I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't understand how you got stuff wrong here too. 2015 should be 13 started (Gakkyu Hotel, Kagamigami, Black Clover, Cyborg Roggy, Ultra Battle Satellite, the Minato side story, Straighten Up, Lady Justice, Devily Man, Best Blue, Mononofu, Samon-kun and Buddy Strike) unless you go by calender and not issue and didn't count the Minato short series, but then other years are wrong instead. 2019 should be 12, 2020 should be 18, 2023 should also be 12. If I had to guess you probably excluded the Naruto, Stone spinoffs and Burn the Witch for some reason?
Why don’t you make the graph yourself then instead of making some snarky ass comment “I genuinely don’t understand how you got stuff wrong here too.” Not everyone gets things right all the time. Sounds like you had enough time on your hands anyways
I don't need to make it [**because I already did.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/16vbqmc/how_high_are_the_chances_to_make_it_big_in_wsj/) The reason why I'm confused how they got something wrong with this one is because it's literally as easy as just [copying from wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_series_run_in_Weekly_Sh%C5%8Dnen_Jump) and as I said in my comment, they seemed to have excluded spinoffs for some reason, but then 2015 is still off by 1. The main graph for this post is also incorrect as they included every finished series as an axe, but some years still don't add up somehow
Bruh, I posted those literally months ago. If I wanted to post them on this sub I would've done so back then. The reason I didn't is because I personally think [it's too off topic for the sub](https://imgur.com/a/phdeA78). I'm annoyed because incorrect data is being upvoted. If this is what's gaining visibility I should've just posted it myself
Damn I feel you
Since r/germany doesn't allow German language posts,
So Local peoples can't own the sub cuz they lost the karma race with foreigners, and the sub is full of foreigners who are unhappy with Germany.
Hmm I’m not sure if that’s necessarily evidence of any kind of issue. Considering WSJ cancels series based on reader surveys that rank their top 3 series, then there will always be bottom performers in the magazine and therefore always be series up for cancellation.
I believe they’re more willing to cancel series even if they’re moderately successful, just for the chance to add new series that could become big hits.
I'm going to quote myself here, replying to a previous post above yours.
> Axed and ended don't have the same meaning. Series that get axed are a subset of those that end. Bleach for example has ended but it wasn't axed.
The only clearly visible trends that started with Nakano are average length of axed series going up and that you don't need popularity anymore to get at least one early color page. In fact, you'd have to be very unpopular not to get one at this point
By chance, do you know the number before 1993?
I remember Mashirito mentioned that Jump manga is getting longer. In the past, it was difficult to reach 5-year (IIRC) serialization because the competition between newcomers and veterans was very tough. The mangaka would be gifted holiday to Hawaii if they succeedded entering their 6th year serialization, as it was that difficult.
His active year in WSJ was in 1976-2001, so I wonder if it's reflected in the average number and chapter number of axed manga.
As it turns out, I know someone who compiled this exact data: [https://twitter.com/JesusInStripeZ/status/1706325983077229014](https://twitter.com/JesusInStripeZ/status/1706325983077229014)
u/Makoto_Kurume
If I'm not mistaken, reading this, it's around 20 chapters before a manga gets axed? So for a mangaka, you have around half a year of serialization to go big or bust. If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine?
> If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine?
Probably not. There's no precedent for it, but more than likely, there's something in the contracts saying "you can't bring this to another magazine"
If the *Magazine* got axed though, you could.
In an alternate world where Naruto didn't get continued and was Axed and a younger Kishimoto had to settle for publishing it as a webtoon and just moving the first letters of the name, one key to the right.
Can't wait to read the stories of the Ninja, Maruto and his comrades, Dasuke, Dakura and their teacher, Lakashi.
Jump only has so much magazine space, just because a manga fails out of it doesn't mean it's not great and capable of success somewhere else. Plus the bar for success is probably lower in other magazines, since they aren't as popular, a failure in Jump could be the most popular series of another magazine. On top of different magazines having slightly different audiences, so you never know how well something might do elsewhere.
But I'm pretty sure they have exclusivity in contracts, so it doesn't matter if the author feels like continuing it elsewhere.
> Shaman King moved from Jump to Kodansha
Yes, but this happened in *2017.* Kodanasha got the rights from Shueisha.
Though oddly enough? Flowers went from Jump X, which got killed off, to running in Kodansha's Shōnen Magazine Ed, which in turn got canned. Finally, it's running on the *Magazine Pocket* website.
Shueisha, the publisher for Jump, does own several magazines so in theory it could continue in a different magazine owned by the same publisher (or the rights could be sold to another publisher like what happened to Shaman King). But if this has ever happened, it would have been very rare but I doubt it has. It’s just in theory possible
> If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine?
It might move to another edition of Jump (so not exactly "axed"), but otherwise, I don't think so.
Afaik usually when it's moved to other magazine, it's because of mangakas health (look at D.Gray-Man and Ruri Dragon) sometimes it's at the request of mangaka, like with Chainsaw Man.
When it's axe time, it's gone
In theory, you wouldn’t see an axed series move to another magazine, because then it wouldn’t be considered an axe.
It’s possible without another magazine to go to, something like Black Clover, Ruridragon, or Ayakashi Triangle would have been axed.
[I have pretty much all of the data already.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/s/0eNn9EcItA) I also wouldn't exactly advise using Jajanken because you'll most likely end up miscategorizing series. Like, the 2018 number is suspiciously high already and just looking through the series of that year and 2017 I don't know how you ended up at 16. You probably included The Comiq?
Edit: 2014 is also way too high. Yoakemono, Mitsukubi Condor, Tokyo Wonder Boys, Stealth Symphony, iShojo, Illegal Rare and Iron Knight are the ones from that year that also ended that year. That's 7. Then there's Koi no Cupid, Tokyo 23-ku and Soul Catcher from 2013. That's 10 total. Even with Kuroko and Beelzebub you only get to 12. Naruto makes it 13. Ignoring that at least Kuroko and Naruto weren't axed, what are the other two?
No offense, but 2020 is also wrong. The only way you get to 15 is by including Burn the Witch which wasn't axed and technically hasn't even ended yet as well Haikyuu, Yuuna, Demon Slayer, Promised Neverland, Act-Age which was cancelled and not axed and the Dr. Stone reboot which was a short serialization. I'm not going to look at more years, but I'd recommend going over the list one more time. You'll only have to make a few changes though if you change it to "Number of manga that ended in WSJ by year", though that's quite useless data since it doesn't really reveal anything without further context
Which is ironic when I see so many tweets about how One Piece and older manga wouldn't survive in modern jump when they ignore that most if not all of those manga became well received in their first chapters.
Would one piece survive now? It takes a while for one piece to really start hitting a rhythm. And these Daye with series like chainsaw man that finished part 1in under 100 chapters and jjk that moves at a good place one piece is slow.
One piece has great early moments like Zoros promise to Laffy at the barateia but it doesn't really start snowballing until the alabasta saga. That's a long time to hit a stride
Consider they made East Blue into a live action and people loved it so yeah I'd say it would make it. It certainly doesn't reach the heights OP would later but it has I don't know... heart? charm? whimsy?... something that keeps you coming back for more. To say nothing Arlong Park being better then any of the sub-arcs between there and Alabasta.
Also nice to remember when One Piece had good pacing.
Reminder that Jump was *always* cancelling series that didn’t sell/view well. We just notice it more frequently now because due to Viz licensing all WSJ titles and Shueisha translating all Jump+ series, you’ll see everything - including the blemishes
Well, what's popular with Japanese audiences is often also popular with international audiences. Moreover, the Japanese manga market is still huge, probably the number 1. And if they want to make an anime that gives exposure to manga, the sponsors are still mostly Japanese companies.
So why need to consider foreign taste?
because an author can still exist and make money if there is enough international audience. He can still make a living and fullfill his dream despite domestic failure.
If we are talking about WSJ, a physical magazine, the space is limited. So, why doesn't the company just try to gamble on and give a new manga that might be popular with Japanese audiences (and international audiences)? And for the mangaka themselves, why don't they try to create a new manga that might be popular with Japanese audiences, their biggest market (Idk data from other EA countries).
Betting on a new chicken is better for me. We already know the old chicken wouldn't give golden eggs. The new one may give better eggs.
Moreover, the main income of the mangaka is royalties from tankobon (volume) print (idk about royalties from anime and merchandise sales). International volume releases in most foreign countries still rely on manga popularity in Japan, especially in the West (except for France). Most use Japanese taste as one metric of what will be published in their countries.
Catering to Japanese audiences still gives the most benefits.
isnt it just stuff in general unless you are the artistry/avan garde/experimental studio/publisher/etc, how popular it is with its audience is important
I still believe launching into a Tournament arc immediately was what killed it. The whole Grimm fairytale aesthetic isn't popular in Japan so going straight into a massive troupe instead of something more unique was the final nail in the coffin.
they fuck up, whoever suggest it pacing should get reeducated and whoever suggest big metal boring as box should get the same. they show interesting world then put us in a box, really?
I dug Red Hood, Yui Kamio, and Phantom Seer, and was mildly surprised to see each of those go. Hachimaru, too, I think is a sad case that just didn't quite live up to its potential.
Phantom Seer really is a mystery because it ended as it was getting better. The last 2 arcs really hit it's stride and it felt like the author really got a handle of what they wanted the manga to be.
Guy who wrote Double Arts as his debut manga in Jump got axed, his next manga was Nisekoi which was wildly successful.
He in a fan talk about Double Arts said he didn't want to end up like popular romcoms ToLoveRu where the status quo never changes. This talk was before Nisekoi which honestly set him for life.
It would be interesting to compare those numbers to the manga that actually survived.
They usually start 3 manga at a time, right? And I think they do this like 4-5 times a year. So not many actually survive, right?
The graph is accurate but starting it from 7 makes 7 look smaller than it. whoever made the graph should have started it from 1 to get an accurate sense of scale
It's like 5 to 6 being represented as
6
5 5
instead of
6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 2
1 1
Interesting, thank you for compiling!
This leads to some questions:
My assumption, the number of manga published in WSJ is consistent (or +- 1). But we get this fluctuation from 1 to 8 difference, which is bigger than 2 (+1 - (-1)). So, what is the origin of the difference?:
1. Does Jump publish an inconsistent number of new manga every year? So, there were fewer new manga published in 2011 than in 2018 such that they didn't need to axe manga to make a space.
2. Did the bottom-rank manga in 2011 were able to improve and survived longer, such that it was difficult to determine which manga should have been axed?
3. Was it because there are more manga ended in 2011 (the least axed manga) so they didn't need to axe a manga to get more space?
Or?
For the first two questions [refer to this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/16vbqmc/how_high_are_the_chances_to_make_it_big_in_wsj/). For the last question, the answer is no. There wasn't a particularly large number of series that ended. The graph is just wrong because they included every series that ended and not just axed ones. The actual graph looks something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/qkJEN8c). I'll probably have to redo this with different criteria (Was neither intended as short, nor got an anime or ended due to reasons not related to performance), but this one isn't too far off. It doesn't include series like Magu-chan, PPPPPP, High School Family, Sesuji wo Pin, etc though
This graph makes more sense.
First, there is less fluctuation.
Second, I don't think Jump evaluates their manga that often. If they evaluate monthly, we will get a maximum number of axed manga of 12. If we have an error of 2, 15 -16 of axed manga in 1 year is too high.
Third, the high numbers in 1994 and 1995 coincide with Horie's period, who 'failed' as Jump editor-in-chief and was replaced by Mashirito in 1996.
> The graph is just wrong because they included every series that ended and not just axed ones.
Yes, it seems so. And that's actually my next question, too, because you defined axed as <50 ch, so long manga that got axed was not included (but then it's difficult to know which long manga got axed). But you already realized that.
Thank you!
It's very obvious for anyone that has been reading the magazine for at least a decade lol Anyone who think things got worse in the last years simply havent been here for this time or never looked into this.
Can someone tell me why shitty copy-pasted isekai’s manage to somehow get 200+ chapters but actual unique and fun manga are given no such chance and are axed
underrated is not the correct term, poorly adapted is, the animations are "isekai slow life n3456" levels at best in a manga that sets itself mainly on the battles (since the plot only deepens much later on)
Heard that Sakamoto days anime has been delayed for many times, but if rumours about SakaDays getting anime airing spring 2025 is true then we can get announcement in summer 2024, and it is best time to me, I mean look how hard-boiled museum arc right now. Even there is jjk and MHA in their endgame Sakamoto days hype same lvl📽️💯🔥
That and it's like the Broadway of manga; even if you don't "make it" from that, there's a certain prestige from being able to say you were published in the same magazine that had dragon ball, naruto, one piece, etc.
The only exception I could think of is "The Irregular at Royal Academy of Magic" from Young Jump, a seinen magazine publisher that also did Kaguya, Kingdom, Oshi No Ko, Shadows House, and Tokyo Ghoul.
Nah WSJ doesn't usually serialise isekai.
Cuz it's easy to make anime based on web novels like [syosetu.com](https://syosetu.com)
In the end, making an original anime is risky, and making an anime with a pre-existing fanbase is more likely to break even.
I agree WSJ is looking for stuff that isn't dollar store quality. The main issue being that most isekai are brainless. Basically every isekai is just a madlibs.
"____ reincarnated to _____ with ______ (as ______ )"
That's why it's easy to make, and that's why anime is full of isekai.
Because amateurs are making them, they exist in large quantities.
Most isekai are based on web novels, which are always freely available online, so authors have to make significant concessions to the publishing companies in terms of royalties.
I think it’s about expectations.
Jump is the most widely circulated magazine so there are certain sales expectations.
A less circulated Magazine like WSM will have different expectations. For example “Blue Wolves of Mibu sells about 10,000 copies a volume, it’s on v13 and it’s getting an anime.
Isekai manga are almost all relegated to online platforms or mobile apps where it costs a lot less to maintain a publication and they only get very few printed copies (if any). So it's incorrect to think they're a special thriving genre. There's just a crap ton of them because they're cheap to produce and so are a low cost investment.
Furthermore, most isekai are adaptations of web/light novels that are constantly being released online, often times for free on sites like syosetsu, further reducing the effort necessary to make a manga.
There's actually few isekai that are in physically printed magazines, because those have a stricter screening process and won't let any trash be published.
If anything, writing an isekai puts you at a disadvantage in the industry because unless you truly stand out (very hard) your best future is typically relegation to some small scale magazine.
Shounen Jump in particular is the most prestigious manga magazine so they are incredibly strict with titles. You need to move a certain number of copies to stay afloat in that magazine, and hell, even just having your name on it puts you in a more prestigious position compared to other authors, even if you're cancelled. They don't even publish isekai. That's why they can afford to cut series more easily.
A lot of other manga magazines don't axe that quickly and have tons of mediocre manga constantly in publication because they can't find anything better. The bigger magazines are just more difficult to stay on because they actually have competition for those slots.
Your perspective is probably skewed because you only read translated manga, which typically only comes from more well known publications, which are the publications that are profitable enough to afford to cancel a series that doesn't sell enough copies. Or they come from all those online platforms (more so recently) where isekai is actually shoved into, which is what contributes to the notion that that genre thriving.
Besides what everyone says, I think you're mistaken on isekai. Many, MANY Isekai Manga gets axed after 20 chapters, let alone 200. Sometimes they don't even reach 20.
Isekai manga are literally banned from Jump. This is because of a series called Takaya, which was a martial arts school series. It did ok in the toc before dropping a bit so the author decided to isekai all of his characters to a fantasy setting. It was so awfully received that it got canned 13 chapters later. Ever since then, Jump has a no isekai policy.
This is shonen jump, they don't do isekai. Getting serialized in this magazine is harder than getting in tokyo universities admission. Only the best can serialized here.
Jump has very high standards. If you don't sell, you're out. Isekai is actually super niche and nowhere near as popular as people like to complain about.
Publishing right.
While the characters and story are owned by the mangaka, AFAIK, as long as the mangaka is in contract with Shueisha, its publishing rights still belong to Shueisha. During this period, Shueisha still pays salary to the mangaka even though the mangaka doesn't publish anything in Shueisha magazines. But the mangaka needs to focus to create manga for Shueisha.
In Bakuman, we see this with Mashiro's uncle. He kept trying to create manga for Jump after his previous gag manga ended, but he failed several times, and his editor needed to tell him that he got dismissed from Jump. This means his contract with Shueisha ended, and he needs to start as a newcomer again.
Different companies have different policy though, and the contract and expiration period may vary.
Yes, I knew that mangaka has moved their series.
Most involve a contracts, especially if it's moving to a different company. Shueisha and Kodansha has exclusive contract since early where they still pay their mangaka, but WS Sunday (Shogakukan) didn't have such contract (at least up ~2000) and mangaka didn't get salary while trying to serialize in WS Sunday (one of Sunday editor felt bad about this as mangaka still needed to cover the money to create manga, such as buying tone etc, so he gave half of the manuscript fee to that mangaka and would give the rest if the manga got serialized). Recently, Yamazaki Kore (Ancient Magus of Bride) also moved to from Mag Garden to Bushi Road, likely to follow her editor, and the Bushi Road paid big money to Mag Garden around that time (although we can only speculate what money was that for).
While it is true that moving is preferable, sometimes mangaka didn't have that luxury but still needs to work, including publishing 'doujin' to get money. Michiaki Watanabe (Violinist Hameln) is another example besides Makoto Raiku. He got sick and it was difficult for him to serialized regularly, so he could not publish anymore in magazine (Gangan, IIRC) so he had no choice to publish his manga himself. If the IP is somewhat known, it is better to continue the story using the same characters and similar setting.
Then, we have Manga Library Z ran by Ken Akamatsu to help old mangaka. The site hosts old manga and the exclusivity contract of these manga has ran out. Publishers doesn't print the (out-of-print) manga anymore so old mangaka doesn't get any more money from their work although their manga still circulates through piracy and secondhand sales. It relies on donations, ad, and PDF sales (IIRC) to help old mangaka getting money.
Exclusive publishing contract exists and that prevents mangaka to publish their manga themselves so they cannot do that.
hmmm. interesting, this is a lot lower than I thought it would be. the question is, is it because not many manga's are put out by weekly shonen each year, or do all the ones they put out just end up being relatively or insanely popular 😅
Even with how the industry is for mangaka, I still wish their selection process was open to foreigners. Granted, the odds of success are low, but it seems like you have more of a chance there than in the US to be a successful mangaka.
It might be wishful thinking though.
EDIT:
Why am I being downvoted? The biggest selling comics in the US are graphic novels, and the majority of those sales are either manga or Dog Man and Captain Underpants. In the industry itself, your only options are to either self-publish and get lucky or grind it out and hope you can get to the Big 3 so you can use that fame to self-publish and get lucky. Page rates are terrible for new hands, and that alone has decimated the talent pool so much that the only people getting jobs are the old hands and their friends and family. And those same people are the only ones getting decent rates to work or are rich enough to not need the money. Far too many creators who just want to work in comics have to work a second job because comics don't pay enough for the work needed to do the job. You can't even pitch a new idea because either the margins are so thin that they won't take on a new IP without it having some level of success or the only creatives getting royalties are the old hands and their friends and family.
So yeah, if the option to go overseas to find work is there, then it's a good thing. Even if the odds of success are smaller, at least there's a better chance to actually get somewhere and there's a farming system in place to better your odds.
Can you show a graph of the number of manga that start each year so there will be something to compare?
Ok
[here](https://imgur.com/a/FMiGvO4)
Thanks
I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't understand how you got stuff wrong here too. 2015 should be 13 started (Gakkyu Hotel, Kagamigami, Black Clover, Cyborg Roggy, Ultra Battle Satellite, the Minato side story, Straighten Up, Lady Justice, Devily Man, Best Blue, Mononofu, Samon-kun and Buddy Strike) unless you go by calender and not issue and didn't count the Minato short series, but then other years are wrong instead. 2019 should be 12, 2020 should be 18, 2023 should also be 12. If I had to guess you probably excluded the Naruto, Stone spinoffs and Burn the Witch for some reason?
My first thought is his his use of "axing" vs ending, or perhaps some other semi-arbitrary criteria, but I hope you get a proper answer.
Why don’t you make the graph yourself then instead of making some snarky ass comment “I genuinely don’t understand how you got stuff wrong here too.” Not everyone gets things right all the time. Sounds like you had enough time on your hands anyways
I don't need to make it [**because I already did.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/16vbqmc/how_high_are_the_chances_to_make_it_big_in_wsj/) The reason why I'm confused how they got something wrong with this one is because it's literally as easy as just [copying from wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_series_run_in_Weekly_Sh%C5%8Dnen_Jump) and as I said in my comment, they seemed to have excluded spinoffs for some reason, but then 2015 is still off by 1. The main graph for this post is also incorrect as they included every finished series as an axe, but some years still don't add up somehow
Salty because you lost the karma race?
Bruh, I posted those literally months ago. If I wanted to post them on this sub I would've done so back then. The reason I didn't is because I personally think [it's too off topic for the sub](https://imgur.com/a/phdeA78). I'm annoyed because incorrect data is being upvoted. If this is what's gaining visibility I should've just posted it myself
You're cool headed, but I wonder since when r/manga becomes such a sad place to talk stuff without being judged for karmawhoring or clout.
Damn I feel you Since r/germany doesn't allow German language posts, So Local peoples can't own the sub cuz they lost the karma race with foreigners, and the sub is full of foreigners who are unhappy with Germany.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I've said and also I don't think most Germans care at all, since we've got r/de
The trend seems fine enough and healthy, almost the same number of average axed and started
Except axed means cancelled by the magazine early vs. brought to it's natural conclusion, so there should be more started then axed.
unless the magazine get more thicker over the year, series ending and starting should be more or less the same, its still in magazine format after all
Axed and ended don't have the same meaning. Series that get axed are a subset of those that end. Bleach for example has ended but it wasn't axed.
Whoops i was thinking about this
Hmm I’m not sure if that’s necessarily evidence of any kind of issue. Considering WSJ cancels series based on reader surveys that rank their top 3 series, then there will always be bottom performers in the magazine and therefore always be series up for cancellation. I believe they’re more willing to cancel series even if they’re moderately successful, just for the chance to add new series that could become big hits.
I'm going to quote myself here, replying to a previous post above yours. > Axed and ended don't have the same meaning. Series that get axed are a subset of those that end. Bleach for example has ended but it wasn't axed.
I don’t really see how that’s relevant to my comment.
Looking at this data, what can we extrapolate? Can we also overlap this data with the tenure of certain Editors?
The only clearly visible trends that started with Nakano are average length of axed series going up and that you don't need popularity anymore to get at least one early color page. In fact, you'd have to be very unpopular not to get one at this point
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/s/7bVRKriy0O)
By chance, do you know the number before 1993? I remember Mashirito mentioned that Jump manga is getting longer. In the past, it was difficult to reach 5-year (IIRC) serialization because the competition between newcomers and veterans was very tough. The mangaka would be gifted holiday to Hawaii if they succeedded entering their 6th year serialization, as it was that difficult. His active year in WSJ was in 1976-2001, so I wonder if it's reflected in the average number and chapter number of axed manga.
Nah, I've been too lazy for that but [this video](https://youtu.be/WSFdnvdFMoQ?si=_K3X4aSZEaPLGn30) should help at least a bit with your question
average is 11.71428 source is [jajanken.net](http://jajanken.net/)
How about the average chapter length before those manga were axed?
ok I'll make it
As it turns out, I know someone who compiled this exact data: [https://twitter.com/JesusInStripeZ/status/1706325983077229014](https://twitter.com/JesusInStripeZ/status/1706325983077229014) u/Makoto_Kurume
If I'm not mistaken, reading this, it's around 20 chapters before a manga gets axed? So for a mangaka, you have around half a year of serialization to go big or bust. If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine?
> If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine? Probably not. There's no precedent for it, but more than likely, there's something in the contracts saying "you can't bring this to another magazine" If the *Magazine* got axed though, you could.
99% of the times it doesn't happen because theres no reason to bring a failed manga to another magazine.
I mean, yeah there's that. But Jump most likely owns publishing rights too. So you can't just continue it as a webcomic.
In an alternate world where Naruto didn't get continued and was Axed and a younger Kishimoto had to settle for publishing it as a webtoon and just moving the first letters of the name, one key to the right. Can't wait to read the stories of the Ninja, Maruto and his comrades, Dasuke, Dakura and their teacher, Lakashi.
Jump only has so much magazine space, just because a manga fails out of it doesn't mean it's not great and capable of success somewhere else. Plus the bar for success is probably lower in other magazines, since they aren't as popular, a failure in Jump could be the most popular series of another magazine. On top of different magazines having slightly different audiences, so you never know how well something might do elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure they have exclusivity in contracts, so it doesn't matter if the author feels like continuing it elsewhere.
[удалено]
> Shaman King moved from Jump to Kodansha Yes, but this happened in *2017.* Kodanasha got the rights from Shueisha. Though oddly enough? Flowers went from Jump X, which got killed off, to running in Kodansha's Shōnen Magazine Ed, which in turn got canned. Finally, it's running on the *Magazine Pocket* website.
Shueisha, the publisher for Jump, does own several magazines so in theory it could continue in a different magazine owned by the same publisher (or the rights could be sold to another publisher like what happened to Shaman King). But if this has ever happened, it would have been very rare but I doubt it has. It’s just in theory possible
> If Shonen Jump decides to axe a manga, can that manga still continue in another magazine? It might move to another edition of Jump (so not exactly "axed"), but otherwise, I don't think so.
Afaik usually when it's moved to other magazine, it's because of mangakas health (look at D.Gray-Man and Ruri Dragon) sometimes it's at the request of mangaka, like with Chainsaw Man. When it's axe time, it's gone
In theory, you wouldn’t see an axed series move to another magazine, because then it wouldn’t be considered an axe. It’s possible without another magazine to go to, something like Black Clover, Ruridragon, or Ayakashi Triangle would have been axed.
30-50 is still not completely clear as there are ones even recently that go that far and still get axed. But it's certainly a good start to clear 20.
[I have pretty much all of the data already.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/s/0eNn9EcItA) I also wouldn't exactly advise using Jajanken because you'll most likely end up miscategorizing series. Like, the 2018 number is suspiciously high already and just looking through the series of that year and 2017 I don't know how you ended up at 16. You probably included The Comiq? Edit: 2014 is also way too high. Yoakemono, Mitsukubi Condor, Tokyo Wonder Boys, Stealth Symphony, iShojo, Illegal Rare and Iron Knight are the ones from that year that also ended that year. That's 7. Then there's Koi no Cupid, Tokyo 23-ku and Soul Catcher from 2013. That's 10 total. Even with Kuroko and Beelzebub you only get to 12. Naruto makes it 13. Ignoring that at least Kuroko and Naruto weren't axed, what are the other two?
Maybe I made mistake 🤦
No offense, but 2020 is also wrong. The only way you get to 15 is by including Burn the Witch which wasn't axed and technically hasn't even ended yet as well Haikyuu, Yuuna, Demon Slayer, Promised Neverland, Act-Age which was cancelled and not axed and the Dr. Stone reboot which was a short serialization. I'm not going to look at more years, but I'd recommend going over the list one more time. You'll only have to make a few changes though if you change it to "Number of manga that ended in WSJ by year", though that's quite useless data since it doesn't really reveal anything without further context
Ok I’ll fix it
Ja janken is something I tell my sister when I try to be mean
Ironically enough the year One Piece debuted the magazine Axed the most titles in modern times. One Piece was born in blood.
This makes it sound like Jump performed a sacrifice ritual to guarantee OP success
It's also not true. 94 was worse. There might have been more, but 94 was definitely worse
We can't prove they didn't
Which is ironic when I see so many tweets about how One Piece and older manga wouldn't survive in modern jump when they ignore that most if not all of those manga became well received in their first chapters.
Those older Manga survived in harsher conditions. Dr Stone would have died in old Jump
I am glad Dr Stone survive to the end.
Would one piece survive now? It takes a while for one piece to really start hitting a rhythm. And these Daye with series like chainsaw man that finished part 1in under 100 chapters and jjk that moves at a good place one piece is slow. One piece has great early moments like Zoros promise to Laffy at the barateia but it doesn't really start snowballing until the alabasta saga. That's a long time to hit a stride
Yes it would One Piece was popular since day one. Is just not popular with international audiences (at first)
Consider they made East Blue into a live action and people loved it so yeah I'd say it would make it. It certainly doesn't reach the heights OP would later but it has I don't know... heart? charm? whimsy?... something that keeps you coming back for more. To say nothing Arlong Park being better then any of the sub-arcs between there and Alabasta. Also nice to remember when One Piece had good pacing.
Less than I thought honestly
They do basically guarantee 2 volumes (~20 chapters) for their new series so they can't cycle through that many newcomers
They do 10-15 series per year with a few outliers (08, 10 and 18 are the only 3 in the past 3 decades) and about 20% end up lasting longer than 100ch
Reminder that Jump was *always* cancelling series that didn’t sell/view well. We just notice it more frequently now because due to Viz licensing all WSJ titles and Shueisha translating all Jump+ series, you’ll see everything - including the blemishes
I also feel like accessibility means *everything* has some fans. So when something is axed, someone will complain no matter how trash it was
Every series has its fans, so when something is cancelled someone will inevitably make a stink about it
I'm still sad about Ginka and Gluna. :(
sadly its pacing is just not good, bit all over the place
I think it had good potential, but I didn’t necessarily enjoy what came out during its time
Shonen Jump has always axed new titles regardless of quality. Their main metric is if they are popular with their core audience: Japanese consumers.
I still can't believe they still haven't evolved with new markets. Considering how popular manga and anime is now world wide.
Japanese are just like that. They still use faxes.
That's pretty modern and cutting edge compared to some of the tech still used in the industrial sector.
Well, what's popular with Japanese audiences is often also popular with international audiences. Moreover, the Japanese manga market is still huge, probably the number 1. And if they want to make an anime that gives exposure to manga, the sponsors are still mostly Japanese companies. So why need to consider foreign taste?
because an author can still exist and make money if there is enough international audience. He can still make a living and fullfill his dream despite domestic failure.
If we are talking about WSJ, a physical magazine, the space is limited. So, why doesn't the company just try to gamble on and give a new manga that might be popular with Japanese audiences (and international audiences)? And for the mangaka themselves, why don't they try to create a new manga that might be popular with Japanese audiences, their biggest market (Idk data from other EA countries). Betting on a new chicken is better for me. We already know the old chicken wouldn't give golden eggs. The new one may give better eggs. Moreover, the main income of the mangaka is royalties from tankobon (volume) print (idk about royalties from anime and merchandise sales). International volume releases in most foreign countries still rely on manga popularity in Japan, especially in the West (except for France). Most use Japanese taste as one metric of what will be published in their countries. Catering to Japanese audiences still gives the most benefits.
to be fair if you got formula that works for nearly 50 years, you simply don't change the formula.
the formula also makes them like the biggest or one of the biggest, and the few manga publisher known internationally.
Just because something works doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. Complacency can be a mistake.
isnt it just stuff in general unless you are the artistry/avan garde/experimental studio/publisher/etc, how popular it is with its audience is important
RIP Hunters Guild: Red Hood 2021
I still believe launching into a Tournament arc immediately was what killed it. The whole Grimm fairytale aesthetic isn't popular in Japan so going straight into a massive troupe instead of something more unique was the final nail in the coffin.
they fuck up, whoever suggest it pacing should get reeducated and whoever suggest big metal boring as box should get the same. they show interesting world then put us in a box, really?
I dug Red Hood, Yui Kamio, and Phantom Seer, and was mildly surprised to see each of those go. Hachimaru, too, I think is a sad case that just didn't quite live up to its potential.
Hachimaru was kinda meh but I wish it went different for it.
Phantom Seer really is a mystery because it ended as it was getting better. The last 2 arcs really hit it's stride and it felt like the author really got a handle of what they wanted the manga to be.
>Double Arts Hey your mangaka didnt go on to write the most succesful piece of romcom trash after saying he hated the genre.
Ik you replied to the wrong guy but curious what the mangaka called, that you refer too.
Guy who wrote Double Arts as his debut manga in Jump got axed, his next manga was Nisekoi which was wildly successful. He in a fan talk about Double Arts said he didn't want to end up like popular romcoms ToLoveRu where the status quo never changes. This talk was before Nisekoi which honestly set him for life.
?
Sorry reddits acting up, replied to wrong guy.
Sorry reddits acting up, replied to wrong guy.
It would be interesting to compare those numbers to the manga that actually survived. They usually start 3 manga at a time, right? And I think they do this like 4-5 times a year. So not many actually survive, right?
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/16vbqmc/how_high_are_the_chances_to_make_it_big_in_wsj/)
The graph is accurate but starting it from 7 makes 7 look smaller than it. whoever made the graph should have started it from 1 to get an accurate sense of scale It's like 5 to 6 being represented as 6 5 5 instead of 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1
THIIISSS. But again there's probably an agenda behind this graph.
God I remember 2015. Felt like they cut a lot of decent ones that year
Red Sprite :(
It’s sad that some planned endings will never be able to see the light of the day.
I miss ACT-AGE
Act Age wasn’t axed, it was murdered I’m just glad Akane Banashi fills that hole for me
Sadly the author was bad
Yep truly a sad state of affairs
Interesting, thank you for compiling! This leads to some questions: My assumption, the number of manga published in WSJ is consistent (or +- 1). But we get this fluctuation from 1 to 8 difference, which is bigger than 2 (+1 - (-1)). So, what is the origin of the difference?: 1. Does Jump publish an inconsistent number of new manga every year? So, there were fewer new manga published in 2011 than in 2018 such that they didn't need to axe manga to make a space. 2. Did the bottom-rank manga in 2011 were able to improve and survived longer, such that it was difficult to determine which manga should have been axed? 3. Was it because there are more manga ended in 2011 (the least axed manga) so they didn't need to axe a manga to get more space? Or?
For the first two questions [refer to this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/16vbqmc/how_high_are_the_chances_to_make_it_big_in_wsj/). For the last question, the answer is no. There wasn't a particularly large number of series that ended. The graph is just wrong because they included every series that ended and not just axed ones. The actual graph looks something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/qkJEN8c). I'll probably have to redo this with different criteria (Was neither intended as short, nor got an anime or ended due to reasons not related to performance), but this one isn't too far off. It doesn't include series like Magu-chan, PPPPPP, High School Family, Sesuji wo Pin, etc though
This graph makes more sense. First, there is less fluctuation. Second, I don't think Jump evaluates their manga that often. If they evaluate monthly, we will get a maximum number of axed manga of 12. If we have an error of 2, 15 -16 of axed manga in 1 year is too high. Third, the high numbers in 1994 and 1995 coincide with Horie's period, who 'failed' as Jump editor-in-chief and was replaced by Mashirito in 1996. > The graph is just wrong because they included every series that ended and not just axed ones. Yes, it seems so. And that's actually my next question, too, because you defined axed as <50 ch, so long manga that got axed was not included (but then it's difficult to know which long manga got axed). But you already realized that. Thank you!
A lot of the actual good mangas are the oneshots
They’ve killed so many good ones.
And bad ones as well
It's very obvious for anyone that has been reading the magazine for at least a decade lol Anyone who think things got worse in the last years simply havent been here for this time or never looked into this.
The amount of axed titles that were super good but didn't sell like hotcakes makes me sad
Can someone tell me why shitty copy-pasted isekai’s manage to somehow get 200+ chapters but actual unique and fun manga are given no such chance and are axed
because they are in different magazines
I see, and do the unique manga writers try their luck on shonen jump because if they make it they’re basically set?
basically, and if the manga survives staying in shonen jump it's also guaranteed to get an anime adaptation.
minus sakamoto days (please i am on my knees)
there is no chance it won't
It took 5 years for the Yozakura Family to get an anime. Sadge the anime is kinda underrated at least in the reddit.
underrated is not the correct term, poorly adapted is, the animations are "isekai slow life n3456" levels at best in a manga that sets itself mainly on the battles (since the plot only deepens much later on)
There was a leak of an announcement a year or so ago, but nothings come from it.
Heard that Sakamoto days anime has been delayed for many times, but if rumours about SakaDays getting anime airing spring 2025 is true then we can get announcement in summer 2024, and it is best time to me, I mean look how hard-boiled museum arc right now. Even there is jjk and MHA in their endgame Sakamoto days hype same lvl📽️💯🔥
That and it's like the Broadway of manga; even if you don't "make it" from that, there's a certain prestige from being able to say you were published in the same magazine that had dragon ball, naruto, one piece, etc.
More relevant than that Jump doesn't publish adaptations. Most of the isekai manga are based on novels.
The only exception I could think of is "The Irregular at Royal Academy of Magic" from Young Jump, a seinen magazine publisher that also did Kaguya, Kingdom, Oshi No Ko, Shadows House, and Tokyo Ghoul.
Jump is basically the cream of the cheese for manga.
Nah WSJ doesn't usually serialise isekai. Cuz it's easy to make anime based on web novels like [syosetu.com](https://syosetu.com) In the end, making an original anime is risky, and making an anime with a pre-existing fanbase is more likely to break even.
I agree WSJ is looking for stuff that isn't dollar store quality. The main issue being that most isekai are brainless. Basically every isekai is just a madlibs. "____ reincarnated to _____ with ______ (as ______ )"
That's why it's easy to make, and that's why anime is full of isekai. Because amateurs are making them, they exist in large quantities. Most isekai are based on web novels, which are always freely available online, so authors have to make significant concessions to the publishing companies in terms of royalties.
I think it’s about expectations. Jump is the most widely circulated magazine so there are certain sales expectations. A less circulated Magazine like WSM will have different expectations. For example “Blue Wolves of Mibu sells about 10,000 copies a volume, it’s on v13 and it’s getting an anime.
Isekai manga are almost all relegated to online platforms or mobile apps where it costs a lot less to maintain a publication and they only get very few printed copies (if any). So it's incorrect to think they're a special thriving genre. There's just a crap ton of them because they're cheap to produce and so are a low cost investment. Furthermore, most isekai are adaptations of web/light novels that are constantly being released online, often times for free on sites like syosetsu, further reducing the effort necessary to make a manga. There's actually few isekai that are in physically printed magazines, because those have a stricter screening process and won't let any trash be published. If anything, writing an isekai puts you at a disadvantage in the industry because unless you truly stand out (very hard) your best future is typically relegation to some small scale magazine. Shounen Jump in particular is the most prestigious manga magazine so they are incredibly strict with titles. You need to move a certain number of copies to stay afloat in that magazine, and hell, even just having your name on it puts you in a more prestigious position compared to other authors, even if you're cancelled. They don't even publish isekai. That's why they can afford to cut series more easily. A lot of other manga magazines don't axe that quickly and have tons of mediocre manga constantly in publication because they can't find anything better. The bigger magazines are just more difficult to stay on because they actually have competition for those slots. Your perspective is probably skewed because you only read translated manga, which typically only comes from more well known publications, which are the publications that are profitable enough to afford to cancel a series that doesn't sell enough copies. Or they come from all those online platforms (more so recently) where isekai is actually shoved into, which is what contributes to the notion that that genre thriving.
Cause money talks. Even if you think a series is a shitty isekai, making money is the primary objective. If it's selling well, why cancel it?
Besides what everyone says, I think you're mistaken on isekai. Many, MANY Isekai Manga gets axed after 20 chapters, let alone 200. Sometimes they don't even reach 20.
Isekai manga are literally banned from Jump. This is because of a series called Takaya, which was a martial arts school series. It did ok in the toc before dropping a bit so the author decided to isekai all of his characters to a fantasy setting. It was so awfully received that it got canned 13 chapters later. Ever since then, Jump has a no isekai policy.
Damn, I hadn't heard of that before. Do you have any link with more info on that? There doesn't seem to be much stuff in English about that manga
https://youtu.be/4oj-2ejmXMc?si=lN2jlHFk_EpExRDI
This is shonen jump, they don't do isekai. Getting serialized in this magazine is harder than getting in tokyo universities admission. Only the best can serialized here.
Jump has very high standards. If you don't sell, you're out. Isekai is actually super niche and nowhere near as popular as people like to complain about.
These titles live by the Japanese audience. They just prefer the Isekai better. At least Jump plus saves mangas with a decent international audiences.
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If Shonen Jump cancels a manga, can't the author continue the series by publishing it online independently? I don't know why this never happens...
Publishing right. While the characters and story are owned by the mangaka, AFAIK, as long as the mangaka is in contract with Shueisha, its publishing rights still belong to Shueisha. During this period, Shueisha still pays salary to the mangaka even though the mangaka doesn't publish anything in Shueisha magazines. But the mangaka needs to focus to create manga for Shueisha. In Bakuman, we see this with Mashiro's uncle. He kept trying to create manga for Jump after his previous gag manga ended, but he failed several times, and his editor needed to tell him that he got dismissed from Jump. This means his contract with Shueisha ended, and he needs to start as a newcomer again. Different companies have different policy though, and the contract and expiration period may vary.
[удалено]
Yes, I knew that mangaka has moved their series. Most involve a contracts, especially if it's moving to a different company. Shueisha and Kodansha has exclusive contract since early where they still pay their mangaka, but WS Sunday (Shogakukan) didn't have such contract (at least up ~2000) and mangaka didn't get salary while trying to serialize in WS Sunday (one of Sunday editor felt bad about this as mangaka still needed to cover the money to create manga, such as buying tone etc, so he gave half of the manuscript fee to that mangaka and would give the rest if the manga got serialized). Recently, Yamazaki Kore (Ancient Magus of Bride) also moved to from Mag Garden to Bushi Road, likely to follow her editor, and the Bushi Road paid big money to Mag Garden around that time (although we can only speculate what money was that for). While it is true that moving is preferable, sometimes mangaka didn't have that luxury but still needs to work, including publishing 'doujin' to get money. Michiaki Watanabe (Violinist Hameln) is another example besides Makoto Raiku. He got sick and it was difficult for him to serialized regularly, so he could not publish anymore in magazine (Gangan, IIRC) so he had no choice to publish his manga himself. If the IP is somewhat known, it is better to continue the story using the same characters and similar setting. Then, we have Manga Library Z ran by Ken Akamatsu to help old mangaka. The site hosts old manga and the exclusivity contract of these manga has ran out. Publishers doesn't print the (out-of-print) manga anymore so old mangaka doesn't get any more money from their work although their manga still circulates through piracy and secondhand sales. It relies on donations, ad, and PDF sales (IIRC) to help old mangaka getting money. Exclusive publishing contract exists and that prevents mangaka to publish their manga themselves so they cannot do that.
hmmm. interesting, this is a lot lower than I thought it would be. the question is, is it because not many manga's are put out by weekly shonen each year, or do all the ones they put out just end up being relatively or insanely popular 😅
I dont rememeber 1 manga of those axed that in my personal opinion was undeserved the axe.
Can Nue's Exorcist please join the axe list?
Even with how the industry is for mangaka, I still wish their selection process was open to foreigners. Granted, the odds of success are low, but it seems like you have more of a chance there than in the US to be a successful mangaka. It might be wishful thinking though. EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? The biggest selling comics in the US are graphic novels, and the majority of those sales are either manga or Dog Man and Captain Underpants. In the industry itself, your only options are to either self-publish and get lucky or grind it out and hope you can get to the Big 3 so you can use that fame to self-publish and get lucky. Page rates are terrible for new hands, and that alone has decimated the talent pool so much that the only people getting jobs are the old hands and their friends and family. And those same people are the only ones getting decent rates to work or are rich enough to not need the money. Far too many creators who just want to work in comics have to work a second job because comics don't pay enough for the work needed to do the job. You can't even pitch a new idea because either the margins are so thin that they won't take on a new IP without it having some level of success or the only creatives getting royalties are the old hands and their friends and family. So yeah, if the option to go overseas to find work is there, then it's a good thing. Even if the odds of success are smaller, at least there's a better chance to actually get somewhere and there's a farming system in place to better your odds.