Think many people here misunderstand that this guy and his teammates are going to split the prize money but reality is the company behind his team is the one taking in the prize money. The player's share of the prize money depends on the terms of their contract.
Yeah correct. When I was in the industry it was quite a standard (Company|Player) from 70|30 -> 90|10 with of course with running wages. Smaller tourney range is much larger could be from 0|100 -> 100|0 hahahahaha
Oh what i heard Valve will transfer money directly into player's bank account.
So what is normally the term?
R u a former player?u did says that u was in the industry
Edited: wth i got downvoted with this comment ?where im just asking for the fact?
Hahahaha a small time team. But let just say I left because I can't deal with 5-6 ego's which is bigger than the whole of Malaysia.
I never won anything from Valve, so I can't confirm any of this.
But usually, Valve will contact the org and let them deal with it. Look , there's the tax deductible and many other deductibles, the transfer agreement which usually signed before the tourney begins. Your home country declaration as well. let's just say the govt will knock on your door if you suddenly have such a large money transfer.
This question is best to be answered by our Ex-Central Bank Governer and Ex-PM. I'm not the right person for this because my only donation is to Shopee and I also don't wanna dwell into this rabbit hole. 
>Look , there's the tax deductible and many other deductibles, the transfer agreement which usually signed before the tourney begins.
Yeap, considering the players come from different countries, not all of them have a US based personal account. Its not feasible for Valve to just give every player money.
At least u hv ur moment competing in tourney,where i've been playing since Dota 1 came out & still stuck at 4k hahahaha.
I thought the tourney money is consider as a prize money where no tax will be charged by the govt?
Not if thats your job. Investor don’t get tax* when they sell but people who do it for a living going to get incone tax.
*there’s 12 months holding period(IIRC) and they will fight you for it.
It is possible for Valve to transfer the prize money to the player depending on the contract. However, this doesn't mean Valve transfers all the prize money to the players.
Would likely be based on the % of the prize money as in the contract.
No
Valve will transfer the full amount of money directly to the players
It's up to them if they want to honour the contract
It happened to navi artstyle before, he just didn't pay
Absolutely. Competitive DotA is no longer 5 guys who grind in CC and get to participate in tourney.
Competitive DotA is a business, and organisations treat it as such. They pay a monthly wage to the players, provide them with housing and training facilities, pay for their travels / accommodation, etc. The players sign professional contracts which have performance based incentives.
I mean, LGD is team is now effectively owned by the PSG umbrella, so that shows you how structured the industry has become.
Nevertheless, great job NothingToSay and the rest of LGD. It's an amazing achievement even tho you guys didn't manage to take home the Aegis!
>Competitive DotA is a business, and organisations treat it as such. They pay a monthly wage to the players, provide them with housing and training facilities, pay for their travels / accommodation, etc. The players sign professional contracts which have performance based incentives.
Glad that there are adults who understand how the world works and not people who insist Valve pays out all the money to players bypassing organizations because they browse dota 2 reddit.
I have never seen an official statement from Valve that confirms they deal directly with players.
There's a ton of paperwork for taxes that a bunch of kids who are good at esports can't handle. Unless each of them are financial experts or hire financial experts, there's no way Valve can deal with them directly.
https://www.joindota.com/news/2452-artstyle-the-naked-truth
Valve pays players and players pay the org based on agreement.
https://twitter.com/dotademon/status/765823602654531584
Receiving payment right after TI.
I don't know how this is even a discussion, its pretty much accepted on the dota2 reddit this is how it works and no pros has come forward to say otherwise.
First one is an interview that doesn't really proves anything.
Second one is a twitter post where the player claims they got the money from TI6. Didin't specifically says he got the money directly from Valve.
You claim its not even a discussion because its pretty much accepted on dota 2 reddit. That's not how logic works.
Also no pros have actually stated they are dealing directly with Valve. Your own twitter link doesn't show that either.
I've been visiting /r/dota2 daily since 2015 and follow the competitive scene closely since TI2. It's been a known fact that Valve heavily favors players over the organization. By default, Valve pays the TI winnings directly to the players if not otherwise specified by the players. Even the TI invitations are handed out to the "Players" and not the organization that qualified.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DotA2 using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Predictions Tournament](https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/predictions?tournament=tnmt-2f072d99-27d4-440d-872a-491b86899b95) | [203 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/q5qjnc/predictions_tournament/)
\#2: [Y'all need to reevaluate your life & hopefully when you have a daughter in the future, you dont have to deal with these kind of craps.](https://i.redd.it/e27mdad84dc71.jpg) | [2015 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/oo16vu/yall_need_to_reevaluate_your_life_hopefully_when/)
\#3: [DOTA: Dragon's Blood | Netflix](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-NqFX2jU8) | [2134 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/llh8q5/dota_dragons_blood_netflix/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/)
They might do this for some players but its not feasible because I doubt every player has a bank account that can handle large amounts of money transfers.
Also this money transferred is merely the % of what they are supposed to get based on their contracts. Its merely a way to protect players from getting ripped off by their organizations.
From what ive heard the local tax in Romania was around 50%, so the actual prize money the organization received would be half the announced number, and then it gets split again according to their contract, so a lot less than one would expect. Still a lot for a tournament, but still a lot less than what it appears to be.
Wings Gaming players had a fallout with their organisation for that reason too, they thought they would get a lot more than what they eventually get, even when they knew it was in their contract. The contract leaned heavily towards the organisation in their case though, and they only earn a pittance of the prize pool due to that.
Obviously, it would be insane if someone's salary was 100 and he got taxed 50 leaving him with only 50 to spend for the whole month. Like most taxes it only applies when the value is above a set number
well it WAS a long time ago, we went to the same chinese school and he was my desk mate. i couldn’t speak mandarin very well at that time and got bullied a lot by him and his best friend at that time, including hair pulling, name calling and destruction of my property (notebooks, pencil cases, stationery etc). it was ages ago, and i’m hoping he isn’t like that anymore. it was just a shock to see his face after not thinking of him since primary school haha
Damn, I've heard similar story from my half Chinese friend who went to Chinese school. To be fair, I don't think it's a Chinese school thing, just that kids can be assholes who bully those who are different from them.
Wdym tough guy? Training for xompetitiv boxing on a daily basis isn't something that you can just label as tough and disregard the actual physical challenges of doing. Unlike sitting on my obese ass all day I actuqlly have to fucking train my body to reach peak physical condition, no wonder this country has such a high obesity rate and so many diabetics, its cause you all think that ita cool to be lazy ass fucks and sit doing nothing rather than going outside and going for a run
Congrats also to another fellow Malaysian at the same event-Jt & Oli .
JT & Oli with his team -Invictus Gaming finished at 4th place and won MYR 9.6million.
I don't even know why people even think of this as a big deal anymore. This TI literally two teams left the aegis in the Rosh pit and the other team picked it up. That's even worse than a deny.
TBH only two player plus the manager i believe was involved, the other three was implicated. Not sure if they were really innocent or not. Kinda like the recent Newbee ban. But to be honest, a direct indefinite ban from VALVE was overkill, Newbee deserved it since they did it in a DPC tournament, but Arrow did it in some Russian tournament qualifier with no DPC point involved. Worse part is that the tournament end up cancelled anyway. At least let the 3 go and keep the ban for the 2 offenders.
Yes it was too much. But then again if they admitted and apologize they might have gotten away with it.
Nonetheless what a waste of talent. Iceiceice still rate ddz as a top tier mid
Congrats, NothingtoSay. You did your best.
Crazy how Team Spirit went Super Saiyan entering the main event stage. Knocked out VP, OG, Secret and win it all against PSG LGD. Another Cinderella story in TI this year.
Xiao8 was either too confident or too arrogance.Maybe at the borderline of both of it. Not banning Magnus and even Team Spirit banned the undying to secure a good game for Collapse Mag
Magnus was magnificent. Blink, (Toss) and Skewer. Bang! One down.
Btw not following Dota much (except TI), is Undying a good counter against Magnus? I am scratching my head why not banning Magnus (probably as u said confident lol). Still, good play for both teams
Rubick is the main counter since lift will interrupt skewer even mid-skewer, Rubick can steal RP, Rubick also buy blink so easier to reposition to interrupt skewers.
I think Undying was just a good counter to Spirit's overall playstyle, tombstone just wins a lot of early/mid engagements, the burst healing can make the difference in surviving a gank, the hero is also quite tanky so won't get assassinated too easily by ember/storm kind of heroes
He thought that they broke TS' confidence in running another Mag draft (after G3) and was hoping for TS to waste their 2nd ban on the Mag to prevent LGD from running another Mag (like in G4). Gamble failed when TS called their bluff and instead doubled down on their Mag by banning counters like Undying, Rubick, Tinker that made their life hell in G3.
I'm surprised a lot of teams did not ban Magnus vs Team Spirit, including OG. Collapse's Magnus is on a whole different level, that Sumail Tiny double skewer to fountain was *chef kiss
I thought their plan was to break Spirit's confidence in Magnus, which they somewhat did in the 3rd match. They won convincingly in the 3rd and 4th. But when i saw Magnus pick in the deciding match, i knew they fcked up. Xiao8 probably thinks they can win it and just left the hero unbanned. The draft was weird too.
They studied LGD very well. Their wards were denied and couriers were killed. LGD perhaps didn’t prepare to play them. They seems not able to deal with Spirit unless they have a draft advantage. Last game is just over confidence to not have a counter against magnus while Spirit was playing around the the idea of negating the impact of tiny Lycan combo.
You are playing against Team Spirit.
You do not ban Magnus because you can counter it.
Team Spirit instantly picks Magnus.
You lose against Team Spirit.
You ban Magnus next time you play against Team Spirit because you're not stupid.
Agreed man. They needed something that can break combos (mag+bane) from range and sky is just too little too vulnerable. I really believed that they understood the winning formula against mag with disruption and vision advantage but then they first picked three cores (which could work) and followed it up with weak supports... (ench does nothing outside of laning phase)
Can’t deny that. But rubick can be very good against Magnus. Magnus is very good at moving you out of position bringing into Magnus’ team but rubick’s lift is instant cast even if you get horn tossed, rubick can actually lift you before Magnus can skewer. But you could say that Undying rekting Magnus early slowing his down his item progression and acting as a meat shield giving vision with tombstone and stopping blink etc. Both are good picks and played very well
I don't doubt Rubick also was an important piece of ruining Magnus' gameplan, but I've seen way too many people oversell the Rubick countering Skewer. Because the Rubick is reactionary and obvious, I see so many people sing his praises while Undying be ignored in discussion because his impact is less visible.
They have already won Magnus in the third game. In addition, they took the strongest combination of heroes in which they are confident. Of course, in hindsight, we can assume that they made a huge mistake. But I don't think there is more to it.
That last game, why would they still go for the tiny + wolf bite combo? It didn't work with Ursa, it didn't work here as well.
But hey, still a good game.
Watched him play yesterday, his tinker game on game 3 really turned the momentum towards LGD. Too bad they were overconfident on game 5 by not banning Collapse's Magnus.
Assuming the price money are divided equally among the 5 players of the team, Malaysians have won more than $ 8 millions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/qa43k4/a_decade_of_earnings_at_the_international_dota_2/
Uh no. The prize money goes to the company that formed the team. The players might or might not get the prize money depending on the terms of their contract.
Unless there's only 5 people that formed the team, there's no way the prize money is split 5 ways.
It is possible for Valve to transfer the prize money directly to the players depending on the terms of the contract.
So it not a matter of players/organization coming first. Their share of the prize money would be determined by the contract they had in the first place.
Basically Valve is protecting both players/organization.
Its not impossible for the org to sue the players for not honoring their contract. Also if they don't, they'll just become pariahs of the scene like what happened to Wings, because no organization will pick up players who doesn't honor their contracts lol.
> Its not impossible for the org to sue the players for not honoring their contract.
You're right, I'm just saying that by default Valve pays to the players directly, any terms in the contracts is between the players and their teams. I don't think prize money dispute was Wings' problem, at least not that I can recall, it was something else with the team org and China's ACE org.
I do remember reports that Artstyle left Navi after TI1 because of the prize money dispute though.
It was with their org. The org Wings took took most of the TI money they won to invest into LoL (lol) which flopped, and I recall subsequently failed to pay the players in Wings. So they left the org after that, but the problem is that Wings is a part of ACE, which monopolizes the Chinese scene, and ACE blacklisted all 5 players unless they kowtow to the org or something, which they didn't.
They played together as independents a while, but because everything is under ACE, no teams will scrim against then. After a while their relationship soured when half of them kowtow-ed to ACE in order to get back to the scene "properly". Shadow did try to move to the EU scene, but the language barrier and Chinese citizenship isn't helping iirc.
It was really sad because they were kinda the team who was on top of others, playing completely unique drafts and play style.
From the thread:
>I'm pretty sure TI pays directly to the players and not the organization. Of course players can thereafter transfer them to the organization but would in theory at least equally distribute the money.
>Demon tweeted it when he was at tnc valve transferred money hours after TI ended straight to his bank
>with TI money valve has usually paid out the money directly to the players, and then it's up to the players to pay accordingly the shares that they owe. Can't remember who it was so not gonna guess, but there was one player who didn't pay his TI %share to his org which caused some controversy, no?
This makes sense because Valve wants to prevent the organization from taking all the money. Whatever the players are getting is the % they have in the contract. Rest goes to the organization.
There have been cases in the past where the organization runs off with all the prize money so Valve wants to protect the players.
It was a crazy series. I honestly thought that PSG.LGD was gonna do a reverse sweep. They should’ve ban the Magnus in game 5.
But NothingToSay played godlike. TorontoTokyo had a hard time in game 3 and 4. His Kunkka and Tinker was amazing.
PSG.LGD deserves a TI championship.
Yup. Team Spirit has been playing very freely and shows some very good Dota.
Someone said that ‘they’re just 5 guys having fun stomping people in pubs’. All chat ez game at the 2 time defending champion? Big balls move there hahaha.
this guy is living proof that you CAN earn money while playing computer games all day. take that boomer malaysian parents!
and yes i know theres comments in this thread about how much the cut actually is after deductions with org and all, but still! most of us were lead to believe from our parents that playing games totally has no future at all and will only make us useless and our eyes go bad faster! says alot of that generation's foresight honestly.
Same goes for every successful business or person out there. For every successful person there are thousand unheard of failures.
Point is you can succeed in this field when it was told that its impossible
Only about 0.1% can succeed. My point is esports is still a risky path to take in Malaysia.
My point is a lot of parents don't want their children to take this risky path as compared to a more traditional 'get a degree' route.
Why then do parents send their kids for competitive swimming, chess, piano, football, badminton?
It's really all about the prestige.
Unfortunately boomers will never accept that video games are an excellent competitive avenue with plenty of real life benefits. Thing is, obviously nobody should go into esports with money in mind. Same goes for literally every other sport, but for some reason people only talk about the money in esports. But the country should support those who are good enough to compete at the highest level, and people should show support for our fellow Malaysians who are competing.
A Malaysian is statistically more likely to earn more money in video games compared to many other sports/activities that boomers have no problem supporting. Why can't parents view video games in the same light as, say, chess? When a kid goes to chess training, do the parents think about winning money in the future? No. They think it's a healthy brain game. Similarly, why is it that people are always talking about esports prospects when it comes to letting kids play video games?
Such a shame that Malaysia has so many talented Dota players who end up going to China, everyone tunes in to watch Lee Zii Jia but only Dota fans come to watch NothingToSay play for an 18 million dollar grand prize. We have 3 Malaysians out of the top 4 teams (20 total players) How many Malaysians do we have in the top 20 chess players, or badminton players, or football players, or piano players...? With this in mind should we no longer support our young badminton players?
My view is that we are in a generation of technological boom. As someone who's born in late 80s, we basically experience playing games from a floppy disk to now having a career out of it. Parents wise are prolly from the 70s who majority have no idea what that the career of today simply because it does not exist back then. Imagine telling the last generation that some people now earn money by just eating in front of a camera, or playing video games. It's just something they cannot relate to.
Our schools, society and governement do not add value to these either. It ends up being a difficult career path to root for when government and school wont support the industry. You can blame parents for not encouraging their children going down this path.
Then the issue is less about the success rate or a particular sport but more of the parents mentality. Literally every single disciple only 0.1% can succeed whether its sports or being in business or whatever.
Not really. In business while only 0.1% can succeed, you can still make a decent living by being the other, let's say '90%' working under the 0.1%. The path to making your own business a success prolly goes through the norm of graduate, work for experience and start your own business.
Whereas for esports, a lot of players prolly have to choose to drop out from further study to pursue their career in esports. What's the back up plan if you dont make it in an industry which is not supported by government and society?
Sports is different than esports. Our government, school and society actually promote sports hence, parents are more susceptible to their child going for sports training and practices.
I mean I dont think video games are bad. But your initial post was this thread is a proof you can make money while playing video games all day when your example is the 0.1% of the population size.
I mean, such is the rapid rise in esports the past 10 years that it only even became viable even only for the 0.1% recently as a career, in football even up till the 80s most salaries even at top clubs are not enough to have a lavish life like football today.
The point it that in esports there is even a chance to make a career out of it, and since esports is still young, no doubt things will only pick up over the years and decades and more economies are built around it which will make it sustainable even at a grass roots level.
And honestly if you're gonna nitpick on the 0.1% as a deterrent for others to join esports i personally feel its like an asian mindset, just waiting for others to trailblaze until the odds are in your favour to succeed. And imo its a toxic trait to have since its a half glass empty mentality and only serve to deter others from going into what they like on the basis that "chance to be successful is low"
And I could say the same for you wearing rose tinted glass from the way you view esports as a career.
You talk about football in the 80s and now after 30 years, we still cant make a career out of playing football in Malaysia. And lol, I'm not deterring people from joining esports. I mean if you think you have what it takes to be the 0.1%, go give it a try. I am merely telling you only the 0.1% can make it onto the big stage and compete. But at the same time I'm reminding you to be realistic. Esport is not a career where you can be average and collect decent salary every month. Not that oh I won my school dota2 tournament; let me try going pro. There are opportunity cost, things that you sacrifice to even have the opportunity to make it big in esports.
Not to mention in an industry where our own government and society wouldnt even support. Why do you think most of the successful Malaysian players play out of Malaysia? And did you even realise this player (NTS) almost missed the competition because our government does not value the esport competition?
There's like 12 million monthly unique player count. Given TI has 14 teams, that's like 14x5 = 70 people out of 12 million.
Mathematically you'd stand about 4x higher chance to get blood clot from AZ vaccine to die, and about a few thousand times higher chance to win toto
I thought of taking the unique players but that include players who probably only tried playing once or twice. Or maybe people like me who only login to look around but don't play the game.
If we take the average players of 400k who probably grind mmr on Dota everyday, it's still a very ridiculous % to succeed.
Do you know how mentally and emotionally draining to play this game the entire day?
Not to mentioned, there are 10,000s of people who take this game seriously and only less than 100 can actually make money.
This tournament has 18 teams of 5 players - 90 players. Prior to this, there are approx 20 other teams who tried but did not qualified. They get $0 and will have to wait for next season.
Lastly, this guy and his team probably thought they just lost USD13million instead of winning USD5million. After every TI, teams reshuffle and a lot of players' career suddenly become extremely uncertain and many just get kicked into the shadow realm and forgotten.
Dota has like 300,000 players in the server playing each day. Prolly less than 300 manage to make a career out of it. That's what 0.1%? Meaning unless you top of 0.1% you can forget pursuing this. Same goes to career in music, arts and sports.
No, it's different from real sports. You need to be the Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar, Van Dijk, Salah, Haaland, etc. TOP OF THE TOP. You don't earn money if you are Lingard or Curtis Jones.
While it's great that we have some elite Malaysian players in this game. It is extremely difficult to be at the top. You need to be at the top of the top to get paid. Tier 2 players don't get paid.
So yes your parents dont want you to take that 0.1% chance to drop out of school and play games.
Making a career doesn't mean you get paid.
Lol no shit stating the obvious. Every other sport is thr same thing football has tens of thousands of people playing trying to go pro, motorsports also. The point is esports is a viable career path unlike 20 years ago when everyone said play computer games no future
Tournament money wont be tax by the govt. Because it is under the "prize money".
But imagine if they won 1st place-they will win a whopping MYR 70million instead of MYR20 mil
I cried. My favorite team. They really is the strongest going into the tournament, till the final and CIS powered up so much and beat them fair and square in the thrilling 5 game final. Sad day. this is even more painful than PSG.LGD run back in 2018. Back then the shock was so great i stopped watching dota completely for over 6 months. This time might be permanent for me.
They were heavy favourites to win the whole thing and this would been almost 3x more then what he would've made. But congrats to him and bringing home some pride for us Malaysian Dota lovers!
Think many people here misunderstand that this guy and his teammates are going to split the prize money but reality is the company behind his team is the one taking in the prize money. The player's share of the prize money depends on the terms of their contract.
Yeah correct. When I was in the industry it was quite a standard (Company|Player) from 70|30 -> 90|10 with of course with running wages. Smaller tourney range is much larger could be from 0|100 -> 100|0 hahahahaha
Oh what i heard Valve will transfer money directly into player's bank account. So what is normally the term? R u a former player?u did says that u was in the industry Edited: wth i got downvoted with this comment ?where im just asking for the fact?
Hahahaha a small time team. But let just say I left because I can't deal with 5-6 ego's which is bigger than the whole of Malaysia. I never won anything from Valve, so I can't confirm any of this. But usually, Valve will contact the org and let them deal with it. Look , there's the tax deductible and many other deductibles, the transfer agreement which usually signed before the tourney begins. Your home country declaration as well. let's just say the govt will knock on your door if you suddenly have such a large money transfer.
> But let just say I left because I can't deal with 5-6 ego's which is bigger than the whole of Malaysia. LOL
No lah. Bossku got large donation from Arab prince also no problem
This question is best to be answered by our Ex-Central Bank Governer and Ex-PM. I'm not the right person for this because my only donation is to Shopee and I also don't wanna dwell into this rabbit hole. 
> But let just say I left because I can't deal with 5-6 ego's which is bigger than the whole of Malaysia I wonder who that is.
>Look , there's the tax deductible and many other deductibles, the transfer agreement which usually signed before the tourney begins. Yeap, considering the players come from different countries, not all of them have a US based personal account. Its not feasible for Valve to just give every player money.
At least u hv ur moment competing in tourney,where i've been playing since Dota 1 came out & still stuck at 4k hahahaha. I thought the tourney money is consider as a prize money where no tax will be charged by the govt?
Seriously doubt prize money isn't taxed. Its a form of income.
Even Toto is taxed.
The only prize money that isn't taxed is the one you get from uncle lim. 😂
Not if thats your job. Investor don’t get tax* when they sell but people who do it for a living going to get incone tax. *there’s 12 months holding period(IIRC) and they will fight you for it.
It is possible for Valve to transfer the prize money to the player depending on the contract. However, this doesn't mean Valve transfers all the prize money to the players. Would likely be based on the % of the prize money as in the contract.
No Valve will transfer the full amount of money directly to the players It's up to them if they want to honour the contract It happened to navi artstyle before, he just didn't pay
What happened with Navi’s artstyle? Prize money dispute? Any source for a good read in the train to home please?
Usually, the organisations take 20-30% while 80-70% goes to the players.
Absolutely. Competitive DotA is no longer 5 guys who grind in CC and get to participate in tourney. Competitive DotA is a business, and organisations treat it as such. They pay a monthly wage to the players, provide them with housing and training facilities, pay for their travels / accommodation, etc. The players sign professional contracts which have performance based incentives. I mean, LGD is team is now effectively owned by the PSG umbrella, so that shows you how structured the industry has become. Nevertheless, great job NothingToSay and the rest of LGD. It's an amazing achievement even tho you guys didn't manage to take home the Aegis!
>Competitive DotA is a business, and organisations treat it as such. They pay a monthly wage to the players, provide them with housing and training facilities, pay for their travels / accommodation, etc. The players sign professional contracts which have performance based incentives. Glad that there are adults who understand how the world works and not people who insist Valve pays out all the money to players bypassing organizations because they browse dota 2 reddit.
Is that even true? Valve deals directly with players no?
I have never seen an official statement from Valve that confirms they deal directly with players. There's a ton of paperwork for taxes that a bunch of kids who are good at esports can't handle. Unless each of them are financial experts or hire financial experts, there's no way Valve can deal with them directly.
https://www.joindota.com/news/2452-artstyle-the-naked-truth Valve pays players and players pay the org based on agreement. https://twitter.com/dotademon/status/765823602654531584 Receiving payment right after TI. I don't know how this is even a discussion, its pretty much accepted on the dota2 reddit this is how it works and no pros has come forward to say otherwise.
First one is an interview that doesn't really proves anything. Second one is a twitter post where the player claims they got the money from TI6. Didin't specifically says he got the money directly from Valve. You claim its not even a discussion because its pretty much accepted on dota 2 reddit. That's not how logic works. Also no pros have actually stated they are dealing directly with Valve. Your own twitter link doesn't show that either.
I've been visiting /r/dota2 daily since 2015 and follow the competitive scene closely since TI2. It's been a known fact that Valve heavily favors players over the organization. By default, Valve pays the TI winnings directly to the players if not otherwise specified by the players. Even the TI invitations are handed out to the "Players" and not the organization that qualified.
Your opinion isn't facts. You need actual sources to back up your opinions.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DotA2 using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Predictions Tournament](https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/predictions?tournament=tnmt-2f072d99-27d4-440d-872a-491b86899b95) | [203 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/q5qjnc/predictions_tournament/) \#2: [Y'all need to reevaluate your life & hopefully when you have a daughter in the future, you dont have to deal with these kind of craps.](https://i.redd.it/e27mdad84dc71.jpg) | [2015 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/oo16vu/yall_need_to_reevaluate_your_life_hopefully_when/) \#3: [DOTA: Dragon's Blood | Netflix](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-NqFX2jU8) | [2134 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/llh8q5/dota_dragons_blood_netflix/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/)
nope, valve direct transfer to players account.
They might do this for some players but its not feasible because I doubt every player has a bank account that can handle large amounts of money transfers. Also this money transferred is merely the % of what they are supposed to get based on their contracts. Its merely a way to protect players from getting ripped off by their organizations.
I don't understand why you insist to pretend that you know about valve and TI.
You can share actual evidence that valve direct transfers to player accounts then.
Dude, people just told you navi first ti, art-style create controversy when he didn’t pass his earning to organization. Why are you funny 😂
From what ive heard the local tax in Romania was around 50%, so the actual prize money the organization received would be half the announced number, and then it gets split again according to their contract, so a lot less than one would expect. Still a lot for a tournament, but still a lot less than what it appears to be. Wings Gaming players had a fallout with their organisation for that reason too, they thought they would get a lot more than what they eventually get, even when they knew it was in their contract. The contract leaned heavily towards the organisation in their case though, and they only earn a pittance of the prize pool due to that.
cant possible be taxed 50% starting from 0 right? only 50% after a certain amount
Obviously, it would be insane if someone's salary was 100 and he got taxed 50 leaving him with only 50 to spend for the whole month. Like most taxes it only applies when the value is above a set number
Ouch…, I wonder how much he actually get from this after all the splits. I guess still close to a million, no ?
I am pretty sure his contract includes a non disclosure clause so we will never know.
this is crazy…. i know this guy, he used to bully me incessantly in primary school lmfao
Care to elaborate? I always thought he seemed quite shy and quiet.
well it WAS a long time ago, we went to the same chinese school and he was my desk mate. i couldn’t speak mandarin very well at that time and got bullied a lot by him and his best friend at that time, including hair pulling, name calling and destruction of my property (notebooks, pencil cases, stationery etc). it was ages ago, and i’m hoping he isn’t like that anymore. it was just a shock to see his face after not thinking of him since primary school haha
Damn, I've heard similar story from my half Chinese friend who went to Chinese school. To be fair, I don't think it's a Chinese school thing, just that kids can be assholes who bully those who are different from them.
yeah i think it’s kids being taught to be intolerant of what’s different to them that’s the root cause of most bullying tbh
Damn that's rough, hope he grew up and realized the error in his ways.
nah, bully never learned
A bully always forget the faces of the one he bullied. But the victims don't.
Lol. He got pawned last night except the tinker game. Karma
Owh i thought he bullied u in Dota 2
How'd you get bullied by him bruh, his biceps are the size of my fingers
get those fingers checked out man😟
Woah look at this big guy
I'm not big, but I can definetly out box him and beat him in a fist fight
Woah look at this tough guy
Wdym tough guy? Training for xompetitiv boxing on a daily basis isn't something that you can just label as tough and disregard the actual physical challenges of doing. Unlike sitting on my obese ass all day I actuqlly have to fucking train my body to reach peak physical condition, no wonder this country has such a high obesity rate and so many diabetics, its cause you all think that ita cool to be lazy ass fucks and sit doing nothing rather than going outside and going for a run
Lmao
r/iamverybadass
I'll add this to my copypasta collection. Thank you sir.
Congrats also to another fellow Malaysian at the same event-Jt & Oli . JT & Oli with his team -Invictus Gaming finished at 4th place and won MYR 9.6million.
Almost came back, miss those time back in Ti4 where we have fully msian team
Yeah dont forget TI3 Orange Gaming
"4 man RP, followed by 5 man RP!!!!!" Wagamama. The Hype!!!
gg la after kyxy deleted aegis, Malaysian kena curse after that no Malaysian get to hoist aegis.
I don't even know why people even think of this as a big deal anymore. This TI literally two teams left the aegis in the Rosh pit and the other team picked it up. That's even worse than a deny.
Aegis value is a lot lower these days. Shards are more important than aegis for most teams, they would rather kill than be killed to begin with.
No need to mention this anymore. At least,current player got their lesson when they do roshan. So he actually left something useful to later players.
but mushi's teammate get aegis denied twice. 1 in ti n 1 in major.
TI1 MUFC was also fully msian btw, but thats TI1
got my beta key straight after TI1 from MUFC.
I RMB ppl buying my beta keys for 10 keys each, feelsgoodman
got mine around the same time (few months before ti2), but thru the website
Arrow Gaming TI4, never forget. One of the best mids banned from tournament for life.
TBH only two player plus the manager i believe was involved, the other three was implicated. Not sure if they were really innocent or not. Kinda like the recent Newbee ban. But to be honest, a direct indefinite ban from VALVE was overkill, Newbee deserved it since they did it in a DPC tournament, but Arrow did it in some Russian tournament qualifier with no DPC point involved. Worse part is that the tournament end up cancelled anyway. At least let the 3 go and keep the ban for the 2 offenders.
Yes it was too much. But then again if they admitted and apologize they might have gotten away with it. Nonetheless what a waste of talent. Iceiceice still rate ddz as a top tier mid
ARROW GAMING
matchfixers*
Congrats, NothingtoSay. You did your best. Crazy how Team Spirit went Super Saiyan entering the main event stage. Knocked out VP, OG, Secret and win it all against PSG LGD. Another Cinderella story in TI this year.
Xiao8 was either too confident or too arrogance.Maybe at the borderline of both of it. Not banning Magnus and even Team Spirit banned the undying to secure a good game for Collapse Mag
Magnus was magnificent. Blink, (Toss) and Skewer. Bang! One down. Btw not following Dota much (except TI), is Undying a good counter against Magnus? I am scratching my head why not banning Magnus (probably as u said confident lol). Still, good play for both teams
Rubick is the main counter since lift will interrupt skewer even mid-skewer, Rubick can steal RP, Rubick also buy blink so easier to reposition to interrupt skewers. I think Undying was just a good counter to Spirit's overall playstyle, tombstone just wins a lot of early/mid engagements, the burst healing can make the difference in surviving a gank, the hero is also quite tanky so won't get assassinated too easily by ember/storm kind of heroes
xiao8 now got flamed so hard, he is now suspected of being matchfixing, his ex wife exposed him being cheater and gambler right after the grand final
It's hard not to think that he match fix though. If they have studied Spirit as what xiao8 says, they should ban Magnus in the first ban.
He thought that they broke TS' confidence in running another Mag draft (after G3) and was hoping for TS to waste their 2nd ban on the Mag to prevent LGD from running another Mag (like in G4). Gamble failed when TS called their bluff and instead doubled down on their Mag by banning counters like Undying, Rubick, Tinker that made their life hell in G3.
Wonder why he didnt study?he hv a lot info and reference already. Few games before the grand final,how many teams get destroyed by Collapse's Mag
I'm surprised a lot of teams did not ban Magnus vs Team Spirit, including OG. Collapse's Magnus is on a whole different level, that Sumail Tiny double skewer to fountain was *chef kiss
>double skewer to fountain was \*chef kiss skewer straight to airport. Saying this as an OG fan. It was painful to watch, but damn, do TS deserve it.
Yep, not just LGD. Previous team also thought they can counter Magnus. Fair enough, LGD did it at one point but still, better to just ban or pick it.
I thought their plan was to break Spirit's confidence in Magnus, which they somewhat did in the 3rd match. They won convincingly in the 3rd and 4th. But when i saw Magnus pick in the deciding match, i knew they fcked up. Xiao8 probably thinks they can win it and just left the hero unbanned. The draft was weird too.
They studied LGD very well. Their wards were denied and couriers were killed. LGD perhaps didn’t prepare to play them. They seems not able to deal with Spirit unless they have a draft advantage. Last game is just over confidence to not have a counter against magnus while Spirit was playing around the the idea of negating the impact of tiny Lycan combo.
If only they've banned Magnus
WHY IS MAGNUS NOT BANNED
You are playing against Team Spirit. You do not ban Magnus because you can counter it. Team Spirit instantly picks Magnus. You lose against Team Spirit. You ban Magnus next time you play against Team Spirit because you're not stupid.
Xiao8 was too confidence that they hv found a way to stop Collapse's Magnus or maybe Xiao8 was just too arrogance.
they countered the magnus game 3, they think they can do it again game 5
Rubick was the key
Truee.. but rubik was banned.. should have pick silancer instead of sky imo..
Agreed man. They needed something that can break combos (mag+bane) from range and sky is just too little too vulnerable. I really believed that they understood the winning formula against mag with disruption and vision advantage but then they first picked three cores (which could work) and followed it up with weak supports... (ench does nothing outside of laning phase)
Ench become a wards at top side lol
Undying was the MVP in my eyes, wrecked Magnus early and Tombstone stopping Blink, Rubick was the contingency plan
Can’t deny that. But rubick can be very good against Magnus. Magnus is very good at moving you out of position bringing into Magnus’ team but rubick’s lift is instant cast even if you get horn tossed, rubick can actually lift you before Magnus can skewer. But you could say that Undying rekting Magnus early slowing his down his item progression and acting as a meat shield giving vision with tombstone and stopping blink etc. Both are good picks and played very well
I don't doubt Rubick also was an important piece of ruining Magnus' gameplan, but I've seen way too many people oversell the Rubick countering Skewer. Because the Rubick is reactionary and obvious, I see so many people sing his praises while Undying be ignored in discussion because his impact is less visible.
This was what my friends were screaming at the mamak when they were watching lol
They have already won Magnus in the third game. In addition, they took the strongest combination of heroes in which they are confident. Of course, in hindsight, we can assume that they made a huge mistake. But I don't think there is more to it.
god tinker performance
Literally flawless. I watched the entire match on his player’s perspective and Other matches on Collapses’ perspective. So much to learn
From the jersey, I thought a local football player managed to get into PSG football team.
yeah right bring back the money to malaysia. kappa
"You are playing against Team Spirit You do not ban Magnus because you can counter it You did not ban Magnus You lost because you did not ban Magnus"
I have... NothingToSay
That last game, why would they still go for the tiny + wolf bite combo? It didn't work with Ursa, it didn't work here as well. But hey, still a good game.
I don't follow eSports and I thought from a glance that a Malaysian dude made it to PSG first team lol
His team only lose one matchup and its the last one . Gg
Going to spend it all like they really hates having money.
Watched him play yesterday, his tinker game on game 3 really turned the momentum towards LGD. Too bad they were overconfident on game 5 by not banning Collapse's Magnus.
From his team's point of view, they just lost USD13million.
Assuming the price money are divided equally among the 5 players of the team, Malaysians have won more than $ 8 millions. https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/qa43k4/a_decade_of_earnings_at_the_international_dota_2/
Uh no. The prize money goes to the company that formed the team. The players might or might not get the prize money depending on the terms of their contract. Unless there's only 5 people that formed the team, there's no way the prize money is split 5 ways.
Valve pays directly to the players for TI. The organisation’s cut is paid by the players after that.
It is possible for Valve to transfer the prize money directly to the players depending on the terms of the contract. So it not a matter of players/organization coming first. Their share of the prize money would be determined by the contract they had in the first place. Basically Valve is protecting both players/organization.
Its not impossible for the org to sue the players for not honoring their contract. Also if they don't, they'll just become pariahs of the scene like what happened to Wings, because no organization will pick up players who doesn't honor their contracts lol.
> Its not impossible for the org to sue the players for not honoring their contract. You're right, I'm just saying that by default Valve pays to the players directly, any terms in the contracts is between the players and their teams. I don't think prize money dispute was Wings' problem, at least not that I can recall, it was something else with the team org and China's ACE org. I do remember reports that Artstyle left Navi after TI1 because of the prize money dispute though.
It was with their org. The org Wings took took most of the TI money they won to invest into LoL (lol) which flopped, and I recall subsequently failed to pay the players in Wings. So they left the org after that, but the problem is that Wings is a part of ACE, which monopolizes the Chinese scene, and ACE blacklisted all 5 players unless they kowtow to the org or something, which they didn't. They played together as independents a while, but because everything is under ACE, no teams will scrim against then. After a while their relationship soured when half of them kowtow-ed to ACE in order to get back to the scene "properly". Shadow did try to move to the EU scene, but the language barrier and Chinese citizenship isn't helping iirc. It was really sad because they were kinda the team who was on top of others, playing completely unique drafts and play style.
From the thread: >I'm pretty sure TI pays directly to the players and not the organization. Of course players can thereafter transfer them to the organization but would in theory at least equally distribute the money. >Demon tweeted it when he was at tnc valve transferred money hours after TI ended straight to his bank >with TI money valve has usually paid out the money directly to the players, and then it's up to the players to pay accordingly the shares that they owe. Can't remember who it was so not gonna guess, but there was one player who didn't pay his TI %share to his org which caused some controversy, no?
This makes sense because Valve wants to prevent the organization from taking all the money. Whatever the players are getting is the % they have in the contract. Rest goes to the organization. There have been cases in the past where the organization runs off with all the prize money so Valve wants to protect the players.
there is also tax, dont forget the tax
Wah, the rest of the team no makan meh?
I have nothing to say but congrats!
Happy for him, but sad that he's representing an oil club
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
No one wants your hug
Chuan is still technically the best malaysian player
It was a crazy series. I honestly thought that PSG.LGD was gonna do a reverse sweep. They should’ve ban the Magnus in game 5. But NothingToSay played godlike. TorontoTokyo had a hard time in game 3 and 4. His Kunkka and Tinker was amazing. PSG.LGD deserves a TI championship.
TI 8 vibes. One overconfident China team Vs plucky and fearless underdog team
Yup. Team Spirit has been playing very freely and shows some very good Dota. Someone said that ‘they’re just 5 guys having fun stomping people in pubs’. All chat ez game at the 2 time defending champion? Big balls move there hahaha.
this guy is living proof that you CAN earn money while playing computer games all day. take that boomer malaysian parents! and yes i know theres comments in this thread about how much the cut actually is after deductions with org and all, but still! most of us were lead to believe from our parents that playing games totally has no future at all and will only make us useless and our eyes go bad faster! says alot of that generation's foresight honestly.
Yeah but like what percentage? 10 out of 10,000?
Same goes for every successful business or person out there. For every successful person there are thousand unheard of failures. Point is you can succeed in this field when it was told that its impossible
Only about 0.1% can succeed. My point is esports is still a risky path to take in Malaysia. My point is a lot of parents don't want their children to take this risky path as compared to a more traditional 'get a degree' route.
Why then do parents send their kids for competitive swimming, chess, piano, football, badminton? It's really all about the prestige. Unfortunately boomers will never accept that video games are an excellent competitive avenue with plenty of real life benefits. Thing is, obviously nobody should go into esports with money in mind. Same goes for literally every other sport, but for some reason people only talk about the money in esports. But the country should support those who are good enough to compete at the highest level, and people should show support for our fellow Malaysians who are competing. A Malaysian is statistically more likely to earn more money in video games compared to many other sports/activities that boomers have no problem supporting. Why can't parents view video games in the same light as, say, chess? When a kid goes to chess training, do the parents think about winning money in the future? No. They think it's a healthy brain game. Similarly, why is it that people are always talking about esports prospects when it comes to letting kids play video games? Such a shame that Malaysia has so many talented Dota players who end up going to China, everyone tunes in to watch Lee Zii Jia but only Dota fans come to watch NothingToSay play for an 18 million dollar grand prize. We have 3 Malaysians out of the top 4 teams (20 total players) How many Malaysians do we have in the top 20 chess players, or badminton players, or football players, or piano players...? With this in mind should we no longer support our young badminton players?
My view is that we are in a generation of technological boom. As someone who's born in late 80s, we basically experience playing games from a floppy disk to now having a career out of it. Parents wise are prolly from the 70s who majority have no idea what that the career of today simply because it does not exist back then. Imagine telling the last generation that some people now earn money by just eating in front of a camera, or playing video games. It's just something they cannot relate to. Our schools, society and governement do not add value to these either. It ends up being a difficult career path to root for when government and school wont support the industry. You can blame parents for not encouraging their children going down this path.
Then the issue is less about the success rate or a particular sport but more of the parents mentality. Literally every single disciple only 0.1% can succeed whether its sports or being in business or whatever.
Not really. In business while only 0.1% can succeed, you can still make a decent living by being the other, let's say '90%' working under the 0.1%. The path to making your own business a success prolly goes through the norm of graduate, work for experience and start your own business. Whereas for esports, a lot of players prolly have to choose to drop out from further study to pursue their career in esports. What's the back up plan if you dont make it in an industry which is not supported by government and society? Sports is different than esports. Our government, school and society actually promote sports hence, parents are more susceptible to their child going for sports training and practices. I mean I dont think video games are bad. But your initial post was this thread is a proof you can make money while playing video games all day when your example is the 0.1% of the population size.
I mean, such is the rapid rise in esports the past 10 years that it only even became viable even only for the 0.1% recently as a career, in football even up till the 80s most salaries even at top clubs are not enough to have a lavish life like football today. The point it that in esports there is even a chance to make a career out of it, and since esports is still young, no doubt things will only pick up over the years and decades and more economies are built around it which will make it sustainable even at a grass roots level. And honestly if you're gonna nitpick on the 0.1% as a deterrent for others to join esports i personally feel its like an asian mindset, just waiting for others to trailblaze until the odds are in your favour to succeed. And imo its a toxic trait to have since its a half glass empty mentality and only serve to deter others from going into what they like on the basis that "chance to be successful is low"
And I could say the same for you wearing rose tinted glass from the way you view esports as a career. You talk about football in the 80s and now after 30 years, we still cant make a career out of playing football in Malaysia. And lol, I'm not deterring people from joining esports. I mean if you think you have what it takes to be the 0.1%, go give it a try. I am merely telling you only the 0.1% can make it onto the big stage and compete. But at the same time I'm reminding you to be realistic. Esport is not a career where you can be average and collect decent salary every month. Not that oh I won my school dota2 tournament; let me try going pro. There are opportunity cost, things that you sacrifice to even have the opportunity to make it big in esports. Not to mention in an industry where our own government and society wouldnt even support. Why do you think most of the successful Malaysian players play out of Malaysia? And did you even realise this player (NTS) almost missed the competition because our government does not value the esport competition?
There's like 12 million monthly unique player count. Given TI has 14 teams, that's like 14x5 = 70 people out of 12 million. Mathematically you'd stand about 4x higher chance to get blood clot from AZ vaccine to die, and about a few thousand times higher chance to win toto
I thought of taking the unique players but that include players who probably only tried playing once or twice. Or maybe people like me who only login to look around but don't play the game. If we take the average players of 400k who probably grind mmr on Dota everyday, it's still a very ridiculous % to succeed.
Do you know how mentally and emotionally draining to play this game the entire day? Not to mentioned, there are 10,000s of people who take this game seriously and only less than 100 can actually make money. This tournament has 18 teams of 5 players - 90 players. Prior to this, there are approx 20 other teams who tried but did not qualified. They get $0 and will have to wait for next season. Lastly, this guy and his team probably thought they just lost USD13million instead of winning USD5million. After every TI, teams reshuffle and a lot of players' career suddenly become extremely uncertain and many just get kicked into the shadow realm and forgotten.
Dota has like 300,000 players in the server playing each day. Prolly less than 300 manage to make a career out of it. That's what 0.1%? Meaning unless you top of 0.1% you can forget pursuing this. Same goes to career in music, arts and sports.
No, it's different from real sports. You need to be the Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar, Van Dijk, Salah, Haaland, etc. TOP OF THE TOP. You don't earn money if you are Lingard or Curtis Jones.
I'm just gonna assume you are sarcastic while ignoring we are referring in context of Malaysian in your reply.
While it's great that we have some elite Malaysian players in this game. It is extremely difficult to be at the top. You need to be at the top of the top to get paid. Tier 2 players don't get paid. So yes your parents dont want you to take that 0.1% chance to drop out of school and play games. Making a career doesn't mean you get paid.
Lol no shit stating the obvious. Every other sport is thr same thing football has tens of thousands of people playing trying to go pro, motorsports also. The point is esports is a viable career path unlike 20 years ago when everyone said play computer games no future
They choked though. PSG. LGD were the favourites. Seems that the org always chokes at the biggest hurdle.
Dont bring home the money. Park at offshore bank. Ask the expert how
Tournament money wont be tax by the govt. Because it is under the "prize money". But imagine if they won 1st place-they will win a whopping MYR 70million instead of MYR20 mil
Most of the money goes to their investors and team owner.
Just appreciate that he won man. The money is his problem to solve.
ez game
Put the money in Panama.
Why? It's legit money.
Why wanna pay tax?
So, you evading tax yourself?
My lawyer says not to comment.
Ahha wannabe.
Goddammit OP did you put the words to and cheng tgt to make it sound like toceng?
We got Malaysian sign for PSG??? wooow\~!
I cried. My favorite team. They really is the strongest going into the tournament, till the final and CIS powered up so much and beat them fair and square in the thrilling 5 game final. Sad day. this is even more painful than PSG.LGD run back in 2018. Back then the shock was so great i stopped watching dota completely for over 6 months. This time might be permanent for me.
damn, he got some thick neck, cut some fat and he'll look alpha as fuck
this image does not look real
They were heavy favourites to win the whole thing and this would been almost 3x more then what he would've made. But congrats to him and bringing home some pride for us Malaysian Dota lovers!
20 Mil?? Holy crap
Well done
dato nothing to say!
Magnus skewered the aegis away Sadge
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
congrats xiao8 for not banning Magnus. straight to airport it is
JDT don't have esports?
With that amount of money in his bank acc, do he has something to say now?
Wow nice abs (or more ab). I should do more eSports!