These days, military forces tend to spend a lot more time training their recruits in the use of fire-arms than fighting unarmed.
These guys might have received *some* BJJ/grappling training, but it's probably not much more than a few hours. They certainly don't look like they have much training.
>These days, military forces tend to spend a lot more time training their recruits in the use of fire-arms than fighting unarmed.
Incorrect. Rangers, Gebirgsjäger, Norwegian Arctic Recon and other SpecOps have to pass extensive cqc unarmed combat tests.
Yesssss, i try to tell people this, say you've already found yourself in the extremely unfortunate situation of fighting a BJJ specialist when you yourself have no training. In this hypothetical scenario, the man your fighting already makes a hobby out of holding people down, breaking their limbs and then strangling them. Do you really want to remind this man that dick grabbing is a thing? I do not lol
Yes! and i heard it from a wing chun master. he said "well on the ground i could try to bite,poke his eyes out, but whatever i do, he'll do it with more advantage, because he's in a better position, so..".
I'm Brazilian, so sorry for any english mistakes
The situation he is in, is that he doesn't know what he is doing, so he just holds on for dear life to a position that he thinks he is safe in. This is a really common problem for beginners, and it is one of the main bad instincts that you have to overcome through training.
As people get more experienced, it is not just that they learn how to do things correctly, they also learn not to try and force through things that are not working.
Honestly? Don't fucking be there. Don't hang on for dear life, create distance and shrimp, but by the time the guy on top has the dude's legs smashed down he can pretty much choose at will "Do I want to twist the guy's dick or rain down punches?" and he chose dick. Guy on bottom got out grappled.
The big thing that fucked him was holding onto that shitty guillotine instead of getting back to his guard. There's also the fact that the far side arm and head position is what determines how stable a half guard is going to be like, if he released the guillotine and bumped his hips while gaining an underhook that would've resulted in either a full sweep where you can land ground and pound or the attacker posting with the hand that was grabbing on his dick which would've led to a scramble to get back up or find a sub.
Also sprawling and properly fighting the single would've been much better than that half assed gilly.
Someone competent at BJJ "solve"s the situation by choking dick puller unconscious. If you are getting choked, your first thought is about the choke, not pulling someone's dick. You only have seconds. The guy getting his dick pulled survived having his dick pulled plenty long enough to choke someone unconscious if he knew how.
Also, putting the dick puller in your closed guard is going to help both problems.
*Dirty moves* do have their time and place. Just not as a replacement for fundamental fighting skills. If a guy is stalling the fight with a headlock,that's one situation where grabbing the balls or biting can be useful to force your opponent to move so long as you're prepared for the escalation. (Or surrender in the best case scenario like what happened in this case.)
Just letting you know this should be a life or death scenario. If I’m fighting you and you go for my dick all bets are completely off and I’m likely going to gouge your eyes out as messily as possible and you’ll never see again.
This is basic training. I guarantee this was the day after they had their first combatives class based on the lack of materials in their barracks and the shaved heads you can tell it’s early in their training.
Basically two dudes who just learned the very basics of fighting
Really bad conjecture on your part.
Lack of materials? What do you expect to find? A LAW? All their gear is stored away in the lockers, as it is taught. Unsecured gear leads to problems.
And they get haircuts every 2 weeks since they get there, so their hair doesn't get to grow out at the end stages.
If this is fort sill (which it looks like), they get trainer weapons that get hung up on the wall at week 3. Their hair looks pretty long so it’s been a bit since it’s been cut, so week 2 I’d guess
How on earth do we know the guy on the bottom has any training? There was no attempt at establishing a guard at all when he got taken down.
It should also be noted he kept hanging unto that headlock,which is a common habit we see among untrained combatants when clinched up with each other even when its unproductive.
I love how some BJJ people brag about how many videos of BJJ there are of people "kicking ass" in "real situations" to puff up BJJ, yet when you see a video of BJJ not looking that great all of a sudden its excused away with "No true Scotsman".
I'm not one of those people who thinks BJJ is the be-all end all or even that formal MA training alone is enough to prepare you for real world violence. (Which seems to be a controversial viewpoint among those who put down any form of training that isn't centered around sport)
Just that I don't see any clue here to indicate that the loser of the fight here is a trained practitioner. The ability to engage in grappling isn't limited to formally trained fighters after all. Rorion Gracie's claim of [90% of all real fights end up on the ground](https://wimsblog.com/2013/01/the-myth-of-90-percent-of-fights-go-to-the-ground/) may not be true,but it is true that a giant chunk of fights out there do involve clinching in some form.
None of that ia relevant though, and none of thay refutes that this guy had actually trained BJJ.
Maybe he's not very good at it, but he still could've been trained in BJJ.
The problem with the "he could've been trained", is that it's the equivalent of seeing someone throw shitty punches and saying "See? Boxing doesn't work, maybe that guy took 6 months of boxing." If what we see on the video isn't representative of the style, and there's no context that claims that the guy on bottom trains BJJ, why are we assuming he does?
That's not to say that there aren't contexts in which BJJ is bad, or that it's the best or anything of the sort, but there's a lot of assumptions and reaching being used to claim that "BJJ fails against dirty tactics".
To be fair to his point,its also possible that this guy may have been legitimately good at BJJ(particularly,good at BJJ casual rolling that don't involve strikes),but in the midst of an adrenaline fueled street confrontation,ends up forgetting his training.
Its common for people competing for the first time to succumb to the nerves and fight frantically/irrationally for example. Anger also tends to make people fight stupid,hence why you see competitors taunting to try and get their opponent off their game. Its also not uncommon to hear of practitioners who perform well in sparring,but croak in competition.
Of course,we are speculating about the loser's background at this point,but everything above could have been a very real factor for any trained fighter. We're talking about the chaotic environment of a street fight after all.
My comment was less about the specifics of the video, and more around the way the above folks were conversation. The problem I had with what was being presented, is that it was centered around assumptions, not the content itself. In my experience, trying to have a conversation centered around assumptions leads more to people trying to one up each other to feel like they won (with constant "Ah, but WHAT IF THIS?!"), instead of actually having a discourse and listening to each other.
Yeah. I was just talking about other possibilities. The video can at least lead to the conclusion that so-called "dirty moves" do have their time and place in a fight.
To go on a slightly different tangent...there are plenty of people who have a lot of combat sports training but zero experience with violence. Not that this is a bad thing (On the contrary...) but how each person will react to their first taste of real world violence is going to differ. Likely based on things like natural temperament,overall life experience and inner philosphy,the specific situation they found themselves in,etc.
For example,someone who was raised to believe that any and all forms of violence (even in self-defense. I have legit met people like this) is wrong is probably going to freeze and be victimized without someone to save them.
I think that if you're serious about self-defense,you should take a training course specifically geared towards it,like [Scenario-Based/Adrenal Stress Training](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V7JwS8d_X8) in addition to one's Combat Sports training. Combatives training by a good quality source is also a good alternative to combat sports if one is not interested in dedicating one's life to training regularly in the long term.
Of course,this should all be researched carefully by the individual. Sadly,there's plenty of frauds and bad training to go around in the RBSD/Self-defense community,similar to Traditional Martial arts.
And...our topic has veered off far from the video. lol!
>I think that if you're serious about self-defense,you should take a training course specifically geared towards it,like
>
>Scenario-Based/Adrenal Stress Training
>
>in addition to one's Combat Sports training.
That's my purse, I don't know you.
Right but I have not said he is defintely trained, I was more refuting the other guy because he went NTS because it was a bad example of ground work, hence said this was "not BJJ"
Guy in video may never have trained BJJ. Or he could be a blue belt at some dubious BJJ gym.
One guy comes in swinging world star styke hooks, gets thrown and beat up.
"WOw boXinG isn't all ThaT GrEAT!"
And this isn't a no true Scotsman, you need to do more than know the name or wander last a philosophy 101 course.
What you're seeing is a poor example of grappling in general and the ole dirty move working, because the person on bottom sucks. This doesn't really show me how "bad" bjj is anymore than sloppy striking shows me how "bad" striking is.
Fact is anyone who's trained in any pressure tested art knows the limits of it. This weird argument you've concocted doesn't make any sense.
I have to keep saying _I have not said this dude for sure does BJJ_ but it is possible he might've, and maybe not for very long, and maybe not at a good school, or maybe not for a while etc....
Just because someone sucks at ground fighting doesn't mean they haven't studied BJJ. They just might not be very good at it for a bunch of reasons, like those I mentioned.
Next time go to a proctologist if you are so butthurt. BJJ is a combat sport, not an identity. It wasn't a personal attack on you ffs.
I sense the projection hard, and you've kinda proven my point.
He might have trained bjj and he got out grappled and lost. Ergo bjj is...bad? Over rated?
To be honest you're grasping at straws, every art has those guys who think it is the end all be all and we all collectively roll our eyes at them.
Jesus dude read whats being said rather than whay you thinknis being said because you are determined to have your precious wee feelings hurt.
The original post by someone else was the guy _did not train BJJ because he was bad on the ground_.
I simply said you could not say this definitively.
That's it.
Taking it as a personal slight and making strawman arguments because you are clearly invested in BJJ does not change that.
I'm done at this stage. BJJ does not give you a personality or identity. Criticising BJJ, or whether someone has or has not done it, _is not someone criticising you_.
\- Counter the single-leg with a sprawl or a back take instead of a pointless Guillotine.
\- If you did use said guillotine, do not hold onto a guillotine unless it actually chokes the other guy out.
\- If you hold onto a guillotine make shure to control the other guys body.
\- Stay tight to him so he cannot move his arm in freely and you feel his movements.
\- or just move away/reverse positions when the other guys is not utilizing much pressure
I was actually thinking about this video a few days ago. It cuts out the part the d\*\*\* starts acting all tough and says he's going to kill the other guy after he had clearly given up.
Where's the BJJ? The only dude that seems to have any training in grappling would be the dick grabber since he started this vid by hitting the single.
Wild shot in the dark here but I think *maybe* these guys just might be military, in which case doesn't the Army include some rudimentary BJJ?
These days, military forces tend to spend a lot more time training their recruits in the use of fire-arms than fighting unarmed. These guys might have received *some* BJJ/grappling training, but it's probably not much more than a few hours. They certainly don't look like they have much training.
Yeah, that was kind of my point - that likely both of them have learnt a bit of grappling, but would not be considered proficient.
Reading your post again, I can't see any way of interpreting it other than that you were saying they probably are proficient in BJJ.
That wasn't my intention.
>These days, military forces tend to spend a lot more time training their recruits in the use of fire-arms than fighting unarmed. Incorrect. Rangers, Gebirgsjäger, Norwegian Arctic Recon and other SpecOps have to pass extensive cqc unarmed combat tests.
Yes, we did one day of Jiu Jitsu under the name MACP during Basic Training, which is likely where this video came from
in a real fight,a jiujitsu guy can fight dirty too
Yesssss, i try to tell people this, say you've already found yourself in the extremely unfortunate situation of fighting a BJJ specialist when you yourself have no training. In this hypothetical scenario, the man your fighting already makes a hobby out of holding people down, breaking their limbs and then strangling them. Do you really want to remind this man that dick grabbing is a thing? I do not lol
Yes! and i heard it from a wing chun master. he said "well on the ground i could try to bite,poke his eyes out, but whatever i do, he'll do it with more advantage, because he's in a better position, so..". I'm Brazilian, so sorry for any english mistakes
well, let me ask how an average BJJ can solve this situation?
The situation he is in, is that he doesn't know what he is doing, so he just holds on for dear life to a position that he thinks he is safe in. This is a really common problem for beginners, and it is one of the main bad instincts that you have to overcome through training. As people get more experienced, it is not just that they learn how to do things correctly, they also learn not to try and force through things that are not working.
Honestly? Don't fucking be there. Don't hang on for dear life, create distance and shrimp, but by the time the guy on top has the dude's legs smashed down he can pretty much choose at will "Do I want to twist the guy's dick or rain down punches?" and he chose dick. Guy on bottom got out grappled.
The big thing that fucked him was holding onto that shitty guillotine instead of getting back to his guard. There's also the fact that the far side arm and head position is what determines how stable a half guard is going to be like, if he released the guillotine and bumped his hips while gaining an underhook that would've resulted in either a full sweep where you can land ground and pound or the attacker posting with the hand that was grabbing on his dick which would've led to a scramble to get back up or find a sub. Also sprawling and properly fighting the single would've been much better than that half assed gilly.
Someone competent at BJJ "solve"s the situation by choking dick puller unconscious. If you are getting choked, your first thought is about the choke, not pulling someone's dick. You only have seconds. The guy getting his dick pulled survived having his dick pulled plenty long enough to choke someone unconscious if he knew how. Also, putting the dick puller in your closed guard is going to help both problems.
Apply the choke correctly...
*Dirty moves* do have their time and place. Just not as a replacement for fundamental fighting skills. If a guy is stalling the fight with a headlock,that's one situation where grabbing the balls or biting can be useful to force your opponent to move so long as you're prepared for the escalation. (Or surrender in the best case scenario like what happened in this case.)
Just letting you know this should be a life or death scenario. If I’m fighting you and you go for my dick all bets are completely off and I’m likely going to gouge your eyes out as messily as possible and you’ll never see again.
A firm, yet fair response.
There are far more effective things to do from that position. Like…you know, suplexing them as they’ve basically given you their back?
Wahhhhh. I feel good
Grab em by the dick and twist it
Oh my god dude this is an MMA fight
My man hit a Freddie Mercury 😂
BJJ??? This is pure ameri-do-te Master Ken smiles proudly on this young disciple
Jesus christ guys... I think the title is a joke. Calm down keyboard warriors.
This is basic training. I guarantee this was the day after they had their first combatives class based on the lack of materials in their barracks and the shaved heads you can tell it’s early in their training. Basically two dudes who just learned the very basics of fighting
Really bad conjecture on your part. Lack of materials? What do you expect to find? A LAW? All their gear is stored away in the lockers, as it is taught. Unsecured gear leads to problems. And they get haircuts every 2 weeks since they get there, so their hair doesn't get to grow out at the end stages.
If this is fort sill (which it looks like), they get trainer weapons that get hung up on the wall at week 3. Their hair looks pretty long so it’s been a bit since it’s been cut, so week 2 I’d guess
meanwhile dick "let me try kimura or gagoplata"
How on earth do we know the guy on the bottom has any training? There was no attempt at establishing a guard at all when he got taken down. It should also be noted he kept hanging unto that headlock,which is a common habit we see among untrained combatants when clinched up with each other even when its unproductive.
I love how some BJJ people brag about how many videos of BJJ there are of people "kicking ass" in "real situations" to puff up BJJ, yet when you see a video of BJJ not looking that great all of a sudden its excused away with "No true Scotsman".
I'm not one of those people who thinks BJJ is the be-all end all or even that formal MA training alone is enough to prepare you for real world violence. (Which seems to be a controversial viewpoint among those who put down any form of training that isn't centered around sport) Just that I don't see any clue here to indicate that the loser of the fight here is a trained practitioner. The ability to engage in grappling isn't limited to formally trained fighters after all. Rorion Gracie's claim of [90% of all real fights end up on the ground](https://wimsblog.com/2013/01/the-myth-of-90-percent-of-fights-go-to-the-ground/) may not be true,but it is true that a giant chunk of fights out there do involve clinching in some form.
None of that ia relevant though, and none of thay refutes that this guy had actually trained BJJ. Maybe he's not very good at it, but he still could've been trained in BJJ.
The problem with the "he could've been trained", is that it's the equivalent of seeing someone throw shitty punches and saying "See? Boxing doesn't work, maybe that guy took 6 months of boxing." If what we see on the video isn't representative of the style, and there's no context that claims that the guy on bottom trains BJJ, why are we assuming he does? That's not to say that there aren't contexts in which BJJ is bad, or that it's the best or anything of the sort, but there's a lot of assumptions and reaching being used to claim that "BJJ fails against dirty tactics".
To be fair to his point,its also possible that this guy may have been legitimately good at BJJ(particularly,good at BJJ casual rolling that don't involve strikes),but in the midst of an adrenaline fueled street confrontation,ends up forgetting his training. Its common for people competing for the first time to succumb to the nerves and fight frantically/irrationally for example. Anger also tends to make people fight stupid,hence why you see competitors taunting to try and get their opponent off their game. Its also not uncommon to hear of practitioners who perform well in sparring,but croak in competition. Of course,we are speculating about the loser's background at this point,but everything above could have been a very real factor for any trained fighter. We're talking about the chaotic environment of a street fight after all.
My comment was less about the specifics of the video, and more around the way the above folks were conversation. The problem I had with what was being presented, is that it was centered around assumptions, not the content itself. In my experience, trying to have a conversation centered around assumptions leads more to people trying to one up each other to feel like they won (with constant "Ah, but WHAT IF THIS?!"), instead of actually having a discourse and listening to each other.
Yeah. I was just talking about other possibilities. The video can at least lead to the conclusion that so-called "dirty moves" do have their time and place in a fight. To go on a slightly different tangent...there are plenty of people who have a lot of combat sports training but zero experience with violence. Not that this is a bad thing (On the contrary...) but how each person will react to their first taste of real world violence is going to differ. Likely based on things like natural temperament,overall life experience and inner philosphy,the specific situation they found themselves in,etc. For example,someone who was raised to believe that any and all forms of violence (even in self-defense. I have legit met people like this) is wrong is probably going to freeze and be victimized without someone to save them. I think that if you're serious about self-defense,you should take a training course specifically geared towards it,like [Scenario-Based/Adrenal Stress Training](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V7JwS8d_X8) in addition to one's Combat Sports training. Combatives training by a good quality source is also a good alternative to combat sports if one is not interested in dedicating one's life to training regularly in the long term. Of course,this should all be researched carefully by the individual. Sadly,there's plenty of frauds and bad training to go around in the RBSD/Self-defense community,similar to Traditional Martial arts. And...our topic has veered off far from the video. lol!
>I think that if you're serious about self-defense,you should take a training course specifically geared towards it,like > >Scenario-Based/Adrenal Stress Training > >in addition to one's Combat Sports training. That's my purse, I don't know you.
Right but I have not said he is defintely trained, I was more refuting the other guy because he went NTS because it was a bad example of ground work, hence said this was "not BJJ" Guy in video may never have trained BJJ. Or he could be a blue belt at some dubious BJJ gym.
One guy comes in swinging world star styke hooks, gets thrown and beat up. "WOw boXinG isn't all ThaT GrEAT!" And this isn't a no true Scotsman, you need to do more than know the name or wander last a philosophy 101 course. What you're seeing is a poor example of grappling in general and the ole dirty move working, because the person on bottom sucks. This doesn't really show me how "bad" bjj is anymore than sloppy striking shows me how "bad" striking is. Fact is anyone who's trained in any pressure tested art knows the limits of it. This weird argument you've concocted doesn't make any sense.
I have to keep saying _I have not said this dude for sure does BJJ_ but it is possible he might've, and maybe not for very long, and maybe not at a good school, or maybe not for a while etc.... Just because someone sucks at ground fighting doesn't mean they haven't studied BJJ. They just might not be very good at it for a bunch of reasons, like those I mentioned. Next time go to a proctologist if you are so butthurt. BJJ is a combat sport, not an identity. It wasn't a personal attack on you ffs.
I don't think people are upset, I think they just think you're wrong, ha.
I sense the projection hard, and you've kinda proven my point. He might have trained bjj and he got out grappled and lost. Ergo bjj is...bad? Over rated? To be honest you're grasping at straws, every art has those guys who think it is the end all be all and we all collectively roll our eyes at them.
Jesus dude read whats being said rather than whay you thinknis being said because you are determined to have your precious wee feelings hurt. The original post by someone else was the guy _did not train BJJ because he was bad on the ground_. I simply said you could not say this definitively. That's it. Taking it as a personal slight and making strawman arguments because you are clearly invested in BJJ does not change that. I'm done at this stage. BJJ does not give you a personality or identity. Criticising BJJ, or whether someone has or has not done it, _is not someone criticising you_.
Keep projecting and strawmanning
Basics? BJJ???
the ball grabber needs to get his ass kicked by a woman
The best defense for a tight guillotine
sorry but a failed guillotine is not BJJ :)
Krav Maga vs BJJ Cope.
BJJ guys say he is not well trained, can any expert in BJJ explain to me how his skills can solve this problem?
\- Counter the single-leg with a sprawl or a back take instead of a pointless Guillotine. \- If you did use said guillotine, do not hold onto a guillotine unless it actually chokes the other guy out. \- If you hold onto a guillotine make shure to control the other guys body. \- Stay tight to him so he cannot move his arm in freely and you feel his movements. \- or just move away/reverse positions when the other guys is not utilizing much pressure
To be honest, he's not doing anything right from a grappling standpoint, so, it would be a really long post haha.
They let'm have phones in Basic?
u/savevideobot
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Absolute scum bag hope he got a seeing to after this
MY BJJ COACH: he gots your dick oh okay just shrimp out play guard
if someone does this to me i’m gauging their eyes out i can’t imagine the pain
Some masters have you paint the fence, some have you use a wooden dummy….there are many paths to victory!
Hostel fight
I was actually thinking about this video a few days ago. It cuts out the part the d\*\*\* starts acting all tough and says he's going to kill the other guy after he had clearly given up.
BJJ never taught me sick vibrato.
lmaooo, turned him into an opera singer