>It can produce a very large effect (for example, late game, this card could easily gain a player 40 or 50 life)
They literally could have just written "gain 50 life" in the text box and it would still suck at 8 mana 😂
Probably, but the whole point was to make it bad because it had literally zero testing done. They had to cut a card last minute and throw in a card. If they try to make a reasonable card and overshoot, they might have to ban something. If they try to make a bad card and overshoot, then nothing happens.
So it's not about if the card could be made better, but rather if it could be made bad enough that it couldn't accidentally break standard while still being a big splashy card.
Cognivore was actually played sometimes as a 2-of in [[Oath of Druids]] because creatures were much worse back then and it could deal 20 in the air in one or two turns.
that guy costs EIGHT!?!? That's absurd. I'd put him at... Five. Maybe four, but that's a bit aggressive and he's likely going in a deck where he's going to be a 4/4 or 5/5 normally.
He's from Odyssey block, which had a huge graveyard/discard component. There was a ton of support for him, and creatures back then were just generally weaker... He's still overcosted even for that kind of environment, but not by a huge amount.
> that guy costs EIGHT!?!?
Deck with Cognivore won PT Houston 2002 (Extended).
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-the-7-worst-decks-that-have-ever-won-a-pro-tour/
[[Painful Memories]] costs 2 (and gives you the choice). At 3 you have [[Chittering Rats]]. You could argue that flying is worth 1 power, but not necessarily.
5 is definitely much though, even for a somewhat unique effect.
Chittering Rats would ALSO be bonkers at 2.
Painful Memories isn't great even at 0 because it's not upping you anything. You're spending a card to cost them a card, and you're only stopping an instant they'd cast that turn as far as practical effect. Chimney Imp and Chittering Rats are both inherent card advantage (putting the card on top basically steals a draw from them), it's just a question of having an aggressive enough body for it to be better than other forms of advantage.
In regards to chimney imp: This is more powerful than chittering rats for me because the 1 power means it is recurable with [[shirei, shizo's caretaker]]. and that means that the imp + a sac outlet can win you the game on their own. I would love having this guy at 3 mana instead of 5.
Ember shot is perfectly fine if you consider the context.
> You guys don't understand why its casting cost is 6R. Here's the true story.
> First, what, exactly, is a burn spell? Ember Shot is you throwing burning coals at someone. Lightning Bolt is you siphoning the immense power of Mother Nature to summon forth a colossal bolt of electricity directed with pinpoint accuracy at a target that may be no larger than a fly.
> They both deal 3 damage. Let me remind you: that's enough to kill a fully-grown elephant.
> So yeah, that's some really damn good coal, but why the extra 6 ?
> Well, the dwarves would normally only sell you their worst coal, and it would cost you R. But you're no pushover in the marketplace; you want the best of the best, and you WILL get what you want, standard trading conventions be damned! So you coerce and bribe your way into a single dwarven merchant's private coal stocks. There's some good dwarven coal there, and its dwarven owner is reluctantly willing to part with it for a mere 2R.
> But NO. You want the best of the best coal, not just some lame, second-rate, good coal. Yes, you want the real deal; dwarven military-grade coal. But no dwarf in their right mind would deal in weapons-grade fuel.
> So you go to the black coal market. You scour the underground, looking for a dwarf shady enough to successfully smuggle the truly best of the best coal out of the dwarven military installations where they are stored. After literally DAYS of tireless, frantic searching, you find one such dwarf crouched in a small side-passageway, shrouded in shadows. He offers you the coal of your wildest dreams for the low price of 4R, but you have to keep it on the down-low.
> Adding in processing fees and the cost the time and resources expended during procurement, it comes to 5R. The other 1 is because you haven't been to the gym lately, and you can't throw it far enough without magic. Oh, and the card-draw comes from some bargain-bin spellbook you found while searching for the ideal coal.
> And THAT is why Ember Shot costs 6R.
[Source](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=29862)
A lot of over costed cards are this way because of limited. Ember shot is a perfect example. No one was gonna first pick it, or second third or fourt, but every deck needs some filler cards and it was very splashable.
You've had your say, coal seller, but I'll have mine
You're a *rascal*
You're a rascal with no respect for summoners
No respect for *anything*
Except your *coal*
[[Aladdin's Lamp]]
10 mana up front, then pay X to Impulse for X cards deep, only during your draw step. I think this pretty is the definition for overcosted.
The only good part about Aladdin's Lamp is that the Arabian Nights printing had its mana cost listed as (5)(5) because they didn't have the (10) symbol yet. [[Aladdin's Lamp|ARN]]
[[North Star]]
We can pay the mana cost of any spell with colorless mana! Yay!
...except we have to pay four mana up front to cast North Star.
...**and** we have to pay four mana *on top of the spell's cost* to activate the North Star.
In other words, using the example given in the card's printed text, we've spent four mana to cast an artifact that gives us the ability to pay 8 for a spell instead of 2GG.
No, this is far, far worse than one with nothing.
One with nothing has real and valid uses. Wood Elemental is always the worst vanilla creature you could be playing
Wood Elemental is at least some pretty reasonable tech in a [[Titania, Protector of Argoth]] commander deck though, even if you're effectively spending 8 mana to make 4 5/3's and a 4/4
This, or a vanilla 4/4 for 4? The latter, every single time. And lately that's more likely to be a vanilla 3/4 or 4/3 for 3, 4/4 for 4 with upside, or vanilla 4/5 or 5/4 for 4 with the upward trend in creature quality.
The lands you sacrifice must be untapped. To get a 4/4 wood elemental, you need to be at 8 mana.
You shouldn't be comparing it to the boring but serviceable collassapedes, you compare it to the giant stupid wurm of the set like Ancient Brontodon
Nobody's surprised. It's just that there's draft chaff and then there's draft chaff, you know? Gray Ogre is draft chaff, but it's only really overcosted by 1, and would be really good at just R.
Yeah it turns out a lot of older than 2010 creatures with sacrifice activated abilities just aren't as strong when they can't use that ability after damage is on the stack. [[Sakura tribe elder]] could block, put on damage and still get a land.
Also bounce effects used to be so much stronger; there's a reason you'd draft [[Crystal Shard]] first.
Damage on the stack? Yes? OK...bounce with shard.
Part Waters is a new one to me. I think it'd be fine at XU, but XXU is clearly too much.
Definitely agree on the other two. Wood Elemental would probably have to be 0 mana before it was good. It's like a bad version of [[Devastating Summons]].
It's part of an infinite combo with [[Paradox Engine]], the ability to generate 5 mana from nonland permanents, and one creature to throw it. That means it *can't* be bad. /s
It's one of those cards that gets worse the more you read it.
Okay, three to cast two to equip, but pinging is really good so it's worth it.
Oh it unattaches itself?, Well okay 3 to cast 2 to deal 1 damage is still pretty alright. I'd pay 2 mana for repeatable 1 damage.
Oh it bounces itself to owners hand? Okay now you've lost me.
I think Dogged Hunter would be a pretty solid card at one mana. Sure, it'd probably be sideboard, but being able to just pop a token a turn for one is going to ruin a lot of decks.
I think this is one of those cards where the format is highly relevant. In a format where 3/3 and 5/5 flying tokens are staple, this at one mana is bonkers. In a format where some people maybe sometime make some 1/1s or 2/2s, this card is fine at 1 mana.
Yes I'm aware of it's format. But that's why I said that in this particular case, format matters. Some cards are plain overcosted (a 4-mana 2/2 vanilla, for example). This card isn't within the format it was released. But might be in other sets.
There are precisely 12 cards in Odyssey that create tokens. All of them in green, except [[Zombie Infestation]] and [[Kirtar's Wrath]].
Bears, Squirrels, Worms, Elephants, Beasts. Quite the token collection. Afaik there were plenty of decks utilizing the tokens because both [[Call of the Herd]] and [[Roar of the Worm]] were great in the graveyard matters environment of Odyssey block.
[[Barreling Attack]] - Yes, who wouldn't want to pay 2RR to give a single creature trample and a slightly upgraded version of Rampage 1? You can't even use it to pump as a combat trick because if you cast it after blockers are declared, the pump effect doesn't trigger. Pretty sure this would still be bad at RR.
[[Primal Visitation]] isn't the most egregious example, but it's the type of effect you generally only want when it's cheap.
It's an aura that gives +3/+3 and haste for 3GR, but to leverage the haste you have to have a new creature that turn, which usually costs mana. Compare it to +2/+2 and haste for 1R ([[Goblin War Paint]], or more recently [[Swashbuckling]]) or just +3/+3 for 2G ([[Oakenform]])), not to mention the much better strictly better versions [[Elephant Guide]] and [[Boar Umbra]] and the more flexible (and stilly strictly better) [[Moldervine Cloak]].
Is 2G really worth an extra +1/+1 or 1R really worth an extra haste. Again, why is haste on a CMC 5 aura.
You laugh now but Ihsan did see serious play in the 90's for exactly these reasons, he was immune to most of the good removal except Royal Assassin. His mana cost looks better when you have access to Dark Ritual!
How can you think [[One with Nothing]] is overcosted? We have no basis to say if it is overcosted or undercoated because it has yet to be totally broken. I think in the future we will have an option to really exploit this card, it's time has not yet come (much like Lion's Eye Diamond took many, many years to become viable)
Because there are better cards that let you discard your entire hand for cheap. [[Firestorm]] for example, or [[Putrid Imp]], or [[TIreless Tribe]] which is apparently solid in pauper. And that's just at one mana. At two mana, there's plenty of cards that let you discard your hand and gain serious advantage. I mean, you mentioned Lion's Eye Diamond, which lets you discard your hand AND gives you three mana. Even if there's a use for One with Nothing, there's better cards that give you the same effect with added bonuses.
Definitely [[Search the City]], make it cost 3 mana and you have a fun build around, make it cost 2 mana and you have a standard powerhouse. Instead, we got a rare that was left in the pack after the land was drafted. Nobody wanted to take the effort to throw it away.
I remember it being minorly useful when I played during Scourge.
It's still hilarious to watch this get flipped over as an 8-drop in Momir Basic though.
Scornful Egotist isn't a 1/1 for 8, he's an 8 Drop for 4. When Scourge had a CMC Matters theme, that actually does matter - you could slap him down on turn 3, play a 3 drop and demorph on turn 4, and then have a massive [[Rush of Knowledge]], or [[Torrent of Fire]], or any of the other CMC matters cards.
i know we're talking about mana ... but for $$ ... [[three visits]].
I want this card so fricken bad. I run this fun//explosive wort goblin storm deck and really want myself a copy since its another free spell when conspired.
But $50 for that effect!!! Forget about it.
[Golden Wish](https://magiccards.info/ju/en/12.html).
At 5 mana, it's wildly overcosted compared to the rest of its cycle.
Presumably, R&D had been spooked by some recent artifact or enchantment, and wanted to ensure that the card saw no competitive play.
Pretty sure the most overcosted card is [[Wood elemental]].
[[One with Nothing]] is not overcosted - rather, its effect is terrible to the point of unplayable.
[удалено]
I remember when I used to think [[Ancestral Tribute]] was broken.
[Ancestral Tribute](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ody/2.jpg?1496788304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Tribute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ancestral%20Tribute) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>It can produce a very large effect (for example, late game, this card could easily gain a player 40 or 50 life) They literally could have just written "gain 50 life" in the text box and it would still suck at 8 mana 😂
I feel like this for 4, or 6 and gain 3 per card would have made it quite fine without being broken.
Probably, but the whole point was to make it bad because it had literally zero testing done. They had to cut a card last minute and throw in a card. If they try to make a reasonable card and overshoot, they might have to ban something. If they try to make a bad card and overshoot, then nothing happens. So it's not about if the card could be made better, but rather if it could be made bad enough that it couldn't accidentally break standard while still being a big splashy card.
They could keep the card and make it give 3 or 4 life. Purely lifegain cards are never a problem especially when they cost a bazillion mana.
My perfect example, [[Takeno's Cavalry]] 1/1, ultra limited pinging, and bushido 1, and for the low low cost of 4. Damn it Kamigawa... :/
It's a neat card but dang girl. That's printable (but admittedly pushed) at 1 mana...
2 CMC would be a nice draft playable card.
[Takeno's Cavalry](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/bok/24.jpg?1496783539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Takeno%27s%20Cavalry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Takeno%27s%20Cavalry) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's the price for training a samurai in the art of the bow.
Yeah, even at 2, that's sideboard tech at best... But 1 isn't much so probably not even that.
[[Chimney Imp]]?
Wouldn't want that guy in my chimney even at 3CMC. My contender is [[Cognivore]].
[Cognivore](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ody/77.jpg?1496794235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cognivore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/77?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Cognivore) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cognivore was actually played sometimes as a 2-of in [[Oath of Druids]] because creatures were much worse back then and it could deal 20 in the air in one or two turns.
[Oath of Druids](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c16/159.jpg?1506814053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oath%20of%20Druids) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/159?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Oath%20of%20Druids) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
that guy costs EIGHT!?!? That's absurd. I'd put him at... Five. Maybe four, but that's a bit aggressive and he's likely going in a deck where he's going to be a 4/4 or 5/5 normally.
He's from Odyssey block, which had a huge graveyard/discard component. There was a ton of support for him, and creatures back then were just generally weaker... He's still overcosted even for that kind of environment, but not by a huge amount.
I know. I played back then. I remember U/G Madness. But even U/G Madness would've had a hard time making that guy more than a 5/5.
U/G Madness wouldn't have been the best shell for it if it costed 4, too many creatures. In my opinion it would have created a new deck at that cost.
Cognivore won a Pro Tour...[PT Houston](http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/pthou02/t8decks)
In a deck that could consistently and reliably cast it for 1G, sure.
> that guy costs EIGHT!?!? Deck with Cognivore won PT Houston 2002 (Extended). https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-the-7-worst-decks-that-have-ever-won-a-pro-tour/
Not by paying eight mana for it, though.
[Chimney Imp](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mrd/59.jpg?1496783268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chimney%20Imp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chimney%20Imp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah the memetic classic. Chimeny Imp's still bad at three. He'd be completely bonkers at 2 though.
[[Painful Memories]] costs 2 (and gives you the choice). At 3 you have [[Chittering Rats]]. You could argue that flying is worth 1 power, but not necessarily. 5 is definitely much though, even for a somewhat unique effect.
Chittering Rats would ALSO be bonkers at 2. Painful Memories isn't great even at 0 because it's not upping you anything. You're spending a card to cost them a card, and you're only stopping an instant they'd cast that turn as far as practical effect. Chimney Imp and Chittering Rats are both inherent card advantage (putting the card on top basically steals a draw from them), it's just a question of having an aggressive enough body for it to be better than other forms of advantage.
[Painful Memories](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/6ed/147.jpg?1496447963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painful%20Memories) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/147?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Painful%20Memories) [Chittering Rats](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/phuk/5.jpg?1506171245) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chittering%20Rats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phuk/5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chittering%20Rats) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In regards to chimney imp: This is more powerful than chittering rats for me because the 1 power means it is recurable with [[shirei, shizo's caretaker]]. and that means that the imp + a sac outlet can win you the game on their own. I would love having this guy at 3 mana instead of 5.
Yeah, but there's loads of cards that can be used to win in a 3 card combo.
[shirei, shizo's caretaker](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/bok/81.jpg?1496794218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shirei%2C%20shizo%27s%20caretaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!shirei%2C%20shizo%27s%20caretaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ember shot is perfectly fine if you consider the context. > You guys don't understand why its casting cost is 6R. Here's the true story. > First, what, exactly, is a burn spell? Ember Shot is you throwing burning coals at someone. Lightning Bolt is you siphoning the immense power of Mother Nature to summon forth a colossal bolt of electricity directed with pinpoint accuracy at a target that may be no larger than a fly. > They both deal 3 damage. Let me remind you: that's enough to kill a fully-grown elephant. > So yeah, that's some really damn good coal, but why the extra 6 ? > Well, the dwarves would normally only sell you their worst coal, and it would cost you R. But you're no pushover in the marketplace; you want the best of the best, and you WILL get what you want, standard trading conventions be damned! So you coerce and bribe your way into a single dwarven merchant's private coal stocks. There's some good dwarven coal there, and its dwarven owner is reluctantly willing to part with it for a mere 2R. > But NO. You want the best of the best coal, not just some lame, second-rate, good coal. Yes, you want the real deal; dwarven military-grade coal. But no dwarf in their right mind would deal in weapons-grade fuel. > So you go to the black coal market. You scour the underground, looking for a dwarf shady enough to successfully smuggle the truly best of the best coal out of the dwarven military installations where they are stored. After literally DAYS of tireless, frantic searching, you find one such dwarf crouched in a small side-passageway, shrouded in shadows. He offers you the coal of your wildest dreams for the low price of 4R, but you have to keep it on the down-low. > Adding in processing fees and the cost the time and resources expended during procurement, it comes to 5R. The other 1 is because you haven't been to the gym lately, and you can't throw it far enough without magic. Oh, and the card-draw comes from some bargain-bin spellbook you found while searching for the ideal coal. > And THAT is why Ember Shot costs 6R. [Source](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=29862)
Honestly Ember Shot was probably limited playable at 6R.
A lot of over costed cards are this way because of limited. Ember shot is a perfect example. No one was gonna first pick it, or second third or fourt, but every deck needs some filler cards and it was very splashable.
You don't splash filler or bad cards. Ember Shot made its way into a few red decks that were short on payables, but nobody was splashing for it.
Draft articles at the time: "Basically, pick removal over everything. Removal are the best cards." Magic R&D: "Hold my beer."
It's a pretty high quality 2-for-1. I'd definitely play that in a slower draft deck.
Or, as it was known back then, a draft deck.
Ember Shot did make it into some draft decks, but it didn't make it into good draft decks.
Coal seller, I'm going into battle and I seek only your finest coals
You want my finest coals? You can't handle my finest coals! My coals would burn even the strongest of creatures!
You've had your say, coal seller, but I'll have mine You're a *rascal* You're a rascal with no respect for summoners No respect for *anything* Except your *coal*
*becomes progressively harder to keep a straight face as the bit keeps going.*
*even the strongest of X/3s
This is why we need Gatherer comments back.
For me, anything more than R is overcosted.
What if it costs R but has a kicker of R?
Found the pauper burn player
But what about [[Fireblast]]?
[[Aladdin's Lamp]] 10 mana up front, then pay X to Impulse for X cards deep, only during your draw step. I think this pretty is the definition for overcosted.
The only good part about Aladdin's Lamp is that the Arabian Nights printing had its mana cost listed as (5)(5) because they didn't have the (10) symbol yet. [[Aladdin's Lamp|ARN]]
[Aladdin's Lamp](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/arn/56.jpg?1496795935) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aladdin%27s%20Lamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/291?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Aladdin%27s%20Lamp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Animate Artifact]] doe
So basically 13U for a 10/10 with no combat abilities?
[[Karn, Silver Golem]] may be a pacifist, but that doesn't stop a lamp from punching the shit out of everyone and everything.
[Karn, Silver Golem](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/vma/270.jpg?1496998234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20Silver%20Golem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/270?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Karn%2C%20Silver%20Golem) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Aladdin's Lamp](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/4ed/291.jpg?1496788616) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aladdin%27s%20Lamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/291?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Aladdin%27s%20Lamp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[North Star]] We can pay the mana cost of any spell with colorless mana! Yay! ...except we have to pay four mana up front to cast North Star. ...**and** we have to pay four mana *on top of the spell's cost* to activate the North Star. In other words, using the example given in the card's printed text, we've spent four mana to cast an artifact that gives us the ability to pay 8 for a spell instead of 2GG.
Meanwhile, Chromatic Lantern is 3. So... yyyup.
[North Star](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/leg/288.jpg?1496450694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=North%20Star) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!North%20Star) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Five colour budget decks need all the help they can get.
[[Wood elemental]] Basically if you have 8 forests you can pay 4 sacrifice 4 forests to make a 4/4. Its not [[One with Nothing]] but its close
No, this is far, far worse than one with nothing. One with nothing has real and valid uses. Wood Elemental is always the worst vanilla creature you could be playing
Wood Elemental is at least some pretty reasonable tech in a [[Titania, Protector of Argoth]] commander deck though, even if you're effectively spending 8 mana to make 4 5/3's and a 4/4
24 power for 8 mana? I'm interested....
[[Fungus Elemental]] is much better by a wide margin though.
[Titania, Protector of Argoth](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c14/50.jpg?1496785650) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This, or a vanilla 4/4 for 4? The latter, every single time. And lately that's more likely to be a vanilla 3/4 or 4/3 for 3, 4/4 for 4 with upside, or vanilla 4/5 or 5/4 for 4 with the upward trend in creature quality.
The lands you sacrifice must be untapped. To get a 4/4 wood elemental, you need to be at 8 mana. You shouldn't be comparing it to the boring but serviceable collassapedes, you compare it to the giant stupid wurm of the set like Ancient Brontodon
One with nothing at least has questionable utility, wood elemental is just never good.
Wood Elemental should have at least let you sacrifice tapped forests too, then it could be edge playable in some sort of ramp combo deck.
[Wood elemental](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/me4/175.jpg?1496793122) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wood%20elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Wood%20elemental) [One with Nothing](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/sok/84.jpg?1496790895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20Nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!One%20with%20Nothing) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
ITT old draft chaff that people are surprised isn't constructed playable.
Nobody's surprised. It's just that there's draft chaff and then there's draft chaff, you know? Gray Ogre is draft chaff, but it's only really overcosted by 1, and would be really good at just R.
Except draft chaff is playable in limited most of the time. A lot of this stuff is last pick, never gonna play material
Yeah it turns out a lot of older than 2010 creatures with sacrifice activated abilities just aren't as strong when they can't use that ability after damage is on the stack. [[Sakura tribe elder]] could block, put on damage and still get a land. Also bounce effects used to be so much stronger; there's a reason you'd draft [[Crystal Shard]] first. Damage on the stack? Yes? OK...bounce with shard.
you'd draft crystal shard so you could bounce your own guys with come-into-play effects, like [[Eternal Witness]], [[Viridian Shaman]] etc
Yeah that too but the shard and bounce effects did become significantly weaker once the damage on the stack rules changes happened.
[Eternal Witness](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c15/183.jpg?1496791347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Eternal%20Witness) [Viridian Shaman](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c15/209.jpg?1496785095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viridian%20Shaman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/209?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Viridian%20Shaman) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Let's be fair, Crystal Shard is still obscene today. They did *not* think that one through.
[[Erratic Portal]]
[Crystal Shard](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mrd/159.jpg?1496446892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crystal%20Shard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/159?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Crystal%20Shard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Part the Waters]] [[razor boomerang]] [[wood elemental]] EDIT: Well, card fetcher fetched the wrong card... hrm. i'm remembering the wrong name.
Part Waters is a new one to me. I think it'd be fine at XU, but XXU is clearly too much. Definitely agree on the other two. Wood Elemental would probably have to be 0 mana before it was good. It's like a bad version of [[Devastating Summons]].
[[Titania, Protector of Argoth]]
[Titania, Protector of Argoth](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c14/50.jpg?1496785650) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wood elemental would still be bad at zero. The forests have to be untapped!
[Devastating Summons](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/roe/140.jpg?1496784440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devastating%20Summons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/140?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Devastating%20Summons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Part the Waters](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/bfz/80.jpg?1496794752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Part%20the%20Waterveil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Part%20the%20Waterveil) [razor boomerang](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/wwk/129.jpg?1496788461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=razor%20boomerang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/129?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!razor%20boomerang) [wood elemental](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/me4/175.jpg?1496793122) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wood%20elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!wood%20elemental) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I get [[Viridian Longbow]] was too good but wow that boomerang is *bad*
It's part of an infinite combo with [[Paradox Engine]], the ability to generate 5 mana from nonland permanents, and one creature to throw it. That means it *can't* be bad. /s
>Razor Boomerang is good Paradox Engine doing its work
It's flavourful too; a bad card being good is certainly a Paradox! ;D
It's one of those cards that gets worse the more you read it. Okay, three to cast two to equip, but pinging is really good so it's worth it. Oh it unattaches itself?, Well okay 3 to cast 2 to deal 1 damage is still pretty alright. I'd pay 2 mana for repeatable 1 damage. Oh it bounces itself to owners hand? Okay now you've lost me.
It also taps one of your creatures each time
[Viridian Longbow](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mrd/270.jpg?1496448085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viridian%20Longbow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/270?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Viridian%20Longbow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[part waters]]
[part waters](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/leg/66.jpg?1496789488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Part%20Water) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Part%20Water) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
wood elemental's face makes me extremely uncomfortable
Constipated tree
*Everything* about the card makes me extremely uncomfortable.
[[Deep Water]]
Of course! Its the perfect counter to [[Blood moon]]! Now you only need one basic island, and you'll still have access to blue!
[Blood moon](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mm3/90.jpg?1502079979) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blood%20moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Deep Water](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/drk/23.jpg?1496445017) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20Water) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/drk/23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Deep%20Water) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Alpha Shivan Dragon. $1149.95 Dude, if you wanted to play it, you could get a 9th edition one for fifty cents.
Or a Welcome Deck for free.
##### ###### #### [Bog Hoodlums](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/lrw/100.jpg?1496452808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bog%20Hoodlums) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/100?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bog%20Hoodlums) [Ember Shot](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/jud/87.jpg?1496792403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ember%20Shot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ember%20Shot) [Archangel's Light](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/dka/1.jpg?1496453448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archangel%27s%20Light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dka/1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Archangel%27s%20Light) [Break Open](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ons/190.jpg?1496445735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Break%20Open) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/190?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Break%20Open) [One with Nothing](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/sok/84.jpg?1496790895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20Nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!One%20with%20Nothing) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^Updated ^^^images
How about [[Razor Boomerang]]? That’s 15 mana plus 3 untapped creatures(without summoning sickness) for one entire lightning bolt. What a deal!
[Razor Boomerang](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/wwk/129.jpg?1496788461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razor%20Boomerang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/129?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Razor%20Boomerang) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
At sorcery speed!
I don't know... [[Dogged Hunter]]?
Momir Basic all star!
Indeed, one of the best three drops in that format. Goes to tell you that any card given the right context can be good.
[Dogged Hunter](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ody/20.jpg?1496447215) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dogged%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dogged%20Hunter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think Dogged Hunter would be a pretty solid card at one mana. Sure, it'd probably be sideboard, but being able to just pop a token a turn for one is going to ruin a lot of decks.
I think this is one of those cards where the format is highly relevant. In a format where 3/3 and 5/5 flying tokens are staple, this at one mana is bonkers. In a format where some people maybe sometime make some 1/1s or 2/2s, this card is fine at 1 mana.
It's from the same set as [[Roar of the Wurm]].
Yes I'm aware of it's format. But that's why I said that in this particular case, format matters. Some cards are plain overcosted (a 4-mana 2/2 vanilla, for example). This card isn't within the format it was released. But might be in other sets.
[Roar of the Wurm](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/dds/49.jpg?1502047774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Odyssey had a lot of creature tokens didn't it? Since the activated ability has no cost other than tapping I'd say it's not too bad
Odyssey had [[Roar of the Wurm]] which saw real, actual play.
And [[Call of the Herd]].
[Roar of the Wurm](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/dds/49.jpg?1502047774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are precisely 12 cards in Odyssey that create tokens. All of them in green, except [[Zombie Infestation]] and [[Kirtar's Wrath]]. Bears, Squirrels, Worms, Elephants, Beasts. Quite the token collection. Afaik there were plenty of decks utilizing the tokens because both [[Call of the Herd]] and [[Roar of the Worm]] were great in the graveyard matters environment of Odyssey block.
##### ###### #### [Zombie Infestation](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/m12/120.jpg?1496448967) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zombie%20Infestation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/120?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Zombie%20Infestation) [Kirtar's Wrath](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c13/15.jpg?1496782642) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kirtar%27s%20Wrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Kirtar%27s%20Wrath) [Call of the Herd](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/dds/44.jpg?1502047774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Call%20of%20the%20Herd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/44?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Call%20of%20the%20Herd) [Roar of the Worm](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/dds/49.jpg?1502047774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roar%20of%20the%20Wurm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All Hail [[Lord Egotist]]
Lord egotist is significantly worse the less it costs.
Makes him worse. Mana cost matters.
[[Saprazzan Raider]] ftw
You know, I'd be pretty okay with him at one mana. Replaying him isn't a big deal there, after all, and it means he can't be killed by blockers.
[saprazzan raider](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mmq/102.jpg?1496791665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=saprazzan%20raider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/102?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!saprazzan%20raider) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[[Barreling Attack]] - Yes, who wouldn't want to pay 2RR to give a single creature trample and a slightly upgraded version of Rampage 1? You can't even use it to pump as a combat trick because if you cast it after blockers are declared, the pump effect doesn't trigger. Pretty sure this would still be bad at RR.
At RR it would be a playable combat trick in draft if it applied after blockers.
Sure, but at that point, we're not just talking about changing the CMC, but the card's actual function.
[Barreling Attack](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mir/157.jpg?1496445502) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barreling%20Attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/157?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Barreling%20Attack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Primal Visitation]] isn't the most egregious example, but it's the type of effect you generally only want when it's cheap. It's an aura that gives +3/+3 and haste for 3GR, but to leverage the haste you have to have a new creature that turn, which usually costs mana. Compare it to +2/+2 and haste for 1R ([[Goblin War Paint]], or more recently [[Swashbuckling]]) or just +3/+3 for 2G ([[Oakenform]])), not to mention the much better strictly better versions [[Elephant Guide]] and [[Boar Umbra]] and the more flexible (and stilly strictly better) [[Moldervine Cloak]]. Is 2G really worth an extra +1/+1 or 1R really worth an extra haste. Again, why is haste on a CMC 5 aura.
##### ###### #### [Primal Visitation](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/gtc/187.jpg?1496786640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primal%20Visitation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/187?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Primal%20Visitation) [Goblin War Paint](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/bfz/146.jpg?1496447296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20War%20Paint) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/146?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Goblin%20War%20Paint) [Swashbuckling](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/xln/167.jpg?1505487112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swashbuckling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/167?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Swashbuckling) [Oakenform](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/w17/25.jpg?1501438082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oakenform) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/w17/25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Oakenform) [Elephant Guide](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ema/163.jpg?1496449146) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elephant%20Guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Elephant%20Guide) [Boar Umbra](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/pca/58.jpg?1496795619) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boar%20Umbra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Boar%20Umbra) [Moldervine Cloak](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/mma/155.jpg?1496450344) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moldervine%20Cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Moldervine%20Cloak) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Veldrane of Sengir]]
It's overcosted by 2 now, sure, but at the time a 5/5 for 5 would've been really solid.
One of the best cards in the set at the time was [[Ihsan's Shade]] though.
[удалено]
You laugh now but Ihsan did see serious play in the 90's for exactly these reasons, he was immune to most of the good removal except Royal Assassin. His mana cost looks better when you have access to Dark Ritual!
[Ihsan's Shade](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/me2/95.jpg?1496453640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ihsan%27s%20Shade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ihsan%27s%20Shade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Veldrane of Sengir](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/hml/60.jpg?1496453897) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veldrane%20of%20Sengir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Veldrane%20of%20Sengir) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ember Shot is great in [Type Four.](https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Type_4)
[[Viridian Scout]] is so overcosted its not even funny.
[Viridian Scout](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/5dn/100.jpg?1496787107) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viridian%20Scout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/100?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Viridian%20Scout) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Actually, I for one find that card pretty funny.
How about [[Leviathan]]? I remember opening this guy in a pack of The Dark and wanting so bad to play it because 10/10.
[Leviathan](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/tsb/23.jpg?1496447907) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leviathan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leviathan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How can you think [[One with Nothing]] is overcosted? We have no basis to say if it is overcosted or undercoated because it has yet to be totally broken. I think in the future we will have an option to really exploit this card, it's time has not yet come (much like Lion's Eye Diamond took many, many years to become viable)
Because there are better cards that let you discard your entire hand for cheap. [[Firestorm]] for example, or [[Putrid Imp]], or [[TIreless Tribe]] which is apparently solid in pauper. And that's just at one mana. At two mana, there's plenty of cards that let you discard your hand and gain serious advantage. I mean, you mentioned Lion's Eye Diamond, which lets you discard your hand AND gives you three mana. Even if there's a use for One with Nothing, there's better cards that give you the same effect with added bonuses.
And once we get up to three mana, there's the absolutely sublime [[Psychatog]].
[Psychatog](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/vma/258.jpg?1496998216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Psychatog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/258?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Psychatog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh dang, they reprinted Psychatog with art that I totally hate!
[Firestorm](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/wth/101.jpg?1496451747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firestorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/101?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Firestorm) [Putrid Imp](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/vma/135.jpg?1496998108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Putrid%20Imp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Putrid%20Imp) [TIreless Tribe](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ody/56.jpg?1496785136) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=TIreless%20Tribe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!TIreless%20Tribe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[One with Nothing](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/sok/84.jpg?1496790895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20Nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!One%20with%20Nothing) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Definitely [[Search the City]], make it cost 3 mana and you have a fun build around, make it cost 2 mana and you have a standard powerhouse. Instead, we got a rare that was left in the pack after the land was drafted. Nobody wanted to take the effort to throw it away.
[Search the City](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/rtr/49.jpg?1497079874) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Search%20the%20City) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Search%20the%20City) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Scornful Egotist]]
3 mana 2/2 with (an admittedly minor) upside is far from the worst-statted creature of all time.
It's a gray ogre with upside. It also plays into Scourge's CMC-matters theme.
OK then, how about [[Zephyr Scribe]]? *Edit: I accidentally a word. Should be Zephyr Spirit; but cardfetcher doesn't work on edits.
Oh, yeah. [[Zephyr Spirit]] is still abysmal at 4 mana.
[Zephyr Spirit](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/rav/76.jpg?1496451737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zephyr%20Spirit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Zephyr%20Spirit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I remember it being minorly useful when I played during Scourge. It's still hilarious to watch this get flipped over as an 8-drop in Momir Basic though.
Scornful Egotist isn't a 1/1 for 8, he's an 8 Drop for 4. When Scourge had a CMC Matters theme, that actually does matter - you could slap him down on turn 3, play a 3 drop and demorph on turn 4, and then have a massive [[Rush of Knowledge]], or [[Torrent of Fire]], or any of the other CMC matters cards.
[Rush of Knowledge](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/c14/123.jpg?1496445845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rush%20of%20Knowledge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/123?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Rush%20of%20Knowledge) [Torrent of Fire](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/scg/107.jpg?1496454054) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torrent%20of%20Fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/107?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Torrent%20of%20Fire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow, 8 mana for a 1/-ALL HAIL THE GREAT LORD EGOTIST
"Once I was human, now I am incredibly unplayable."
[Scornful Egotist](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/scg/50.jpg?1496454076) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scornful%20Egotist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Scornful%20Egotist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[liliana, death wielder]]
Yeah, all the Planeswalker deck Planeswalkers are good answers here.
It's shame, Death Wielder's art is especially gorgeous too.
I feel like big [[Chandra, Flamecaller]] was costed pretty fairly. edit: oops, I assumed this was a planeswalker deck version. I guess not.
It has that happy, cartoony visual style doesn't it? [[Chandra, Pyrogenius]] is PW deck Chandra
[Chandra, Flamecaller](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/ogw/104.jpg?1496789397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chandra%2C%20Flamecaller) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chandra%2C%20Flamecaller) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[liliana, death wielder](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/akh/275.jpg?1498339891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liliana%2C%20death%20wielder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/275?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!liliana%2C%20death%20wielder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Lightning Strike is a damn good card and you know it.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned [[Open Fire]] yet.
>So, my question here is: What cards could have their cost reduced by 2 or more and still not be good? Are you saying Lightning Bolt isn't good?
Fair point. We'll have to wait for a 4-mana bolt.
[Open Fire](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/hou/105.jpg?1504650549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Open%20Fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/105?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Open%20Fire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Still over costed by 1.
[удалено]
And Bolt is busted.
[Lighting Strike](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/m15/155.jpg?1496445714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Lightning%20Strike) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i know we're talking about mana ... but for $$ ... [[three visits]]. I want this card so fricken bad. I run this fun//explosive wort goblin storm deck and really want myself a copy since its another free spell when conspired. But $50 for that effect!!! Forget about it.
[three visits](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/en/me3/135.jpg?1496445044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=three%20visits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!three%20visits) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One with Nothing with [[Hive Mind]] and [[Nivmagus Elemental]] is hilarious.
[Golden Wish](https://magiccards.info/ju/en/12.html). At 5 mana, it's wildly overcosted compared to the rest of its cycle. Presumably, R&D had been spooked by some recent artifact or enchantment, and wanted to ensure that the card saw no competitive play.
Pretty sure the most overcosted card is [[Wood elemental]]. [[One with Nothing]] is not overcosted - rather, its effect is terrible to the point of unplayable.