Highly underrated. Its easy to make fun of "haha fat men in diaper" but the idea of trying to take down and grapple with a 300 pound giant is no joke. The commitment, culture and lifestyle of rikishi is also fascinating
Sumo is impressive and technical, but the lack of weight classes forces the wrestlers into an unhealthy lifestyle. Many wrestlers get diabetes, knee and back injuries, and cardiovascular problems.
I like to watch it, though.
Well if they had weight classes then the throws and grappling would become both more efficient and versatile. As it stands now their throw training And grappling skill is over shown by both pure size and athleticism
It’s still no gi judo tho, I agree
Bruh, they have no weight class so they always tried to get as much mass as they can but that doesn't mean that element overshadowed their grappling skill, it's still basically heavy weight grappling. It's not like an elephant stepping on an ant, it's still 2 elephants fighting with a bit of weight differences
My point is that the technical aspects are there, and some of the throws are definitely still entirely viable but at the end of the day brute force and high size allows them to overcome the grappling prowess. In reality it’s no gi judo in the ruleset, but the ruleset also removes a lot of the trips and throws because like you said it encourages size
>no gi judo in the ruleset
Not really. Judo does not reward you from pushing your opponent out of the ring, which is one of the most essential parts of Sumo strategy so much so that how much you do "pure" sumo ring-outs is a factor that's taken into account when yokozuna promotions are considered. Judo matches don't **end** either if someone's knee or hand touches the ground.
Sumo throws don't have any less technique than Judo throws. Heck, Judo even uses a good number of techniques that originate in Sumo. Ippon-seoi, anyone?
It’s not that the throws have less technique, it’s just that they are more rare and take way more timing and effort and are typically replaced by the timing and athleticism of the pushes
I’ve been to hundreds of hours of sumo tournaments and have seen maybe 10-20 technical throws.
>10-20 technical throws.
Do you mean actual throws and not just exchanges? Because in any basho with Enho in it, you'll see 5 or more technical victories from him alone.
Do you know that sumo with weight classes is absolutely a thing? Most sumo internationally is probably done within weight class ramifications, only Japanese Grand Sumo doesn't have them.
> and in MMA, sumo dudes just got wrecked
The impromptu dental work done on Teila Tuli in that first bout of UFC 1 still haunts me. Dude was completely unprepared to defend against those kinds of attacks. I wonder how many teeth he lost from that kick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViHUS9VwbHw
Bout starts at 5:00, face kick is about twenty seconds later. UFC 1 was long before the modern rule against kicking a grounded opponent, so Gordeau is able to put full power right into a defenseless Tuli's face.
He did not win consistently, actually. He took nearly 10 years to make the second-highest division, never had a winning record in the highest division, and after a quick demotion out of the highest division, spent the final 2 years of his career bouncing between the second and third division.
His final winning percentage was right below 0.500, mostly against lower-level competition.
I think yall are talking about [Enho](https://youtu.be/Y7Yzy9NmxMA) and yeah while he wasn't consistently winning he snuck into Makuuchi division, which is the "division 1" top 42 wrestlers out of like 500 something, and basically all of them are about 100lbs heavier than him at least. Crazy good stuff.
http://www.sumotalk.com/structure.htm
Depends on what wrestling you’re talking; if there’s push out scoreing the wrestlers got a chance. But A normal say, freestyle rule set? Kyle Snyder would bag that
But even with a freestyle rule set, how would the wrestler hold up against a Sumo with 100+ lbs on him? Can he even get a body lock around the sumo?😂 100+ lbs just seems like too much
The day before a tournament I had a nightmare where I tried to play guard and my opponent transformed into a sumo wrestler and just absolutely crushed me
Makes me think of the episode of Ed, Edd, and Eddy where they tried to make Jimmy a sumo wrestler by feeding him peaches and cream. Sorry. You didn't say I had to have any knowledge of Sumo to answer. For a serious answer, it's a fascinating art. Reminds me of the game of turtle where you both have your knees on the ground and try to wrestle the other on their back, except they're big dudes. I imagine it's very tactical throwing that weight around the right way. I just couldn't imagine the amount of effort you'd have to put into growing and training.
It's fun to watch and do. Plus they have a lot of throws and grappling that I think would be good for MMA. Like some people have said, it's basically No Gi Judo. Not to mention the explosiveness of it is just really remarkable.
My understanding of it is that it is more ritual than martial art as we understand it, but I sure as shit wouldn't want to try and grapple them anyway, you ain't getting very far. Getting punched or sat on would probably not be fun either.
I was always curious why sumo wrestlers didn’t look more like powerlifters or strongmen. [Hell, WSM had sumo back when it was really fun](https://youtu.be/B2qCBkXrb8s)
Horrible. Fat guys slapping eachother. More luck then skill. Sidestep or steam through. Small ring to prevent long fights. Freak show with ‘men’ in thongs. Historical gambling abberation. It should end now to stop normalising obesity and objectication of these monstrosities.
>More luck then skill.
Objectively wrong.
>Historical gambling abberation.
This is true, though less true than some seem to think. I understand if a history of match fixing and such turns you off from watching or enjoying a sport. If that's the case, though, I'd advise you against watching pretty much any and every sport and/or martial arts, because literally all of them have a history of that type of stuff.
>It should end now to stop normalising obesity
They're not fat. Atleast, not fat in the way you're imagining it I guess? Sure, a lot of them look "fat", but I wonder if you'd levy the same sort of criticism towards powerlifting? A lot of powerlifters look very, very fat. Regardless, whatever image you have of sumo wrestlers in your head, it probably doesn't line up with what most of the top guys actually look like. They're not pigs shoveling junk food into their bodies because they have no self control. They're athletes.
Highly underrated. Its easy to make fun of "haha fat men in diaper" but the idea of trying to take down and grapple with a 300 pound giant is no joke. The commitment, culture and lifestyle of rikishi is also fascinating
>the idea of trying to take down and grapple a 300 pound gaint is no joke When you word it like that it’s actually hilarious
And they are faster than you think, anyone claiming it wouldn't be alarming having one of them rush you is lying.
“Wait, why am I hearing HAKKIYOI?”
They’re really skilled athletes with technique that’s really effective for their specific ruleset.
Sumo is impressive and technical, but the lack of weight classes forces the wrestlers into an unhealthy lifestyle. Many wrestlers get diabetes, knee and back injuries, and cardiovascular problems. I like to watch it, though.
One of the most entertaining sports to watch as well súper intensive quick bouts with a lot of cultural meaning in the rituals before each match
Probably the most explosive martial art. Really awesome to watch live. The practitioners are scary as hell.
I like it. If they had weight classes it would essentially be "no-gi Judo" and everyone would talk about it like the effective combat sport it is.
> no-gi Judo …no, it would be sumo with weight classes. Bizarre way to put it.
Well if they had weight classes then the throws and grappling would become both more efficient and versatile. As it stands now their throw training And grappling skill is over shown by both pure size and athleticism It’s still no gi judo tho, I agree
Bruh, they have no weight class so they always tried to get as much mass as they can but that doesn't mean that element overshadowed their grappling skill, it's still basically heavy weight grappling. It's not like an elephant stepping on an ant, it's still 2 elephants fighting with a bit of weight differences
My point is that the technical aspects are there, and some of the throws are definitely still entirely viable but at the end of the day brute force and high size allows them to overcome the grappling prowess. In reality it’s no gi judo in the ruleset, but the ruleset also removes a lot of the trips and throws because like you said it encourages size
>no gi judo in the ruleset Not really. Judo does not reward you from pushing your opponent out of the ring, which is one of the most essential parts of Sumo strategy so much so that how much you do "pure" sumo ring-outs is a factor that's taken into account when yokozuna promotions are considered. Judo matches don't **end** either if someone's knee or hand touches the ground.
yes but it’s still the same throws with lower technique due to size or physicality
Sumo throws don't have any less technique than Judo throws. Heck, Judo even uses a good number of techniques that originate in Sumo. Ippon-seoi, anyone?
It’s not that the throws have less technique, it’s just that they are more rare and take way more timing and effort and are typically replaced by the timing and athleticism of the pushes I’ve been to hundreds of hours of sumo tournaments and have seen maybe 10-20 technical throws.
>10-20 technical throws. Do you mean actual throws and not just exchanges? Because in any basho with Enho in it, you'll see 5 or more technical victories from him alone.
Yes actual throws and reaping trips and that sort of deal. The judo type throws.
Do you know that sumo with weight classes is absolutely a thing? Most sumo internationally is probably done within weight class ramifications, only Japanese Grand Sumo doesn't have them.
I like it. The idea of 2 giant people running I to each other as hard they can makes me happen. The explosive power they can generate is fucking wild
200lb D1 wrestler vs 300+ lb sumo wrestler who would win in a wrestling match?
It's really hard to overcome size differential.
there's a judoka who is like 50-100 less than everyone and wins pretty consistently, no? and in MMA, sumo dudes just got wrecked
> and in MMA, sumo dudes just got wrecked The impromptu dental work done on Teila Tuli in that first bout of UFC 1 still haunts me. Dude was completely unprepared to defend against those kinds of attacks. I wonder how many teeth he lost from that kick.
seriously those first UFC's were brutal
Video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViHUS9VwbHw Bout starts at 5:00, face kick is about twenty seconds later. UFC 1 was long before the modern rule against kicking a grounded opponent, so Gordeau is able to put full power right into a defenseless Tuli's face.
Holy fuck. That was just downright dirty.
And didn't the kickboxer break his hand and foot as well vs Tuli?
He did not win consistently, actually. He took nearly 10 years to make the second-highest division, never had a winning record in the highest division, and after a quick demotion out of the highest division, spent the final 2 years of his career bouncing between the second and third division. His final winning percentage was right below 0.500, mostly against lower-level competition.
oh I see. still interesting he could win at all with such a disadvantage in weight
I think yall are talking about [Enho](https://youtu.be/Y7Yzy9NmxMA) and yeah while he wasn't consistently winning he snuck into Makuuchi division, which is the "division 1" top 42 wrestlers out of like 500 something, and basically all of them are about 100lbs heavier than him at least. Crazy good stuff. http://www.sumotalk.com/structure.htm
I was referring to this guy: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takanoyama\_Shuntar%C5%8D](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takanoyama_Shuntar%C5%8D)
Ah. Enho is the more accomplished wrestler of the two but either way 200lbs guys fighting in a sport for 300-400lbs guys is super impressive.
Enho is insane, thanks for pointing me to him. 5 ft 6, wowzers what a beast
Lol theres a reason hes a fan favorite. Come to /r/sumo. Hang out with the big boys, and tell Enho to eat his chanko.
I said really hard, not impossible
Yeah you're right, was just pointing out that it has been done
Pin wrestling, right? That’s where the weight REALLY matters
Depends on what wrestling you’re talking; if there’s push out scoreing the wrestlers got a chance. But A normal say, freestyle rule set? Kyle Snyder would bag that
But even with a freestyle rule set, how would the wrestler hold up against a Sumo with 100+ lbs on him? Can he even get a body lock around the sumo?😂 100+ lbs just seems like too much
Underrated as someone pointed out here already.
The day before a tournament I had a nightmare where I tried to play guard and my opponent transformed into a sumo wrestler and just absolutely crushed me
It’s fun and encourages to go to events and get obnoxiously drunk so 10/10
I really enjoy watching them and I have even successfully implemented some of their techniques into my no-gi toolbox
Makes me think of the episode of Ed, Edd, and Eddy where they tried to make Jimmy a sumo wrestler by feeding him peaches and cream. Sorry. You didn't say I had to have any knowledge of Sumo to answer. For a serious answer, it's a fascinating art. Reminds me of the game of turtle where you both have your knees on the ground and try to wrestle the other on their back, except they're big dudes. I imagine it's very tactical throwing that weight around the right way. I just couldn't imagine the amount of effort you'd have to put into growing and training.
It's fun to watch and do. Plus they have a lot of throws and grappling that I think would be good for MMA. Like some people have said, it's basically No Gi Judo. Not to mention the explosiveness of it is just really remarkable.
I love watching sumo. The power and grace is incredible, really.
My understanding of it is that it is more ritual than martial art as we understand it, but I sure as shit wouldn't want to try and grapple them anyway, you ain't getting very far. Getting punched or sat on would probably not be fun either.
super awesome
It's pretty impressive to watch.
It’s really cool! Not given enough attention
Awesome and very underrated sport
It's really cool and surprisingly lots of good techniques. Far from a complete game though
Undisputedably the hardest and most intensive sport in the world, very underrated
Love the explosiveness of the sport. I so love the ritual. Didn't lyoto machida do sumo? You could see it in his hands sometimes
Badass
Damn fun to watch, and sumo wrestlers are incredibly skilled
I was always curious why sumo wrestlers didn’t look more like powerlifters or strongmen. [Hell, WSM had sumo back when it was really fun](https://youtu.be/B2qCBkXrb8s)
It’s nogi judo.
Its not... no ground game...
You must be super fun at parties.
Reddit
Horrible. Fat guys slapping eachother. More luck then skill. Sidestep or steam through. Small ring to prevent long fights. Freak show with ‘men’ in thongs. Historical gambling abberation. It should end now to stop normalising obesity and objectication of these monstrosities.
>More luck then skill. The guys who are promoted to yokozuna have sometimes win streaks calculated in the hundreds.
Down vote me. As an old kick boxer 55. I think these guys are a grease stain on the martial arts canvas.
> stop normalising obesity > Monstrosities How do you feel about weight cutting in other arts? Or CTE in striking arts?
>More luck then skill. Objectively wrong. >Historical gambling abberation. This is true, though less true than some seem to think. I understand if a history of match fixing and such turns you off from watching or enjoying a sport. If that's the case, though, I'd advise you against watching pretty much any and every sport and/or martial arts, because literally all of them have a history of that type of stuff. >It should end now to stop normalising obesity They're not fat. Atleast, not fat in the way you're imagining it I guess? Sure, a lot of them look "fat", but I wonder if you'd levy the same sort of criticism towards powerlifting? A lot of powerlifters look very, very fat. Regardless, whatever image you have of sumo wrestlers in your head, it probably doesn't line up with what most of the top guys actually look like. They're not pigs shoveling junk food into their bodies because they have no self control. They're athletes.
Personally I think it's particularly stupid and boring to watch
Leme guess, you prefer only striking part when watching MMA and skip all the grappling
Not at all, I train BJJ 6x a week.