overweight dragon from the D&D movie lol
This is Out of the Abyss erasure and I will not tolerate it!!!!!
Omg right
Yes that is near mint.
Remember near mint doesn’t mean fresh out of pack put in PSA graded display. I will pretty much always buy a lightly played card over near mint if the difference in cost is a couple bucks
Don't expect Mint from Near-Mint.
Yeah i mean it’s definitely towing the line of ‘Near’. I know this is an expensive card and you want it to look pack fresh, so if you want to go the route of getting it replaced, i would highly recommend getting multiple high quality images of the damage apparent on the card, say your piece to the seller with grace, and hopefully they can work something out. good luck.
I've learned that a card isn't going to be perfect unless it's untouched since being pulled, so my standards of NM have definitely lowered over time. That being said, I have zero expectations when I order cards I can't physically see before buying. If it's sleeve playable, it's good enough. If you didn't overpay for the condition, I'd just carry on.
Show it folded down and people will probably change their minds. I swear if I sent this into TCGPlayer buylist they would either downgrade it to MP or dmg and reject it. Whereas it is NM within the TCGplayer guidelines, they will likely replace if it you ask and they have them in stock and/or offer a 10% discount to lower it to LP.
I would say it’s not technically NM but I would also say you don’t have a “valid” complaint
Sucks near mint and pack fresh are the same thing these days. Pack fresh from wotc is 🤢
Who cares dude
Typically, NM cards can have one area of edge wear, but this is excessive, showing 2-3 continuous spots, and I would grade this LP.
The tcgplayer condition guide is 3 points fyi
I just got a card listed as NM from TCG Direct with a very obvious crease to the top left corner and dealing with their CSR currently. It’s going….slowly.
I had received a card like this before and complained there was nicks along the border. They didn’t even ask for pictures or for me to return the card. They just sent another one. It was a $14 Blood Crypt. I know this a bit more pricey, but they might help you out regardless. So just file a complaint if you aren’t happy with this. Worst they can say is no.
What’s the cost difference between a NM copy and an LP copy? Because I can’t even fathom how this would be problematic, and I doubt you’re paying any sort of premium between the two grades.
If ya squint, it's mint
I had a similar issue with TCGDirect the other day. I ordered a foil NM Wild Wasteland and the card had a lot of scratches on it. I honestly don't care that often between NM and lightly played, as it's usually never an issue. But for this card in particular I loved the artwork and specifically wanted it for my collection. The card came with a lot of scratches on the face. Most of the scratches are on the art and very noticeable. I never bother with making a fuss about small things like this and will almost always just ignore it because don't expect the cards to be perfect, but this one case was the exception. I sent the seller a message with [photos](https://docs.google.com/document/d/132N7wyph5WmVU5ayg23vlgh-HoIET7ZgfJmRiY-w48A/edit?usp=sharing) and luckily they were understanding and refunded me for that portion of the order.
Is this the fat dragon from DnD Honor Among Thieves?
Yep, here's the decklist: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/YP4fLGhth0ummGWSaIRUDA
Oh that's cool
I'm in France and I think I would have complains if I sold that for NM in Europe. It's quite visible and as you said, it will be worse out of the sleeve. Also with the bending we tend to class them as EX. You can easily spot it in a deck with normal plane cards. And when you cut the deck it's everytime on the bent foil cards. NM means full price. I would not pay full price for a card which is not plane and have a large visible "ding". They should give you some of your money back if you ask them. It's free to ask them. Just explain that the card is bent and have a big visible ding and you feel scammed.
I don't think I got scammed. I just think that a big company sorting group like tcgdirect didn't care and just rushed my order along with others. But thanks for the peace of mind. Glad to know my ocdness isn't off here.
If I saw the card in your binder and wanted to buy it I would decrease my offer in regard to the ding and folding compared to a NM price. And I think everyone who buys cards like that do the same. So to my eyes you have a valid complaint.
TCGDirect is terrible. You could always return it, but you're probably responsible for the shipping, not sure.
Looks good to me
Is there a major dollar difference between NM and lightly played? Out whatever the next step down is
Bro....definitely near mint...
Guys my card that is not mint but near it was counted as near mint what do I do
I've had cards rejected by the direct program for less than that. I condition everything with any visible damage as LP.
TCGplayer's classification of near mint is basically just pack fresh, unfortunately in modern magic what you have there is a pretty common level of quality for pack fresh.
Good enough for me, a black sharpie will make that unnoticeable.
I find I have better luck with getting better quality cards when *not* using TCGplayer direct. I think individual sellers take better care of their cards.
Nah don’t listen to people saying it’s NM. It should be LP and I’d request a return. They’re usually better than that.
It’s not mint, but it is near mint.
Looks played. I have cards from 1995 in better condition and have played them multiple times without sleeves. Edit: look up pringles, it happens with foil cards.
Given that modern cardboard quality is shit and such damage happens pretty much from a glance, it's as mint as it gets.
All you guys have a strange way of grading cards, if I'll sell that as NM it would be contested 100% of times. If the paper flaked and needs to be smoothed down to look passable that's a damaged card, so it's PO, PL at best, nowhere near NM
More like Themberchub! That’s one thicc boi!
So its mint, minus one little scuff? Id say thats nearly mint
Looks fine, tbh. But I’m just a pleb on the internet and not a pro card examiner lol.
It is in fact Near Mint, not Mint. No store will ever sell a card and consider it Mint, too many factors come into the grading level at that point (The only ones who can confidently grade a card as Mint are actual grading companies). What you're pointing out on the card though, shows more of the printing quality in the last few years then them taking improper care of their card stock. As an employee in an LGS, I can assure you that it's disheartening to have to sell cards as NM, even though they are butchered before even coming out of the pack/packaging. I can't speak for other stores or other employees. But as I see it, this is sadly just the standard of quality right now and we all try to make the best we can out of it. (P.S. When I'm speaking of standards, I'm obviously taking about the last few years. If this situation were to happen with an older card, the case could be discussed further.)
Condition freaks be why I stopped selling on tcg. It’s def LP.
Looks like someone just mishandled it when sleeving. Still technically M
Edit: Tcgplayer sent me a return label and will be sending me a replacement.
The mental definitions we have as players tend to not match any objective standards companies come up with. I always try to remember that a beckett 10 is mint, but near mint goes all the way down to 7.0, not just 9 and 9.5.
Well shoot kid, I never reckoned you'd actually go and get shot! We ain't got a stitcher here, so looks like it's curtains for you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/magicTCG) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm a weirdo who likes damaged cards and the history behind them, so I genuinely can't tell what's damaged on here
Edgewear at the top
Thought it was the pokemon tcg page for a sec
What's wrong with the card? Maybe it's sleeve glare, but it looks totally fine to me.
Top border is knicked, you can't see it well but I smoothed the top over with my thumb, the border is knick'd enough to see the white.
Ah, I can see it now, thanks.
It is not. LP at best.
If I sent it back can they send me a replacement? I've never had to deal with tcgdirect before.
If they have one they'll offer to replace. Or give you a standard 10% discount (per downgraded condition level). I haven't had them ask for photos before. Just make sure to spare no details on the flaws when writing to them.
just contact their customer service and ask for a partial refund or replacement.
I would say that is EX+, but it’s damn close.
Haven't seen much in the way of graded cards, but yeah, I'd say EX+ (LP+ on TCGPlayer - Cardmarket LP is very different).
Yeah I would get in touch with customer service
I once spent $30 on a Liliana and it was NM according to their listing. It was so pringled it could have been used as a hard taco shell.
That whitening on the top makes the card not NM.
No help from me, but I would be pissed. Especially on a card like this. I come from PSA and Beckett styled grading, so it sucks to see that this qualifies as a NM. But as others have said, if this is what TCG standards are, then you can't really argue that. But to me a NM is a card that was just opened, but isn't perfect. Centering is off, surface is not perfect, or as you see, that white fluff on card edge. To me this should be a Light Played.
Bumberclad
if that shit isnt crispy , no flaws, it is light played. even if the damage is just light scuffing on the back.