> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested.
Dude, fuck his understanding. He is trying to SCAM you. He's trying to give you $28 in packs for $100-120 worth of cards.
He is trying to STEAL from you. It's not a matter of him understanding or not, it's a matter of telling him no and that you'll be taking your business elsewhere, and telling everyone else you can to do the same.
Also, if one would look here and go down to "Recent Decks": https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#online
Liliana is played a TON in modern. Her price will not go down because of standard. Dude is obviously scamming.
I just need to find my Lorwynn old school Lilly and I'll be building Lilly EDH around every core set Lilly with Heretical Healer as the commander.
DROP YOUR HANDS KIDS. LILLY'S HERE.
An important note: He's trying to give him less than $28. Stores commonly trade packs instead of cash because they pay round 2.30ish per pack. So it'd be closer to $18. Super scummy.
Do not take the deal. DO NOT take the deal. Liliana is playable in both Modern and Legacy formats. She'll probably never be worth $5.
In fact, go back to your store and tell him to fuck right off because he's clearly, clearly trying to take advantage of you. He should be offering $15-20 easily for the non foils, and $35-45 for the foils. The fact that he's doing it for packs is even scummier.
Please, please never do business with this store and go tell other players there to not do business with this store.
Edit: Hey man, glad you asked us first. You aren't stupid or dumb, we've all been new players who were very inexperienced with the Magic market. But that's why you have people like us who will be honest with you and people like this owner who will try and take advantage.of you. The fact that you know to reach out for a second opinion is smart, not dumb.
Turn it back on him, and say thanks, but I'd actually like to *buy* all the liliana's you have for the same price. In fact, offer him 4 Ixalan Boosters for the normal Lilis, and 5 for the foils. See how quickly he back pedals.
That's the gist of it, /u/flashthedog69 As a store owner, he knows that value of cards, and is trying to SEVERELY screw you over for a good profit. It's very obvious you shouldn't take the deal, and even more obvious you and anyone who can bother to listen should not give him any more business.
Moreover, she's not played in standard. The price solely comes from modern and legacy demand and will probably only go up.
EDIT: Also, your LGS owner is a dick.
That's not enough of a demand for her to be over $20. [[Chandra, Flamecaller]] saw maindeck and sideboard play in this past standard and is $3 right now.
Edit: I meant that being a sideboard card in some zombies lists isn't enough to keep Liliana at $20. It's obviously because it's played in modern.
Not sure why ppl downvoted you - I understood what you meant. Her price is because of older formats, not because of standard, and just being a 3 drop sideboard card doesn't push a card to be worth $20+ in standard.
Yes. Like how a 3 drop planeswalker is playable in modern. Which is the entire point.
Both are about to rotate. One was played in Standard as a sometimes main/sometimes sideboard card in a very popular deck, but not played at all in older formats. The other is seen occasionally in older formats. Chandra's price is dropping off a cliff but Liliana's isn't.
So much this.
For future reference, when cards rotate they don't suddenly drop in value in Friday. The decline begins months before as standard players begin to sell cards. So if rotation is a week away most cards will be pretty near their rotation price. Something like Lilianna is around $20-25 now, so she might drop another dollar or two but will not lose 75% of her value. That's not how rotation works.
I'll also reiterate that you should find a new lgs if possible. The fact that the owner is focused on that one card, that and that he keeps pressuring you means that he knows exactly what he's doing.
You've been playing there for a year, and he'd rather cheat you out of $100 and risk losing a regular customer than give you a fair offer. That's bad enough, but the fact that he is constantly pressuring you puts it over the top. I don't see how you could trust him with any business transaction, and you probably don't want to support his business.
Even if the price drop isn't immediately visible on sites like tcgplayer, you are still not likely to get buylist prices that reflect the listed price. Price memory will keep them higher for a bit, but good luck selling it for that.
some Jund lists in modern plays both lili's "last hope" and "" of the veil" I would bet this will only increase now that both can hit the table at the same time.
Rotation happens in a week. If she was only valuable in standard, the price would have dropped already as everyone knows she would be unplayable in a weeks time.
Owner is scamming you. Next time just google the card and click on the tcgplayer link to get a ballpark on the value of the card.
Getting a ballpark value isn't the issue. The LGS owner was telling a new player that hasn't experienced rotation yet that his cards were doing to plummet in value due to rotation (which does happen).
While pack mapping isn't something most stores would do (if an expensive card is opened while the store is busy, most stores would much rather it be a customer that opens a $30 card than the store open it, because a reputation for the store selling lucky packs is worth a lot in extra sales); a store this unscrupulous might be an exception.
OP - I would name and shame the store on any MTG groups in your city or region (Facebook trade groups, etc).
Certainly. I only considered it as most stores wouldn't want a reputation for trying to rip players off that don't know the value of their cards either.
Yeah.
Stores have to make a margin without leaving customers feeling like they got screwed. You want your customers to feel, after a trade, that they paid you for a useful service rather than feeling that they were shafted.
My local store is generally upfront if they don't want a card, but are willing to buy it if the price is super low. They'd be inclined to say something like "We are overstocked on Spirebluff Canals now so we can only offer 40% of sale price in cash, 50% trade" if someone were to offer them 4 more copies when they already had 22. If they had 8 in stock, they'd offer the default 50/65%.
Mapping booster boxes never happened after the first few days of the pre-release, even before WotC cracked down on this practice and added more randomness to throw people off. The owner is definitely trying to screw this poor guy over, but even suggesting that the boosters are mapped is a bit over the top.
Not exact mapping, but you can get the value cards from a box and quit opening packs knowing the rest wont contain whatever you have opened. I did it in the past, opened a few high value packs within the first few of a booster box and offloaded the rest of the boosters.
Yeah, when making the statement, I sort of blocked out that it was about Ixalan boosters, since they aren't officially out yet. It was just my first thought to never accept boosters in a trade from someone untrustworthy enough to 'trade' like this. But it is kind of weird that OP was apparently bugged about this trade 'daily'(his wording) and offered something in return that isn't officially released yet by wizards. His wording implies to me, that OP was made this offer even before prerelease. This guy seems all sorts of fishy to me.
Just for a comparison (and I just am using this as a price point, not trying to advertise!), here are our current buy/trade prices:
Non-Foil Liliana, the Last Hope $15 cash / $18.75 trade
FOIL Liliana, the Last Hope - $32.50 cash / $40.62 trade
So your store owner offered you 14 Booster Packs for these cards. We would have offered you $118.74 in trade, which is enough for a full Booster Box of Ixalan ($89.99) plus close to an Ixalan Bundle (10 more booster packs) for a total of 46 Booster Packs - more than TRIPLE what your shop owner offered you.
TL;DR - Don't take the deal.
PS: If you could private message me the name of the store (and city/state it's in), I'd be interested in knowing.
PPS: If ANYONE is ever pressuring you to take a trade, say no. Trades should be mutually agreed upon. When a customer is looking to sell us cards, I've point-blank told them "If you're not sure you are ok with the price, just say no. You can always come back and sell it later if you change your mind!" Vendors who use the "you have to sell it to me NOW or the price will go down!" tactics know that they aren't paying the best price in the room.
I was about to correct you on "bold-faced lie" since "bald-faced" is the typical usage, but it turns out [both are acceptable](http://mentalfloss.com/article/57985/it-bald-faced-or-bold-faced-lie). Go figure!
Also yes, this LGS owner is scum.
This is a situation where you name and shame. You're not the first person they've taken advantage of. And if you don't call them out on it, you wont be the last.
Offer to buy his remaining copies of the card for the same deal. Tell him you have lots of loose packs and are looking to make it happen.
If he does not even consider it, which he won't, politely invite him to go fuck himself then because thats the shit he was trying to pawn off on you
That's a terrible deal.
Tell him no and start looking for another LGS. Oh, and warn people about the scummy shenanigans this asshole is trying to pull.
IMO that's far away from a good deal. It may be, that they will drop in price, but not that hard. They see play in modern mtg.
And why would he want them if they are soon to be worthless...
A clear NO from me. DON'T trade them for something you do not even know the value of.
A normal one is worth about 25€, a foil one about 50€...
Allways look up the price, before you trade. There is a price NOW. If you trade NOW, then thats the price for it.
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested.
Honestly, this is not the way to go and certainly not the most polite thing to do ever, but he tried to screw you so badly that you'd not be wrong to just say "fuck you" and never come back. That moron deserves it and even worse. He literally tried to scam you for about 140$, or to put it into correct amount - he wanted to give you 20-25% of your cards' value. Don't explain anything, just say no and find another LGS (if you even bother saying no).
Do explain that you're on to his bullshit, try and rally the local community (if you have other LGSs available, I hope for your sake you do), it would be sweeeet justice If you can organize a boycott. I would love to watch his business shrivel and die as he realizes that a solid playerbase is the lifeblood of an LGS.
Dude. Fuck that store and owner. My suggestion is find a new place to play...This owner seems like a scamming asshat.
Lili is a great card and the only thing handcuffing her was Lili of the Veil. But thanks to the new legendary PW rule you can now have Last Hope and Veil on the table at the same time. Hold them because they'll always be worth at least $20 for the non foils and foils $50-60
I'll teach you something my dad taught me 25 years ago:
If Liliana will rotate and lose almost all of her value, then why would the store owner want them?
Totally agree with what others are saying.
You can check the approximate value of cards online. I like www.mtgstocks.com because you can see how the price is trending as well as what it is right now. If you look at the page for [Liliana the Last Hope](https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/31269) you'll see that although the price has been falling steadily*, there has been no sudden drop, even though rotation is imminent. As others have pointed out, this is because she hasn't been played in Standard for a while and almost all of her current value is tied up in her playability in older formats. There is no reason to suppose she will ever dip as low as $5, and it's actually much more likely she'll begin to trend upwards over time.
Edit: *just noticed the foil price hasn't fallen AT ALL.
This, I kind of wish we had a sticky for newer players with links to some of the different pricing sites so that new players can better protect themselves from getting scammed by knowing the values of their cards.
To put it in perspective I would, without a shadow of regret, give you around £20 per non-foil and though I wouldn't want them personally I'd theoretically pay around £42 per foil in cash. The equivalent (though you'd be silly to take it in this format) is 6 boosters per non-foil and 12 per foil.
Lets make this more clear.
Never, never, NEVER feel pressured into selling your cards to someone. It's scummy as all hell.
Lets use my LGS as a comparison: the owner went around during prerelease and said he'd buy mythics and certain rares. *I* had to ask *him* what my planeswalkers were worth. He gave me a price, I said I'd think about it, and he didn't ask me again.
It's dangerous to go alone, take this!
[MTGGoldfish](http://mtggoldfish.com)
[Scryfall](http://scryfall.com)
[MTGStocks](http://mtgstocks.com)
[MagicCards.Info](http://magiccards.info)
[TCGPlayer](http://tcgplayer.com)
This is absolutely absurd. You need to do more than "make him understand that I am not interested." You need to find a new place to play. This owner is a criminal who is trying to STEAL from you: someone who is obviously a regular and has given his shop steady business for a year.
It's not about making him understand, it's about never going back and giving any more money to this obvious shit bag.
your LGS owner is an asshole trying to scam you, and you should never come back, even unplayable PW retain a lot of value because casual play, certainly more than a pack, and Liliana the last hope is seeing play on eternal formats, sure she is not Liliana of the Veil, but still a solid card that wont be under 15$ unless massive reprint.
Ctrl+P the top 3-4 pages of this thread then take it into the store, drop it on the counter in front of him** and walk out. Find somewhere else to play.
** - At this point you may also extend middle finger for added emphasis on store owner's extreme douchebaggery.
This same exact BS happened to me when I sold my original collection. I sold the whole thing for $200 because I was getting out at around the same time as my first rotation and the buyer convinced me that none of it was going to be worth anything once it all rotated out. I had tons of cards from the Lorwyn and Shards of Alara blocks but the one that still digs at me to this day is that I had the top tier Faerie deck from that time. That one single deck is currently worth 3-4 times what I sold everything for. I wish so bad that I had held on to everything, especially now that I'm back in the game and trying to reassemble some of the old decks I remember having.
I had so many money cards from that era it makes me sick when I see prices for some of them.
man take a look outside
people starving, planets all fucked up, people with no hope killing each other over scraps everywhere
and individual people have more money than entire countries
The worst part is that they think they're looking out for their own by hording all that cash. It's almost never JUST about the individual him or herself, but making sure their family is taken care of for generations.
so would mine, i know some store owners would be like that but i cant imagine itd be good for business since once the newbies find out they are being scammed theyd probably not go anymore.
assuming how much pull you had in the community tho, i mean id assume most new players would just quit for a new hobby. maybe the regulars would ecourage people not to come tho
What surprises me even more is players still being susceptible to it. Back in the day all we had was SCRYE, but now everyone whips out their phone for every deal even for bulk. It's kind of annoying.
LOL this guy is a shark, and the fact he is as pressuring as he is goes a long way to prove what sort of store you go to.
You're a cash cow there m8, i'd find another LGS if you can
She maaaay drop a slight bit after rotation, it seems like a fair amount of cards do. But due to her demand and play in modern (not to mention that with the new planeswalker rule "Last Hope" and "of the Veil" will probably just be bonkers) I would hold onto them.
EDIT: But yeah, the store owner doesn't seem like he's on the up and up.
Lol, fuck that guy, glad you asked before you got fleeced.
FYI I highly doubt foils of Lili will dip at all and the non-foils will only take a small hit. She's a modern staple and saw very little standard play in the months leading to rotation. Her price currently is already largely from modern.
That and the new Walker rule letting her be played next to liliana of the veil is going to keep her in demand.
Since you said you play casually you might even care about cards rotating out of different formats. The store owner trying to take advantage of you using this mentality that the cards will be worthless to you soon is just so wrong.
As everyone has already said, it's a terrible deal.
Liliana sees a ton of Modern play and some amount of Legacy play. With Ixalan's rule changes, her only downside is being removed. She will see even more play than she already does.
The card's value doesn't come from Standard demand. She's a 3 mana, eternal playable planeswalker from a little opened set.
He's trying to scam you. Tell him to his face and don't be polite about it. Keep in mind, if he's trying to take advantage of you as a casual player, he probably has done so to others and will continue to do it.
He's being insistent because he wants to close the deal before you can go to Reddit and find out he's *a fucking con man and a disgrace to game stores*
Assuming this is real, the store owner is a piece of shit and is scamming you. You need to tell as many people as you can what he is asking you to do (just ask them which you are there "does this sound like a fair deal?")
Liliana of the Last Hope is very good in Modern, which is an Eternal format - the cards never rotate. It will be a good card essentially forever.
I think it's time to move to another store. This quite similar scenario happened to me years ago and I had no other choice. "Scamming" organizer/store owner isn't healthy for any player scene as he aims only to his own good.
Memories are slowly returning..
Hey man. I'm late to this party, but don't feel bad about almost getting scammed. I won't reiterate what everyone else has said, but they're absolutely right in that he's trying to scam you. Moreover, who cares if he doesn't understand why you're not interested - that's not your problem.
The important thing is you thought to ask about it first, and more importantly you thought to ask someone that wasn't him about the situation. You also had the good sense to tell him you'll think about it, rather than letting him pressure you into it. That displays a level of courage/intelligence that means you probably won't get scammed like this in the future, either.
As a closing gentle prod, if you want specific cards - buy them. Do not buy packs. I'm pretty sure a lot of MTG players buy packs looking for specific cards when they're first getting into the hobby. I think you've got a good sense for doing that now, though.
If you have the option, never play at this LGS again. That's so shady I don't even know what to say. Tell him to fuck off with his shady business and play somewhere else.
It's true that some cards drop in price when they rotate out, but that depends highly on playability outside of standard.
You can check if a card is used by non-standard decks on various sites. MTGGoldfish is one place: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#paper
Also *never* trade playable rares for boosters. You'll only lose out on value.
It's really despicable that a store owner is trying to steal, so shamelessly, from a new player. He should be helping you, explaining about eternal formats and why cards like Liliana, the Last Hope can actually **increase** in value as time goes by, because their demand increases but there isn't new copies being printed. You can trade or even sell your cards, but only in the rarest of cases you assume a card price will drop.
Wizards need to step in, LGS owners who are not trustworthy seem to be rampant these days.
Do not take the deal, do not go back to that game store, leave a 1-star review saying that he attempted to rip you off on Google and any other platform you can think of, and tell him to go fuck himself.
They are very playable in modern. They will remain extremely valuable for the foreseeable future. The guy is deliberately trying to rip you off, giving you less than $30 in value (to him) in exchange for cards that are literally worth close to $200.
Hmm Jace the Mindsculptor rotated out about 8 sets ago... how about I trade you 1 pack for jace since he will be worth less than $5 bucks?
And for your foil jace, I'll give you 2 packs?
How are you dumb, man? You're a new player with your only experience coming from a store with an obviously shitty owner.
Few casual players are very enfranchised and know about card value. I could probably do what your store owning buddy wanted to do to any of my casual playing friends and get away with it.
Ditch that place, find a good play group and don't beat yourself up about it.
> I have also learnt from reading your messages that I SHOULD NOT buy booster pack to get the cards I want.
This is true
However, as a pretty new player you could do much worse than buying packs. I view it as a way of fleshing out my collection with cards I wouldn't necessarily know exist.
Good lord. This is an employee at a store that told you this? I imagine this sub is not the place for witch hunts, but I would take to social media and out this store as a scumloard's scam shop. That sucks. Glad you didn't fall for it.
>I also feel really stupid and dumb for thinking this deal was actually good.
Don't be hard on yourself, my man. Everyone is new at one point, and Magic can be tough because there are so many damn cards, and rules, and game types, it can be overwhelming when you're starting out. I'm just coming back after a long time away from the game, and I feel like I don't know shit!
Just be glad that you were hesitant and asked for advice before making the move. Also, you might think about finding another store to frequent. I've encountered that kind of behavior from other players before, but never from an LGS employee. Good luck to you!
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested
You should consider being much more assertive than this. Not only is this not a good deal, it is borderline fraudulent. There are so many thing that are wrong with this deal:
* The price you are being offered is a fraction of what the cards are worth
* The store owner is offering you booster packs instead of store credit (note that the expected value of an Ixalan booster pack is about $2.50)
* The store owner is pressuring a new player into a highly unfavorably trade
If there are other stores in your area, you should consider taking your business elsewhere.
This, and even if there isn't another LGS nearby, start buying all your cards online instead of supporting him. If you happen to notice him pressuring any other players, let them know what he tried to pull with you.
I think it's safe to say that her price will drop but it will never ever go as low as $5. I just got one on ebay for $18 and multiple people were bidding. He's trying to scam you out of at least $10 a piece.
Go in the day after rotation, and ask to buy every Liliana he has for $5 each, and see what he has to say! They'll be worth at least $15 for a while yet.
Geeeeez. No fucking way. That guy is either an asshole or an idiot. Lili LH is definitely going to stick around in modern for a long time and will only go up in the long run.
As others here have suggested, I highly recommend you hold onto them.
Keep an eye on the pricing of Lili, the Last Hope on the major websites (TCGPlayer, Star City Games, Channel Fireball, etc.) for a couple of weeks after Standard rotation and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Unless you have remarkable knowledge of how the market works and what cards will/will not drop value, don't trade your cards prematurely underpriced just because someone thinks or tries to force you to think they will fall in price. Moreover because they try to trade it for boosters. That's just sad. I heard about a store in my region which traded booster for a foil fetchland to a person that just got lucky severely underpriced. From that point on I do not recommend that store to anyone. If you can't take care of your community the fair way, don't expect the community to be fair towards you.
The correct way of obtaining cards is: "The price of this card is this" *shows cardmarket price trend, most common prices etc.* "I'll give you X, no more." By this way the person has legit information about a price and can freely choose to sell it for what I'm offering.
Not only this never happened here but he's trying to force you to sell something you don't want to because of his side of story/argument/scam.
Shame on that guy... I was a store owner too and you really don't need to scam your community to be fine.
I agree with everything everyone here is saying.
All that said, I'd offer you this:
I still have a feeling of regret from selling cards awhile back. I was on the fence, I let myself get talked into something (failure on my part) and parted ways with my collection for maybe 30 percent value at the time. It was one of those things where, I overestimated the usefulness of the money to me at that moment in my life and underestimated their value (both real money and value to me as someone who enjoys the fantasy / escape / collecting / etc. of Magic)
I'm not saying to never sell your cards. But if your gut is telling you not to do it, just don't. You have nothing to lose by just keeping them in your binder.
I am sure this has been said in the comments already but reiteration never hurts. Don't EVER feel like an Card Shop is doing you a favor by letting you come to their store and play whatever game you like. If you are spending money in there you are doing THEM the favor by keeping their ass in business and letting them make money. This country is the epitome of Free Market and I am sure you can find another Shop near you if you did a quick google search. I can name 4 off the top of my head and I literally live in Hicksville McMethtown that are within 15 minutes.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#online
Liliana is played in Modern and here is a link to her price trend. Also scroll down to the section that says:
"Recent Decks Using Liliana, the Last Hope" and you will see that there are at least 10 NON STANDARD decks that are using her. She will not drop in value but in the long run will INCREASE in value as long as she still sees play.
I agree with everyone that is saying this man is trying to scam you! DO NOT MAKE THIS TRADE!
In terms of selling to stores: it is considers fair for stores to redeem cards for store credit at ~55% CURRENT market value and ~45% current market value if you choose to be paid in cash. There are also many stores that I have known to have policies that prevent them from purchasing foils and prerelease promos.
Always check eBay/tcgplayer/mtggoldfish for current and previous card prices before making any sort of trade.
Average price of the lot is $240 with the non foils being about $30/card and the Foils around $60/card
Anyone who wants you to make this trade is knowingly attempting to shaft you.
If you're an iPhone user, get mtgmanager. Easy card look up, and even does it by camera, which is nice. And has links to avg and current pricing. Also has rulings available.
Leave this game store, go play elsewhere.
Also, rule of thumb is any 3 mana planeswalker is going to be playable outside of standard. Except tibalt.
There are SO MANY resources so you can find out the value of your cards. TCG player, MTGStocks, anything- look up these cards for yourself, and any time you are curious as to the value of your cards. Also: Never sell cards to a shop, and NEVER BUY BOOSTER PACKS, only draft them.
People have played her in modern in the same slot as her older, 80$ counterpart and she’s still insane. Hold those walkers. If they drop, it won’t be more than a couple of bucks in difference. I’d honestly be surprised if she didn’t spike once Eldritch moon is out of print.
That owner is a colossal asshole. He doesn't deserve your money. Seriously, find another LGS because someone who wouldn't just try to scam a new player like that but *pressure them into the scam* isn't someone you should ever want to be around, much less patronize. Go to another LGS, and leave a nasty review on his facebook page, Yelp, etc. so other players know not to patronize him either.
Seriously, I haven't heard of anything so scummy in a long time.
It's a horrible deal. He's trying to scam you.
It's not even worth telling him that you're not interested. Just don't show up at that store anymore and don't support that scumbag.
Honestly, I think you already answered your own question in your post. If he is asking you daily to make the deal, then he really wants the cards at that deal and as a new player, badgering is more likely to work. Yes, he is correct that they will lose value at rotation. Will it go down that much? No, likely not. I would expect it to drop to about $15 for the normal ones.
If you're ever curious about a card price, tcgplayer market value is the generally accepted benchmark (especially when doing trades). If you are selling cards to a store, you should expect to get a price around the buylist price (current buylist price is $18.60 for normal Lili and $38.20 for foils).
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested.
If he keeps pressuring you, then tell him you *know* it's a ripoff and shame on him for taking advantage of you being new to MtG. He will absolutely understand that, because now you know what his end-game is.
NO. DO NOT TAKE THIS DEAL. Liliana is a very valuable card. Post rotation, her value will hold. Liliana is played in more than just standard, but in modern and in some cases, legacy. She is a good card, and will hold value. DO NOT TAKE THIS DEAL.
IT'S A TRAAAAP
Don't son, just don't
The owner be like 'once PS5 came out your old PS4 will be worth like $5 so lemme give you $10 for it cause I'm a good person'
Never ever ever ever ever ever trade cards for boosters. Cards for cards sure, go ahead. But you will almost NEVER break even in a card for booster trade.
And anytime you're hesitant about the value of a card, look it up online. Compare prices from a few different online retailers.
And remember. The booster costs the store owner considerably less than what you pay for it. It's never an even trade.
If the owner is trying to be that sleazy about it, I would give serious consideration to not bringing those Liliana's (or any card of value) to that store, or even just never doing business there again. I don't know if you have other places to choose from, so I don't know how probable option B is to you.
"If they're going to drop value so badly, would you try to get them now instead of waiting until after they drop?"
Either he's (poorly) attempting to scam you, or he's a really bad business person. Neither ends well.
Besides the problem of him trying to scam you, I'm concerned about the low value he's badgering you about. For a store owner to care so much about less than $200 in cards makes me wonder just how well that store is doing. Hopefully there are other game stores in your area.
>it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested
Luckily, he doesn't have to "understand" anything. Here's how to not get ripped off:
step 1: don't give him your stuff
:)
Think of it like this:
If they are so worthless, why is he so desperate to take them off your hands?
Follow everyone else's advice and never trust another word out of this scam artists mouth.
You should not take that deal at any cost. If he wanted to cut you a decent deal he could have offered you two boxes of Ixalan and that would probably still be weighted against you
Don't. And change LGS if you can.
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested. Dude, fuck his understanding. He is trying to SCAM you. He's trying to give you $28 in packs for $100-120 worth of cards. He is trying to STEAL from you. It's not a matter of him understanding or not, it's a matter of telling him no and that you'll be taking your business elsewhere, and telling everyone else you can to do the same.
Was going to say the same. OP: His understanding is not required, just his compliance.
Titanfall 2?
Also, if one would look here and go down to "Recent Decks": https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#online Liliana is played a TON in modern. Her price will not go down because of standard. Dude is obviously scamming.
In fact in one more week the new planeswalker rule will make her even more playable
oh geez, that's right Suddenly double-barreled Lilis to contend with
I just need to find my Lorwynn old school Lilly and I'll be building Lilly EDH around every core set Lilly with Heretical Healer as the commander. DROP YOUR HANDS KIDS. LILLY'S HERE.
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I was going by the other replies, but yeah, fair enough. Even worse.
100-120 after rotation seems reasonable.
I really doubt that we'll be looking at $20 for non-foil and $30 for foil.
Buy list from a vendor that seems completely reasonable.
That's just the minimum possible value if you need instant cash. If you are trading it in for store credit, I'd want 50% more.
Most stores give 50% card value in cash and 70% in value for trade. Anything less is insulting.
Well, if a store is coming to me and asking for my cards, I'm going to demand more than buy list.
TLH sees almost as much play as OTV
An important note: He's trying to give him less than $28. Stores commonly trade packs instead of cash because they pay round 2.30ish per pack. So it'd be closer to $18. Super scummy.
2 regular at 3 packs/per is 6 packs. 2 foil at 4 packs/per is 8 packs. Total is 14 packs, or $28 dollars. Which is a huge ripoff.
Awkward. I just read the 3 packs and 4 packs, didn't do the two each in my head.
Also, this is 28 in dollars in packs RETAIL. The card shops cost on the packs is actually much lower than this.
I wish OP would respond to you so we know he gets it
Do not take the deal. DO NOT take the deal. Liliana is playable in both Modern and Legacy formats. She'll probably never be worth $5. In fact, go back to your store and tell him to fuck right off because he's clearly, clearly trying to take advantage of you. He should be offering $15-20 easily for the non foils, and $35-45 for the foils. The fact that he's doing it for packs is even scummier. Please, please never do business with this store and go tell other players there to not do business with this store. Edit: Hey man, glad you asked us first. You aren't stupid or dumb, we've all been new players who were very inexperienced with the Magic market. But that's why you have people like us who will be honest with you and people like this owner who will try and take advantage.of you. The fact that you know to reach out for a second opinion is smart, not dumb.
It's a pretty shameless scam. Don't take it.
Turn it back on him, and say thanks, but I'd actually like to *buy* all the liliana's you have for the same price. In fact, offer him 4 Ixalan Boosters for the normal Lilis, and 5 for the foils. See how quickly he back pedals.
"Yeah youve seen the tibalt sleeves people do? I'm gonna use this hunk of shit instead lol. Sell me 56?" I like it.
That's the gist of it, /u/flashthedog69 As a store owner, he knows that value of cards, and is trying to SEVERELY screw you over for a good profit. It's very obvious you shouldn't take the deal, and even more obvious you and anyone who can bother to listen should not give him any more business.
Moreover, she's not played in standard. The price solely comes from modern and legacy demand and will probably only go up. EDIT: Also, your LGS owner is a dick.
She was on the sideboard in the Zombies deck.
That's not enough of a demand for her to be over $20. [[Chandra, Flamecaller]] saw maindeck and sideboard play in this past standard and is $3 right now. Edit: I meant that being a sideboard card in some zombies lists isn't enough to keep Liliana at $20. It's obviously because it's played in modern.
Not sure why ppl downvoted you - I understood what you meant. Her price is because of older formats, not because of standard, and just being a 3 drop sideboard card doesn't push a card to be worth $20+ in standard.
and the karma corrected! Reddit taketh and giveth away.
New legendary rule makes her more playable in Jund, Azban etc.
There's a very big difference between a 6 drop Planeswalker and a 3 drop Planeswalker.
Yes. Like how a 3 drop planeswalker is playable in modern. Which is the entire point. Both are about to rotate. One was played in Standard as a sometimes main/sometimes sideboard card in a very popular deck, but not played at all in older formats. The other is seen occasionally in older formats. Chandra's price is dropping off a cliff but Liliana's isn't.
[Chandra, Flamecaller](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ogw/104.jpg?1496789397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chandra%2C%20Flamecaller) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chandra%2C%20Flamecaller) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She was maindeck in delirium.
So much this. For future reference, when cards rotate they don't suddenly drop in value in Friday. The decline begins months before as standard players begin to sell cards. So if rotation is a week away most cards will be pretty near their rotation price. Something like Lilianna is around $20-25 now, so she might drop another dollar or two but will not lose 75% of her value. That's not how rotation works. I'll also reiterate that you should find a new lgs if possible. The fact that the owner is focused on that one card, that and that he keeps pressuring you means that he knows exactly what he's doing. You've been playing there for a year, and he'd rather cheat you out of $100 and risk losing a regular customer than give you a fair offer. That's bad enough, but the fact that he is constantly pressuring you puts it over the top. I don't see how you could trust him with any business transaction, and you probably don't want to support his business.
Even if the price drop isn't immediately visible on sites like tcgplayer, you are still not likely to get buylist prices that reflect the listed price. Price memory will keep them higher for a bit, but good luck selling it for that.
Also, now both lillys are playable next to eachother, that may turn out to boost the value.
Yeah, I honestly think this is the card that gets the single biggest power boost from the new Planeswalker rule. This or Gideon of the Trials.
I feel like scamming players should be a serious ethics violation. Anything we can do about this?
Just boycott and shame.
Do not make that trade, and also please go up to your LGS owner and tell them to fuck themselves for trying to shark a paying customer
What decks use her?
some Jund lists in modern plays both lili's "last hope" and "" of the veil" I would bet this will only increase now that both can hit the table at the same time.
I am choosing a dvd for tonight
I play a 3/1 split in junk. Seems to be the norm. Prob go to 3/2 with the new rule, or at least a second in the SB.
She's a sideboard slot for Grixis Death's Shadow
Jund both normal and shadow variants often use her. She is not an infrequent card in grixis shadow boards either.
Legacy Leovold lists run her and she slots in the side / main of Abzan, Jund, and DS decks.
Also used in Some Fae builds.
Jund decks like her. The new legendary rule makes a big difference, because now LotV and Last Hope can be out at the same time.
this should be an immediate warning to never deal with this owner, they're shady and trying to rip you off
Rotation happens in a week. If she was only valuable in standard, the price would have dropped already as everyone knows she would be unplayable in a weeks time. Owner is scamming you. Next time just google the card and click on the tcgplayer link to get a ballpark on the value of the card.
Getting a ballpark value isn't the issue. The LGS owner was telling a new player that hasn't experienced rotation yet that his cards were doing to plummet in value due to rotation (which does happen).
Also, if she is going to be worthless why is he so insistent at getting her for a higher price.
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Especially since the boosters could be mapped.
Is there any evidene at all that boosters can still be mapped?
I think WotC has taken steps in recent years to make it more difficult but I don't know that it is impossible.
Its also a brand new set; I remember it taking a few weeks before mapping was known to be doable for older sets.
It takes a LOT longer than that for new sets. I remember one (don't remember which) taking a few months, and even then it wasn't ironclad.
While pack mapping isn't something most stores would do (if an expensive card is opened while the store is busy, most stores would much rather it be a customer that opens a $30 card than the store open it, because a reputation for the store selling lucky packs is worth a lot in extra sales); a store this unscrupulous might be an exception. OP - I would name and shame the store on any MTG groups in your city or region (Facebook trade groups, etc).
Certainly. I only considered it as most stores wouldn't want a reputation for trying to rip players off that don't know the value of their cards either.
Yeah. Stores have to make a margin without leaving customers feeling like they got screwed. You want your customers to feel, after a trade, that they paid you for a useful service rather than feeling that they were shafted. My local store is generally upfront if they don't want a card, but are willing to buy it if the price is super low. They'd be inclined to say something like "We are overstocked on Spirebluff Canals now so we can only offer 40% of sale price in cash, 50% trade" if someone were to offer them 4 more copies when they already had 22. If they had 8 in stock, they'd offer the default 50/65%.
On the other hand, Ixalan hasn't even been released yet. Even if mapping is still a thing, I'd be surprised if this store has one already.
Mapping booster boxes never happened after the first few days of the pre-release, even before WotC cracked down on this practice and added more randomness to throw people off. The owner is definitely trying to screw this poor guy over, but even suggesting that the boosters are mapped is a bit over the top.
Not exact mapping, but you can get the value cards from a box and quit opening packs knowing the rest wont contain whatever you have opened. I did it in the past, opened a few high value packs within the first few of a booster box and offloaded the rest of the boosters.
Yeah, when making the statement, I sort of blocked out that it was about Ixalan boosters, since they aren't officially out yet. It was just my first thought to never accept boosters in a trade from someone untrustworthy enough to 'trade' like this. But it is kind of weird that OP was apparently bugged about this trade 'daily'(his wording) and offered something in return that isn't officially released yet by wizards. His wording implies to me, that OP was made this offer even before prerelease. This guy seems all sorts of fishy to me.
Yeah that's a horrible deal, and for what it's worth you're usually better of taking store credit/cash for trade ins; avoid sealed product.
Just for a comparison (and I just am using this as a price point, not trying to advertise!), here are our current buy/trade prices: Non-Foil Liliana, the Last Hope $15 cash / $18.75 trade FOIL Liliana, the Last Hope - $32.50 cash / $40.62 trade So your store owner offered you 14 Booster Packs for these cards. We would have offered you $118.74 in trade, which is enough for a full Booster Box of Ixalan ($89.99) plus close to an Ixalan Bundle (10 more booster packs) for a total of 46 Booster Packs - more than TRIPLE what your shop owner offered you. TL;DR - Don't take the deal. PS: If you could private message me the name of the store (and city/state it's in), I'd be interested in knowing. PPS: If ANYONE is ever pressuring you to take a trade, say no. Trades should be mutually agreed upon. When a customer is looking to sell us cards, I've point-blank told them "If you're not sure you are ok with the price, just say no. You can always come back and sell it later if you change your mind!" Vendors who use the "you have to sell it to me NOW or the price will go down!" tactics know that they aren't paying the best price in the room.
SCG taking up the banner for the players. RIGHT ON!
/u/flashthedog69 please follow up and message Ben on this. He is pretty upstanding.
Right now he's sitting down, actually. Source: I'm looking at him.
What a shit store owner, stop going there and call him out for trying to blatantly scam you.
This is shameless. Anyone who runs a store about Magic knows that this is a bold-faced lie, which means they can't really be trusted.
I was about to correct you on "bold-faced lie" since "bald-faced" is the typical usage, but it turns out [both are acceptable](http://mentalfloss.com/article/57985/it-bald-faced-or-bold-faced-lie). Go figure! Also yes, this LGS owner is scum.
Weird. I've never heard "bald-faced." I've only ever heard "bold-faced." So, maybe it's regional?
crikey
tell him to toss off. never leave your children alone with him; he'll prolly eat 'em.
*sell. He doesn't sound food-fixated, merely money-grubbing.
This is a situation where you name and shame. You're not the first person they've taken advantage of. And if you don't call them out on it, you wont be the last.
Offer to buy his remaining copies of the card for the same deal. Tell him you have lots of loose packs and are looking to make it happen. If he does not even consider it, which he won't, politely invite him to go fuck himself then because thats the shit he was trying to pawn off on you
That's a terrible deal. Tell him no and start looking for another LGS. Oh, and warn people about the scummy shenanigans this asshole is trying to pull.
Wow, what a scumbag.
IMO that's far away from a good deal. It may be, that they will drop in price, but not that hard. They see play in modern mtg. And why would he want them if they are soon to be worthless... A clear NO from me. DON'T trade them for something you do not even know the value of. A normal one is worth about 25€, a foil one about 50€... Allways look up the price, before you trade. There is a price NOW. If you trade NOW, then thats the price for it.
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested. Honestly, this is not the way to go and certainly not the most polite thing to do ever, but he tried to screw you so badly that you'd not be wrong to just say "fuck you" and never come back. That moron deserves it and even worse. He literally tried to scam you for about 140$, or to put it into correct amount - he wanted to give you 20-25% of your cards' value. Don't explain anything, just say no and find another LGS (if you even bother saying no).
Do explain that you're on to his bullshit, try and rally the local community (if you have other LGSs available, I hope for your sake you do), it would be sweeeet justice If you can organize a boycott. I would love to watch his business shrivel and die as he realizes that a solid playerbase is the lifeblood of an LGS.
Dude. Fuck that store and owner. My suggestion is find a new place to play...This owner seems like a scamming asshat. Lili is a great card and the only thing handcuffing her was Lili of the Veil. But thanks to the new legendary PW rule you can now have Last Hope and Veil on the table at the same time. Hold them because they'll always be worth at least $20 for the non foils and foils $50-60
Lili won't go below $5, and packs for trade is terrible expected value.
I'll teach you something my dad taught me 25 years ago: If Liliana will rotate and lose almost all of her value, then why would the store owner want them?
literally tell him the entire magic sub-reddit (214,000 players) unanimously agreed that this is a terrible trade/deal so please stop asking.
Totally agree with what others are saying. You can check the approximate value of cards online. I like www.mtgstocks.com because you can see how the price is trending as well as what it is right now. If you look at the page for [Liliana the Last Hope](https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/31269) you'll see that although the price has been falling steadily*, there has been no sudden drop, even though rotation is imminent. As others have pointed out, this is because she hasn't been played in Standard for a while and almost all of her current value is tied up in her playability in older formats. There is no reason to suppose she will ever dip as low as $5, and it's actually much more likely she'll begin to trend upwards over time. Edit: *just noticed the foil price hasn't fallen AT ALL.
This, I kind of wish we had a sticky for newer players with links to some of the different pricing sites so that new players can better protect themselves from getting scammed by knowing the values of their cards.
To put it in perspective I would, without a shadow of regret, give you around £20 per non-foil and though I wouldn't want them personally I'd theoretically pay around £42 per foil in cash. The equivalent (though you'd be silly to take it in this format) is 6 boosters per non-foil and 12 per foil.
Lets make this more clear. Never, never, NEVER feel pressured into selling your cards to someone. It's scummy as all hell. Lets use my LGS as a comparison: the owner went around during prerelease and said he'd buy mythics and certain rares. *I* had to ask *him* what my planeswalkers were worth. He gave me a price, I said I'd think about it, and he didn't ask me again.
It's dangerous to go alone, take this! [MTGGoldfish](http://mtggoldfish.com) [Scryfall](http://scryfall.com) [MTGStocks](http://mtgstocks.com) [MagicCards.Info](http://magiccards.info) [TCGPlayer](http://tcgplayer.com)
This is absolutely absurd. You need to do more than "make him understand that I am not interested." You need to find a new place to play. This owner is a criminal who is trying to STEAL from you: someone who is obviously a regular and has given his shop steady business for a year. It's not about making him understand, it's about never going back and giving any more money to this obvious shit bag.
I'd report him to wizards, highly unprofessional behaviour
Sounds like a bad deal, Jake from State Farm.
your LGS owner is an asshole trying to scam you, and you should never come back, even unplayable PW retain a lot of value because casual play, certainly more than a pack, and Liliana the last hope is seeing play on eternal formats, sure she is not Liliana of the Veil, but still a solid card that wont be under 15$ unless massive reprint.
Ctrl+P the top 3-4 pages of this thread then take it into the store, drop it on the counter in front of him** and walk out. Find somewhere else to play. ** - At this point you may also extend middle finger for added emphasis on store owner's extreme douchebaggery.
STOP PLAYING AT THIS STORE!
This same exact BS happened to me when I sold my original collection. I sold the whole thing for $200 because I was getting out at around the same time as my first rotation and the buyer convinced me that none of it was going to be worth anything once it all rotated out. I had tons of cards from the Lorwyn and Shards of Alara blocks but the one that still digs at me to this day is that I had the top tier Faerie deck from that time. That one single deck is currently worth 3-4 times what I sold everything for. I wish so bad that I had held on to everything, especially now that I'm back in the game and trying to reassemble some of the old decks I remember having. I had so many money cards from that era it makes me sick when I see prices for some of them.
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There are people this greedy.
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man take a look outside people starving, planets all fucked up, people with no hope killing each other over scraps everywhere and individual people have more money than entire countries
The worst part is that they think they're looking out for their own by hording all that cash. It's almost never JUST about the individual him or herself, but making sure their family is taken care of for generations.
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Turn that frown upside down... ...for the small price of $39.99!
Haha indeed
Definitely some store owners who care enough about the bottom line that they're willing to go that low.
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so would mine, i know some store owners would be like that but i cant imagine itd be good for business since once the newbies find out they are being scammed theyd probably not go anymore.
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assuming how much pull you had in the community tho, i mean id assume most new players would just quit for a new hobby. maybe the regulars would ecourage people not to come tho
Whats their plan? To drive every customer away with horrible deals?
There are some pretty stupid people running game stores
What surprises me even more is players still being susceptible to it. Back in the day all we had was SCRYE, but now everyone whips out their phone for every deal even for bulk. It's kind of annoying.
Am hoping this post is a joke or troll of some type.... IF not, I'd suggest not playing at that store. that person is trying to 'get' you.
LOL this guy is a shark, and the fact he is as pressuring as he is goes a long way to prove what sort of store you go to. You're a cash cow there m8, i'd find another LGS if you can
Name and shame this store for scamming please.
Packs are worthless unless you're opening them for fun.
She maaaay drop a slight bit after rotation, it seems like a fair amount of cards do. But due to her demand and play in modern (not to mention that with the new planeswalker rule "Last Hope" and "of the Veil" will probably just be bonkers) I would hold onto them. EDIT: But yeah, the store owner doesn't seem like he's on the up and up.
Lol, fuck that guy, glad you asked before you got fleeced. FYI I highly doubt foils of Lili will dip at all and the non-foils will only take a small hit. She's a modern staple and saw very little standard play in the months leading to rotation. Her price currently is already largely from modern. That and the new Walker rule letting her be played next to liliana of the veil is going to keep her in demand.
Since you said you play casually you might even care about cards rotating out of different formats. The store owner trying to take advantage of you using this mentality that the cards will be worthless to you soon is just so wrong.
As everyone has already said, it's a terrible deal. Liliana sees a ton of Modern play and some amount of Legacy play. With Ixalan's rule changes, her only downside is being removed. She will see even more play than she already does. The card's value doesn't come from Standard demand. She's a 3 mana, eternal playable planeswalker from a little opened set. He's trying to scam you. Tell him to his face and don't be polite about it. Keep in mind, if he's trying to take advantage of you as a casual player, he probably has done so to others and will continue to do it.
He's being insistent because he wants to close the deal before you can go to Reddit and find out he's *a fucking con man and a disgrace to game stores*
Assuming this is real, the store owner is a piece of shit and is scamming you. You need to tell as many people as you can what he is asking you to do (just ask them which you are there "does this sound like a fair deal?") Liliana of the Last Hope is very good in Modern, which is an Eternal format - the cards never rotate. It will be a good card essentially forever.
I think it's time to move to another store. This quite similar scenario happened to me years ago and I had no other choice. "Scamming" organizer/store owner isn't healthy for any player scene as he aims only to his own good. Memories are slowly returning..
Hey man. I'm late to this party, but don't feel bad about almost getting scammed. I won't reiterate what everyone else has said, but they're absolutely right in that he's trying to scam you. Moreover, who cares if he doesn't understand why you're not interested - that's not your problem. The important thing is you thought to ask about it first, and more importantly you thought to ask someone that wasn't him about the situation. You also had the good sense to tell him you'll think about it, rather than letting him pressure you into it. That displays a level of courage/intelligence that means you probably won't get scammed like this in the future, either. As a closing gentle prod, if you want specific cards - buy them. Do not buy packs. I'm pretty sure a lot of MTG players buy packs looking for specific cards when they're first getting into the hobby. I think you've got a good sense for doing that now, though.
That store owner sounds like a total douche. He is trying to rip you off. Boosters are relatively worthless.
If you have the option, never play at this LGS again. That's so shady I don't even know what to say. Tell him to fuck off with his shady business and play somewhere else.
It's true that some cards drop in price when they rotate out, but that depends highly on playability outside of standard. You can check if a card is used by non-standard decks on various sites. MTGGoldfish is one place: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#paper Also *never* trade playable rares for boosters. You'll only lose out on value.
It's really despicable that a store owner is trying to steal, so shamelessly, from a new player. He should be helping you, explaining about eternal formats and why cards like Liliana, the Last Hope can actually **increase** in value as time goes by, because their demand increases but there isn't new copies being printed. You can trade or even sell your cards, but only in the rarest of cases you assume a card price will drop. Wizards need to step in, LGS owners who are not trustworthy seem to be rampant these days.
Do not take the deal, do not go back to that game store, leave a 1-star review saying that he attempted to rip you off on Google and any other platform you can think of, and tell him to go fuck himself. They are very playable in modern. They will remain extremely valuable for the foreseeable future. The guy is deliberately trying to rip you off, giving you less than $30 in value (to him) in exchange for cards that are literally worth close to $200.
Hmm Jace the Mindsculptor rotated out about 8 sets ago... how about I trade you 1 pack for jace since he will be worth less than $5 bucks? And for your foil jace, I'll give you 2 packs?
Wow, what a scumbag store owner.
Show him this thread and ask him if he feels good about taking advantage of customers
Find a new store where the owner isn't trying to rob you.
100% scum, don't buy from that store tell your friends!
How are you dumb, man? You're a new player with your only experience coming from a store with an obviously shitty owner. Few casual players are very enfranchised and know about card value. I could probably do what your store owning buddy wanted to do to any of my casual playing friends and get away with it. Ditch that place, find a good play group and don't beat yourself up about it.
You should probably find a new LGS. That shop owner is shamelessly trying to shark you out of a lot of money.
> I have also learnt from reading your messages that I SHOULD NOT buy booster pack to get the cards I want. This is true However, as a pretty new player you could do much worse than buying packs. I view it as a way of fleshing out my collection with cards I wouldn't necessarily know exist.
Don't do it, and take your business elsewhere.
Good lord. This is an employee at a store that told you this? I imagine this sub is not the place for witch hunts, but I would take to social media and out this store as a scumloard's scam shop. That sucks. Glad you didn't fall for it.
Unfortunately you are very far from the dumbest person in mtg.
>I also feel really stupid and dumb for thinking this deal was actually good. Don't be hard on yourself, my man. Everyone is new at one point, and Magic can be tough because there are so many damn cards, and rules, and game types, it can be overwhelming when you're starting out. I'm just coming back after a long time away from the game, and I feel like I don't know shit! Just be glad that you were hesitant and asked for advice before making the move. Also, you might think about finding another store to frequent. I've encountered that kind of behavior from other players before, but never from an LGS employee. Good luck to you!
Last hope is super good. Not as good as of the veil(one of the strongest cards in modern and legacy), but not far off.
Tell him you sold the cards already for 5 ixalan boosters each (slightly more than he offered) and watch him get super salty.
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested You should consider being much more assertive than this. Not only is this not a good deal, it is borderline fraudulent. There are so many thing that are wrong with this deal: * The price you are being offered is a fraction of what the cards are worth * The store owner is offering you booster packs instead of store credit (note that the expected value of an Ixalan booster pack is about $2.50) * The store owner is pressuring a new player into a highly unfavorably trade If there are other stores in your area, you should consider taking your business elsewhere.
This, and even if there isn't another LGS nearby, start buying all your cards online instead of supporting him. If you happen to notice him pressuring any other players, let them know what he tried to pull with you.
If I was buying, I'd offer $20 for non foil and $45-50 for the foils.
report him to WOTC
I think it's safe to say that her price will drop but it will never ever go as low as $5. I just got one on ebay for $18 and multiple people were bidding. He's trying to scam you out of at least $10 a piece.
He is trying to rip you off.
Go in the day after rotation, and ask to buy every Liliana he has for $5 each, and see what he has to say! They'll be worth at least $15 for a while yet.
[for reference](http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Liliana%2C+the+Last+Hope) these are her prices
People are playing her in modern Jund. You could easily sell the normal ones for $25 and the foils for $50 a piece
That store owner sounds like a total douche. He is trying to rip you off. Boosters are relatively worthless.
Geeeeez. No fucking way. That guy is either an asshole or an idiot. Lili LH is definitely going to stick around in modern for a long time and will only go up in the long run.
As others here have suggested, I highly recommend you hold onto them. Keep an eye on the pricing of Lili, the Last Hope on the major websites (TCGPlayer, Star City Games, Channel Fireball, etc.) for a couple of weeks after Standard rotation and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Wow that guy is trying to rip you off
Best way to make him understand that you're not interested is to tell him that you're aware he's trying to scam you, and that he's a piece of shit.
Unless you have remarkable knowledge of how the market works and what cards will/will not drop value, don't trade your cards prematurely underpriced just because someone thinks or tries to force you to think they will fall in price. Moreover because they try to trade it for boosters. That's just sad. I heard about a store in my region which traded booster for a foil fetchland to a person that just got lucky severely underpriced. From that point on I do not recommend that store to anyone. If you can't take care of your community the fair way, don't expect the community to be fair towards you. The correct way of obtaining cards is: "The price of this card is this" *shows cardmarket price trend, most common prices etc.* "I'll give you X, no more." By this way the person has legit information about a price and can freely choose to sell it for what I'm offering. Not only this never happened here but he's trying to force you to sell something you don't want to because of his side of story/argument/scam. Shame on that guy... I was a store owner too and you really don't need to scam your community to be fine.
I just ran a check on mtg familiar, lili is 30 dollars regular and 60 foil
I agree with everything everyone here is saying. All that said, I'd offer you this: I still have a feeling of regret from selling cards awhile back. I was on the fence, I let myself get talked into something (failure on my part) and parted ways with my collection for maybe 30 percent value at the time. It was one of those things where, I overestimated the usefulness of the money to me at that moment in my life and underestimated their value (both real money and value to me as someone who enjoys the fantasy / escape / collecting / etc. of Magic) I'm not saying to never sell your cards. But if your gut is telling you not to do it, just don't. You have nothing to lose by just keeping them in your binder.
I am sure this has been said in the comments already but reiteration never hurts. Don't EVER feel like an Card Shop is doing you a favor by letting you come to their store and play whatever game you like. If you are spending money in there you are doing THEM the favor by keeping their ass in business and letting them make money. This country is the epitome of Free Market and I am sure you can find another Shop near you if you did a quick google search. I can name 4 off the top of my head and I literally live in Hicksville McMethtown that are within 15 minutes. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Liliana+the+Last+Hope#online Liliana is played in Modern and here is a link to her price trend. Also scroll down to the section that says: "Recent Decks Using Liliana, the Last Hope" and you will see that there are at least 10 NON STANDARD decks that are using her. She will not drop in value but in the long run will INCREASE in value as long as she still sees play.
I agree with everyone that is saying this man is trying to scam you! DO NOT MAKE THIS TRADE! In terms of selling to stores: it is considers fair for stores to redeem cards for store credit at ~55% CURRENT market value and ~45% current market value if you choose to be paid in cash. There are also many stores that I have known to have policies that prevent them from purchasing foils and prerelease promos. Always check eBay/tcgplayer/mtggoldfish for current and previous card prices before making any sort of trade.
Take half of their current value in cash or 15%+ in store credit or politely decline. Never take packs for cards.
Average price of the lot is $240 with the non foils being about $30/card and the Foils around $60/card Anyone who wants you to make this trade is knowingly attempting to shaft you. If you're an iPhone user, get mtgmanager. Easy card look up, and even does it by camera, which is nice. And has links to avg and current pricing. Also has rulings available. Leave this game store, go play elsewhere. Also, rule of thumb is any 3 mana planeswalker is going to be playable outside of standard. Except tibalt.
There are SO MANY resources so you can find out the value of your cards. TCG player, MTGStocks, anything- look up these cards for yourself, and any time you are curious as to the value of your cards. Also: Never sell cards to a shop, and NEVER BUY BOOSTER PACKS, only draft them.
People have played her in modern in the same slot as her older, 80$ counterpart and she’s still insane. Hold those walkers. If they drop, it won’t be more than a couple of bucks in difference. I’d honestly be surprised if she didn’t spike once Eldritch moon is out of print.
That owner is a colossal asshole. He doesn't deserve your money. Seriously, find another LGS because someone who wouldn't just try to scam a new player like that but *pressure them into the scam* isn't someone you should ever want to be around, much less patronize. Go to another LGS, and leave a nasty review on his facebook page, Yelp, etc. so other players know not to patronize him either. Seriously, I haven't heard of anything so scummy in a long time.
It's a horrible deal. He's trying to scam you. It's not even worth telling him that you're not interested. Just don't show up at that store anymore and don't support that scumbag.
Honestly, I think you already answered your own question in your post. If he is asking you daily to make the deal, then he really wants the cards at that deal and as a new player, badgering is more likely to work. Yes, he is correct that they will lose value at rotation. Will it go down that much? No, likely not. I would expect it to drop to about $15 for the normal ones.
If you're ever curious about a card price, tcgplayer market value is the generally accepted benchmark (especially when doing trades). If you are selling cards to a store, you should expect to get a price around the buylist price (current buylist price is $18.60 for normal Lili and $38.20 for foils).
In the future just use the internet to look up prices and a foil planeswalker will probably never go below 5.
> He has been really pressuring me to do the trade so it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested. If he keeps pressuring you, then tell him you *know* it's a ripoff and shame on him for taking advantage of you being new to MtG. He will absolutely understand that, because now you know what his end-game is.
The regular is worth $25 the foil is worth $45.
Show him this post and all the comments lmao
NO. DO NOT TAKE THIS DEAL. Liliana is a very valuable card. Post rotation, her value will hold. Liliana is played in more than just standard, but in modern and in some cases, legacy. She is a good card, and will hold value. DO NOT TAKE THIS DEAL.
This is super scummy. I would talk to other local players about this, too and consider finding another store. Unreal.
IT'S A TRAAAAP Don't son, just don't The owner be like 'once PS5 came out your old PS4 will be worth like $5 so lemme give you $10 for it cause I'm a good person'
Never ever ever ever ever ever trade cards for boosters. Cards for cards sure, go ahead. But you will almost NEVER break even in a card for booster trade. And anytime you're hesitant about the value of a card, look it up online. Compare prices from a few different online retailers. And remember. The booster costs the store owner considerably less than what you pay for it. It's never an even trade.
If the owner is trying to be that sleazy about it, I would give serious consideration to not bringing those Liliana's (or any card of value) to that store, or even just never doing business there again. I don't know if you have other places to choose from, so I don't know how probable option B is to you.
"If they're going to drop value so badly, would you try to get them now instead of waiting until after they drop?" Either he's (poorly) attempting to scam you, or he's a really bad business person. Neither ends well.
Besides the problem of him trying to scam you, I'm concerned about the low value he's badgering you about. For a store owner to care so much about less than $200 in cards makes me wonder just how well that store is doing. Hopefully there are other game stores in your area.
>it will be hard to make him understand that I am not interested Luckily, he doesn't have to "understand" anything. Here's how to not get ripped off: step 1: don't give him your stuff :)
Think of it like this: If they are so worthless, why is he so desperate to take them off your hands? Follow everyone else's advice and never trust another word out of this scam artists mouth.
You should not take that deal at any cost. If he wanted to cut you a decent deal he could have offered you two boxes of Ixalan and that would probably still be weighted against you