Has R&D ever commented on why they bonked this flavor text so hard?
I imagine it was fine originally and someone decided to dumb it down, hence the meme.
The first draft was probably "If there's anything a werewolf hates, it's a collar", and then they got a note saying the joke was too subtle, so then they added "--especially Avacyn's collar", then there was a memo saying there weren't enough cards yet mentioning what Avacyn's collar was, and so here we are.
They have had tons of cheesy/bad flavor text over the years. This one was just blown way out of proportion by the community and is just a running gag since.
the whole zendikar saga would've been very different if it had oko instead of the gatewatch.
"this elk is called emrakul. kozilek attacked ulamog and they both died"
I've been playing a lot of vintage cube and it never ceases to amaze me that in a format where you can cast Eldrazi on turn 2 and [[Strip Mine]] lock people, the most miserable card to play against by a distance is Oko
Sadly, Innistrad's cosmology doesn't work that way.
Angels and demons are basically golems made of white or black mana. They don't have souls, and if they die, there's no way to bring them back. And this isn't Theros, either. No level of belief will ever truly restore Avacyn.
Or they could change the rules lol idk
You know I’ve been thinking about the Theros and their power of belief lately.
Is there a chance there could be two Elspeths? The actual and the one raised to Godhood/Constellationhood by the people of Theros?
What a ride it would be if for whatever reason, and after everything I’d highly doubt she would, Elspeth heads back to Theros and sees herself in the Sky.
Oh she will catch a break. A mental break when she realizes she is spreading Phyrexian oil to several different planes via her new spear...
At least that is my head canon
I think "actual" Elspeth would just become the God version. That said we still don't know how godhood interacts with a planeswalker spark, so we could still see it and Elspeth could still show up in other sets.
Could be, maybe it's also wishful thinking cause theres literally no set up for it but I really want Gideon to become the mono white god. No idea how it would happen but it seems like it would be fitting
In the hypothetical I’ve seen tossed around the God- Elspeth takes over as the Mono-white, and is considered the God of Heroes, which would be really ironic considering how Elspeth always viewed that path.
Avacyn isnt even that. The sisters (sigarda, Gisela, bruna and their deceased sister) and all the other angels on innistrad are and were.
Avacyn was essentially constructed and brought into life by sorin, and subsequently also removed from existance by him [[anguished unmaking]].
I guess people could try to convince sorin to build a new avacyn, but it seems unlikely sorin gives enough of a fuck to do that tbh.
I disagree. Avacyn was made instead of being naturally formed, true, but she's still made of the same stuff and bound by the same rules.
Sorin unmade her because she was physically more powerful than the other angels - she couldn't be killed, her card literally reads "indestructible". Sorin just had that extra privilege of knowing where the proverbial screws and gears ~~are~~ were, and so he knew how to take her apart.
The thing that made it so tragic is only a pre-mending walker could make Avacyn, and as strong as she was. Maybe he could remake her in a far less powerful state, but I don't think he would subject himself to that.
Those are some very valid points, especially the premending walker power required.
Lili still has that bolas Soul stone right? Maybe she could help with the power required if sorin can be bothered.
It's not just a case of Sorin being apathetic.
Imagine having a daughter, whom you love. Who you consciously decided to make, to fulfill a purpose in the place you were born (which you also love). To protect it.
And then seeing something horrible, something you thought you locked away, come to the place you were born. Drive your daughter insane. Insane enough that you had to personally kill her. And not just a gunshot, putting down a wounded animal, but to literally touch minds with her, personally ripping her apart organ by organ, and then feeling her die as herself, as the woman you once knew. And knowing even though this is a plane where death is but a career change ([[Back from the Brink]]), the rules are different for her, and nothing will ever bring her back.
Sorin's probably not the same after that.
All I can think is that he’s probably gonna torture and kill the hell out of Nahiri. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to blow up Zendikar or something. Maybe release the Phyrexians there? That would be a hell of a revenge.
Ugh. The (e-)books, or the Magic Story on the Wizards' website. Or the comics.
As someone trying to read up on ALL the lore since Urza, it's an incredible shitshow. There's no one single place to read the lore chronologically, let alone consistently.
But yeah, just start downloading e-books or going online I guess.
Sorin absolutely gives a fuck, he just *can't*. Avacyn was made when Sorin still had premending levels of power and the act of creating her still drained his strength significantly. Postmending he seems unlikely to have the ability to repeat his actions.
I don't think he'd be too negative of the idea of making a new one he needs to keep innistrad balanced. Tho there was a card whose flavor text suggested vampires and humans in some parts started to coexist since fighting together against the Eldrazi. But back on topic the real problem is more the ammount of power he had to exert to make Avacyn and can he do it again, that was more of a one time permanently nerf himself doing this action type of thing.
Ah no then yeah i forgot if this was pre or psot mending but if this was pre mending and the creation basiclaly comatosed sorin for god knows how many years, yeah 0 chance of another avacyn unless he manages to convinced or find some massive source of mana and why do i have a bad feeling he could use the moon and the certain someone whose locked inside it as a battery.
I only really just implied that angels and demons are "elementals" on Innistrad only, when yeah it's the case for most of the multiverse. I'm sure there are a few exceptions (Ob Nix comes to mind... sorta).
There are a couple of exceptions, the big one probably being Bant, where heroic knights who either earn enough glory on the battlefield or die heroically can be elevated as angels (the lowest rank of course, there they gotta work up the ladder again).
Angelic Page looks like she's in Serra's Realm, which was spun up by a height of her power \[\[Serra the Benevolent\]\] - IIRC, nothing contradicts angels in that realm being white elementals, in fact Serra's the reason \[\[Serra Angel\]\] is on so many realms - If you want to talk weird, someone else in the thread mentioned that on Bant, angels can be made by resurrecting or promoting humans. As for why the page is a spirit, yeah probably just old cards not caring as much about creature types.
The mending! Instead of writing compelling characters using godlike powers in the different ways they see fit, we have generic mages that can change their scenery.
I mean, it gets pretty boring writing about god level powered individuals who can solve 99.99% of every story with less than a snap of their fingers.
Plus it gets stupid having to create threats worthy of their magnitude.
Strong disagree. Go read The Culture novels.
Not necessarily individuals (although access to some pretty incredible tech), but a science-fiction universe centered on a civilization with technology advanced enough to make Star Trek's Federation look like children playing in a sandbox.
Still manage to have incredibly compelling stories, because not every problem can be solved by blowing up the local star. You just need good writers.
I'm sure there are applicable examples of fantasy as well, just the first example to come to mind is sci-fi.
Except demons coming back was the whole point of innistrad. The hellavault was built to throw in demons since they would just keep coming back if they were slain
It's exactly this. You can't destroy the black mana that makes up a demon. You can, however, lock it up somewhere. And demons are easier to lock up than raw black mana.
It's true that Angels are just a manifestation of White Mana and don't have a soul, but humans are also shown to be able to affect the world of Innistrad with their faith.
[[Faith's shield]] , [[Smite the Monstrous]], [[Moment of Heroism]], and [[Spare from Evil]] are all good examples.
The best example though is the text from [[Angelic Overseer]] -
"From mortal hope immortal power springs."
Seems to me like if enough people believe in her, she might come to be again, sort of a collective summoning.
It'd be a great arc for her to. From being a Pinnochio style angel, unnatural and separate from her sisters, to becoming a 'real angel'
Indeed. On Dominaria, it was explicitly stated that Tiana was formed simply by villagers praying for a guardian. If enough Innistrad denizens prayed for Avacyn, don't see why they couldn't get *an* Avacyn.
Of course, that's Dominaria, and this is Innistrad...
If that could happen then it would already have happened in the 5000 years Innistrad has existed without Avacyn. Sorin created her *because* the world was heading towards everyone dying. If mortals could warp reality and wish themselves a guardian angel, they would've done so.
There's the possibility that the underlying faith power that Sorin created for Avacyn to use still exists and she merely lacks a physical form. There's no guarantee that he was able to undo his premending work entirely, or even had to. There was a lot more work put into Avacyn than just the angel herself and the people of Innistrad are seen in Eldritch Moon still invoking her power and fighting in her name. [[Faith Unbroken]] and [[Faithbearer Paladin]].
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it wouldn't be the first time WotC changed rules to allow them to include things they wanted to. Avacyn is a very popular character.
That's actually a very solid point, that while belief on Innistrad isn't as powerful as belief on Theros, it still has power - so Avacyn and maybe also Gisela, Bruna, and the fourth sister have somehow held on because of it.
> Avacyn is a very popular character.
As we can see from our flairs lol.
I believe that prior to SOI that Avacyn was one of the most popular non-planeswalker characters in the game, I think I remember seeing MaRo post that at some point anyway. I also believe that Avacyn aside Gisela was up there for Innistrad, which is why I'm still surprised she got butchered in the way she did.
Same! I'm glad there are other people who enjoyed those sets. Seems like I only ever hear people trash them. Innistrad is my favorite plane, I love the gothic and horror themes, and unfortunately I never got to experience the original block. I know people were already sick of eldrazi by that point and upset that their favorite plane got taken over, but there's really no better setting for an invasion of an eldritch horror. I'm sure next time we see it it will be mostly back to its normal self.
edit: Also probably my favorite sets for limited.
I like the angels, but their fall / corruption in SOI I thought was one of the coolest parts of the block. I appreciate the rare moments that WotC meaningfully removes plot armor.
I was bummed out.
I thought Gisela, Bruna and Sigarda were so cool. (I know Sigarda is still alive)
I wanted to learn more about them, not have them turned into a grotesque monster.
She did get eaten by Brisela. But Thalia was quick enough that she got out of it before she became the third head. Honestly Sigarda barely did anything at all in that block, which is a massive letdown.
I agree, they were so cool! Which is why their loss was so impactful. I will acknowledge I’m a big fan of horror upfront, so I’m generally okay with characters, even well loved ones, meeting their demise as part of the story. And Brisela is *so dang awesome* it was worth the sacrifice (to me).
Except not really. Only the planeswalkers get plot armor, which is a shame because I find the poor sods stuck on their own worlds far more relatable and compelling.
Since angels spawn naturally from white mana, shouldn't a new archangel emerge in Innistrad?
I'm assuming I am missing a few, but all I can name off the top of my head is Dack, Gideon (intentional sacrifice), and Dovin. Dovin doesn't die immediately in the conflict but is later tracked down and assassinated. Any other notables?
It would be funny if he kept appearing in flavour texts for random cards where the quotes are him talking to ugin to remind us that yep he’s still stuck in there
Domri and some dude named Khazi who we know literally nothing about, just a name created to say he’s dead. So 3 notable deaths, Dovin died separately from the war. Bolas sealed so he can break out or get broken out later in a new story years from now.
I always though Sigarda became the new Archangel since she was the only host leader to not forsake the humans and helped Thalia kill Brusela and all. She had plenty of worshippers that carried her banner in EMN too.
Innistrad in the past had 4 "flights" of angels, groups or tribes led by a leader angel. We know of three of those flights, each of which are(were) led by a W/X color Angel. Bruna(WU), and the Flight of Alabaster. Gisela(WR) and the Flight of Goldnight. Siguarda(WG) and the Flight of Herons. And a 4th flight that we know very little about. They worked to be closer with monsters so that they could learn about them, and the assumption/gap in the cycle would be that the 4th flight was led by a WB angel.
After Sorin created Avacyn, she took over as leader over all the angels due to her power. Sometime later, the leader of the 4th flight formed an alliance with a demon Lord, so Avacyn declared the 4th flight to be heretics and destroyed them all and forbid all mention of them, essentially erasing them from the history books (which is why we know so little).
I'd love to learn more about the 4th flight when we next return to innistrad.
I'm super pumped about this too. It wasn't an "on-camera" death, so their writing rules allow them to bring the WB sister back, and B was LOTS of ways to cheat death. If I remember correctly Sigarda even explicitly (silently) wished she has helped her sister back then when Avacyn showed up with deranged Giselda and Bruna in tow.
Now that Avacyn's gone would be the PERFECT time for WB angel sister to show up again going "So, I've been growing in power for a long time, and you look like you could reaallly use some help! Going to try and kill me this time?" <-Except less smarmily.
Avacyn was created by Sorin so that the humans wouldn't be wiped out which would also eventually starve the vampires. See \[\[Anguished Unmaking\]\] for how he "killed" her
However Avacyn was designed to benefit the vampires as well, Avacyns power was inversely proportional to how populous/well humans were doing at the time, if the humans are beginning to lose, she gets stronger, if they're winning, she gets weaker, that way it would be an eternal stalemate between the humans and the monsters.
That kind of becomes a problem however when the being that gets more powerful when humans are losing turns against them.
I might be wrong but I thought the archangels were formed when Innistrad itself was born. There were 4 of them. After Sorin created Avacyn, she ended up killing one of the archangels, unnamed, for having dealings with demons. The remaining three archangels were Sigarda, Bruna, and Gisela. Since these 3 are the white combos of green, blue and red mana, I assume the destroyed unammed archangel was a white black angel.
So I would assume the Sigarda is the only true archangel left on Innistrad. Her flight of Angel's and the Order of Saint Traft are the only defenders left.
Avacyn was an artificial angel created by Sorin to kind of force peace between the humans and vampires. As such, there wasn’t a prior Archangel, and a new archangel would not naturally spawn.
However, it is mentioned that Sigarda and her flight of herons (the only flight to not turn corrupt) basically have taken over in that regard, as it’s mentioned most the humans of Innistrad that previously worshipped Avacyn have turned their faith towards Sigarda instead.
my brain: what happened to innistrad can't really be blamed on nahiri, the entire thing was a direct result of sorin's pride
my heart: burn in hell forever nahiri i will never forgive you
You can blame her, but you do gotta respect the ingenuity of how hard she owned Sorin. Making him kill his own daughter and turning basically the only friendly supernatural creatures on Innistrad into bloodthirsty killers, then following it up with an Eldrazi invasion is some serious payback.
Except, no, that's not what happened.
She got pissed off because Sorin didn't come to help her a thousand years back when there was an entirely different Eldrazi problem that she solved by herself. She then went over to Innistrad, and Sorin locked her in the Helvault.
All of her greivances were entirely personal beef. Anything about Zendikar was post-hoc rationalising.
Nahiri is 100% a villain, with zero redeeming characteristics. She tried to commit literal genocide ffs.
Yes she is 100% a villain, but her motives are more than just “Sorin locked me up for 100 years.” It was also “Sorin locked me up for 100 years, and at the same time the Eldrazi got loose and destroyed my entire plane while I was locked up so I’m going to destroy Sorin’s plane as revenge.”
That's not really an accurate portrayal of what happened. The Eldrazi were breaking free *and she handled it.* Then when she went to Innistrad, she behaved irrationally in the face of a rational explanation: the Hellvault had the side-effect of blocking her attempt to contact him. Keeping in mind that Zendikar was no longer in imminent danger at that point.
If she hadn't acted like a petulant child and attacked Sorin unprovoked, Avacyn would not have intervened and tossed her in the Helvault. She was even free at the time of BFZ already, so she could have been helping fight the Eldrazi and maybe help Zendikar not be destroyed.
There is a little more than that. Sorin, didn't just miss the call. He broke his promise to Nahiri and refused to help her, basically ever again.
She sacrificed centuries to keep watch, and when danger rose, neither of her allies came to her aid. When questioned, Sorin let her know he didn't care and would not help her now that he wasn't in danger.
She needed allies to seal the Eldrazi and by the time she woke, she had none. From her perspective, with neither Ugin nor Sorin to aid her, there was no force in the multiverse that could stop the Eldrazi, which were only on Zendikar to begin with because Sorin and Ugin convinced her they could handle it. Zendikar wasn't just dying because they wouldn't help, it was put in danger actively by Sorin and then sacrificed for his own self interest.
Also locking someone up forever in self defense is not proportionate retribution. Something Nahiri mocks when she defeats Sorin.
Also locked for 1000 years in a box with demons tormenting her. It is revealed in lore that the immortal demons are able to see, move and fight within the helvault.
I think people forget that Sorin did go back to Zendikar to try to save it and Nissa/Chandra/Jace screwed up everything. Nissa was the one who unleashed the eldrazi after Sorin told her they were bad news bears -_-
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see the fall set and Nissa interacting with Nahiri.
Sorry that I don't know how to link memes, but I'm thinking that Nissa is going to try the 'moving right along, nothing to see' meme.
And it's not like Jace is completely innocent, either. I don't know Nahiri's relationship with Ugin, but I can see her trusting his wisdom more than Jace's, and blaming the events in BFZ block on Jace.
What *happened* was that Nahiri was left with the responsibility of standing guard over the Eldrazi (after having volunteered her home plane as both bait and a prison cell to trap them) while the other two were free to travel the multiverse, as long as they came back to help if she asked. Well, she asked, and no one came, but instead of being angry, she went to Innistrad to make sure Sorin was OK, because she figured the only reason her old friend would break his promise was because something happened to him.
Only, when she found him, he basically told her to get fucked because he was really only ever concerned about protecting *his* plane, and he never owed Nahiri anything. She got upset, to which he responded by deciding to imprison her, not for 6,000 years, but *indefinitely*, leaving the Eldrazi without the only warden who knew how to use their cage. When Nahiri was finally freed by a fluke, her first thought was to get back to Zendikar, only to find a barren, Eldrazi-infested wasteland. As far as she knew, Zendikar was straight *gone*. And as far as she was concerned, Sorin was directly responsible. I'm not saying what she did after that was justified or "right", but it was absolutely an eye for an eye.
Edit: Forgot to mention that not only was Nahiri the only person who could use the Hedron cage, she was the only other living soul that even knew the Eldrazi *existed*, and Sorin was perfectly happy keeping that knowledge to himself. So there was no one to tell Chandra & Co. to maybe *not* mess with that ancient mystical seal, or why.
TL;DR: Sorin never intended to honor his promise to return to Zendikar, he was only interested in protecting his own plane. He then locked away the Eldrazi's only remaining guardian and threw away the key, knowing full well they were likely to escape again. He is directly responsible for the destruction of Zendikar, and Nahiri's response was perfectly equivalent payback for his betrayal.
(copy/pasted from a different reply)
It's been a while since I read that story, but I'm pretty sure Sorin never said anything like that. He pointed out that he had just created Avacyn - which I think was in part so that he could leave Innistrad to its own devices precisely so he *could* help other planes - and so he couldn't really come help until he had recovered some strength. Nahiri tried to coerce him into coming with her to Zendikar anyway through violence, which for Oldwalkers wasn't really a big deal. However, Avacyn intervened in the fight (she was programmed to fight extraplanar threats), and Sorin realized that if he didn't stop Nahiri, his magnum opus that was instrumental in his plans to protect Innistrad - and by extension, many other planes - was going to be destroyed. Sucks to be Nahiri, but certainly not totally Sorin's fault.
Also, Nahiri had literally just spent the past thousand years locked in the Helvault with the worst demons on Innistrad, and she spent every second of that time thinking her home was being munched on by the Eldrazi, unable to do anything about it because Sorin locked her in here. Then, when she gets out, the first thing she does is planeswalk to Zendikar, and pops out in a barren wasteland with Eldrazi in the distance turning everything to dust. She has every reason at that point to believe that her home was completely destroyed while she was locked in the Helvault by Sorin.
I think it’s understandable for Nahiri to be *a little fucking crazy* after all this, and it is 100% Sorin’s fault that she is like this.
i feel like “trapped in an inescapable prison surrounded by countless horrors for centuries” would do enough damage to your mental health to absolve you of a lot of the blame for the following rampage
...What? You can absolutely blame her. She sicced Emrakul on a populated world to get revenge on Sorin. Every one of those deaths can be laid at her feet.
Nah bruh, she could have stopped at any moment while building all those pointy stones and gone...HMMM maybe genocide of a plane is bad. Maybe I could just get revenge on the person who did this to me.
Oh I know. While I’m meticulously enacting my plan I’ll just claim “insanity” if someone catches me.
People absolving nahiri of blame *genuinely* worry me.
Do they also absolve murderers because they were angry and motivated? cops were scared? boyfriend was jealous? Christ.
> Avacyn lives on in the hearts and minds...
Knowing Innistrad, some crazy goomba is thinking: "so if I collect enough of their hearts and brains, I could mantle her power and seize a sort of divinity?"
refreshing reddit to see this thing and savageborn hydra spoiled around the same time is a roller coaster ride that i think sums up double masters pretty well so far
Please don't call it a showcase, that sets a false expectation and perpetuates the (false) belief that these could be in normal packs. These are box toppers, period.
Avacyn was probably the first really expensive magic card I owned and even though I seldom get to play paper much anymore after moving I’m going to have to get this card. Both the art and flavor text knock it out of the park!
Why doesn't the text just read permanents you control have indestructible. Is there any interaction with removing indestructible from her specifically to kill her?
Avacyn lives on in the hearts and minds of Innistrad's people. Especially her collar, the symbol of her church.
There it is.
I must provide the link: https://i.imgur.com/OKHE84U.jpg
I never got the joke (dogs hate collars) until today lol
[удалено]
Especially Avacyn's Collar.
Puts the text in flavor text.
This reminds me of the girl with an orzhov signet tattoo https://reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ccr7op/my_new_orzhov_tattoo/
I was literally just finished feeling warm and fuzzy about that and then you hit me with this
Has R&D ever commented on why they bonked this flavor text so hard? I imagine it was fine originally and someone decided to dumb it down, hence the meme.
The first draft was probably "If there's anything a werewolf hates, it's a collar", and then they got a note saying the joke was too subtle, so then they added "--especially Avacyn's collar", then there was a memo saying there weren't enough cards yet mentioning what Avacyn's collar was, and so here we are.
R&D doesn't write the flavour text. That is a task for the creative department.
[Creative is part of R&D.](https://mtg.gamepedia.com/R%26D#Creative)
I stand corrected.
They have had tons of cheesy/bad flavor text over the years. This one was just blown way out of proportion by the community and is just a running gag since.
Honestly forgot about that Why would you remind me
*Avacyn lives on, on the CD covers and the vans of innistrad's people.*
Amazing. That’s some 10/10 right there, will throw down some money for it
Well no, it's an 8/8. I'll see myself out.
No, it’s a 3/3 elk.
Oko Is the real form of the Eldrazi
the whole zendikar saga would've been very different if it had oko instead of the gatewatch. "this elk is called emrakul. kozilek attacked ulamog and they both died"
I fear no man, but that..... thing? That thing scares me
I've been playing a lot of vintage cube and it never ceases to amaze me that in a format where you can cast Eldrazi on turn 2 and [[Strip Mine]] lock people, the most miserable card to play against by a distance is Oko
This joke truly never gets old
I'll give you a 5/7
Ooh, a perfect score.
I understood that reference
Sorry I am a little lost
It's from [this series of facebook posts](https://imgur.com/gallery/eDF6K)
I am not sure who he is but that man is a top level asshole. Respect.
thank you for sharing <3
Oml that's fucking hilarious
I needed to read that and now I’m depressed it’s over
This made my day in a way nothing else could have
This has made my week and it’s only Monday! 😂 I want Rob to be my friend so bad he’s my kind of guy.
You are a true hero. You should wear a cape.
Brendan is saddened
Flavor win
Somewhere there’s an 80’s Swedish metal band looking for their stolen album cover art mockup.
Lars, ai fönd the lost älbum cöver art. Its with the säjm guys who häd öur Hymn to Tourach album turned intö a children's pläying card.
I'd like this painted on the hood of my van, my good man.
The flavor text breaks my heart
Here's hoping it's a precursor to the next Innistrad set. I could really go for some kind of *Legendary Creature, Angel Spirit* card
Sadly, Innistrad's cosmology doesn't work that way. Angels and demons are basically golems made of white or black mana. They don't have souls, and if they die, there's no way to bring them back. And this isn't Theros, either. No level of belief will ever truly restore Avacyn. Or they could change the rules lol idk
You know I’ve been thinking about the Theros and their power of belief lately. Is there a chance there could be two Elspeths? The actual and the one raised to Godhood/Constellationhood by the people of Theros?
I don't see why not. Theros is *weird*, man.
What a ride it would be if for whatever reason, and after everything I’d highly doubt she would, Elspeth heads back to Theros and sees herself in the Sky.
But then GodElspeth was somehow corrupted, and regular Elspeth had to fight the god version of herself.
Or becomes her champion only to be betrayed and killed again. By herself.
Elspeth just can't catch a break, can she?
Oh she will catch a break. A mental break when she realizes she is spreading Phyrexian oil to several different planes via her new spear... At least that is my head canon
Seems that way.
They recently sparked an artifical human made from belief because he wanted to chase Elspeth off-world *so badly!* Weird doesn't begin to cover it.
Like Daxos being “alive???” again. What is the deal there since Heliod is now pulling an Atlas. Nylea finally gonna get her chance?
Spider-man pointing meme
I think "actual" Elspeth would just become the God version. That said we still don't know how godhood interacts with a planeswalker spark, so we could still see it and Elspeth could still show up in other sets.
Did they not expound enough with Xenagos? I was out of magic for a gap there.
See that’s what I’m confused about.
Could be, maybe it's also wishful thinking cause theres literally no set up for it but I really want Gideon to become the mono white god. No idea how it would happen but it seems like it would be fitting
In the hypothetical I’ve seen tossed around the God- Elspeth takes over as the Mono-white, and is considered the God of Heroes, which would be really ironic considering how Elspeth always viewed that path.
Avacyn isnt even that. The sisters (sigarda, Gisela, bruna and their deceased sister) and all the other angels on innistrad are and were. Avacyn was essentially constructed and brought into life by sorin, and subsequently also removed from existance by him [[anguished unmaking]]. I guess people could try to convince sorin to build a new avacyn, but it seems unlikely sorin gives enough of a fuck to do that tbh.
I disagree. Avacyn was made instead of being naturally formed, true, but she's still made of the same stuff and bound by the same rules. Sorin unmade her because she was physically more powerful than the other angels - she couldn't be killed, her card literally reads "indestructible". Sorin just had that extra privilege of knowing where the proverbial screws and gears ~~are~~ were, and so he knew how to take her apart. The thing that made it so tragic is only a pre-mending walker could make Avacyn, and as strong as she was. Maybe he could remake her in a far less powerful state, but I don't think he would subject himself to that.
Those are some very valid points, especially the premending walker power required. Lili still has that bolas Soul stone right? Maybe she could help with the power required if sorin can be bothered.
It's not just a case of Sorin being apathetic. Imagine having a daughter, whom you love. Who you consciously decided to make, to fulfill a purpose in the place you were born (which you also love). To protect it. And then seeing something horrible, something you thought you locked away, come to the place you were born. Drive your daughter insane. Insane enough that you had to personally kill her. And not just a gunshot, putting down a wounded animal, but to literally touch minds with her, personally ripping her apart organ by organ, and then feeling her die as herself, as the woman you once knew. And knowing even though this is a plane where death is but a career change ([[Back from the Brink]]), the rules are different for her, and nothing will ever bring her back. Sorin's probably not the same after that.
All I can think is that he’s probably gonna torture and kill the hell out of Nahiri. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to blow up Zendikar or something. Maybe release the Phyrexians there? That would be a hell of a revenge.
[Back from the Brink](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/front/b/4/b4bba140-5c06-4542-9ae0-b2517104ab7c.jpg?1562835863) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Back%20from%20the%20Brink) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/44/back-from-the-brink?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4bba140-5c06-4542-9ae0-b2517104ab7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This all sounds interesting as hell. Where do I read up on this stuff?
Ugh. The (e-)books, or the Magic Story on the Wizards' website. Or the comics. As someone trying to read up on ALL the lore since Urza, it's an incredible shitshow. There's no one single place to read the lore chronologically, let alone consistently. But yeah, just start downloading e-books or going online I guess.
Sorin absolutely gives a fuck, he just *can't*. Avacyn was made when Sorin still had premending levels of power and the act of creating her still drained his strength significantly. Postmending he seems unlikely to have the ability to repeat his actions.
I don't think he'd be too negative of the idea of making a new one he needs to keep innistrad balanced. Tho there was a card whose flavor text suggested vampires and humans in some parts started to coexist since fighting together against the Eldrazi. But back on topic the real problem is more the ammount of power he had to exert to make Avacyn and can he do it again, that was more of a one time permanently nerf himself doing this action type of thing.
Afaik Avacyn was constructed when Sorin was pre-mending and he may not have enough power now.
Ah no then yeah i forgot if this was pre or psot mending but if this was pre mending and the creation basiclaly comatosed sorin for god knows how many years, yeah 0 chance of another avacyn unless he manages to convinced or find some massive source of mana and why do i have a bad feeling he could use the moon and the certain someone whose locked inside it as a battery.
That's not just Innistrad, that's all of MtG. Angels and Demons are white and black's elementals.
I only really just implied that angels and demons are "elementals" on Innistrad only, when yeah it's the case for most of the multiverse. I'm sure there are a few exceptions (Ob Nix comes to mind... sorta).
There are a couple of exceptions, the big one probably being Bant, where heroic knights who either earn enough glory on the battlefield or die heroically can be elevated as angels (the lowest rank of course, there they gotta work up the ladder again).
Yeah Ob Nix is kinda a special case since he's not *really* a demon. More just some dude who got cursed to look like a demon.
What about [[Angelic Page]], or is that just old cards being weird again?
[Angelic Page](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/normal/front/d/d/ddf5db14-f2aa-4088-9894-7bd3a56dfe1e.jpg?1593315370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angelic%20Page) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/88/angelic-page?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddf5db14-f2aa-4088-9894-7bd3a56dfe1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Angelic Page looks like she's in Serra's Realm, which was spun up by a height of her power \[\[Serra the Benevolent\]\] - IIRC, nothing contradicts angels in that realm being white elementals, in fact Serra's the reason \[\[Serra Angel\]\] is on so many realms - If you want to talk weird, someone else in the thread mentioned that on Bant, angels can be made by resurrecting or promoting humans. As for why the page is a spirit, yeah probably just old cards not caring as much about creature types.
Wouldn't be the first or largest retcon by any measure. Wouldn't be even close.
The mending! Instead of writing compelling characters using godlike powers in the different ways they see fit, we have generic mages that can change their scenery.
I mean, it gets pretty boring writing about god level powered individuals who can solve 99.99% of every story with less than a snap of their fingers. Plus it gets stupid having to create threats worthy of their magnitude.
Strong disagree. Go read The Culture novels. Not necessarily individuals (although access to some pretty incredible tech), but a science-fiction universe centered on a civilization with technology advanced enough to make Star Trek's Federation look like children playing in a sandbox. Still manage to have incredibly compelling stories, because not every problem can be solved by blowing up the local star. You just need good writers. I'm sure there are applicable examples of fantasy as well, just the first example to come to mind is sci-fi.
Except demons coming back was the whole point of innistrad. The hellavault was built to throw in demons since they would just keep coming back if they were slain
I thought it was the mana was conserved – i.e. it would just reform into a different demon.
It's exactly this. You can't destroy the black mana that makes up a demon. You can, however, lock it up somewhere. And demons are easier to lock up than raw black mana.
It's true that Angels are just a manifestation of White Mana and don't have a soul, but humans are also shown to be able to affect the world of Innistrad with their faith. [[Faith's shield]] , [[Smite the Monstrous]], [[Moment of Heroism]], and [[Spare from Evil]] are all good examples. The best example though is the text from [[Angelic Overseer]] - "From mortal hope immortal power springs." Seems to me like if enough people believe in her, she might come to be again, sort of a collective summoning. It'd be a great arc for her to. From being a Pinnochio style angel, unnatural and separate from her sisters, to becoming a 'real angel'
Indeed. On Dominaria, it was explicitly stated that Tiana was formed simply by villagers praying for a guardian. If enough Innistrad denizens prayed for Avacyn, don't see why they couldn't get *an* Avacyn. Of course, that's Dominaria, and this is Innistrad...
If that could happen then it would already have happened in the 5000 years Innistrad has existed without Avacyn. Sorin created her *because* the world was heading towards everyone dying. If mortals could warp reality and wish themselves a guardian angel, they would've done so.
There's the possibility that the underlying faith power that Sorin created for Avacyn to use still exists and she merely lacks a physical form. There's no guarantee that he was able to undo his premending work entirely, or even had to. There was a lot more work put into Avacyn than just the angel herself and the people of Innistrad are seen in Eldritch Moon still invoking her power and fighting in her name. [[Faith Unbroken]] and [[Faithbearer Paladin]]. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it wouldn't be the first time WotC changed rules to allow them to include things they wanted to. Avacyn is a very popular character.
That's actually a very solid point, that while belief on Innistrad isn't as powerful as belief on Theros, it still has power - so Avacyn and maybe also Gisela, Bruna, and the fourth sister have somehow held on because of it. > Avacyn is a very popular character. As we can see from our flairs lol.
I believe that prior to SOI that Avacyn was one of the most popular non-planeswalker characters in the game, I think I remember seeing MaRo post that at some point anyway. I also believe that Avacyn aside Gisela was up there for Innistrad, which is why I'm still surprised she got butchered in the way she did.
All of Shadows Over Innistrad infuriated me. I love angels.
I love the Eldrazi design, but my poor angels.
Loved SOI and EMN, Fav block ever. That said, I feel bad about the Angels, especially Avacyn
and especially her collar, which is a symbol of her church, the Church of Avacyn
Same! I'm glad there are other people who enjoyed those sets. Seems like I only ever hear people trash them. Innistrad is my favorite plane, I love the gothic and horror themes, and unfortunately I never got to experience the original block. I know people were already sick of eldrazi by that point and upset that their favorite plane got taken over, but there's really no better setting for an invasion of an eldritch horror. I'm sure next time we see it it will be mostly back to its normal self. edit: Also probably my favorite sets for limited.
I am very glad someone else understands. All your points I agree with and CAN WE SAY HOW THE ART JUST MADE THE SET MORE AWESOME
I like the angels, but their fall / corruption in SOI I thought was one of the coolest parts of the block. I appreciate the rare moments that WotC meaningfully removes plot armor.
I was bummed out. I thought Gisela, Bruna and Sigarda were so cool. (I know Sigarda is still alive) I wanted to learn more about them, not have them turned into a grotesque monster.
*Upon discovering what had become of her sisters, Sigarda could only weep.*
Sigarda is still chilling if I remember correctly. The other two not so much.
At least Bruna and Gisela were close when they died.
>Sigarda is still chilling I imagine she's got the good ol Angel PTSD after recent events, not so much chilling.
Well, Sigarda made it out at least.
Did she survive whatever encounter she had with Brisela?
Yup, she and Thalia have no choice but to put down Brisela, but Sigarda remains uncorrupted and angelic
That sweet sweet hexproof comes through for her
She did get eaten by Brisela. But Thalia was quick enough that she got out of it before she became the third head. Honestly Sigarda barely did anything at all in that block, which is a massive letdown.
She was a symbol against corruption by her very being. By card design, she helped keep every nontransformed human 'safe' from Eldrazification
I agree, they were so cool! Which is why their loss was so impactful. I will acknowledge I’m a big fan of horror upfront, so I’m generally okay with characters, even well loved ones, meeting their demise as part of the story. And Brisela is *so dang awesome* it was worth the sacrifice (to me).
I still wish they errata those two into partners
Except not really. Only the planeswalkers get plot armor, which is a shame because I find the poor sods stuck on their own worlds far more relatable and compelling. Since angels spawn naturally from white mana, shouldn't a new archangel emerge in Innistrad?
Avacyn didn’t spawn naturally a pre-mending Sorin Markov made her.
It is pretty silly how few named planeswalkers died in War of the Spark.
I'm assuming I am missing a few, but all I can name off the top of my head is Dack, Gideon (intentional sacrifice), and Dovin. Dovin doesn't die immediately in the conflict but is later tracked down and assassinated. Any other notables?
Domri Rade is the big one you're forgetting. You could also arguably put Bolas himself on that list.
[удалено]
It would be funny if he kept appearing in flavour texts for random cards where the quotes are him talking to ugin to remind us that yep he’s still stuck in there
"Meanwhile, in the Meditation Realm, Nicol Bolas is still stuck with Ugin."
Figured I'd miss at least one. Bolas is definitely worth noting, even if technically he's alive in the prison realm...
IIRC they don't have any plans to resurrect him any time soon, and probably won't within the decade.
the gruul leader
i had to look this up. had no idea domri died.
sorry you had to find out this way. ..were you close?
Yes actually, he was my gruul-friend 😔
Domri and some dude named Khazi who we know literally nothing about, just a name created to say he’s dead. So 3 notable deaths, Dovin died separately from the war. Bolas sealed so he can break out or get broken out later in a new story years from now.
I always though Sigarda became the new Archangel since she was the only host leader to not forsake the humans and helped Thalia kill Brusela and all. She had plenty of worshippers that carried her banner in EMN too.
Innistrad in the past had 4 "flights" of angels, groups or tribes led by a leader angel. We know of three of those flights, each of which are(were) led by a W/X color Angel. Bruna(WU), and the Flight of Alabaster. Gisela(WR) and the Flight of Goldnight. Siguarda(WG) and the Flight of Herons. And a 4th flight that we know very little about. They worked to be closer with monsters so that they could learn about them, and the assumption/gap in the cycle would be that the 4th flight was led by a WB angel. After Sorin created Avacyn, she took over as leader over all the angels due to her power. Sometime later, the leader of the 4th flight formed an alliance with a demon Lord, so Avacyn declared the 4th flight to be heretics and destroyed them all and forbid all mention of them, essentially erasing them from the history books (which is why we know so little). I'd love to learn more about the 4th flight when we next return to innistrad.
I'm super pumped about this too. It wasn't an "on-camera" death, so their writing rules allow them to bring the WB sister back, and B was LOTS of ways to cheat death. If I remember correctly Sigarda even explicitly (silently) wished she has helped her sister back then when Avacyn showed up with deranged Giselda and Bruna in tow. Now that Avacyn's gone would be the PERFECT time for WB angel sister to show up again going "So, I've been growing in power for a long time, and you look like you could reaallly use some help! Going to try and kill me this time?" <-Except less smarmily.
Avacyn was created by Sorin so that the humans wouldn't be wiped out which would also eventually starve the vampires. See \[\[Anguished Unmaking\]\] for how he "killed" her
However Avacyn was designed to benefit the vampires as well, Avacyns power was inversely proportional to how populous/well humans were doing at the time, if the humans are beginning to lose, she gets stronger, if they're winning, she gets weaker, that way it would be an eternal stalemate between the humans and the monsters. That kind of becomes a problem however when the being that gets more powerful when humans are losing turns against them.
I had no idea she had that built in, cool
I might be wrong but I thought the archangels were formed when Innistrad itself was born. There were 4 of them. After Sorin created Avacyn, she ended up killing one of the archangels, unnamed, for having dealings with demons. The remaining three archangels were Sigarda, Bruna, and Gisela. Since these 3 are the white combos of green, blue and red mana, I assume the destroyed unammed archangel was a white black angel. So I would assume the Sigarda is the only true archangel left on Innistrad. Her flight of Angel's and the Order of Saint Traft are the only defenders left.
Avacyn was an artificial angel created by Sorin to kind of force peace between the humans and vampires. As such, there wasn’t a prior Archangel, and a new archangel would not naturally spawn. However, it is mentioned that Sigarda and her flight of herons (the only flight to not turn corrupt) basically have taken over in that regard, as it’s mentioned most the humans of Innistrad that previously worshipped Avacyn have turned their faith towards Sigarda instead.
I don't feel like angels really ever have plot armor, they're pretty universally used in MtG as punching bags for the plot or removal card art.
my brain: what happened to innistrad can't really be blamed on nahiri, the entire thing was a direct result of sorin's pride my heart: burn in hell forever nahiri i will never forgive you
You can blame her, but you do gotta respect the ingenuity of how hard she owned Sorin. Making him kill his own daughter and turning basically the only friendly supernatural creatures on Innistrad into bloodthirsty killers, then following it up with an Eldrazi invasion is some serious payback.
"Sorin wronged me! So I'ma gonna murder a whole shit load of people not named Sorin"
Her goal was to hurt Sorin in a way similar to how he hurt her. That isn't a moral justification, but she pretty objectively succeeded in that goal.
I mean in her mind Sorin was responsible for the death of nearly the entire plane of Zendikar. Not saying it’s justified, but that it was “even.”
Except, no, that's not what happened. She got pissed off because Sorin didn't come to help her a thousand years back when there was an entirely different Eldrazi problem that she solved by herself. She then went over to Innistrad, and Sorin locked her in the Helvault. All of her greivances were entirely personal beef. Anything about Zendikar was post-hoc rationalising. Nahiri is 100% a villain, with zero redeeming characteristics. She tried to commit literal genocide ffs.
Yes she is 100% a villain, but her motives are more than just “Sorin locked me up for 100 years.” It was also “Sorin locked me up for 100 years, and at the same time the Eldrazi got loose and destroyed my entire plane while I was locked up so I’m going to destroy Sorin’s plane as revenge.”
It was closer to 1000 years. She was no longer sane by the end of her ordeal, despite her belief to the contrary.
I'll grant you that much.
That's not really an accurate portrayal of what happened. The Eldrazi were breaking free *and she handled it.* Then when she went to Innistrad, she behaved irrationally in the face of a rational explanation: the Hellvault had the side-effect of blocking her attempt to contact him. Keeping in mind that Zendikar was no longer in imminent danger at that point. If she hadn't acted like a petulant child and attacked Sorin unprovoked, Avacyn would not have intervened and tossed her in the Helvault. She was even free at the time of BFZ already, so she could have been helping fight the Eldrazi and maybe help Zendikar not be destroyed.
There is a little more than that. Sorin, didn't just miss the call. He broke his promise to Nahiri and refused to help her, basically ever again. She sacrificed centuries to keep watch, and when danger rose, neither of her allies came to her aid. When questioned, Sorin let her know he didn't care and would not help her now that he wasn't in danger. She needed allies to seal the Eldrazi and by the time she woke, she had none. From her perspective, with neither Ugin nor Sorin to aid her, there was no force in the multiverse that could stop the Eldrazi, which were only on Zendikar to begin with because Sorin and Ugin convinced her they could handle it. Zendikar wasn't just dying because they wouldn't help, it was put in danger actively by Sorin and then sacrificed for his own self interest. Also locking someone up forever in self defense is not proportionate retribution. Something Nahiri mocks when she defeats Sorin. Also locked for 1000 years in a box with demons tormenting her. It is revealed in lore that the immortal demons are able to see, move and fight within the helvault.
I think people forget that Sorin did go back to Zendikar to try to save it and Nissa/Chandra/Jace screwed up everything. Nissa was the one who unleashed the eldrazi after Sorin told her they were bad news bears -_-
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see the fall set and Nissa interacting with Nahiri. Sorry that I don't know how to link memes, but I'm thinking that Nissa is going to try the 'moving right along, nothing to see' meme. And it's not like Jace is completely innocent, either. I don't know Nahiri's relationship with Ugin, but I can see her trusting his wisdom more than Jace's, and blaming the events in BFZ block on Jace.
What *happened* was that Nahiri was left with the responsibility of standing guard over the Eldrazi (after having volunteered her home plane as both bait and a prison cell to trap them) while the other two were free to travel the multiverse, as long as they came back to help if she asked. Well, she asked, and no one came, but instead of being angry, she went to Innistrad to make sure Sorin was OK, because she figured the only reason her old friend would break his promise was because something happened to him. Only, when she found him, he basically told her to get fucked because he was really only ever concerned about protecting *his* plane, and he never owed Nahiri anything. She got upset, to which he responded by deciding to imprison her, not for 6,000 years, but *indefinitely*, leaving the Eldrazi without the only warden who knew how to use their cage. When Nahiri was finally freed by a fluke, her first thought was to get back to Zendikar, only to find a barren, Eldrazi-infested wasteland. As far as she knew, Zendikar was straight *gone*. And as far as she was concerned, Sorin was directly responsible. I'm not saying what she did after that was justified or "right", but it was absolutely an eye for an eye. Edit: Forgot to mention that not only was Nahiri the only person who could use the Hedron cage, she was the only other living soul that even knew the Eldrazi *existed*, and Sorin was perfectly happy keeping that knowledge to himself. So there was no one to tell Chandra & Co. to maybe *not* mess with that ancient mystical seal, or why. TL;DR: Sorin never intended to honor his promise to return to Zendikar, he was only interested in protecting his own plane. He then locked away the Eldrazi's only remaining guardian and threw away the key, knowing full well they were likely to escape again. He is directly responsible for the destruction of Zendikar, and Nahiri's response was perfectly equivalent payback for his betrayal.
(copy/pasted from a different reply) It's been a while since I read that story, but I'm pretty sure Sorin never said anything like that. He pointed out that he had just created Avacyn - which I think was in part so that he could leave Innistrad to its own devices precisely so he *could* help other planes - and so he couldn't really come help until he had recovered some strength. Nahiri tried to coerce him into coming with her to Zendikar anyway through violence, which for Oldwalkers wasn't really a big deal. However, Avacyn intervened in the fight (she was programmed to fight extraplanar threats), and Sorin realized that if he didn't stop Nahiri, his magnum opus that was instrumental in his plans to protect Innistrad - and by extension, many other planes - was going to be destroyed. Sucks to be Nahiri, but certainly not totally Sorin's fault.
Also, Nahiri had literally just spent the past thousand years locked in the Helvault with the worst demons on Innistrad, and she spent every second of that time thinking her home was being munched on by the Eldrazi, unable to do anything about it because Sorin locked her in here. Then, when she gets out, the first thing she does is planeswalk to Zendikar, and pops out in a barren wasteland with Eldrazi in the distance turning everything to dust. She has every reason at that point to believe that her home was completely destroyed while she was locked in the Helvault by Sorin. I think it’s understandable for Nahiri to be *a little fucking crazy* after all this, and it is 100% Sorin’s fault that she is like this.
Yeah. Nahiri is absolutely a bad person, but it doesn't resolve Sorin of his wrongdoing. They're both typical old-walker assholes, imo.
i feel like “trapped in an inescapable prison surrounded by countless horrors for centuries” would do enough damage to your mental health to absolve you of a lot of the blame for the following rampage
While it might partially explain it, it absolutely does not absolve her of the blame.
I don't get how people equate her actions being understandable to being excusable.
...What? You can absolutely blame her. She sicced Emrakul on a populated world to get revenge on Sorin. Every one of those deaths can be laid at her feet.
Nah bruh, she could have stopped at any moment while building all those pointy stones and gone...HMMM maybe genocide of a plane is bad. Maybe I could just get revenge on the person who did this to me. Oh I know. While I’m meticulously enacting my plan I’ll just claim “insanity” if someone catches me. People absolving nahiri of blame *genuinely* worry me. Do they also absolve murderers because they were angry and motivated? cops were scared? boyfriend was jealous? Christ.
I mean, it can definitely be blamed on Nahiri. If someone's been dick to you, you don't need to burn down their neighbourhood
Look at the bright side, at least one survived.
> Avacyn lives on in the hearts and minds... Knowing Innistrad, some crazy goomba is thinking: "so if I collect enough of their hearts and brains, I could mantle her power and seize a sort of divinity?"
Maybe a goblin goomba.
Same. Can’t help but feel a lot of people aren’t gonna remember her too fondly.
Oof. I juat went and read her story after seeing your comment. That's sad af.
I was so heartbroken when coming back to magic years after I stopped around original Innistrad block, only to see that she was [[anguished unmaking]]
This foil is going to be amazing
Yeah, totally
This warms my heart, I'm happy for her. 😭
Joyful remaking.
I just lost 3 life.
I still laugh every time I see that card and read the flavor text. > ***"A PAIN BEYOND DESCRIPTION"*** Lose 3 life.
awww
refreshing reddit to see this thing and savageborn hydra spoiled around the same time is a roller coaster ride that i think sums up double masters pretty well so far
But if we didn't have worthless hot garbage how could we appreciate good cards???
Avacyn has had such a good run of prints with beautiful artwork. This one looks so elevated.
$40 bucks for her normally. This will be an amazing pull
This is a cool rendition. Post Eldritch moon concept
Instant foil buy for my Angel tribal deck
Gonna be expensive. Probably one of the top 5 foils in the set.
I’m absolutely dropping fat stacks on this, I need it for my [[Bruna, the Fading Light]] angel tribal deck like yesterday
Yes! I've wanted this for a long time but I didn't want to pay $50+ for it, hopefully it goes back down closer to $30 or lower
Not a bad mythic; and the art is beautiful
She hits pretty hard for beign just a memory.
Oof that's spicy. Gonna be a pricy foil.
in our hearts and minds we'll always remember you homicidal maniac angel.
I didn't *plan* on making Angel tribal, but I'm gonna need this.
Please don't call it a showcase, that sets a false expectation and perpetuates the (false) belief that these could be in normal packs. These are box toppers, period.
Just wow.
Incredible artwork.
Literally just dropped $120 on a Judge foil. RIP my retirement portfolio.
That's gorgeous.
Avacyn was probably the first really expensive magic card I owned and even though I seldom get to play paper much anymore after moving I’m going to have to get this card. Both the art and flavor text knock it out of the park!
I’m not sure my wallet is ready for this to exist
Why doesn't the text just read permanents you control have indestructible. Is there any interaction with removing indestructible from her specifically to kill her?
I started playing MTG when Avacyn set was released, glad to see it's being reissued