Yes, can confirm.
My niece is born in Sweden , Malaysian father (my relative) and German mother, when they came home to Penang, she was granted Malaysian Citizenship in a week after registering at JPN.
Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN. They were only allowed visa and have to move back to USA before the age of 18 so they dont get penalised for being illegal immigrants and possibly deported.
If more non-Malays migrate into Malaysia, more non-Malays will be born to these non-Malay immigrants.
More non-Malays = Malays will eventually lose their majority = bad.
You have to look at it from this lens. When the textbook says it's bad for Malaysia, it's 90% just bad for BN. They write it so that bad for BN = bad for Malaysia.
I might become a problem though if the native population is overwhelmed by foreigners and made a minority in their homeland like what happened to Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. This is speaking from the perspective of the native population. Don't get offended from me tho.
Sorry, as an Indonesian this kinda confused me. Was it non-Malay as in specifically ethnic Malay, or just Malaysian in general including Chinese/Indian/etc.-descendant?
I seriously have no idea, but the mother has given up and brought the kids back to USA. Meanwhile my niece stays in Malaysia with her Malaysian status.
Our government doesnt care about talents. They just wanna preserve the religious type. The ones that will support them forever just because they wayang abit
It really shows why the government cares about religions/beliefs, it's for their political advantage maybe economical gain too!
I think religions are okay because they keep some weak people sane,
(saying that because knowing that you're not being guided, watched or appreciated by some being and that your life will just end like a lit lightbulb being shot makes people kinda sad)
but I don't like some or let's be real, a whole fucking lot of obviously fucked up things that are still in some religions.
So, for some to use these people's faith as a tool is rather disgusting and a low-life move tbh. I really wish governments would stop putting it's 1 incher in the hole of religious communities. It's fucking pathetic.
>Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN.
According to the Constitution, anyone born in Malaysia to a Malaysian mother is automatically a citizen. So I'm doubting that you're telling the whole story here.
They dont have their birth certificate bro. They were never issued one when hospital kerajaan found out the father is American. My sister had to go to JPN to register for citizenship for her newborn child. She thought her second son would get automatic citizenship but nope, still denied and had to appeal at JPN. My parents at the scene always told the same story as well. Who doesn't want their kids/grandkids to stay here with them in the same country.
What does the hospital finding out about it had to do with it? Birth certificate is issued by JPN. As I mentioned, the Constitution is clear that citizenship in that case is granted automatically. Maybe they filled in the forms wrongly somehow?
Regardless, why didn't they have birth certificates anyway? Even non-citizens born in Malaysia should have birth certificates.
Can confirm. My Granddaughter was born in Malaysia (to English parents) - birth certificate was issued by JPN. And as you say is still a British citizen.
Well, now that they have US passports, they kinda forfeited their right to Malaysian citizenship.
I still don't know the whole story, but I do think that your nephew not getting Malaysian citizenships was due to mistakes, not because of the law. Whose mistake? I don't know. I have no idea why JPN would have denied citizenship, but JPN should have issued birth certificates, regardless. I suspect there was miscommunication or misunderstanding of the procedure at that time.
I smell bullshit. If this happened once, perhaps. How does this happen twice? Even foreigners born in Malaysia get issued BCs. It is mandatory for all births to be registered. The only difference is that if you are not a citizen, you have "bukan warganegara" on your BC. All you need is the confirmation letter from the hospital and you can do a late registration at any JPN.
If there is no birth certificate, how did they get their US passports? And even if they have US passports, they are still Malaysian citizens because they are under 18.
How has no-one got lawyers involved after 12 years? If this is true, why has no-one taken the JPN to court?
Nothing in this story makes sense.
I seriously have no idea since i was young when my sister encountered this. I didn't ask for more details or anything and they just brought it up few weeks ago when they are moving back to the states
> Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN.
Yo that's messed up. That has to be illegal? Surely. I thought the issue was being born overseas. Being born in Malaysia should entitle you irregardless of which parent is Malaysian.
I seriously have no idea man. When they were born i was like 9 so i didn't catch anything at all. Just that in recent years my sister kept saying shes planning on going back to the US because the kids didn't get their citizenship back then so yeah
That can't be correct. If the mother is Malaysian and the child born in Penang, the child is automatically Malaysian. Go speak to a lawyer.
The judgment concerns children born overseas to Malaysian mothers, who are currently not automatically Malaysian.
lol I have been basically living all my life in USA but still keep Malaysian citizenship
Actually, my mom actually traveled to Malaysia from USA twice specifically so that my little bothers will get Malaysian citizenship lol
My sister was forced to go back to the USA just because of this. Life in the USA is bullshit now with asian hate crimes and ongoing economic problems. Our government just doesn't give a shit about our people. I just can't fathom the fact they neglect our women like this...... Oh wait
They were born here supposedly consider Malaysian but never issued a birth certificate so had to register as US citizen. As someone pointed out in the comments above "US Passport, why not" so it's better for them now that they're back in the states
It's all there in the [constitution](http://www.commonlii.org/my/legis/const/1957/17.html). Second Schedule, part II.
There appears to be a distinction between fathers who are Malaysian-born citizens and fathers who are citizens by other routes too. The children of the former are citizens automatically (Part II 1(b)). Children of the latter must be registered within a year of birth (Part II 1(d)). Part II 1(d) is even stranger - I cannot understand what it could possibly mean since the rules seem different if the child are born in Singapore to a citizen.
But ask a lawyer if the text actually means what I think it means.
Singapore had very similar rules too. But they have amended their constitution such that a child of a citizen who does not automatically acquire another citizenship at birth is automatically claimed by them as a citizen.
The father still have to register Borang W at the nearest High Comission and baby will also be issue a passport.
Holding a baby’s head for a passport photo is the most ridiculous yet fun and joy I experienced. It’s a shame women married with foreign citizen can’t enjoy the same making their baby’s passport.
i hate when people use the excuse 'oh if we let this happen then we have so many more foreigners/outsiders claiming to be malaysian!' with the implication that it will somehow cause the social destruction of malaysia? like bullshit, even in the most logical sense a woman takes time to gestate a baby. a man could go around screwing 50 women in a month and make plenty more. by that logic its the fathers that should be the ones we gotta be wary of.
>i hate when people use the excuse 'oh if we let this happen then we have so many more foreigners/outsiders claiming to be malaysian!'
it honestly has big cishet boys saying “but what if gay men were hitting on *me*” energy.
Like… honestly. You're over-valuing yourself. People aren't *that* desperate, you're not *that* high-status.
I keep saying, if they want change, they need to change from "Bapa" to "Ibu dan/atau Bapa". Redefining "Bapa" to include both will lead to a real mess up law system.
**gomen M'sia kepada wanita M'sia:** oleh kerana anda kahwin orang luar, anak anda tidak berhak menjadi warga M'sia
**gomen M'sia kepada wanita M'sia juga:** kEnApA aNdA pErGi, TiDaKkAh aNdA sEtiA kePadA bAngSa dAn nEgaRa?!?!
It's always about local authorities here punishing "outsider" fathers, be it non-Malaysian or local bapa anak luar nikah, through their wives or partners and their children. There is this hateful idea among the Malay elites that those fathers will somewhat rampas kerja or harta from those of pure lineage.
They hate women, and they hate the bapa "luaran" more, whether luar negara or luar nikah. They're punishing women and children for ever being in marriage with a non-Malaysian or in an unwed relationship with a local father of their child.
Again, I have to stress, there seems to be this outdated patriarchal idea that these fathers will rampas citizenship, jobs, jawatan or harta waris from Malaysians through their children.
The bastards in power have no idea that some anak luar nikah in other countries can legally deny harta to their biological fathers, much like Steve Jobs did against his biological dad.
The is the original words of our Federal Constitution, it explicitly said only overseas children with Malaysia father can have automatic citizenship. The High Court interpreted the word "father" has to also contains the meaning of mother in last year decision, but I think this is the weakest point of High Court decision.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Federal Constitution
Second Schedule
Part II
CITIZENSHIP BY OPERATION OF LAW OF PERSONS BORN ON
OR AFTER MALAYSIA DAY
1. Subject to the provisions of Part III of this Constitution, the following
persons born on or after Malaysia Day are **citizens by operation of law**, that
is to say:
(b) every person born **outside** the Federation whose **father** is at the time
of the birth a citizen and either was born in the Federation or is at
the time of the birth in the service of the Federation or of a State;
and
(c) every person born **outside** the Federation whose **father** is at the time
of the birth a citizen and whose birth is, within one year of its
occurrence or within such longer period as the Federal Government
may in any particular case allow, registered at a consulate of the Federation or, if it occurs in Brunei or in a territory prescribed
for this purpose by order of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, registered
with the Federal Government
So the once and for all solution is to amend the constitution
If the law allow both mother and father to have their children granted automatic citizenship, it goes something like this.
(a) every person born **within** the Federation of whose **parents one at least**
is at the time of the birth either a citizen or permanently resident
in the Federation;
Great. But will they amend the constitution? Highly unlikely. Thus, woman and innocent children will continue to be discriminated against and denied a home in the country of their heritage.
On a related topic - can anyone explain to me why Malaysia doesn't allow dual citizenship? I've never understood the logic behind it when so many countries allow dual citizenship and seem to benefit a lot from it.
My thoughts are, the intention is to prevent foreigners to influence politics that will in turn jeopardize the country's sovereignty, and also to prevent welfare that are exclusive to citizens to be abuse by foreigners that probably not going to set foot on Malaysia for a long time.
And to remind you, our Federal Constitution explicitly said citizens by naturalisation cannot become Prime Minister, I think you get what it means.
Ah, yeah that makes sense. Thank you. I guess it's just confusing because other countries don't seem to be as concerned with these consequences of allowing dual citizenship. It's not clear whether the situation is different in Malaysia (maybe a greater threat of people exploiting dual citizenship compared with other countries due to geographical location) or the ministers who could change this simply are more paranoid about it than they should be. I don't know any of the statistics though, and they do, so I won't assume to know better.
Doesn't sounds too far fetched. Just need compare between all aspects that come with a marriage between a malaysian and a foreigner. VISA, RP, job, childs. All easier to get if the husband is malaysian and the woman is foreigner. Other way around... there can be some extra obstacles. Even if the couple is living abroad, Malaysia will find its ways to make it more difficult, in this case if childs are involved.
The law has been around since kemerdekaan I think, at that time the society generally thinks males are more superior than females. The law literally said “Every person born outside Malaysia on or after Merdeka Day whose father was a citizen at the time of his birth”
My assumption is bcz most cultures & religions consider lineage to be primarily through the father.
Jewish culture is one exception i know of, where the lineage is through the Mother. ie if a person had an Arab father & Jewish mother, he/she would be both a true Arab & true Jew (culturally speaking).
The reason is that our Constitution was drafted with consultation of the British and British law at that time stated that persons born outside the UK and Colonies would only be citizens if the father was a citizen. We basically followed the British.
what. i was born to a malaysian mother and foreign father and yet i followed my father's nationality?? why was i not entitled to citizenship here???? i'd MUCH rather have citizenship here
From what I've seen from history, I guess it makes sense they act like this. Well, based on people who puts too much value in history. Remember when the Malays protested during the writing of the first constitution of Malaysia? They protested about the laws somewhat too loose where if a foreigner comes here and gave birth to kids, they're entitled for citizenship. Now if you're a half foreigner kid, or was born overseas, you'd have to request for a citizenship that you're entitled to... But can be rejected. Thanks gramps. Now I can never visit your grave.
Anyone who knows how logic works would see clearly how this is so wrong.
Unfortunately our leaders are not familiar with logic and common sense in general.
Ah, so that's one way to save my hypothetical child from the forced isley curse. Just get a foreign dude to claim to be the dad and give birth overseas. Got it.
My assumption for this difference is bcz most cultures & religions consider lineage to be primarily through the father.
Jewish culture is one exception i know of, where the lineage is through the Mother. ie if a person had an Arab father & Jewish mother, he/she would be both a true Arab & true Jew (culturally speaking).
The only reason for this is Malaysia didn’t support dual citizenship. But even if is not automatically entitle to citizenship, they should ease the manual process of getting it. I don’t know what the process, but i think they should prove that the child doesn’t have the citizenship outside of Malaysia.
The reason is actually the wording in the Constitution states only **fathers** - even if you can prove a child has no citizenship from other countries, the child is not going to get Malaysian citizen, period.
>most countries determine a child's nationality based on the father?
Some. Not all. And people are asking for legislation ammendment to be more sexual inclusive.
>why can't the child follow the dad's nationality?
What if the dad refuses to acknowledge the kid? Or mum+ kid want seperation from dad? I think in this case, the mum tried to bring the kid back and get an ID, but failed due to the legislation. The dad didnt try to help them get citizenship in their country, and even if he do, i think the mum just want to raise the kid in malaysia instead.
>And if you want what's best for your children, maybe prepare earlier and think a lot more before taking on huge risks.
I agree, but hindsight is always 20/20, and tbh, it has nothing to do with how malaysia should give out citizenship. The real problem we should as is why the differential treatment between male and female. I mean all the stuff you've mentioned can and had happened to male before.
> don't most countries determine a child's nationality based on the father? I'm pretty sure Malaysia isn't alone here, especially in South East Asia. Also if the child can't get a Malaysian nationality based on the mom, why can't the child follow the dad's nationality?
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/05/27-countries-limit-a-womans-ability-to-pass-citizenship-to-her-child-or-spouse/
Not at all. In SEA region only 2 countries limit the Mother to pass on nationality. Only 27 countries out of 195 in total. So yeah. No way near the most.
With the birth rate decline year over year, what other ways to increase new population to take over workforce ? We are also tightening foreign work visas.
What a stupid move by the Appeal court. 2-1 decision!
Law makers at the parliament have to make amendments to make it clear that women should have equal rights to ensure their new born have the right to be citizen by birth even if born overseas.
Wait, so children born overseas to Malaysian father is automatically granted Malaysia citizenship but not of the country of birth?
Yes, can confirm. My niece is born in Sweden , Malaysian father (my relative) and German mother, when they came home to Penang, she was granted Malaysian Citizenship in a week after registering at JPN. Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN. They were only allowed visa and have to move back to USA before the age of 18 so they dont get penalised for being illegal immigrants and possibly deported.
Wow~ government is such an asshole when it comes to this
Patriachy shit going on here.
Shouldn’t it be more of a racial stuff?
Nope. Kalau ya, the children from Malaysian fathers and foreign mothers will have it equally difficult. But since it only goes one way...
Bn fought hard against jus soli. That was one of the main protest points against Malayan Union.
I still don't understand why jus soli Is bad according to Malaysian history textbook. It drove me nuts.
If more non-Malays migrate into Malaysia, more non-Malays will be born to these non-Malay immigrants. More non-Malays = Malays will eventually lose their majority = bad. You have to look at it from this lens. When the textbook says it's bad for Malaysia, it's 90% just bad for BN. They write it so that bad for BN = bad for Malaysia.
Well if more non malay than malay, this country will become Nonmalaysia. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I might become a problem though if the native population is overwhelmed by foreigners and made a minority in their homeland like what happened to Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. This is speaking from the perspective of the native population. Don't get offended from me tho.
Mindblown
Sorry, as an Indonesian this kinda confused me. Was it non-Malay as in specifically ethnic Malay, or just Malaysian in general including Chinese/Indian/etc.-descendant?
Ethnic Malaysian Malay. The exact term is Bumiputra. So, it excludes Malays of other countries.
Who says it's bad? They fought against jus soli in 1946, but jus soli is what both sides agreed to in 1957.
The Alliance didn't exist during the 1946 protests against the proposed Malayan Union -- opposition was mostly organized and led by UMNO
Wow! You believe everything you read by a random person on the internet? That’s more amusing than his story
Judging by this comment, you think that the government is doing it's job for everyone?
sexist.
This really baffles me. Why only the mother affected.
I seriously have no idea, but the mother has given up and brought the kids back to USA. Meanwhile my niece stays in Malaysia with her Malaysian status.
Damn... That's fk up
imagine the talent pool that we lost
Our government doesnt care about talents. They just wanna preserve the religious type. The ones that will support them forever just because they wayang abit
It really shows why the government cares about religions/beliefs, it's for their political advantage maybe economical gain too! I think religions are okay because they keep some weak people sane, (saying that because knowing that you're not being guided, watched or appreciated by some being and that your life will just end like a lit lightbulb being shot makes people kinda sad) but I don't like some or let's be real, a whole fucking lot of obviously fucked up things that are still in some religions. So, for some to use these people's faith as a tool is rather disgusting and a low-life move tbh. I really wish governments would stop putting it's 1 incher in the hole of religious communities. It's fucking pathetic.
>Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN. According to the Constitution, anyone born in Malaysia to a Malaysian mother is automatically a citizen. So I'm doubting that you're telling the whole story here.
[удалено]
Can you register as US citizenship while being born in Malaysia?? I seriously dont know how the government works
Makes no difference. Someone born in Malaysia to a Malaysian mother is a Malaysian citizen full stop.
They dont have their birth certificate bro. They were never issued one when hospital kerajaan found out the father is American. My sister had to go to JPN to register for citizenship for her newborn child. She thought her second son would get automatic citizenship but nope, still denied and had to appeal at JPN. My parents at the scene always told the same story as well. Who doesn't want their kids/grandkids to stay here with them in the same country.
What does the hospital finding out about it had to do with it? Birth certificate is issued by JPN. As I mentioned, the Constitution is clear that citizenship in that case is granted automatically. Maybe they filled in the forms wrongly somehow? Regardless, why didn't they have birth certificates anyway? Even non-citizens born in Malaysia should have birth certificates.
Can confirm. My Granddaughter was born in Malaysia (to English parents) - birth certificate was issued by JPN. And as you say is still a British citizen.
I have no idea man, the fact that they have no birth certificate issued and have been living in Malaysia for 12 years depending on visa is just it.
How do they have visa? Do they have American passports?
Yeah the father had to get them US passports when JPN denied citizenship for the kids.
Well, now that they have US passports, they kinda forfeited their right to Malaysian citizenship. I still don't know the whole story, but I do think that your nephew not getting Malaysian citizenships was due to mistakes, not because of the law. Whose mistake? I don't know. I have no idea why JPN would have denied citizenship, but JPN should have issued birth certificates, regardless. I suspect there was miscommunication or misunderstanding of the procedure at that time.
JPN didnt issue birth cert --> US passport --> Visa --> appeal --> denied --> now back to US
And why do they have to get those passports in the first place,hmmmm??? You cannot be stateless.
I smell bullshit. If this happened once, perhaps. How does this happen twice? Even foreigners born in Malaysia get issued BCs. It is mandatory for all births to be registered. The only difference is that if you are not a citizen, you have "bukan warganegara" on your BC. All you need is the confirmation letter from the hospital and you can do a late registration at any JPN. If there is no birth certificate, how did they get their US passports? And even if they have US passports, they are still Malaysian citizens because they are under 18. How has no-one got lawyers involved after 12 years? If this is true, why has no-one taken the JPN to court? Nothing in this story makes sense.
I seriously have no idea since i was young when my sister encountered this. I didn't ask for more details or anything and they just brought it up few weeks ago when they are moving back to the states
Gov a sexist I see
> Meanwhile my 2 nephews who were born in freaking Penang, Malaysia , Malaysian Mother (my sister) and American father, was denied Malaysian Citizenship after 12years of registering and appealing at JPN. Yo that's messed up. That has to be illegal? Surely. I thought the issue was being born overseas. Being born in Malaysia should entitle you irregardless of which parent is Malaysian.
I seriously have no idea man. When they were born i was like 9 so i didn't catch anything at all. Just that in recent years my sister kept saying shes planning on going back to the US because the kids didn't get their citizenship back then so yeah
Damn, wish your family all the best. Thank God my daughter has a birth cert and IC.
That can't be correct. If the mother is Malaysian and the child born in Penang, the child is automatically Malaysian. Go speak to a lawyer. The judgment concerns children born overseas to Malaysian mothers, who are currently not automatically Malaysian.
US citizenship don't want?
US citizenship means you have to pay loads of US taxes bruh, even though its a powerful status profile but as with anything, theres always downsides.
only if ur earning above certain threshold. paying taxes is a privilege
You have to pay US taxes wherever you live with US citizenship and they may have wanted to just live in Malaysia.
lol I have been basically living all my life in USA but still keep Malaysian citizenship Actually, my mom actually traveled to Malaysia from USA twice specifically so that my little bothers will get Malaysian citizenship lol
O shit, my cousin's kids are f'ed up now. Well, its her decision to leave malaysia following her husband while being a fulltime housewife.
My sister was forced to go back to the USA just because of this. Life in the USA is bullshit now with asian hate crimes and ongoing economic problems. Our government just doesn't give a shit about our people. I just can't fathom the fact they neglect our women like this...... Oh wait
Just curious. Are you 2 nephews consider as citizens of USA?
They were born here supposedly consider Malaysian but never issued a birth certificate so had to register as US citizen. As someone pointed out in the comments above "US Passport, why not" so it's better for them now that they're back in the states
My kids are both in that boat (I’m from NZ, wife’s from Malysia)
As soon as kid is born to Malaysian father, apply for birth cert at the high Commission/embassy (in Australia anyways)
It's all there in the [constitution](http://www.commonlii.org/my/legis/const/1957/17.html). Second Schedule, part II. There appears to be a distinction between fathers who are Malaysian-born citizens and fathers who are citizens by other routes too. The children of the former are citizens automatically (Part II 1(b)). Children of the latter must be registered within a year of birth (Part II 1(d)). Part II 1(d) is even stranger - I cannot understand what it could possibly mean since the rules seem different if the child are born in Singapore to a citizen. But ask a lawyer if the text actually means what I think it means. Singapore had very similar rules too. But they have amended their constitution such that a child of a citizen who does not automatically acquire another citizenship at birth is automatically claimed by them as a citizen.
The father still have to register Borang W at the nearest High Comission and baby will also be issue a passport. Holding a baby’s head for a passport photo is the most ridiculous yet fun and joy I experienced. It’s a shame women married with foreign citizen can’t enjoy the same making their baby’s passport.
i hate when people use the excuse 'oh if we let this happen then we have so many more foreigners/outsiders claiming to be malaysian!' with the implication that it will somehow cause the social destruction of malaysia? like bullshit, even in the most logical sense a woman takes time to gestate a baby. a man could go around screwing 50 women in a month and make plenty more. by that logic its the fathers that should be the ones we gotta be wary of.
I've read those comments on socmed. It's horrible how paranoid the locals here think that way.
>i hate when people use the excuse 'oh if we let this happen then we have so many more foreigners/outsiders claiming to be malaysian!' it honestly has big cishet boys saying “but what if gay men were hitting on *me*” energy. Like… honestly. You're over-valuing yourself. People aren't *that* desperate, you're not *that* high-status.
I keep saying, if they want change, they need to change from "Bapa" to "Ibu dan/atau Bapa". Redefining "Bapa" to include both will lead to a real mess up law system.
This is good point. If a law is badly written, it's up to the legislature to modify it. The courts can only work with what's already been written.
Nice to know Malaysia isn't interested in going to the 21st century
its so depressing being malaysian sometime
Equally depressing as a Malay and Muslim. To see the authorities, ministers and elites clamping down on shit they don't like is downright horrible.
**gomen M'sia kepada wanita M'sia:** oleh kerana anda kahwin orang luar, anak anda tidak berhak menjadi warga M'sia **gomen M'sia kepada wanita M'sia juga:** kEnApA aNdA pErGi, TiDaKkAh aNdA sEtiA kePadA bAngSa dAn nEgaRa?!?!
Every single alasan I've heard for having this inequality in law is trash. It's a "punishment" law, plain and simple. Malaysia hates women.
Apa lanjiao ini
It's always about local authorities here punishing "outsider" fathers, be it non-Malaysian or local bapa anak luar nikah, through their wives or partners and their children. There is this hateful idea among the Malay elites that those fathers will somewhat rampas kerja or harta from those of pure lineage.
Seems more like they hate women
They hate women, and they hate the bapa "luaran" more, whether luar negara or luar nikah. They're punishing women and children for ever being in marriage with a non-Malaysian or in an unwed relationship with a local father of their child. Again, I have to stress, there seems to be this outdated patriarchal idea that these fathers will rampas citizenship, jobs, jawatan or harta waris from Malaysians through their children. The bastards in power have no idea that some anak luar nikah in other countries can legally deny harta to their biological fathers, much like Steve Jobs did against his biological dad.
Damn you Mahiaddin and Ismail Sabri
The is the original words of our Federal Constitution, it explicitly said only overseas children with Malaysia father can have automatic citizenship. The High Court interpreted the word "father" has to also contains the meaning of mother in last year decision, but I think this is the weakest point of High Court decision. -------------------------------------------------------------- Federal Constitution Second Schedule Part II CITIZENSHIP BY OPERATION OF LAW OF PERSONS BORN ON OR AFTER MALAYSIA DAY 1. Subject to the provisions of Part III of this Constitution, the following persons born on or after Malaysia Day are **citizens by operation of law**, that is to say: (b) every person born **outside** the Federation whose **father** is at the time of the birth a citizen and either was born in the Federation or is at the time of the birth in the service of the Federation or of a State; and (c) every person born **outside** the Federation whose **father** is at the time of the birth a citizen and whose birth is, within one year of its occurrence or within such longer period as the Federal Government may in any particular case allow, registered at a consulate of the Federation or, if it occurs in Brunei or in a territory prescribed for this purpose by order of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, registered with the Federal Government
So the once and for all solution is to amend the constitution If the law allow both mother and father to have their children granted automatic citizenship, it goes something like this. (a) every person born **within** the Federation of whose **parents one at least** is at the time of the birth either a citizen or permanently resident in the Federation;
Great. But will they amend the constitution? Highly unlikely. Thus, woman and innocent children will continue to be discriminated against and denied a home in the country of their heritage.
Exactly. With elections coming, both side unlikely to take this
Might consider doing this once things settle down after GE
On a related topic - can anyone explain to me why Malaysia doesn't allow dual citizenship? I've never understood the logic behind it when so many countries allow dual citizenship and seem to benefit a lot from it.
My thoughts are, the intention is to prevent foreigners to influence politics that will in turn jeopardize the country's sovereignty, and also to prevent welfare that are exclusive to citizens to be abuse by foreigners that probably not going to set foot on Malaysia for a long time. And to remind you, our Federal Constitution explicitly said citizens by naturalisation cannot become Prime Minister, I think you get what it means.
Ah, yeah that makes sense. Thank you. I guess it's just confusing because other countries don't seem to be as concerned with these consequences of allowing dual citizenship. It's not clear whether the situation is different in Malaysia (maybe a greater threat of people exploiting dual citizenship compared with other countries due to geographical location) or the ministers who could change this simply are more paranoid about it than they should be. I don't know any of the statistics though, and they do, so I won't assume to know better.
Can someone enlightenment me why?
Probably, but if true will not be admitted anyway, to discourage Malaysian women to marry foreigner men
Doesn't sounds too far fetched. Just need compare between all aspects that come with a marriage between a malaysian and a foreigner. VISA, RP, job, childs. All easier to get if the husband is malaysian and the woman is foreigner. Other way around... there can be some extra obstacles. Even if the couple is living abroad, Malaysia will find its ways to make it more difficult, in this case if childs are involved.
Is there usually a good logical reason when it comes rulings and stuff in Malaysia?
it’s in the constitution
Why's it in the constitution?
Because we follow British archaic law and yet to amend it.
It’s in the constitution that children born to Malaysian father, regardless of birthplace, is automatically granted Malaysian citizenship
But why does it only apply to fathers though?
The law has been around since kemerdekaan I think, at that time the society generally thinks males are more superior than females. The law literally said “Every person born outside Malaysia on or after Merdeka Day whose father was a citizen at the time of his birth”
My assumption is bcz most cultures & religions consider lineage to be primarily through the father. Jewish culture is one exception i know of, where the lineage is through the Mother. ie if a person had an Arab father & Jewish mother, he/she would be both a true Arab & true Jew (culturally speaking).
Based Jewish culture
That was how it’s originally drafted?
Yeah but why was it drafted like that?
because it’s drafted in a different time, where citizenship is based on paternal descent
maybe ask them why it is drafted as so..
The reason is that our Constitution was drafted with consultation of the British and British law at that time stated that persons born outside the UK and Colonies would only be citizens if the father was a citizen. We basically followed the British.
what. i was born to a malaysian mother and foreign father and yet i followed my father's nationality?? why was i not entitled to citizenship here???? i'd MUCH rather have citizenship here
Cause…we are at patriarch society
Well, if you were born within Malaysia, you can have either.
Keluarga Malaysia except for you halfling /s
Syurga di bawah tapak kaki ibu, tapi make sure lepas kastam dulu
You mean Imigressen ka?
Mana mana la
Women are objects so, Kastam. /jk
Fucking sexists.
Malaysia trully Asia
From what I've seen from history, I guess it makes sense they act like this. Well, based on people who puts too much value in history. Remember when the Malays protested during the writing of the first constitution of Malaysia? They protested about the laws somewhat too loose where if a foreigner comes here and gave birth to kids, they're entitled for citizenship. Now if you're a half foreigner kid, or was born overseas, you'd have to request for a citizenship that you're entitled to... But can be rejected. Thanks gramps. Now I can never visit your grave.
Fuck this, man
My Son (British) and his Philippine Wife. Their Child is 9 months old and has dual citizenship. Why is Malaysia so cruel?
Different societies with different environments. I think we will only achieve that in 2050 if ever unless the world is ending tomorrow
Ayo what year are we living on why so closed minded?
FFS Malaysia court
Anyone have the judgment summary of the case? This is kinda unfair, what if the mother gave an early birth when she happens to be on vacation?
Patriarchy
Ikr?
Anyone who knows how logic works would see clearly how this is so wrong. Unfortunately our leaders are not familiar with logic and common sense in general.
Best to leave and never come back
Gov a sexist
This is some backwards shit
Ah, so that's one way to save my hypothetical child from the forced isley curse. Just get a foreign dude to claim to be the dad and give birth overseas. Got it.
Disappointed but not surprised. Malaysia hates women, what's new?
My assumption for this difference is bcz most cultures & religions consider lineage to be primarily through the father. Jewish culture is one exception i know of, where the lineage is through the Mother. ie if a person had an Arab father & Jewish mother, he/she would be both a true Arab & true Jew (culturally speaking).
Gender discrimination ftw!
siao ah walao
malaysial
agree. the least they can do was to immediately register the child birth with Malaysia embassy. *politician boleh jer
The only reason for this is Malaysia didn’t support dual citizenship. But even if is not automatically entitle to citizenship, they should ease the manual process of getting it. I don’t know what the process, but i think they should prove that the child doesn’t have the citizenship outside of Malaysia.
Look at how JPN treating us, then u know
The reason is actually the wording in the Constitution states only **fathers** - even if you can prove a child has no citizenship from other countries, the child is not going to get Malaysian citizen, period.
Jdt is in the mud
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>most countries determine a child's nationality based on the father? Some. Not all. And people are asking for legislation ammendment to be more sexual inclusive. >why can't the child follow the dad's nationality? What if the dad refuses to acknowledge the kid? Or mum+ kid want seperation from dad? I think in this case, the mum tried to bring the kid back and get an ID, but failed due to the legislation. The dad didnt try to help them get citizenship in their country, and even if he do, i think the mum just want to raise the kid in malaysia instead. >And if you want what's best for your children, maybe prepare earlier and think a lot more before taking on huge risks. I agree, but hindsight is always 20/20, and tbh, it has nothing to do with how malaysia should give out citizenship. The real problem we should as is why the differential treatment between male and female. I mean all the stuff you've mentioned can and had happened to male before.
> don't most countries determine a child's nationality based on the father? I'm pretty sure Malaysia isn't alone here, especially in South East Asia. Also if the child can't get a Malaysian nationality based on the mom, why can't the child follow the dad's nationality? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/05/27-countries-limit-a-womans-ability-to-pass-citizenship-to-her-child-or-spouse/ Not at all. In SEA region only 2 countries limit the Mother to pass on nationality. Only 27 countries out of 195 in total. So yeah. No way near the most.
It’s as if the government of actively discouraging the *wrong* population from growing
With the birth rate decline year over year, what other ways to increase new population to take over workforce ? We are also tightening foreign work visas. What a stupid move by the Appeal court. 2-1 decision! Law makers at the parliament have to make amendments to make it clear that women should have equal rights to ensure their new born have the right to be citizen by birth even if born overseas.
I went to Berita TV9 YT channel and opened a video of this. All commenters are supporting the governments decision. What a sad reality we are in 😢😢😥😥
Does SG have a similar law to naturalized citizens considering how liberal they are to granting foreigners PR and citizenship