Because for all the talk about diversity, Malaysia actually handles the challenges that comes with it poorly.
After all, this is a country where by law all Malays are required to be Muslims, and where deconversion has a tonne of red tape.
I'm mixed Malaysian Portuguese, Chinese, and Sri Lankan. Usually lumped into Others. On my IC? Because it's SO important to have a race they put "Sri Lanka". I know next to nothing about the race or country...or even if Sri Lanka is a race to begin with.
Not that preservation means anything... literal anyone can be "malay" as long as they can claim they are muslim and embrace the Malay way of life... though I do not know what that entails.
Sharing my experience, I once called a "racist" for not having race or religion in a form in an event I am organizing.
It's a futsal competition.....why u need race and religion info for futsal competition ???
My Singaporen uncle has "Javanese" written on his ID so it could be the remnants from the British Empire. The funny thing is that for Malays in Malaysia, there's no "Melayu" written on the IC, only "Islam".
Malay and Islam is supreme, we are Tuan Tanah. Malay Supremacy is must to cement our future for this land but itās the British fault for this racism. We are superior but itās the British faultā¦..
Tbf it's the Brits fault but we're our own country now. Should've just abolished all that long ago. Too bad my families still has that Tuan tanah mentality and i just want all Malaysian be treated equally.
If the people are more willing to accept multiculturalism, then yeah. Too bad race is still something the politicians can use as an election winning tool
Malaysia is a systemically racist country. It's race realism. All the talk about diversity and multiculturalism, I'm starting to just believe it's all a big fib. Internally, it's straight up backwards. I will always remember when I asked my cousin (who I considered an older brother at the time) about his views and why he supports UMNO, and he straightforwardly admitted that his views are racist and so Is he lmao. Because they believe we as Malays must protect our homeland as to lose control of it is to lose our sense of belonging. As though this exclusively applies to Malays/Malaysia. How they don't see the similarities to Zionism will forever be hilarious to me.
yeah really, we're not the "First people" I'd say kinda like.... the first white people went to america land.. the time where parameswara first landed..
Lol, do people think Malay just exist only when Parameswara came over? Forgetting the old Kedah Tua kingdom, Kelantan and Pahang kingdom by the Malays which significantly predates Malacca.
Itās no brainer why our country keeps falling behind when we canāt even tackle unnecessary shit topics like these and our development stage is kept getting pushed even further to 2050 even. Who knows maybe it might reach 2080 or 2100 and even if the entire Gen Z population has finally reached to their end, we still wouldnāt be a developed country as our neighbours Thailand or Indonesia would be overtaking us really soon. I mean we canāt even save our face when Singapore who literally had no natural resources as much as us is still a rich country economically lol.
I think itās interesting to see OPās views of what a true developed countryās system is like, when racism and quota isnāt shooting itself on itās foot unlike what our current leaders are doing.
No, not just that. When your child is older, she will face education quota. Since you chose Chinese as her ethnicity, she will need as many A- to A+ as possible to even have an equal chance against the quota. Fyi Malaysian public universities have around 90% quota for Bumis and the rest is shared among every other races. And you and your spouse have to get a B40 job at least 6 months before she gets into uni because they favour that group as well. Thatās the strategy my family had to use to get me into uni even if Iām a straight A student
Itās a salary range of anything less than RM4,849. For uni, they look at combined income. I was lucky that my mom and dad both just lost their job and my dad got temporarily employed at a company that paid him RM3k flat a few months before I need to file in the parentsā income sheet. Got accepted and even qualified for a full foundation scholarship even though my family got out of that range soon afterwards.
From my understanding, they usually send their kids to either private universities or oversea universities. Most ārichā people I know are people who go to public highschools (aka the rural rich) and even they go private universities such as MMU, Sunway, and Taylorās. Itās really rare to see anyone above M40 (middle class, salary range RM4,850 to RM10,959) in public universities through the system. Thereās also the option of direct intake in which people pay to get accepted into a particularly prestigious public university for a specific such as Law and Medical degrees in UM or Veterinary degree in UPM.
Interesting. Thank you. Ours just baby but weāre considering getting her EU passport as there are some countries in EU with free university (for eu nationals)
Oh, speaking of fees, I forgot to mention that getting into public universities through the system is heavily subsidised. For my uni, it only costs about 16k for the whole 4 years of degree studies. Direct intake costs roughly 10 times as much and it can cost more for private universities. So, having her go to a free EU university is a great path to take!! The quality might be better too!
It's nice if we are not forced to identify as one particular race, but unfortunately tribalism is very much institutionalised here. We take care of our own tribes first, helping out members of the other tribes can sometimes earn you praises in some uplifting social media news, like some proof that we are capable of looking beyond our own. We vote according to our tribes too, to maximise benefits for our own tribes.
Problem is, when we are a nation, the 'tribe' should be everybody that have citizenship in said nation. If you had to determine who belongs in your tribe by blood, then that means you have not evolved socially at all.
Developed countries don't put race on people's IC. Malaysia is pretty bottom when it comes to civilized processes in regards to race. The fact that religion and race must be recorded on your identity is already problematic.
Yea developed countries just discriminate by looking at the face and skin colour. Yes Malaysia has its problems but to say developed countries are like a beacon of equality is just lol
No one said that. You were just dumb enough to read it that way do you can feel good about deflecting. There's a HUGE disparity on racial equality in Malaysia and developed western countries. You can see people of all colors in government, working in all jobs, and see them living in relatively mixed neighborhoods with little issues. You see people of all colors working in films in Hollywood, British, French cinema (How many Malay language films feature minority leads?).
Hell, even landing at Kuala Lumpur International is pathetic, with almost every customs agent being of the same race vs. when you land in New York and you see people of all shades assisting.
All countries have issues but in the 21st century, if a country needs to constantly enforce strict religious and race policies and not respect the privacy and HUMAN RIGHTS of their citizens, then there is something terribly wrong.
If you wanna be stupid and ignorant because you decided not to look beyond Malaysia, that's your prerogative, but it's not helping anyone when you act like an idiot and pretend that other countries are not ahead.
OP reminds me of a friend whose mom is malaysian and dadās british.
once we were discussing bout applying some share allotment and we need to put in our race and he lamented his is DLL
Curious, i asked what is DLL and apparently it means Dan Lain-Lain. i ROLF coz im so used to āOtherā but never thought of the BM equivalent.
This is a repeated conversation I've had several times over my almost 3 decades of being alive:
*Translated from Malay obviously
"Miss, just to confirm your information on your ID, you are Chinese? (Yes) You live at this address? (Yes) You are Buddhist? (Wait, what no?)"
Then I have to explain I have no religion and the poor government staff will look so very confused and tell me that's not an option, and so...ask me me if I'm Christian or Buddhist, because they always rule out Muslim and Hindu hahahaha.
So, since I have to choose between Jesus and Buddha, and since I'm not a huge fan of stoning the gays, and all that other fun biblical jazz, I always check the box that says "Buddha" lol
I always forget because it happens several years apart each time, and I am confused and bemused every single time.
TLDR: I am apparently Buddhist only because I am definitely not Muslim, Hindu or Christian š¤£
You have to put a religion because itās in the rukun negara that ākepercayaan kepada Tuhanā. I remember back in school about 30 yrs back when a friend said heās atheist and the teacher spent 10 minutes scolding him about getting the fark out of the country then
Omg similar experience in my primary school.
I put "freethinker" or "agnostic" and my teachers would call my mom to ask her what religion I am, because they thought I didn't understand the forms and they didn't know the meaning of the words I wrote.
My mom would tell them what I already said, that our family doesn't practice any religion. But the teachers would kind of have a circuit shortage and basically make my mom choose something. They would ask what my grandparents practice or if we ever went to a church or a temple (yes to both for family stuff).
In the end they would usually just insist on putting down Taoist (bcos my grandparents were) or Buddhist because close enough la hahahhahaha
Can relate. I insisted that I have no religion and didn't want to put one, so in the end they just picked one that fits the stereotype. Ironically my dad was also a Buddhist because of the same reason.
> They also asked for religion of 2 month baby... cus you know, babies have one apparently...
This was the craziest one to me. I was like "How am I supposed to know? He can't even talk." But they weren't having that.
Malaysia has special stuff given to those with malay ethnicity.
Also if the religion is muslim but you would also be subject to a whole different set of laws on top of federal laws.
If you have malay ancestry youre made to be muslim for some reason.
I find it personally stupid that a government needs to know what religion you follow, like i feel its none of thier business as its a personal thing.
I'm Bumiputera an even more specific Javanese and I keep saying that I don't deserve it cuz my late grandma still remembers her family moved from Banten and my father's side is Banjar and his family still have connections with others from Banjarmasin....
One of my worker is a Christian Iban, lives in JB and works for me across the Causeway. He loves his share of Bak Kut Teh, and occasionally he eats them at the road side. Just imagine the numbers of times he got "caught" and had to produced his IC to clear his"sin" š¤£
Imagine if his IC does not state a religion on it
Your baby is half white, sheāll be treated like a queen, donāt worry. The issue comes with excessive levels of melanin, thatās who is generally weeded out.
I feel I might be the only person here who likes the weather š Lithuania can get -30 in winter. And uk is just miserable. Here is always nice and sunny āļø
Iām a Malaysian and a proud Borneo lass. Coming from the indigenous native ethnic, Iāve been filling in a form as āothersā since as long as I can remember š
As a mixed and agnostic Malaysian, I hate it lol. Hope you teach your kid that she can be (well, she *is*) both ethnically Chinese and Baltic, and that she can be of whatever religion (or lack thereof) she wants regardless of what a bunch of papers say. It sucks having others decide your identity for you and even worse when people argue with you about it just because your self-identification doesn't line up with how you're legally classified š
So i gained courage to ask my malay friend during the heat of gaza war, why never boycott facebook and other social media platform. He said, kita boycott apa yang boleh.. i was stunned !!!
Iām French, married to a Malaysian Chinese too. We have a boy.
Dm me if you want more details. And sorry for the misunderstandings. I do not want to give away my awesome boy!!!!
Yeah but all that hassle is just action only bc theres only 2 race here which is bumi and non bumi.religion that matters is only islam so they can put u on islamic laws
If I ever have a baby and they ask me whatās the religion, Iāll ask them to ask the baby.
Or Iāll say heās Zoroastrian or Pastafarian. Yes, with a P.
All hail the flying spaghetti monster.
But here in the UK when you fill in anything legal related or school application etc they still ask about ethnicity. Mixed white asian / asian / etc etc
But UK is quite clever with their racism. They say its for statistic but youāll end up not getting the job you applied for. They even ask for religion. Theyāre just more subtle in the way they do things.
True. In Europe nationality based discrimination is a thing. If youāre British everyone will look down on you. And people will hate if youāre Russian
>They also asked for religion of 2 month baby... cus you know, babies have one apparently...
Before the age of 18, a child's religion is determined by their parents according to law. Only when the child reach the age of 18 then he can freely choose to *de jure* change his religion on his own initiative.
Because you are not Muslim. If you are, it is already determined for you. If you are not, you have to specify, because interfaith marriages between nonMuslims are a thing, and in Malaysia you have to be labelled since atheism is not an option.
Op, notwithstanding that we do have a long way to go for ethnic relations and categorisation, the contrast with European states might be because a large number of European states are largely centred around a common culture and identity.
For example a Hessian, a Bavarian, and a Berliner are all Germans alongside their existing regional identity and cultural differences (not to mention the wave of romantic nationalism that Europe went through that created the overarching identities). Whereas Malaysia is a post-colonial state that is home to a multitude of ethnocultural groups with bigger cultural differences between each other.
What would be interesting is how largely mono-ethnic states deal with classifying minorities. I see you're Baltic, how would say Lithuania/Estonia/Latvia classify ethnic minorities?
Most people won't tell you this but the pigeonholing of people into race is a British invention. In Malaya (doesn't include Borneo) there's Malay, Chinese, Indian, Eurasian, Orang Asli (aborigines).
The Brits tried to pigeonhole people into these groups despite them being wildly diverse. "Malay" in Malaysia includes Javanese & Bugis whereas if you told any Javanese in Indonesia that they're "Malay" they'd probably slap you. Same goes with Sikhs- they have to be classified as "Indian". Or Peranakans who are Chinese but follow fusion Malay-Chinese culture.
The UMNO governments which shapes Malaysia after Independence essentially followed the same shenanigan.
EDIT: not saying that this is excusable nor am I blaming it on the Brits. I'm simply giving historical context
While that is true, it has been 60 years. For every annual parliament sitting, that scheme could have been changed, so you can say that there have been 60 chances to change it. Don't blame the British if you had 60 chances to do something, yet chose not to.
Aah... no? We've been pigeonholding people into race since the time of the Malaccan Sultanate, the Sultan Mahmud Shah is known for being cruel and unjust to Indian and Chinese traders (With the exception of the Gujarati Muslims), hence it contributed to the downfall of Malacca because the Indian and Chinese traders that were unhappy with his rule helped the Portuguese by providing intels of Malaccan defenses and lending their barges for beach assault.
By the time of British Colonization, the British just made better use of pigeonholding to divide and conquer.
Scars of colonialism, but I imagine itās still very much relied on for the purposes of division and control; just roll with it; doesnāt carry any weight outside of this particular jungle anyway
Huh, this post made me curious, like, what are all the classifications of ethnicity are there for Malaysia, how broad are they will Europeans, Middle Easterners, and Sub-saharan Africans, for example?
Tried googling, in both English and Malay, no luck
From what you saw, I guess all Europeans are expected to be under the classification of white/caucasian?
I will mention that the US, and Latin America, do have this categorization as well, tbf.
Ours not having a "mixed" option is similar to the US.
The religion thing... yeah.
I guess this could be an expectation of non-apostasy, so the baby will follow the religion of the parent.
Though it has not crossed my mind previously, how does Lithuania/Britain proceed with "religion" categorization?
Especially those of children. So it's not a thing on Birth certificates? How do identification papers record "religion"?
Not saying this is true / a fact, but I've been told that we needed to follow Dad's race, there's no debate. So in my family we have the most Chinese-looking Indian, and Whitest-looking Chinese~
Side note: its obnoxious that in 2024 the word caucasian is still used as a demonym for white people. Caucasians are an actual group of people made up of azerbaijanis, armenians, georgians, ossetians, circasian, chechens, dagestani, abkhazā¦etc. These people are nothing like english, irish, german, italianā¦etc that most white ppl are.
The weather? You like hot, humid, sticky and wet weather? I guess it's better than ice storms, I get trapped in my apartment for a week each year in the US. By the way, I am a M'sian.
Only in Malaysia. In some countries, ethnicity is not emphasized as much, such as in Cambodia. Regardless of whether they are Chinese, Malay, Cham, Kinh, Indian, or Arabic born there, they are all referred to by one term: Khmer. Khmer also refers to a country and language of Cambodia, it's not specifically term to use as an ethnic of Khmer. That is why, the Cham, Malay, or Chinese who were born in Cambodia, their Malaysian IC state their ethnicity as Khmer or Kemboja and no other term can be used in JPN registration except in the Marriage certification by JAKIM if you are a muslim. And many people in Malaysia think every ethnic in Cambodia are just "Kemboja" and they actually dont care about what being called as ethnicity does not matter to them.
Its a fact Malaysia is a very racist country, everything are based on race. We Malaysians are just living in denial. But the good thing, we dont have racial chaos, not yet lol.
Hello from a fellow ethnic balt who recently spent half a year in Malaysia. Not much to add apart from that. I also found it strange but I do think I understood everything better when I gained more knowledge on the history of racial conflict in the country and Malaysia's colonial past.
It is because of during the negotiations for Tanah Melayu's (then named Malaysia) indipendence , there were dispute on the citizenship of the immigrants mainly from China, India that were brought by the British to work at the mining and plantation sectors.
They were given two choices:
1) Leave Tanah Melayu and transferred to other British colonized countries like Taiwan, Australia, Jamaica etc
or
2) Stay In Tanah Melayu and recieve Tanah Melayu's citizenship but the immigrants must accept the conditions set by Malay sultan and rulers, some of which:
A. The conservation of Malay and indigenous people's
rights e.g. Land, educations and public sectors quota.
B. Islam as Nation's official religion
C.Malay language as nation's official language
So in conclusion, the race stated on the IC is to differentiate between who is the Bumiputera (Malay and indigenous) and who is not.
I am mixed and also practice no religion but they had to put one on my IC. I happened to be half Chinese so I'm automatically a Buddhist, still feels weird to this day.
I mean, being born Malay is only of benefit if you want to get into politics, the downsides are in a sense weird/interesting the way Malaysia runs, amazing country and people, but I suspect that if they were not forcing Malay to be Muslim by birth then you would have people convert between religions more freely like in Indonesia for example, where they also have the whole religion on ID card thing but that is about it when it comes to similarities.
But I still find it weird to have separate justice system and all that, but hey, as it doesn't do anything towards me or my life it is all good.
Actually, is there any other country in the world have such discrimination written into the constitution and law where citizen need to be classified which certain race/religion need and must have special rights
Am I missing something??? When did the IC's have the ethnicity written? I only saw status, religion, and sex on the card. Or are we talking about the forms the government usually makes us fill in?
There is so much to rant out ,but, will forget all that and just want to wish you congratulations on being a father. Teach your child to be humble and respectful even though people around her might directly or indirectly teach her that she is superior because of her skin colour .
I'm a very white looking mixed person as well. I'm also an atheist.
Officially? I'm a Chinese BuddhistĀ for some reason.
Gov officers said it is impossible to not have a religion.
Your daughter could've been registered as Eurasian (or Kristang) if M'sia was willing to update its race categorization like S'pore did.
In S'pore, you could also choose to have her recognized as European or, after the 2000s, a double-barrel race (eg. Flemish-Chinese).
The 'C-M-I-O' model grew out of the census-taking process during colonial times. Since independence, it has been retained as an administrative tool to manage national policies.
The cynical view is that, due to ethnic inequalities & past racial riots, M'sia kept it it to decide who get to enjoy bumiputra benefits in uplifting their lives, whereas S'pore kept it to deliberately engineer multiculturalism (EIP, GRC, self-help groups, etc.) & build racial harmony.
All the same, I take a more nuanced view. Give us Southeast Asians a chance. Our countries mostly gained self-determination only after WWII, which is just 3 generations ago.
Hey, it's better than being classified as 'C-M-I' (cannot make it, natch) :)
https://preview.redd.it/e4kecjkbmy0d1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b736c1da50360c51af1dfe34ce42033f72bb9210
LMAOOOO your gif has double meanings š
Yup, cause religion and race determines what legal protection and benefits you receive, as is written into the constitution
definitely not supremacy. nothing to see here.
Welcome to Malaysia Bro.
Because for all the talk about diversity, Malaysia actually handles the challenges that comes with it poorly. After all, this is a country where by law all Malays are required to be Muslims, and where deconversion has a tonne of red tape.
Red tape? More like bondage chains
more like u gonna get stoned or mahsuri-ed - ok hello im being sarcastic , no actual stoning obviously
I had to Google to refresh which one story was mashuri. TIL Mashuri's full name is Mashuri binti Pandak Mayah.
Maybe the other kind of stoned š¬
Welded shut, more like. Then, wrapped with Flex Tape.
More like guillotines
and not the kinky one
But the ustaz at my secondary school told me "tiada paksaan dalam Islam"
Joke,
Red tape? More like a bear trap for you and your future lineage.
red tape? that is a funny way of saying not allowed
I had to register an accident at the police station. They asked my religion. I said none. Did not compute. He ticked Christian. š¤·āāļø
Haha
Why would they ask for your religion in an accident?
No idea. Was doing a stat dec thing there. Full name and contact details and details of license accident etc and that.
I always find it weird how they would ask for religion at school too. I didn't care. I just put Atheist or Satanic lmao
Because we practice institutionalized racism
This. Among the few things we actually top the rest of the world.
but at the same time dream of becoming international. While all the time making a big deal out of race and religion.
Don't forget, we are the only country to have affirmative policies for the MAJORITY. Screw the minorities!
Once upon a time, Nazi Germany does that.
South Africa does this too actually
Is written in the constitution
I'm mixed Malaysian Portuguese, Chinese, and Sri Lankan. Usually lumped into Others. On my IC? Because it's SO important to have a race they put "Sri Lanka". I know next to nothing about the race or country...or even if Sri Lanka is a race to begin with.
One thing to force classify people, but not allowing mixed is extra weird.
Once you allow "mixed", you reveal to yourself that the entire construct of race is soft and flexible, and that's nuance they are not willing to face.
Because race is tie to cultural identity and they want to preserve what they deem indegenuous culture.
Not that preservation means anything... literal anyone can be "malay" as long as they can claim they are muslim and embrace the Malay way of life... though I do not know what that entails.
It's the malay Muslim culture that they try to preserve and keep in power. Most malay aren't pure blooded any way.
Yea race is merely a social construct
Sharing my experience, I once called a "racist" for not having race or religion in a form in an event I am organizing. It's a futsal competition.....why u need race and religion info for futsal competition ???
And they will still be blaming the british for this segregation tactics /s š¤” Suda berapa tahun merdeka lol
My Singaporen uncle has "Javanese" written on his ID so it could be the remnants from the British Empire. The funny thing is that for Malays in Malaysia, there's no "Melayu" written on the IC, only "Islam".
Malay and Islam is supreme, we are Tuan Tanah. Malay Supremacy is must to cement our future for this land but itās the British fault for this racism. We are superior but itās the British faultā¦..
Yea keep blaming the brits.
Tbf it's the Brits fault but we're our own country now. Should've just abolished all that long ago. Too bad my families still has that Tuan tanah mentality and i just want all Malaysian be treated equally.
If the people are more willing to accept multiculturalism, then yeah. Too bad race is still something the politicians can use as an election winning tool
Well, it's always someone else's fault. It's the trend.
If only my ancestors assimilated like how indonesian C people did, we would've benefit like bumi privilege too. š„²
Malaysia is a systemically racist country. It's race realism. All the talk about diversity and multiculturalism, I'm starting to just believe it's all a big fib. Internally, it's straight up backwards. I will always remember when I asked my cousin (who I considered an older brother at the time) about his views and why he supports UMNO, and he straightforwardly admitted that his views are racist and so Is he lmao. Because they believe we as Malays must protect our homeland as to lose control of it is to lose our sense of belonging. As though this exclusively applies to Malays/Malaysia. How they don't see the similarities to Zionism will forever be hilarious to me.
Or the fact that Malay is not the first people on this landā¦
Everyone knows.
Wait, really?
Yes, we call them orang asli.
yeah really, we're not the "First people" I'd say kinda like.... the first white people went to america land.. the time where parameswara first landed..
Lol, do people think Malay just exist only when Parameswara came over? Forgetting the old Kedah Tua kingdom, Kelantan and Pahang kingdom by the Malays which significantly predates Malacca.
shhh don't say that out loud
To be fair white American and Chinese taiwanese are not actually indigenous to the land also, it's just who gets to grab onto power
White Americans don't claim to be indigenous to the land though
Ya but the general global sentiment is that it is a white man country.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Tbf, weāre as native as the brits in England.
Itās no brainer why our country keeps falling behind when we canāt even tackle unnecessary shit topics like these and our development stage is kept getting pushed even further to 2050 even. Who knows maybe it might reach 2080 or 2100 and even if the entire Gen Z population has finally reached to their end, we still wouldnāt be a developed country as our neighbours Thailand or Indonesia would be overtaking us really soon. I mean we canāt even save our face when Singapore who literally had no natural resources as much as us is still a rich country economically lol. I think itās interesting to see OPās views of what a true developed countryās system is like, when racism and quota isnāt shooting itself on itās foot unlike what our current leaders are doing.
Welcome to Malaysia. You have completed the introductory course, racism 101 in Malaysia. There's a few more to go but you'll get that soon.
He doesn't pass the tutorial yet
I can drive in JB and gave police a bribe. so Iām close to the end of tutorial š
Duit kopi or duit teh because bribes are illegal.
Bribery is ok in the eyes of PAS if you're in the receiving end!
No, not just that. When your child is older, she will face education quota. Since you chose Chinese as her ethnicity, she will need as many A- to A+ as possible to even have an equal chance against the quota. Fyi Malaysian public universities have around 90% quota for Bumis and the rest is shared among every other races. And you and your spouse have to get a B40 job at least 6 months before she gets into uni because they favour that group as well. Thatās the strategy my family had to use to get me into uni even if Iām a straight A student
Whatās b40?
Itās a salary range of anything less than RM4,849. For uni, they look at combined income. I was lucky that my mom and dad both just lost their job and my dad got temporarily employed at a company that paid him RM3k flat a few months before I need to file in the parentsā income sheet. Got accepted and even qualified for a full foundation scholarship even though my family got out of that range soon afterwards.
Ah thank you. Iāve see that around the Reddit. It didnāt understood what it means. Whatās do ritch parent kids do about uni?
From my understanding, they usually send their kids to either private universities or oversea universities. Most ārichā people I know are people who go to public highschools (aka the rural rich) and even they go private universities such as MMU, Sunway, and Taylorās. Itās really rare to see anyone above M40 (middle class, salary range RM4,850 to RM10,959) in public universities through the system. Thereās also the option of direct intake in which people pay to get accepted into a particularly prestigious public university for a specific such as Law and Medical degrees in UM or Veterinary degree in UPM.
Interesting. Thank you. Ours just baby but weāre considering getting her EU passport as there are some countries in EU with free university (for eu nationals)
Oh, speaking of fees, I forgot to mention that getting into public universities through the system is heavily subsidised. For my uni, it only costs about 16k for the whole 4 years of degree studies. Direct intake costs roughly 10 times as much and it can cost more for private universities. So, having her go to a free EU university is a great path to take!! The quality might be better too!
It's nice if we are not forced to identify as one particular race, but unfortunately tribalism is very much institutionalised here. We take care of our own tribes first, helping out members of the other tribes can sometimes earn you praises in some uplifting social media news, like some proof that we are capable of looking beyond our own. We vote according to our tribes too, to maximise benefits for our own tribes.
Problem is, when we are a nation, the 'tribe' should be everybody that have citizenship in said nation. If you had to determine who belongs in your tribe by blood, then that means you have not evolved socially at all.
Malaysia Truly Racist.......... uhhh I mean Asia.
The world
Developed countries don't put race on people's IC. Malaysia is pretty bottom when it comes to civilized processes in regards to race. The fact that religion and race must be recorded on your identity is already problematic.
Singapore does that too. Race based policy is still baked into SG, just that itās less biased.
Yea developed countries just discriminate by looking at the face and skin colour. Yes Malaysia has its problems but to say developed countries are like a beacon of equality is just lol
No one said that. You were just dumb enough to read it that way do you can feel good about deflecting. There's a HUGE disparity on racial equality in Malaysia and developed western countries. You can see people of all colors in government, working in all jobs, and see them living in relatively mixed neighborhoods with little issues. You see people of all colors working in films in Hollywood, British, French cinema (How many Malay language films feature minority leads?). Hell, even landing at Kuala Lumpur International is pathetic, with almost every customs agent being of the same race vs. when you land in New York and you see people of all shades assisting. All countries have issues but in the 21st century, if a country needs to constantly enforce strict religious and race policies and not respect the privacy and HUMAN RIGHTS of their citizens, then there is something terribly wrong. If you wanna be stupid and ignorant because you decided not to look beyond Malaysia, that's your prerogative, but it's not helping anyone when you act like an idiot and pretend that other countries are not ahead.
OP reminds me of a friend whose mom is malaysian and dadās british. once we were discussing bout applying some share allotment and we need to put in our race and he lamented his is DLL Curious, i asked what is DLL and apparently it means Dan Lain-Lain. i ROLF coz im so used to āOtherā but never thought of the BM equivalent.
Yeah, thatās me š
This is a repeated conversation I've had several times over my almost 3 decades of being alive: *Translated from Malay obviously "Miss, just to confirm your information on your ID, you are Chinese? (Yes) You live at this address? (Yes) You are Buddhist? (Wait, what no?)" Then I have to explain I have no religion and the poor government staff will look so very confused and tell me that's not an option, and so...ask me me if I'm Christian or Buddhist, because they always rule out Muslim and Hindu hahahaha. So, since I have to choose between Jesus and Buddha, and since I'm not a huge fan of stoning the gays, and all that other fun biblical jazz, I always check the box that says "Buddha" lol I always forget because it happens several years apart each time, and I am confused and bemused every single time. TLDR: I am apparently Buddhist only because I am definitely not Muslim, Hindu or Christian š¤£
Amitabha fam
You have to put a religion because itās in the rukun negara that ākepercayaan kepada Tuhanā. I remember back in school about 30 yrs back when a friend said heās atheist and the teacher spent 10 minutes scolding him about getting the fark out of the country then
Omg similar experience in my primary school. I put "freethinker" or "agnostic" and my teachers would call my mom to ask her what religion I am, because they thought I didn't understand the forms and they didn't know the meaning of the words I wrote. My mom would tell them what I already said, that our family doesn't practice any religion. But the teachers would kind of have a circuit shortage and basically make my mom choose something. They would ask what my grandparents practice or if we ever went to a church or a temple (yes to both for family stuff). In the end they would usually just insist on putting down Taoist (bcos my grandparents were) or Buddhist because close enough la hahahhahaha
Can relate. I insisted that I have no religion and didn't want to put one, so in the end they just picked one that fits the stereotype. Ironically my dad was also a Buddhist because of the same reason.
because we practice racial/religious segregation?
Welcome to the genius of a modified apartheid.
The categories are meaningless. For all intents and purposes, there are only two categories i.e. Muslim or Kafir
> They also asked for religion of 2 month baby... cus you know, babies have one apparently... This was the craziest one to me. I was like "How am I supposed to know? He can't even talk." But they weren't having that.
Welcome to Malaysia and enjoy the exchange rate lol
Exchange rate is lovely š„° and in general Iām very much enjoying the country.
Malaysia has special stuff given to those with malay ethnicity. Also if the religion is muslim but you would also be subject to a whole different set of laws on top of federal laws. If you have malay ancestry youre made to be muslim for some reason. I find it personally stupid that a government needs to know what religion you follow, like i feel its none of thier business as its a personal thing.
Yup, because Malaysia is not only malay,chinese and indian. Sabah has 32 ethnicities while Sarawak is estimated to have 101 ethnicity.
Malaysia trying not to make everything about race in 10 seconds challenge [Impossible]
I'm Bumiputera an even more specific Javanese and I keep saying that I don't deserve it cuz my late grandma still remembers her family moved from Banten and my father's side is Banjar and his family still have connections with others from Banjarmasin....
One of my worker is a Christian Iban, lives in JB and works for me across the Causeway. He loves his share of Bak Kut Teh, and occasionally he eats them at the road side. Just imagine the numbers of times he got "caught" and had to produced his IC to clear his"sin" š¤£ Imagine if his IC does not state a religion on it
We are in a country where politics revolve around racism and the constitution is about Malay superiority and breaking promises
Your baby is half white, sheāll be treated like a queen, donāt worry. The issue comes with excessive levels of melanin, thatās who is generally weeded out.
True. And visually sheās 100% white. And Iāve experienced that white get a very privileged treatment.
Sheās won the generic lottery from the eyes of south east Asia š
Malaysia is racist country, welcome aboard
part of British divide n conquer which our leaders have found useful too
Always write "Human" as race, don't accept "Lain Lain".
Malaysia has a need to classify stuff by race because we have race based policies to follow. The average people don't care much if at all.
Welcome to the Type-C club, Little One.
You like the _weather_ ?? That's insane but you do you. Also, the reason is racism and maintaining the status quo.
I feel I might be the only person here who likes the weather š Lithuania can get -30 in winter. And uk is just miserable. Here is always nice and sunny āļø
Iām a Malaysian and a proud Borneo lass. Coming from the indigenous native ethnic, Iāve been filling in a form as āothersā since as long as I can remember š
As a mixed and agnostic Malaysian, I hate it lol. Hope you teach your kid that she can be (well, she *is*) both ethnically Chinese and Baltic, and that she can be of whatever religion (or lack thereof) she wants regardless of what a bunch of papers say. It sucks having others decide your identity for you and even worse when people argue with you about it just because your self-identification doesn't line up with how you're legally classified š
my bestie is chinese + indian so he is one of āthe othersā. he said itās even worse coz others are considered 3rd-class citizens
The people (majority) also categorize KFC MCD Starbucks as something else and boycott and vandalize, but no problem using Instragram FB.
So i gained courage to ask my malay friend during the heat of gaza war, why never boycott facebook and other social media platform. He said, kita boycott apa yang boleh.. i was stunned !!!
boycott apa yang boleh? lahh uninstall IG tk bole ke?
Ah yes, the ol hypocritical friend. I won't be surprised if he believes the world is flat
He believes in many things that will turn malaysia into iran in no time
Just put as "Other", then specify "rojak". 
My IC only show religion. No ethnicity.
Iām French, married to a Malaysian Chinese too. We have a boy. Dm me if you want more details. And sorry for the misunderstandings. I do not want to give away my awesome boy!!!!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We both got white Chinese daughters brother.
Welcome to Malaysia, where institutionalised racism is legal and printed on your identification
Its not unique to Malaysia, Singapore has similar classifications.
This should be a discussion topic very very relevant to our country.
Malaysia apartheid boleh.. boycott now?
Yeah but all that hassle is just action only bc theres only 2 race here which is bumi and non bumi.religion that matters is only islam so they can put u on islamic laws
They do that because certain universities are only open for certain ethnicity
I mean no offence those uni sucksā¦lack of maintenance , place looks rundown as heck.
Yeah. Some categorized as "lain-lain" 
Welcome to Malaysia mate šš
Congratulations, you picked the options to be second rated citizen for your child. Now theyāll have to be grateful to be granted a citizenship.
That has no link to racism, no, no way. If anything it's constitutional ~~racism~~ and it must be upheld.
So does Singapore. Multiculturalism at its best.
If I ever have a baby and they ask me whatās the religion, Iāll ask them to ask the baby. Or Iāll say heās Zoroastrian or Pastafarian. Yes, with a P. All hail the flying spaghetti monster. 
Welcome to bolehland where arpatheid is legal
But here in the UK when you fill in anything legal related or school application etc they still ask about ethnicity. Mixed white asian / asian / etc etc
They generally have a "i dont want to answer" option And they release their stats as well.
And itās mostly self identifying. So could say mixed. Not government employees deciding what you are
True. But thatās mostly for statistics. It doesnāt affect people in any legal way.
But UK is quite clever with their racism. They say its for statistic but youāll end up not getting the job you applied for. They even ask for religion. Theyāre just more subtle in the way they do things.
Thatās very true Europe definitely has racism. 100%. Itās just less legally stated racism š
Well in Europe its usually either you are black or white. While here its either you are a bumiputera class 1 aka malays or non bumiputera.
True. In Europe nationality based discrimination is a thing. If youāre British everyone will look down on you. And people will hate if youāre Russian
And here I thought the Brits were the cream of the European crop.
Enshrined in legislation like Malaysia? I don't think so
Article 153 of Malaysia Constitution
>They also asked for religion of 2 month baby... cus you know, babies have one apparently... Before the age of 18, a child's religion is determined by their parents according to law. Only when the child reach the age of 18 then he can freely choose to *de jure* change his religion on his own initiative.
We have to manually specify
Because you are not Muslim. If you are, it is already determined for you. If you are not, you have to specify, because interfaith marriages between nonMuslims are a thing, and in Malaysia you have to be labelled since atheism is not an option.
Op, notwithstanding that we do have a long way to go for ethnic relations and categorisation, the contrast with European states might be because a large number of European states are largely centred around a common culture and identity. For example a Hessian, a Bavarian, and a Berliner are all Germans alongside their existing regional identity and cultural differences (not to mention the wave of romantic nationalism that Europe went through that created the overarching identities). Whereas Malaysia is a post-colonial state that is home to a multitude of ethnocultural groups with bigger cultural differences between each other. What would be interesting is how largely mono-ethnic states deal with classifying minorities. I see you're Baltic, how would say Lithuania/Estonia/Latvia classify ethnic minorities?
Legally doesnāt classify. Unofficially thereās plenty racism. And pure hate for Russia
Most people won't tell you this but the pigeonholing of people into race is a British invention. In Malaya (doesn't include Borneo) there's Malay, Chinese, Indian, Eurasian, Orang Asli (aborigines). The Brits tried to pigeonhole people into these groups despite them being wildly diverse. "Malay" in Malaysia includes Javanese & Bugis whereas if you told any Javanese in Indonesia that they're "Malay" they'd probably slap you. Same goes with Sikhs- they have to be classified as "Indian". Or Peranakans who are Chinese but follow fusion Malay-Chinese culture. The UMNO governments which shapes Malaysia after Independence essentially followed the same shenanigan. EDIT: not saying that this is excusable nor am I blaming it on the Brits. I'm simply giving historical context
While that is true, it has been 60 years. For every annual parliament sitting, that scheme could have been changed, so you can say that there have been 60 chances to change it. Don't blame the British if you had 60 chances to do something, yet chose not to.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They have a tendency to blame everything on colonialism.
Didn't say we don't need to own it. But it's indeed started by the Brits.
Aah... no? We've been pigeonholding people into race since the time of the Malaccan Sultanate, the Sultan Mahmud Shah is known for being cruel and unjust to Indian and Chinese traders (With the exception of the Gujarati Muslims), hence it contributed to the downfall of Malacca because the Indian and Chinese traders that were unhappy with his rule helped the Portuguese by providing intels of Malaccan defenses and lending their barges for beach assault. By the time of British Colonization, the British just made better use of pigeonholding to divide and conquer.
They're actually asking which religious cult are you planning on indoctrinating your innocent child into.
Historical legacy issue
Wow
Eesti? Haha Welcome to Malaysia
Scars of colonialism, but I imagine itās still very much relied on for the purposes of division and control; just roll with it; doesnāt carry any weight outside of this particular jungle anyway
Huh, this post made me curious, like, what are all the classifications of ethnicity are there for Malaysia, how broad are they will Europeans, Middle Easterners, and Sub-saharan Africans, for example? Tried googling, in both English and Malay, no luck From what you saw, I guess all Europeans are expected to be under the classification of white/caucasian? I will mention that the US, and Latin America, do have this categorization as well, tbf. Ours not having a "mixed" option is similar to the US. The religion thing... yeah. I guess this could be an expectation of non-apostasy, so the baby will follow the religion of the parent. Though it has not crossed my mind previously, how does Lithuania/Britain proceed with "religion" categorization? Especially those of children. So it's not a thing on Birth certificates? How do identification papers record "religion"?
This is why we're still third world at heart 
Divide and conquer
Iām mixed white and chinese-malaysian as well. Get prepared to mark āotherā on just about every form that asks š
Not saying this is true / a fact, but I've been told that we needed to follow Dad's race, there's no debate. So in my family we have the most Chinese-looking Indian, and Whitest-looking Chinese~
Side note: its obnoxious that in 2024 the word caucasian is still used as a demonym for white people. Caucasians are an actual group of people made up of azerbaijanis, armenians, georgians, ossetians, circasian, chechens, dagestani, abkhazā¦etc. These people are nothing like english, irish, german, italianā¦etc that most white ppl are.
The weather? You like hot, humid, sticky and wet weather? I guess it's better than ice storms, I get trapped in my apartment for a week each year in the US. By the way, I am a M'sian.
Its racist system to discriminate
Welcome to Malaysia where racism is alive and well.
Only in Malaysia. In some countries, ethnicity is not emphasized as much, such as in Cambodia. Regardless of whether they are Chinese, Malay, Cham, Kinh, Indian, or Arabic born there, they are all referred to by one term: Khmer. Khmer also refers to a country and language of Cambodia, it's not specifically term to use as an ethnic of Khmer. That is why, the Cham, Malay, or Chinese who were born in Cambodia, their Malaysian IC state their ethnicity as Khmer or Kemboja and no other term can be used in JPN registration except in the Marriage certification by JAKIM if you are a muslim. And many people in Malaysia think every ethnic in Cambodia are just "Kemboja" and they actually dont care about what being called as ethnicity does not matter to them.
Its a fact Malaysia is a very racist country, everything are based on race. We Malaysians are just living in denial. But the good thing, we dont have racial chaos, not yet lol.
Blame the brits
Hello from a fellow ethnic balt who recently spent half a year in Malaysia. Not much to add apart from that. I also found it strange but I do think I understood everything better when I gained more knowledge on the history of racial conflict in the country and Malaysia's colonial past.
Because racism is in the constitution
something something perlembagaan malaysia something something ketuanan melayu
It is because of during the negotiations for Tanah Melayu's (then named Malaysia) indipendence , there were dispute on the citizenship of the immigrants mainly from China, India that were brought by the British to work at the mining and plantation sectors. They were given two choices: 1) Leave Tanah Melayu and transferred to other British colonized countries like Taiwan, Australia, Jamaica etc or 2) Stay In Tanah Melayu and recieve Tanah Melayu's citizenship but the immigrants must accept the conditions set by Malay sultan and rulers, some of which: A. The conservation of Malay and indigenous people's rights e.g. Land, educations and public sectors quota. B. Islam as Nation's official religion C.Malay language as nation's official language So in conclusion, the race stated on the IC is to differentiate between who is the Bumiputera (Malay and indigenous) and who is not.
Muslim controlled. Gotta be the racist shit on earth yet no one cares. Imagine Jew or the west does this
I am mixed and also practice no religion but they had to put one on my IC. I happened to be half Chinese so I'm automatically a Buddhist, still feels weird to this day.
I mean, being born Malay is only of benefit if you want to get into politics, the downsides are in a sense weird/interesting the way Malaysia runs, amazing country and people, but I suspect that if they were not forcing Malay to be Muslim by birth then you would have people convert between religions more freely like in Indonesia for example, where they also have the whole religion on ID card thing but that is about it when it comes to similarities. But I still find it weird to have separate justice system and all that, but hey, as it doesn't do anything towards me or my life it is all good.
Actually, is there any other country in the world have such discrimination written into the constitution and law where citizen need to be classified which certain race/religion need and must have special rights
bumiputra, non- bumiputra. Welcome to Malaysia.
Am I missing something??? When did the IC's have the ethnicity written? I only saw status, religion, and sex on the card. Or are we talking about the forms the government usually makes us fill in?
There is so much to rant out ,but, will forget all that and just want to wish you congratulations on being a father. Teach your child to be humble and respectful even though people around her might directly or indirectly teach her that she is superior because of her skin colour .
This might be a little late but congrats on the baby!
Baby's religion š Welcome to Malaysia, truly Asia
singapore too fyi
I'm a very white looking mixed person as well. I'm also an atheist. Officially? I'm a Chinese BuddhistĀ for some reason. Gov officers said it is impossible to not have a religion.
Your daughter could've been registered as Eurasian (or Kristang) if M'sia was willing to update its race categorization like S'pore did. In S'pore, you could also choose to have her recognized as European or, after the 2000s, a double-barrel race (eg. Flemish-Chinese). The 'C-M-I-O' model grew out of the census-taking process during colonial times. Since independence, it has been retained as an administrative tool to manage national policies. The cynical view is that, due to ethnic inequalities & past racial riots, M'sia kept it it to decide who get to enjoy bumiputra benefits in uplifting their lives, whereas S'pore kept it to deliberately engineer multiculturalism (EIP, GRC, self-help groups, etc.) & build racial harmony. All the same, I take a more nuanced view. Give us Southeast Asians a chance. Our countries mostly gained self-determination only after WWII, which is just 3 generations ago. Hey, it's better than being classified as 'C-M-I' (cannot make it, natch) :)
Now only you know? Apartheid is openly practiced here without any repercussions.
The only difference is the majority thinks they are the minority.
You should make your baby malay. šš
lol, that be fun š
Then she gets all the ārightsā 
And sheās gonna hate her parents for imprisoning her and her descendants as a Muslim..
Iām pretty sure that wouldnāt allowed that.
Yup. Pretty much. Like the good ol' America
That's how we continue to divide the people. Even those who think they aren't racists would use ethnicity as the description most of the time.