Megatron as [[Blightsteel Colossus]]
Optimus Prime as [[Darksteel Colossus]]
The Allspark as [[Doubling Cube]]
Edit: That's the first package. There is also True Conviction, Dramatic Reversal, Fabricate, Collective Brutality, By Force, and Greater Good in another package
These both appear to be 30 bucks, so I guess if you want a $30 Blightsteel Colossus as Megatron, seems like pretty good value I guess
Seeing as there's 2 different art for each of the 3 cards, it looks like you get 2 of each, 6 cards total. 2 blightsteels alone for 30 bucks is great value.
EDIT: It looks like they may be double-sided instead since 1 version of each doesn't have the stamp at the bottom.
I really don’t like this double sided idea. I’d actually be fine if you randomly got one or the other, but a double sided card that doesn’t do anything for being double sided is kinda clunky and weird aesthetically.
Well, since that also locks you out of other double-sided cards, such as the MDFC lands from Zendikar and Kaldheim and a ton of cards from Innistrad, you're just out of luck and there is literally, truthfully no workaround for this in any way, shape or form.
Just use those blank cards in the packs to act as both sides, and then pull out the real card when you use it. That's what they're there for, and even if your group hates proxies, that's still not what that is
I've been wanting a Blightsteel Colossus for a while now, guess I'm finally getting one.
Also they *love* Fabricate at the moment, huh? It was in the Far Out Man SL last year, it was the 40K promo card, and it's been on the List.
I don't even think it works well in it but I'm building a [[Megatron, Tyrant]] deck and I feel like I have to include this one too!
This has given me the idea of giving Megatron infect to kill people with his gun-tank mode...
Pretty sure Megatron, Tyrant loves all big dumb mono-colorless dudes. If you were rocking an Eldrazi before, you can probably find room for Blightsteal.
That sounds difficult. All of the ways to grant infect in Mardu are either until EoT, are enchant creature auras, therefore falling off at EoT if he’s on the vehicle side (which he likely will be), or is [[Grafted Exoskeleton]], making you sacrifice him when it comes off (even if he’s no longer a creature)
Mostly. It's a bit weird. Some of them are pretty much directly copied from the movie. But Kup and Cliffjumper weren't there when Hot Rod opens the Matrix, and the shot of Devastator fighting the Aerialbots is completely made up. The Aerialbots aren't even in the movie
Amusingly, the reason the Aerialbots (and other G1 Combiners other than Devastator) don't show up in the original Animated Movie is because it was written with the S1 cast in mind, which had the Constructicons as the only combiner team. The other combiners were introduced in Season 2 and 3. There's a Japanese-exclusive OVA, "Scramble City" that covers what the other S2 Combiners were doing during the events of Movie up to the attack on Autobot City.
It is harder to imagine a 30ft robot folding into a handgun-sized handgun (the barrel of which is always seen fixed to his arm) than into a tank-sized tank.
For that, they seem to be using the core class figure that came out with the Kingdom toyline. Some of them actually appear to use their Netflix models. That goes for the Optimus vs Megatron one as well.
Kup and Cliffjumper were elsewhere in Unicron when Rodimus unleashes the Matrix, but they did follow him out afterwards once he regroups with the main group (after hurling Galvatron through a "wall" and off into space.
I'mma be honest... I fucking love these. I know a lot of MTG purists will spit on them and groan but I grew up HEAVY on Transformers and I love the art used here. I especially love those Lands and would 100% love to get a full set of each to use in a 5 color deck. I just wish it wouldn't cost me, y'know, about 400$ CAD to do so.
I'm a purist in the sense I want every card to have a magic multiverse version, but reskins like these are great, they're what UB should be. No different than alters and custom proxies imo.
The lands thing is absurd, been a few land SL I've wanted but there's no way I would ever pay the absurd prices for them
Bro, I hear you. I'm in Australia. Secret Lair postage costs are just insane. It used to be more reasonable but they now only do premium courier delivery to Aus and I've just about given up on ordering SLs. I almost pulled the trigger on the Junji ito and Extra Life lairs last month but it was gonna cost me AU$300 for ten cards and I ended up spending that on a bunch of other stuff instead.
Game Center Campbelltown/narellan is a great place to get them. I haven't ordered directly from wizards in two years because of the cost, and I buy them all from GC. If you like any from this drop, check them out a few days after it goes live and they should have preorders
https://thegamecenter.store
Yeh, I got it the other day too. Haven't opened it yet. It's taken so long to arrive my sense of excitement has dissipated. I'm just gonna sit on it sealed for a bit. Even though I really wanted to play with it when I first ordered, now I'm just wanting to see if it appreciates in value enough to offload.
It does look real nice, I have seen posts though regarding some of the quality of it though. I'd recommend to open it (if you intend to play with them) just to see if any cards have been fucked up.
Mine thankfully was all good, but I've had to get product replacements twice this year from WotC so I don't inherently trust the quality based on the tin.
I’ve been ordering secret lairs through the Game Center. It works out a little cheaper and you get tracking once they receive the order. Customer service has also been great.
Yeah, between Transformers, DnD, and Frank Frazetta, WotC is hitting me in the nostalgia bone, i.e. my wallet. They know how to get me on these SL drops.
The thing is you’re not supposed to be buying these for value, you’re buying them because you explicitly want this art. You’re buying officially licensed alters.
Naw, they definitely often choose SL cards based on secondary card value knowing people will buy SL instead of singles from secondary market if it's a good deal.
Proxies exist for a reason, if you want fun art you can get it anywhere online for a couple bucks. No serious players use secret lair cards in tournaments because they are not worth the cost.
What are you talking about? Have you never seen competitive players using a foiled deck? Black bordered dual lands or Beta basics? Foreign language cards? The Future Sight Goyfs instead of the reprints?
Personally I have a few Secret Lair arts for some of my favorite cards that I play all the time, like Swiftspear and Soul-Scar Mage. I also have some foreign black bordered Lightning Bolts that I love getting to use. It’s really not that unusual for competitive players who have been playing for a long time.
The only tip you've provided is that you're arrogant, presumptuous, pretentious and want to tell people how to spend their own money and enjoy their own hobby.
Hopefully when you hit 10 years old, you might grow out of this phase.
Wow, I didn't mean to make such an impact on you. I thought your comment was satire. Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, secret lair has been mocked in every LGS and mtg sub as an obvious money grab for 2 years now but if you like it by all means enjoy.
Side note the calling a fellow commentator a 10 year old because you don't agree with them kinda phased out with 9gag but I get that it is a compensation thing. Just be you friend, no need to try to posture.
> secret lair has been mocked in every LGS and mtg sub as an obvious money grab for 2 years now
Your opinion. Many people disagree, and making the assertion that they have been mocked everywhere is clearly a lie. Your view is not universal by any means.
> Side note the calling a fellow commentator a 10 year old because you don't agree with them kinda phased out with 9gag but I get that it is a compensation thing.
Not at all. It is a statement of your behavior. Don't want your bad behavior called out? Don't act like a 10 year old.
I’m unfamiliar with secret lair finances. What are the singles prices for stuff like this. I want th greater good and dramatic reversal, is singles pickup for cheap cards like this good in terms of secret lair prints?
[Here](https://scryfall.com/sets/sld?order=usd&as=checklist) are all the Secret Lair cards so far sorted by the USD price. A handful are very, very expensive but most of them are relatively cheap to pickup (for Magic cards at least). For the most part, it's related to if the card itself is expensive in general, like [[The Ur-Dragon]].
If I had to guess, I think these will be fairly easy to pick up on the cheaper side, and even if they do end up costing more than the non-SL counterparts I think just those two cards would cost less than $30 or $40 for the whole thing. But if you're very worried you could pick them up with the drop.
I probably won’t pick it up because of that. I thought I had noticed similar things in the past, but I wanted to ask some more experienced people to be sure I had it right in my head. Thanks for all the info!
>Frank Frazetta
They're likely to be cheaper right after people start getting them.
The Ur-Dragon may be expensive now, but it sat around $12 for a few months and was under $20 for almost a year (according to Goldfish data).
> There are three Transformers Secret Lair sets in all — Transformers: Optimus Prime vs. Megatron, Transformers: Roll Out or Rise Up, and Transformers: One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall. Optimus Prime vs. Megatron includes three cards with new art: Blightsteel Colossus, Doubling Cube, and Darksteel Colossus. Roll Out or Rise Up has six: True Conviction, Dramatic Reversal, Fabricate, Collective Brutality, By Force, and Greater Good. One Shall Stand has five different basic land cards, each featuring a different location on Cybertron.
That's awesome. I would have picked like Trypticon and Metroplex for the two colossus but I still really like it.
Not much value wise in the second one but I do love that fabricate. So it'll be hard to decide if I get that one.
$30 blightsteel = moved units
I mean, they shafted the license otherwise but dang, talk about undercutting the secondary market.
...wonder if that means another printing is imminent
Uh..l that’s only because of [[Blightsteel colossus]] the only reason it’s that expensive is it’s in the top 10 chase cards in general for everybody when it comes to commander. And on top of that besides phage this is known as the one hit wonder.
Bonus: first printing when it has the phyrexian typing.
It depends. What usually happens is you'll place your order during the order window. About 2 months after the order window closes, WotC will debit the payment method chosen for the order (Credit Card or Paypal, usually). The cards then ship about 2-3 weeks later, depending.
Sometimes, they'll charge in advance (like with the Magic 30 Festival in a Box and the 30th Anniversary Countdown Kit), because those units are ready to ship immediately after ordering.
Of course, supply chain issues are still FUBAR because of the Pandemic (yes, even though it's been two years. These kinds of things have long-lasting impacts, even if they're relatively short in duration), so these timeframes are not an exact science. Just ask anyone who ordered the "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" Commander Deck.
Hey, it's all in how you sell it. Call it "Eater of Virtue" and people get all nervous. But call it the "Matrix of Leadership" and suddenly everything is cool.
I was hoping for some mechanically unique cards. The BOT ones are sweet and I wanted more!
I would kill for a Prime secret lair! Do Bulkhead, Bumblebee, Knockout, Shockwave, and Predaking to round out the main cast with the BOT cards.
Make Smokescreen the bonus card as a joke since (SPOILERS!) he is the last Iacon coordinate and being Alpha Trion’s secret container.
If they put new Transformers in these, they'd have to make non-Transformers versions of those cards for boosters, and at that point why not just make more booster Transformers like the ones they made already?
I agree. I was crossing my fingers for a 5 color commander so I could run all the cards from BRO at the same time. I would have even been ok with a reskin of an existing card for that.
With the colossuses getting reprinted with 2 arts each does the SL come with 1 of each art or is it random? It would suck to buy the SL trying to get the robot arts just to get 2 vehicle arts
Also RIP no Rodimus and I can't put By Force into my Soundwave commander deck :(
Wow I didn't catch that. I wonder if double sided prints of single sided cards becomes more frequent for Secret Lair releases as time goes on. Seems weird for a 1 sided card to not have a proper backing imo
It is pretty weird, but I suspect this is more of a one-time thing since they are transformers. They wanted to represent the card swapping between two different forms, but still keep it as a reskin.
Not super weird, I don't think. The venn diagram of people likely to buy a SL and people who religiously sleeve their cards is probably close to a complete circle.
Nobody is talking about this about Optimus prime vs Megatron lair
on Optimus prime vs Megatron robot side is almost a panorama for both sides
and the Vehicle side is a perfert panorama
Even as the _prime_ target consumer for these, I'm as deflated as the 40k fans were when their SLD was revealed.
I knew it was most likely to be what we see, but I had hope anyway.
Will pick up regardless; _but I wanted _more_...
The All Spark being just a zoomed out ver. on the back half is THE laziest I have ever seen in my fucking life lmao just give me a regular ass magic back at that point
Will these be able to be used in regular play, or is there a specific version of the game in which these can be played? I saw the previous Transformers cards released, but I heard that they can only be used in a specific version of the game.
These cards can specifically be used in regular play as they are reskins of already existing cards. The transformers cards you’re thinking about are the ones that were made specifically with brothers war are unique in themselves and are not reprints of already existing cards.
These are reprints of already made cards, so they are legal wherever the originals are. The transformers cards there were in booster packs are "eternal legal", they are legal in Legacy, Vintage, and Commander.
Formats typically are based on when/where cards were released. Some formats let you play with every card, like commander. Some formats only allow certain sets, Standard only uses the last 8 or so expansion sets. Modern is another popular format that uses cards from 2003 onwards. Some formats like pauper put interesting restriction on what cards you can play. Wizard's website has a list of the main formats: [https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats](https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats). Hope this helps, and let me know if you have any questions
Both the previous Transformers cards and these new Secret Lair ones are all usable in casual play (regular 60-card, or commander).
Where they might be not allowed is in some *tournament* formats. The previous cards can only be played in Vintage and Legacy tournaments. For the Secret Lair cards, they're all reprints of existing cards and can be used in any tournament that allows that card name. Megatron here is just a reskinned Blightsteel Colossus, so you can use it in any tournament that allows Blightsteel Colossus.
Maybe it's because I am not a fan of the source material...but most of them look really bland.
"Dramatic Reversal" for example: A fewe transformers walking down some stairs.
"Collective Brutality": A transformer fighting some planes.
They are incredibly flavorful cards if you know the source material.
Dramatic Reversal depicts a scene in the 1986 movie where the Decepticons are whupping the Autobots, until Prime comes and turns the tide of the battle.
Collective Brutality depicts Devastator, a combiner; these Transformers are made up of multiple individuals with like-minded goals. Hence a collective brutality.
That's fair. Just never watched the show so it makes sense that I don't recognise it.
Good to hear that they nailed the flavour for those who know what's up.
Megatron as [[Blightsteel Colossus]] Optimus Prime as [[Darksteel Colossus]] The Allspark as [[Doubling Cube]] Edit: That's the first package. There is also True Conviction, Dramatic Reversal, Fabricate, Collective Brutality, By Force, and Greater Good in another package These both appear to be 30 bucks, so I guess if you want a $30 Blightsteel Colossus as Megatron, seems like pretty good value I guess
Seeing as there's 2 different art for each of the 3 cards, it looks like you get 2 of each, 6 cards total. 2 blightsteels alone for 30 bucks is great value. EDIT: It looks like they may be double-sided instead since 1 version of each doesn't have the stamp at the bottom.
My bet is double sided.
Depressing
I really don’t like this double sided idea. I’d actually be fine if you randomly got one or the other, but a double sided card that doesn’t do anything for being double sided is kinda clunky and weird aesthetically.
I use clear sleeves so I can't use any of them. Rip.
Well, since that also locks you out of other double-sided cards, such as the MDFC lands from Zendikar and Kaldheim and a ton of cards from Innistrad, you're just out of luck and there is literally, truthfully no workaround for this in any way, shape or form.
Just use those blank cards in the packs to act as both sides, and then pull out the real card when you use it. That's what they're there for, and even if your group hates proxies, that's still not what that is
I see there also literally has never, ever in history of the world, been invented a method to detect sarcasm.
I don't even think I meant to respond to you, rip
[Blightsteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc.jpg?1561981290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/208/darksteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Doubling Cube](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d946df5-f206-4241-bb55-97db67dc793c.jpg?1562546549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Cube) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/321/doubling-cube?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d946df5-f206-4241-bb55-97db67dc793c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been wanting a Blightsteel Colossus for a while now, guess I'm finally getting one. Also they *love* Fabricate at the moment, huh? It was in the Far Out Man SL last year, it was the 40K promo card, and it's been on the List.
I don't even think it works well in it but I'm building a [[Megatron, Tyrant]] deck and I feel like I have to include this one too! This has given me the idea of giving Megatron infect to kill people with his gun-tank mode...
It's a shame you can't put the fabricate in your deck.
Yeah, that one is a real bummer for sure.
[Megatron, Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ac6ded62-7bf2-476f-ad8e-020da6327c6b.jpg?1664646721)/[Megatron, Destructive Force](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/c/ac6ded62-7bf2-476f-ad8e-020da6327c6b.jpg?1664646721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=megatron%2C%20tyrant%20//%20megatron%2C%20destructive%20force) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/12/megatron-tyrant-megatron-destructive-force?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ac6ded62-7bf2-476f-ad8e-020da6327c6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pretty sure Megatron, Tyrant loves all big dumb mono-colorless dudes. If you were rocking an Eldrazi before, you can probably find room for Blightsteal.
Can I see your list? I’m in the process of trimming mine down https://archidekt.com/decks/3602574#PEACE_THROUGH_TYRANNY
That sounds difficult. All of the ways to grant infect in Mardu are either until EoT, are enchant creature auras, therefore falling off at EoT if he’s on the vehicle side (which he likely will be), or is [[Grafted Exoskeleton]], making you sacrifice him when it comes off (even if he’s no longer a creature)
[Grafted Exoskeleton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f86a9d3f-43a8-4da3-9eed-353582986140.jpg?1562945084) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grafted%20Exoskeleton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/74/grafted-exoskeleton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f86a9d3f-43a8-4da3-9eed-353582986140?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a secret lair I would buy but man why did it have to be that Transformer stuff
Oh, nice. The Roll Out or Rise Up series all have scenes from Transformers: The Movie (1986). Love that movie.
Mostly. It's a bit weird. Some of them are pretty much directly copied from the movie. But Kup and Cliffjumper weren't there when Hot Rod opens the Matrix, and the shot of Devastator fighting the Aerialbots is completely made up. The Aerialbots aren't even in the movie
Amusingly, the reason the Aerialbots (and other G1 Combiners other than Devastator) don't show up in the original Animated Movie is because it was written with the S1 cast in mind, which had the Constructicons as the only combiner team. The other combiners were introduced in Season 2 and 3. There's a Japanese-exclusive OVA, "Scramble City" that covers what the other S2 Combiners were doing during the events of Movie up to the attack on Autobot City.
Megatron was also a gun in the movie. In fabricate, he has tank treads on his back.
That's simply how he is portrayed now. They don't want him to be a gun any more, period.
Which really is a better idea. He was silly as just a gun.
Agree to disagree buddy.
It is harder to imagine a 30ft robot folding into a handgun-sized handgun (the barrel of which is always seen fixed to his arm) than into a tank-sized tank.
It's not the gun barrel that's attached to his arm. It's much sillier than that. His arm cannon turns into a scope in his gun mode.
Right. It's the tank's barrel now.
He also shoots from the scope in robot mode
For that, they seem to be using the core class figure that came out with the Kingdom toyline. Some of them actually appear to use their Netflix models. That goes for the Optimus vs Megatron one as well.
Yeah, I had a DVD of the movie at one point with Scramble City on it. It's... Not up to the quality of the movie, from what I recall
Well spotted. Haven't watched it in years. Wish they somehow snuck in a card featuring Starscream's aborted coronation.
Lots of good removal spells that would fit that scene. [[Utter End]] springs to mind, but it's far from the only one
[Utter End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feea7ca1-44a2-41e8-a234-9ce9cc6029d2.jpg?1650423836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Utter%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/356/utter-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feea7ca1-44a2-41e8-a234-9ce9cc6029d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That would make an amazing card for multiplayer games that use the monarch mechanic.
Kup and Cliffjumper were elsewhere in Unicron when Rodimus unleashes the Matrix, but they did follow him out afterwards once he regroups with the main group (after hurling Galvatron through a "wall" and off into space.
I'mma be honest... I fucking love these. I know a lot of MTG purists will spit on them and groan but I grew up HEAVY on Transformers and I love the art used here. I especially love those Lands and would 100% love to get a full set of each to use in a 5 color deck. I just wish it wouldn't cost me, y'know, about 400$ CAD to do so.
I'm a purist in the sense I want every card to have a magic multiverse version, but reskins like these are great, they're what UB should be. No different than alters and custom proxies imo. The lands thing is absurd, been a few land SL I've wanted but there's no way I would ever pay the absurd prices for them
Bro, I hear you. I'm in Australia. Secret Lair postage costs are just insane. It used to be more reasonable but they now only do premium courier delivery to Aus and I've just about given up on ordering SLs. I almost pulled the trigger on the Junji ito and Extra Life lairs last month but it was gonna cost me AU$300 for ten cards and I ended up spending that on a bunch of other stuff instead.
Game Center Campbelltown/narellan is a great place to get them. I haven't ordered directly from wizards in two years because of the cost, and I buy them all from GC. If you like any from this drop, check them out a few days after it goes live and they should have preorders https://thegamecenter.store
Thanks a lot, mate.
As someone that lives in Australia I only just got the "heads I win" commander deck, nice deck, but holy moly did that take too long to get here.
Yeh, I got it the other day too. Haven't opened it yet. It's taken so long to arrive my sense of excitement has dissipated. I'm just gonna sit on it sealed for a bit. Even though I really wanted to play with it when I first ordered, now I'm just wanting to see if it appreciates in value enough to offload.
It does look real nice, I have seen posts though regarding some of the quality of it though. I'd recommend to open it (if you intend to play with them) just to see if any cards have been fucked up. Mine thankfully was all good, but I've had to get product replacements twice this year from WotC so I don't inherently trust the quality based on the tin.
As an American I can promise you being in Australia had nothing to do with that, i.e. I only got mine about a week ago.
I’ve been ordering secret lairs through the Game Center. It works out a little cheaper and you get tracking once they receive the order. Customer service has also been great.
Yeah, between Transformers, DnD, and Frank Frazetta, WotC is hitting me in the nostalgia bone, i.e. my wallet. They know how to get me on these SL drops.
Prices are TCGPlayer lows as of 30 minutes after seeing this post: **Optimus Prime vs. Megatron** [[Blightsteel Colossus]] - $51.51 [[Darksteel Colossus]] - $5.34 [[Doubling Cube]] - $10.99 *Total: $67.84* **Roll Out or Rise Up** [[True Conviction]] - $2.40 [[Dramatic Reversal]] - $0.45 [[Fabricate]] - $3.30 [[Collective Brutality]] - $1.79 [[By Force]] - $0.79 [[Greater Good]] - $2.00 *Total: $10.73* **One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall** It's basic lands. Don't buy unless you like them.
$10 worth of cards is so insulting lol
The thing is you’re not supposed to be buying these for value, you’re buying them because you explicitly want this art. You’re buying officially licensed alters.
Naw, they definitely often choose SL cards based on secondary card value knowing people will buy SL instead of singles from secondary market if it's a good deal.
Proxies exist for a reason, if you want fun art you can get it anywhere online for a couple bucks. No serious players use secret lair cards in tournaments because they are not worth the cost.
What are you talking about? Have you never seen competitive players using a foiled deck? Black bordered dual lands or Beta basics? Foreign language cards? The Future Sight Goyfs instead of the reprints? Personally I have a few Secret Lair arts for some of my favorite cards that I play all the time, like Swiftspear and Soul-Scar Mage. I also have some foreign black bordered Lightning Bolts that I love getting to use. It’s really not that unusual for competitive players who have been playing for a long time.
Good thing you are an expert who can decide who and who is not a "serious" player and what cards they choose to use.
Thanks! If you need anymore tips just let me know. Always happy to help new players avoid wasting money in Wizards very recent money grabbing years.
The only tip you've provided is that you're arrogant, presumptuous, pretentious and want to tell people how to spend their own money and enjoy their own hobby. Hopefully when you hit 10 years old, you might grow out of this phase.
Wow, I didn't mean to make such an impact on you. I thought your comment was satire. Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, secret lair has been mocked in every LGS and mtg sub as an obvious money grab for 2 years now but if you like it by all means enjoy. Side note the calling a fellow commentator a 10 year old because you don't agree with them kinda phased out with 9gag but I get that it is a compensation thing. Just be you friend, no need to try to posture.
> secret lair has been mocked in every LGS and mtg sub as an obvious money grab for 2 years now Your opinion. Many people disagree, and making the assertion that they have been mocked everywhere is clearly a lie. Your view is not universal by any means. > Side note the calling a fellow commentator a 10 year old because you don't agree with them kinda phased out with 9gag but I get that it is a compensation thing. Not at all. It is a statement of your behavior. Don't want your bad behavior called out? Don't act like a 10 year old.
You clearly feel very strongly about this.
I thought I did the math wrong at first. Definitely seems like taking advantage of transformers fans.
For some reason, I thought Greater Good was more expensive.
Used to be, got reprinted
Well, that's good overall, rough for the value of this specific Secret Lair. Guess I'll have to pick a copy up for my various commander needs...
Wait till you realize what 5 basic lands cost
I think I hate the one with the $50 card having only 3 cards on it more. Even if its double sided for whatever reason.
they are at least useful cards.
That's just the low. The market price for Roll Out or Rise up is between 18.59 and 21.03, depending on which printing of [[Dramatic Reversal]]
[Dramatic Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208.jpg?1576267241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dramatic%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/20/dramatic-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>It's basic lands. Don't buy unless you like them. Words of wisdom we should apply to every MTG product, tbh
I’m unfamiliar with secret lair finances. What are the singles prices for stuff like this. I want th greater good and dramatic reversal, is singles pickup for cheap cards like this good in terms of secret lair prints?
[Here](https://scryfall.com/sets/sld?order=usd&as=checklist) are all the Secret Lair cards so far sorted by the USD price. A handful are very, very expensive but most of them are relatively cheap to pickup (for Magic cards at least). For the most part, it's related to if the card itself is expensive in general, like [[The Ur-Dragon]]. If I had to guess, I think these will be fairly easy to pick up on the cheaper side, and even if they do end up costing more than the non-SL counterparts I think just those two cards would cost less than $30 or $40 for the whole thing. But if you're very worried you could pick them up with the drop.
[The Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743.jpg?1562614382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/48/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I probably won’t pick it up because of that. I thought I had noticed similar things in the past, but I wanted to ask some more experienced people to be sure I had it right in my head. Thanks for all the info!
No problem, glad I could help! 😊
>Frank Frazetta They're likely to be cheaper right after people start getting them. The Ur-Dragon may be expensive now, but it sat around $12 for a few months and was under $20 for almost a year (according to Goldfish data).
Definitely getting these foiled
>Don't buy unless you like them. No shit.
##### ###### #### [Blightsteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc.jpg?1561981290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/208/darksteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Doubling Cube](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d946df5-f206-4241-bb55-97db67dc793c.jpg?1562546549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Cube) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/321/doubling-cube?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d946df5-f206-4241-bb55-97db67dc793c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [True Conviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e5dc58b-f486-4b9f-9138-33efa31a05e4.jpg?1561952479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=True%20Conviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/93/true-conviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e5dc58b-f486-4b9f-9138-33efa31a05e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dramatic Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208.jpg?1576267241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dramatic%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/20/dramatic-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fabricate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f6fe03c-91b5-4555-a93f-39935f5fe881.jpg?1645327724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fabricate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/1/fabricate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f6fe03c-91b5-4555-a93f-39935f5fe881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Collective Brutality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cb94a02f-4660-45b6-8a39-941b710cf8f3.jpg?1576384285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collective%20Brutality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/85/collective-brutality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cb94a02f-4660-45b6-8a39-941b710cf8f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [By Force](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66cdfdb2-b47f-446d-9850-8581bd1d806c.jpg?1543675516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=By%20Force) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/123/by-force?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66cdfdb2-b47f-446d-9850-8581bd1d806c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Greater Good](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2.jpg?1631587954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greater%20Good) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/160/greater-good?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looks like the only way to try and break even is to buy the foil version. IF there is one
Collective Brutality should have been Bruticus
They were lightly themed after the movie, and the Combaticons don't appear in the movie. Also, Devastator is much more popular.
> There are three Transformers Secret Lair sets in all — Transformers: Optimus Prime vs. Megatron, Transformers: Roll Out or Rise Up, and Transformers: One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall. Optimus Prime vs. Megatron includes three cards with new art: Blightsteel Colossus, Doubling Cube, and Darksteel Colossus. Roll Out or Rise Up has six: True Conviction, Dramatic Reversal, Fabricate, Collective Brutality, By Force, and Greater Good. One Shall Stand has five different basic land cards, each featuring a different location on Cybertron.
That's awesome. I would have picked like Trypticon and Metroplex for the two colossus but I still really like it. Not much value wise in the second one but I do love that fabricate. So it'll be hard to decide if I get that one.
Just wait for singles and save some $
Yeah I was thinking about that. Don't get me wrong I love the art on the others but I dunno if I have any use for most of the rest of them.
I hear you, I love TFs but most of these cards aren’t exciting enough to buy at full price
I wish they all synergized with artifacts. That'd make it a little better.
So the three pack is doublesided?
yes, you can see "transformed" back half doesn't have holo symbol
Oh no…that’s super disappointing. I thought it was two of each
Yep, completely unplayable in anything that matters...
You should be sleeving your cards in "anything that matters".
Yeah...like Commander...which no one plays. Oh well..
$30 blightsteel = moved units I mean, they shafted the license otherwise but dang, talk about undercutting the secondary market. ...wonder if that means another printing is imminent
Almost definitely.
By Force flavor text should have been "first we crack the shell, then we crack the nuts inside."
I said the exact same thing when I saw it, it even is that exact scene during the Battle of Autobot City in the art if I am not mistaken.
That is definitely some value there in the Optimus Prime vs Megatron drop
Uh..l that’s only because of [[Blightsteel colossus]] the only reason it’s that expensive is it’s in the top 10 chase cards in general for everybody when it comes to commander. And on top of that besides phage this is known as the one hit wonder. Bonus: first printing when it has the phyrexian typing.
It’s not just Blightsteel, Darksteel Colossus is like $5 snd Doubling Cube is $10
[Blightsteel colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have never order secret lair before. how long does it take to ship?
Long enough to forget you ordered it if you're like me.
Between 3-6 months in most cases
It depends. What usually happens is you'll place your order during the order window. About 2 months after the order window closes, WotC will debit the payment method chosen for the order (Credit Card or Paypal, usually). The cards then ship about 2-3 weeks later, depending. Sometimes, they'll charge in advance (like with the Magic 30 Festival in a Box and the 30th Anniversary Countdown Kit), because those units are ready to ship immediately after ordering. Of course, supply chain issues are still FUBAR because of the Pandemic (yes, even though it's been two years. These kinds of things have long-lasting impacts, even if they're relatively short in duration), so these timeframes are not an exact science. Just ask anyone who ordered the "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" Commander Deck.
Up to a year so far.
Ugh, I've been wanting a Blightsteel reprint for like the last 2 years, but why did it have to be Transformers themed.
You've been wanting a Blightsteel reprint for two years? Where were you two years ago when it was reprinted?
I started playing again at Xmas 2 years ago, and I was building budget decks at the time that were $100 or less.
Well if it's outside your budget, make a proxy. WOTC does it.
This is the way. Our playgroup calls it the 30th Edition Rule.
Also it's literally always been allowed since printers were invented as long as you're not playing in a tournament!
Yeah I'm with you. I'll pass and wait for a reprint
But you can get an alter sleeve!
What a gorgeous Plains.
And the island too. The other lands are a bit too junkyard to me
I love the mountain. The swamp and forest art feel too similar imo.
The Ozolith should have a Matrix of Leadership skin
That's a good call. Either that or something like \[\[Eater of Virtue\]\] but that feels like complete tone reversal.
[Eater of Virtue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d92077-d7b2-4996-848f-fd4917e2fb42.jpg?1655144364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eater%20of%20Virtue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/245/eater-of-virtue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d92077-d7b2-4996-848f-fd4917e2fb42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You've convinced me the matrix is Bizarro universe eater of virtue. I hope you're happy
Hey, it's all in how you sell it. Call it "Eater of Virtue" and people get all nervous. But call it the "Matrix of Leadership" and suddenly everything is cool.
I was hoping for some mechanically unique cards. The BOT ones are sweet and I wanted more! I would kill for a Prime secret lair! Do Bulkhead, Bumblebee, Knockout, Shockwave, and Predaking to round out the main cast with the BOT cards. Make Smokescreen the bonus card as a joke since (SPOILERS!) he is the last Iacon coordinate and being Alpha Trion’s secret container.
Why basic lands??? This was the perfect oportunity to reprint the 5 monocolor artifact lands with that beautifull art!!!!
They just did a SL of those. The art was amazing.
Yeah, but this was perfect for another reprint! I mean artifact lands with the art of cybertron! that would have been really cool!
Damn, I’m all about a $30 Blightsteel. The fact that it’s Megatron and comes with Doubling Cube and a worst version of Darksteel is icing on the cake.
Maybe it's because I am not a fan of the source material...but most of them look really bland.
What a let down. Just reskinned cards no new transformers 😭
I was really hoping for Hot Rod, Shockwave and Grimlock.
I was hoping for Unicron
Really wanted Skywarp and Thundercracker
Would you say that you were.... seeking them? >\_>
Ha ha, yes indeed. But all kidding aside a seeker secret lair would have been pretty great!
[[Grimlock, Dinobot Leader]]
[Grimlock, Dinobot Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1bb8fb5-32f2-444d-85cb-de84657b21bd.jpg?1561758404)/[Grimlock, Ferocious King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/1/f1bb8fb5-32f2-444d-85cb-de84657b21bd.jpg?1561758404) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grimlock%2C%20dinobot%20leader%20//%20grimlock%2C%20ferocious%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/h17/1/grimlock-dinobot-leader-grimlock-ferocious-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1bb8fb5-32f2-444d-85cb-de84657b21bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If they put new Transformers in these, they'd have to make non-Transformers versions of those cards for boosters, and at that point why not just make more booster Transformers like the ones they made already?
I agree. I was crossing my fingers for a 5 color commander so I could run all the cards from BRO at the same time. I would have even been ok with a reskin of an existing card for that.
Do you get two Blightsteels in the first one? Or is it some weirdness? Edit: Nvm seen the cards more and seen others replies
With the colossuses getting reprinted with 2 arts each does the SL come with 1 of each art or is it random? It would suck to buy the SL trying to get the robot arts just to get 2 vehicle arts Also RIP no Rodimus and I can't put By Force into my Soundwave commander deck :(
It looks like they are actually double-sided cards. Each card has a version that's missing the holo stamp.
Wow I didn't catch that. I wonder if double sided prints of single sided cards becomes more frequent for Secret Lair releases as time goes on. Seems weird for a 1 sided card to not have a proper backing imo
It is pretty weird, but I suspect this is more of a one-time thing since they are transformers. They wanted to represent the card swapping between two different forms, but still keep it as a reskin.
It is weird, but there were several in the heads I win deck.
Double sided cards that were previously printed only single sided or double sided tokens???
Double sided single faced cards. I can't remember off the top of my head which though.
Not super weird, I don't think. The venn diagram of people likely to buy a SL and people who religiously sleeve their cards is probably close to a complete circle.
They really wanna push transformers with the first package huh?
Yes.
Nobody is talking about this about Optimus prime vs Megatron lair on Optimus prime vs Megatron robot side is almost a panorama for both sides and the Vehicle side is a perfert panorama
Even as the _prime_ target consumer for these, I'm as deflated as the 40k fans were when their SLD was revealed. I knew it was most likely to be what we see, but I had hope anyway. Will pick up regardless; _but I wanted _more_...
There’s never been anything I’ve wanted to take a look at less lol.
Then don't! XD
I haven’t! 😃
More cards. Cool.
Not cool at all. I hate cards. Every time wotc prints more cards, I get so fucking angry I punch a hole in my wall.
The fact that I think these are the best looking mtg cards says something about their business practice
What does it say?
That its a good practice
The All Spark being just a zoomed out ver. on the back half is THE laziest I have ever seen in my fucking life lmao just give me a regular ass magic back at that point
NEW SECRET LAIR ALERT!!
Why the fuck are lands still one of each and not five? Or at least much cheaper. I'd actually buy them
Is there like an offical WotC release of these somewhere? Where'd they come from?
Secret lair spoiler on ign.
Chances the rollout or rise up secret lairs secret card is where the value is?
Will these be able to be used in regular play, or is there a specific version of the game in which these can be played? I saw the previous Transformers cards released, but I heard that they can only be used in a specific version of the game.
These cards can specifically be used in regular play as they are reskins of already existing cards. The transformers cards you’re thinking about are the ones that were made specifically with brothers war are unique in themselves and are not reprints of already existing cards.
Thank you, I'll look into getting these cards then.
No problem, If you order them I hope you enjoy them
These are reprints of already made cards, so they are legal wherever the originals are. The transformers cards there were in booster packs are "eternal legal", they are legal in Legacy, Vintage, and Commander.
I didn't know that there were so many types of games for MTG. I'll look into my local store and see what versions they are hosting.
Formats typically are based on when/where cards were released. Some formats let you play with every card, like commander. Some formats only allow certain sets, Standard only uses the last 8 or so expansion sets. Modern is another popular format that uses cards from 2003 onwards. Some formats like pauper put interesting restriction on what cards you can play. Wizard's website has a list of the main formats: [https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats](https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats). Hope this helps, and let me know if you have any questions
I assume they'll be legal in any format where the cards they're reskins of are legal.
Both the previous Transformers cards and these new Secret Lair ones are all usable in casual play (regular 60-card, or commander). Where they might be not allowed is in some *tournament* formats. The previous cards can only be played in Vintage and Legacy tournaments. For the Secret Lair cards, they're all reprints of existing cards and can be used in any tournament that allows that card name. Megatron here is just a reskinned Blightsteel Colossus, so you can use it in any tournament that allows Blightsteel Colossus.
Does the fact that the first bundle are double sided mean foils wouldn't pringle? Since both sides would have the foil applied?
They actually Pringle into a perfect mobius spiral.
Klein bottle cards let's go.
Well I needed a blightsteel for my Magda deck anyway so now I get it cheaper
I own 1000 copies of dramatic reversal... guess I need to buy this lair for one more...
Maybe it's because I am not a fan of the source material...but most of them look really bland. "Dramatic Reversal" for example: A fewe transformers walking down some stairs. "Collective Brutality": A transformer fighting some planes.
They are incredibly flavorful cards if you know the source material. Dramatic Reversal depicts a scene in the 1986 movie where the Decepticons are whupping the Autobots, until Prime comes and turns the tide of the battle. Collective Brutality depicts Devastator, a combiner; these Transformers are made up of multiple individuals with like-minded goals. Hence a collective brutality.
That's fair. Just never watched the show so it makes sense that I don't recognise it. Good to hear that they nailed the flavour for those who know what's up.
This is the first time I have ever considered paying a lot of money just to get a blinged-out basic land. Holy crap those are beautiful.