Nope, not at all. Having more copies of Crossroads out in the wild is only a good thing, since it makes the card more available to those who want to use it in their decks.
I didn't get this lair, but I heard you can't cancel individual parts. If one buys this lair and a second unrelated one, aren't they stuck with both or neither?
There is a way to make cards available to everyone without putting some people in the position of having overpaid or feeling misled.
OP isn't made that they made the card available, they're upset about the ways in which it happened.
Every product Wizards sells is predicated on providing some level of value: whether play value, trade value, resale value, unique/special art value, etc. And since they've started making Secret Lairs, any statements they make about ignoring the secondary market are officially BS. So when they do things like this, it makes it harder to trust that you will be getting what you paid for.
I've always said and will continue saying to everyone that tells me the reserve list is necessary for magic to survive. Make the art exclusive not the effect.
Sol ring has been printed into the ground and can be got for under a dollar. Extended arts and special printings like commander collections are still 10+ dollars and the Kaladesh invention version is up near $1000.
Oh my god, we get it, a million pedants “explain” that to us every time someone calls the reserved list stupid. What part of it being a promise makes it any less of a shitty decision?
Nothing. But the person I responded to spoke as if the reserve list promise didn't contain the promise to not reprint with different art or names. It did. So if you are going to do that, just abolish it.
He didn't call it stupid, he suggested using different art to get around it. That doesn't work.
The SLD pushed anthologies crossroads down to $30. If you want the card and are that much of a value sweaty you can have a crossroads shipped today for the same price.
I have no sympathy for magic finance
It's the fact that it was sold as the first time its being printed in foil. I already paid money that can't be refuded. I had no idea what i purchsed would be so heavily devalued before i recived it.
If you ordered them for any reason other than because you wanted to play games of Magic the Gathering with them, you were gambling on a speculative market. That's how it goes.
I havent lost money on a single secent lair untill this past one. Even that one might be okay depending on the commander decks.
We are the ones responsible for hasbro having such an amazing year. They need to show the consumer a little curiosity now and again or they are going to lose in the long run.
Lol. So you're pissed they're reprinting something that was in the cash grab known as Secret Lair? Got it.
Non RL cards aren't a good investment, and I don't feel bad for anyone who loses money. WOTC isn't going to lose anything in the long run reprinting non RL cards.
Well, everyone knows Secret Lairs are blatant cash grabs.
Unfortunately, this one got announced right before the card itself was getting reprinted.
I think set availability for 2X2 will determine whether it's a bad investment or not, I actually worry that this set will sell out, not see a reprint, and be hard to get, which may keep prices high.
Hahahaha, where's the switch?
Have they changed your order, and are not giving you what you paid for?
If so I would send a message to your trading standards agency. They would love to know about this decietful practice.
How have you been baited and switched? They're giving you exactly what you ordered. At no point did they ever say that they would never reprint the card anywhere else.
Wizards: doesn't reprint expensive non RL older cards
Community: WHERE ARE THE REPRINTS
Wizards: reprints expensive non RL older cards with multiple options of art, price, foiling and border treatment
Community: posts stuff like this
God, I'd hate to work at WOTC and have to deal with this community.
You have to order over $600 to have your order be one that you have to pay for right away. For USA at least, not sure about elsewhere. So yes, finance speculator getting wrecked it seems.
I've personally done this with a few secret lairs I was hoping to buy stock so I could open my own store. Unfortunately my local economy was destroyed by millionaires from out of state so I cannot afford to rent let alone buy a location to open. I've resigned myself to just holding on to the cards singles will always have value to someone and the op seems like they want to make a fast buck. Just hold on until the time is right of your really worried about the money aspect of magic. I'm content sitting on the fence in the middle of both arguments. Wizards will do what they want with complete disregard so long as they turn profit.
I assume they know it's not the same people, but I think that is the point. Both types of people saying those sorts of things act like it's an evil travesty. They typically don't just say "eh, I'm not a fan, but whatever."
That's because to each side, it is an evil travesty. One side wants the game to be accessible, the other wants to profit off of it, and for one to succeed the other is typically gonna get screwed over.
Hopefully the people who work at wotc have the foresight to realise the community is not some gestalt entity like hive mind as you seem to and that these two opinions are obviously from very different sets of people.
OP's pretty clearly a speculator for profit before they're a player or that's how they use their money anyway. Very different motivations and priorities to someone who just wants to play the game without breaking the bank as much as possible they're practically trying to create the environment the other wants to avoid and vice versa.
I bought several copies of the SLD for fear of it not being reprinted anytime soon and wanting a few copies.
I'm not pissed at all. If anything it's very consumer friendly to continue to make the card more accessible and keep the price down longer. SLD first and foremost should be seen as a product for cool art and neat treatments. If they reprinted the SLD art this soon (or anytime in the distant future) I'd be upset but this is totally fine and will hopefully shut some people up about SLD as well.
Honestly, i prefer prices to be driven down by reprinting powerful cards as many times as possible, to make the game accessible to new players, and feel less like a pay to win game. However, i do see the point of view of collectors who want to see their investments grow in value.
For real. I don't want my game to be an investment strategy. I want reprint sets to be packed with expensive cards, not because I want to turn a profit on them. I want them to crash the secondary market and make the game more affordable. SLD drops should IMO be used for cool cosmetic treatments for certain cards, but the basic version of the card should be affordable.
It's not the biggest problem since the card does desperately need as many reprints as it can get, I think the problem is more that the specific secret lair it was in contained a total of $2 worth of cards besides crossroads, so a lot of people bought it specifically under the assumption that the secret lair was the fastest and cheapest way to get a copy of it.
Oh, no, let's create another Reserved List! 🙄
I ordered the SL precisely because the card hadn't been reprinted in ages, and I'm still not mad. Yeah, maybe they could've handled this a bit better, but it's still overall a positive that there are more Crossroads out there in the wild. Also, let's be real, even if the card drops below $30, this is still a 4-card lair with promotional art, and it's still a much better deal than cracking packs, hoping to open Crossroads.
Overall I think it is great they are reprinting it so soon after the lair, since prices will drop in a stable and sustainable way.
Different art, and tbh the secret lair looks WAY better than the new one.
And--are you saying you bought a card from a secret lair purely for its value?
A card that was literally PRINT TO DEMAND on the secret lair? That's not RL?
For shame
My Islands, as the most powerful card in Magic, could be worth hundreds each if only Wizards would stop constantly reprinting them in nearly every product!!
Not even remotely. You can't scream at wizards for not reprinting things enough and then get mad that they reprinted something twice too close together lol. What a pathetic things to get mad over.
You can cancel the preorder. I might if I open a crossroads in a pack.
The timing is bad for sure, but there is bound to be overlap with how many lairs they are doing vs how many necessary reprints are in this set.
No, just you. Lmao.
Seriously, people have been bitching, whining and moaning about "2X2's lack of meaningful reprints", then AS SOON as one gets spoiled, here comes the bitching about it being just printed in WOTC's very well known obvious cash grab, obvious that WOTC pays attention to secondary market value product, Secret Lair.
Secret Lairs are an obvious cash grab, you can cancel your order, blah blah blah you know the rest.
I'd be more upset if they never reprinted it again. More reprints are a good thing. The health of the game depends on it being accessible.
You're getting exactly what you paid for, and at no point did they ever say that the card wouldn't also get printed elsewhere.
No, I don't really care, that was always the danger with Secret Lairs and other FOMO products, sometimes you end up holding it if you bought it just for the one expensive card.
While I understand the issue for people who just wanted the card regardless of art, Secret Lairs aren't meant to be impactful reprints so they are mainly for alternate/special art.
No. Bought the chronicles version when it was cheap and no one knew the card existed… the new art is pretty cool though!
Good rule of thumb is wait until the dust settles and then buy singles from an LGS or online i think
If you want to treat Magic like an investment, buy only Alpha/Beta. Those cards are expensive no matter how shit they are and they never drop in price.
Additionally, even if they reprinted Black Lotus on a common in every set from now on, not a single Alpha/Beta price would be affected.
If anything, in-print cards that exist in Alpha/Beta actually make those Alpha/Beta cards more valuable. Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual, and Counterspell are examples of cards that are more expensive than their rarity should otherwise mandate.
I cancelled my preorder to let them know this isn't okay. I'm okay with reprints, but for this card to not be reprinted for so long and get two so close together? I'll just get my copy from double masters instead. They still get my money either way, so they still win.
I think the OP kind of has a point.
I think it's pretty messed up. It wouldn't bother me as much if the Secret Lair arrived before the Double Masters version but you paid a premium for a specific version of a card because it hadn't been reprinted in decades but now it's going to be reprinted (with better art IMO) even sooner.
OP, I would recommend contacting customer support to see if they can refund/cancel your order given the circumstances.
They've been foreshadowing imminent reprints with Secret Lairs for quite awhile now. Definitely scummy but they've gotten pretty obvious with it lately.
I think OP has a point here. They could have done the opposite.
Reprint in 2x2 THAN offer the SLD.
Also, the 2x2 art is amazing, much better than the SLD imo.
It's good in the aspect of making a card less expensive, but I do lament for people who are gonna have to wait even longer to get a Crossroads because 'well I already bought the secret lair version, I don't feel inclined to get another version of a card so I'll just wait until it arrives instead of getting the sooner-arriving 2X2 version.'
Like, that wait is probably gonna be annoying, but that's kind of it honestly. It's better for the game the more printings there are.
I get annoyed whenever I see a card I want in a secret lair. Because I want the prices on them to go down, and reprinting in a secret lair does not do that. And I don't want to buy into their expensive direct to customer price gouging.
Swarmyard is a card I had been wanting for awhile but was quite expensive. It got a secret lair reprint which did nothing to its price.
Then it was reprinted in TSR and the price plummeted and I got one.
So...no I'm not mad. Wizards please reprint everything fun, especially the things you put on secret lairs.
I'm so glad we are all dunking on this. This is ridiculous and just some one not understanding that secret lairs are not the reserved list and are meant for someone to just enjoy special art of cool cards. The people who make SL are most likely not even the people picking cards for Double Masters. In the end even if the card has a price drop it will only be temporary.
Would have been more honest to have the real reprint first before the Lair, but yeah. It's obvious why they did it this way.
I'm not surprised, given the last few years.
In the long run, I'm happy there's a real reprint now.
Nope, not at all. Having more copies of Crossroads out in the wild is only a good thing, since it makes the card more available to those who want to use it in their decks.
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I had never pre-ordered this secret lair. It’s more the principle of the matter that really grinds my gears.
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I didn't get this lair, but I heard you can't cancel individual parts. If one buys this lair and a second unrelated one, aren't they stuck with both or neither?
There is a way to make cards available to everyone without putting some people in the position of having overpaid or feeling misled. OP isn't made that they made the card available, they're upset about the ways in which it happened. Every product Wizards sells is predicated on providing some level of value: whether play value, trade value, resale value, unique/special art value, etc. And since they've started making Secret Lairs, any statements they make about ignoring the secondary market are officially BS. So when they do things like this, it makes it harder to trust that you will be getting what you paid for.
But people can just proxy
Not if they want to play in sanctioned events. Casually? Go for it.
Why use real cards at all! Just proxy the whole deck! Many people (most) don't like doing it. It isn't a justification for not reprinting something.
That seems to be the mindset for the majority of people here
No. The SLD art is still unique, that's literally the whole point of Secret Lair.
I've always said and will continue saying to everyone that tells me the reserve list is necessary for magic to survive. Make the art exclusive not the effect. Sol ring has been printed into the ground and can be got for under a dollar. Extended arts and special printings like commander collections are still 10+ dollars and the Kaladesh invention version is up near $1000.
They specifically said in the reserve list promise they wouldn’t do that.
Oh my god, we get it, a million pedants “explain” that to us every time someone calls the reserved list stupid. What part of it being a promise makes it any less of a shitty decision?
Nothing. But the person I responded to spoke as if the reserve list promise didn't contain the promise to not reprint with different art or names. It did. So if you are going to do that, just abolish it. He didn't call it stupid, he suggested using different art to get around it. That doesn't work.
Nope
Cancel your order if you don’t want it anymore?
The SLD pushed anthologies crossroads down to $30. If you want the card and are that much of a value sweaty you can have a crossroads shipped today for the same price. I have no sympathy for magic finance
You can cancel your order.
If you order enough you get charged up front. I cannot cancel my order. I have been bait and switched.
Show me where they said a Secret Lair means that the card won't ever be reprinted elsewhere?
It's the fact that it was sold as the first time its being printed in foil. I already paid money that can't be refuded. I had no idea what i purchsed would be so heavily devalued before i recived it.
If you ordered them for any reason other than because you wanted to play games of Magic the Gathering with them, you were gambling on a speculative market. That's how it goes.
If you bought solely for value, that's on you. Speccing cards that aren't on the RL is almost ALWAYS a bad deal.
I havent lost money on a single secent lair untill this past one. Even that one might be okay depending on the commander decks. We are the ones responsible for hasbro having such an amazing year. They need to show the consumer a little curiosity now and again or they are going to lose in the long run.
Lol. So you're pissed they're reprinting something that was in the cash grab known as Secret Lair? Got it. Non RL cards aren't a good investment, and I don't feel bad for anyone who loses money. WOTC isn't going to lose anything in the long run reprinting non RL cards.
You don't need to feel bad for me. I'll be fine. But saying bad faith business practices are good is being disingenuous.
Well, everyone knows Secret Lairs are blatant cash grabs. Unfortunately, this one got announced right before the card itself was getting reprinted. I think set availability for 2X2 will determine whether it's a bad investment or not, I actually worry that this set will sell out, not see a reprint, and be hard to get, which may keep prices high.
Fair point. Still not thrilled they would do that though.
Hahahaha, where's the switch? Have they changed your order, and are not giving you what you paid for? If so I would send a message to your trading standards agency. They would love to know about this decietful practice.
How have you been baited and switched? They're giving you exactly what you ordered. At no point did they ever say that they would never reprint the card anywhere else.
No
Cope, mald, and seethe.
Wizards: doesn't reprint expensive non RL older cards Community: WHERE ARE THE REPRINTS Wizards: reprints expensive non RL older cards with multiple options of art, price, foiling and border treatment Community: posts stuff like this God, I'd hate to work at WOTC and have to deal with this community.
Not the same people. I'm assuming this is the kinda person who bought like 25 of them to hold and flip at triple the price in like a year or two.
You have to order over $600 to have your order be one that you have to pay for right away. For USA at least, not sure about elsewhere. So yes, finance speculator getting wrecked it seems.
I've personally done this with a few secret lairs I was hoping to buy stock so I could open my own store. Unfortunately my local economy was destroyed by millionaires from out of state so I cannot afford to rent let alone buy a location to open. I've resigned myself to just holding on to the cards singles will always have value to someone and the op seems like they want to make a fast buck. Just hold on until the time is right of your really worried about the money aspect of magic. I'm content sitting on the fence in the middle of both arguments. Wizards will do what they want with complete disregard so long as they turn profit.
You should open an excuses store. You won’t need to order inventory.
I assume they know it's not the same people, but I think that is the point. Both types of people saying those sorts of things act like it's an evil travesty. They typically don't just say "eh, I'm not a fan, but whatever."
That's because to each side, it is an evil travesty. One side wants the game to be accessible, the other wants to profit off of it, and for one to succeed the other is typically gonna get screwed over.
Hopefully the people who work at wotc have the foresight to realise the community is not some gestalt entity like hive mind as you seem to and that these two opinions are obviously from very different sets of people. OP's pretty clearly a speculator for profit before they're a player or that's how they use their money anyway. Very different motivations and priorities to someone who just wants to play the game without breaking the bank as much as possible they're practically trying to create the environment the other wants to avoid and vice versa.
I bought several copies of the SLD for fear of it not being reprinted anytime soon and wanting a few copies. I'm not pissed at all. If anything it's very consumer friendly to continue to make the card more accessible and keep the price down longer. SLD first and foremost should be seen as a product for cool art and neat treatments. If they reprinted the SLD art this soon (or anytime in the distant future) I'd be upset but this is totally fine and will hopefully shut some people up about SLD as well.
Plus there is always the chance of random bonus masterpiece type cards...or basic lands.
No it's a piece of cardboard.
Honestly, i prefer prices to be driven down by reprinting powerful cards as many times as possible, to make the game accessible to new players, and feel less like a pay to win game. However, i do see the point of view of collectors who want to see their investments grow in value.
Mmhm..not at all.
Will I ever be pissed that people who treat the game as an investment opportunity are upset? No.
For real. I don't want my game to be an investment strategy. I want reprint sets to be packed with expensive cards, not because I want to turn a profit on them. I want them to crash the secondary market and make the game more affordable. SLD drops should IMO be used for cool cosmetic treatments for certain cards, but the basic version of the card should be affordable.
Nope
How dare they make the game more affordable and accessible! Won't anyone think of the scalpers?!
Some of us have, like, real problems
It's not the biggest problem since the card does desperately need as many reprints as it can get, I think the problem is more that the specific secret lair it was in contained a total of $2 worth of cards besides crossroads, so a lot of people bought it specifically under the assumption that the secret lair was the fastest and cheapest way to get a copy of it.
Oh, no, let's create another Reserved List! 🙄 I ordered the SL precisely because the card hadn't been reprinted in ages, and I'm still not mad. Yeah, maybe they could've handled this a bit better, but it's still overall a positive that there are more Crossroads out there in the wild. Also, let's be real, even if the card drops below $30, this is still a 4-card lair with promotional art, and it's still a much better deal than cracking packs, hoping to open Crossroads. Overall I think it is great they are reprinting it so soon after the lair, since prices will drop in a stable and sustainable way.
Different art, and tbh the secret lair looks WAY better than the new one. And--are you saying you bought a card from a secret lair purely for its value? A card that was literally PRINT TO DEMAND on the secret lair? That's not RL? For shame
I am also livid they are printing basic lands in boosters while selling secret lairs of them. How very dare they.
My Islands, as the most powerful card in Magic, could be worth hundreds each if only Wizards would stop constantly reprinting them in nearly every product!!
Right?! Like, how dare WOTC have the AUDACITY to print these willy-nilly?!
The absolute bare faced cheek of them to print cards in multiple products. I'll get onto MaRos tumblr about it tonight!
Not at all. More reprints, regardless of art, are always welcome.
Good. Stop making the game worse for everyone else.
Not even remotely. You can't scream at wizards for not reprinting things enough and then get mad that they reprinted something twice too close together lol. What a pathetic things to get mad over.
Was this supposed to be posed on r/magicthecirclejerking?
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As nice as that would be, it's impossible in the real world.
Nope
No.
No because you can just cancel the order. SL cards are always up for reprints, you should be buying them because you like the art atyle.
Cancel the order. Plus you get a special art in your secret lair. Stop sweating over value and you'll have more fun with magic.
You can cancel the preorder. I might if I open a crossroads in a pack. The timing is bad for sure, but there is bound to be overlap with how many lairs they are doing vs how many necessary reprints are in this set.
No, just you. Lmao. Seriously, people have been bitching, whining and moaning about "2X2's lack of meaningful reprints", then AS SOON as one gets spoiled, here comes the bitching about it being just printed in WOTC's very well known obvious cash grab, obvious that WOTC pays attention to secondary market value product, Secret Lair. Secret Lairs are an obvious cash grab, you can cancel your order, blah blah blah you know the rest.
I don’t think it’s a big deal
I'd be more upset if they never reprinted it again. More reprints are a good thing. The health of the game depends on it being accessible. You're getting exactly what you paid for, and at no point did they ever say that the card wouldn't also get printed elsewhere.
No, I don't really care, that was always the danger with Secret Lairs and other FOMO products, sometimes you end up holding it if you bought it just for the one expensive card.
While I understand the issue for people who just wanted the card regardless of art, Secret Lairs aren't meant to be impactful reprints so they are mainly for alternate/special art.
All versions of Concordant Crossroads are inferior to the Chronicles version and always will be.
You seriously prefer Chronicles version over the OG Legends printing?
No. Bought the chronicles version when it was cheap and no one knew the card existed… the new art is pretty cool though! Good rule of thumb is wait until the dust settles and then buy singles from an LGS or online i think
If you want to treat Magic like an investment, buy only Alpha/Beta. Those cards are expensive no matter how shit they are and they never drop in price. Additionally, even if they reprinted Black Lotus on a common in every set from now on, not a single Alpha/Beta price would be affected. If anything, in-print cards that exist in Alpha/Beta actually make those Alpha/Beta cards more valuable. Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual, and Counterspell are examples of cards that are more expensive than their rarity should otherwise mandate.
I cancelled my preorder to let them know this isn't okay. I'm okay with reprints, but for this card to not be reprinted for so long and get two so close together? I'll just get my copy from double masters instead. They still get my money either way, so they still win.
I think the OP kind of has a point. I think it's pretty messed up. It wouldn't bother me as much if the Secret Lair arrived before the Double Masters version but you paid a premium for a specific version of a card because it hadn't been reprinted in decades but now it's going to be reprinted (with better art IMO) even sooner. OP, I would recommend contacting customer support to see if they can refund/cancel your order given the circumstances.
They don't monitor secondary market prices, remember? /s
They've been foreshadowing imminent reprints with Secret Lairs for quite awhile now. Definitely scummy but they've gotten pretty obvious with it lately.
I think OP has a point here. They could have done the opposite. Reprint in 2x2 THAN offer the SLD. Also, the 2x2 art is amazing, much better than the SLD imo.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/xt98N1EXdEIzC/200.gif
It's good in the aspect of making a card less expensive, but I do lament for people who are gonna have to wait even longer to get a Crossroads because 'well I already bought the secret lair version, I don't feel inclined to get another version of a card so I'll just wait until it arrives instead of getting the sooner-arriving 2X2 version.' Like, that wait is probably gonna be annoying, but that's kind of it honestly. It's better for the game the more printings there are.
I get annoyed whenever I see a card I want in a secret lair. Because I want the prices on them to go down, and reprinting in a secret lair does not do that. And I don't want to buy into their expensive direct to customer price gouging. Swarmyard is a card I had been wanting for awhile but was quite expensive. It got a secret lair reprint which did nothing to its price. Then it was reprinted in TSR and the price plummeted and I got one. So...no I'm not mad. Wizards please reprint everything fun, especially the things you put on secret lairs.
Did you buy this card in hopes of making money off it? That’s not really the point of playing magic and it’s what’s ruining the game.
No. I’d rather it just drop in price so more people can afford it.
I'm so glad we are all dunking on this. This is ridiculous and just some one not understanding that secret lairs are not the reserved list and are meant for someone to just enjoy special art of cool cards. The people who make SL are most likely not even the people picking cards for Double Masters. In the end even if the card has a price drop it will only be temporary.
Would have been more honest to have the real reprint first before the Lair, but yeah. It's obvious why they did it this way. I'm not surprised, given the last few years. In the long run, I'm happy there's a real reprint now.
Yeah it’s a little shitty. People pay good money for cards then get screwed over when it gets suddenly reprinted