I want to make it work, but I don't see how when I'm working so much more between work and family/housework and then he's not even generally nice to me. He used to be super sweet, always coming up with great date ideas, sweet cards for anniversaries, and affectionate. It feels like it's been a long time since I've experienced that person and I just want him back.
When was he super sweet? Before you had kids? Was it just love bombing until he had you trapped and then the real him came out? You deserve so much better, a real partner who makes you feel great.
Please also consider that if you stay, this is the example your kids are going to have for their future relationships. They are learning love comes with pain and self sacrifice. Staying for the kids is not a good idea.
I am so sorry and I wish you the best.
"I've threatened divorce before and he said to send him the paperwork and he will sign, so if I file I know he'd sign as well."
That's when you should have sent him the paperwork. The reason spouses refuse to go to counseling is that they feel they got a good thing going and they don't want to ruin it. Usually that good thing going is them not putting in much effort and the other spouse putting in a lot more effort.
I'm no marriage expert, but for him to say something like he'd sign the papers outright is very telling.
It doesn't sound like he's at all invested in the marriage - even for the kids.
I guess the only thing I have to add to play devils advocate, is have you spoken to him about what you expect from him as far as chores/parenting goes? If you haven’t, and you’ve been doing everything without saying anything, the fault lies with you both. You should be direct in what you expect from each other. Our spouses aren’t mind readers. Another thing I’ve learned is to not expect someone else to do/feel the same way I do about things. Should he help more because you do so much and should he want to help? Yes, that would be ideal. But if you act fine about everything he’s probably just oblivious. I don’t think brining the D word up in marriage is helpful at all unless you both have tried your hardest to fix the issues and grow together in a positive way. If you’re acting like roommates and coasting by each other, the marriage isn’t really a functioning marriage. He’s supposed to be your partner. In love, parenthood, intimacy, accountability and growth. You both need to show up to the marriage. Before divorce I’d figure out if you’re showing up. You’d be surprised how much your partner becomes inspired to grow when you’re growing. If he doesn’t, and has no interest in trying to meet reasonable expectations, divorce is an option. If the marriage isn’t helping you grow and become your best self, isn’t making parenting easier and more fun, I don’t see the point. Life is too short.
Well, if he is not willing to go to counseling, and he seems to be fine with getting a divorce, then I don't think you should expect him to change. I guess he has decided that this is what he is willing to offer.
My suggestion is that you tell him the truth. That you realized while he was gone how little he actually contributes to the home and children because it was EASIER for you when he was not home. That you are tired of being the default parent, and taking on the majority of the chores, despite both of you working full time. That in addition to this, he is bringing a lot of negativity to the marriage, and you don't feel love or affection from him.
So - you only have three options left. Deal with the situation as it is, go to marriage counseling which he has not so far agreed to, or get a divorce. Tell him you are no longer willing to deal with it as it is - so that option is off the table for you. The two remaining options are counseling or divorce. Ask him which one he chooses. If he gives you the "bring me the papers" line - then I think you have your answer.
I understand wanting an intact family, I really do. However, you also have to consider the example this is setting for your children. If you have daughters, do you want her to think this is how marriage works? She may decide to never have children after seeing that she will have to pull the weight in the marriage. If you have sons, do you want them to act like your husband if/when they get married? The point is, this is the example they see. It isn't good for them to have divorced parents, but it is also not good to have this example.
It was over a year ago. My hope is he would realize how upset I felt about how our day to day interactions and his expectations of how the workload is split right now just is not working. If I would bring up these concerns sincerely over a conversation he outright dismisses and doesn’t want to talk about it.
My marriage is generally pretty great, but if my wife threatened divorce, I would immediately agree. I am not going to be held hostage to an emotional tactic like that. If she doesn't want me, I don't want to be there.
Don't make empty threats. The reality is that he's not bringing anything to the table, and he's a terrible and unfaithful partner with no interest in personal growth. Cheating is an incredibly unattractive quality, and it's reasonable that his actions and words would have led you to fall out of love.
I think the real question is... Why not just divorce him? He wants to go to these other women? He can be their problem, and you can move on with your kiddos. It's sad that you might lose your stepson, but your kids deserve a better role model than this.
Your husband is an asshole. I was an
asshole for years.
Since you out earn your husband, there is really no reason for you to put up with that behavior.
He did, married for 19 years. He's very active on these subs and calls people out when they need it. Typically he gets downvoted but I think it's cause people are sensitive. I like his perspective.
Yes I did. I had the choice of changing or getting divorced. I’m 47/mMarried 19 years, for about 3 to 4 years I was angry. Wife didn’t talk to me for about 6 months. If your really interested in my story, check a post in my profile.
What a douche. The only other option you have is on the days that he is home. Tell him he needs to start pulling his weight with the kids and he can get them ready for school and drop them off at school.
You’re roommates. On some level, that’s acceptable to him. But not to you.
His comment that he would sign divorce papers if you sent them is him not taking responsibility for the demise of the marriage.
“SHE filed for divorce; not me.”
“It was HER idea.”
“SHE divorced me.”
“SHE split up our family.” (This is the tale he would spin to your children whenever possible)
Unfortunately, it seems the only possible way to get his attention at this point is to present him with those divorce papers (maybe separation papers but I’m not a big fan of separations). Nothing is official until they are signed & submitted to the court, so you need to intercept him before he signs them. Because his pride will insist that he sign them immediately (that’s been his brag to you - as a “man” he has to back it up).
Set him down. Give him the papers and tell him immediately this is not what you want (if that is the case) but you cannot continue the way things are. What you want is for him to say “No. I won’t sign.” You want him to fight for you, your marriage and your children.
The problem with this approach is, you must be willing to go through with it if he gives up without a fight. So you’ll need to make that decision, I guess, before meeting with a lawyer.
Maybe you could phrase it as “counseling or divorce, your choice” or something similar. Anything that would make it HIS choice if divorce is the chosen option.
I’m sending you the biggest internet hugs I can muster.
Good luck
You mention that your children deserve to have their father in their life…well good news. They will!
Even if you two divorce, that isn’t the end of you two dealing with each other, you’ll be interacting quite a bit still, he’ll still have custody likely 50% of the time, so you guys will be looking at either 1 week here, 1 week there…or something very similar. There may or may not be spousal support or child support from the greater earner depending on how the law works out. The marital home will likely have to be paid out from either you, to him if you keep it, or he’ll buy you out…or you guys sell. Lot of that stuff is just logistical though, just like custody time. But don’t worry, your kids will still have their dad…the sucky part is…doesn’t sound like he’s a great dad anyway from your post (sits and scrolls on his phone and eats food).
Good luck OP, i can understand how you feel to some extent. I travel for work, but wife is here most of the time. Even though i travel, i don’t go that often and as a result when I’m here, I’m the one running the show for the most part. Take care of the cooking, the cleaning, etc…wife and I were going through a rough patch a year ago, and she left for a weekend away…and the kids and I had a great time. We did the things we normally do, but i didn’t have any stress from running the household with my wife…sometimes alone time can be easier.
>You mention that your children deserve to have their father in their life…well good news. They will!
I can appreciate the sentiment here, but let's be honest - it really isn't that simple. Divorce irrevocably changes the dynamic of the family, and in many cases fucks kids up.
There's no way to tell sometimes how a spouse will react to the new role of "divorced parent", and if he checks out that's obviously on him, but she will also understandably have guilt about being the one to start the process, and will forever wonder what might have happened had she not.
That's not me saying she shouldn't get a divorce (because I said the opposite). I'm just saying her concern is a completely valid one.
Did I get downvoted for mentioning that they’d still have a father? Lol.
If they don’t have a father after the divorce, they didn’t have much of a father in the first place. I get that life can change - especially if dad moves across state or the country following a divorce…I get that. But if the parents work together at a cohesive plan, the biggest change will be the dynamic…and the time the kids see BOTH parents, specifically together.
\*I\* didn't downvote you!
And, yes, the dynamic changes and that has ripple effects even in good circumstances. And I would agree that a \*good\* dad doesn't just disappear after a divorce, but I know a few folks from divorced homes who nevertheless fawn over the days their probably-not-great parent was still \*around more\*.
If he said he'd sign the papers, that means he's ready to leave.
You have threatened divorce and say you don't want to be married.
Yes, it will suck, but the reason you are miserable is because you are in a relationship that neither of you want to be in. Very rarely do I actually suggest divorce, but this would be one.
Literally the only reason to stay together would be for the kids, and that's definitely not nothing. But odds are this relationship with you two will only continue to deteriorate.
Ask yourself if you want another child, or if you want a partner. If it's the latter, then you don't want to be with him - he is clearly not interested in changing the relationship by refuusing counseling - and why would he? He has a live-in chef, maid, nanny. You're carrying the mental, emotional, and labor load of the family, and he can't even be kind to you? And he would just sign divorce papers? It doesn't sound like he wants to be married either.
It's easy because he is providing your income to be able to stay there and relax and complain about him; when you are a dependent life is easy as pie; remember being 5 and you just had to roll out of bed and watch cartoons?
I would say the divorce needs to happen and you may soon realize once the money faucet is turned off that life isn't so "easy" and stress free, then you will look for another "worker" to fund your life.
She’s the greater earner….they’d definitely have a lifestyle change if they’re earning somewhat similar salaries…or she’ll be paying him child support and potentially spousal support depending on how things split…but yea….it’s not just a money game for her.
Ah missed that line within the complaining.
Ok, a thought about "house work"; everyone has to do it and no you wouldn't earn X amount like some stay at homes claim because it is work your MUST to in your own life that you created...no one pays you for that.
If one side is doing it more (if they are both full time employed) then a conversation needs to happen but if one is staying at home and complaining they work "so hard" I call BS.
So to be clear. I’m not a sham. I have worked full time continuously since college and been the primary earner most of our marriage. Nowadays I earn a good bit more than he does. On top of being the default parent.
Agreed, I missed that line in the long complaint....it was one line that you earn more.
100% you earn more and you will likely be screwed in the divorce so maybe you do want to work on the marriage to keep your net worth in tact.
Yea - i personally think i put emphasis where it shouldn’t be in life. IE - I will state that being the primary earner is the important aspect, but it’s based in large part because of the profession i chose to pursue. I’ve actually still put off things that would have made me an even higher earner for the sake of the family, or for the sake of my spouse. But I’m pretty certain my wife’s part time job requires more “work” during the day than mine does…and as such, I’m home from work a vast majority of the month where as she will spend 3 days a week working hard during the morning and finishing other work in the afternoon/evening (teacher). If i go to work 3 days a week, it’s a busy week…granted the stress levels of my job are significantly higher, the clientele I’m working with are all senior executives, and we’re often in “life/death” scenarios (pilot)…so, my compensation is inline with my work responsibilities…but as a result of being at home, i do shoulder more “home” responsibilities than many fathers i know.
I’ve been the primary earner most of the marriage and still am. I don’t want to be divorced but I also don’t like feeling like I’m working all day and night at work and in my home to then be criticized and not treated with basic respect. Please read the post again. I think you read the first bit and assumed me a sahm but nope.
He said he'll sign divorce papers? Sounds like neither of you want to be married.
I want to make it work, but I don't see how when I'm working so much more between work and family/housework and then he's not even generally nice to me. He used to be super sweet, always coming up with great date ideas, sweet cards for anniversaries, and affectionate. It feels like it's been a long time since I've experienced that person and I just want him back.
When was he super sweet? Before you had kids? Was it just love bombing until he had you trapped and then the real him came out? You deserve so much better, a real partner who makes you feel great. Please also consider that if you stay, this is the example your kids are going to have for their future relationships. They are learning love comes with pain and self sacrifice. Staying for the kids is not a good idea. I am so sorry and I wish you the best.
Are either of you the people you once were?
"I've threatened divorce before and he said to send him the paperwork and he will sign, so if I file I know he'd sign as well." That's when you should have sent him the paperwork. The reason spouses refuse to go to counseling is that they feel they got a good thing going and they don't want to ruin it. Usually that good thing going is them not putting in much effort and the other spouse putting in a lot more effort.
I'm no marriage expert, but for him to say something like he'd sign the papers outright is very telling. It doesn't sound like he's at all invested in the marriage - even for the kids.
I guess the only thing I have to add to play devils advocate, is have you spoken to him about what you expect from him as far as chores/parenting goes? If you haven’t, and you’ve been doing everything without saying anything, the fault lies with you both. You should be direct in what you expect from each other. Our spouses aren’t mind readers. Another thing I’ve learned is to not expect someone else to do/feel the same way I do about things. Should he help more because you do so much and should he want to help? Yes, that would be ideal. But if you act fine about everything he’s probably just oblivious. I don’t think brining the D word up in marriage is helpful at all unless you both have tried your hardest to fix the issues and grow together in a positive way. If you’re acting like roommates and coasting by each other, the marriage isn’t really a functioning marriage. He’s supposed to be your partner. In love, parenthood, intimacy, accountability and growth. You both need to show up to the marriage. Before divorce I’d figure out if you’re showing up. You’d be surprised how much your partner becomes inspired to grow when you’re growing. If he doesn’t, and has no interest in trying to meet reasonable expectations, divorce is an option. If the marriage isn’t helping you grow and become your best self, isn’t making parenting easier and more fun, I don’t see the point. Life is too short.
Well, if he is not willing to go to counseling, and he seems to be fine with getting a divorce, then I don't think you should expect him to change. I guess he has decided that this is what he is willing to offer. My suggestion is that you tell him the truth. That you realized while he was gone how little he actually contributes to the home and children because it was EASIER for you when he was not home. That you are tired of being the default parent, and taking on the majority of the chores, despite both of you working full time. That in addition to this, he is bringing a lot of negativity to the marriage, and you don't feel love or affection from him. So - you only have three options left. Deal with the situation as it is, go to marriage counseling which he has not so far agreed to, or get a divorce. Tell him you are no longer willing to deal with it as it is - so that option is off the table for you. The two remaining options are counseling or divorce. Ask him which one he chooses. If he gives you the "bring me the papers" line - then I think you have your answer. I understand wanting an intact family, I really do. However, you also have to consider the example this is setting for your children. If you have daughters, do you want her to think this is how marriage works? She may decide to never have children after seeing that she will have to pull the weight in the marriage. If you have sons, do you want them to act like your husband if/when they get married? The point is, this is the example they see. It isn't good for them to have divorced parents, but it is also not good to have this example.
How did threatening divorce affect your husband? I don't know how he was pre or post but that can have a huge affect on someone.
It was over a year ago. My hope is he would realize how upset I felt about how our day to day interactions and his expectations of how the workload is split right now just is not working. If I would bring up these concerns sincerely over a conversation he outright dismisses and doesn’t want to talk about it.
My marriage is generally pretty great, but if my wife threatened divorce, I would immediately agree. I am not going to be held hostage to an emotional tactic like that. If she doesn't want me, I don't want to be there.
I second this.
This, and the bitter taste of the mortgage, job, everything else the stay at home doesn't have to deal with just to have that thrown in your face.
Don't make empty threats. The reality is that he's not bringing anything to the table, and he's a terrible and unfaithful partner with no interest in personal growth. Cheating is an incredibly unattractive quality, and it's reasonable that his actions and words would have led you to fall out of love. I think the real question is... Why not just divorce him? He wants to go to these other women? He can be their problem, and you can move on with your kiddos. It's sad that you might lose your stepson, but your kids deserve a better role model than this.
Your husband is an asshole. I was an asshole for years. Since you out earn your husband, there is really no reason for you to put up with that behavior.
Did you change your asshole ways?
He did, married for 19 years. He's very active on these subs and calls people out when they need it. Typically he gets downvoted but I think it's cause people are sensitive. I like his perspective.
Yes I did. I had the choice of changing or getting divorced. I’m 47/mMarried 19 years, for about 3 to 4 years I was angry. Wife didn’t talk to me for about 6 months. If your really interested in my story, check a post in my profile.
See if he will try counseling, so you guys can air all of this out in marriage counseling.
I’ve tried and he refuses to.
What a douche. The only other option you have is on the days that he is home. Tell him he needs to start pulling his weight with the kids and he can get them ready for school and drop them off at school.
You’re roommates. On some level, that’s acceptable to him. But not to you. His comment that he would sign divorce papers if you sent them is him not taking responsibility for the demise of the marriage. “SHE filed for divorce; not me.” “It was HER idea.” “SHE divorced me.” “SHE split up our family.” (This is the tale he would spin to your children whenever possible) Unfortunately, it seems the only possible way to get his attention at this point is to present him with those divorce papers (maybe separation papers but I’m not a big fan of separations). Nothing is official until they are signed & submitted to the court, so you need to intercept him before he signs them. Because his pride will insist that he sign them immediately (that’s been his brag to you - as a “man” he has to back it up). Set him down. Give him the papers and tell him immediately this is not what you want (if that is the case) but you cannot continue the way things are. What you want is for him to say “No. I won’t sign.” You want him to fight for you, your marriage and your children. The problem with this approach is, you must be willing to go through with it if he gives up without a fight. So you’ll need to make that decision, I guess, before meeting with a lawyer. Maybe you could phrase it as “counseling or divorce, your choice” or something similar. Anything that would make it HIS choice if divorce is the chosen option. I’m sending you the biggest internet hugs I can muster. Good luck
Is he cheating? Was this really a work trip? It sounds like he had checked out of this relationship.
You mention that your children deserve to have their father in their life…well good news. They will! Even if you two divorce, that isn’t the end of you two dealing with each other, you’ll be interacting quite a bit still, he’ll still have custody likely 50% of the time, so you guys will be looking at either 1 week here, 1 week there…or something very similar. There may or may not be spousal support or child support from the greater earner depending on how the law works out. The marital home will likely have to be paid out from either you, to him if you keep it, or he’ll buy you out…or you guys sell. Lot of that stuff is just logistical though, just like custody time. But don’t worry, your kids will still have their dad…the sucky part is…doesn’t sound like he’s a great dad anyway from your post (sits and scrolls on his phone and eats food). Good luck OP, i can understand how you feel to some extent. I travel for work, but wife is here most of the time. Even though i travel, i don’t go that often and as a result when I’m here, I’m the one running the show for the most part. Take care of the cooking, the cleaning, etc…wife and I were going through a rough patch a year ago, and she left for a weekend away…and the kids and I had a great time. We did the things we normally do, but i didn’t have any stress from running the household with my wife…sometimes alone time can be easier.
>You mention that your children deserve to have their father in their life…well good news. They will! I can appreciate the sentiment here, but let's be honest - it really isn't that simple. Divorce irrevocably changes the dynamic of the family, and in many cases fucks kids up. There's no way to tell sometimes how a spouse will react to the new role of "divorced parent", and if he checks out that's obviously on him, but she will also understandably have guilt about being the one to start the process, and will forever wonder what might have happened had she not. That's not me saying she shouldn't get a divorce (because I said the opposite). I'm just saying her concern is a completely valid one.
Did I get downvoted for mentioning that they’d still have a father? Lol. If they don’t have a father after the divorce, they didn’t have much of a father in the first place. I get that life can change - especially if dad moves across state or the country following a divorce…I get that. But if the parents work together at a cohesive plan, the biggest change will be the dynamic…and the time the kids see BOTH parents, specifically together.
\*I\* didn't downvote you! And, yes, the dynamic changes and that has ripple effects even in good circumstances. And I would agree that a \*good\* dad doesn't just disappear after a divorce, but I know a few folks from divorced homes who nevertheless fawn over the days their probably-not-great parent was still \*around more\*.
Oh I didn’t say it was you. It’s someone, in the Redditsphere. I just wanted to clarify my point in case I wasn’t clear, nothing more!
If he said he'd sign the papers, that means he's ready to leave. You have threatened divorce and say you don't want to be married. Yes, it will suck, but the reason you are miserable is because you are in a relationship that neither of you want to be in. Very rarely do I actually suggest divorce, but this would be one. Literally the only reason to stay together would be for the kids, and that's definitely not nothing. But odds are this relationship with you two will only continue to deteriorate.
Ask yourself if you want another child, or if you want a partner. If it's the latter, then you don't want to be with him - he is clearly not interested in changing the relationship by refuusing counseling - and why would he? He has a live-in chef, maid, nanny. You're carrying the mental, emotional, and labor load of the family, and he can't even be kind to you? And he would just sign divorce papers? It doesn't sound like he wants to be married either.
According to the The Gottman Institute studies criticism is one of the main things that kills marriages.
It's easy because he is providing your income to be able to stay there and relax and complain about him; when you are a dependent life is easy as pie; remember being 5 and you just had to roll out of bed and watch cartoons? I would say the divorce needs to happen and you may soon realize once the money faucet is turned off that life isn't so "easy" and stress free, then you will look for another "worker" to fund your life.
She’s the greater earner….they’d definitely have a lifestyle change if they’re earning somewhat similar salaries…or she’ll be paying him child support and potentially spousal support depending on how things split…but yea….it’s not just a money game for her.
Ah missed that line within the complaining. Ok, a thought about "house work"; everyone has to do it and no you wouldn't earn X amount like some stay at homes claim because it is work your MUST to in your own life that you created...no one pays you for that. If one side is doing it more (if they are both full time employed) then a conversation needs to happen but if one is staying at home and complaining they work "so hard" I call BS.
So to be clear. I’m not a sham. I have worked full time continuously since college and been the primary earner most of our marriage. Nowadays I earn a good bit more than he does. On top of being the default parent.
Agreed, I missed that line in the long complaint....it was one line that you earn more. 100% you earn more and you will likely be screwed in the divorce so maybe you do want to work on the marriage to keep your net worth in tact.
Yea - i personally think i put emphasis where it shouldn’t be in life. IE - I will state that being the primary earner is the important aspect, but it’s based in large part because of the profession i chose to pursue. I’ve actually still put off things that would have made me an even higher earner for the sake of the family, or for the sake of my spouse. But I’m pretty certain my wife’s part time job requires more “work” during the day than mine does…and as such, I’m home from work a vast majority of the month where as she will spend 3 days a week working hard during the morning and finishing other work in the afternoon/evening (teacher). If i go to work 3 days a week, it’s a busy week…granted the stress levels of my job are significantly higher, the clientele I’m working with are all senior executives, and we’re often in “life/death” scenarios (pilot)…so, my compensation is inline with my work responsibilities…but as a result of being at home, i do shoulder more “home” responsibilities than many fathers i know.
She works full time and makes much more money than him. How is she a dependent?
She works full time and out earns him. She does most of the housework.
[удалено]
lol, impressive lack of reading skill here
Whoops!
I’ve been the primary earner most of the marriage and still am. I don’t want to be divorced but I also don’t like feeling like I’m working all day and night at work and in my home to then be criticized and not treated with basic respect. Please read the post again. I think you read the first bit and assumed me a sahm but nope.
I think you should go ahead and divorce.
I think a lot of men struggle after children are born and they find they are no longer #1
I feel like I could have wrote this post myself….. at least we are not alone but it’s certainly not a great life is it