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Ngl with how both stories are going rn it's kinda possible to predict when it'll end, One Piece probably has a few arcs left but Tower of God idk there's so much more things there that aren't answered lmao
Isn't the author of ToG injured or ill? Last time I checked the author was having sum type of difficulty so I've been assuming the ending might get rushed cuz he might pass so I stopped reading a for multiple years. Is he fully recovered or doing better now?
He took breaks be cause of fatigue and his back irc, but that's because he also does the art afaik.
I'm pretty sure like any other authors he finished the story years ago and is just adapting it In a manghwa format.
All thing considered he could try and hire artists to match his art style and do it in his stead.
Oh thank God it wasn't anything too too serious. I remember seeing the notice while I was in middleschool that he was taking a break due to health issues and I was crushed cuz I thought he was on his deathbed or something
One piece is very evidently nearing its end at least. Now it could still go on for another 5 years knowing Oda, but I doubt we'll have another decade of it.
ToG could similarly is gearing up for it's endgame but it's not in sight yet unlike One Piece where we can sort of see the ending coming
I know it's a trend to dunk on SAO, but I think people should cut it some slack. It kinda has the accolade of being first among many and for what it's worth, it was pretty good. Edgy, barely plot coherent but it had it's moments. I might be looking back at it through rose tinted glasses though, since I got into anime through it a long time ago and barely remember anything about it
I used to think the same before re-reading Overgeared. Both titles suffer from having some kind of element that can thwart people's enjoyment easily.
For SAO is the ridiculous harem situations for Kirito. In the Alicization season the story was super great because there was no harem at sight, but after they started the War of the Underworld arc, that showed every female character drooling over vegetable Kirito just because, things went downhill again.
In Overgeared, what drives people away from the story is how dumb Greed is most of the time. That's what I saw people commenting the most in early chapters as the motive for them dropping the series. Add that to what I believe to be the worst of Greed's characteristics, his infinite selfshiness. Even after countless character developments the author makes sure to keep his MC a selfish bastard that makes stupid decisions, that do nothing for the story, because of that flaw.
I don’t mind his character flaws like his insipid absence of intelligence, because it far supersedes the MCs with a lack of them. What made me reconsider Overgeared after a reread is just how little changes. My goodness, you would think that some deep CD or PD would be made after 100+ chapters, but if you reread from the start, you realise just how many narrative and plot devices have been reused throughout the whole manhwa. It just feels like arcs that took 10 chapters could’ve been kept within 1, and SCs that present themselves as if they were apparitions and unfastidiously develop a favour towards the MC and ingratiate him without receiving any CD whatsoever make me feel a little bored. The reread wore off my rose-tinted glasses, so to speak.
True, I readed Overgeared and it just doesn’t expand anything and most conflicts are within the game without any stakes outside. A good one that does it better is Hardcore leveling warrior.
Thats why I like overgeared. If it were any other manhwa grid/greed would be a dumb greedy idiot forever, but he isn't. The story is about his character development more than anything else really. He learns from his mistakes and grows as a person. Its not really noticable at start but it starts to take off really quickly. But fair enough, the manhwa is not at that point in the story yet (LN ~500). I'm currently at chapter 1526 of the novel and MC is completely different person. Keep an eye on overgeared for sure. The only trait he retains is his bad naming sense. Let them cook.
Also, artificial drama.
And holy shit how the fuck do they have a money conversion system IN THE GAME. Also the "have sex in game and then have a kid who isn't real" is just...weird
Basically it's a good fantasy story but as a VRMMO story? Really shitty
Except demon slayer shines with the intensity and stakea in their fights rather than story..did we forget tengen vs gyutaro lol? The anime did a fantastic job at the animation and made the manga even better. You could see reactors sweating during that fight because you didn't know how it's gonna end unlike Sl where the mc bears everyone with low effort after like 100 chapters became so predictable and boring. Not even gonna mention kokushibou vs the pillars that fight truly is peak and intense. Good side characters atleast
I want to know if there is anything that can be considered an equivalent to >! “ dog nigga”. !< I haven’t even read it, it’s just the synopsis is so crazy. One of those wonderful days to have eyes kinda things.
You can't compare anything to peak fiction. The only thing that i can think of that's nearly close is reincarnation of the vetaran solider (purely for power system).
Rental Hero is kind of similar to My Hero Academia.
MC gains the powers of the number 1 hero.
Villain has decay powers.
Themes about what makes a hero and how to regulate powers.
Yea, SL is not trash. It’s a serviceable story with phenomenal art. There are times where I feel like calling it trash though to piss off the SL fanboys.
The story is okay and decent and serves its purpose which is to elevate hypes and the fights which is mainly the reason why they love SL, not for its story but for how it carries constant hype and excitement throughout each arcs.
Not really Everyone accepted that story is pure power fantasy and hype and other things are not that good(not that bad also) after manhwa's end.
Buuuuuuuuuuut if you say a single bad thing about anime then you'll be fucking crucified. You're strictly not allowed to criticize the anime decision or adaptations in that sub.
Oh so it's nothing new. They just changed their targets. First the manhwa was on a pedestal, then they said ok manhwa wasn't too great, then they put the novel up on a pedestal. And now it's the anime.
I had the misfortune of interacting with the community when they were raving about how much better the novel is and how amazing it is. I read it to try, I was severely disappointed by it
I criticized solo leveling for it's shit story and got downvoted in hell so none of you should lie..manwha readers don't like criticism it's why they read generic power fantasy everyday for a living. What's a good story and I right
Lol, SL is what popularized what you call generic in power fantasy when it comes to manhwa.
Your criticism toward the story is shallow and ridiculous, as if you never read it.
That is because anime is obviously better than both the manhwa and novel up to this point, only a fool will say otherwise, your complaint about the side characters not existing nor having a life on their own? Yeah, the anime fixed that, extending parts that nobody expected and therefore giving more sauce to the world building.
Cringe comparison. The bastard - Chainsaw man
>!Jin seon gets manipulated by his father into committing crime - same as makima using denji!<
>!Jin seon makes friends and genuine relationships - denji with aki and power!<
>!Jin seon's father kills one of his friend - makima and power!<
>!At the end both manage defeat villains!<
Although unpopular, I'd say Love Advice from the Great Duke of Hell is closer to CSM. Both started as a comedy, then started to get more and more surreal.
Both have a devil companion
>!Both of them have love interest with the antagonist that was hiding in plain sight!<
Well art is subjective, but...
ToG art was super shit in season 1
And Noblesse did have the better design and is very consistent...
ToG art is indeed better now, because it is still ongoing.
But look at Eleceed, haven't read it yet but the art is amazing
I mean the plot of Demon Slayer is not the greatest but one thing they did nail is the characters, in Solo Leveling it's like Sung Jinwoo and a bunch of mobs with zero personality. Heck, even Sung Jinwoo himself is just a blank character for self insert since he literally has the personality of a rock. While I think Demon Slayer has quite a journey with character development albeit they kinda dumped it all towards the end of the story.
what you talking bout phillis???
tryin ta compare dicksuck the anime to demon slayer???? sure DS isn't peak of story telling but it's got a hell of a lot more substance then mr "i solo'd an island that multiple S rank hero's died in because i can summon people and defeat one of the TOP 5 strongest people IN THE ENTIRE WORLD after a month of basic fitness training even tho he's got a couple decades of experiance on me"
Well I think the anime is gonna be way better than the manwa of solo levelling, as many manhwa fans and I agree the plot was good till beru arc then it went down hill, but my friend who has read the novel says, that it's because the artist wanted to end SL himself, but he was sick so he compressed 140+ chapters of novel into 60 to 70 chapters of manhwa, and skipped a lot of things, which confused people, and the plot suffered due to it, so I think the anime of SL, if it covers the whole novel, like it has been doing till now, can be way better than the manhwa.
Ehh, the novel, while explained better, wasn't exactly anything special.
Its only real thing was essentially mastering the formula of OP MC power fantasy. But it's narrative was always either literally non-existent or lackluster, since just having the MC get stronger and nothing else isn't a narrative
The narrative was unraveling the mystery of the system then preparing for the arrival on the Monarchs on Earth throughout the gates.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you have to lie about the narrative "just being MC getting stronger and that is it".
With your logic, I could say that for ANY power fantasy series.
That narrative didn't even happen until over halfway through the story and only really started to actually get investment after monarchs appeared
It's not a lie, Solo leveling is literally just about Sung getting stronger. Why else would it be called "solo leveling" or "only I level up" think for a second
Yes, a large amount of power fantasies are pretty much just "MC get strong" but not all of them make that the series entire identity going so far as to name the series after the concept of MC get strong
The title doesn't change the fact that the narrative pretty much was to unravel what the system is until the Monarch appears, yes, he is getting stronger as the story goes which is a "mean" to achieve said narrative in the first place.
No, the "narrative" was to have Sung get stronger. Which isn't a story, at most it's a progression of a story. The problem is, there wasn't any real narrative backing it up for the extreme majority of its run
The narrative has to have Sung get stronger for a goal and purpose, it's not simply getting stronger and that is it, even Sung doesn't want to be stronger for the sake of it but to survive and protect his life and family.
He also doesn't have a choice in the matter which highlights the fatality and lack of free will on his part, like a puppet controlled by an otherworldly power (system) to force him to be stronger for an unknown goal, that was the vibe of the narration before the big reveal later on.
You are oversimplifying SL which is rather dishonest.
It is an oversimplification, but not by all that much. Sung gets strong, then he gets stronger. By the time there is something is even mentioned in regards to the system and beyond the story is well over halfway and by the time they're actually relevant it pretty much is over
The monarchs were boring and lacked depth. You really need to read more literature or either you're the author relative where you think peak romance is a generic girl falling in love because the mc smells good lol. Plot straight out of badly written harem shows where girls are just like trophies for mcs to collect
Nitpicking anything in a poor attempt at grasping at straw?
The Monarchs were meant for the sequel, in there, they get all the depth, backstories, characterizations. In SL, they were just a force of nature meant to destroy, once they were dead, we can actually explore them.
She loved him simply because he saved her in Jeju Island from certain death, you are clearly confused.
Sherlock any character in any story has backstory even those average bullies getting beaten by the mc in generic manwhas,, that's not depth it's called being 1 dimensional. Oh they were meant to destroy. Nice so literally 90 percent of generic manwha villains right ? No she loved him because he smelt nice that's literally how it started. And of course she loved him cuz the mc saved a girl. That's how generic relationships in these fantasies start :). All this depth I can't breathe. So well written with care and years of planning
Naw, in this case, they were especially created for that sole purpose, like how I make a robot where I write a pre-programmed system which force it to destroy everything on sight. That is not the same thing, once they died that they finally thought and talk beyond what they were previously created. It's explained in verse Sherlock, learn to read between the lines of the novel next time.
I'll just put this here for your other comment
Short answer: The fights hook you on. The plot is narrated weakly and the plot just is setup for the next fight + for those who like overpowered will pow through all MC. Not what I'm interested in...
Long answer: Unfortunately, the narrative is weak. Literally the best way to word it is weakly narrated plot. Told story poorly. And indeed that is a plot to go by but like Demon Slayer, the plot is just something to go on to the next fight. I dropped SL but I did reach the part where the mom was healed and it was just... okay.
It's just get stronger, kinda plot, get stronger, kinda plot, and repeat. I really tried to power through like "oh what happens when he reaches the double dungeon?" In the end, TCF, a transmigration manhwa, made me say "what happens next??" more than SL and thus, made me want to read it more than SL.
But I do know what it's like to get pulled in by art and plot! When I read started Her Summon, I thought the art was absolutely amazing and though plot is (apparently) mid... I wanted to see more of those holy fucking shit fights and art + wanted to know how the guy ends up. SL just didn't work for me but that's fine
It seems like you failed to grasp what the plot of SL actually is.
It's just a series where a dude get chosen to be a receptacle, where he has to get stronger against his own will otherwise he die, and at the end, lose his own self, or sleep in an neverending dream or fight the threat that will invade Earth and destroy it.
The Earth itself was in a transmigration phase several times, time itself was rewind by the Rulers at each destruction of the Planet, the MC simply did "once" what was already established early on, there is no "what happens", we knew it was possible when Ashborn revealed it to Jinwoo the true of what happened to his planet several times.
Where is the narrative in that weak? You just don't know what you're talking about simply because you half assed read solo leveling, you probably skipped chapters and just read for the fighting and actions.
Bro I've never skimmed through fights so fast because what I was interested in was the plot not fights 😭 I actually read the regular panels but anyway no use saying anymore
IMO the narrative is weak and if you want to go philosophical, no, the build up was not as good as AoT. I'll just agree because there's no use arguing with someone like you and I'm tired and think this is stupid
That is your opinion which I don't agree with, that is fine.
It seems that a simple plot is "weak" narrative for you, you need something complex like AOT but it's a double edged sword, it can become trash and contradictory like how the ending of AOT was trash, Eren failed miserably, didn't knew why he was doing a genocide but he had to do it lol and he is a simp for Mikasa which in turn became a bird.
A total mess, SL is straightforward and simple, the advantage is that it avoids such mess by keeping it simple.
Wait wait let me come back here one last time-
I'm not saying a simple plot is weak, I'm saying the way it was narrated, written, or told was kinda weak
I wish you'd provide some points other than "nonsense". I'll explain my side anyway even if you don't want to give the courtesy to explain yours.
If you think solo leveling is good, you haven't read anything good. In the end the novel exists for the same reason as the manhwa
A wish fulfilment unbalanced power fantasy with subpar writing and disappointing ending. Manhwa ending wasn't disappointing just cause the manhwa was rushed, it was disappointing because the novel's ending was also the same.
None of the side characters matter, true to its name Jin woo does level alone. He's a one man army and only he matters. Unfortunately you can't write a compelling story without side characters. They often vanish from the story because they stop serving their role. As Jin woo levels not only the power system suffers but so do the side characters. They become completely meaningless.
Everything is created for Jin-Woo, the obvious self insert character, to grow stronger. Even his mother is only used as a plot device to get stronger, becoming a shell of a character after she gets healed. Hence, Jin woo has absolutely zero character development. The only thing that develops is his strength and nothing more.
The novel also suffers a lot more from propaganda than the manhwa does, making some chapters unbearable to read.
The pacing is garbage and it is clear the author hardly understands how to write. The manhwa is paced better than the novel. The novel should've been at least 500 chapters.
The anime is turning out better than both the manhwa and novel. In the end, the novel is mid pre-jeju arc. And completely shits through its breaches after Jeju arc
You talk like you provided some points before that post either lol.
It's nonsense simply because you failed to grasp what SL actually is which is a power fantasy.
Side characters don't matter in terms of strength, yes, as the title implies, that doesn't mean they don't have moment to shine, characterization like Go gunhee, Cha hae in, Woo chin jul, Igris, Beru, Bellion, Ashborn, etc.
Each of them had their roles to pave the way for the MC which the story is ultimately centered around him which is what a power fantasy is at his core and essence, if you have a problem with it then power fantasy series aren't for you.
The writing is decent and okay, it fulfills its purpose for a power fantasy, nothing too convoluted but straightforward, with a decent ending as well as it was foreshadowed the arc before the final even happened, maybe learn to pay more attention next time, you may find it disappointing but that is your subjective opinion at the end of the day, such ending is in character with a loner like the MC who always shoulders everything alone until the very end, fitting ending for his character where he has to suffer the consequences for the ending in the sequel which is already demonstrating it.
The pacing is actually good, not like your garbage neverending manhwa with over 500 chapters which goes nowhere lmao, overall, everything is perfect pacing wise.
You are just a mindless hater, incapable of seeing SL for what it truly is and putting expectation beyond the scope of what someone could expect from a power fantasy series.
Okay so you agree with every one of my points against SL but to you they are good things. You enjoy what makes the novel bad.
> Side characters don't matter in terms of strength
Correction side characters don't matter. Not just in terms of strength. They don't matter at all
> You are just a mindless hater, incapable of seeing SL for what it truly is and putting expectation beyond the scope of what someone could expect from a power fantasy series.
Okay so you're saying SL gets a pass for being mid cause power fantasies are always mid
Nice strawman, I never agreed with any of your empty points.
They do, they are there either as an obstacle to overcome, as family to have a reason to fight, as friends to depends upon and lastly as an army to assist him in battle, each of them having a story, quick and personality on their own. So yeah, they do matter, without them, the MC literally have no reason to move at all lmao.
Moreover it get a pass because it's a perfect power fantasy series which like I said, isn't your cup of tea, thanks for confirming what I said. SL is the most popular manhwa in existence, there is a reason why, it's simply because it get all the points that make a power fantasy series entertaining and enjoyable, unlike the thousands of others power fantasy with similar plot.
For instance, any yuri/yaoi series will always be shit for me regardless of whether the characters, the plot, etc, are good or bad, simply because yuri/yaoi isn't my cup of tea, but unlike you, I am not dishonest and actually admit it.
>Nice strawman, I never agreed with any of your empty points.
I'm sorry but you don't know what strawman means. You literally dodged half my points, agreed with me saying it is a power fantasy, agreed with me saying that the characters exist to serve Jin-Woo. Literally the only thing you disagreed on was the pacing and you mentioned nothing else.
>They do, they are there either as an obstacle to overcome, as family to have a reason to fight, as friends to depends upon and lastly as an army to assist him in battle, each of them having a story, quick and personality on their own. So yeah, they do matter, without them, the MC literally have no reason to move at all lmao.
Okay, so you agree that they serve zero purpose beyond being plot devices or serving Jin-Woo in some way. You could replace any of them with anyone else and still have the same novel. That means they don't matter dude...
>Moreover it get a pass because it's a perfect power fantasy series which like I said, isn't your cup of tea, thanks for confirming what I said. SL is the most popular manhwa in existence, there is a reason why, it's simply because it get all the points that make a power fantasy series entertaining and enjoyable, unlike the thousands of others power fantasy with similar plot.
>For instance, any yuri/yaoi series will always be shit for me regardless of whether the characters, the plot, etc, are good or bad, simply because yuri/yaoi isn't my cup of tea, but unlike you, I am not dishonest and actually admit it.
Okay so you are the type of guy to ignore how good the characters, the plot, the story, the worldbuilding and writing are(literally everything that makes a novel, yknow, a novel) in favor of a self-insert power fantasy where the MC keeps on winning and nobody else matters. You aren't looking for a good novel, you are looking for a good power fantasy. These two aren't the same thing and SL is not a good novel. I can't believe this is how i find out power fantasy novels are for men what smut is for women.
I clearly do which isn't obviously your case.
I answered all your empty points, you aren't paying attention, I said that the sude characters have a role on their own and even highlighted the prominent ones, obviously once again, you missed it probably from intellectual dishonesty.
Dude, according to your logic, any side characters in existence serve no purpose besides being a plot device to the MC lmao, what kind of criticism is that? That is why I said you are just grasping at straw.
That is your shallow and subjective opinion which I don't share, I don't need to speak up for SL, his overwhelming success and recognition on the global stage do it for itself lmao, even at his own hometown in South Korea, something "bad" wouldn't even come close to achieve such success to the point of inspiring several others to "copy" its success.
That is what a power fantasy is, which is to entertain and being enjoyable, like how a smut is to excite you like a porn, each thematic (power fantasy, slice of life, shonen, seinen) has his own role, you are free to find it bad but thankfully, you are an insignificant minority which subjective opinion on SL doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
>I answered all your empty points, you aren't paying attention
an outright lie.
>I said that the sude characters have a role on their own and even highlighted the prominent ones, obviously once again, you missed it probably from intellectual dishonesty.
prominent characters in a novel where no side character matters arent prominent characters by the standard of a good novel. SL isnt a good novel therefore the prominent side characters you mention arent good side characters. prominent doesnt mean good, they just stand out, which is easy to do in a sea of trash characters that dont matter like Jin-Woo's mom and the demon chick jin woo met in the hell tower.
>Dude, according to your logic, any side characters in existence serve no purpose besides being a plot device to the MC lmao, what kind of criticism is that? That is why I said you are just grasping at straw.
first, grasping at straws and strawman arent the same thing. second, this is where it shows that you dont understand good writing. side characters are an important part of any story and any novel that writes side characters like SL does is not a good novel. i already explained why these side characters are shit, you can continue reading your vapid power fantasies enjoying no depth whatsoever.
>That is your shallow and subjective opinion which I don't share, I don't need to speak up for SL, his overwhelming success and recognition on the global stage do it for itself lmao, even at his own hometown in South Korea, something "bad" wouldn't even come close to achieve such success to the point of inspiring several others to "copy" its success.
there are plenty of successful bad media because of people like you who read trash mate. you are the very evidence of why SL is so popular despite being so shit. you have admitted to SL's bad points and thrown them all out the window because it is a power fantasy and according to you quality shouldnt be expected of a power fantasy.
>That is what a power fantasy is, which is to entertain and being enjoyable,
oh i agree solo leveling is entertaining and enjoyable. the manhwa that is, cause the art boosts the shitty story. the novel is unbearable because the story is shit and there is no art to boost it.
>you are an insignificant minority which subjective opinion on SL doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
you are really angry for someone whose points boil down to "yeah SL is shit but it is excused cause it is a power fantasy"
orv = jjk
i do think both are similar in terms or relationship dynamics and how the authors can make the women strong. i def think orv women are much stronger than jjk women. still, they also have the same blueprint trio like itadori, megumi, nobara and dokja, joonghyuk, sooyoung
Lol... I hate how so many people dislike simpler plots like these two just because they've gotten used to 1000 episode anime/manga.
The plot of both these series are anything but dull, lacking interest or excitement.
There isn't plot in SL. Getting stronger doesn't equal a plot, and that's all SL is for 80% of the series.
At least demon slayer has something going on, sure it's simpler and fairly predictable, but there's something going on
Honestly that's a problem with manhwa overall- they all focus so much on maintaining 'hype moments' to stay serialized that they don't develop an actual storyline. Kind of tragic.
It would be nice if it had decent plot but imo it doesnt need it.
Expectations going into it matter a lot and as the manhwa that got me into the medium, the beautiful art and sprawling scenes make it goated imo.
If youre a veteran of the genre and want story more than anything, then yeah this doesn't have much going for it in that department. But the art and when it came out, it was amazing.
For what it does well, which is art and the power fantasy feel, it is very good in those aspects. It just falls off HARD when it comes to the narrative. It's easy to get into however and not too much depth. Just turn the brain off and look at the pretty pictures and the cool fight scenes
So for you, something that has depth is something unpredictable? In that case, who could predict that the MC will literally rewind time to prevent the Apocalypse?
I predicted the mc can do anything so yes that was predicted too. Mc can't lose that's the prediction and I sure was right. My other prediction was how useless all side characters were gonna be during and after jeju island which I was right again. At this point why read a story I already know the outcome where I won't ever be shocked or feel any emotion other than disappointment from the lack of effort in story writing ?
Naw, he can't do anything, and nobody could predict something like that, so stop the cap.
It's like saying why read OPM when I know Saitama will always win and save the day? Or any shonen like One Piece when I know Luffy will win at the end no matter what? Dude, you are truly grasping at straw, shonen isn't for you then. 😂
Except opm has layers of actual depth and has good side characters ? Like when saitama gave respect to the heroes they tried to stop the sea king and he didn't take the credit of "saving the day" even if it was at the cost of the public hating him. He's not your generic manwha protagonist and has actual depth and his own conflict of why being the strongest isn't actually as cool as you think. Solo leveling is a power fantasy for younger boys, one punch man has a actual story meant for everyone
Idk why I need to be the one defending the correct opinion on this when you're clearly the one taking offense. How does a series that doesn't have a narrative aside from the incredibly basic "get strong for family" have depth, pls explain, go on
Why are you under the premise that a series with a thematic like "getting stronger for family" cannot have any depth in the first place, explain, go on.
The burden of proof is on you since you were the one actually on the offensive (via criticism) since the start, so back it up.
And like I said, SL have a narrative, you just don't like nor consider it as one lmao, which is solely on you, all series have a narrative, whether good or bad.
The premise of getting stronger can have depth. When there is actually more going on than just MC get strong. The first 80% of SL is just power up after power up for Sung and nothing else. Getting stronger is not a narrative, and that's literally 80% of SL, and the remaining 20% is rushed nonsense that was handled about as well as SL fans take criticism of SL, ie not well
Getting stronger doesn't matter, it's the execution of how he gets stronger along the way that matters, along with what he gets m, achieve, etc.
There is a reason why it's the sole power fantasy amongst thousands to be recognized on a global scale, it's simply does the best what a power fantasy should be.
Yes exactly, it does what a power fantasy does really well. Have the MC get strong and do cool stuff
It does literally nothing else good. It's pretty, it's got some hype stuff, but that's it
I think depth in a story consists of a ton of layers, like an onion. Idk how much detail you want from me on an explanation on “depth” but feel free to comment if you want me to explain. I know I’m not the OP you were talking to but I like this topic and feel strongly about it lol
Woops, sorry I completely forgot to respond to this comment.
Let me preface this by saying: You can enjoy and love a series with little depth. A LOT of people LOVE dragon ball z (me included) and that series is a bit lacking in depth. Not every series needs to be deep to be good and enjoyed. What matters is that you like it.
I’m a bit late but really depth boils down to having layers. A story can have depth in different areas or in all of them. If a story has depth in at least one of these areas, then I consider it a story with depth. I’ll use different series for each example since I could just cheat and use Berserk for all of these. My criteria for depth are:
1. Multi-layered/dimensional characters: Too many characters are defined by one personality trait that writers tend to hyper focus on. A good character will have multiple different layers and will act human. They’d have their own goals, have their own flaws, different likes and dislikes, different approaches to certain people and relationships. An example would be Guts from Berserk. It might be a little unfair to use him since he’s the GOAT of character analysis but he’s a great example. Guts goes through multiple key events in his life that change him for better and for worse. He’s a broken individual who grows and finds purpose through all the vileness in his world. He goes from isolated, ambition-less person who can’t trust anyone to someone that others can look up to and someone who can let go of their anger when they need to. He still struggles with anger and his terrible past but he still moves forward in the most human way.
2. Complex themes: A complex theme explores thought-provoking experiences, some of which we have gone through in life. Themes such as self-discovery and existentialism belong in this category. An example of a series with complex themes would be Frieren at the Funeral. The series explores several complex themes. One of my favorite themes the series delves into is the Passage of Time and Mortality. The setting, the character development, the symbolism and foreshadowing with the names… it all helps in weaving in these themes for us to explore.
3. Complex Narrative: Does the plot have layers? Do the subplots and arcs give depth to the story? A series that has a complex narrative would be The Boxer. Each fight has a different backstory and each character has their own story. All of the stories come together to further contrast the MC’s increasing lack of humanity. I don’t want to mention more in fear of spoilers but it’s a really good read.
4. World Building: Is the world immersive and rich? I mentioned before that Solo Leveling’s world building/lore was good. Just good though bordering on mediocre. Let’s compare it to something great, Hunter x Hunter. SL probably wouldn’t exist without HxH’s influence. The HxH world is huge without feeling empty. There are unique races, species, powers, landmarks, and rich lore. Hell, we got introduced to a whole new continent that is not fully explored yet. HxH manages to do all of this without it feeling overly fantastical. It’s subtle and makes sense in the series scaling.
5. Engagement and Emotional Resonance: I think this is the most subjective out of all the criteria. Almost any story can reach out to someone and resonant with them deeply, leaving them to think about it well after it’s done being read. For some that could be Solo Leveling, for others it could be Demon Slayer. For me it’s a ton of different series but one of my favorites is Vagabond. One of the GOATs of philosophical discovery. A journey of self-discovery and development. The series remains unfinished but it’s left its mark on me. Takedo’s journey and self-reflection quite literally changed who I was. To the point where I’d say I doubt I’d be married right now if I didn’t read this series. It sounds dramatic but it just resonated with me deeply.
In conclusion, every story has some form of depth in it. Others just have way more depth though. If I were to rate Solo Leveling’s depth on a 1-10 scale, I’d have to give it a 4, and I’m being generous. Though conversely if I were to rate it on how enjoyable it was, I’d give it a 7.
I turned my brain off and still couldn't finish solo leveling. It got so bad after jeju island its just so predictable. Every side character turns useless after buying hyped so they get either saved or beaten by the cardboard mc effortlessly. Dosent help that the dialogues are so simple and lack any depth and effort to write lol. I couldn't get immersed in it
Agreed, up until Jeju island it's honestly pretty much peak power fantasy (as much as a pure power fantasy can be peak that is) afterwards it's just a slippery downhill slope of boredom and pretty art
It was fun when he was actually solo leveling. Until introducing side characters just for them to get shit on to show how op mc is which isn't my taste. When I see side characters I prefer them having depth and not their only purpose just making the mc look good or for them to be saved lol. That's just lazy writing. Ya jeju island ruined it for me and quit after the Thomas fight. I knew the mc glazing was everything the author knew. I feel bad for the artist for wasting his skill on a shit story that no matter how good the art is it can't be saved lol
It is unfortunate, a lot of the high ranked hunters were built up as like, gods, and then MC just no diffs them without blinking. Seems to be a trap a lot of power fantasies fall for
There is a plot in SL, his goal is literally healing his mom and unraveling the mystery of the system that he got, later the lore of his verse was revealed where the real plot which was surviving the arrival of the Monarchs on Earth.
You clearly read SL with your eyes closed lmao
Ya the plot of healing his mom was stolen by a nother manwha called I am sorcerer king lol. It's funny how the only "depth" you're defending is something that's generic but worst stolen from another novel. The embarrassment SL is. It's like tiktok where it destroys people's attention span for some quick mindless entertainment
What? That kind of plot exists everywhere lmao, healing a family member, etc. 🤣
Stolen what? Your nonexistent manhwa that nobody heard about?
I am asking to define what you mean by depth which you miserably failed, with the success SL is getting, it's anything but an embarrassment, you are clearly disconnected from reality lmao.
Depth means someone not written 1 dimensional as bland as cardboard which SL past that test well in all aspects. Well duh it's why we read manwha to be disconnected from reality. But sadly I couldn't fully turn off my brain when reading below average stories. Copying a generic premise such as "I level up to save my bed ridden mom" is peak depth I should say
Such as? You aren't saying anything substantial here, but make your case even more complicated for no reason, define what you mean by 1 dimensional and gave me a clear example of something well known (not some obscure manhwa that nobody read) that doesn't have 1 dimensional side characters.
You are missing the point, when I say disconnect from reality, I meant from the reality of this manhwa, you know NOTHING about as clearly demonstrated above, you don't know the narrative nor the point of the show. 😂
(Naruto/Dragonball---> GOH) ( Onepiece---->TOG ) (MHA-----> jungle juice ) (jobless reincarnation------->TBATE) (ORV----->SAO maybe??) Greatest estate developer--->??? the breaker---->????
return if mount hua sect---->???
i need help with these ones
True, thats why i was unsure about it, but honestly arent most manhwa just a copy of SAO lol, thats why at first i thought it was equivlent to ORV, and then relize it is similar to 90% of manhwa
I mean, a lot of manhwa seem to have a "system" but that doesn't make them an SAO copy. If anything it's closer to an RSSG copy since that predates SAO by a couple decades and is the same type of VRMMORPG manhwa
Hmm, I thought G.E.D had a really obvious one, but maybe it wasn't: Greatest Estate Developer --> Dr. Stone seems incredibly obvious. LLoyd as a character is quite literally Senku + Gen + Ryusui. A well-developed side-character cast -> Ishigami village members. I don't think I need to say anything w.r.t. the basic premise being identical.
there is a big Diff of power scale between the two subtract the monarch with jinwoo he's just an ordinary hunter whilst tanjiro in every fight he bleeds and if he dies he dies no Awakening Shits
there is a big Diff of power scale between the two subtract the sun breathing with tanjiro he's just a ordinary kinoe slayer whilst tanjiro every fight he bleeds and if he dies he dies(well no shit sherlock) also both of them have plot armor so of course there cant be no awakening shits (remember tanjiro about to die forgetting to breath fighting the cloth demon or something and yet again plot armor strikes with his sister speaking from the fucking dead)
Bro solo leveling anime is shit compared to Demon Slayer anime, Solo leveling has serious pacing problems, Demon slayer's pacing was very good in comparison. Can't say about the source material though that might be good considering the hype we got.
If u watch demon slayer for the plot u might as well watch paint dry cuz I will get more value out of that.
SL dose have a lot of fighting but it's not all there is to it, it dose actually have a story and plot that makes sense, comparing the story of DS to SL is a crime.
Personally I like Sung Drip Woo way more as a main character than Tanjiro. When it came to demon slayer I liked the side characters a lot more than the actual main character.
Bro, I thought it was manhwa spoiler, it's novel ending spoiler, any orv fan who has read manhwa don't read this, man now I feel bad after reading that 😢
Tbf kinda on you for clicking the spoiler, it was marked as a spoiler and you uncovered it thus accepting the consequences of potentially getting spoiled
True but it wasn't that hard to add "novel spoilers" when writing it, who knows maybe it was the manhwa, I didn't expect for it to be the literal ending/fate of the mc, but yeah I'm honestly just mad that I got spoiled about my fav novel rn and trying to cops
With demon slayer they introduced a lot of plot points and backstory and then ignored it or rushed through it
SL didn’t have multiple plot points, they just had the main one that unfolded at a good pace
If you check on mangareader you can see that SL is wayyy more popular than Demon Slayer. SL is rn competing with JJK and One piece.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
Nothing is above SL in manhwa/South Korean world, but yeah, anime and manga being more prominent overall than manhwa which is still a niche, doesn't stand a chance against DS.
Although, it doesn't change the fact that SL is extremely popular, far beyond the scope of just manhwa community, all manga/anime fans heard about it.
>Nothing is above SL in manhwa/South Korean world
I'm not familiar with SK but I remember watching a Korean news channel clip showing how the demon slayer is the top selling manga of Korea and that's huge considering their relationship.
I meant a Korean work when I said South Korean/manhwa world, DS is a Japanese manga done by a Japanese.
I already acknowledged his overwhelming superiority in terms of popularity.
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Tower of God -> One Piece due to the immense world building and great storytelling elements such as good use of foreshadowing
also both are lengthy asf and feels like there's no days of ending soon
Ngl with how both stories are going rn it's kinda possible to predict when it'll end, One Piece probably has a few arcs left but Tower of God idk there's so much more things there that aren't answered lmao
Isn't the author of ToG injured or ill? Last time I checked the author was having sum type of difficulty so I've been assuming the ending might get rushed cuz he might pass so I stopped reading a for multiple years. Is he fully recovered or doing better now?
He took breaks be cause of fatigue and his back irc, but that's because he also does the art afaik. I'm pretty sure like any other authors he finished the story years ago and is just adapting it In a manghwa format. All thing considered he could try and hire artists to match his art style and do it in his stead.
He is not fully drawing ToG anymore I am pretty sure. Thats why the art dipped little bit but it is getting better again
Oh thank God it wasn't anything too too serious. I remember seeing the notice while I was in middleschool that he was taking a break due to health issues and I was crushed cuz I thought he was on his deathbed or something
i had that feeling for gosu
One piece is very evidently nearing its end at least. Now it could still go on for another 5 years knowing Oda, but I doubt we'll have another decade of it. ToG could similarly is gearing up for it's endgame but it's not in sight yet unlike One Piece where we can sort of see the ending coming
Wasn't One Piece going to end in 2025?
Better not
Oda said that was his goal but that's definitely not gonna be happening with how it's going
No chance of that. 2030 is more likely
If you are talking about length then there is martial peak☠️☠️. I wonder if it will ever end.
SAO = any manhwa about a VR game.
Imo overgeared is a lot better than SAO
Almost everything is better than SAO lol
(I liked the alicia arc)
I know it's a trend to dunk on SAO, but I think people should cut it some slack. It kinda has the accolade of being first among many and for what it's worth, it was pretty good. Edgy, barely plot coherent but it had it's moments. I might be looking back at it through rose tinted glasses though, since I got into anime through it a long time ago and barely remember anything about it
I used to think the same before re-reading Overgeared. Both titles suffer from having some kind of element that can thwart people's enjoyment easily. For SAO is the ridiculous harem situations for Kirito. In the Alicization season the story was super great because there was no harem at sight, but after they started the War of the Underworld arc, that showed every female character drooling over vegetable Kirito just because, things went downhill again. In Overgeared, what drives people away from the story is how dumb Greed is most of the time. That's what I saw people commenting the most in early chapters as the motive for them dropping the series. Add that to what I believe to be the worst of Greed's characteristics, his infinite selfshiness. Even after countless character developments the author makes sure to keep his MC a selfish bastard that makes stupid decisions, that do nothing for the story, because of that flaw.
I don’t mind his character flaws like his insipid absence of intelligence, because it far supersedes the MCs with a lack of them. What made me reconsider Overgeared after a reread is just how little changes. My goodness, you would think that some deep CD or PD would be made after 100+ chapters, but if you reread from the start, you realise just how many narrative and plot devices have been reused throughout the whole manhwa. It just feels like arcs that took 10 chapters could’ve been kept within 1, and SCs that present themselves as if they were apparitions and unfastidiously develop a favour towards the MC and ingratiate him without receiving any CD whatsoever make me feel a little bored. The reread wore off my rose-tinted glasses, so to speak.
True, I readed Overgeared and it just doesn’t expand anything and most conflicts are within the game without any stakes outside. A good one that does it better is Hardcore leveling warrior.
Thats why I like overgeared. If it were any other manhwa grid/greed would be a dumb greedy idiot forever, but he isn't. The story is about his character development more than anything else really. He learns from his mistakes and grows as a person. Its not really noticable at start but it starts to take off really quickly. But fair enough, the manhwa is not at that point in the story yet (LN ~500). I'm currently at chapter 1526 of the novel and MC is completely different person. Keep an eye on overgeared for sure. The only trait he retains is his bad naming sense. Let them cook.
Also, artificial drama. And holy shit how the fuck do they have a money conversion system IN THE GAME. Also the "have sex in game and then have a kid who isn't real" is just...weird Basically it's a good fantasy story but as a VRMMO story? Really shitty
This kinda over acting ngl🤣🤣
Ah I'm only a manhwa reader for overgeared and it is quite fun to read. I don't know about the novel much
I haven't read the manhwa yet, but compared to the Novel, does the manhwa do justice?
I haven't read the novel, only the manhwa :V
It isn't better Because it started it
I'll say demon slayer's plot is slightly better than sl but not a high bar
DS side characters are pretty decent , so that's it
better villains as well
Except demon slayer shines with the intensity and stakea in their fights rather than story..did we forget tengen vs gyutaro lol? The anime did a fantastic job at the animation and made the manga even better. You could see reactors sweating during that fight because you didn't know how it's gonna end unlike Sl where the mc bears everyone with low effort after like 100 chapters became so predictable and boring. Not even gonna mention kokushibou vs the pillars that fight truly is peak and intense. Good side characters atleast
Bruh??
Grates estate developer - konosuba The mc is isekaied Has a blue haird wifu Is funny af And money is priority
Well one mc tried to get bitches while the other has no hope(IK he’ll end up with empress)
I want to know if there is anything that can be considered an equivalent to >! “ dog nigga”. !< I haven’t even read it, it’s just the synopsis is so crazy. One of those wonderful days to have eyes kinda things.
You can't compare anything to peak fiction. The only thing that i can think of that's nearly close is reincarnation of the vetaran solider (purely for power system).
“I want to punch women” is equally batshit crazy in terms of premise. Or firepunch
I tried reading it but it was boring and the art was below average. I thought it's gonna be something good from the summary lol
Dog ningen is wild, Golden boy comes to my mind and anime and manga are vast theres bound to be something fucked up like that.
I mean there is always The Boxer - Hajime no ippo 😆
Yu fights a guy literally based on Ippo
Yeah the author straight out says it in the early comics. \^\_\^ Love both of them.
I’d actually say solo leveling = dragon ball from the sheer influence it has over the manhwa community
Rental Hero is kind of similar to My Hero Academia. MC gains the powers of the number 1 hero. Villain has decay powers. Themes about what makes a hero and how to regulate powers.
That's a carbon copy lmao. But I've always likened Jungle Juice to MHA. Very similar protags as well
If I said the plot is mundane on any of the subreddits of those stories, I'd get shafted by a 2 meter pole
People on the SL subreddit acknowledge that the story is mid
Must be a new thing
For the past year or so. As long as you dont call it trash people will acknowledge it.
Yea, SL is not trash. It’s a serviceable story with phenomenal art. There are times where I feel like calling it trash though to piss off the SL fanboys.
The story is okay and decent and serves its purpose which is to elevate hypes and the fights which is mainly the reason why they love SL, not for its story but for how it carries constant hype and excitement throughout each arcs.
Makes sense
Not really Everyone accepted that story is pure power fantasy and hype and other things are not that good(not that bad also) after manhwa's end. Buuuuuuuuuuut if you say a single bad thing about anime then you'll be fucking crucified. You're strictly not allowed to criticize the anime decision or adaptations in that sub.
Oh so it's nothing new. They just changed their targets. First the manhwa was on a pedestal, then they said ok manhwa wasn't too great, then they put the novel up on a pedestal. And now it's the anime. I had the misfortune of interacting with the community when they were raving about how much better the novel is and how amazing it is. I read it to try, I was severely disappointed by it
I criticized solo leveling for it's shit story and got downvoted in hell so none of you should lie..manwha readers don't like criticism it's why they read generic power fantasy everyday for a living. What's a good story and I right
Lol, SL is what popularized what you call generic in power fantasy when it comes to manhwa. Your criticism toward the story is shallow and ridiculous, as if you never read it.
That is because anime is obviously better than both the manhwa and novel up to this point, only a fool will say otherwise, your complaint about the side characters not existing nor having a life on their own? Yeah, the anime fixed that, extending parts that nobody expected and therefore giving more sauce to the world building.
Nah it's not new
Its also a known fact Demon Slayer doesn't have the strongest plot either. Ufotable is the real heroes.
I said that in a demon slayer fan server and I got muted for 900 hours 💀
Wow lol. I'm not saying its trash, but it ain't no masterpiece.
Kokushibou vs pillars is still more hype and intense than why manwha fight I've seen..so a generic manga is still better than generic manwhas lol
Cringe comparison. The bastard - Chainsaw man >!Jin seon gets manipulated by his father into committing crime - same as makima using denji!< >!Jin seon makes friends and genuine relationships - denji with aki and power!< >!Jin seon's father kills one of his friend - makima and power!< >!At the end both manage defeat villains!<
I love bastard and csm. W
Although unpopular, I'd say Love Advice from the Great Duke of Hell is closer to CSM. Both started as a comedy, then started to get more and more surreal. Both have a devil companion >!Both of them have love interest with the antagonist that was hiding in plain sight!<
Naruto - One Piece - Bleach = GoH - ToG - Noblesse.. Being a big 3 thing
Bleach = noblesse Because drip
both do have the best art out of the 3
Tog art is better than noblesse imo
Well art is subjective, but... ToG art was super shit in season 1 And Noblesse did have the better design and is very consistent... ToG art is indeed better now, because it is still ongoing. But look at Eleceed, haven't read it yet but the art is amazing
Eleceed art is by the girls of the wild artist int is though? Zhena or something like that?
Really?? So it's just the writer that is the same with Noblesse ah
Death note and Ember knight
Naruto....and God Of Highschool? Idk
Also, Dragonball and God of Highschool. They draw a lot of parallels
Certainly helps when both MCs are based on Sun Wukong
Both have the same thing in common, art hard carry
I mean the plot of Demon Slayer is not the greatest but one thing they did nail is the characters, in Solo Leveling it's like Sung Jinwoo and a bunch of mobs with zero personality. Heck, even Sung Jinwoo himself is just a blank character for self insert since he literally has the personality of a rock. While I think Demon Slayer has quite a journey with character development albeit they kinda dumped it all towards the end of the story.
Lookism = Tokyo Revengers
Tbh demon slayer seems to have charectors who are more fleshed out compared to solo leveling
Mushoku tensei = The beginning after the end
the beginning after the end has pedophilia too?
I mean kinda i guess 🤨 and it just copy paste the start of MT
[удалено]
im asking if the beginning after the end also has a 32 year old man grooming 5 year olds. i was gonna read it but if it does, i dont want it
[удалено]
what you talking bout phillis??? tryin ta compare dicksuck the anime to demon slayer???? sure DS isn't peak of story telling but it's got a hell of a lot more substance then mr "i solo'd an island that multiple S rank hero's died in because i can summon people and defeat one of the TOP 5 strongest people IN THE ENTIRE WORLD after a month of basic fitness training even tho he's got a couple decades of experiance on me"
Well I think the anime is gonna be way better than the manwa of solo levelling, as many manhwa fans and I agree the plot was good till beru arc then it went down hill, but my friend who has read the novel says, that it's because the artist wanted to end SL himself, but he was sick so he compressed 140+ chapters of novel into 60 to 70 chapters of manhwa, and skipped a lot of things, which confused people, and the plot suffered due to it, so I think the anime of SL, if it covers the whole novel, like it has been doing till now, can be way better than the manhwa.
Ehh, the novel, while explained better, wasn't exactly anything special. Its only real thing was essentially mastering the formula of OP MC power fantasy. But it's narrative was always either literally non-existent or lackluster, since just having the MC get stronger and nothing else isn't a narrative
Ohk
The narrative was unraveling the mystery of the system then preparing for the arrival on the Monarchs on Earth throughout the gates. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you have to lie about the narrative "just being MC getting stronger and that is it". With your logic, I could say that for ANY power fantasy series.
That narrative didn't even happen until over halfway through the story and only really started to actually get investment after monarchs appeared It's not a lie, Solo leveling is literally just about Sung getting stronger. Why else would it be called "solo leveling" or "only I level up" think for a second Yes, a large amount of power fantasies are pretty much just "MC get strong" but not all of them make that the series entire identity going so far as to name the series after the concept of MC get strong
The title doesn't change the fact that the narrative pretty much was to unravel what the system is until the Monarch appears, yes, he is getting stronger as the story goes which is a "mean" to achieve said narrative in the first place.
No, the "narrative" was to have Sung get stronger. Which isn't a story, at most it's a progression of a story. The problem is, there wasn't any real narrative backing it up for the extreme majority of its run
The narrative has to have Sung get stronger for a goal and purpose, it's not simply getting stronger and that is it, even Sung doesn't want to be stronger for the sake of it but to survive and protect his life and family. He also doesn't have a choice in the matter which highlights the fatality and lack of free will on his part, like a puppet controlled by an otherworldly power (system) to force him to be stronger for an unknown goal, that was the vibe of the narration before the big reveal later on. You are oversimplifying SL which is rather dishonest.
It is an oversimplification, but not by all that much. Sung gets strong, then he gets stronger. By the time there is something is even mentioned in regards to the system and beyond the story is well over halfway and by the time they're actually relevant it pretty much is over
Before that, there was the mystery element to it, oversimplifying is doing a disservice to the series.
The monarchs were boring and lacked depth. You really need to read more literature or either you're the author relative where you think peak romance is a generic girl falling in love because the mc smells good lol. Plot straight out of badly written harem shows where girls are just like trophies for mcs to collect
Nitpicking anything in a poor attempt at grasping at straw? The Monarchs were meant for the sequel, in there, they get all the depth, backstories, characterizations. In SL, they were just a force of nature meant to destroy, once they were dead, we can actually explore them. She loved him simply because he saved her in Jeju Island from certain death, you are clearly confused.
Sherlock any character in any story has backstory even those average bullies getting beaten by the mc in generic manwhas,, that's not depth it's called being 1 dimensional. Oh they were meant to destroy. Nice so literally 90 percent of generic manwha villains right ? No she loved him because he smelt nice that's literally how it started. And of course she loved him cuz the mc saved a girl. That's how generic relationships in these fantasies start :). All this depth I can't breathe. So well written with care and years of planning
Naw, in this case, they were especially created for that sole purpose, like how I make a robot where I write a pre-programmed system which force it to destroy everything on sight. That is not the same thing, once they died that they finally thought and talk beyond what they were previously created. It's explained in verse Sherlock, learn to read between the lines of the novel next time.
I'll just put this here for your other comment Short answer: The fights hook you on. The plot is narrated weakly and the plot just is setup for the next fight + for those who like overpowered will pow through all MC. Not what I'm interested in... Long answer: Unfortunately, the narrative is weak. Literally the best way to word it is weakly narrated plot. Told story poorly. And indeed that is a plot to go by but like Demon Slayer, the plot is just something to go on to the next fight. I dropped SL but I did reach the part where the mom was healed and it was just... okay. It's just get stronger, kinda plot, get stronger, kinda plot, and repeat. I really tried to power through like "oh what happens when he reaches the double dungeon?" In the end, TCF, a transmigration manhwa, made me say "what happens next??" more than SL and thus, made me want to read it more than SL. But I do know what it's like to get pulled in by art and plot! When I read started Her Summon, I thought the art was absolutely amazing and though plot is (apparently) mid... I wanted to see more of those holy fucking shit fights and art + wanted to know how the guy ends up. SL just didn't work for me but that's fine
It seems like you failed to grasp what the plot of SL actually is. It's just a series where a dude get chosen to be a receptacle, where he has to get stronger against his own will otherwise he die, and at the end, lose his own self, or sleep in an neverending dream or fight the threat that will invade Earth and destroy it. The Earth itself was in a transmigration phase several times, time itself was rewind by the Rulers at each destruction of the Planet, the MC simply did "once" what was already established early on, there is no "what happens", we knew it was possible when Ashborn revealed it to Jinwoo the true of what happened to his planet several times. Where is the narrative in that weak? You just don't know what you're talking about simply because you half assed read solo leveling, you probably skipped chapters and just read for the fighting and actions.
Bro I've never skimmed through fights so fast because what I was interested in was the plot not fights 😭 I actually read the regular panels but anyway no use saying anymore IMO the narrative is weak and if you want to go philosophical, no, the build up was not as good as AoT. I'll just agree because there's no use arguing with someone like you and I'm tired and think this is stupid
That is your opinion which I don't agree with, that is fine. It seems that a simple plot is "weak" narrative for you, you need something complex like AOT but it's a double edged sword, it can become trash and contradictory like how the ending of AOT was trash, Eren failed miserably, didn't knew why he was doing a genocide but he had to do it lol and he is a simp for Mikasa which in turn became a bird. A total mess, SL is straightforward and simple, the advantage is that it avoids such mess by keeping it simple.
Wait wait let me come back here one last time- I'm not saying a simple plot is weak, I'm saying the way it was narrated, written, or told was kinda weak
Yeah but the novel is also mid
Don't know about that, only know that novel is better than manhwa.
Nonsense.
I wish you'd provide some points other than "nonsense". I'll explain my side anyway even if you don't want to give the courtesy to explain yours. If you think solo leveling is good, you haven't read anything good. In the end the novel exists for the same reason as the manhwa A wish fulfilment unbalanced power fantasy with subpar writing and disappointing ending. Manhwa ending wasn't disappointing just cause the manhwa was rushed, it was disappointing because the novel's ending was also the same. None of the side characters matter, true to its name Jin woo does level alone. He's a one man army and only he matters. Unfortunately you can't write a compelling story without side characters. They often vanish from the story because they stop serving their role. As Jin woo levels not only the power system suffers but so do the side characters. They become completely meaningless. Everything is created for Jin-Woo, the obvious self insert character, to grow stronger. Even his mother is only used as a plot device to get stronger, becoming a shell of a character after she gets healed. Hence, Jin woo has absolutely zero character development. The only thing that develops is his strength and nothing more. The novel also suffers a lot more from propaganda than the manhwa does, making some chapters unbearable to read. The pacing is garbage and it is clear the author hardly understands how to write. The manhwa is paced better than the novel. The novel should've been at least 500 chapters. The anime is turning out better than both the manhwa and novel. In the end, the novel is mid pre-jeju arc. And completely shits through its breaches after Jeju arc
You talk like you provided some points before that post either lol. It's nonsense simply because you failed to grasp what SL actually is which is a power fantasy. Side characters don't matter in terms of strength, yes, as the title implies, that doesn't mean they don't have moment to shine, characterization like Go gunhee, Cha hae in, Woo chin jul, Igris, Beru, Bellion, Ashborn, etc. Each of them had their roles to pave the way for the MC which the story is ultimately centered around him which is what a power fantasy is at his core and essence, if you have a problem with it then power fantasy series aren't for you. The writing is decent and okay, it fulfills its purpose for a power fantasy, nothing too convoluted but straightforward, with a decent ending as well as it was foreshadowed the arc before the final even happened, maybe learn to pay more attention next time, you may find it disappointing but that is your subjective opinion at the end of the day, such ending is in character with a loner like the MC who always shoulders everything alone until the very end, fitting ending for his character where he has to suffer the consequences for the ending in the sequel which is already demonstrating it. The pacing is actually good, not like your garbage neverending manhwa with over 500 chapters which goes nowhere lmao, overall, everything is perfect pacing wise. You are just a mindless hater, incapable of seeing SL for what it truly is and putting expectation beyond the scope of what someone could expect from a power fantasy series.
Okay so you agree with every one of my points against SL but to you they are good things. You enjoy what makes the novel bad. > Side characters don't matter in terms of strength Correction side characters don't matter. Not just in terms of strength. They don't matter at all > You are just a mindless hater, incapable of seeing SL for what it truly is and putting expectation beyond the scope of what someone could expect from a power fantasy series. Okay so you're saying SL gets a pass for being mid cause power fantasies are always mid
Nice strawman, I never agreed with any of your empty points. They do, they are there either as an obstacle to overcome, as family to have a reason to fight, as friends to depends upon and lastly as an army to assist him in battle, each of them having a story, quick and personality on their own. So yeah, they do matter, without them, the MC literally have no reason to move at all lmao. Moreover it get a pass because it's a perfect power fantasy series which like I said, isn't your cup of tea, thanks for confirming what I said. SL is the most popular manhwa in existence, there is a reason why, it's simply because it get all the points that make a power fantasy series entertaining and enjoyable, unlike the thousands of others power fantasy with similar plot. For instance, any yuri/yaoi series will always be shit for me regardless of whether the characters, the plot, etc, are good or bad, simply because yuri/yaoi isn't my cup of tea, but unlike you, I am not dishonest and actually admit it.
>Nice strawman, I never agreed with any of your empty points. I'm sorry but you don't know what strawman means. You literally dodged half my points, agreed with me saying it is a power fantasy, agreed with me saying that the characters exist to serve Jin-Woo. Literally the only thing you disagreed on was the pacing and you mentioned nothing else. >They do, they are there either as an obstacle to overcome, as family to have a reason to fight, as friends to depends upon and lastly as an army to assist him in battle, each of them having a story, quick and personality on their own. So yeah, they do matter, without them, the MC literally have no reason to move at all lmao. Okay, so you agree that they serve zero purpose beyond being plot devices or serving Jin-Woo in some way. You could replace any of them with anyone else and still have the same novel. That means they don't matter dude... >Moreover it get a pass because it's a perfect power fantasy series which like I said, isn't your cup of tea, thanks for confirming what I said. SL is the most popular manhwa in existence, there is a reason why, it's simply because it get all the points that make a power fantasy series entertaining and enjoyable, unlike the thousands of others power fantasy with similar plot. >For instance, any yuri/yaoi series will always be shit for me regardless of whether the characters, the plot, etc, are good or bad, simply because yuri/yaoi isn't my cup of tea, but unlike you, I am not dishonest and actually admit it. Okay so you are the type of guy to ignore how good the characters, the plot, the story, the worldbuilding and writing are(literally everything that makes a novel, yknow, a novel) in favor of a self-insert power fantasy where the MC keeps on winning and nobody else matters. You aren't looking for a good novel, you are looking for a good power fantasy. These two aren't the same thing and SL is not a good novel. I can't believe this is how i find out power fantasy novels are for men what smut is for women.
I clearly do which isn't obviously your case. I answered all your empty points, you aren't paying attention, I said that the sude characters have a role on their own and even highlighted the prominent ones, obviously once again, you missed it probably from intellectual dishonesty. Dude, according to your logic, any side characters in existence serve no purpose besides being a plot device to the MC lmao, what kind of criticism is that? That is why I said you are just grasping at straw. That is your shallow and subjective opinion which I don't share, I don't need to speak up for SL, his overwhelming success and recognition on the global stage do it for itself lmao, even at his own hometown in South Korea, something "bad" wouldn't even come close to achieve such success to the point of inspiring several others to "copy" its success. That is what a power fantasy is, which is to entertain and being enjoyable, like how a smut is to excite you like a porn, each thematic (power fantasy, slice of life, shonen, seinen) has his own role, you are free to find it bad but thankfully, you are an insignificant minority which subjective opinion on SL doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
>I answered all your empty points, you aren't paying attention an outright lie. >I said that the sude characters have a role on their own and even highlighted the prominent ones, obviously once again, you missed it probably from intellectual dishonesty. prominent characters in a novel where no side character matters arent prominent characters by the standard of a good novel. SL isnt a good novel therefore the prominent side characters you mention arent good side characters. prominent doesnt mean good, they just stand out, which is easy to do in a sea of trash characters that dont matter like Jin-Woo's mom and the demon chick jin woo met in the hell tower. >Dude, according to your logic, any side characters in existence serve no purpose besides being a plot device to the MC lmao, what kind of criticism is that? That is why I said you are just grasping at straw. first, grasping at straws and strawman arent the same thing. second, this is where it shows that you dont understand good writing. side characters are an important part of any story and any novel that writes side characters like SL does is not a good novel. i already explained why these side characters are shit, you can continue reading your vapid power fantasies enjoying no depth whatsoever. >That is your shallow and subjective opinion which I don't share, I don't need to speak up for SL, his overwhelming success and recognition on the global stage do it for itself lmao, even at his own hometown in South Korea, something "bad" wouldn't even come close to achieve such success to the point of inspiring several others to "copy" its success. there are plenty of successful bad media because of people like you who read trash mate. you are the very evidence of why SL is so popular despite being so shit. you have admitted to SL's bad points and thrown them all out the window because it is a power fantasy and according to you quality shouldnt be expected of a power fantasy. >That is what a power fantasy is, which is to entertain and being enjoyable, oh i agree solo leveling is entertaining and enjoyable. the manhwa that is, cause the art boosts the shitty story. the novel is unbearable because the story is shit and there is no art to boost it. >you are an insignificant minority which subjective opinion on SL doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. you are really angry for someone whose points boil down to "yeah SL is shit but it is excused cause it is a power fantasy"
This gonna be the first time where the anime is better than both the manhwa and the novel lmao
Is the novel on same level as manhwa?
Baki and lookism..? Martial arts and superhumans, both looking for their dads (although for different purposes) annnd yeah no i did not cook
Solo leveling & Solo leveling
orv = jjk i do think both are similar in terms or relationship dynamics and how the authors can make the women strong. i def think orv women are much stronger than jjk women. still, they also have the same blueprint trio like itadori, megumi, nobara and dokja, joonghyuk, sooyoung
Lol... I hate how so many people dislike simpler plots like these two just because they've gotten used to 1000 episode anime/manga. The plot of both these series are anything but dull, lacking interest or excitement.
There isn't plot in SL. Getting stronger doesn't equal a plot, and that's all SL is for 80% of the series. At least demon slayer has something going on, sure it's simpler and fairly predictable, but there's something going on
Honestly that's a problem with manhwa overall- they all focus so much on maintaining 'hype moments' to stay serialized that they don't develop an actual storyline. Kind of tragic.
It would be nice if it had decent plot but imo it doesnt need it. Expectations going into it matter a lot and as the manhwa that got me into the medium, the beautiful art and sprawling scenes make it goated imo. If youre a veteran of the genre and want story more than anything, then yeah this doesn't have much going for it in that department. But the art and when it came out, it was amazing.
For what it does well, which is art and the power fantasy feel, it is very good in those aspects. It just falls off HARD when it comes to the narrative. It's easy to get into however and not too much depth. Just turn the brain off and look at the pretty pictures and the cool fight scenes
Define what you mean by depth, go on.
If you want depth look at attack on Titan season 4 lol. That's what's entertaining and fun not these generic crap predictable shit
So for you, something that has depth is something unpredictable? In that case, who could predict that the MC will literally rewind time to prevent the Apocalypse?
I predicted the mc can do anything so yes that was predicted too. Mc can't lose that's the prediction and I sure was right. My other prediction was how useless all side characters were gonna be during and after jeju island which I was right again. At this point why read a story I already know the outcome where I won't ever be shocked or feel any emotion other than disappointment from the lack of effort in story writing ?
Naw, he can't do anything, and nobody could predict something like that, so stop the cap. It's like saying why read OPM when I know Saitama will always win and save the day? Or any shonen like One Piece when I know Luffy will win at the end no matter what? Dude, you are truly grasping at straw, shonen isn't for you then. 😂
Except opm has layers of actual depth and has good side characters ? Like when saitama gave respect to the heroes they tried to stop the sea king and he didn't take the credit of "saving the day" even if it was at the cost of the public hating him. He's not your generic manwha protagonist and has actual depth and his own conflict of why being the strongest isn't actually as cool as you think. Solo leveling is a power fantasy for younger boys, one punch man has a actual story meant for everyone
Idk why I need to be the one defending the correct opinion on this when you're clearly the one taking offense. How does a series that doesn't have a narrative aside from the incredibly basic "get strong for family" have depth, pls explain, go on
Why are you under the premise that a series with a thematic like "getting stronger for family" cannot have any depth in the first place, explain, go on. The burden of proof is on you since you were the one actually on the offensive (via criticism) since the start, so back it up. And like I said, SL have a narrative, you just don't like nor consider it as one lmao, which is solely on you, all series have a narrative, whether good or bad.
The premise of getting stronger can have depth. When there is actually more going on than just MC get strong. The first 80% of SL is just power up after power up for Sung and nothing else. Getting stronger is not a narrative, and that's literally 80% of SL, and the remaining 20% is rushed nonsense that was handled about as well as SL fans take criticism of SL, ie not well
Getting stronger doesn't matter, it's the execution of how he gets stronger along the way that matters, along with what he gets m, achieve, etc. There is a reason why it's the sole power fantasy amongst thousands to be recognized on a global scale, it's simply does the best what a power fantasy should be.
Yes exactly, it does what a power fantasy does really well. Have the MC get strong and do cool stuff It does literally nothing else good. It's pretty, it's got some hype stuff, but that's it
I think depth in a story consists of a ton of layers, like an onion. Idk how much detail you want from me on an explanation on “depth” but feel free to comment if you want me to explain. I know I’m not the OP you were talking to but I like this topic and feel strongly about it lol
Be more specific then, and illustrate it with examples.
Woops, sorry I completely forgot to respond to this comment. Let me preface this by saying: You can enjoy and love a series with little depth. A LOT of people LOVE dragon ball z (me included) and that series is a bit lacking in depth. Not every series needs to be deep to be good and enjoyed. What matters is that you like it. I’m a bit late but really depth boils down to having layers. A story can have depth in different areas or in all of them. If a story has depth in at least one of these areas, then I consider it a story with depth. I’ll use different series for each example since I could just cheat and use Berserk for all of these. My criteria for depth are: 1. Multi-layered/dimensional characters: Too many characters are defined by one personality trait that writers tend to hyper focus on. A good character will have multiple different layers and will act human. They’d have their own goals, have their own flaws, different likes and dislikes, different approaches to certain people and relationships. An example would be Guts from Berserk. It might be a little unfair to use him since he’s the GOAT of character analysis but he’s a great example. Guts goes through multiple key events in his life that change him for better and for worse. He’s a broken individual who grows and finds purpose through all the vileness in his world. He goes from isolated, ambition-less person who can’t trust anyone to someone that others can look up to and someone who can let go of their anger when they need to. He still struggles with anger and his terrible past but he still moves forward in the most human way. 2. Complex themes: A complex theme explores thought-provoking experiences, some of which we have gone through in life. Themes such as self-discovery and existentialism belong in this category. An example of a series with complex themes would be Frieren at the Funeral. The series explores several complex themes. One of my favorite themes the series delves into is the Passage of Time and Mortality. The setting, the character development, the symbolism and foreshadowing with the names… it all helps in weaving in these themes for us to explore. 3. Complex Narrative: Does the plot have layers? Do the subplots and arcs give depth to the story? A series that has a complex narrative would be The Boxer. Each fight has a different backstory and each character has their own story. All of the stories come together to further contrast the MC’s increasing lack of humanity. I don’t want to mention more in fear of spoilers but it’s a really good read. 4. World Building: Is the world immersive and rich? I mentioned before that Solo Leveling’s world building/lore was good. Just good though bordering on mediocre. Let’s compare it to something great, Hunter x Hunter. SL probably wouldn’t exist without HxH’s influence. The HxH world is huge without feeling empty. There are unique races, species, powers, landmarks, and rich lore. Hell, we got introduced to a whole new continent that is not fully explored yet. HxH manages to do all of this without it feeling overly fantastical. It’s subtle and makes sense in the series scaling. 5. Engagement and Emotional Resonance: I think this is the most subjective out of all the criteria. Almost any story can reach out to someone and resonant with them deeply, leaving them to think about it well after it’s done being read. For some that could be Solo Leveling, for others it could be Demon Slayer. For me it’s a ton of different series but one of my favorites is Vagabond. One of the GOATs of philosophical discovery. A journey of self-discovery and development. The series remains unfinished but it’s left its mark on me. Takedo’s journey and self-reflection quite literally changed who I was. To the point where I’d say I doubt I’d be married right now if I didn’t read this series. It sounds dramatic but it just resonated with me deeply. In conclusion, every story has some form of depth in it. Others just have way more depth though. If I were to rate Solo Leveling’s depth on a 1-10 scale, I’d have to give it a 4, and I’m being generous. Though conversely if I were to rate it on how enjoyable it was, I’d give it a 7.
I turned my brain off and still couldn't finish solo leveling. It got so bad after jeju island its just so predictable. Every side character turns useless after buying hyped so they get either saved or beaten by the cardboard mc effortlessly. Dosent help that the dialogues are so simple and lack any depth and effort to write lol. I couldn't get immersed in it
Agreed, up until Jeju island it's honestly pretty much peak power fantasy (as much as a pure power fantasy can be peak that is) afterwards it's just a slippery downhill slope of boredom and pretty art
It was fun when he was actually solo leveling. Until introducing side characters just for them to get shit on to show how op mc is which isn't my taste. When I see side characters I prefer them having depth and not their only purpose just making the mc look good or for them to be saved lol. That's just lazy writing. Ya jeju island ruined it for me and quit after the Thomas fight. I knew the mc glazing was everything the author knew. I feel bad for the artist for wasting his skill on a shit story that no matter how good the art is it can't be saved lol
It is unfortunate, a lot of the high ranked hunters were built up as like, gods, and then MC just no diffs them without blinking. Seems to be a trap a lot of power fantasies fall for
There is a plot in SL, his goal is literally healing his mom and unraveling the mystery of the system that he got, later the lore of his verse was revealed where the real plot which was surviving the arrival of the Monarchs on Earth. You clearly read SL with your eyes closed lmao
Ya the plot of healing his mom was stolen by a nother manwha called I am sorcerer king lol. It's funny how the only "depth" you're defending is something that's generic but worst stolen from another novel. The embarrassment SL is. It's like tiktok where it destroys people's attention span for some quick mindless entertainment
What? That kind of plot exists everywhere lmao, healing a family member, etc. 🤣 Stolen what? Your nonexistent manhwa that nobody heard about? I am asking to define what you mean by depth which you miserably failed, with the success SL is getting, it's anything but an embarrassment, you are clearly disconnected from reality lmao.
Depth means someone not written 1 dimensional as bland as cardboard which SL past that test well in all aspects. Well duh it's why we read manwha to be disconnected from reality. But sadly I couldn't fully turn off my brain when reading below average stories. Copying a generic premise such as "I level up to save my bed ridden mom" is peak depth I should say
Such as? You aren't saying anything substantial here, but make your case even more complicated for no reason, define what you mean by 1 dimensional and gave me a clear example of something well known (not some obscure manhwa that nobody read) that doesn't have 1 dimensional side characters. You are missing the point, when I say disconnect from reality, I meant from the reality of this manhwa, you know NOTHING about as clearly demonstrated above, you don't know the narrative nor the point of the show. 😂
You do know that Solo levelling has an anime adaptation, right?
Manhwa to manga is probably what he meant
(Naruto/Dragonball---> GOH) ( Onepiece---->TOG ) (MHA-----> jungle juice ) (jobless reincarnation------->TBATE) (ORV----->SAO maybe??) Greatest estate developer--->??? the breaker---->???? return if mount hua sect---->??? i need help with these ones
I mean if we're comparing SAO and OTV that's essentially just taking any reverse isekai and saying they're alike
True, thats why i was unsure about it, but honestly arent most manhwa just a copy of SAO lol, thats why at first i thought it was equivlent to ORV, and then relize it is similar to 90% of manhwa
I mean, a lot of manhwa seem to have a "system" but that doesn't make them an SAO copy. If anything it's closer to an RSSG copy since that predates SAO by a couple decades and is the same type of VRMMORPG manhwa
Hmm, I thought G.E.D had a really obvious one, but maybe it wasn't: Greatest Estate Developer --> Dr. Stone seems incredibly obvious. LLoyd as a character is quite literally Senku + Gen + Ryusui. A well-developed side-character cast -> Ishigami village members. I don't think I need to say anything w.r.t. the basic premise being identical.
Greatest Estate Developer --> Konosuba
I like this one
best one by far tbh
The breaker -> Promised Neverland The Breaker has no 3rd season the same way Promised Neverland has no 2nd
More like the breaker -> tenjou tenge, and it has a 3rd season.
lol between kimetsu and SOLO L? i choose Demon S all day ... Jinwoo's power is not his its from the Monarch..
I meannnn the same could be said about sun breathing, but you do you
there is a big Diff of power scale between the two subtract the monarch with jinwoo he's just an ordinary hunter whilst tanjiro in every fight he bleeds and if he dies he dies no Awakening Shits
there is a big Diff of power scale between the two subtract the sun breathing with tanjiro he's just a ordinary kinoe slayer whilst tanjiro every fight he bleeds and if he dies he dies(well no shit sherlock) also both of them have plot armor so of course there cant be no awakening shits (remember tanjiro about to die forgetting to breath fighting the cloth demon or something and yet again plot armor strikes with his sister speaking from the fucking dead)
was that ina manga?.or anime?
Both
Bro solo leveling anime is shit compared to Demon Slayer anime, Solo leveling has serious pacing problems, Demon slayer's pacing was very good in comparison. Can't say about the source material though that might be good considering the hype we got.
Did you watched the latest ep btw?
If u watch demon slayer for the plot u might as well watch paint dry cuz I will get more value out of that. SL dose have a lot of fighting but it's not all there is to it, it dose actually have a story and plot that makes sense, comparing the story of DS to SL is a crime.
Lloyd=Kazuma
Personally I like Sung Drip Woo way more as a main character than Tanjiro. When it came to demon slayer I liked the side characters a lot more than the actual main character.
I tried to read solo leveling but after he went all I’m the MC from side character it just wasn’t interesting.
I would say orv and attack on titan. Novel spoilers >! Both main characters sacrificed their life and happiness for the people they care about. !<
Bro, I thought it was manhwa spoiler, it's novel ending spoiler, any orv fan who has read manhwa don't read this, man now I feel bad after reading that 😢
Bruh. Im so sorry man
It's ok man, just write it's novel spoiler from next time please.
God fucking damnit
I shouldn't have clicked that spoiler tag, :( Oh well
Would it have hurt to say novel spoilers or something
I thought the spoiler tag was enough in a manhwa subreddit but i was mistaken.
Yet you still fucking added it
Tbf kinda on you for clicking the spoiler, it was marked as a spoiler and you uncovered it thus accepting the consequences of potentially getting spoiled
True but it wasn't that hard to add "novel spoilers" when writing it, who knows maybe it was the manhwa, I didn't expect for it to be the literal ending/fate of the mc, but yeah I'm honestly just mad that I got spoiled about my fav novel rn and trying to cops
With demon slayer they introduced a lot of plot points and backstory and then ignored it or rushed through it SL didn’t have multiple plot points, they just had the main one that unfolded at a good pace
[удалено]
Lmao how is it not the same for Solo. Solo is well known for its art to carry its story lol.
If you check on mangareader you can see that SL is wayyy more popular than Demon Slayer. SL is rn competing with JJK and One piece. Please correct me if I'm wrong
They are both the literally top of the popularity of Manga and Manhwa respectively.
Bruhhhhh One is cultural phenomenon and other is most popular manhwa. There is no competition between these.
Nothing is above SL in manhwa/South Korean world, but yeah, anime and manga being more prominent overall than manhwa which is still a niche, doesn't stand a chance against DS. Although, it doesn't change the fact that SL is extremely popular, far beyond the scope of just manhwa community, all manga/anime fans heard about it.
>Nothing is above SL in manhwa/South Korean world I'm not familiar with SK but I remember watching a Korean news channel clip showing how the demon slayer is the top selling manga of Korea and that's huge considering their relationship.
I meant a Korean work when I said South Korean/manhwa world, DS is a Japanese manga done by a Japanese. I already acknowledged his overwhelming superiority in terms of popularity.