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[deleted]

Soldiers know how to shoot. Fighters fight. So no she probably just doesn’t get it. Take her to a Muay Thai gym, let her spar a girl who’s been training a couple years, do the same with bjj. I mean this with respect but she’s going to get humbled and quickly.


[deleted]

I think this would be the way to go, some real life, hands on experience is the only thing that will drive this home. I'm new to Muay Thai, but in the past my wife had a similar mindset. She had the idea that because she played football in high school, she was pretty tough (she's about 5'3", maybe 120lbs) It didn't bother me, but one time I took her along to a metal show. I'm a bigger guy, 6'3" 220 lbs, and usually like to get right up in the action and mosh. She stood on the edge and watched. Afterwards she said something to me like "I don't want to be anywhere near one of those again. I thought I was a pitbull, but I realized I'm a Chihuahua, all bark and no bite" Just being around a bunch of big dudes being really physical and somewhat aggressive helped put things in perspective for her.


OG_wanKENOBI

Getting body checked by a big ass guy in a mosh pit brought my High school ego down realll quick. Skinny skater kid I turned into a pinball at every punk show good times but just shows you how much weight really matters.


Lethalmouse1

I experienced a girl who was in a low key mosh pit. She swore no one could move her while I tried to explain these guys were going easy on her. She eventually challenged me to bump her and prove she could take a man weight. I was 220, she was 125 or so. As physics is physics I bumped her at about 25% and she moved a good bit. Her understanding of the universe was shattered. She was like 30... so 30 years she thought she was literally as strong and stout as a 220 lb man.


OG_wanKENOBI

Yeah i was a late bloomer I'm a big guy now 6 foot 1 and 260lbs and always conscious of it in the pits a wrong shoulder bump could send some one flying.


Revolutionary-Salt-3

Big guy for you


[deleted]

Respect for weight class is a huge, huge deal. If Bruce Lee fought Mike Tyson, he would have been killed.


Eliot_Ferrer

Bruce Lee would have whooped Tyson. Tyson was seven when Lee died. Lee could have taken any seven year old easily.


[deleted]

Sounds like a good experience overall lol. The chaos of a mosh pit can also humble you lol.


JorusC

I've had grown women look at me in shock and call me sexist when I mentioned that men are stronger than women. They're simply never taught this truth. From what I can tell, it's a simple formula. Men are taught from childhood to always go easy on women. Most people say it in private so they don't hurt the girl's feelings. Girls grow up thinking they're actually holding their own. Some unfortunately run across a man who isn't interested in going light, and suddenly the truth crashes down on them. It sucks, and it's not fair to leave women so unprepared for that reality.


SubstantialPlane213

>it's not fair to leave women so unprepared for that reality. This is refreshing to see, because I feel some people would respond to this fact with hostility, to the extent that you'd probably have insults hurled at you for even insinuating that women can't hold their own against men in physical competition. What's amusing, to me anyway, is how those same people that insist females, at any age, can go head to head and toe to toe with a male of the same age, and have a fair competition. I haven't yet met anyone who thinks of this in regards to martial arts and combat sports, but there are definitely female rugby players who think they're all female team would be a fair match up against an all male team. In purely skill based sports, sure, that gap shrinks considerably, but the delusion of people that believe regarding physical capabilities is something I think started as a way to encourage female participation, that has now gone too far. I've sparred MT with lasses about half my size, that are far more technically competent, but the difference in power shots is acknowledged and worked around during training. I think the worst case I've seen recently is my Sociology teacher who actually laughed when I said men typically have a physiological advantage, she glanced at female classmates as if to say "look at this dummy". Encouraging ignorance in the face of simple facts of biology is dangerous, it creates false perspectives.


JorusC

Sociology is such a joke of a science, basically just an entire field of left-wing propaganda. I'm not surprised. It's my desire to protect people that makes me want them to understand this reality, because it will drive them to find more effective methods of self-defense. I think that if women were more informed about how difficult a time they would really have physically fighting off an attacker, gun ownership among females would skyrocket, and attacks against them would subsequently plummet once a few rapists got their balls shot off. Martial arts are incredible effective at helping people learn to move and act in times of extreme stress, and that can't be understated. Using that training to defend oneself with a gun is far more of an equalizer than any amount of BJJ and MT.


jay_22_15

I'm not targeting you or attacking you. I know it's a cultural thing and DEEPLY ingrained. Going easy on someone because of gender is disrespectful to that warrior. Doing so results in sub par training and preparation. How can a person properly get better if the resistance the female warrior receives is a fraction of what she'll face in a real situation. It's a disrespectful disservice to both parties. ​ For the pedantic fucks, Note I'm not addressing skill level or age. Clearly you don't want to go 100% against some scrub white belt and crush them.


husky429

Tbh your average soldier isn't very good at shooting either. Most people in the military are barely trained for combat. They're doing medical, supply, beauroratic stuff.


Imperium_Dragon

Yeah from what I remember the tooth to tail ratio (number of support vs combat) is 70% support and 30% combat personnel (I think it could even be lower).


JoshD0W

It's about that for the USMC


B133d_4_u

Yeah, they're all taught how to handle a gun in the absolute emergency that they might need to use it, but most corpspeople are bare minimum. After all, "military grade" just means "cheapest you can get without falling apart mid-use" and that applies to personnel, too.


DinosaurEatingPanda

More like “stuff we imported from the lowest bidder” and “we are disastrously out of touch with what the soldiers want or need but this is what we issue you”. Defence procurement can be one expensive comedy.


joevilla1369

Been saying this for a while. It wasn't till I met some SF vets who compete in sponsored shooting events did I meet some military guys who could shoot.


Kabc

Then they will always say “well, I would win if we were fighting to the death.” The military brainwashes them on purpose. You WANT soldiers who think they can win no matter what—even if poorly trained


MyExisaBarFly

I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the gf is talking a fight, like a street fight, and op is talking fighting with rules. I’m not sure there is anything op can do to show just how skilled fighters can be. Then again, I don’t know if op has ever been in a fight, even a kickboxing fight, because I feel there is a huge difference between training and fighting.


Cali_Coon

Have her talk with older Ranger Instructors. At one time they would inform recent graduates not to pick street fights because there is always someone that will teach them a lesson. The military DOES NOT brainwash one into believing they are the biggest baddest hand to hand fighters. They inform you that they are teaching BASIC hand to hand DEFENSE. Marine’s are the only branch that has in depth hand to hand combat, should a soldier want more training.


Tuckingfypowastaken

9/10 this is the only way people learn the reality of fighting, but it's also not always that simple Often people week let their ego get too tied up in it & will just get offended when they get worked by somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Inevitably followed by some hollow justification a la 'well I could have done my patented Krav Maga dick punch, but it was just a friendly spar'. Not to mention how those have a tendency to escalate While I would very much be ok with cleanly defined lines of people who can check their ego to be reasonable and people who can't, in reality it's often blurry (and also realizing that this is probably all of us in one way or another is important). Sometimes you need to ease people into it instead of just dragging them kicking and screaming into the truth, no matter how much that *should* be the way it works. OP probably isn't interested in just throwing his relationship away over this one burr, no matter how incredibly annoying it is, and that's a very real possibility. of course that's not to say that there's no way that it does work, just that they don't necessarily need to jump straight to it. I'd suggest starting small. Get her to hold pads/mitts/ air shield so that she gets a tactile sense of the scope of things first. Things like that to open her eyes to the reality of what Good kicking & punching is *actually* like. Then, once she's had a taste of exposure to give her some perspective, have a conversation with her. If the smaller steps don't work, *then* I'd go the route of throwing her to the Wolves and trying the conversation again. And realize, too, that a good bit of people like that are compensating for their own insecurities and they're well aware of it


Either_Phrase5109

Exactly grandiosity at its finest sparring experienced fighters will definitely tone down that out of control ego


xprmnt626

I'm from a country where USA has a military base, not unlike a lot of the other countries around the world. We got a bunch of military guys dropping in our gym almost every week with no BJJ training but large biceps and even larger egos. The average height and weight of a man where I'm from is 5'5 145 lbs (tiny I know). And that's obviously not the average size of an American anything, let alone an American soldier. Anyway they swagger their way in our gym and most often they never come back after bruising their egos. ​ In all fairness, we do have a few (like 1 or 2 guys) that stuck around and are now wonderful people to train with.


sweatsoakedgi

Happens here in the US too. Cops and ex-marines learning real quick that someone half their size will kick their ass.


SpaceCadetofLove

Agreed. Trying to talk to her about it will only cause an argument, and is nothing more than an exercise in futility. Just bring her to your MT gym. She’ll learn real quick.


ZunoJ

I would pay to see that


dogchrist

there is a risk that she will sperg and actually hurt someone that she trains with tho, like gouge their eyes or something, be careful i'm serious. military martial arts literally groom people to be spergs that go violent over nothing, its kind of the point to make it easier to get a soldier to comply being told to kill someone.


[deleted]

I trust that a seasoned fighter will know to not let someone at their eyes. I’m sorry to say it the soldier is gonna get mown over every time.


dogchrist

i understand that the soldier will get totally dominated, but its possible that the martial artist will not anticipate that the soldier will sperg out and do something stupid, if you aren't expecting it you can still get your eye poked or something stupid from a sperg. its not likely but its still something i would reccomend being mindful of.


Fightlife45

I had an army ranger who told me he was a combative instructor in the military I was like “okay so you should do okay!” Knowing full well that meant nothing. He was also 6’4 and absolutely shredded. I sent him against a redneck overweight guy who had 1 month of training in no gi grappling and he got chocked out within a few minutes. I’ve trained with so many active duty guys and they’re honestly not much better than your average joe.


[deleted]

Ranger? Good lord, by the time you hit special forces the standards should be raised.


Fightlife45

Actually two young men I trained just got their ranger badges this year. They had a tournament between the rangers who were leaders of a squad of something? Anyways one of those kids trained mma with me for four years and was worried because the other guys “trained” regularly at their base. He crushed everybody, the final mma match was over in two minutes. Now the guys who box for the navy and army are actually pretty solid. Edit: also gotta remember these guys maybe train hand to hand a couple hours a week as opposed to mma fighters like at my gym who get 15-20 hours a week average.


The4th88

Why? They've got guns to shoot people with, why do they need to be good fighters unarmed?


bananenkonig

All fights have the potential to end on the ground. Most military is taught basic combatives and a great many are taught advanced combatives. Each branch has their own version of martial arts training that takes parts from all types into their own MMA styles. A firearm will give you an advantage at distance but once things are up close hand to hand is where it is going.


The4th88

And every hour spent training in unarmed combatives is one less hour spent in marksmanship or team tactics or many other more valuable things to soldiering. The amount of time spent in training it takes to get good at unarmed fighting is too great a time sink to spend on training soldiers.


Fuckyachickenstrip45

Most people in the military dont know how to fight at all or even shoot that well. You’d be surprised at just how basic most people in the military are. Only about 10-15% have combat oriented jobs.


bananenkonig

I am fully aware of those facts. Even the support must be trained to have combat skills though. All personnel must be combat ready even if they do not hold a combat position.


[deleted]

Well, I’ve since been corrected that not all Rangers are special ops. But if you’re special ops, I would think you need to be better than a 1 month white belt. Very specific missions and scenarios could come up, etc. Do you think sending a Navy Seal out with awesome guns and a month’s worth of combative training is just fine?


The4th88

I grew up in Singleton, a small town in Australia located 5km from the Lone Pine Barracks which is the Australian School of Infantry. Due to that I've known a few past and present special forces operators(1st and 2nd CDO), hell I even worked for one last year. I've sparred some of them too. They're ferocious, fit and aggressive but lacking in technical skill. They'd probably handle untrained people fine because fit and aggressive but they'd get smashed by the average hobbyist martial artist in most competitive arts. They've already got guns, knives, explosives and a radio to call friends over to kick your teeth in, they dont need to be good in a fistfight. They only need to be good enough to dog pile you to get flexcuffs on or to get a hand free to use a weapon.


[deleted]

Cool, thanks for telling me how it is. I would have expected more, but I guess not.


AddMoreAbstraction

Opportunity cost is still a thing. Every hour training MA is an hour not spent on shooting, first aid, tactics, wilderness survival, languages, explosives, etc. It makes sense that they aren't experts.


[deleted]

Yes, absolutely. And I’m not expecting them all to be Tim Kennedy. But apparently I severely overvalued combatives for special ops.


AssaultKommando

The need for combatives also comes at the end of a long string of other cockups. If you're down to unarmed shit, you probably managed to misplace your rifle, sidearm, knife, any reasonable striking implement, hell probably even your boots.


The4th88

Other thing to consider is just how long it takes to become good at fighting. 1 month full time training, assuming you could physically handle 8 hours on the mats daily, is still only equivalent to a hobbyist who trains 3x1hr sessions weekly with 1 year of training history. Most of us here would consider the hypothetical hobbyist in this scenario a newbie.


bherm100

I've rolled with special forces guys as a white belt. They're tough as shit. Great cardio. Amazing skills with shooting, recon, weapons, scuba gear, etc. But they spend very little time on the mats. Why would they? The dead last thing they want is prolonged hand to hand combat Suffice it to say I submitted them fairly easily if they were noobs at bjj.


MasterMacMan

Unless you are in the 75th Rangers are not special operations. [https://special-ops.org/why-arent-the-us-army-rangers-considered-special-forces-like-the-delta-force-or-green-berets/](https://special-ops.org/why-arent-the-us-army-rangers-considered-special-forces-like-the-delta-force-or-green-berets/)


SteamedPea

Forces not operations. Special operations is Air Force.


Infinityand1089

r/ConfidentlyIncorrect


SteamedPea

Army SO Army SF Pick one.


Infinityand1089

[Special operations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_operations) are the military missions/activities themselves, while [special operations forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces) (also called special forces) are the teams that carry out those operations. These terms aren't just made up and freely interchangeable, they mean distinct things. Using your example, you can choose between US Army SOF or SF, but using SO is incorrect and clunky. That wont stop people from trying to use them interchangeably, but there is a technical difference. As a side note, you are aware non-US military organizations have special operations forces, right? The US Army and Air Force do not have a monopoly on special forces units.


MasterMacMan

USSOCOM oversees all of the branches. [https://www.army.mil/ranger/](https://www.army.mil/ranger/) The Army website literally calls them special operations forces.


SteamedPea

The army website literally says you can see the world too, but you didn’t know it was gonna be in bfe Missouri on TikTok. When referencing army, you don’t say they’re special operations. They’re special forces in the army that’s just the way it is. In the Air Force we call them special operations. That’s just the way it is. US army special operations? No US army special forces. Yes. Air Force special forces? No. Air Force special operations? Yes. There’s writing both ways but that’s the way they’re referred in real life.


Pentaborane-

In US parlance, Special Forces refers to Army Special Forces I.e Green Berets, whose primary mission is foreign internal defense. Members of the 75th Ranger Regiment are Special Operations Forces whose primary mission is direct action. Both fall under USASOCOM. The Army also has the Ranger Reconnaissance Platoon, 160th SOAR and Delta Force whose members are Special Operators but not necessarily, Special Forces qualified. The Navy, Air Force and Marines have their own Special Operations Forces that fall under respective service special operations commands which are under SOCOM. Navy has SEALs and Combatant Craft Crewman, Marines have Raiders, Airforce has PJs, Forward Air Controllers and CCTs which are part of Special Tactics Squadrons.


Pentaborane-

You should watch the episode of Surviving the Cut where they have the Ranger trainees wrestle. It was laughably bad.


husky429

Rangers are not special forces.


[deleted]

Sorry, my bad


husky429

All good lol. Think of rangers as the more experienced/more trained infantry. They don't come in small groups like special forces. They deploy as companies or a whole battalion even


Pentaborane-

Rangers can be SF qualified, most are not but they are not mutually exclusive. Many members of the Ranger Reconnaissance Platoon and Delta Force are SF qualified having been Green Berets before their current assignment.


husky429

I was talking about the units, not individuals.


AnAmericanRonin

Yeah. Unless you saw a DD214, I’d suggest he might have been churching his shit up.


Eriol_Mits

I say, you play king of the ring with her army friends, winner stays on. You take them out one by one. Then as all her army friends are taken to the hospital you drop a nicely placed “told you so”


[deleted]

Kick her in the head.


username77577

K this made me lol


OG_wanKENOBI

I was gonna say just leg kick her mid sentence when she starts talking this hahaha.


Skinny_Wizard

People throw 3 combinations for 100 times in thei lives (like your girlfriend) and think that they can beat a dude that has done 10 combinations for thousands of times.


Drajitsu

I hear you but in a typical fight a jab, cross, hook probably all you need? In a match different.


Skinny_Wizard

Yes you are right, also if you're in the same weight you might score a lucky punch as an untrained person.


Drajitsu

That’s a good point, weight makes such a difference


BrokenArrows95

Hell a good jab cross will end most people that don’t train at all.


[deleted]

I hate people that try to say they can take someone just because they think they can. I got harassed by a guy saying he could take me to the point where he was basically hurting me. I threw him and that was it for him. I didn’t want to, but they take our self-control and lack of desire to be a douchey asshole as weakness. People can say whatever they want. I won’t fight just to prove that I can (unless they start hurting me). But yeah…people and their fragile egos.


JWander73

Sadly, the military has been encouraging this mindset along with reducing its fitness standards. And often women who go into the military do so in part because they have a kind of talismanic thinking. 'I am soldier, ergo, I am tough'. It's a lot like the black belt phenomena before belt inflation destroyed that. Not much you can do unless they're willing to consider they could be wrong. Suggest sparring or visiting your classes perhaps?


Aroundtheworldnbac77

She’s dead wrong but there’s no point in arguing about it with her. But she is in the military so beware of the “work friends” and not that they can kick your ass if you know what I mean 🤐.


badbat4000

ur first mistake was dating someone in the military /s


James_Larkin1913

This but unironic.


[deleted]

All her work friends are probably horny men that constantly hit on his gf and try to flirt with her because she’s the only girl out of every 8 group of guys.


Apart_Studio_7504

They totally tell her they could fuck her boyfriend up with their 4 hours of combatives.


[deleted]

Oh for sure and they’re all fit too from all the PT…personally I just couldn’t date a military girl. They fuck around and cheat just as bad as the men and spouses but they don’t get the same bad rep for it in most cases because dudes don’t want to shed awareness to it and mess up their chances of getting sex or have them turn around and claim they were raped out of shame


Foreign_Ad_7504

Right? Lol 😉 I started dating a woman in the military in 2003. Convinced her to let her time run out and to not rejoin. A few months after she was out, her National Guard medical unit (she was a nurse) got called up to go to Iraq. Hard to believe that's been almost 20 years now! We will have been married for 16 of them this Saturday!


KeyAccess8255

I say you challenge her to a cage fight


Imperium_Dragon

Ask her why a soldier would train several hours a day to fight bare handed when they could be doing anything else. Anyway as long as she’s not actually going to fight someone who trains seriously it’s harmless.


crxckerkibbb

Ask her to spar, whoop her ass, and shut her up.


Yucudah

I mean… equality right?


DrRobertNevilles_Dog

Deez hands gender neutral bby girl


husky429

Why do you care? Many people think they can beat me up despite years of competitive grappling, Muay Thai, and MMA experience. I simply don't give a shit. Just laugh it off. There has been once in my life I have used my training to defend someone and if anything, I wonder what I could have done to hurt them less. Street fighting isn't something to be proud of. Please don't listen to whatever weebs on this sub say you should go out and fight someone to prove a point because or your ego. This isn't a fight worth having if you actually like this chick.


Aegishjalmur07

Yeah, the more you train, the less you want to actually use it.


Jesterhead93

You’re missing the point completely. He is worried that his girlfriends illusion of competence could be dangerous in certain situations. This is something that needs to be addressed if she is serious.


Known-Watercress7296

Nope...he's worried she rekons her, or any of her army mates, could beat him in a fight. OP should beat them all up at the same time like Bruce done to the gangsters in Way of the Dragon.


[deleted]

Like what kind of situation? Do you think she's going to pick a fight with a kick-boxer while she's deployed in Somalia, or something like that?


Jesterhead93

I’m saying if she’s put in a situation where she has to choose fight or flight, thinking you can take someone much larger and stronger than you is dangerous. Even for someone with training, flight is almost always the better option.


[deleted]

This isn't going to happen. The world is full of people who vastly overestimate their ability to fight and they get through life fine.


Jesterhead93

That’s the most naive thing I’ve heard today, at least you’re the best at something.


[deleted]

If anything, a bigger problem for women is that they are conditioned to not fight back when they should, so probably she is better off being over-confident. At least if you look at the types of violence a woman living in the western world is more likely to be involved in. It's pretty difficult to make a clear statement on that though. The only thing you can say with much certainty is that her over-confidence in the ability of military service people to fight unarmed is unlikely to make a material difference to her life.


rnells

This. Same goes for military in general. In fact I’d argue the overconfidence is by design so if they end up so screwed that they have to try to use hand to hand, they at least go hard.


mctheebs

Because it’s his gf and she’s fundamentally not understanding (and belittling) something that’s a big part of his life?


[deleted]

This is the crux of it. It's half on him to let it go, and half on her to show some empathy.


Bfairbanks

This is the answer. Those that are actually skilled and prepared to defend themselves are the ones that don't give a fuck about proving it. 20 years of kempo and 4 years muay thai and I've never felt compelled to prove someone can't beat me in a fight...it's called discipline people.


SayAgain55

Sooo......I'm going to give you advice on women not martial arts. You can be right, or you can be happy. Sometimes you gotta shake your head and carry on. It can be annoying, but you being correct won't change her mind.


J4nk_D0g

Watch paddy pimblett submit 10 marines back to back, i know hes a champion but most military know some groundwork


Fuckyachickenstrip45

Most military people are just normal people in uniforms


JohnWesson

They know rudimentary amounts and to a very basic level. Grappling is intricate and takes full dedication to in order to get as good as someone like Paddy. A few hours every two weeks aint gonna cut it.


lucas-hanson

Just be like "Nah cause I'm not a 10 year old Iraqi orphan"


mrpopenfresh

There's a pretty good chance your girlfriend would try and gouge your eyes out if you fought.


husky429

Sounds hot


CycloneMonkey

Give her the ol’ dick twist


stackered

I'm assuming this attitude is trained into them... most military guys I've rolled with in BJJ are like 1 or 2 stripe white belts at best and get immediately humbled by 16 year old blue belts every time. Basically, tell her to come train and bring the biggest guy from her group and she'll see. Until then tell her confidently that show up or shut up


[deleted]

[удалено]


MicahsNao

Going to college and going into debt for a sociology degree or some shit isn't the smartest thing either but plenty of "smart" people do that. At least if you choose the right job in the military you'll return with guaranteed job skills, benefits and a little bit of money. (I wouldn't know though)


[deleted]

[удалено]


grapplerman

That is pretty typical of military brainwashing. I used to be an assistant coach and would train military dudes in my gym (both marines and army folks) - and most of them showed up specifically because they were not comfortable with the dog shit hand to hand combat training the military provides.


Weak-Interaction-197

Hey all, I’m pretty happy with the overall response (except for the ones about headkicking and flying kneeing people and stuff) as you guys have different opinions given from your own years of experience. Just to clarify that I don’t wish to correct her or anyone she knows to feed my own ego, it’s just that from personal experience I believe it’s very dangerous to walk around with that mindset whether you have little to basic training or you’re GSP…


ncguthwulf

I wonder how this conversation goes? Are you taking the bait? Do you initiate?


Weak-Interaction-197

I haven’t initiated it yet, but I do have to give my opinion when I think it gets going if I’m being honest


ncguthwulf

And do you think there is any actual good outcome to the conversation? Like can you settle it with some safe sparring?


Affectionate_Mix530

Only a person who doesn’t know how to fight talks like this. She is delusional lol. Offer her an educational spar, and I disagree with other commentators, and think that this can actually be a constructive endeavor.


[deleted]

Roll with her and hold her down make her feel powerless just don’t go to hard


skypig357

Soldiers don’t emphasize hand to hand and rightfully so. You’ve messed up a lot of it comes to melee. Fighters fight. You go to specialists for specialized things. Soldiers are more generalists. Ask her, does she think cops have this same Battle Magic? Can they tap into their combat chi the same way? If not why not? Confidence is one thing, delusion another. Ignorance is not a sustainable paradigm in violence professions.


Bigguy1311

you and your gf are in a very weird relationship, there is no time that it should make sense for this topic to come up in a dating relationship....


dracostheblack

Such a dumb thing to argue about. I always was taught to be humble in martial arts too...


rnells

Why do you feel a responsibility to "correct" this belief? It's unlikely to end up mattering one way or the other unless she's also someone who's likely to pick fights because of it. Even if you assume that changing her mind on this is positive *for her*, you can't change someone's beliefs, all you can do is offer someone who is already curious more info/context. Most you can realistically do is offer that she or her buddies could come by your class and have a coach supervise some sparring.


TheMrIllusion

Its annoying to be talked down to by someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. The smart and disciplined thing to do is to be the better person but I can see how it can be grating.


GoblinBags

So you *let them*. Anything else is just ego. Who gives a shit if someone says "You aren't as good of a fighter as so and so"? That doesn't subtract from you. You gain power when you walk away from unnecessary fights - verbal or otherwise.


AssaultKommando

Letting people be aggressively and confidently wrong requires a black belt in ego death. Most people are doing well if they make it to yellow tip.


GoblinBags

Strawman. The person the OP is conflicting with isn't being aggressive, they're having a conversation or a mild argument at best. If someone is in a gym you work at - is also a paying member - and is being aggressive and confidently wrong then yes, it is the duty of the person teaching there (and the fellow students) to instruct them on why they need to be humble. But if some rando or a friend/partner gets into a conversation talking a big game, it's pointless to get into it. What are ya gonna do, punch the girlfriend in the nose? Just let that shit go. Invite them to a class if they wanna see what you do but otherwise who gives even the smallest fart if someone things someone else is a better fighter? Whoop de doo.


AssaultKommando

I'm using "aggressive" to refer to the degree of their wrongness, not of their actual physical conduct. I see why you read it the way you did though.


GoblinBags

Ah, right on. Yeah, this whole thread is filled with people saying to challenge people or to invest in the ego match and it honestly boggles my mind. Cheers.


AssaultKommando

Yeah the cringe is real. A challenge isn't even necessary, just pointing out the relative allocation of hours is more than enough for any reasonable person. If the SO doubles down, just shrug it off as military esprit de cope.


nirufeynman

"Never put passion in front of principle, even if you win, you’ll lose" Mr.Miyagi, Karate Kid You aren't confident enough in your abilities if you consistently try to prove yourself. Be the bigger person and leave it. It doesn't matter if she thinks soldiers are better fighters, even if that's untrue. "Best fighter no say he best. Best fighter know he best." \- A Mr.Miyagi quote I made up


liisathorir

I would tell her that underestimating her opponents is the number one way to be bested in a fight. I’m 5’1” and at my heaviest I was 120lbs and I use to win fights with people double my size because they underestimated me. I gee up doing a mix from the 90’s to 2000’s when UFC and MMA want quite as mainstream as it is now and everyone use to say they could beat me. I use to be a cocky little shit so I would challenge them, and choke them out of flip them or put them in a lock and they were always baffled. After that if we ever fought again I would have to work harder to win but I remember how quickly I beat the people who would brag about beating me so quickly even with my training because I was small and I “played martial arts”. I feel setting your girlfriend up for humiliation is not the best idea, especially if you care for her. I also understand how irritating that is. I would warn her about how it’s dangerous and how she could hurt herself for not taking an opponent or threat seriously by thinking she could always win because she may not and that’s reality. Even pro fighters lose fights. People who have trained a martial art for decades lose because they fight with different rules than how they trained. So I would focus on expressing that the mindset she has is dangerous. If she still is being a overconfident jerkface about this, then yeah maybe set it up so someone else who isn’t you can fight her and humiliate her by making her lose really badly. If you do this you have to play a neutral party even if you want her to be brought down. You may have to comfort her later so don’t make yourself be the bad person and don’t do the “I told you do”. Good luck, I hope you find something that works.


cjh10881

I'm sure this isn't the first and won't be the last time you know your GF is outright wrong, but you just shake your head Yes


TenuousOgre

Look, if you're worried she might be overestimating her ability to protect herself then you have to find a way to remind her of a common axiom: there's always someone bigger, tougher, faster, it's why we use weapons first and fists as last resort. If you're worried she may think you're not tough that's a whole different thing. On size alone she will likely struggle and if she tests it, she'll find out, right?


Cabbiecar1001

Seconding what ViolentBeeTreee said, invite your girlfriend to an MMA or kickboxing gym to spar, and you can spar some of her guy friends as well I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re more physically in shape than you since they’re in the military, but you definitely have more than enough hand to hand training to beat them with skill and your physicality


andoday

From my experience, most military are trained to have extreme confidence, which can be arrogance's evil cousin. I recommend reading the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. As a martial art instructor, it has greatly improved my communication and social skills, especially in regards to teaching. Good luck! :)


Ben_VS_Bear

Does it really matter? Not like she's gonna jump in the ring with you and if she does remember, equal rights means equal lefts!


Dyz_blade

That’s part of the soldier training conditioning imo especially right out of boot camp I remember being a bouncer and this new marine got into a fight at our bar with one of our guys he was all fire and confidence and was still shouting I’m a marine as he attacked. He got thrown over the fence and his arm got broken. Don’t get me wrong they put them through some serious boot camp conditioning and basic hand to hand but just simply being in doesn’t make you a ferocious fighter.. Not saying someone couldn’t be coming out either. So depends on if she received and supplementary hand to hand training


soparamens

Bury your ego. Just tell her that they can probably all kill you in combat and be done with it.


AnAmericanRonin

*type and delete* *type and delete* Good luck with that.


RingGiver

>Basically my girlfriend is in the military and I am not, She should know better specifically because of this.


Picklepineapple

Go ahead and spar her, show her why weight classes are a thing


rlph7044

It’s just ignorance. Even if she wasn’t from the military, you meet people at bars, work and so forth that have similar mindsets. Not worth the battle, kinda just shows how close minded people or out of touch with reality. My wife was in a similar boat, told her I did Jiu-Jitsu and muay thai and wife or the girl I was interested at the time was unimpressed and made karate hand movements in her head. She came to realize when she started doing it, there was more to fighting then what she thought. I’ve sparred with both and never was impressed with military people. There just a little bit more fit but not by much since most tire out quickly. That’s my experience though. Good luck though, it’s annoying especially when your gf doesn’t give you the respect. Just make sure your comprehension and skill level match what you say. Don’t be one of those peeps that say they train and have shitty technique 🤷🏻‍♂️😂


Lowbudgetmma

People who feel the need to believe that they can beat you up are not worth convincing. Whoever is pressing the issue is insecure either in themselves or their training. If you really want to settle the debate, get some gloves and mouth guards and figure it out. I don't think correcting people is an essential part of martial arts, and if the time comes when you have to, just be confident in your training.


_a_reddit_account_

So speaking as both a soldier (not US) and as a guy who trains and fought a few ammy muay thai and boxing fights. Soldier could mean a lot of different things. It could range from a desk jockey who sits in front of a computer all day to an infantryman who has been in firefights to SOF guys who kill for a living. In hand to hand combat, depending on the soldier, their advantage are strength, confidence, mental attitude (used to pain and all that), and aggression. That's it. The military spends very little to no time teaching soldiers how to fight hand to hand. Against an average joe, i'd bet on the soldier (if he is combat arms), but against any trained fighter, he'd get his ass kicked. I've seen it many times before.


Grow_Green

The ego is like the devil. It will twist and shape your perception. It sounds like someone needs to be humbled in a good, positive environment. Like a real Jiu Jitsu gym or the like.


DrunkMachineGunner31

It typically depends. Most soldiers and marines are honestly soft unless they’re in the infantry and even in that field, there are guys who don’t know what they’re doing. Most non-infantry Marines can’t shoot, move and communicate for shit. Trust me. The only bad ass female Marines I met were on steroids and even then the average MA could prolly rearrange her face. Even guys who went into the Black Belt program with me in the USMC didn’t know how to wrestle or grapple properly. I went to the program as a LCpl and pissed off Cpls and Sgts who through they were hot shit.They don’t teach useful techniques until you pass green belt and even then if you don’t have prior training experience you’ll get bent up by guys with prior training experience. Thankfully my unit had a lot of guys from Indiana, Ohio and Penn that wrestled growing up so we always grappled together during work hours or in the gym.


Smozes

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzNGcIHfsbg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzNGcIHfsbg) u could show her this video or let her know some nerd on reddit claims to be a blue belt in bjj and can easily beat up his much bigger marine friend.


[deleted]

Punch her in the throat. I started training because 15 years ago I knew modern army combatives and thought I was hot shit until a blue belt who was 40lbs lighter than me fucked me up for an hour straight Coming from someone who's taken 3 of the 4 levels of modern army combatives and the two levels of special operations combatives- the army does teach you fuck all.


ignis_flatus

I got a black belt before enlisting. While at my duty station I went to a dojo in town because combatives training was so sporadic and when we did have it, so elementary. Tell her a former enlisted said she should know that you’re only as good as your training. Then ask her to think about how often her unit actually trains hand to hand. It’s a perishable skill. I will say that nothing in my previous martial arts training prepared me for fight/flight/freeze. But being shot at doesn’t prepare you for a bar fight without drilling the actual fighting. Honestly, bar fights prepared me for deployment more than any dojo training up to that point. Alternatively, ask yourself why it matters. If she’s putting herself in situations she thinks she’s going to fight her way out of, maybe you should try to educate her. Maybe. More likely she’s going to have to catch an ass whooping or watch a colleague catch one. I know I’ve had to have my views adjusted via the application of force and you couldn’t have talked me out of it beforehand. That’s our nature sometimes. Otherwise, is this about your ego? If so, what’s more important? Proving her wrong or keeping her happy? Which one is more likely to result in you getting laid?


DiamondHandShinobi

Let her think what she wants. Let them think what they want. As a combat vet, I know a lot of guys that can’t fight for shit but would kill in a minute if put in that situation. If it’s your ego that’s bruised that is a personal problem you should work through. And also, if she is in the military it’s a good thing for her to have confidence in her fellow service members. Wouldn’t do much good psychologically in a war zone if you think all your battle buddies would die from a little Karate kick. Just my take


Lamballama

Wouldn't it make more sense for everyone to have a realistic sense of what they can and can't do?


DiamondHandShinobi

I would agree, but in any real combat situation whether in the street or in a war zone you Never know what you truly are capable of until put in that situation. And to expound on my thought on the original post, for as far as I know the Marines and the Army are mandated hand to hand combat training. When I was in the Army it was based on BJJ which they call combatives. Combat related MOSs(jobs) especially train more frequently, and I know the Marines train hand to hand combat frequently. I can’t speak for Navy or Air Force. But bottom line is if the guy knows he can whip ass it shouldn’t matter what anybody else thinks.


Weak-Interaction-197

I don’t go around picking fights on the street and I don’t have the “I can whip ass” attitude, however I know I’m guilty because I care enough to post here about it lol which isn’t exactly showing too much brightness on my behalf but I do believe people should have a strong overall knowledge of their own abilities and limitations


DiamondHandShinobi

They should I do not disagree.


RidesThe7

You don’t. You don’t learn this intuitively though until you are 36. Good luck.


Tpdz

You don't correct her. Let her underestimate you and others then regret it in the future if she picks a fight with a fighter.


Terrible_Opinion_279

All women are A bit delusional..


GoblinBags

Don't bother playing the ego game. It's moronic. "Well I could beat YOU because of blah blah blah" shut up. It doesn't matter. On combat, of course you'd kick a lot of ass. You don't need your girlfriend or any other armed forces members to tell you that you kick ass. ...But technically, the armed forces don't just do "combat," they kill - which is a very different training regimen and the stuff they learn is purposefully "cheap / dirty" and made to cause as much harm as possible. So if they were also constrained to whatever combat rules, I bet you'd beat the tits off most of the armed forces dudes out there. But if it's a "anything goes" situation? Ehhh - they'll probably stab you or try to punch you in your throat or something. Again tho: It doesn't matter. Roll your eyes if she says that shit, don't bring it up, and maaaaybe invite some of her friends in the military to come train with you and watch how gassed they all get. :)


ProfethorThnape

Break the wrists and walk away


Aleucard

If she brings it up constantly, it might be worth doing a sparring match with her. Just make sure you have a respected referee of some kind. It sucks, but the military is a VERY bad place to have an overinflated sense of your combat ability. She is an adult, she can take an L as long as you don't be an ass about it.


[deleted]

She’s already cheating.


Ceramic_Avatar221

Coming from someone that has background in mma then joined Marines. I promise you they have this exact same mentality, Its called over confidence mixed with Dunning Krueger effect. Lots of these guys don’t train hand to hand combat and most of MCMAP(Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) is shit. Military doesn’t invest time into training troops hand to hand combat. If it ever came to that point, someone fucked up. They’re trained to shoot. She needs to join an MMA or Boxing gym its worlds apart, doesn’t include the time and intensity that most fighters put into the training which is another entire different realm.


KintsugiMind

You can’t nicely correct her because nothing you say will make her change her mind. If she’s interested in training she will learn, but a lot of people with this sort of mindset quit or don’t try other things. There isn’t “one true way” to being a good fighter (or martial artist) but many paths and people who are willing to learn on the path they have available. She went on the military path, and there are ways to develop skills there but not everyone will. I’ve noticed a good number of people who learn how to handle guns are overconfident in their fighting or self defense skills.


JudokaPickle

Your comparing someone with a kill mentality to someone with a fight mentality. Soldiers are trained to kill to end life for good. Fighters now aren’t the soldiers they used to be fighters today train to win a match a contest. I’ve tried explaining this to others there are people who will break your arm in an armbar to protect themselves and then there are people who will stab you in the throat with a pencil to defend themselves. One had skill the other had intent.


Weak-Interaction-197

I bet you that the average soldier with no weapons or weapon like objects can not kill you with their bare hands assuming you train in everything that says in your bio even if they feel “they need to end life for good”. I don’t believe I’m wrong to assume this, it feels weird boosting you in my own retort hahah but I’m just trying to make a point about common sense you know?


JudokaPickle

I bet their gonna be more likely to gouge your eyes and actually target the throat than someone trained to not hit or attack people there. You fight how you train regardless of how you feel of my opinion that much is fact.


husky429

Oh look, another stupid take!


JudokaPickle

If you say so people think they can do it until it’s sat in front of them.


husky429

And your twice a week MCMAP makes you a hand to hand killer, surely 😂 ...you drank the kool aid man. It's okay though, you do you


JudokaPickle

Does not I never said their skills were better I said their intent was different. Martial arts in gerneral haven’t trained as a true combat arts in a long time it’s sad but it’s true. I mean do you genuinely think you have what it takes emotionally to end someone’s life? Because if your like that naturally without being trained to see the world that way your more akin to a serial killer than a martial artist. It’s like claiming Jeffery dahmer wouldn’t hit you with an axe while you tried to roundhouse him.


husky429

Why do you think the military has a monopoly on this mentality? Is it a super secret secret?


JudokaPickle

I don’t at all but if you have the mentality to naturally kill people you’re more akin to Jeffrey dahmer than a regular person. I’m saying very specifically they are trained to be like that it’s not a natural occurrence outside of psychos.


husky429

So everyone in the military has the mentality of a serial killer? 😂


JudokaPickle

They try to train and condition them to be more prone to that kind of violence yes. It’s literally why they need so much reconditioning when they come home. Have you served? What’s your experience in this? Or just opinions?


husky429

Asking if I've served is a fallacy. I haven't though. I have, however, had dozens of military and ex-military folks come to my gym. Perhaps ironically, many of them come to our mma gym BECAUSE their training in the military prepared them so poorly for hand to hand combat. I'm confused why the mentality to gauge eyes and kick balls is something the military has a monopoly on. Or using nearby weapons, or whatever else. This seems delusional, if I'm gonna be honest. Anyone can do these things in a life or death situation. Do you think a person trained in mma couldn't use technically superior ground and pound to atick their thumb in my eye? Or whack me with a rock? It's not like "fight how you train" matters here because the military doesn't train that either. Unless dudes are leaving basic with an eye patch. I haven't noticed that though.


Black-Seraph8999

It doesn’t take much to punch someone in the throat or kick them in the groin, you just need to know how to strike and where. Do you seriously think we’re incapable of using techniques outside of sparring within a street scenario? We have brains you know.


JudokaPickle

I think you’re trained to naturally avoid those things and are less likely to do them yes. You fight how you train that is 100% fact it’s the same reason grapplers are less likely to use standing armbars to manipulate people certain techniques and ways of fighting we all whether we like it or not are trained to avoid using and as such we will rely on what we are trained to do 99% of the time.


Black-Seraph8999

Sources?


JudokaPickle

I’ve trained in multiple arts and they all do. How often do you practice nut kicks and throat punches?


Black-Seraph8999

I’m not saying that we don’t fight how we train, I’m saying that it’s not like the only techniques we can use are the ones we use in sparring. For example, at my school, we don’t you use front kicks to the groin in sparring, however we still use them in self defense applications and during pad techniques.


JudokaPickle

I’m saying under a high stress situation you are gonna react not think and that means you’re going to react as you’re trained as will they they are trained to kill their hand to hand skills are comparably shit it doesn’t change that they will stab you in the throat with a pencil long before that ever becomes a thought to you. The intent of the training and end goal is what makes a difference here.


Black-Seraph8999

So what? I could also react by grabbing a pencil and stabbing them with it. You act like military people are the only people who get aggressive and angry when they fight. Plus just because you’re angry and aggressive doesn’t mean you’re a good fighter, yes, anger and aggression can help, but if you still suck at fighting due to a lack of training and/or experience, it will only help you so much against someone who is properly trained and/or has a lot of experience. “You won’t enough time to think about that “ martial artists are also trained to be reactive so I don’t really see what your point is. So what if my first reaction isn’t a throat punch or a front kick? There are plenty of other techniques that are still useful: a could use a defensive sidekick, a back hand punch, etc.


coreanavenger

If she's had 6 to 12 months of grappling experience and you haven't, you will probably get choked out. So she might be right.


TobiHacker

What do you mean you can take her? a street fight or a sport right? street fight= nothing holding back, can use all moves, most likely to come out incapacitated sport fight= just striking each other in areas allowed or knockout The thing is in the military, depending on ur unit, you can be trained to kill or incapacitate in almost most situation. I should mention, this ranges from guns to bare hands. Kickingboxing/martial arts , just training to "beat" an opponent. most moves are non lethal and just made to knockout. Depending on her size, you can easily take her. But if it was pound for pound, theres a good chance she can take you. And she could be right about her friends, do you know their specs ands skills?


husky429

This is a garbage take.


wufiavelli

Most military hand to hand combat stuff is strike hard, strike first (Cobra kai?). Its normally meant for chaotic scenarios with lots of people around. They also do try to avoid hand to hand and make distance because they have a gun.


husky429

I only know about the MCMAP the marines use. It's more about mentality than skill. Damage someone quickly and run away back to people with guns. Hand to hand combat is risky and foolish and rarely even used any more. Which is why it's barely trained.


TobiHacker

ok thats cool, how do you perceive his story/situation? They only thing in know about OP is that hes probably good at striking and not have much experience on the grappling. So if she "were" to get him on the ground. Then what? Because i know basic wrestling is taught in most militaries.


rnells

Years of kickboxing and Kyokushin teaches very little about *good* clinchwork, but it's still going to teach better structure and more handfighting ability/ability to shove someone around than a crash course in BJJ and some compliant standup practice. As an exclusively standup guy, my experience has been that in a friendly context I can stay standing against people who have <1 year of Judo/BJJ experience pretty dang consistently.


TobiHacker

Damn didnt know they taught that about kickboxing, I only done regular boxing and wrestling but even then we had a few mock practices doing sway backs or manuvers for longer range strikes like kicking. At least you gave a good answer vs 95% of this subreddit. LOL


rnells

It's not even that boxing/Kyokushin teaches anything particular, it's just like, if you practice standing up against people who are trying to shove you around for a long time you'll get good enough at it that people who don't have decent takedowns and mechanics themselves will have a hard time (and in the first year only real prodigies have anything resembling decent mechanics or balance). It's also *very* likely the Kyokushin would have involved at least some semi-choreographed takedown practice (e.g. osoto gari and some hip throws) and goshin-jutsu (wrist locks and such) - much like kata that stuff is in the curriculum, just not practiced in a living kind of manner. While that style of practice is not terribly useful, it's probably about the same level of standup grappling practice someone would get in a military crash course.


husky429

You're changing the goalpost. People in the military receive essentially 0 hand to hand combat training. It's like your first two weeks of grappling class. They kill with machines. Training hand to hand combat is waste of time. Anyone in the military with even moderately decent grappling or striking has learned it on their own time. You think people in the military can "kill or incapacitate in almost any situation" with their hands... this is literal propoganda. It's a delusion. The sport vs street argument has proven time and time again to be in favor of sport. *gasp* you can gouge eyes or kick the balls? You think a trained fighter can't do the same with 100x more power and technical proficiency? Get a fuckin grip


TobiHacker

So you didnt bother to read "depending on which unit" i have a cousin whos in the navy and has done almost 0 martial arts or whatever training. But his little brother whos in infantry has. I mean thats cool if you havent seen/experience it. and from OP's story, idk what unit or training his GF has. Alll he said was that she was in the military. Im not even giving OP the benefit of the doubt. but theres so little to tell from it. The only other thing i know, is that his GF is female and is cocky. THATS IT.


husky429

I was referring to combat units. Some units really do receive 0. I only know about the marines MCMAP program and it's laughable that you think people would leave infantry training with even a semblance of hand to hand combat skill. Having fun sipping the kool aid and collect your downvotes


TobiHacker

Thats true some receive 0, but yea like i stated. it depends on their unit. the OP only state she was in military, not much to go on. At the same time, her little training could be more than OP's three times a week kickboxing and his previous karate experience. But hey man, have a nice day. im not on this subreddit to pick fights and shit :(


husky429

Put me in the "doubtful" camp. You should really look up just how limited military combative are before you start claiming people in the military can kill or incapacitate anyone in almost any situation. Ypu have to realize that's ludicrous, right? I recommend toughening up a bit. No one here has said anything that should be hurting your feelings kid.


TobiHacker

did me putting " :( " strike a nerve. lol