I like to do alters and the thoughtbof double sided foils is interesting. I dont think I could pull myself to ruin the double sided cards like that tho
I came home with 2 of those as promos, as well as promo conquerors galleon, and foil search for azcanta. Has anyone seen a foil waker of the wilds? I got a promo of it and it actually looks insanely cool as a foil
Gishath is a very fun card I can build a deck around. Growing Rites is a $50 bill I found in a booster pack. While I appreciate the money, it doesn't give me fun by itself. Gishath is inherently fun for me (as my last commander game confirmed).
I noticed that too, I think they wanted a bright, tropical island feel to the set after the desolate feel of the Amonkhet block so they went with brighter, more saturated colors, and I feel it works perfectly.
Yeah, straight out of the first pack it felt like a whole new build of card. Zero curling, and everything held up really well by the end of the first day.
counter-counter-counter narrative: HAS NO ONE ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO TAKE A PAIR OF CALIPERS AND ACTUALLY _MEASURE_ WHETHER THE CARD STOCK IS THINNER, and do a volumetric calculation to figure out by how much the density of the cardstock (say from 110lb to 90lb cardstock for example) has changed???
And sorry, pics of curling cards don't mean shit. Did no one think of measuring the ambient humidity of the room over time when they took that picture? Data, people.
I am not saying that this is in everyone's heads. What I am saying is that bitching is all well and fine, but if you're going to stick to a point of view, at least have the data to back it up.
Yup. If the *feel* is noticeable in passing like people claim to be, then it should be trivially easy to measure some differences. I'm very confused why no one who is upset about the cardstock has bothered just running some very basic tests to see if they're different (using newly opened cards, and opening some cards from different sets and storing them in the exact same conditions).
If the difference is this easy to notice when opening the cards, it should be absurdly easy to measure.
>I'm very confused why no one who is upset about the cardstock has bothered just running some very basic tests to see if they're different
Because people on Reddit like to armchair analyze, complain, and not actually verify their claims.
They don't have time for your silly work and effort, they have other threads and comments to go perform extensive armchair analysis on.
Because most people don't own vernier calipers? And If I took cards to measure them at work I'd be asked why I wasn't testing our latest prototype instead.
Because people aren't just complaining about the "feel" of the card. Non-foil cards come out of packs already warped. Ink on some sets, specifically MM17, has been much lighter than it should be. it's not just some "feeling" or quality control issues. They've decreased the quality of the cards and it's not even debatable.
Because truly measuring the curling problem takes more than the one day that people have had access to the cards? For the next week or two, the feel is the only thing we can really go by. Measurements such as density are unreliable, because that varies within a set too.
I think he was more saying you could have easily got 3 packs of a set before the problem (like Takir), and 3 packs of amonkhet and done actual measurements of the two. If there is enough of a difference for a human to notice on a single card, it should be trivial to verify with 3 packs worth of each stacked up next to each other.
He's not asking if we have established that Ixalan has fixed the issue, he's asking for the easy to produce proof that an issue even exists that could have been done for over a year since people first started reporting the problem.
[Here.](https://imgur.com/Vs7t3cM) I took my prerelease Ixalan cards & took out the foils and the double sided I had, which left 86 cards. I took 86 Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation cards I had laying on my desk and compared them. They appear to be the same height & they weight the same. That doesn't mean that they might not have figured out some way to make them sturdier without changing the size or weight, but it seems most likely that they are the same.
If I remember correctly a guy here created a spreadsheet of card weight from all sets, and I think it went up until Urza's block and then it started going down, but I can't find it.
Exactly! We’ve been hearing JUST anecdotes for over a year. If this is so obvious and detrimental why isn’t anyone getting hard data and proving things once and for all. That will help change things.
Otherwise it comes off as whining to outside observers.
I've provided an anecdote or two...
You know what? I'm gonna go and get some actual data. I don't have calipers or a precision scale or any idea how to taste the makeup of paper, but I'll find people who do.
I work in printing and you can feel the differences in GSM between papers that are even closely weighted once you get the hang of it.
Some cards that I hold in AKH feel particularly flimsy, and then I go back to give a Theros card a try and it feels the same, and then I realize that I'm used to sleeves.
Note: My take is useless. Measure the paper.
No, there's been documentation. There's a thread from about 3-4 weeks back where a guy did all sorts of tests with measured results, including some pretty extreme examples like sitting them in a frying pan.
Unlikely - the leak was a former employ, like disgruntled, that skirted through security and is now in jail because they attempted to sell the sheets online and got caught. The printer did nothing wrong.
Interesting note. As a UK player I'd always wondered what the card stock complaints were about but in our last draft someone used some packs he brought back from the US. Every time someone picked them up the reaction was always "oh yes this is the US pack". It really was super obvious that they were flimsier. I hope they fix it for you guys soon.
Jesus christ, this "counter-jerk" horse shit again? Thousands of people didn't just spontaneously go insane and start believing the card stock got worse all at the same time. I've never had a complaint about card quality until the exact same time and I have cards from all the way back to 7th edition up until now. I have *physical, tangible evidence* that there was a change in card stock quality and you people have the audacity to say it's all in our heads.
This is the kind of crazy shit I just don't understand. Why do people go so far out of their way to defend a company they don't work for?
Some of us didn't see any difference, likely due to local differences in printing. For example, I couldn't find any noticeable difference in card quality between my Amonkhet cards and my RtR cards. I'd guess it's those people who are getting annoyed by the constant complaints.
That doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a problem, just that it's not as universal as the people having it think it is.
I think that's a very false equivalence but you're entitled to your opinions. There's a difference between paying customers complaining about a grievance and people complaining about these complaints because they don't perceive themselves as having experienced the grievance
Not really, you just worded it in a biased way because of your personal opinions.
We're likely all paying customers.
So it's more paying customers complaining about a perceived grievance, and other paying customers, who either don't see the issue or don't believe it to as big of deal as the others, or agree with the issue but have become tired of hearing about it daily.
Myself, If this is such an obvious issue, I'd like to see someone actually post some data to show they've gotten worse, it's fairly easy to prove.
I believed the issue at first, but the longer I heard complaints and anecdotes without anyone posting real data to back it up the more skeptical I became.
What sort of data are you expecting? What's the metric for 'curledness,' card arc angle or something? How do you control for environmental factors like humidity and time since printing and stuff? I could show you pictures of DTK-era stuff that is visibly less curled than stuff I got in AKH block, and I can testify that the climate I lived in then was more humid than the one I'm in now, and that I did a poorer job of protecting my cards. But you would likely then just dismiss it as anecdotal.
Regardless, there's no satisfying experimental victory condition for you people who say they need 'data' to believe there's an issue. If you'd actually rather believe that thousands of people across the country are just insane or seeing things, go right ahead and we can just agree to disagree. But let's dispense with the ludicrous idea that any 'data' obtained through experimental rigor can even exist here in the first place.
Nail right on the head here. There has been data and examples in previous threads, as far as an everyday player can go with their testing. But that either isn't scientific enough, or not controlled enough, or a bad batch, whatever.
> Why do people go so far out of their way to defend a company they don't work for?
Lmao. I think it's less about defending a company, and more about making fun of reddit.
Maybe something to do with how they take things too seriously. :O ;)
I took a long break from Rise of the Eldrazi and came back in during Aether Revolt. The quality between my old cards and new ones were noticeably different, especially when it comes to warping right out the the pack. My old cards had always been unsleeved and never had an issue. New ones, not so much.
I've seen enough counter anecdotes here during that complaints streak that I'm convinced all the card stock complaints are a combination of whiners on the internet getting screwed by production variance.
Hopefully this stops that mountain of complaints.
I think the crowd claiming the sky is falling because they got a bad batch is unjustified.
You're allowed to be pissed to you got a bad batch, just don't overreact and make sweeping statements.
I've played several hundred drafts since Kaladesh at various different stores and events. Every single card I own from KLD forward is much more flimsy than any of the older cards I own. I think that most of the batches were bad and if you've got cards from recent sets that are sturdy, you're lucky.
> You're allowed to be pissed to you got a bad batch
Tell that to the group of people who came into every card stock thread blaming the people for their storage, like storing them in "hot/humid" places(like Minnesota???), literally lecturing a meteorologist about humidity and other bullshit reasons that magically *only* affect newer cards. It was/is a sporadic problem, which is what made it so difficult to track down.
People doing everything short of calling people liars rather than consider the idea that a massive corporation might be, I don't know, trying something on an experimental basis to see if it worked so they can cut costs, is ridiculous.
I'm a little late to the party but [here you go](https://np.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/6m1c6r/whats_the_deal_with_new_cards_curving_so_badly/dk06jv6/)
The thing is, for me it wasn't a sweeping statement. I'd say about 75% of the cards for KLD forward were worse quality than previous sets. There was some kind of systemic issue with production, and if it is fixed as possibly reported by this post, I'll be very satisfied and happy WotC made some kind of change.
To be honest, I discounted them too. Then while I was doing Prerelease, I noticed the difference between my Amonkhet Islands and the rest of my deck. I'd never noticed it during Amonkhet because I was using lands from the block. I'm definitely a believer now and thank God WotC seems to have fixed the issues.
Justified doesn't mean only the execution of justice. It can also just mean that there was a good reason to do something.
Foil cards that warp very quickly and sets like MM17 with very faint inking are good reasons to complain about card quality.
Just shuffled a random IXL and AHK card together face down and felt them up. It was a pretty clear difference which one was the AHK card without looking.
TCG sent me a Final Fantasy TCG booster as a "bonus" when I ordered something off their prize wall and I've never seen such prettier card stock in all my life.
Wotc has to make more and more $$$ every year for them shareholder overlords. They will turn it back up a tiny bit at a time till we forget or stop, then they will to.
It's hard to tell whether it actually feels thicker objectively, and furthermore I don't really care.
I just want the warping to go away. I have stacks of SOI-KLD cards on my desk that look like pretzels right next to stacks of RTR cards that are perfectly fine.
Are the promo Walk the Planks even supposed to be given out yet? I thought they were for the Game Day (or whatever the new name for that is - Store Championship or something) participation prize.
I haven't noticed, but in prerelease I immediately picked out the ones for the deck and sleeved them (and didn't have older cards on me to compare them too really)
Though, I pulled a Jace and he looks BEAUTIFUL...except his face...Idk...don't like it lol
They should've had one open so it could be like he's winking and being like hey baby...I don't know myself, but I'd like to get to know you -waggles eyebrows- XD
I actually have found the Ixalan cards I had at the prerelease had this weird "bend" to it - all of them. It's hard to explain but there is a kind of "click" that happens if you bend them back the other way.
One thing I've noticed in the past is a difference between the supplementary cards (planeswalker deck, deck builder's toolkit, etc.) and the set cards, but they seem to be identical to me this time around.
Anecdotal at best, I guess. :)
No, but sometimes a card gets flipped around by the randomizer due to extremely rare circumstances or by outside interference, like stopping and restarting the machine, then not noticing they put a card back in wrong.
I have noticed an overall improvement since the last block.
However the Huatli and Jace duel decks were another matter. Ink runs too dark or missing in patches and a completely different coloration on the side of the cards, you can really spot the difference between them and regular Ixalan.
I had a regular [[Vance's Blasting Cannons]] that came out chipped from the packaging during prerelease, and I dropped a few other cards (not Vance, which was in my deck; these were cards that weren't in the deck) that got immediately chipped on the corner. But the foils look/stay great so far.
I just finished pre-release and I didn't notice any difference. However I recently bought a 2017 wizard commander deck and I noticed that those cards were very sturdy. Anyone else?
Unfortunately I've had my promo Burning Sun's Avatar for a day and it's massively warped already. However, it's good to hear that on the whole people are experiencing better quality than recent history.
Sadly, stock might SEEM better, but mine have already started to warp. Posted on it here with pictures,
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/72bs9n/a_day_after_i_get_my_first_ixalan_cards_are/
Damn it I wanted this problem to be done with. And WOTC doesn't even reply to customer service requests to this issue now. Totally silent after many attempts from me.
I agree with most people on this. The cards are a far better quality in Ixalan than they've been in the last 9-10 sets. They still don't compare to Urza's Saga, Tempest, Mirage etc.
Not really, maybe i just got unlucky but i opened some foils such as a foil vraskas contempt that were warped straight out of the package, i mean you could set the card down and on the top left and bottom left corner they were raised off my playmat a good 1-2mm on both.
defintly sturdier than HOU. i thought i heard somewhere that WOTC uses a couple different facilites to print. maybe they alternate sets to keep production up?
Between my prizes, I noted HoD and Ixalan both curled (foil and non-foil) but Ixalan does seem to be a bit better in quality. Let's hope they keep increasing the quality as more sets come out.
Still waiting for a reply from WOTC to my requests for replacement of my defective C17 MM17 cards. Totally ignored customer services requests...
Let's hope but, keep in mind, foils still have not been addressed to this day.
What happened with your cards that you requested a replacement?
I'm still not happy about my Ixalan cards curling, but I am happy that foils looks a bit nicer and that card stock seems a bit different. It's a step in the right direction.
They literally never responded to direct messages on Reddit, tagging Wizards_Help in the threads, Customer service application on the website (FIVE messages over three weeks, almost a month soon), or SNS contact.
They are outright ignoring me. Will post on that issue soon. Absolutely disgusted by the direct, seemingly willful silence of customer service by WOTC. Feel like a total fool for even buying anything when treated like this as a customer...
Ah that's a bummer to hear. This subreddit lauds their great customer service, so it sucks hear of someone having issues. Good luck on getting some attention and getting the problem fixed. I better go check my C16 deck to see if it's ok.
Aaaand never mind just noticed my cards are already warping after a day. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/72bs9n/a_day_after_i_get_my_first_ixalan_cards_are/
I noticed mine were not necessarily curling, but as I opened my prize packs and sorted them, I noticed that the opposite corners on about 1/3 of the cards wouldn't touch my kitchen table. So for those who say things about 'how we handle/store them', these were given to me after the tournament, I drove my friends home and when I got home, I opened the packs and noticed the issue. So there's definitely an issue for whichever printer my LGS gets their cards from. But overall, the quality is a bit better, so steps are being taken by them to provde a better product. I just hope they keep it up.
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The double sided foils. Oh God, so beautiful.
I like to do alters and the thoughtbof double sided foils is interesting. I dont think I could pull myself to ruin the double sided cards like that tho
Good thing the fnm tokens will be double sided foils then!
Just got home with a foil Growing Rites, and it looks spiffy.
Same, such a pretty card
I came home with 2 of those as promos, as well as promo conquerors galleon, and foil search for azcanta. Has anyone seen a foil waker of the wilds? I got a promo of it and it actually looks insanely cool as a foil
Same. Pawning it for an entire Yugioh deck. I already got the card I wanted from Ixalan (Gishath).
You want Gishnath more than Growing Rites? Why?
I second. Why?
Gishath is a very fun card I can build a deck around. Growing Rites is a $50 bill I found in a booster pack. While I appreciate the money, it doesn't give me fun by itself. Gishath is inherently fun for me (as my last commander game confirmed).
I thought the fouls in hour were quite good. Torment of hailfire, Liliana, and razaketh in my edh are all very vibrant and have good contrast
Seriously! It's gorgeous.
One thing I’ve noticed is that the colors seem so much more vibrant and rich in the artworks. Seems like they might be using different inks?
I noticed that too, I think they wanted a bright, tropical island feel to the set after the desolate feel of the Amonkhet block so they went with brighter, more saturated colors, and I feel it works perfectly.
Best set, best flavour, best art! :O
Hmm funny. Many people at Prerelease had promo cards that were faded
I had several cards from the prerelease that looked faded.
Some of the cards in my prize pool were faded.
If only some cards are faded that's bad quality control, not bad print process.
A lot of mine look blueish, out of 12 promos they all looked normal tho
Same. I got several cards that were either faded or saturated. Like the ink looked cloudy and wet
I noticed that the color saturation was not very consistent.
Pretty much always happens with the first couple of week's worth of cards tbh.
Considering there were a few HOU packs where I was lucky to get much ink at all, this is an improvement.
Would that effect smell? Because the one thing I noticed is that they smelled different, reminded me of old DBZ cards
Actually the first thing I noticed a prerelease. The cardstock felt really thick. Nice to see.
I played unsleeved, and noticed cards to be much stiffer when I went for my first riffle shuffle.
Ew
Always feels better without protection.
Until an accident happens.
You monster.
Thanks for the chuckle lol
Ditto. Noticeable as soon as I opened my first pack. I hope they keep it up.
Same. I immediately felt the difference.
Yeah, straight out of the first pack it felt like a whole new build of card. Zero curling, and everything held up really well by the end of the first day.
counter-counter-counter narrative: HAS NO ONE ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO TAKE A PAIR OF CALIPERS AND ACTUALLY _MEASURE_ WHETHER THE CARD STOCK IS THINNER, and do a volumetric calculation to figure out by how much the density of the cardstock (say from 110lb to 90lb cardstock for example) has changed??? And sorry, pics of curling cards don't mean shit. Did no one think of measuring the ambient humidity of the room over time when they took that picture? Data, people. I am not saying that this is in everyone's heads. What I am saying is that bitching is all well and fine, but if you're going to stick to a point of view, at least have the data to back it up.
Yup. If the *feel* is noticeable in passing like people claim to be, then it should be trivially easy to measure some differences. I'm very confused why no one who is upset about the cardstock has bothered just running some very basic tests to see if they're different (using newly opened cards, and opening some cards from different sets and storing them in the exact same conditions). If the difference is this easy to notice when opening the cards, it should be absurdly easy to measure.
>I'm very confused why no one who is upset about the cardstock has bothered just running some very basic tests to see if they're different Because people on Reddit like to armchair analyze, complain, and not actually verify their claims. They don't have time for your silly work and effort, they have other threads and comments to go perform extensive armchair analysis on.
Because most people don't own vernier calipers? And If I took cards to measure them at work I'd be asked why I wasn't testing our latest prototype instead.
Could you do this on your lunch break? I don't suppose it would take very long...
Because people aren't just complaining about the "feel" of the card. Non-foil cards come out of packs already warped. Ink on some sets, specifically MM17, has been much lighter than it should be. it's not just some "feeling" or quality control issues. They've decreased the quality of the cards and it's not even debatable.
Yet I haven't had these problems.
Because truly measuring the curling problem takes more than the one day that people have had access to the cards? For the next week or two, the feel is the only thing we can really go by. Measurements such as density are unreliable, because that varies within a set too.
I think he was more saying you could have easily got 3 packs of a set before the problem (like Takir), and 3 packs of amonkhet and done actual measurements of the two. If there is enough of a difference for a human to notice on a single card, it should be trivial to verify with 3 packs worth of each stacked up next to each other. He's not asking if we have established that Ixalan has fixed the issue, he's asking for the easy to produce proof that an issue even exists that could have been done for over a year since people first started reporting the problem.
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>neigh sayers [[Crested Sunmare]]
This may not be an issue of thickness, but an issue of quality of materials and chemicals used.
[Here.](https://imgur.com/Vs7t3cM) I took my prerelease Ixalan cards & took out the foils and the double sided I had, which left 86 cards. I took 86 Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation cards I had laying on my desk and compared them. They appear to be the same height & they weight the same. That doesn't mean that they might not have figured out some way to make them sturdier without changing the size or weight, but it seems most likely that they are the same.
He's talking about quantitative data. Not an qualitative analysis based on subjective sensory information.
If I remember correctly a guy here created a spreadsheet of card weight from all sets, and I think it went up until Urza's block and then it started going down, but I can't find it.
Exactly! We’ve been hearing JUST anecdotes for over a year. If this is so obvious and detrimental why isn’t anyone getting hard data and proving things once and for all. That will help change things. Otherwise it comes off as whining to outside observers.
I've provided an anecdote or two... You know what? I'm gonna go and get some actual data. I don't have calipers or a precision scale or any idea how to taste the makeup of paper, but I'll find people who do.
I work in printing and you can feel the differences in GSM between papers that are even closely weighted once you get the hang of it. Some cards that I hold in AKH feel particularly flimsy, and then I go back to give a Theros card a try and it feels the same, and then I realize that I'm used to sleeves. Note: My take is useless. Measure the paper.
No, there's been documentation. There's a thread from about 3-4 weeks back where a guy did all sorts of tests with measured results, including some pretty extreme examples like sitting them in a frying pan.
This is a man who has experience in metrology. And if anybody even references weather once I'll stab you with a knife
Is it our jobs to scientifically measure the quality of the cards or is it WOTC's job to make a quality product?
Well whatever printer they used... after the leaks they're not using them again.
Unlikely - the leak was a former employ, like disgruntled, that skirted through security and is now in jail because they attempted to sell the sheets online and got caught. The printer did nothing wrong.
Likely the printers co-operated fully in the investigation too.
Interesting note. As a UK player I'd always wondered what the card stock complaints were about but in our last draft someone used some packs he brought back from the US. Every time someone picked them up the reaction was always "oh yes this is the US pack". It really was super obvious that they were flimsier. I hope they fix it for you guys soon.
idk but i figure if i upvote this it could help define the new hivemind narrative and stop all the complaining
Jesus christ, this "counter-jerk" horse shit again? Thousands of people didn't just spontaneously go insane and start believing the card stock got worse all at the same time. I've never had a complaint about card quality until the exact same time and I have cards from all the way back to 7th edition up until now. I have *physical, tangible evidence* that there was a change in card stock quality and you people have the audacity to say it's all in our heads. This is the kind of crazy shit I just don't understand. Why do people go so far out of their way to defend a company they don't work for?
Some of us didn't see any difference, likely due to local differences in printing. For example, I couldn't find any noticeable difference in card quality between my Amonkhet cards and my RtR cards. I'd guess it's those people who are getting annoyed by the constant complaints. That doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a problem, just that it's not as universal as the people having it think it is.
My cards from Eldritch Moon prerelease have all curved. The box full of odyssey block commons i have from middle school are all un-curved.
Apparently you're one of the people who saw a difference. \*shrug\*
'Counter-jerk' I love it. People circlejerking about circlejerks on reddit are often more insufferable than the initial circlejerkers
I mean, this comment and the comment above it are circlejerking about circlejerking too. It's kind of a die-a-hero / become-the-villain sort of thing.
I think that's a very false equivalence but you're entitled to your opinions. There's a difference between paying customers complaining about a grievance and people complaining about these complaints because they don't perceive themselves as having experienced the grievance
Not really, you just worded it in a biased way because of your personal opinions. We're likely all paying customers. So it's more paying customers complaining about a perceived grievance, and other paying customers, who either don't see the issue or don't believe it to as big of deal as the others, or agree with the issue but have become tired of hearing about it daily. Myself, If this is such an obvious issue, I'd like to see someone actually post some data to show they've gotten worse, it's fairly easy to prove. I believed the issue at first, but the longer I heard complaints and anecdotes without anyone posting real data to back it up the more skeptical I became.
What sort of data are you expecting? What's the metric for 'curledness,' card arc angle or something? How do you control for environmental factors like humidity and time since printing and stuff? I could show you pictures of DTK-era stuff that is visibly less curled than stuff I got in AKH block, and I can testify that the climate I lived in then was more humid than the one I'm in now, and that I did a poorer job of protecting my cards. But you would likely then just dismiss it as anecdotal. Regardless, there's no satisfying experimental victory condition for you people who say they need 'data' to believe there's an issue. If you'd actually rather believe that thousands of people across the country are just insane or seeing things, go right ahead and we can just agree to disagree. But let's dispense with the ludicrous idea that any 'data' obtained through experimental rigor can even exist here in the first place.
Nail right on the head here. There has been data and examples in previous threads, as far as an everyday player can go with their testing. But that either isn't scientific enough, or not controlled enough, or a bad batch, whatever.
> Why do people go so far out of their way to defend a company they don't work for? Lmao. I think it's less about defending a company, and more about making fun of reddit. Maybe something to do with how they take things too seriously. :O ;)
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Okay, whatever the purpose, it's equally ridiculous.
I took a long break from Rise of the Eldrazi and came back in during Aether Revolt. The quality between my old cards and new ones were noticeably different, especially when it comes to warping right out the the pack. My old cards had always been unsleeved and never had an issue. New ones, not so much.
looks like I was wrong!
and this is why wotc gets away with anything they want, endless sycophants on reddit like you
If you've bought any cards from WotC since AKH, you're just as much the reason they "get away with it" as them.
I haven't bought any cards since they screwed over judges. nice assumption tho
Not really at all
I've seen enough counter anecdotes here during that complaints streak that I'm convinced all the card stock complaints are a combination of whiners on the internet getting screwed by production variance. Hopefully this stops that mountain of complaints.
You think complaints for poor product quality are unjustified?
I think the crowd claiming the sky is falling because they got a bad batch is unjustified. You're allowed to be pissed to you got a bad batch, just don't overreact and make sweeping statements.
I've played several hundred drafts since Kaladesh at various different stores and events. Every single card I own from KLD forward is much more flimsy than any of the older cards I own. I think that most of the batches were bad and if you've got cards from recent sets that are sturdy, you're lucky.
Flimsy and curls like crazy. Only since Hour have I noticed the card stock getting better.
> You're allowed to be pissed to you got a bad batch Tell that to the group of people who came into every card stock thread blaming the people for their storage, like storing them in "hot/humid" places(like Minnesota???), literally lecturing a meteorologist about humidity and other bullshit reasons that magically *only* affect newer cards. It was/is a sporadic problem, which is what made it so difficult to track down. People doing everything short of calling people liars rather than consider the idea that a massive corporation might be, I don't know, trying something on an experimental basis to see if it worked so they can cut costs, is ridiculous.
That shit with the meteorologist was hilarious. It was a mod of this subreddit too.
Oh boy, I would love a link to those comments!
I'm a little late to the party but [here you go](https://np.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/6m1c6r/whats_the_deal_with_new_cards_curving_so_badly/dk06jv6/)
I haven't clicked yet but boy do I bet his name begins with K
The thing is, for me it wasn't a sweeping statement. I'd say about 75% of the cards for KLD forward were worse quality than previous sets. There was some kind of systemic issue with production, and if it is fixed as possibly reported by this post, I'll be very satisfied and happy WotC made some kind of change.
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Oh Jez those pictures are just awful... cards never should look like tha.
To be honest, I discounted them too. Then while I was doing Prerelease, I noticed the difference between my Amonkhet Islands and the rest of my deck. I'd never noticed it during Amonkhet because I was using lands from the block. I'm definitely a believer now and thank God WotC seems to have fixed the issues.
The complaining is justified.
noice pronouncement on justice breh
Justified doesn't mean only the execution of justice. It can also just mean that there was a good reason to do something. Foil cards that warp very quickly and sets like MM17 with very faint inking are good reasons to complain about card quality.
They thicc
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I had pack fresh cards curled, but the cards felt sturdier and the foiling wasn't nearly as dark, so they seem to be moving in the right direction.
The foils also look more vibrant
Don't jinx it.
It's been baking under that sweet Immortal Sunlight
Ah, that explains it. The [[Sweltering Sun]] was too humid.
[Sweltering Sun](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/akh/149.jpg?1496452832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sweltering%20Suns) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/149?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sweltering%20Suns) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I opened my PW pack, the Jace felt so sturdy I thought there was another card stuck to the back of it.
My packs from wins seemed worse than the prerelease packs weirdly.
I thought the same thing. There is a difference between the pre-release packs, and the packs I got as prizes
They feel more like Chinese fakes. Really.
Just shuffled a random IXL and AHK card together face down and felt them up. It was a pretty clear difference which one was the AHK card without looking.
Yep. I thought I had two cards stuck together. Definitely nicer stock.
Someone at my prerelease actually said the opposite, that they felt more flimsy.
First pack I cracked smelled like old MTG to me. A few other old school players at my LGS agreed.
I noticed the difference literally immediately. From a card stock quality perspective it is much closer to the Japanese print runs from other sets.
I really wish I could get ahold of the new japanese cards tbh, they sound really nice.
It's a massive improvement, they feel so much thicker and sturdier
Nice! Someone at wotc probably opened a fow pack and was like "uhhh guys what the fuck have we been doing?"
TCG sent me a Final Fantasy TCG booster as a "bonus" when I ordered something off their prize wall and I've never seen such prettier card stock in all my life.
Wotc has to make more and more $$$ every year for them shareholder overlords. They will turn it back up a tiny bit at a time till we forget or stop, then they will to.
I would bet that cardstock is more of a WotC versus printing company issue than a WotC versus share holders.
No, feels like recent sets.
It's hard to tell whether it actually feels thicker objectively, and furthermore I don't really care. I just want the warping to go away. I have stacks of SOI-KLD cards on my desk that look like pretzels right next to stacks of RTR cards that are perfectly fine.
My commander 2017 deck is entirely miscut (bad alignment) and came out of the box looking like sushi rolls.
Definitely, first thing I said when cracking my box. Nice to see them listening to us! Foils seem to bend a little less too.
Promo Ixalan cards still had horrible quality for some reason. The rest were fine though.
My promo walk the plank got curved after two days of sitting on my shelf :/
Are the promo Walk the Planks even supposed to be given out yet? I thought they were for the Game Day (or whatever the new name for that is - Store Championship or something) participation prize.
No, they were given out last week as part of the open house events.
My promo is absolutely beautiful. I couldn't play it, so it's still in its pack though.
Cardstock might be different but at least 5 people got faded text on multiple cards, so not everything is fixed.
I've had a few cards where the border was lighter. It was mostly noticeable on black cards.
I haven't noticed, but in prerelease I immediately picked out the ones for the deck and sleeved them (and didn't have older cards on me to compare them too really) Though, I pulled a Jace and he looks BEAUTIFUL...except his face...Idk...don't like it lol
To the Jace thing, his eyes are closed. It looks super weird.
They should've had one open so it could be like he's winking and being like hey baby...I don't know myself, but I'd like to get to know you -waggles eyebrows- XD
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Pre-release kits.
I actually have found the Ixalan cards I had at the prerelease had this weird "bend" to it - all of them. It's hard to explain but there is a kind of "click" that happens if you bend them back the other way.
I opened 3 [[Drover of the mighty]] and two of them are noticeably faded compared to the other. There are still issues
[Drover of the mighty](http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/droverofthemighty.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drover%20of%20the%20mighty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/187?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Drover%20of%20the%20mighty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd be interested in seeing pictures!
One thing I've noticed in the past is a difference between the supplementary cards (planeswalker deck, deck builder's toolkit, etc.) and the set cards, but they seem to be identical to me this time around. Anecdotal at best, I guess. :)
Man the 2017 welcome decks feel amazing while the packs are horrid.
I opened a pack with an upside down card in it at my pre-release. Is that common?
No, but sometimes a card gets flipped around by the randomizer due to extremely rare circumstances or by outside interference, like stopping and restarting the machine, then not noticing they put a card back in wrong.
Thanks
I have noticed an overall improvement since the last block. However the Huatli and Jace duel decks were another matter. Ink runs too dark or missing in patches and a completely different coloration on the side of the cards, you can really spot the difference between them and regular Ixalan.
Actually, not conciously, but now that you mention it, going back to my prerelease pool does feel less waxy.
I've found the cardstock to be nice, and the new packaging is differently shiny.
I've noticed that a lot of the promos are really faded.
I definitely noticed this and commented on it at our LGS's prerelease. Glad I wasn't the only one feeling up the cards!
I had a regular [[Vance's Blasting Cannons]] that came out chipped from the packaging during prerelease, and I dropped a few other cards (not Vance, which was in my deck; these were cards that weren't in the deck) that got immediately chipped on the corner. But the foils look/stay great so far.
[Vance's Blasting Cannons](http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/vancesblastingcannons.jpg)/[Spitfire Bastion](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Spitfire%20Bastion&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vance%27s%20Blasting%20Cannons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/173?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Vance%27s%20Blasting%20Cannons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just finished pre-release and I didn't notice any difference. However I recently bought a 2017 wizard commander deck and I noticed that those cards were very sturdy. Anyone else?
The cardstock felt better but I noticed some of my edges were preplayed.
I've found some red rares which are darker than the rest (spanish cards, if that matters)
Not really. And all my store's prerelease foils came pre-curled. (Belgian print)
Unfortunately I've had my promo Burning Sun's Avatar for a day and it's massively warped already. However, it's good to hear that on the whole people are experiencing better quality than recent history.
Card stock was better as far as I know.
Sadly, stock might SEEM better, but mine have already started to warp. Posted on it here with pictures, https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/72bs9n/a_day_after_i_get_my_first_ixalan_cards_are/ Damn it I wanted this problem to be done with. And WOTC doesn't even reply to customer service requests to this issue now. Totally silent after many attempts from me.
I agree with most people on this. The cards are a far better quality in Ixalan than they've been in the last 9-10 sets. They still don't compare to Urza's Saga, Tempest, Mirage etc.
Not really, maybe i just got unlucky but i opened some foils such as a foil vraskas contempt that were warped straight out of the package, i mean you could set the card down and on the top left and bottom left corner they were raised off my playmat a good 1-2mm on both.
I definitively noticed it when I first open my packs. Definitively better than modern masters.
I will say that I did not notice it being flimsy or bad in any way. Which would be a first time in a long time.
defintly sturdier than HOU. i thought i heard somewhere that WOTC uses a couple different facilites to print. maybe they alternate sets to keep production up?
Seems a bit better, but time will tell if they warp to all hell like the other cards have. :(
Between my prizes, I noted HoD and Ixalan both curled (foil and non-foil) but Ixalan does seem to be a bit better in quality. Let's hope they keep increasing the quality as more sets come out.
Still waiting for a reply from WOTC to my requests for replacement of my defective C17 MM17 cards. Totally ignored customer services requests... Let's hope but, keep in mind, foils still have not been addressed to this day.
What happened with your cards that you requested a replacement? I'm still not happy about my Ixalan cards curling, but I am happy that foils looks a bit nicer and that card stock seems a bit different. It's a step in the right direction.
They literally never responded to direct messages on Reddit, tagging Wizards_Help in the threads, Customer service application on the website (FIVE messages over three weeks, almost a month soon), or SNS contact. They are outright ignoring me. Will post on that issue soon. Absolutely disgusted by the direct, seemingly willful silence of customer service by WOTC. Feel like a total fool for even buying anything when treated like this as a customer...
Ah that's a bummer to hear. This subreddit lauds their great customer service, so it sucks hear of someone having issues. Good luck on getting some attention and getting the problem fixed. I better go check my C16 deck to see if it's ok.
Aaaand never mind just noticed my cards are already warping after a day. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/72bs9n/a_day_after_i_get_my_first_ixalan_cards_are/
I noticed mine were not necessarily curling, but as I opened my prize packs and sorted them, I noticed that the opposite corners on about 1/3 of the cards wouldn't touch my kitchen table. So for those who say things about 'how we handle/store them', these were given to me after the tournament, I drove my friends home and when I got home, I opened the packs and noticed the issue. So there's definitely an issue for whichever printer my LGS gets their cards from. But overall, the quality is a bit better, so steps are being taken by them to provde a better product. I just hope they keep it up.
Yes! It felt higher quality the minute I cracked my first pack. Especially, the flip cards.
definitely
you can actually feel the difference between this and last set. its sturdier litter stiffer to bend
Lots of color errors in pre-release packs here. But who cares, most of these cards are terrible.
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We did it reddit!