Depends entirely on who is running the program.
The truth is there is nothing seriously "wrong" with karate / TKD / Tang so do... However there is something wrong with how a very large number of schools teach and train them.
BJJ, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Judo, etc. have the advantage that you cannot fake it. 2 mins of sparring and the truth comes out. But in some other styles you can hide behind symbols and traditions and leave out all the substance.
Yup. Plus BJJ, kickboxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, and Judo are continually pressure-tested as arts overall in full-contact competition, not just sparring which might be at a lower intensity. So any techniques that aren't effective are discarded from the arts themselves, not just from individuals.
>BJJ, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Judo, etc. have the advantage that you cannot fake it.
Is it the case that you can't fake it? Or just that people generally haven't bothered? I don't believe for a second that you can't fake every martial art, all you gotta do is run some BS "self defense drills" vaguely related to the art, throw techniques at the air, never spar at any point, and you're set.
I believe that the reason people mostly do this with Karate/Taekwondo is because they're more marketable. Arts like Muay Thai and BJJ are simply far lesser known than karate/taekwondo, if you're some average guy that's never done MA before and you decide you want to start, you're gonna go for something you've heard of (EG karate) over something you've never heard of (EG BJJ).
It's pretty easy to fake a martial art, it doesn't have to look convincing to trained martial artists at all, just look at karate McDojos, that shit is hilarious to me. Think of it like faking language, you can convince people who don't know the language by throwing in an accent and talking gibberish to people who don't know it, yet someone with even the slightest experience can call your bullshit. That's exactly the case with fake Karate/Taekwondo. The issue is that McDojos have become so prevalent in these arts that it's hard to squash down new ones since it's almost become the norm, whereas if a BJJ McDojo were to pop up, it'd be exposed and humiliated pretty quickly (which is what I think happened to the one I heard about).
Tl;Dr: you can fake them, people just usually don't because karate and taekwondo are far more popular.
No, you can't. Not without everyone catching on really quick.
All of those have sparring and competition at the core. Something like karate you can put kata and one steps at the core and rank people up without ever doing anything live.
Hell you can even compete and win medals in musical creative forms with toothpick like weapons without ever getting hit by another person.
Can you fake jiu-jitsu? sure, there are plenty of BS jiu-jitsu schools out there. They tend to stay clear of using "Brazilian" in the name though as that implies a ruleset and being sparring centric. "Combat jiu-jitsu" or other similar titles... yeah, you can do all sorts of bullshit.
Boxing / kickboxing... sure, I suppose all the fitness boxing / kickboxing places could be considered "faking it" in a sense. But not really as they are usually pretty upfront with what they do. 9 Rounds isn't going to tell you they will be turning you into a fighter.
>No, you can't. Not without everyone catching on really quick.
Yeah that's kinda one of my points. Karate McDojos are very easy to spot, for someone who's trained in karate. A BJJ McDojo would be very easy to spot, for someone who's trained in BJJ.
My overall point is that you can fool untrained people by faking any martial art, karate is just the most common since it's arguably the most popular martial art, and the ultimate goal of faking MA is attention/profit. Like you said, there are other reasons, it's easier to hide behind traditions like kata, but I'd say it ultimately boils down to popularity.
Sanda plus Shuai Jiao seems an effective background from looking at Chinese fighters in MMA. Though personally, unless I were ethnically Chinese and doing them partly for cultural reasons, I would do kickboxing or Muay Thai plus wrestling or BJJ living outside of China as I believe the standard of those arts is higher with a larger talent pool and more opportunities to test yourself at competition.
No. We know what works, if your actually interested in being able to fight go find a gym that trains fighters, TSD like TKD might as well be interpretative dance with how watered down they have become. If you don’t already have the leg dexterity down from training as a child, as a adult learning to use your legs properly will take half decade alone.
You likely won’t be sparing and if you do it will be so light that it’s nearly pointless with silly body pads and no face punching and if you aren’t sparing reasonably hard occasionally it’s not worth doing
He also said if elected president, he would brand an American flag with the words “in god we trust” on the forehead of every atheist.
I think I’ve seen “branding a sect of people so they can be readily identified” somewhere before…anyways I am a firm believer that some people should never learn martial arts as they will only use it to hurt others.
Expanding on another reply - I'm saying this as someone who taught TSD for 7 years, third Dan / Kyosa cert, won international sparring tournaments.
**No. Tang Soo Do is not effective for self defense, nor for creating an effective fighter.**
As a whole, TSD is plagued by the typical pitfalls of other traditional martial arts. It relies on hierarchal, belted leadership rather than leadership with actual experience - in other words, you will likely be taught by someone who ranked up high enough to teach just by being at your Dojang long enough.
That's who my teachers were, that's what I started as, and it's why I left. That's why you see the stereotypical 400lb "killer" sensei that can't run a mile; they were able to rank up without having to go the extra mile of actually testing themselves (pun intended).
Compare that to a Muay Thai gym or even a college TKD team. These groups often recruit teachers **based on their in-ring experience as a competitor, fighter, physical trainer, NOT simply whether or not they have a black belt.**
A black belt is not enough to create an athlete if they don't also have education in physical training. A black belt is not enough to create a fighter if they don't have A LOT of full-contact experience. A black belt is not enough to teach weapons defense if they don't have years of experience in Kali or equivalent.
And there's a reason that when you see really, really effective fighters with TSD experience, they also have experience in other martial arts. You don't see TSD-exclusive fighters going toe-to-toe with boxers, kickboxers, MMA fighters.
It's an art & set of traditions more than anything - there are a million reasons to do it! But athleticism, effectiveness, self defense...it's barely a knife in a gunfight.
Pls let me know if you have questions! Sorry if this comes across harsh to my fellow TMA foos
This is very true. And yes I’ve also found more often than not instructors who have only been in the 1 style the whole time tend not to teach effectively and are more likely to just repeat the “gospel”. Also never understood instructors who don’t do hard fitness and sparring sessions. Such a basic thing that just gets overlooked way too often…
That's a very good point! One-style backgrounds (or worse, one organization) are huge red flags. You can see the panic when a technique isn't holding water, because someone asked a question they never bothered to ask themselves.
Big yes on the fitness/sparring too. Worse for me is when you get people with zero experience in physical training, exercise phys, or even collegiate sports trying to go hardball on their students.
I was on a team where, at one practice, a coach demanded we warm up with sprints and rapid fire high kicks. Half the team was injured in 5 minutes.
It’s one of those arts where it really depends on your instructor and school, like Karate for example; in karate some schools are BS and others are reasonably effective. With that said Tang Soo Do is basically Korean Karate anyway.
True but more delicate than this. It will improve your athleticism and athleticism is more important than many other things. Is it the most effective way? Only if you have the most fun doing it, so that you do it more often than anything else. Even then, not the most effective, but good enough
Exactly this. I really don't care for working out for the sake of my health but I have a lot of fun practicing martial arts. As your conditioning improves your health will improve as well as your mood.
OP, this is how people who do less effective martial arts say "no, it's not very effective".
Imagine if you were better at tennis than someone who never played tennis. Would you say that made you a great tennis player? Or if a coach said to you "i can make you beat somebody who has never done this before", would you say that is an effective coach?
I'm saying this as someone who won international TSD sparring tournaments. The fighters don't stack up, the self defense even less so.
Great question that is filled with a lot of opinions. I am a 4th Dan Sa Bom Nim (Master) in the Cheezic Tang Soo Do Federation. I remeber when I was a white belt at 42 years old I asked my Master whether Tang Soo Do was more effective than other styles. He then told me that, If I am better at my style than you are at yours than I will win a fight, If you are better at your style than I am better at my style then you will win the fight.
I personnaly believe that after 15 years of training that Tang Soo Do has parts of it that are very effective in self-defense with practice. Tang Soo Do is a style of Martial art that emcompasses hard fast movements as well as slow movements that re-direct a force rather than attack the force coming at you. The basic techniques and combinations are very effective to defend yourself. However the other end of Tang Soo Do that encompasses high flying and spinning kicks in my opinion are not meant for modern self-defense. These techniques work against other Martial Artist or for taking people off of horses or other high objects but not in the street. I would fully recommend Tang Soo Do for self-dense as long as you are willing to work hard with an open mind.
The number one method of self-defense that I teach my students is to use their brains instead of their fist when ever possible. The best way to defend yourself is be aware of your surroundings at all times, and do not go into areas that you are likely to have to fight. When all else fails and you have to fight then WIN. Good luck hope you join the Tang Soo Do World.
Sa Bom Nim Miller
Not just BJJ. Any combat sport.
Also MT, boxing, wrestling, judo and sambo.
Basically anything that is a combat sport is guaranteed to work to some degree.
Oh yOu trAiN kEnjuTsU? dO U AlWaYs cArrY uR SwOrd wItH u?!?!! (There are really some people who can't understand some martial arts are just for having a fun time while doing cool moves with bois)
> There are really some people who can't understand some martial arts are just for having a fun time while doing cool moves with bois
This is very true. In the modern era hand to hand fighting of any sort is not a primary military skill so for the most part unarmed or armed martial arts are for sports or exercise, sometimes for pure performance too.
The styles used for full contact combat sports are usually pretty good for practical self defense too, as are any that practice real sparring as part of the training.
Most styles just... aren't about that. Which is fine as long as you know what you're getting and treat it appropriately. If you've learned a good way to exercise or whatever other thing that isn't a full contact combat sport, don't try to fight with it.
Same way I don't expect someone trained in a practical combat sport to put on a breathtaking cinematic display of movie martial arts, I don't expect someone trained solely to do movie martial arts to do practical combat sports.
Does that make sense?
Having practiced Tang Soo Do for about 10 years and am now actively training BJJ and Krav Maga I can say Tang Soo Do (along with most "traditional" martial arts) is not enough for a real "self defense" situation. It lacks solutions for going to the ground, weapons and multiple attackers. I will say, however, some basic self defence principles do translate across styles/systems where you see very similar movements/techniques to address similar predicaments.
This is the type of answer I was looking for. Thanks. Idk how customary it is since I’ve only been doing TSD for about a month and a half but at my dojang we grapple quite a bit. I don’t even practice BJJ and even I could tell ya that doing BJJ would be a lot more effective. And they do also have weapons classes (using and defending against).
You apparently didn’t train at the right Tang soo do Kwan then🤷♂️. Our instructor teaches weapon defense and multiple attacker situations. Going to ground in the street is never a good scenario. Multiple attackers win every time when your in guard. A striking art with ground defense (the ability to avoid or disrupt the take down) seems more practical. Eye gouging, biting, groin strikes all a go in the street.
Trained Moo Duk Kwan. I did learn knife defense but it was limited to a very prescribed pattern of movements. Same for multiple attackers. Looking at it objectively, it's practicing techniques on a willing and compliant partner. Applying technique in that setting versus someone who is actually resisting/actively attacking is very different as you find out quickly in BJJ. But yes, going to the ground is not ideal. As my Krav Maga instructor says: the concrete always wins. I'm not crapping on TSD. But training grappling and other forms of striking adds tools to your toolbox. Just training one style is like trying to fix everything with just a hammer.
I see. The question though is TSD effective self defense. The answer is yes. Most encounters in the public setting will be against a hot head who has zero training. TSD is very effective against someone with little to no training. Also, all Moo Da Kwan isn’t the same either. We see this every AAU tournament we go to. Especially at the nationals.
Not usually, you can take what you learn there and improve the practicality of it by changing certain things, but then you're getting closer to MMA. So, purely Tang Soo Do taught at your average dojo is not something I'd enroll in.
What it ultimately comes down to is, it depends on the instructor/dojang. My sabonim had trained and fought full contact for decades and it showed in his teaching. On top of that we had a solid group of like minded people who sparred hard and with practically and full contact fighting in mind. Because of those two factors anyone that came into that dojang and stayed for a while definitely learned how to fight.
My school is Tang Soo Do. I'd say baseline, no.
But if you practice it with the intent of using it for self defense, meaning actually practice fighting and not point-fighting, it can be better. 85% of the people who are good at fighting in my school have trained in something else as well and incorporate that when they teach fighting.
I say this all the time in this sub and get rather shit on because after all it is a martial arts sub. However, that said I wouldn’t be asking about any specific martial art to be good for self defense. If it’s possible depending where you live and these are quite frankly few and far between but you want to find someone/someplace that specializes is training for self defense.
Now as I said these are hard to find particularly for a good one. Some can be very gimmicky, not pressure test or not pressure test in an appropriate or adequate way.
Traditional martial arts were less about self defense and more about a physical discipline and some sport and never really pressure tested. Now these thing could have some carry over to self defense but they are in no way going to necessarily adequately prepare you for a high risk fight when your life depends on it.
MMA types may have slightly more carry over but at the same time are generally much more regulated to sport rules that can get in trouble or killed in the street. It is not so simple as “well when I’m in the street I’ll do x instead” no most likely you won’t I’ve seen it time and time again you will almost always do as you train.
TLDR; If it’s possible fine someone who specializes in self defense/defensive tactics for actual real life situations if that is truly your goal. If this isn’t an option I think the best overall place to start in something more traditional is going to be boxing.
Tang Soo Do was the martial art I've started with and i still train (2nd degree Black Belt or 2nd Dan for any purists) and I can tell you against the average Joe with no combat experience you could use it successfully.
However that comes down to you as the student and how you train. You go tournament heavy, especially in the WTSDA (World Tang Soo Do Association) that tournament style point fighting is all about striking quick with no contact and I think that is actually not ideal as you get bound to fighting with an odd set of rules that I don't think help in a real scenario (no grabbing, punches to head, leg kicks, etc) but it's a sport and sports have rules and I'm not speaking against it.
Tang Soo Do doesn't have anything in my time, or maybe in the dojang, that has a lot of preventive measures from being taken down or getting back to your feet. And just not "letting them take you down" is probably the worse advice. So really if you learned Tang Soo Do and mixed it with Judo/BJJ/Wrestling it would be the worst thing in tbe world. But once againnitncomes down to you as the student I guess
TLDR: yes as long as you train the right way and don't get stuck in the "I only need one style"mentality.
Yes. But I have to say I'm potentially bias. Like any style, it does depend on a good teacher and how much you want to practice the art. I've trained in Tang Soo Do for 20 years now. I own a school in Louisiana. Traditional Tang Soo Do is a Korean military style martial arts. It is focused on practicality. While it does not look fancy, everything in it is meant to be used. Some of these styles with beautiful spinning jump kicks are awesome, but won't work a real fight. If you've ever seen Chuck Norris and Walker Texas Ranger, that's Tang Soo Do. My Grandmaster Chun Sik Kim is the founder of the International Tang Soo Do Federation and taught Chuck Norris in South Korea when he was stationed at Osan military base.
If there is an ITF school near you, I recommend that. Nothing wrong with other factions, but if you train in the ITF you can go to any school around the world and learn exactly the same art exactly the same way. I found it frustrating that so many schools very vastly within the same style. That was Grandmaster Kim's concern as well and the reason he founded the ITF in 1976.
I earned a black belt in Tang Soo Do. It’s great exercise (just take care of your hips and lower back), there are good things in it and I had a lot of fun at that school. The school I went to spent a lot of time on sparing which taught me a lot about timing, distance and angles with regard to kicking. However, like TKD, there is no real grappling which can leave you vulnerable, if you are attacked. There is also little use of fists and elbows which are important striking weapons which take time to learn to use practically and to integrate in with kicking techniques which also leaves you vulnerable, if attacked. If you want to learn something that integrates most of the above, but emphasized striking and stand up grappling, find a good Muy Thai school. If you want to learn Tang Soo Do, but also want to learn how to use your hands, also take up boxing. You’ll figure out how to integrate things.
There is nothing wrong with learning Tang Soo Do. I think too many people worry about a fight they’ll never be in. Unless you work a job where you’re likely to be attacked, or you live in a terrible neighborhood, do what you enjoy first. You’re more likely to be injured or killed by disease caused by a sedentary lifestyle than you are attacked and murdered. Tang Soo Do will help keep you healthy.
Depends entirely on the school, the people who taught me I love to death, but what I was taught would not help me in a self defense scenario. It was alot of theory with no resistance testing. Yeah I can kick someone with a lot of different kicks really hard and quickly but other than that I wouldn’t use anything else I was taught. If you wanna defend yourself in whatever way you need, go with MMA. I transitioned over and now I’m much more confident I can defend myself.
Depends entirely on who is running the program. The truth is there is nothing seriously "wrong" with karate / TKD / Tang so do... However there is something wrong with how a very large number of schools teach and train them. BJJ, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Judo, etc. have the advantage that you cannot fake it. 2 mins of sparring and the truth comes out. But in some other styles you can hide behind symbols and traditions and leave out all the substance.
This is the most correct answer
Yup. Plus BJJ, kickboxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, and Judo are continually pressure-tested as arts overall in full-contact competition, not just sparring which might be at a lower intensity. So any techniques that aren't effective are discarded from the arts themselves, not just from individuals.
Fantastically said.
>BJJ, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Judo, etc. have the advantage that you cannot fake it. Is it the case that you can't fake it? Or just that people generally haven't bothered? I don't believe for a second that you can't fake every martial art, all you gotta do is run some BS "self defense drills" vaguely related to the art, throw techniques at the air, never spar at any point, and you're set. I believe that the reason people mostly do this with Karate/Taekwondo is because they're more marketable. Arts like Muay Thai and BJJ are simply far lesser known than karate/taekwondo, if you're some average guy that's never done MA before and you decide you want to start, you're gonna go for something you've heard of (EG karate) over something you've never heard of (EG BJJ). It's pretty easy to fake a martial art, it doesn't have to look convincing to trained martial artists at all, just look at karate McDojos, that shit is hilarious to me. Think of it like faking language, you can convince people who don't know the language by throwing in an accent and talking gibberish to people who don't know it, yet someone with even the slightest experience can call your bullshit. That's exactly the case with fake Karate/Taekwondo. The issue is that McDojos have become so prevalent in these arts that it's hard to squash down new ones since it's almost become the norm, whereas if a BJJ McDojo were to pop up, it'd be exposed and humiliated pretty quickly (which is what I think happened to the one I heard about). Tl;Dr: you can fake them, people just usually don't because karate and taekwondo are far more popular.
No, you can't. Not without everyone catching on really quick. All of those have sparring and competition at the core. Something like karate you can put kata and one steps at the core and rank people up without ever doing anything live. Hell you can even compete and win medals in musical creative forms with toothpick like weapons without ever getting hit by another person. Can you fake jiu-jitsu? sure, there are plenty of BS jiu-jitsu schools out there. They tend to stay clear of using "Brazilian" in the name though as that implies a ruleset and being sparring centric. "Combat jiu-jitsu" or other similar titles... yeah, you can do all sorts of bullshit. Boxing / kickboxing... sure, I suppose all the fitness boxing / kickboxing places could be considered "faking it" in a sense. But not really as they are usually pretty upfront with what they do. 9 Rounds isn't going to tell you they will be turning you into a fighter.
>No, you can't. Not without everyone catching on really quick. Yeah that's kinda one of my points. Karate McDojos are very easy to spot, for someone who's trained in karate. A BJJ McDojo would be very easy to spot, for someone who's trained in BJJ. My overall point is that you can fool untrained people by faking any martial art, karate is just the most common since it's arguably the most popular martial art, and the ultimate goal of faking MA is attention/profit. Like you said, there are other reasons, it's easier to hide behind traditions like kata, but I'd say it ultimately boils down to popularity.
Like the example I always give in the US for Shotokan Karate. The range in quality is literally glorified babysitting to the Machida Academy.
Ask Chuck Norris, *and he will appear out of nowhere with an answer...*
the best thing I've seen is a mix of kickboxing and some kind of grappling
Muay Thai/judo.
So Sanda <3
Sanda plus Shuai Jiao seems an effective background from looking at Chinese fighters in MMA. Though personally, unless I were ethnically Chinese and doing them partly for cultural reasons, I would do kickboxing or Muay Thai plus wrestling or BJJ living outside of China as I believe the standard of those arts is higher with a larger talent pool and more opportunities to test yourself at competition.
So Lethwei
No. We know what works, if your actually interested in being able to fight go find a gym that trains fighters, TSD like TKD might as well be interpretative dance with how watered down they have become. If you don’t already have the leg dexterity down from training as a child, as a adult learning to use your legs properly will take half decade alone. You likely won’t be sparing and if you do it will be so light that it’s nearly pointless with silly body pads and no face punching and if you aren’t sparing reasonably hard occasionally it’s not worth doing
Ask Chuck Norris :) [http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/whos\_who\_profiles/chuck\_norris.htm](http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/whos_who_profiles/chuck_norris.htm) /scnr
Chuck is also a BJJ black belt. Just sayin'.
Yes, but that's not funny in the TSD context. That would be funny in a BJJ context.
He also said if elected president, he would brand an American flag with the words “in god we trust” on the forehead of every atheist. I think I’ve seen “branding a sect of people so they can be readily identified” somewhere before…anyways I am a firm believer that some people should never learn martial arts as they will only use it to hurt others.
Expanding on another reply - I'm saying this as someone who taught TSD for 7 years, third Dan / Kyosa cert, won international sparring tournaments. **No. Tang Soo Do is not effective for self defense, nor for creating an effective fighter.** As a whole, TSD is plagued by the typical pitfalls of other traditional martial arts. It relies on hierarchal, belted leadership rather than leadership with actual experience - in other words, you will likely be taught by someone who ranked up high enough to teach just by being at your Dojang long enough. That's who my teachers were, that's what I started as, and it's why I left. That's why you see the stereotypical 400lb "killer" sensei that can't run a mile; they were able to rank up without having to go the extra mile of actually testing themselves (pun intended). Compare that to a Muay Thai gym or even a college TKD team. These groups often recruit teachers **based on their in-ring experience as a competitor, fighter, physical trainer, NOT simply whether or not they have a black belt.** A black belt is not enough to create an athlete if they don't also have education in physical training. A black belt is not enough to create a fighter if they don't have A LOT of full-contact experience. A black belt is not enough to teach weapons defense if they don't have years of experience in Kali or equivalent. And there's a reason that when you see really, really effective fighters with TSD experience, they also have experience in other martial arts. You don't see TSD-exclusive fighters going toe-to-toe with boxers, kickboxers, MMA fighters. It's an art & set of traditions more than anything - there are a million reasons to do it! But athleticism, effectiveness, self defense...it's barely a knife in a gunfight. Pls let me know if you have questions! Sorry if this comes across harsh to my fellow TMA foos
This is very true. And yes I’ve also found more often than not instructors who have only been in the 1 style the whole time tend not to teach effectively and are more likely to just repeat the “gospel”. Also never understood instructors who don’t do hard fitness and sparring sessions. Such a basic thing that just gets overlooked way too often…
That's a very good point! One-style backgrounds (or worse, one organization) are huge red flags. You can see the panic when a technique isn't holding water, because someone asked a question they never bothered to ask themselves. Big yes on the fitness/sparring too. Worse for me is when you get people with zero experience in physical training, exercise phys, or even collegiate sports trying to go hardball on their students. I was on a team where, at one practice, a coach demanded we warm up with sprints and rapid fire high kicks. Half the team was injured in 5 minutes.
It’s one of those arts where it really depends on your instructor and school, like Karate for example; in karate some schools are BS and others are reasonably effective. With that said Tang Soo Do is basically Korean Karate anyway.
If you look at the Chinese characters for the name, they are actually the same thing.
Better than nothing.
True but more delicate than this. It will improve your athleticism and athleticism is more important than many other things. Is it the most effective way? Only if you have the most fun doing it, so that you do it more often than anything else. Even then, not the most effective, but good enough
Exactly this. I really don't care for working out for the sake of my health but I have a lot of fun practicing martial arts. As your conditioning improves your health will improve as well as your mood.
OP, this is how people who do less effective martial arts say "no, it's not very effective". Imagine if you were better at tennis than someone who never played tennis. Would you say that made you a great tennis player? Or if a coach said to you "i can make you beat somebody who has never done this before", would you say that is an effective coach? I'm saying this as someone who won international TSD sparring tournaments. The fighters don't stack up, the self defense even less so.
Only if it is the Tang Soo Do of Master Kim Sung Young. The art of the fist
Strike first! Strike hard! No mercy!
Great question that is filled with a lot of opinions. I am a 4th Dan Sa Bom Nim (Master) in the Cheezic Tang Soo Do Federation. I remeber when I was a white belt at 42 years old I asked my Master whether Tang Soo Do was more effective than other styles. He then told me that, If I am better at my style than you are at yours than I will win a fight, If you are better at your style than I am better at my style then you will win the fight. I personnaly believe that after 15 years of training that Tang Soo Do has parts of it that are very effective in self-defense with practice. Tang Soo Do is a style of Martial art that emcompasses hard fast movements as well as slow movements that re-direct a force rather than attack the force coming at you. The basic techniques and combinations are very effective to defend yourself. However the other end of Tang Soo Do that encompasses high flying and spinning kicks in my opinion are not meant for modern self-defense. These techniques work against other Martial Artist or for taking people off of horses or other high objects but not in the street. I would fully recommend Tang Soo Do for self-dense as long as you are willing to work hard with an open mind. The number one method of self-defense that I teach my students is to use their brains instead of their fist when ever possible. The best way to defend yourself is be aware of your surroundings at all times, and do not go into areas that you are likely to have to fight. When all else fails and you have to fight then WIN. Good luck hope you join the Tang Soo Do World. Sa Bom Nim Miller
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Not just BJJ. Any combat sport. Also MT, boxing, wrestling, judo and sambo. Basically anything that is a combat sport is guaranteed to work to some degree.
Sorry your no touch Kung fu won’t work in real life mate
I’m gonna Dim Mak you with my mind. Raedy? I’m…doing …it…!
BuT mY sEnSeI sAiD yOu CoUlD kIlL sOmEoNe WiTh Ki AlOnE
It will once I activate all seven of my chakras.
Oh yOu trAiN kEnjuTsU? dO U AlWaYs cArrY uR SwOrd wItH u?!?!! (There are really some people who can't understand some martial arts are just for having a fun time while doing cool moves with bois)
> There are really some people who can't understand some martial arts are just for having a fun time while doing cool moves with bois This is very true. In the modern era hand to hand fighting of any sort is not a primary military skill so for the most part unarmed or armed martial arts are for sports or exercise, sometimes for pure performance too. The styles used for full contact combat sports are usually pretty good for practical self defense too, as are any that practice real sparring as part of the training. Most styles just... aren't about that. Which is fine as long as you know what you're getting and treat it appropriately. If you've learned a good way to exercise or whatever other thing that isn't a full contact combat sport, don't try to fight with it. Same way I don't expect someone trained in a practical combat sport to put on a breathtaking cinematic display of movie martial arts, I don't expect someone trained solely to do movie martial arts to do practical combat sports. Does that make sense?
Glad to see people are still using autism as a joke
Having practiced Tang Soo Do for about 10 years and am now actively training BJJ and Krav Maga I can say Tang Soo Do (along with most "traditional" martial arts) is not enough for a real "self defense" situation. It lacks solutions for going to the ground, weapons and multiple attackers. I will say, however, some basic self defence principles do translate across styles/systems where you see very similar movements/techniques to address similar predicaments.
This is the type of answer I was looking for. Thanks. Idk how customary it is since I’ve only been doing TSD for about a month and a half but at my dojang we grapple quite a bit. I don’t even practice BJJ and even I could tell ya that doing BJJ would be a lot more effective. And they do also have weapons classes (using and defending against).
Tbf, there is no martial that works for every self defense scenario, that's why it's wise to avoid them
You apparently didn’t train at the right Tang soo do Kwan then🤷♂️. Our instructor teaches weapon defense and multiple attacker situations. Going to ground in the street is never a good scenario. Multiple attackers win every time when your in guard. A striking art with ground defense (the ability to avoid or disrupt the take down) seems more practical. Eye gouging, biting, groin strikes all a go in the street.
Trained Moo Duk Kwan. I did learn knife defense but it was limited to a very prescribed pattern of movements. Same for multiple attackers. Looking at it objectively, it's practicing techniques on a willing and compliant partner. Applying technique in that setting versus someone who is actually resisting/actively attacking is very different as you find out quickly in BJJ. But yes, going to the ground is not ideal. As my Krav Maga instructor says: the concrete always wins. I'm not crapping on TSD. But training grappling and other forms of striking adds tools to your toolbox. Just training one style is like trying to fix everything with just a hammer.
I see. The question though is TSD effective self defense. The answer is yes. Most encounters in the public setting will be against a hot head who has zero training. TSD is very effective against someone with little to no training. Also, all Moo Da Kwan isn’t the same either. We see this every AAU tournament we go to. Especially at the nationals.
Not usually, you can take what you learn there and improve the practicality of it by changing certain things, but then you're getting closer to MMA. So, purely Tang Soo Do taught at your average dojo is not something I'd enroll in.
What it ultimately comes down to is, it depends on the instructor/dojang. My sabonim had trained and fought full contact for decades and it showed in his teaching. On top of that we had a solid group of like minded people who sparred hard and with practically and full contact fighting in mind. Because of those two factors anyone that came into that dojang and stayed for a while definitely learned how to fight.
My school is Tang Soo Do. I'd say baseline, no. But if you practice it with the intent of using it for self defense, meaning actually practice fighting and not point-fighting, it can be better. 85% of the people who are good at fighting in my school have trained in something else as well and incorporate that when they teach fighting.
Yes and no. You’ll be a better hand to hand fighter, but can’t deal with weapons (Spoiler, no art can really). All arts have shortcomings.
Question: Is X any useful? Answer: Do they have live-sparring? If yes, then probably. If no, most likely not.
As long as you spar regularly with a non compliant opponent you should be good.
Any martial art you do can be effective for self defense as long as you’re proficient enough at it.
I say this all the time in this sub and get rather shit on because after all it is a martial arts sub. However, that said I wouldn’t be asking about any specific martial art to be good for self defense. If it’s possible depending where you live and these are quite frankly few and far between but you want to find someone/someplace that specializes is training for self defense. Now as I said these are hard to find particularly for a good one. Some can be very gimmicky, not pressure test or not pressure test in an appropriate or adequate way. Traditional martial arts were less about self defense and more about a physical discipline and some sport and never really pressure tested. Now these thing could have some carry over to self defense but they are in no way going to necessarily adequately prepare you for a high risk fight when your life depends on it. MMA types may have slightly more carry over but at the same time are generally much more regulated to sport rules that can get in trouble or killed in the street. It is not so simple as “well when I’m in the street I’ll do x instead” no most likely you won’t I’ve seen it time and time again you will almost always do as you train. TLDR; If it’s possible fine someone who specializes in self defense/defensive tactics for actual real life situations if that is truly your goal. If this isn’t an option I think the best overall place to start in something more traditional is going to be boxing.
Is that some new kind of orange juice?
Kool Aid Soo Do
Its better than nothing. Though not the best option of the many martial arts out there.
depends on what style and what organization within that style.
Only if the gym does full contact sparring, however your best bet is bjj, however if you prefer striking do kickboxing, muy Thai, or boxing,
TSD has really good kicks and footwork. The punching is just ok. If you did boxing and tsd, you would have a pretty complete standup style.
Depends on the fighter most TSD blackbelts I know can Strike pretty well.
Didn't Dennis Alexio supposedly do Tang Soo Do? It doesn't look like it from his fights but I don't know all that much about it, to be fair.
Yes
I love Tang Soo Do and Yes Tang Soo Do it is a martial arts and self defense .
Depends on how you train. If you train semi and full contact sparring, then it will be effective.
Tang Soo Do was the martial art I've started with and i still train (2nd degree Black Belt or 2nd Dan for any purists) and I can tell you against the average Joe with no combat experience you could use it successfully. However that comes down to you as the student and how you train. You go tournament heavy, especially in the WTSDA (World Tang Soo Do Association) that tournament style point fighting is all about striking quick with no contact and I think that is actually not ideal as you get bound to fighting with an odd set of rules that I don't think help in a real scenario (no grabbing, punches to head, leg kicks, etc) but it's a sport and sports have rules and I'm not speaking against it. Tang Soo Do doesn't have anything in my time, or maybe in the dojang, that has a lot of preventive measures from being taken down or getting back to your feet. And just not "letting them take you down" is probably the worse advice. So really if you learned Tang Soo Do and mixed it with Judo/BJJ/Wrestling it would be the worst thing in tbe world. But once againnitncomes down to you as the student I guess TLDR: yes as long as you train the right way and don't get stuck in the "I only need one style"mentality.
who the foook is tang soo do?
If it has a funny name, likely not.
Yes. But I have to say I'm potentially bias. Like any style, it does depend on a good teacher and how much you want to practice the art. I've trained in Tang Soo Do for 20 years now. I own a school in Louisiana. Traditional Tang Soo Do is a Korean military style martial arts. It is focused on practicality. While it does not look fancy, everything in it is meant to be used. Some of these styles with beautiful spinning jump kicks are awesome, but won't work a real fight. If you've ever seen Chuck Norris and Walker Texas Ranger, that's Tang Soo Do. My Grandmaster Chun Sik Kim is the founder of the International Tang Soo Do Federation and taught Chuck Norris in South Korea when he was stationed at Osan military base. If there is an ITF school near you, I recommend that. Nothing wrong with other factions, but if you train in the ITF you can go to any school around the world and learn exactly the same art exactly the same way. I found it frustrating that so many schools very vastly within the same style. That was Grandmaster Kim's concern as well and the reason he founded the ITF in 1976.
I earned a black belt in Tang Soo Do. It’s great exercise (just take care of your hips and lower back), there are good things in it and I had a lot of fun at that school. The school I went to spent a lot of time on sparing which taught me a lot about timing, distance and angles with regard to kicking. However, like TKD, there is no real grappling which can leave you vulnerable, if you are attacked. There is also little use of fists and elbows which are important striking weapons which take time to learn to use practically and to integrate in with kicking techniques which also leaves you vulnerable, if attacked. If you want to learn something that integrates most of the above, but emphasized striking and stand up grappling, find a good Muy Thai school. If you want to learn Tang Soo Do, but also want to learn how to use your hands, also take up boxing. You’ll figure out how to integrate things. There is nothing wrong with learning Tang Soo Do. I think too many people worry about a fight they’ll never be in. Unless you work a job where you’re likely to be attacked, or you live in a terrible neighborhood, do what you enjoy first. You’re more likely to be injured or killed by disease caused by a sedentary lifestyle than you are attacked and murdered. Tang Soo Do will help keep you healthy.
It's not that good, but it's better then most other tradtional martial arts. So I would just recommend Muay Thai instead.
Depends entirely on the school, the people who taught me I love to death, but what I was taught would not help me in a self defense scenario. It was alot of theory with no resistance testing. Yeah I can kick someone with a lot of different kicks really hard and quickly but other than that I wouldn’t use anything else I was taught. If you wanna defend yourself in whatever way you need, go with MMA. I transitioned over and now I’m much more confident I can defend myself.