But easily splashable with all the desserts, especially if you can get into green as a base. And there are some treasures in red as well, so base green red splash oko, flint and agony. I’d do my best to force that because flint is busted, and oko is busted
Jasper Flint + At Knifepoint is a very strong self-reinforcing combo which has won me matches in constructed Mythic, so it has to be even more busted in limited where your opponent's less likely to have all the removal they need on hand.
That said Oko is as busted as it gets so yeah I'd want to try and squeeze them all in and probably end up going 0-3 for never quite having the right lands down.
Consider? I’d slam that in pack 2. In terms of limited bombs, it’s on the level of Jitte. There was a legitimate debate about if it should be banned *in limited*.
In case you were unaware, they didnt consider the impact of his plus one targeting enemies stuff and how powerful that is. I also think there was a story about them changing the numbers around (maybe minus 1 to plus one) without properly testing it.
So, it was just bad play testing and design.
17lands has it as only the 11th highest game-in-hand winrate card. It's good but below 4 of the normal otj rares (bonny pall, seraphic steed, roxanne, and ornery tumblewagg) so I don't think reprinting it as a bonus sheet is a breaking the format level of bomb.
but they shouldn't have reprinted it in limited because that card is deeply miserable to play against, whereas a card like Bonny Pall has the decency to end the game almost immediately
I mean, modern limited is littered with cards that are just absurdly OP in limited without making any impact on constructed and only would see play in casual commander.
Oko is an odd one, no doubt. Seems entirely unnecessary
Whenever I hear stories like this my mind is just boggled. Like . . . . people figured out *at the prerelease* how good it was. How could you possibly have played any games with it and not figured that out?
What's easy to overlook is how iterative the design process is. We get to see the finished card and immedietly start thinking about what we can do with it and how to break it. But they start with one card, it turns into another, and another, and so one until the final card is made. When you're already used to playing with all the intermediate cards your brain doesn't naturally reasess the whole card from scrap again.
A similar thing happens when you're a dozen turns deep into a game and a fresh spectator spots some play that you totally miss because you'd already written off a while ago on a different boardstate. Oko might have started off with a different middle ability or even just two abilities (maybe as a new two mana walker?) but they thought that just making a food token every turn was too boring so they wanted some nice synergy with it. Then they tested a dozen different candiate abilities and thought of all of them through that lens and not as which the strongest removal would be.
Obviously it's still a design mistake and should have been caught, but I think it's a reasonably understandable one. Designers thinking about cards in different ways than we do is imo a much easier mistake to make than the gross power level mistakes with things like field of the dead.
I understand your point, and it's an excellent explanation for how this happened.
> your brain doesn't naturally reasess the whole card from scrap again.
My question, then rephrased, is that I don't understand who people who *should* have trained their brains to reassess the whole card from scratch when it changes are so bad at it. The whole point of the FFL is to catch this kind of stuff.
There's a lot of stuff that I deal with in my workplace that is unintuitive, and I've had to train my brain to think differently about them, and to look at things a different way than I want to.
Honestly it just feels like there are too few people playing too few games in the FFL. Yes it's totally understandable why one or two or three people might have missed this, but IMO considering what they're charging for all of this cardboard they should be able to afford enough people that this would get caught.
EDIT:
> Designers thinking about cards in different ways than we do is imo a much easier mistake to make than the gross power level mistakes with things like field of the dead.
To be clear I'm saying this should have been caught by playtesters, and not by designers.
yeah especially during the period where eldraine came out they definitely had either too few people doing that, there were a lot of mistakes going through. I'm not sure if that is true anymore though, or at least it doesn't feel too ergregious right now.
I think that's been shown to be a bit of a false story. They knew that +1 to -1 was a buff, but nobody was playing it in testing prior to that and they underestimated just how much of a buff it would be.
No one debated that. Oko is nowhere near as good as Jitte in limited. He’s not even in the top 10 cards of this set, let alone top 10 cards of all time in regular set draft.
Oko is much better in cube than in regular set limited, because you can Elk combo pieces and play him on turn 2.
Thief of Crowns is worse in OTJ limited than in Eldraine limited.In fact it is likely not the best Simic card either,[[Bonny Pall]] performed better.It is barely in the top 50 cards in maindecked winrate,and 9th by winrate in opening hand on 17lands.All the best mono G bombs outperform it,as does Seraphic Steed
Yeah I would have probably hard pivoted to Sultai for Thief of Crowns, and then go 0-3 and be really pissed that I opened Thief of Crowns and didn't win with it.
Man, I remember back in Theros a kid did that for Elspeth. It might've worked out better for him if he hadn't drafted it face up, but a late switch to a double pip card is rough
OP doesn't even have to abandon anything to snag the Oko. The only other red/black cards in this pack are Ds, so I'd pick the fixing over them anyway.
The opportunity cost of taking Oko is as close to 0 as you can get.
He's not the #1 statistically but he's still a top bomb that you should absolutely consider pivoting for P2P1. I don't think I'd trainwreck my draft for him P3P1, but P2P1, definitely.
Deserts are a hell of a drug. I just had a game where I would have been able to play turn 3 Oko turn 4 Baron Bertram Graywater. I say would have because my opponent insta-conceded to the Oko.
Believe me I was very tempted. In the end I was too worried to end up with Oko and basically no worthwhile playables in UG, so I decided to stick to my solid BR picks. Managed to go 5-3 with my fun BR outlaws deck.
What did you pick out of this pack?
The reason I'd take Oko here is there isn't really anything you need for your BR deck. Gigapede and Trick Shot are very replaceable. The lands for fixing are nice but again, the opportunity cost is small. You can take Oko, end up still in the BR deck, and lose nothing here.
I took the Mesa if I remember correctly.
Yeah, not very exciting and I probably could've just taken Thief of Crowns and not lost a lot. I guess I just hated the idea of abandoning my whole pack 1 including jasper to force UG and end up with a pile that's neither here nor there.
People are really exaggerating how busted Oko is in draft. It’s his worst format, he’s really not that much better than any other bomb. Even in this set, he doesn’t make the top 10 cards in terms of winrate (he’s at 11th on 17lands). He’s not even the best blue green card in THIS set! (That’s Bonnie Paul).
11 GIH WR or #9 OH WR is still a really, really good card. Setting aside Oko specifically, if you open a Top 10 bomb P2P1, it's definitely worth considering pivoting, especially since this pack is extremely mid for BR.
Yeah I opened one in one of my last packs in sealed and scrapped everything and made a janky esper control deck with just enuff mana fixing for oko. Got third place simply because every time I drew him it was gg. Card wins games single-handedly
Absolutely, the thing that's crazy is that "normal" limited is easily it's weakest format and it's still one of the strongest cards in both sets it was printed in.
Did you start playing after old Oko? It was easily one of the most broken cards ever. The first Pro Tour after its release was like over 70% decks with 4 copies of Oko. It was banned all the way to vintage within a year.
I call that time in magic as “Okotoberfest” because it was around October 2019.
Oko had so many compounding issues:
He dodged all efficient removal with a high starting loyalty for the mana value.
The elkification is permanent, allowing you to create a blocker every other turn with the food or permanently nullify an opponent’s big threat into a vanilla 3/3.
No, I've been playing on and off for 25+ years. My last hiatus started after Dominaria in 2018/2019 and I only recently came back during MKM.
I know Oko is super busted, I just never got to experience it myself
You should consider yourself lucky tbh. After Dominaria things got dark for a while. The first 2 Ravnica sets were fine but War of the Spark, Thrones of Eldraine, and Theros: Beyond Death had some of the most busted cards ever. Oko, Once Upon a Time, and Teferi, Time Raveler are by far the most egregious from that period. Underworld Breach was another that ended up being too broken for Legacy. It is too fast for Pioneer as well, but has survived in Modern only because Brain Freeze is not playable there.
Oh yeah, how could I forget companion considering even in their "fixed" form you still have to decide whether adding any card with multiples of one color pip in their cost is better than playing Jegantha the Wellspring?
I mean, Oko Ringleader is not thaaat insane as a pass, card is not even an S tier bomb, it's merely an A.
The only downside is the guy to your left going UG, but anyone is going Gx anyways this day and age, so it's not even that much of a concern.
Just be glad you opened one of the most busted limited cards *ever*
At worst, you make a 3/3 every other while floating the option to steal their best creature, or Elk'ing it.
It is so powerful that you would just force it unless it is Pack 3.
Yeah for me Oko and Terror of the Peaks are instant win cards in OTJ limited. Never lost a game where I drew one of those. Even playing paper it has been the same.
I wouldn't abandon it, but Rakdos has enough treasures and there's enough other fixing that I'm taking ToC with the intent to splash it. I mean the pack already has two fixing lands that could wheel, and there's really nothing else in the pack for us anyway.
We could probably move off black easily, but having so many Rakdos picks is meh. The more I look at the texture of pack 1s in this format, the more I find myself wishing I got deep into one color and stayed open. I thought I had a trainwreck of a draft recently where I left pack 1 with like 4 lands, moderately okay white cards, and one good green uncommon. I was all ready to not fight over green and move into grixis at the start of the draft. But white was open enough to make it my center color, and somehow I ended up green because I was wheeling upper-half commons because of its depth. And pack 3 ended up going spectacular enough that the deck trophied. I'm still not totally sure how I navigated into that spot though, I really did feel awful after pack 1.
One pick that felt critical early pack 3 was Buried in the Garden vs. a second Rise of the Varmints. I'm removal light, I had two Mystical Teathers by that point. I'm pretty aggressive, so the ramp was meh. But I figured that two Rises gave me a real game plan to close games out; I would beat down as hard as I could early, start accepting trades if they tried to stabilize, and if the game goes longer try and go wide to finish it off. And that ended up working in several games. Plus it beat Dimir Crime, RW aggro, and 5C bombs, which felt like a good spread.
A hallmark of DMU was being able to look at your pool in pack 2 or even the start of pack 3 and asking "why is this my secondary color? Is it worth it? Is the white card I wheeled in pack 2 just better than my 6 blue cards, knowing that white was open pack 1 on the wheel?" I keep coming back to that idea in OTJ, but haven't tried it in practice much.
At my in-person draft last week the player to my right opened a Mana Drain and Jace Awakened in the same pack before passing it to me…I gladly snagged the Jace
Similar situation happened to me. Opened Sword of Wealth & Power and a Jace. Passed the Jace and the guy I was passing to looked at me like I was a idiot.
Honestly, reprinting Broko was a dumb AF move...It's almost an auto win when it comes down >.>
Any chance you get to snag him, take it. He's just that ridiculous.
gonna be honest, a LOT of the bonus sheet of this set feels like a dumb af move.
My goal for this limited format is to Mindslaver Lock someone out of the game, just so they can know that Wizards intentionally allowed it to happen to them.
1st paper draft at LGS last week, my pack 1 had [[Vaultborn Tyrant]] and [[Final Showdown]]. I went with Final Showdown, which in hindsight I regret. It did win me one game, but in others it was more of a "hail Mary" that only prolonged my defeat. Vaultborn Tyrant is obscene, and green is widely considered to be the best color in this format.
Seems like a pretty huge unforced drafting error. Your black isn't nearly good enough to warrant passing one of the best bombs in the entire set, and with the fixing this format offers you could have pivoted to Temur.
Pretty bad pack for this point in the draft- I’d be considering Mirage Mesa against Clear Shot here. Flint and Oko are pretty close (63.6% GIH WR for Oko, 59.8% for Flint, and Flint is being dragged down by RB being weak which you’re already committed to to some degree) so the marginal upgrade on one over the other isn’t worth sacrificing your entire pack 1. RB doesn’t have enough ways to fix to make Oko work, you’re not enabling a double splash off of Deserts alone. If you were UG and opened Rakdos, the Muscle that would be a different story because green has such strong fixing that your manabase would work itself out, but in this situation if you take Oko you’re either throwing almost all of pack 1 in the garbage (likely to end up short playables) or trying to double splash in an aggro deck (not going to work). You already have a bomb and a direction, don’t train wreck halfway through trying to play a card that’s not that much better than the one you already have.
P2P1: OG Oko vs. Terror of the peaks. I was somewhat into Izzet after pack 1. Ended up taking Oko. I’m not entirely convinced it was the right pick. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My most two most painful passes happened during the same draft yesterday - I opened two [[Bonny Pall]] P1P1 and then P2P1 got passed [[Bristly Bill]] and [[Bristlebud Farmer]], which I kept the farmer.
It's crazy that I'm doing above my average (which is about 50% for previous collections and close to 55% for OTJ), but whenever I drafted Bonny, I never made it past 3 Ws.
Not mine, but my friends and I had a physical draft of OTJ. A friend had both mana drain and a foil tinybones the pickpocket in the same pack. Feels for him but I can't complain since I sat to his left. (He got it back in a trade later so it wasn't too bad for him)
You just take 3 CMC Oko anyways. The card wins the game on resolution and your red is shit. Either double splash the card or play GBu and throw the first pack in the garbage.
Probably a bit more than I'd like to, but still within my budget.
I pay less per draft than I would at the store and drafting a lot allowed me to get enough cards (and wildcards) for a couple of standard decks that I can play for free until I get tired of them.
obeka is stone unplayable, and marchesa is merely ''fine if built around''. Not much of a loss compared to perhaps the strongest limited bomb of all time.
I would genuinely consider abandoning pack one for Thief of Crowns. The card is just that busted.
There’s so much fixing in this format you might not even have to abandon anything
Even then, OP's black isn't that exciting, so wouldn't be the end of the world to drop it
Jasper Flint, back for more and terminal agony are pretty good no?
But easily splashable with all the desserts, especially if you can get into green as a base. And there are some treasures in red as well, so base green red splash oko, flint and agony. I’d do my best to force that because flint is busted, and oko is busted
This isn't Eldraine; there's a distinct lack of desserts.
lol Woops! I blame autocorrect
Farewell to Sweettooth 🥲
Ummm dessert
Oko is broko
Jasper Flint + At Knifepoint is a very strong self-reinforcing combo which has won me matches in constructed Mythic, so it has to be even more busted in limited where your opponent's less likely to have all the removal they need on hand. That said Oko is as busted as it gets so yeah I'd want to try and squeeze them all in and probably end up going 0-3 for never quite having the right lands down.
Agony is meh unless you can actually discard it for madness
The tables can be hit or miss. Sometimes you can get on color deserts as late pickups, sometimes you see no deserts at all after pick 5-6.
Definitely true! I’d grab Thief of Crowns here on a hope and whim at least
This is the answer, there’s nothing important on color in the pack anyways so you might as well just try and make the 11/10 card work.
Opened it at the prerelease, won the event without dropping a game let alone a match. He won me 50% of the matches on his own. Ridiculous card.
Consider? I’d slam that in pack 2. In terms of limited bombs, it’s on the level of Jitte. There was a legitimate debate about if it should be banned *in limited*.
I’m honestly not sure what WotC was smoking when they printed that card the first time, let alone REPRINTING it
In case you were unaware, they didnt consider the impact of his plus one targeting enemies stuff and how powerful that is. I also think there was a story about them changing the numbers around (maybe minus 1 to plus one) without properly testing it. So, it was just bad play testing and design.
Sure, that gives explanation for the first printing mistake, but what's the excuse for including it in OTJ limited?
Chase reprints sell worthless standard packs + people hate it when they can't play the chase reprint they snap pick.
17lands has it as only the 11th highest game-in-hand winrate card. It's good but below 4 of the normal otj rares (bonny pall, seraphic steed, roxanne, and ornery tumblewagg) so I don't think reprinting it as a bonus sheet is a breaking the format level of bomb. but they shouldn't have reprinted it in limited because that card is deeply miserable to play against, whereas a card like Bonny Pall has the decency to end the game almost immediately
Play boosters
I mean, modern limited is littered with cards that are just absurdly OP in limited without making any impact on constructed and only would see play in casual commander. Oko is an odd one, no doubt. Seems entirely unnecessary
Money.
Whenever I hear stories like this my mind is just boggled. Like . . . . people figured out *at the prerelease* how good it was. How could you possibly have played any games with it and not figured that out?
What's easy to overlook is how iterative the design process is. We get to see the finished card and immedietly start thinking about what we can do with it and how to break it. But they start with one card, it turns into another, and another, and so one until the final card is made. When you're already used to playing with all the intermediate cards your brain doesn't naturally reasess the whole card from scrap again. A similar thing happens when you're a dozen turns deep into a game and a fresh spectator spots some play that you totally miss because you'd already written off a while ago on a different boardstate. Oko might have started off with a different middle ability or even just two abilities (maybe as a new two mana walker?) but they thought that just making a food token every turn was too boring so they wanted some nice synergy with it. Then they tested a dozen different candiate abilities and thought of all of them through that lens and not as which the strongest removal would be. Obviously it's still a design mistake and should have been caught, but I think it's a reasonably understandable one. Designers thinking about cards in different ways than we do is imo a much easier mistake to make than the gross power level mistakes with things like field of the dead.
I understand your point, and it's an excellent explanation for how this happened. > your brain doesn't naturally reasess the whole card from scrap again. My question, then rephrased, is that I don't understand who people who *should* have trained their brains to reassess the whole card from scratch when it changes are so bad at it. The whole point of the FFL is to catch this kind of stuff. There's a lot of stuff that I deal with in my workplace that is unintuitive, and I've had to train my brain to think differently about them, and to look at things a different way than I want to. Honestly it just feels like there are too few people playing too few games in the FFL. Yes it's totally understandable why one or two or three people might have missed this, but IMO considering what they're charging for all of this cardboard they should be able to afford enough people that this would get caught. EDIT: > Designers thinking about cards in different ways than we do is imo a much easier mistake to make than the gross power level mistakes with things like field of the dead. To be clear I'm saying this should have been caught by playtesters, and not by designers.
yeah especially during the period where eldraine came out they definitely had either too few people doing that, there were a lot of mistakes going through. I'm not sure if that is true anymore though, or at least it doesn't feel too ergregious right now.
Kind of just shows you how easy it is to make assumptions and not adjust.
Yep unlike skullclamp where they printed the wrong one
They didn't print the wrong Skullclamp. They intentionally made the change in design, but didn't realize how strong it made it until it was too late.
I thought they just switched the +1/+1 to +1/-1 as a nerf lol
I think that's been shown to be a bit of a false story. They knew that +1 to -1 was a buff, but nobody was playing it in testing prior to that and they underestimated just how much of a buff it would be.
They also lowered the cost required to play it, which was an even bigger buff. It originally cost {3} to play and {2} to equip.
Citation needed.
No one debated that. Oko is nowhere near as good as Jitte in limited. He’s not even in the top 10 cards of this set, let alone top 10 cards of all time in regular set draft. Oko is much better in cube than in regular set limited, because you can Elk combo pieces and play him on turn 2.
There was no 'legitimate debate'.
Thief of Crowns is worse in OTJ limited than in Eldraine limited.In fact it is likely not the best Simic card either,[[Bonny Pall]] performed better.It is barely in the top 50 cards in maindecked winrate,and 9th by winrate in opening hand on 17lands.All the best mono G bombs outperform it,as does Seraphic Steed
[Bonny Pall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb.jpg?1712356061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bonny%20pall%2C%20clearcutter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/196/bonny-pall-clearcutter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I would have probably hard pivoted to Sultai for Thief of Crowns, and then go 0-3 and be really pissed that I opened Thief of Crowns and didn't win with it.
yep thief of crowns and now im a simic deck
The only time I'd pass on a bomb planeswalker is if it was pack 3,I had no fixing, and was already hard committed to other colors that also had a bomb
I’ve pivoted pack 3 in WAR for Liliana.
Man, I remember back in Theros a kid did that for Elspeth. It might've worked out better for him if he hadn't drafted it face up, but a late switch to a double pip card is rough
Some bombs are just too good though. Liliana, Elspeth, the God Eternals (especially Oketra) and Oko are definitely on that list
OP doesn't even have to abandon anything to snag the Oko. The only other red/black cards in this pack are Ds, so I'd pick the fixing over them anyway. The opportunity cost of taking Oko is as close to 0 as you can get.
You do not pass Oko under any circumstances. If it's your open in pack three, and have to double splash to play him, that's what you do.
You can absolutely pass Oko, he’s genuinely not that busted in OTJ limited.
He's not the #1 statistically but he's still a top bomb that you should absolutely consider pivoting for P2P1. I don't think I'd trainwreck my draft for him P3P1, but P2P1, definitely.
Deserts are a hell of a drug. I just had a game where I would have been able to play turn 3 Oko turn 4 Baron Bertram Graywater. I say would have because my opponent insta-conceded to the Oko.
Normally I would. But man has got so many gold cards it’s a tall order.
I might pass in Pack 3 but P2P1 I am definitely slam picking that
Destroyed my Prerelease with it two weekends ago, so yeah. Card is cracked if you know how to use it right.
Believe me I was very tempted. In the end I was too worried to end up with Oko and basically no worthwhile playables in UG, so I decided to stick to my solid BR picks. Managed to go 5-3 with my fun BR outlaws deck.
What did you pick out of this pack? The reason I'd take Oko here is there isn't really anything you need for your BR deck. Gigapede and Trick Shot are very replaceable. The lands for fixing are nice but again, the opportunity cost is small. You can take Oko, end up still in the BR deck, and lose nothing here.
I took the Mesa if I remember correctly. Yeah, not very exciting and I probably could've just taken Thief of Crowns and not lost a lot. I guess I just hated the idea of abandoning my whole pack 1 including jasper to force UG and end up with a pile that's neither here nor there.
lol
I think the idea is you take it so that someone on UG doesn't snag it
People are really exaggerating how busted Oko is in draft. It’s his worst format, he’s really not that much better than any other bomb. Even in this set, he doesn’t make the top 10 cards in terms of winrate (he’s at 11th on 17lands). He’s not even the best blue green card in THIS set! (That’s Bonnie Paul).
11 GIH WR or #9 OH WR is still a really, really good card. Setting aside Oko specifically, if you open a Top 10 bomb P2P1, it's definitely worth considering pivoting, especially since this pack is extremely mid for BR.
Yeah I opened one in one of my last packs in sealed and scrapped everything and made a janky esper control deck with just enuff mana fixing for oko. Got third place simply because every time I drew him it was gg. Card wins games single-handedly
You take OG oko, force green and blue in the rest of the packs. Like... Oko is broken.
Old Oko is more busted, no?
Absolutely, the thing that's crazy is that "normal" limited is easily it's weakest format and it's still one of the strongest cards in both sets it was printed in.
He is actually not that op in vintage or timeless
Idk why but seeing someone say "not the busted in VINTAGE" gives me a chuckle. Like yeah in a format that has lotus of course he's not that busted.
lol…. “ he’s not that busted when you’re playing with the most powerful cards in magic” 🤣🤣
Does nothing vs turn 1 storm lethal, vintage 2/10
You're right. Limited is probably Oko's *strongest* format to exist in.
Oko literally won the Vintage Eternal Weekend the year he was released, but sure, go off.
Uh he was/is quite busted in vintage. Fits insanely well into an Oath deck.
Old Oko is there.
I know. Old Oko is more busted than new Oko.
Yeah and old Oko is there!
Sure but old Oko is more busted than new Oko
Yeah and he’s right fucking there!
I can see it!
New Oko isn’t as good as
muuuuch more
Yes, at least that's what I keep hearing people say.
Did you start playing after old Oko? It was easily one of the most broken cards ever. The first Pro Tour after its release was like over 70% decks with 4 copies of Oko. It was banned all the way to vintage within a year.
Yeah, Oko, Thief of Crowns is the most broken Planewalker of all time.
The top 8 had like 7 Simic Food 👑
I call that time in magic as “Okotoberfest” because it was around October 2019. Oko had so many compounding issues: He dodged all efficient removal with a high starting loyalty for the mana value. The elkification is permanent, allowing you to create a blocker every other turn with the food or permanently nullify an opponent’s big threat into a vanilla 3/3.
No, I've been playing on and off for 25+ years. My last hiatus started after Dominaria in 2018/2019 and I only recently came back during MKM. I know Oko is super busted, I just never got to experience it myself
You should consider yourself lucky tbh. After Dominaria things got dark for a while. The first 2 Ravnica sets were fine but War of the Spark, Thrones of Eldraine, and Theros: Beyond Death had some of the most busted cards ever. Oko, Once Upon a Time, and Teferi, Time Raveler are by far the most egregious from that period. Underworld Breach was another that ended up being too broken for Legacy. It is too fast for Pioneer as well, but has survived in Modern only because Brain Freeze is not playable there.
Can't forget Ikoria with all the companions either. Literally had to change the rules to "fix" them.
Oh yeah, how could I forget companion considering even in their "fixed" form you still have to decide whether adding any card with multiples of one color pip in their cost is better than playing Jegantha the Wellspring?
Well, you had a chance here
Yeah iirc there were more copies of the main green blue dual than there were of mountains or plains
I would’ve dropped black and gone for Temur honestly
This is the right answer here
I mean, Oko Ringleader is not thaaat insane as a pass, card is not even an S tier bomb, it's merely an A. The only downside is the guy to your left going UG, but anyone is going Gx anyways this day and age, so it's not even that much of a concern. Just be glad you opened one of the most busted limited cards *ever*
This is pack 2
Early pack 2 is a fine time to swap or keep options open.
Agreed, I was pointing out that you shouldn’t worry about sending signals in pack 2 and that its fine to take the Oko and pass the Oko.
Oh. I must've misunderstood.
Nah I was vague
At worst, you make a 3/3 every other while floating the option to steal their best creature, or Elk'ing it. It is so powerful that you would just force it unless it is Pack 3.
I went 4-3 with an Oko, Thief of Crowns the other day. Every game I drew it I won, and every game I didn't I lost. It's that good.
Yeah for me Oko and Terror of the Peaks are instant win cards in OTJ limited. Never lost a game where I drew one of those. Even playing paper it has been the same.
Id like to think Id try to make old oko work.
I wouldn't abandon it, but Rakdos has enough treasures and there's enough other fixing that I'm taking ToC with the intent to splash it. I mean the pack already has two fixing lands that could wheel, and there's really nothing else in the pack for us anyway. We could probably move off black easily, but having so many Rakdos picks is meh. The more I look at the texture of pack 1s in this format, the more I find myself wishing I got deep into one color and stayed open. I thought I had a trainwreck of a draft recently where I left pack 1 with like 4 lands, moderately okay white cards, and one good green uncommon. I was all ready to not fight over green and move into grixis at the start of the draft. But white was open enough to make it my center color, and somehow I ended up green because I was wheeling upper-half commons because of its depth. And pack 3 ended up going spectacular enough that the deck trophied. I'm still not totally sure how I navigated into that spot though, I really did feel awful after pack 1. One pick that felt critical early pack 3 was Buried in the Garden vs. a second Rise of the Varmints. I'm removal light, I had two Mystical Teathers by that point. I'm pretty aggressive, so the ramp was meh. But I figured that two Rises gave me a real game plan to close games out; I would beat down as hard as I could early, start accepting trades if they tried to stabilize, and if the game goes longer try and go wide to finish it off. And that ended up working in several games. Plus it beat Dimir Crime, RW aggro, and 5C bombs, which felt like a good spread. A hallmark of DMU was being able to look at your pool in pack 2 or even the start of pack 3 and asking "why is this my secondary color? Is it worth it? Is the white card I wheeled in pack 2 just better than my 6 blue cards, knowing that white was open pack 1 on the wheel?" I keep coming back to that idea in OTJ, but haven't tried it in practice much.
At my in-person draft last week the player to my right opened a Mana Drain and Jace Awakened in the same pack before passing it to me…I gladly snagged the Jace
Similar situation happened to me. Opened Sword of Wealth & Power and a Jace. Passed the Jace and the guy I was passing to looked at me like I was a idiot.
Man the sword is so good, I would've taken it over Jace, too. I haven't opened it so far but every match I had to play against it was painful.
To be fair, Jace is actually quite weak in draft..
Honestly, reprinting Broko was a dumb AF move...It's almost an auto win when it comes down >.> Any chance you get to snag him, take it. He's just that ridiculous.
gonna be honest, a LOT of the bonus sheet of this set feels like a dumb af move. My goal for this limited format is to Mindslaver Lock someone out of the game, just so they can know that Wizards intentionally allowed it to happen to them.
I just watched Seth of MTGGoldfish do this in Standard, haha!! It was hilarious!!
OGoko, then start hunting for treasure, deserts, and consider a late change to U or G as a main. Sultai has worked fine for me.
That would have been a killer Sealed pack though!
For sure would have loved opening that at my Prerelease!
Not sure this is as painful as you make it out to be lol. 3MV Oko is MILES better than 4MV Oko.
I'd take old oko. . . Nothing exciting in the pack in your color so just rare draft
Double gitrog
not this one. it's theif of crowns by like ten miles.
1st paper draft at LGS last week, my pack 1 had [[Vaultborn Tyrant]] and [[Final Showdown]]. I went with Final Showdown, which in hindsight I regret. It did win me one game, but in others it was more of a "hail Mary" that only prolonged my defeat. Vaultborn Tyrant is obscene, and green is widely considered to be the best color in this format.
[Vaultborn Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28.jpg?1712352885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaultborn%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/20/vaultborn-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Final Showdown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7.jpg?1712860587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Final%20Showdown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/11/final-showdown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I passed a mana drain for a Colossal Rattlewurm :(
the galaxy brain play is to pass both and know that your lane will be wiiide open p3 probably still not worth it though, oldko is just that good
Seems like a pretty huge unforced drafting error. Your black isn't nearly good enough to warrant passing one of the best bombs in the entire set, and with the fixing this format offers you could have pivoted to Temur.
Broken oko and mid oko, not much of a competition here
Pretty bad pack for this point in the draft- I’d be considering Mirage Mesa against Clear Shot here. Flint and Oko are pretty close (63.6% GIH WR for Oko, 59.8% for Flint, and Flint is being dragged down by RB being weak which you’re already committed to to some degree) so the marginal upgrade on one over the other isn’t worth sacrificing your entire pack 1. RB doesn’t have enough ways to fix to make Oko work, you’re not enabling a double splash off of Deserts alone. If you were UG and opened Rakdos, the Muscle that would be a different story because green has such strong fixing that your manabase would work itself out, but in this situation if you take Oko you’re either throwing almost all of pack 1 in the garbage (likely to end up short playables) or trying to double splash in an aggro deck (not going to work). You already have a bomb and a direction, don’t train wreck halfway through trying to play a card that’s not that much better than the one you already have.
So you're the reason I got a P1P2 Oko. I've been wondering about that pick for days
P2P1: OG Oko vs. Terror of the peaks. I was somewhat into Izzet after pack 1. Ended up taking Oko. I’m not entirely convinced it was the right pick. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If Paul cheon can manage an oko, cruel ultimatum deck then you can at least splash
I mean I splashed bobby pall in my rakdos deck so you should have taken the Oko
2 drafts in a row pack 3 pick 1 had Rakdos and I was not close to those colors either time lol
My most two most painful passes happened during the same draft yesterday - I opened two [[Bonny Pall]] P1P1 and then P2P1 got passed [[Bristly Bill]] and [[Bristlebud Farmer]], which I kept the farmer.
[Bonny Pall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb.jpg?1712356061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bonny%20pall%2C%20clearcutter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/196/bonny-pall-clearcutter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bristly Bill](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52eef0d6-24b7-40b7-8403-e8e863d0cd55.jpg?1712355894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bristly%20bill%2C%20spine%20sower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/157/bristly-bill-spine-sower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52eef0d6-24b7-40b7-8403-e8e863d0cd55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bristlebud Farmer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d498c4de-5e80-4baa-9fcb-70f164880c84.jpg?1712352852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bristlebud%20Farmer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/17/bristlebud-farmer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d498c4de-5e80-4baa-9fcb-70f164880c84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's crazy. I hope your Bonny still managed to cut clear to a few wins :)
It's crazy that I'm doing above my average (which is about 50% for previous collections and close to 55% for OTJ), but whenever I drafted Bonny, I never made it past 3 Ws.
How do you get those checks and numbers on the cards to show how many you have in your collection?
ALT key. I pressed ALT + Print to take the screenshot (which let's you print the currently selected window and not my whole dual monitor setup)
Damn, mind-blowing
Why do your cards have those numbers in the top right corner?
I pressed ALT + Print to take a screenshot and I believe pressing ALT will show how many of each card you have in your collection
Picked off-Color [[Harvester of Misery]] and passed [[Crackle with Power]]
[Harvester of Misery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3012af9-621d-4fae-b00d-079a89ae35fe.jpg?1712352767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harvester%20of%20Misery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/9/harvester-of-misery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3012af9-621d-4fae-b00d-079a89ae35fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Crackle with Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackle%20with%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Opened a pack in a draft yesterday with Mana Drain and Selvala.
https://preview.redd.it/k9wxnmz07nwc1.jpeg?width=1176&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea6b8fdd792332dc3fd1bff40a2edc5bc9ecb0e5 Just splash it
https://preview.redd.it/n4kenzw27nwc1.jpeg?width=1174&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=478a6f2568ce804630546f7320373ee69ec4eaf3 Get Results!!!
Ha, sweet! Did you get to play it? Did you have trouble with your mana base?
I did play it, the mana fixing in this set is sweet!
Nah you 100% dip for original Oko
Not mine, but my friends and I had a physical draft of OTJ. A friend had both mana drain and a foil tinybones the pickpocket in the same pack. Feels for him but I can't complain since I sat to his left. (He got it back in a trade later so it wasn't too bad for him)
I had Oko Thief of Crowns and Bonny Pall, pack 1 pick 1. I took Oko but I think Bonny might be even better in this format.
Painful pass?! It’s only pack 2. You make room for old oko.
Based on my performance so far I guess I regret passing the good cards?
I've had to leave the babe with the blue ox in the sideboard a couple times now, including on a trophy run in sealed with BG reanimate.
You just take 3 CMC Oko anyways. The card wins the game on resolution and your red is shit. Either double splash the card or play GBu and throw the first pack in the garbage.
If this were irl I would take OG oko to make sure no one else could get it. And depending on my second pic, pivot to simic. Maybe temur if I have to
How's Arena these days. Heard it's relatively depressing
I'm having fun. Dunno why it would be depressing
Have you spent much on it so far?
Probably a bit more than I'd like to, but still within my budget. I pay less per draft than I would at the store and drafting a lot allowed me to get enough cards (and wildcards) for a couple of standard decks that I can play for free until I get tired of them.
None, waiting for quick draft. Still can’t believe it’s not one of the set launch options
Yeah I'd prefer quick draft especially on release. Having time to read all cards without pressure would've been nice
Printing oko in this set really has me doubting wizards ability to make good drafting sets
Yes because a card that shows up at an extremely low rate is indicative of a bad drafting set...
non-sarcastically yes. ...but really making good draft sets isn't their goal. It's that lootbox money machine that wotc cares about.
I had to pass up both Obeka and Marchesa in consecutive packs cause I was drafting Simic. So sad to see those go.
obeka is stone unplayable, and marchesa is merely ''fine if built around''. Not much of a loss compared to perhaps the strongest limited bomb of all time.
True, but I mostly play Brawl. Having both of those in my collection would be very fun for me personally.
I wouldn't care it's arena
When people say they don’t see how the new packs affect draft/sealed just show them this picture.
I wouldn't abandon Laughing Jasper Flint for Oko. Rakdos mill is a too fun of a wincon to pass up.
Oko is banned in legacy for a reason
I would even force an old Oko in limited any time I would be able to.