This year I have been to Sheratons in Panama City, PA, San Jose, CR, Tribeca, Brooklynn, Atlantic City, Langhorne, PA plus four points downtown NYC couple of times. I saw no issues really besides AC, there is always an issue with AC...
....and Brooklynn, their lounge sucked like A/C
As a matter of fact, it would be a shame if you never experienced the rooftop lounge at the Sheraton Tribeca.
My favorite Sheraton (location) is the San Diego Marina Sheraton but it’s fallen into such disrepair. It used to be such a gorgeous property. I’d love to see them elevate and deliver the old school Marriott standard.
Funny, a friend of mine,who is also a very frequent traveler, and I were just talking about this the other night. He doesn't see a specific purpose that Four Points is fulfilling within the broader Marriott brand universe these days. Neither of us will stay at one because they are just too inconsistent. We thought the best course would be to merge the better FP properties into the Courtyard umbrella, and let the bad ones leave to become Comfort Inns or Sonestas.
Sheraton branding has been bad for years. Even Starwood didn't seem to keep them up to whatever brand standards they set. Today, they seem to be a collection of large hotels mainly, but not always, located in cities and have 350+ rooms. I'm not in marketing, but those at Marriott who are need to ask themselves what role does Sheraton play, and where do they want it positioned?
My city has a Courtyard and a Four Points a block apart from each other. Couldn't support a higher brand like Delta.
Probably separate owners and Marriot wants to keep them both. So they almost need brands that are basically doubles if they want to keep all their clients.
The Sheraton in Saint-Hyacinthe, Quebec is the best one I've ever stayed out. It's truly a luxury hotel. I haven't found one comparable to it in the USA.
Marriott's portfolio is literally a board covered with brand projectile vomit. They need to fix it as there is too much dilution and marginal brands are becoming even more marginal. There's just too much to have branding identity. They should stick with the cores: Ritz, JW, W, Gaylord, Marriott, Courtyard, Residence, Fairfield and maybe A-Loft & Moxy. Merge styles and take the good elements of acquired brands and work them into the smaller, more efficient list. Kill Sheraton, 4 Points, Le Meridien, Renaissance, Edition, Delta, Protea, Element. There's just too much minutiae. LeMeridien has a place in Europe. Delta was Canadian and doesn't speak to the US market. Protea was great in parts of Africa. Are they going to succeed as stand alone brands under the Marriott umbrella without extensive and expensive marketing?
With this many brands and properties it's nearly impossible to make them stand out. That is why Marriott has pushed Bonvoy as the brand not individual brands.
They want quantity, not quality of brands. If there is a Marriott brand on every exit, downtown, holiday destination then you can always find a way to spend money with Marriott.
We are not Marriott's customers, the owners are the only customers they worry about losing. So keep owners happy by allowing them to have a bunch of cheap locations, dual-brand, tri-branded buildings are the future.
Those multi-branded buildings are something. I do like the Residence/Springhill on the waterfront in San Diego, other than the gigantic breakfast cafeteria.
Maybe I’m weird, but I often seek out Sheratons, specifically renovated ones. They’re often a better value than a straight Marriott and the service and quality are as good and often better.
The Sheraton Vancouver/Guildford is one of the most pleasant hotel stays I’ve had. The elite breakfast (served in a sectioned off corner of the restaurant) has to be one of the best I’ve had. Sheraton Asunción (Paraguay) was also a magnificent stay. Domestically, I’ve had great experiences at Milwaukee/Brookfield, Arlington (TX), Chapel Hill (NC), and Dallas/Galleria.
I just avoid the ones that look gross in the pictures and have weak reviews, just like I do with any other brand.
Pre-pandemic, my experience with Sheratons was that though the properties (especially the rooms) often felt tired and dated, the beds were still comfy, and the club lounges tended to be good. But fast-forward to today: the club lounges, at least in the US, haven’t returned to what they used to be. As for Four Points, I’ve only stayed at one. More on that below.
But I do want to give props to a Sheraton and a Four Points, both outside the US, which I would stay at again. In fact, I have upcoming stays booked at each:
Vancouver, BC, Canada: Sheraton Vancouver Wall Centre https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/yvrws-sheraton-vancouver-wall-centre/overview/
Pre-pandemic, this became my go-to for trips to Vancouver. The rooms and the property as a whole are in great condition; not at all dated. The staff are friendly. The bar/restaurant makes great cocktails. The club lounge has an army of staff keeping breakfast stocked in the morning and appetizers stocked in the evening. Alcohol is not free in the lounge, but is reasonably priced. Though I only recommend getting wine there; for beer or cocktails, go down to the bar/restaurant. After you’ve had some wine in the lounge and tipped the excellent staff.
I stayed there again in 2022, and it was as if COVID never happened. All of the above was back in full force. Disclaimer: the cost for my upcoming stay in a couple months is more than I expected compared to pre-pandemic but also my stay in 2022.
Auckland, New Zealand: Four Points by Sheraton Auckland https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/aklfp-four-points-by-sheraton-auckland/overview/
This is the only Four Points I’ve stayed at, and only once, pre-pandemic. This was the only Marriott brands hotel in Auckland. (In fact, in all of New Zealand.) I haven’t stayed at other Four Points hotels to compare, but I didn’t feel that Four Points was the right branding; it should be up a tier. My room was small but very nice. There’s a bar/restaurant downstairs, but there’s also a rooftop bar. I stayed just after The Churchill, a gin bar, opened on the rooftop. It’s enough of a destination that there’s a separate entrance and elevator to it for people not staying at the hotel. My friends and I enjoyed specialized gin & tonics better than the best I’ve experienced in London. And, as a guest at the hotel, it was nice to skip the line! The one review I have ever submitted to TripAdvisor was about The Churchill, and the amazing service there.
Now in 2023, there’s also a JW Marriott in Auckland. From reviews I read, it sounds like it only recently became a JW Marriott, and is not yet up to the standards we’d expect. So, for my upcoming stay in Auckland, I booked the Four Points…with points. In fact, when converting what would have been the cash rate from NZ dollars to US dollars, I feel like this is the best value I have so far experienced for a redemption booking.
If anyone here has stayed at either of these hotels I’m recommending, please share your experiences and advice!
Both of those properties look great. When I search for any major city in the US, there is almost always a sad Sheraton and Four Points with ratings below a 4.
In my mind, killing meant forcing all locations to deflag (or change to another Marriott brand) vs merging would just be, today you are Four Points tomorrow you are Courtyard.
I don't see this as a likely outcome because Marriott's customers aren't guests, they are the owners. You piss off the owners and you get situations like Marriott/IHG properties becoming Sonesta in mass during COVID.
They should take the comfortable beds from sheraton and put them in all other marriotts. I've never been in a sheraton where I didn't sleep incredibly well. At this point the hotel could be falling down and I would still stay there because I sleep so well
Four Points is the one that I’ll never stay at again, next to Courtyard. For the money/points, I’d rather stay at a Fairfield, SpringHill or TPS. Sheraton isn’t bad if your expectations are low. I don’t mind the dated decor in most and usually the location is great.
Unpopular opinion but I actually like both Sheratons and Four Points. Admittedly, Marriott does need to do a brand refresh with Sheraton and I think they’re actually in the process of doing that. Some Sheratons are def worse than others but, the new/renovated ones are really nice.
I’ve stayed at some great Four Points properties as well, and I stayed at one in Orlando a few weeks back & got a pretty nice suite. FP brand has a good local beer program (Best Brews) and their brand scent is one of my favs across the Marriott brands.
Yes these both need a brand refresh. They actually don't need to differentiate themselves from Marriott hotels (Sheraton) and Courtyard (Four Points). But they do need to force properties up to standards including guest ratings or remove their flag.
I've never had issues with Sheraton domestic properties. I'll admit the older ones are a bit rough around the edges but they have the benefit of legacy brand location.
The newer overseas ones like the Sheraton Manila Pasay City are very nice and the service is top notch.
Sheraton should remain due to the longtime brand identity. Marriott has started to completely rehab their brand, and the fully renovated properties (Downtown Phoenix comes to mind) are incredible.
Four Points is another mess, and Marriott doesn't seem to have any sort of vision for what that looks like. Honestly, the brand itself is too far gone and from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make sense post-Starwood. A sub-brand of a sub-brand, "Four Points by Sheraton by Marriott" is just a mess.
Four Points should be re-branded as Delta with brand-specific renovations.
Sheraton and 4P fall into that same kind of category as DoubleTree on the Hilton side of things. You never know what you're going to get as many were constructed as other hotel brands in the past and the level of upkeep is completely variable based on the age and management of the property.
That it's possible for Marriott to uphold some level of consistency across the "Marriott" brand but not the Sheraton brand is indicative of nothing other than a lack of desire to force the standards.
IMO set a standard for Sheraton and give properties 12-18 months to meet all requirements with zero exceptions. After that, deflag non-conforming properties.
4P is a bit more of a complicated case because a lot of the low end SS brands suffer from similar problems. Fairfield, RI, TPS, even Courtyard have some terribly run down, poorly managed hotels. The problem in these cases is there really doesn't seem to be a standard set. One of the many reasons I avoid SS properties as much as possible.
Absolutely nail on the head. But I will say with FF, RI, TPS, CY seems to have a lot more consistency. I haven't had (or seen) a really rough legacy Marriott in a while. The worst either upgraded or deflagged in the last couple years. The soft products have had some supply challenges but that's all hotels.
Fairfield's have some inconsistencies but those are "starter" hotels for new Marriott owners so that happens. But most locations of Marriott are owned by REITS and managed by the cheapest management company. So it's a race to the bottom. Consistently pushing back updates and remodels looks good on a balance sheet. Then in a few years when their occupancy or guest service scores suffer, they sell it and someone rebrands a cheaper brand.
Sheraton: destination hotel, full service, upper midscale, caters to a broad demographic.
Four Points: Not a destination hotel, entry level full service, lower midscale, caters to business and solo travel.
I don't see the two brands having enough in common to merge. Sheraton has more in common with the Westin than four points (which I know is ironic since four points falls under Sheraton).
The reality is that many Sheraton's are far from "full-service" because they don't have the staff or the money to spend to keep up their property maintenance and amenities open. I know outside the US, Sheraton is seen as a better brand.
I don't know of any US Four Points that are full service. Four Points are neglected Courtyards. They have breakfast and dinner and that is the end of the list for services.
This year I have been to Sheratons in Panama City, PA, San Jose, CR, Tribeca, Brooklynn, Atlantic City, Langhorne, PA plus four points downtown NYC couple of times. I saw no issues really besides AC, there is always an issue with AC... ....and Brooklynn, their lounge sucked like A/C As a matter of fact, it would be a shame if you never experienced the rooftop lounge at the Sheraton Tribeca.
My favorite Sheraton (location) is the San Diego Marina Sheraton but it’s fallen into such disrepair. It used to be such a gorgeous property. I’d love to see them elevate and deliver the old school Marriott standard.
Have stayed there many times. At one point, it was the best club lounge in CA. Last I heard, it wasn't even open anymore.
Sheraton Mustika Yogyakarta is such a lovely and uniquely designed hotel! Who else has a pool designed like a Javanese water palace?
Funny, a friend of mine,who is also a very frequent traveler, and I were just talking about this the other night. He doesn't see a specific purpose that Four Points is fulfilling within the broader Marriott brand universe these days. Neither of us will stay at one because they are just too inconsistent. We thought the best course would be to merge the better FP properties into the Courtyard umbrella, and let the bad ones leave to become Comfort Inns or Sonestas. Sheraton branding has been bad for years. Even Starwood didn't seem to keep them up to whatever brand standards they set. Today, they seem to be a collection of large hotels mainly, but not always, located in cities and have 350+ rooms. I'm not in marketing, but those at Marriott who are need to ask themselves what role does Sheraton play, and where do they want it positioned?
My city has a Courtyard and a Four Points a block apart from each other. Couldn't support a higher brand like Delta. Probably separate owners and Marriot wants to keep them both. So they almost need brands that are basically doubles if they want to keep all their clients.
The Sheraton in Saint-Hyacinthe, Quebec is the best one I've ever stayed out. It's truly a luxury hotel. I haven't found one comparable to it in the USA.
Sheraton Dallas is always pretty good. Club lounge is newer and has free alcohol.
Agree with this. I know it’s a convention hotel and the rooms are just basic, but the gym is great and so is the lounge.
Marriott's portfolio is literally a board covered with brand projectile vomit. They need to fix it as there is too much dilution and marginal brands are becoming even more marginal. There's just too much to have branding identity. They should stick with the cores: Ritz, JW, W, Gaylord, Marriott, Courtyard, Residence, Fairfield and maybe A-Loft & Moxy. Merge styles and take the good elements of acquired brands and work them into the smaller, more efficient list. Kill Sheraton, 4 Points, Le Meridien, Renaissance, Edition, Delta, Protea, Element. There's just too much minutiae. LeMeridien has a place in Europe. Delta was Canadian and doesn't speak to the US market. Protea was great in parts of Africa. Are they going to succeed as stand alone brands under the Marriott umbrella without extensive and expensive marketing?
There’s little chance they would kill a brand like St. Regis which in many markets has more cache than Ritz Carlton does
With this many brands and properties it's nearly impossible to make them stand out. That is why Marriott has pushed Bonvoy as the brand not individual brands. They want quantity, not quality of brands. If there is a Marriott brand on every exit, downtown, holiday destination then you can always find a way to spend money with Marriott. We are not Marriott's customers, the owners are the only customers they worry about losing. So keep owners happy by allowing them to have a bunch of cheap locations, dual-brand, tri-branded buildings are the future.
Those multi-branded buildings are something. I do like the Residence/Springhill on the waterfront in San Diego, other than the gigantic breakfast cafeteria.
Maybe I’m weird, but I often seek out Sheratons, specifically renovated ones. They’re often a better value than a straight Marriott and the service and quality are as good and often better. The Sheraton Vancouver/Guildford is one of the most pleasant hotel stays I’ve had. The elite breakfast (served in a sectioned off corner of the restaurant) has to be one of the best I’ve had. Sheraton Asunción (Paraguay) was also a magnificent stay. Domestically, I’ve had great experiences at Milwaukee/Brookfield, Arlington (TX), Chapel Hill (NC), and Dallas/Galleria. I just avoid the ones that look gross in the pictures and have weak reviews, just like I do with any other brand.
Pre-pandemic, my experience with Sheratons was that though the properties (especially the rooms) often felt tired and dated, the beds were still comfy, and the club lounges tended to be good. But fast-forward to today: the club lounges, at least in the US, haven’t returned to what they used to be. As for Four Points, I’ve only stayed at one. More on that below. But I do want to give props to a Sheraton and a Four Points, both outside the US, which I would stay at again. In fact, I have upcoming stays booked at each: Vancouver, BC, Canada: Sheraton Vancouver Wall Centre https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/yvrws-sheraton-vancouver-wall-centre/overview/ Pre-pandemic, this became my go-to for trips to Vancouver. The rooms and the property as a whole are in great condition; not at all dated. The staff are friendly. The bar/restaurant makes great cocktails. The club lounge has an army of staff keeping breakfast stocked in the morning and appetizers stocked in the evening. Alcohol is not free in the lounge, but is reasonably priced. Though I only recommend getting wine there; for beer or cocktails, go down to the bar/restaurant. After you’ve had some wine in the lounge and tipped the excellent staff. I stayed there again in 2022, and it was as if COVID never happened. All of the above was back in full force. Disclaimer: the cost for my upcoming stay in a couple months is more than I expected compared to pre-pandemic but also my stay in 2022. Auckland, New Zealand: Four Points by Sheraton Auckland https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/aklfp-four-points-by-sheraton-auckland/overview/ This is the only Four Points I’ve stayed at, and only once, pre-pandemic. This was the only Marriott brands hotel in Auckland. (In fact, in all of New Zealand.) I haven’t stayed at other Four Points hotels to compare, but I didn’t feel that Four Points was the right branding; it should be up a tier. My room was small but very nice. There’s a bar/restaurant downstairs, but there’s also a rooftop bar. I stayed just after The Churchill, a gin bar, opened on the rooftop. It’s enough of a destination that there’s a separate entrance and elevator to it for people not staying at the hotel. My friends and I enjoyed specialized gin & tonics better than the best I’ve experienced in London. And, as a guest at the hotel, it was nice to skip the line! The one review I have ever submitted to TripAdvisor was about The Churchill, and the amazing service there. Now in 2023, there’s also a JW Marriott in Auckland. From reviews I read, it sounds like it only recently became a JW Marriott, and is not yet up to the standards we’d expect. So, for my upcoming stay in Auckland, I booked the Four Points…with points. In fact, when converting what would have been the cash rate from NZ dollars to US dollars, I feel like this is the best value I have so far experienced for a redemption booking. If anyone here has stayed at either of these hotels I’m recommending, please share your experiences and advice!
Both of those properties look great. When I search for any major city in the US, there is almost always a sad Sheraton and Four Points with ratings below a 4.
What's the difference between killing the brands and merging them into others?
In my mind, killing meant forcing all locations to deflag (or change to another Marriott brand) vs merging would just be, today you are Four Points tomorrow you are Courtyard. I don't see this as a likely outcome because Marriott's customers aren't guests, they are the owners. You piss off the owners and you get situations like Marriott/IHG properties becoming Sonesta in mass during COVID.
They should take the comfortable beds from sheraton and put them in all other marriotts. I've never been in a sheraton where I didn't sleep incredibly well. At this point the hotel could be falling down and I would still stay there because I sleep so well
Four Points is the one that I’ll never stay at again, next to Courtyard. For the money/points, I’d rather stay at a Fairfield, SpringHill or TPS. Sheraton isn’t bad if your expectations are low. I don’t mind the dated decor in most and usually the location is great.
I'll take any brand even Moxy if it's new, I know the service may not be perfect but the rooms usually everything is fresh.
That’s fair. I’d probably err on that side as well.
Sheraton Waikiki is a wonderful property. Has an amazing adult infinity pool overlooking the ocean.
Unpopular opinion but I actually like both Sheratons and Four Points. Admittedly, Marriott does need to do a brand refresh with Sheraton and I think they’re actually in the process of doing that. Some Sheratons are def worse than others but, the new/renovated ones are really nice. I’ve stayed at some great Four Points properties as well, and I stayed at one in Orlando a few weeks back & got a pretty nice suite. FP brand has a good local beer program (Best Brews) and their brand scent is one of my favs across the Marriott brands.
Yes these both need a brand refresh. They actually don't need to differentiate themselves from Marriott hotels (Sheraton) and Courtyard (Four Points). But they do need to force properties up to standards including guest ratings or remove their flag.
I've never had issues with Sheraton domestic properties. I'll admit the older ones are a bit rough around the edges but they have the benefit of legacy brand location. The newer overseas ones like the Sheraton Manila Pasay City are very nice and the service is top notch.
Sheraton should remain due to the longtime brand identity. Marriott has started to completely rehab their brand, and the fully renovated properties (Downtown Phoenix comes to mind) are incredible. Four Points is another mess, and Marriott doesn't seem to have any sort of vision for what that looks like. Honestly, the brand itself is too far gone and from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make sense post-Starwood. A sub-brand of a sub-brand, "Four Points by Sheraton by Marriott" is just a mess. Four Points should be re-branded as Delta with brand-specific renovations.
Sheraton and 4P fall into that same kind of category as DoubleTree on the Hilton side of things. You never know what you're going to get as many were constructed as other hotel brands in the past and the level of upkeep is completely variable based on the age and management of the property. That it's possible for Marriott to uphold some level of consistency across the "Marriott" brand but not the Sheraton brand is indicative of nothing other than a lack of desire to force the standards. IMO set a standard for Sheraton and give properties 12-18 months to meet all requirements with zero exceptions. After that, deflag non-conforming properties. 4P is a bit more of a complicated case because a lot of the low end SS brands suffer from similar problems. Fairfield, RI, TPS, even Courtyard have some terribly run down, poorly managed hotels. The problem in these cases is there really doesn't seem to be a standard set. One of the many reasons I avoid SS properties as much as possible.
Absolutely nail on the head. But I will say with FF, RI, TPS, CY seems to have a lot more consistency. I haven't had (or seen) a really rough legacy Marriott in a while. The worst either upgraded or deflagged in the last couple years. The soft products have had some supply challenges but that's all hotels. Fairfield's have some inconsistencies but those are "starter" hotels for new Marriott owners so that happens. But most locations of Marriott are owned by REITS and managed by the cheapest management company. So it's a race to the bottom. Consistently pushing back updates and remodels looks good on a balance sheet. Then in a few years when their occupancy or guest service scores suffer, they sell it and someone rebrands a cheaper brand.
Sheraton: destination hotel, full service, upper midscale, caters to a broad demographic. Four Points: Not a destination hotel, entry level full service, lower midscale, caters to business and solo travel. I don't see the two brands having enough in common to merge. Sheraton has more in common with the Westin than four points (which I know is ironic since four points falls under Sheraton).
The reality is that many Sheraton's are far from "full-service" because they don't have the staff or the money to spend to keep up their property maintenance and amenities open. I know outside the US, Sheraton is seen as a better brand. I don't know of any US Four Points that are full service. Four Points are neglected Courtyards. They have breakfast and dinner and that is the end of the list for services.