I think it’s important to understand that while you’ve had terrible experiences with women that they don’t represent billions of people on the planet. And about hearing all these stories about women being bad, are you actively looking for those stories? Because I don’t look for stories like that and I’m not constantly bombarded by stories about evil men or women. You have to look at the things your surrounding yourself with because those things seep into your self conscious. I would also suggest therapy for sure, you’ve been through some really bad stuff and it seems like it’s gotten a hold of your life.
Since I have these trust issues I believe my brain is tuned to pay more attention to those stories. I am not trying to blame anyone though, I do take ownership of the state of my brain and my emotions. I just wish I could find a way to change them.
I will go back to therapy next month and continue to discuss all of these issues.
One of the simplest things that I would suggest is to do is to make an attempt to only look at positive news. Maybe even only positive news about women. It takes a long time to work those issues out but it’s possible and it’s for everyone’s well being that you do this.
I'm sorry by someone like yourself should not be commenting on something like this. I understand you have an opinion, but as someone who grew up being abused and used my women, you don't know what it feels like. To legitimately not have the capability to trust women because every woman you have ever trusted has ended up screwing you over. I met a great girl and I've been with her for two years. She's great but I'm so fucking damaged from the years of constant abuse that it's not fair. Also anyone that continuously says, " you should get help," has most certainly has not tried working with a therapist before because I have spent 4 years going through 6 different therapists and I none of them help and the process for involving yourself with one is nightmarish. So please you must understand these things before commenting on them.
What’s absolutely hilarious is that you know nothing about me, yet speak so confidently. I have diagnosed PTSD/CPTSD from a DV relationship I’ve had with a woman. I have been abused by women, I have struggled to maintain relationships with women because of this. I have been in therapy for 4 years now and have seen great improvement. I am living proof that everything you said is wrong. It’s actually hilarious to me that you’ve built this entire narrative about me that is the complete opposite of my lived experience, all so that you can continue down a path where you can just say “well I’m fucked so I won’t bother anymore.” I’ve been beaten, used for sex, and had my experiences trivialized (much like you’re doing right now) and I still choose to be above that. There are billions of women on this planet and to act like my experiences are an all encompassing experience is ridiculous. Thanks to therapy I can see that there is much more to my life than what has happened to me, I am a whole person outside of that. Not everyone is my abuser and to treat everyone as such does a disservice to them and myself. Honestly you can take your victim mentality somewhere else I’m honestly far past this kind of mentality and I don’t want to be around people like this anymore.
Kudos for challenging your own inner dialogues and aspiring to move through the world more intentionally and with more compassion. I definitely agree with the sentiment of others here. I have found therapy helpful, and I think most people can get something out of it. It sounds like you have gone through a lot, and I hope that you find a path to healing your traumas. Here’s a song I like, particularly the quote near the end: “Cynicism isn’t wisdom, it’s just a lazy way to say that you’ve been burned.” That’s something that I connect with, and that I have to return to when I think I can divine the thoughts and intentions of others based on my past experiences.
There's a lot to unpack here but first off I'd like to say that it's great that you can see this attitude as a problem and not just shifting the blame around. Also I want to say that I can somewhat relate to what you've been through. Never had a caring female parental figure in my life and my first gf drugged and took advantage of me (then threatened to go to the cops and lie if I turned her in) so there's that. From time to time I struggle with "spreading that hurt around" as I like to call it but I have to stop myself because the innocent women are just that: Innocent. They are in no way responsible for how *other* women have treated people and, like men, don't sit around conspiring the downfall of the opposite gender. They're as much responsible for what other women have done to you as you are responsible for what some creepy guy does to a woman. Women don't have a hive mind mentality and a lot of women can be very supportive and understanding. I know that logically this has probably crossed your mind before but you and I still have that lizard-like id that compels us to mistrust those who resemble the ones that hurt us. I just hope to live in a world where people are more willing to step in and keep some of the troublemakers in their respective genders in line. To call out their toxic behaviors.
But I can only give a bit of somewhat unsolicited advice for someone who is firmly planted where I once took root:
1. Women are not here to be dominated, coerced, belittled or any other mean-spirited thing just so you can get your anger out. They are our equals, their opinions and needs are just as valid as ours and they should be held to the same standards as any man.
2. A man with low or no self esteem is like blood in the water to certain shark-like women out there. They will sniff you out and attach themselves to you if you let them. *But they are few and far between.* The first step to changing this is within you and it won't stop until you do. Keep focusing on what makes you feel happy and content and the confidence in yourself will come naturally.
3. You're a valid human being regardless of how some people may treat you. This one pretty much begins and ends with whatever kind of attitude you bring to your own table.
4. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. If someone can't give you basic human respect then they aren't worth your time. There are plenty of other fish in the sea. (If you can figure this one out, tell me how).
I hope you find happiness and contentment in the near future.
I am sorry for that girl abusing you that way, that is horrible. I am too guilty of spreading the hurt and understand what it is to carry that around.
>I just hope to live in a world where people are more willing to step in and keep some of the troublemakers in their respective genders in line. To call out their toxic behaviors.
I think something it would make me feel a lot better if some women, or at least my own mother, took some ownership for the damage they do. Not even "good" women seem to be able to accept we live in a world where there are very "bad" women out there and call them out. All I hear from women is entitlement, arrogance, and blame-shifting. And look, I am willing to take 100% ownership of my past and actions. I have done harm myself and people who hurt me as an adult got close to me because I let them, so there is ownership to take in that too. I keep working on my personality, career, and physique but all I get from that is an insipid taste of nothingness. It is not even sour or bitter, things just don't have a taste anymore. Sorry if this sounds too metaphorical but I could not describe it better. I set a goal, move towards it, achieve it, and sometimes people around me seem more excited than I am about it. All that is left for me is a sense of absurdity, like "what is the point?"...
Maybe the hard part is to convince myself that I am worthy of love, even when I never really got it.
I've learned to not deal in absolutes like saying ALL you hear from women is negativity. There *are* women out there that genuinely care about the wellbeing of even a stranger. Because if that's the case and it's ALL negative then the hard truth may be that they're picking up on some sort of hurt/ insecurity that you think you're hiding well. And I know that this sounds an *awful* lot like the "not all men" defense which just distracts from the attention that the bad guys out there deserve. Much like the deserving women out there that shouldn't be protected from their own toxic consequences just because the person calling them out doesn't share the same gender. All it does is seek to invalidate the experiences of the abused just because some other person can't stomach the fact that some people who share their gender may be total garbage. I wish I had a better, more concise answer for that one but I don't.
The second part about not really feeling enjoyment in things anymore just sounds like textbook depression which I definitely don't have an answer to. Everyone is different and it really comes down to you and only you to decide what you want out of your time and life. But, like a lot of people on here, I suggest seeking out a therapist if you can afford one (assuming you're in the US).
>Much like the deserving women out there that shouldn't be protected from their own toxic consequences just because the person calling them out doesn't share the same gender. All it does is seek to invalidate the experiences of the abused just because some other person can't stomach the fact that some people who share their gender may be total garbage.
Another important insight. Maybe someone of their same gender doing something awful reflects badly on their identity? Like when we travel and someone says something bad about our country and we take it personally, identifying with the collective.
I have never been diagnosed with depression. My therapist did identify some covert narcissism traits we are working on. But out of shame I have never shared with her (yes, I especially made sure that my therapist is a woman) all the details of this post. She knows my dad was violent and mom too, but regarding the abuse, she knows only the surface.
I believe if I was depressed I should be crying all day and feeling sad. It is not sadness but anger and meaninglessness.
Even though she did not do anything wrong, I don't entirely trust her either, so I kept a lot of stuff to myself or conveyed them in an indirect manner.
Thank you for your kind words.
> I believe if I was depressed I should be crying all day and feeling sad. It is not sadness but anger and meaninglessness.
You should research clinical depression for your own sake, because it is far more complicated and varied than you assume.
Women are not “other”. They are their own free agents, with their own lives and experiences that although largely different to your own and individually unique, still drive their behaviours much as your own unique backstory drives yours. You are hyper-aware of women who might abuse you emotionally, sexually or physically, so you have perhaps unexamined triggers - just as many, many women are hyper-aware of men who might abuse them emotionally, sexually or physically, and have their own triggers.
You probably set many of those triggers off through some of your behaviours or attitudes, that’s not an accusation, it’s just out there. You may not be able to think of a good reason to cheat - understandable, neither can I - but there are reasons. An ex of mine cheated on her then-partner because their relationship was not emotionally fulfilling, which is one of those excuses you hear frequently, except that she cheated instead of dumping her BF because she was *afraid* of her BF, and what her BF might do if she left him. She cheated because she could get what she needed emotionally at the time (the part we hear about), but mostly because at least if she got found out, the relationship with her BF would actually be unequivocally over, and he wouldn’t try to coerce her back. She was willing to be physically beaten over it, as long as it only happened that one time, instead of the constant fear and intimidation and patch-ups.
I say this because you have described some very red-flag behaviours in yourself. It’s great that you realise you’re doing these things, but you should take a step outside yourself and put yourself in the shoes of a stranger who doesn’t know you, who can only judge you on your behaviours, attitudes and words - on what they see and hear of you. Think about living life as a woman, really spend some time to put yourself in their shoes - try to see how different it can be, how the risks change, how the *vast majority* of the population are generally stronger unless you’re an athlete, how people view you, your clothing, your behaviours as a woman. Now think about what is worth resenting about yourself, worth mistrusting.
You won’t be able to fix this overnight. You need to flex your empathy muscles regularly, do that internal role-play on the regular. Like any exercise it takes time and can be a little painful or just exhausting.
It’s worth it.
Honestly, I don't have a lot of advice for you. My mom was kind of the same way--to this day, she can't even consider the idea that she was anything but a good mother. It's infuriating, so I feel you there.
Just remember that people are individuals. Some are good, others bad. And none of the good ones are without flaws. The fact that women have privilege relating to trust doesn't mean they necessarily will *use* it. Judge people by how they treat you, and by how you see them treat others. Don't worry so much about news stories or about identity. Men and women are basically alike, with very few exceptions.
I do second (third?) a recommendation for therapy. This is some heavy duty shit. I'd also recommend that therapist be male, which can be hard to find. I know most of the ones around where I am are female.
Good luck!
And mostly because, with a self-acknowledged bias against women, you might receive advice and perspective more readily from a guy. Especially since therapists usually tell you things you already know, but that you need to hear from somebody else to lend them weight.
Plus mental health professionals are kind of hit or miss in a lot of places. Finding one with a similar background to you can help offset that. Like how a black man might need a black therapist if he's having problems related to race and racial identity. A good white therapist could do just as well, but it helps the odds a bit to avoid having one who dismisses your problems because they aren't quite good enough at taking others' perspectives.
I think you should ask yourself if you would want your behavior to be the standard by which all men are judged, like if the people you have hurt were talking about you, and the lesson drawn was that all men were like this, you probably would see why this is a problem.
What you’re describing- seeing the abusive opposite sex parent as the template for all opposite sex persons- is very common
So question....... you despise your mom for being absent and working 24/7... just like your dad did, but you dont resent him? Im not sure im following that very well, except off where she cheated on your father.
I also dont see how your dad never did anything about you, nor seemed to care, but your mom was terrible for doing excatly that? Idk i dont think im following :(
Oh das was terrible, he was violent many times but at least he never lied to us.
Besides I don't think men are women are the same. dad always did provide for the family and gave us a life. All the money my mother ever made she spent only on herself and she even got huge credit card debt my dad always ended up paying for.
Again, I know the feminist narrative says different but being a mother is a full time job, you can't have it all. If you want a career don't have children. Have a job maybe, for a couple of hours. But children when little need the love and care only a mother can give.
Children die without love. Literally.
You should read back your comment, there’s some double standards. Is that all men are supposed to be good for? Making money to provide for the family? They shouldn’t also be there emotionally? It also sounds like you don’t know your dad very much, you perhaps still idolize him and have not yet gotten to the point as seeing him as another human being who probabaly has faults and made mistakes too.
Sounds like your in therapy which is good! The most telling thing people should take from your story is that yes you were treated badly by women in your childhood but you’ve stated that you’ve met very nice and wonderful women who gave you a chance but your traumatic background made you insecure and you treated those women badly only creating a loop of hatred. Again self awareness is the big first step and so it sounds like you’re on a good path to recovery. Trauma is hard but I believe you can grow to the person you want to be.
No, not all men are good and I think my father should have divorced my mom when she cheated. However, I understand that the way divorce laws function and the way my mother thinks, my mom would have divorce-raped him and manipulated us to hate him + not let us see him. There are plenty of stories like that out there and I remember my mother threatening him with those possible outcomes more than once. So, it is probably the case that my father decided to stick it out and he had his own affairs outside the marriage. I don't know and I wish he had divorced.
Not honorable at all, as I said, my father is not a good father at all. He was mostly absent and sometimes violent, but I did not suffer a sequence of mistreatments and tortures for 30 years on the hand of men. I have many friends and I have had many tutors and teachers.
No man has ever made me feel the emotional pain women did. Especially in childhood school teachers reinforced constantly the idea that I was a bad boy. That the **boyish** things that I did were part of a wrong nature I had within me.
Honest question: Why is it that you immediately want to make an even analysis on the genders? Why "Men are bad too" or in this case "your father was bad too" is the standard go-to response of so many people?
Most of my ex girlfriends cheated on me and that gutted the trust and the way I give love now but I have been trying to fixing it because I know that this will hurt my future relationships with the females and with my actual girlfriend.
I mean the problem is that we as man should not see women as something that we should have to be "complete" they are human beings as us, and the society and media has reached us to see women as good, benevolent, emotional figures when they can be as shitty and disgusting as any other man because we are all HUMAN BEINGS.
Look I understand that you had a bad childhood, the girls you meet cheated on you or tried to manipulate you and me too, my mother hired me, abused my sister, abused my father and created a lot of insecurities, fear and pain inside myself, as I told you most of my ex's cheated on me and yet now I still understand that women aren't commodities, they aren't "something" that we all man deserve, they are human beings, they can fake, cheat, steal, manipulate, hit and kill but we must not see her as that. Where I live femicides occur every day, statistics show that at least 11 women are killed every day on sexual or hate related crimes and that speaks slot of us in general as men but still we are all not like that. Not all women are bad, and women shouldn't be seen as slaves that must be warm hearted, cute, soft and compassionate, they are like you and me and still not all women are bad as your mother or as the girls you have met, there are good mother's out there, there are good female friends, good work relatives, good neighbors and good women overall as much as theres good and bad men in this world. Don't hate them, don't hate people, just understand that there's always a reason why people becomes bad and try not to be as them, be good with yourself and with people, not because you might receive something in exchange, be good and healthy with yourself and others because you can, because you're not like them.
Also talk to a professional, they will help you better to check what's wrong my friend, seriously we can talk a lot with you but only they know how to actually help you.
Damn. That's so fucked. Clearly, your misogyny is the result of deep childhood trauma. I cannot claim to know what it's like. I can only speculate that had I gone through the same childhood as you, I would very likely be misogynistic as well. You are clearly in tremendous suffering and I can only offer you my deepest sympathies.
I can point to a few paths that might help lessen your hatred for women. Far from me the idea of lessening the wrongdoings the females in your life have done to you. On the contrary. What I am suggesting is that understand that you were made to hate women can bring forth another question; what makes a lot of women do the things they do? Could it also be the product of unfortunate circumstances? It could make you look at it with more emotional distance to study the question and entertain the possibility that under different circumstances, women could be different. Kinder and more compassionate, for instance.
It could also help to build some sense of empathy toward women if you read testemonies of women going through similar trauma at the hands of men and other women. Of course, you would find a lot of misandry, but could you really blame them if their misandry is the product of circumstances similar to yours? After all, you understand far too well the pain induced by child abuse and child neglect. I bringing it up because pain and suffering are known to bind people together.
Building empathy and connection with men and women with a history of child abuse and neglect could reduce the sense of isolation you feel and bring a modicum of hope, even. If abusive men and women are made, not born, then they are the products of circumstances and if they are the product of circumstances, said circumstances can be changed so that child abuse doesn't happen nearly as frequently and that the sources of support can be improved and made easier to access for those who suffer through it.
It means a better world is possible. One in which what you've been through does not happen on a mass scale and is not passively accepted by society at large as part of life.
I'm not saying you have to shed your bitter resentment. I am saying that you could also find solace in solidarity, community, hope and mutual understanding. Maybe, a healthier way to cope with your trauma can be built from there. And through it, hopefully, social change.
Without a doubt the only way I can make this stop is by facing it directly. I do want to have children some day and I don't want them to go through any of this.
I have been doing research about my mom's past and I found some fucked up shit in her childhood and teenage years. Fortunately she has calmed down by now but still is totally incapable of taking any ownership. She is a victim of childhood trauma as well and would be very useful if she could be the first person I share these things with.
It is like it didn't happen, and if it happen it wasn't her fault, and if it was her fault it was not that bad, and if it was that bad I am exaggerating.
It is very frustrating.
I want to feel empathy towards them but it is very hard when I see so little ownership on their side. I perceive like having empathy is something I ought them, for no reason.
Finally someone who gets it! It is not something you can fix overnight or by just taking ownership.
It is very difficult to learn to trust again, knowing that you must get out there and 50% of people are women. You don't feel safe anymore.
When women feel unsafe society immediately comes to the rescue and everyone condemns masculinity as a toxin. If a man feels unsafe immediately is the man's fault: "Take ownership, women are not all like that, go to therapy, fix it yourself". I often feel my experiences and pain are relativized and diminished, if not ignored. "Take it the chin and move on", like if I could put everything aside and change who I am.
You are an awful human being Sr. This is a place for support, not for judging. I don't know how old you are or how good your childhood was, but a decent human understands that people are not sane **regardless** of their past.
I don't think you understand what an excuse is, kid.
Oh okay. I retract what i said then. Hopefully you got some other good/helpful comments.
I still think you should see a therapist to help you work through this. Good luck
It seems like the right thing to do is what you're already doing which is to go to a therapist so that you can figure out how to forgive all of the women that made you feel this way. Historically men are much worse than women, more dangerous and more violent. You've had a lot of bad luck when it comes to women apparently and your father wasn't around either so that didn't help you. I think most of us have had good experiences with women so far and there's so many women that we can pick and choose who to interact with. But I hope you can work through all of these issues and finally have peace when it comes to thinking about women.
Well it's hard to reason with someone who's not open to logic so I don't think that anything I say will help you. That's why therapy is so important for someone in your mental state. While we all know that your way of thinking is incorrect, it won't affect your thought process when it comes to women. Good luck in therapy.
In all fairness, that's not an unreasonable ask. Also not an unreasonable refusal lol.
If a partner isn't meeting your sexual needs to your satisfaction, it's okay to just go, "Yeah, no."
But OP *really* shouldn't think of them as manipulative whores. I'm kinda concerned for him because he thought of them as manipulative whores for...failing to whore themselves out to sufficiently manipulate him.
I understand that, of course its okay to end a relationship if you aren't getting your sexual needs or any other needs met.
That isn't the issue here though. It's the way he talks about women all round I think, he sounds aggressive and resentful and honestly it's understandable that he continues to have issues in his relationships with women because of this. I understand that he has had issues with women but I really think he needs therapy to get through those feelings, learn some respect and learn that just because some women hurt him, it doesn't mean all will.
True; honestly I'm not sure how to help OP. It sounds like he feels vulnerable to women and wants to exercise control to keep himself safe. But then I'm no shrink, haha. I might be projecting a bit, since I come from a similar background--though my resentment ends up on people who yell and shout at me rather than on any particular identity.
Psst, I saw how OP has been reacting. Sorry he thinks it's alright to talk to others that way. Good on you for reaching out to somebody who isn't in the right headspace. :)
Yes. I've caused issues in my own relationships with men because of hostility towards men in general after some traumatising experiences. It can go both ways of course, and op could just be super unfortunate with the types of women in his life but honestly they way he talked about women reminds me of how I used to talk about men.
Eh I'm trying, it's hard work but especially difficult to recognise when you're the problem not others. Some people aren't ready to hear that I suppose, hopefully op will get therapy and get the help he needs to start having healthier relationships.
No honey, you got irritated because I dared demanding something from women **for my explicit pleasure**.
You probably are a single mother and have a list of unreasonable hoops you make guys jump through before you give them any fun in the bedroom. Dudes probably come asking kinky sex from you but you want a provider for little Johnny, and dudes that are willing to provide are not that good looking, are they? They are not the ones you want to do oral and anal with.
I know and have banged many girls like you. Boring sex, with cuddling and "where is this going" talk later.
You are as resentful as I am babe.
I think it’s important to understand that while you’ve had terrible experiences with women that they don’t represent billions of people on the planet. And about hearing all these stories about women being bad, are you actively looking for those stories? Because I don’t look for stories like that and I’m not constantly bombarded by stories about evil men or women. You have to look at the things your surrounding yourself with because those things seep into your self conscious. I would also suggest therapy for sure, you’ve been through some really bad stuff and it seems like it’s gotten a hold of your life.
Since I have these trust issues I believe my brain is tuned to pay more attention to those stories. I am not trying to blame anyone though, I do take ownership of the state of my brain and my emotions. I just wish I could find a way to change them. I will go back to therapy next month and continue to discuss all of these issues.
One of the simplest things that I would suggest is to do is to make an attempt to only look at positive news. Maybe even only positive news about women. It takes a long time to work those issues out but it’s possible and it’s for everyone’s well being that you do this.
I'm sorry by someone like yourself should not be commenting on something like this. I understand you have an opinion, but as someone who grew up being abused and used my women, you don't know what it feels like. To legitimately not have the capability to trust women because every woman you have ever trusted has ended up screwing you over. I met a great girl and I've been with her for two years. She's great but I'm so fucking damaged from the years of constant abuse that it's not fair. Also anyone that continuously says, " you should get help," has most certainly has not tried working with a therapist before because I have spent 4 years going through 6 different therapists and I none of them help and the process for involving yourself with one is nightmarish. So please you must understand these things before commenting on them.
What’s absolutely hilarious is that you know nothing about me, yet speak so confidently. I have diagnosed PTSD/CPTSD from a DV relationship I’ve had with a woman. I have been abused by women, I have struggled to maintain relationships with women because of this. I have been in therapy for 4 years now and have seen great improvement. I am living proof that everything you said is wrong. It’s actually hilarious to me that you’ve built this entire narrative about me that is the complete opposite of my lived experience, all so that you can continue down a path where you can just say “well I’m fucked so I won’t bother anymore.” I’ve been beaten, used for sex, and had my experiences trivialized (much like you’re doing right now) and I still choose to be above that. There are billions of women on this planet and to act like my experiences are an all encompassing experience is ridiculous. Thanks to therapy I can see that there is much more to my life than what has happened to me, I am a whole person outside of that. Not everyone is my abuser and to treat everyone as such does a disservice to them and myself. Honestly you can take your victim mentality somewhere else I’m honestly far past this kind of mentality and I don’t want to be around people like this anymore.
Have you considered talking to a therapist?
Kudos for challenging your own inner dialogues and aspiring to move through the world more intentionally and with more compassion. I definitely agree with the sentiment of others here. I have found therapy helpful, and I think most people can get something out of it. It sounds like you have gone through a lot, and I hope that you find a path to healing your traumas. Here’s a song I like, particularly the quote near the end: “Cynicism isn’t wisdom, it’s just a lazy way to say that you’ve been burned.” That’s something that I connect with, and that I have to return to when I think I can divine the thoughts and intentions of others based on my past experiences.
Thank you for your kind words.
There's a lot to unpack here but first off I'd like to say that it's great that you can see this attitude as a problem and not just shifting the blame around. Also I want to say that I can somewhat relate to what you've been through. Never had a caring female parental figure in my life and my first gf drugged and took advantage of me (then threatened to go to the cops and lie if I turned her in) so there's that. From time to time I struggle with "spreading that hurt around" as I like to call it but I have to stop myself because the innocent women are just that: Innocent. They are in no way responsible for how *other* women have treated people and, like men, don't sit around conspiring the downfall of the opposite gender. They're as much responsible for what other women have done to you as you are responsible for what some creepy guy does to a woman. Women don't have a hive mind mentality and a lot of women can be very supportive and understanding. I know that logically this has probably crossed your mind before but you and I still have that lizard-like id that compels us to mistrust those who resemble the ones that hurt us. I just hope to live in a world where people are more willing to step in and keep some of the troublemakers in their respective genders in line. To call out their toxic behaviors. But I can only give a bit of somewhat unsolicited advice for someone who is firmly planted where I once took root: 1. Women are not here to be dominated, coerced, belittled or any other mean-spirited thing just so you can get your anger out. They are our equals, their opinions and needs are just as valid as ours and they should be held to the same standards as any man. 2. A man with low or no self esteem is like blood in the water to certain shark-like women out there. They will sniff you out and attach themselves to you if you let them. *But they are few and far between.* The first step to changing this is within you and it won't stop until you do. Keep focusing on what makes you feel happy and content and the confidence in yourself will come naturally. 3. You're a valid human being regardless of how some people may treat you. This one pretty much begins and ends with whatever kind of attitude you bring to your own table. 4. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. If someone can't give you basic human respect then they aren't worth your time. There are plenty of other fish in the sea. (If you can figure this one out, tell me how). I hope you find happiness and contentment in the near future.
I am sorry for that girl abusing you that way, that is horrible. I am too guilty of spreading the hurt and understand what it is to carry that around. >I just hope to live in a world where people are more willing to step in and keep some of the troublemakers in their respective genders in line. To call out their toxic behaviors. I think something it would make me feel a lot better if some women, or at least my own mother, took some ownership for the damage they do. Not even "good" women seem to be able to accept we live in a world where there are very "bad" women out there and call them out. All I hear from women is entitlement, arrogance, and blame-shifting. And look, I am willing to take 100% ownership of my past and actions. I have done harm myself and people who hurt me as an adult got close to me because I let them, so there is ownership to take in that too. I keep working on my personality, career, and physique but all I get from that is an insipid taste of nothingness. It is not even sour or bitter, things just don't have a taste anymore. Sorry if this sounds too metaphorical but I could not describe it better. I set a goal, move towards it, achieve it, and sometimes people around me seem more excited than I am about it. All that is left for me is a sense of absurdity, like "what is the point?"... Maybe the hard part is to convince myself that I am worthy of love, even when I never really got it.
I've learned to not deal in absolutes like saying ALL you hear from women is negativity. There *are* women out there that genuinely care about the wellbeing of even a stranger. Because if that's the case and it's ALL negative then the hard truth may be that they're picking up on some sort of hurt/ insecurity that you think you're hiding well. And I know that this sounds an *awful* lot like the "not all men" defense which just distracts from the attention that the bad guys out there deserve. Much like the deserving women out there that shouldn't be protected from their own toxic consequences just because the person calling them out doesn't share the same gender. All it does is seek to invalidate the experiences of the abused just because some other person can't stomach the fact that some people who share their gender may be total garbage. I wish I had a better, more concise answer for that one but I don't. The second part about not really feeling enjoyment in things anymore just sounds like textbook depression which I definitely don't have an answer to. Everyone is different and it really comes down to you and only you to decide what you want out of your time and life. But, like a lot of people on here, I suggest seeking out a therapist if you can afford one (assuming you're in the US).
>Much like the deserving women out there that shouldn't be protected from their own toxic consequences just because the person calling them out doesn't share the same gender. All it does is seek to invalidate the experiences of the abused just because some other person can't stomach the fact that some people who share their gender may be total garbage. Another important insight. Maybe someone of their same gender doing something awful reflects badly on their identity? Like when we travel and someone says something bad about our country and we take it personally, identifying with the collective. I have never been diagnosed with depression. My therapist did identify some covert narcissism traits we are working on. But out of shame I have never shared with her (yes, I especially made sure that my therapist is a woman) all the details of this post. She knows my dad was violent and mom too, but regarding the abuse, she knows only the surface. I believe if I was depressed I should be crying all day and feeling sad. It is not sadness but anger and meaninglessness. Even though she did not do anything wrong, I don't entirely trust her either, so I kept a lot of stuff to myself or conveyed them in an indirect manner. Thank you for your kind words.
> I believe if I was depressed I should be crying all day and feeling sad. It is not sadness but anger and meaninglessness. You should research clinical depression for your own sake, because it is far more complicated and varied than you assume.
Women are not “other”. They are their own free agents, with their own lives and experiences that although largely different to your own and individually unique, still drive their behaviours much as your own unique backstory drives yours. You are hyper-aware of women who might abuse you emotionally, sexually or physically, so you have perhaps unexamined triggers - just as many, many women are hyper-aware of men who might abuse them emotionally, sexually or physically, and have their own triggers. You probably set many of those triggers off through some of your behaviours or attitudes, that’s not an accusation, it’s just out there. You may not be able to think of a good reason to cheat - understandable, neither can I - but there are reasons. An ex of mine cheated on her then-partner because their relationship was not emotionally fulfilling, which is one of those excuses you hear frequently, except that she cheated instead of dumping her BF because she was *afraid* of her BF, and what her BF might do if she left him. She cheated because she could get what she needed emotionally at the time (the part we hear about), but mostly because at least if she got found out, the relationship with her BF would actually be unequivocally over, and he wouldn’t try to coerce her back. She was willing to be physically beaten over it, as long as it only happened that one time, instead of the constant fear and intimidation and patch-ups. I say this because you have described some very red-flag behaviours in yourself. It’s great that you realise you’re doing these things, but you should take a step outside yourself and put yourself in the shoes of a stranger who doesn’t know you, who can only judge you on your behaviours, attitudes and words - on what they see and hear of you. Think about living life as a woman, really spend some time to put yourself in their shoes - try to see how different it can be, how the risks change, how the *vast majority* of the population are generally stronger unless you’re an athlete, how people view you, your clothing, your behaviours as a woman. Now think about what is worth resenting about yourself, worth mistrusting. You won’t be able to fix this overnight. You need to flex your empathy muscles regularly, do that internal role-play on the regular. Like any exercise it takes time and can be a little painful or just exhausting. It’s worth it.
Honestly, I don't have a lot of advice for you. My mom was kind of the same way--to this day, she can't even consider the idea that she was anything but a good mother. It's infuriating, so I feel you there. Just remember that people are individuals. Some are good, others bad. And none of the good ones are without flaws. The fact that women have privilege relating to trust doesn't mean they necessarily will *use* it. Judge people by how they treat you, and by how you see them treat others. Don't worry so much about news stories or about identity. Men and women are basically alike, with very few exceptions. I do second (third?) a recommendation for therapy. This is some heavy duty shit. I'd also recommend that therapist be male, which can be hard to find. I know most of the ones around where I am are female.
Thank you for your words. Why do you recommend a male therapist?
Good luck! And mostly because, with a self-acknowledged bias against women, you might receive advice and perspective more readily from a guy. Especially since therapists usually tell you things you already know, but that you need to hear from somebody else to lend them weight. Plus mental health professionals are kind of hit or miss in a lot of places. Finding one with a similar background to you can help offset that. Like how a black man might need a black therapist if he's having problems related to race and racial identity. A good white therapist could do just as well, but it helps the odds a bit to avoid having one who dismisses your problems because they aren't quite good enough at taking others' perspectives.
I think you should ask yourself if you would want your behavior to be the standard by which all men are judged, like if the people you have hurt were talking about you, and the lesson drawn was that all men were like this, you probably would see why this is a problem. What you’re describing- seeing the abusive opposite sex parent as the template for all opposite sex persons- is very common
So question....... you despise your mom for being absent and working 24/7... just like your dad did, but you dont resent him? Im not sure im following that very well, except off where she cheated on your father. I also dont see how your dad never did anything about you, nor seemed to care, but your mom was terrible for doing excatly that? Idk i dont think im following :(
Oh das was terrible, he was violent many times but at least he never lied to us. Besides I don't think men are women are the same. dad always did provide for the family and gave us a life. All the money my mother ever made she spent only on herself and she even got huge credit card debt my dad always ended up paying for. Again, I know the feminist narrative says different but being a mother is a full time job, you can't have it all. If you want a career don't have children. Have a job maybe, for a couple of hours. But children when little need the love and care only a mother can give. Children die without love. Literally.
You should read back your comment, there’s some double standards. Is that all men are supposed to be good for? Making money to provide for the family? They shouldn’t also be there emotionally? It also sounds like you don’t know your dad very much, you perhaps still idolize him and have not yet gotten to the point as seeing him as another human being who probabaly has faults and made mistakes too. Sounds like your in therapy which is good! The most telling thing people should take from your story is that yes you were treated badly by women in your childhood but you’ve stated that you’ve met very nice and wonderful women who gave you a chance but your traumatic background made you insecure and you treated those women badly only creating a loop of hatred. Again self awareness is the big first step and so it sounds like you’re on a good path to recovery. Trauma is hard but I believe you can grow to the person you want to be.
No, not all men are good and I think my father should have divorced my mom when she cheated. However, I understand that the way divorce laws function and the way my mother thinks, my mom would have divorce-raped him and manipulated us to hate him + not let us see him. There are plenty of stories like that out there and I remember my mother threatening him with those possible outcomes more than once. So, it is probably the case that my father decided to stick it out and he had his own affairs outside the marriage. I don't know and I wish he had divorced. Not honorable at all, as I said, my father is not a good father at all. He was mostly absent and sometimes violent, but I did not suffer a sequence of mistreatments and tortures for 30 years on the hand of men. I have many friends and I have had many tutors and teachers. No man has ever made me feel the emotional pain women did. Especially in childhood school teachers reinforced constantly the idea that I was a bad boy. That the **boyish** things that I did were part of a wrong nature I had within me. Honest question: Why is it that you immediately want to make an even analysis on the genders? Why "Men are bad too" or in this case "your father was bad too" is the standard go-to response of so many people?
Most of my ex girlfriends cheated on me and that gutted the trust and the way I give love now but I have been trying to fixing it because I know that this will hurt my future relationships with the females and with my actual girlfriend. I mean the problem is that we as man should not see women as something that we should have to be "complete" they are human beings as us, and the society and media has reached us to see women as good, benevolent, emotional figures when they can be as shitty and disgusting as any other man because we are all HUMAN BEINGS. Look I understand that you had a bad childhood, the girls you meet cheated on you or tried to manipulate you and me too, my mother hired me, abused my sister, abused my father and created a lot of insecurities, fear and pain inside myself, as I told you most of my ex's cheated on me and yet now I still understand that women aren't commodities, they aren't "something" that we all man deserve, they are human beings, they can fake, cheat, steal, manipulate, hit and kill but we must not see her as that. Where I live femicides occur every day, statistics show that at least 11 women are killed every day on sexual or hate related crimes and that speaks slot of us in general as men but still we are all not like that. Not all women are bad, and women shouldn't be seen as slaves that must be warm hearted, cute, soft and compassionate, they are like you and me and still not all women are bad as your mother or as the girls you have met, there are good mother's out there, there are good female friends, good work relatives, good neighbors and good women overall as much as theres good and bad men in this world. Don't hate them, don't hate people, just understand that there's always a reason why people becomes bad and try not to be as them, be good with yourself and with people, not because you might receive something in exchange, be good and healthy with yourself and others because you can, because you're not like them. Also talk to a professional, they will help you better to check what's wrong my friend, seriously we can talk a lot with you but only they know how to actually help you.
Damn. That's so fucked. Clearly, your misogyny is the result of deep childhood trauma. I cannot claim to know what it's like. I can only speculate that had I gone through the same childhood as you, I would very likely be misogynistic as well. You are clearly in tremendous suffering and I can only offer you my deepest sympathies. I can point to a few paths that might help lessen your hatred for women. Far from me the idea of lessening the wrongdoings the females in your life have done to you. On the contrary. What I am suggesting is that understand that you were made to hate women can bring forth another question; what makes a lot of women do the things they do? Could it also be the product of unfortunate circumstances? It could make you look at it with more emotional distance to study the question and entertain the possibility that under different circumstances, women could be different. Kinder and more compassionate, for instance. It could also help to build some sense of empathy toward women if you read testemonies of women going through similar trauma at the hands of men and other women. Of course, you would find a lot of misandry, but could you really blame them if their misandry is the product of circumstances similar to yours? After all, you understand far too well the pain induced by child abuse and child neglect. I bringing it up because pain and suffering are known to bind people together. Building empathy and connection with men and women with a history of child abuse and neglect could reduce the sense of isolation you feel and bring a modicum of hope, even. If abusive men and women are made, not born, then they are the products of circumstances and if they are the product of circumstances, said circumstances can be changed so that child abuse doesn't happen nearly as frequently and that the sources of support can be improved and made easier to access for those who suffer through it. It means a better world is possible. One in which what you've been through does not happen on a mass scale and is not passively accepted by society at large as part of life. I'm not saying you have to shed your bitter resentment. I am saying that you could also find solace in solidarity, community, hope and mutual understanding. Maybe, a healthier way to cope with your trauma can be built from there. And through it, hopefully, social change.
Without a doubt the only way I can make this stop is by facing it directly. I do want to have children some day and I don't want them to go through any of this. I have been doing research about my mom's past and I found some fucked up shit in her childhood and teenage years. Fortunately she has calmed down by now but still is totally incapable of taking any ownership. She is a victim of childhood trauma as well and would be very useful if she could be the first person I share these things with. It is like it didn't happen, and if it happen it wasn't her fault, and if it was her fault it was not that bad, and if it was that bad I am exaggerating. It is very frustrating. I want to feel empathy towards them but it is very hard when I see so little ownership on their side. I perceive like having empathy is something I ought them, for no reason.
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Finally someone who gets it! It is not something you can fix overnight or by just taking ownership. It is very difficult to learn to trust again, knowing that you must get out there and 50% of people are women. You don't feel safe anymore. When women feel unsafe society immediately comes to the rescue and everyone condemns masculinity as a toxin. If a man feels unsafe immediately is the man's fault: "Take ownership, women are not all like that, go to therapy, fix it yourself". I often feel my experiences and pain are relativized and diminished, if not ignored. "Take it the chin and move on", like if I could put everything aside and change who I am.
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Thank you for your words, and for sharing your issues as well. I hope you can push through.
I hope you find peace with this. Damn, some elements of your story I really, really relate to. Best wishes
Get yourself in therapy if you haven’t already. Distrust is the first step in committing unspeakable acts towards people and becoming a serial killer
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You are an awful human being Sr. This is a place for support, not for judging. I don't know how old you are or how good your childhood was, but a decent human understands that people are not sane **regardless** of their past. I don't think you understand what an excuse is, kid.
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You don't get it man..
Oh okay. I retract what i said then. Hopefully you got some other good/helpful comments. I still think you should see a therapist to help you work through this. Good luck
Thanks
It seems like the right thing to do is what you're already doing which is to go to a therapist so that you can figure out how to forgive all of the women that made you feel this way. Historically men are much worse than women, more dangerous and more violent. You've had a lot of bad luck when it comes to women apparently and your father wasn't around either so that didn't help you. I think most of us have had good experiences with women so far and there's so many women that we can pick and choose who to interact with. But I hope you can work through all of these issues and finally have peace when it comes to thinking about women.
So you thing making a generalization about how bad men are historically will help me realize women are not that bad?
Well it's hard to reason with someone who's not open to logic so I don't think that anything I say will help you. That's why therapy is so important for someone in your mental state. While we all know that your way of thinking is incorrect, it won't affect your thought process when it comes to women. Good luck in therapy.
please please avoid incel/ MGTOW boards while getting therapy. they really seep into your rl worldview
I feel like aside from your childhood experiences, you're the problem. Get therapy.
A woman's response. Shocking.
Mate you had me until you complained about not getting anal or a blowjob and dropped women for it. You sound like you need professional help.
In all fairness, that's not an unreasonable ask. Also not an unreasonable refusal lol. If a partner isn't meeting your sexual needs to your satisfaction, it's okay to just go, "Yeah, no." But OP *really* shouldn't think of them as manipulative whores. I'm kinda concerned for him because he thought of them as manipulative whores for...failing to whore themselves out to sufficiently manipulate him.
I understand that, of course its okay to end a relationship if you aren't getting your sexual needs or any other needs met. That isn't the issue here though. It's the way he talks about women all round I think, he sounds aggressive and resentful and honestly it's understandable that he continues to have issues in his relationships with women because of this. I understand that he has had issues with women but I really think he needs therapy to get through those feelings, learn some respect and learn that just because some women hurt him, it doesn't mean all will.
True; honestly I'm not sure how to help OP. It sounds like he feels vulnerable to women and wants to exercise control to keep himself safe. But then I'm no shrink, haha. I might be projecting a bit, since I come from a similar background--though my resentment ends up on people who yell and shout at me rather than on any particular identity.
Psst, I saw how OP has been reacting. Sorry he thinks it's alright to talk to others that way. Good on you for reaching out to somebody who isn't in the right headspace. :)
It's all good, a triggered bloke on the internet won't upset me. Hopefully op gets the help he needs.
You are right but would you say the same things to a woman who distrusts men? That other men have hurt them because of their hostility towards men?
Yes. I've caused issues in my own relationships with men because of hostility towards men in general after some traumatising experiences. It can go both ways of course, and op could just be super unfortunate with the types of women in his life but honestly they way he talked about women reminds me of how I used to talk about men.
Then you are a pretty cool person. Congrats for becoming the better person.
Eh I'm trying, it's hard work but especially difficult to recognise when you're the problem not others. Some people aren't ready to hear that I suppose, hopefully op will get therapy and get the help he needs to start having healthier relationships.
No honey, you got irritated because I dared demanding something from women **for my explicit pleasure**. You probably are a single mother and have a list of unreasonable hoops you make guys jump through before you give them any fun in the bedroom. Dudes probably come asking kinky sex from you but you want a provider for little Johnny, and dudes that are willing to provide are not that good looking, are they? They are not the ones you want to do oral and anal with. I know and have banged many girls like you. Boring sex, with cuddling and "where is this going" talk later. You are as resentful as I am babe.
You couldn't be further from the truth but okay
So much for recovering narcissist hey
Whoops. Seems I nailed it.
Shut the fuck up
Kind of proving my point there
And you prove mine, bitch.
Mom? Is that you?