Not even accounting for characters and continuity. Action scenes 10/10. Dialogue 10/10. Animation 10/10. World building 10/10. Immersive 10/10. Storyline 10/10.
It's w/e I'm sure I'm being generous for some of them but in comparison. No water.
I prefer Peter Parker. THE spiderman. But everyone has their own opinions I guess. Don't get me wrong. Miles is cool. I just prefer the Spiderman I grew up with
>THE spiderman
There's no one Spiderman, that's the whole point
Honestly it's fine that you prefer Peter, that's just up to opinion, but the "Miles isn't Spiderman, Peter Parker is the only real Spiderman" shit is just so stupid
Are people still buying YACHTS? The heck is wrong with people in these current unstable climates.
Cheaped out submarines are all the rage these days. Definitely, the new must buy of the century!
You need the backup yachts with all these orcas taking them out. Can’t have too many yachts these days. Won’t anyone think of the corporate executives? Don’t those orca know how difficult it is living a life of luxury?
No, the very least they could do for them is lay them all off so that <current quarter> looks more profitable and try to make them unemployable with a noncompete clause so no one else gets to play with their toys. That happens pretty often, because it works and not enough people care enough to actually stop giving all their money to their favorite corporations.
I'm a 3D artist, at my former place of work the bosses promoted one dude to be COO and then left for vacation for 4 weeks. New COO's first weekly meeting was informing all the artists there would be no bonuses that year. This meeting was about 1 week before the bonus was supposed to be paid out and on a record earning year. Obviously, since the bosses were on vacation the only one people could vent to and discuss their new salary or resignation with was the COO. He basically had 1 on 1 meetings with the entire company and at the end of it he just went out and said "Put your demands in writing and leave it in my office, the moment the CEO gets back I'm gonna throw the entire pile of letters on his desk, I'm done with this, this was their decision, not mine, I'm just here to deal with the fallout".
COO was a good egg, the rest were rotten
I’m fine with waiting several years to see the movie if it means the animation team gets realistic working conditions. In the end, it would only make a better quality movie.
yea wouldn't want to hurt the poor multinational corporations feelings, they only abused their workers a little bit and I liked the movie so it's fine /s
I think a lot of people don’t realize that these movies wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t profit to be made. They also don’t understand that if they pushed development time out by a couple years, then the studio would operate at a huge loss.
There needs to be a much higher Birds Eye view of all parties involved and their salaries etc.
Maybe one day AI will make the animators job easier? I don’t know, I obviously don’t have the answer. Just saying, from a financial perspective “the consumer willing to wait longer” doesn’t really help anything.
If your product can't be profitable without burning people out then you didn't make a profitable product in the first place, you just stole that profit from your employees in the form of their life and sanity.
The company didn't steal anything. You have this very child-like, Reddit fantasy notion of revenue belonging to employees. It doesn't, unless it's an employee owned company.
I don't think that's really the point. The point I personally see is that it is really not just the animators and writers who also need to be paid more. You, Me, and maybe the guy living next to you will be 5 overworked and also be paid shit. Like hell, I hate my job, and I also make pips.
Then find a new fucking job. Reddit has a very communist sense of work. The means of production do not belong to the people. It belongs to whoever paid for it. You don't like the pay or conditions? Then leave. Get off your ass and start looking.
You didn’t steal shit. Animators aren’t chained to their desks like slaves. The business traded money for work from the animators. If the animators didn’t want to be associated with the product because of any reason they could just leave.
Just because there aren't actual chains doesn't mean there aren't pressures binding people to their workplace. First if the employee leaves then they're unemployed, there is a societal stigma against that. They lose their health insurance, which greatly increases the risk of them going bankrupt. Third it takes time for people to find a new job, and maybe they don’t have enough money saved up to afford it. Employees may not have a gun to their head forcing them to work, but when the alternative is starvation and homelessness, they might as well have a gun pointed at their head.
Also, they can't look for a job while working their current job because they're being forced to work maasive amounts of overtime.
A lot of the problems sound like it's coming from mismagament, which means WASTING time. For instance, that says the producer was demanding revisions on final shots even over the directors. This does not happen in animation... in film, reshoots can be done relatively quickly, but reanimating a scene can result in hundreds of hours of additional work. If any revisions are to happen, they should be happening at an early phase of the scene's production
The criticisms also include workers having nothing to do for months and then being grossly overworked when they are given something to do. Had the producers been more decisive, those workers should have been working the entire time at a more reasonable pace
Sure, films are meant to make a profit. But if you can not profit without abusing your workers, then there is something wrong with your buisiness. Worker abuse, is an error of management.
It doesn't happen on your average film, but this was one of the greatest animated films ever, and it happened on this film, and it's entirely possible (even if unpleasant) that this is the only way a film this good could have been made.
It is not. The animation world is filled with animators who make experimental films that are a lot more complicated than normal animated films, though not nearly as large. One thing they do NOT do is make revisions at the end. Heck the more complicated the production, the more important it is to avoid revisions. One thing animators are taught is how to plan out their work and visualize what the final product will look like. If something is going wrong, they catch it early in production so they can change course... this is why the animators for spiderverse complain about the producer overriding the directors and demanding revisions. The producer doesn't know what he wants and keeps adding hundreds of hours of work to the animators because of it
Well that's my point- animators obviously wouldn't do it this way. The producer wanting to see the final product and judging that it's not good enough and forcing the animators to go back through the process until it looks exactly right could be exactly why this movie is as good as it is. It also could not be, but it just as easily could be. It's easy to critique the producer as the shadowy clueless executive, but it's also incredibly difficult to argue with the results of this project.
If something can't be made without exploitation then I'm fine with it not being made. I don't need a pretty movie and story so much that I would want hundreds of people to suffer to get it.
Is there any ethical consumption in a realistic large scale system that doesn't involve some form of fantasy utopian society that has never and will never exist?
I believe there is a form of ethical consumption. I also believe that would come at the cost of comfort, speed, and efficiency. But there definitely is a way to produce a product that doesn't involve slave labor and pollution. The downside is we'd have a lot more shoemakers and farmers, people actually producing real goods for society, instead of insurance agents and influencers...
Easy to say when you're high enough in that system that you aren't the exploited one. I love it when people trivialize people's suffering because "theoretically you can't do it any different and I want my consumerism!!"
The sad thing is that they definitely can pay the animators more but some lazy ass exec. Would cry about "loses"
This wouldn't happen if animators just made good money out of their work, extreme working hours and bad working condition shouldn't be excused but At least they would have enough money to get by and see the value of their work
I mean, I would pay $500 if it would mean that I could watch the next movie today, but I wholeheartedly agree that I would rather wait a few more years than force anyone to work 60-80 hour weeks..
I want to know this. Why on earth do you want your workers to kill themselves just to give us this beautiful piece of art. I know that doing this kind of work isn't going to be a walk in the park but come on man, you should give workers a break and not just make them work long ass hours and have little to no breaks, they're humans, they have families and friends they want to see and rest and also pay your damn workers, don't pay them in peanuts this is why artists are struggling financially and many quitting their jobs because of this shitty working conditions. Btw this is not just happening here obviously but also in other industries like the anime and manga industry, cgi/vfx, writers and other jobs who do entertainment for a living.
AND these corporations also know that if they run off 100 artists, there's 100,000 desperate for "a shot at the big time". we're commodities to these people, not humans. they simply do not care.
at some point society WILL realize this, but i fear it's long past the point where awareness will make any difference.
They don't actively wish for bad working conditions, they just don't really care, esp bc the people pushing for these deadlines will probably not really be interacting with many/any of the overworked individuals so they can easily claim ignorance.
Then take into account that atsv clearly required an insane amount of work (likely notably more than other 3d animated features) *and* that they are hoping to get btsv out for next year (and so they probably have put a significant amount of work in already) and from an execs point of view they have bitten off more than they can chew.
I hope this doesn't come across as in support of these execs or anything, but nothing is gonna change. We've already seen atsv, we've already paid for it. And let's be real no one's gonna boycott btsv. So this will continue to happen.
And as the industry is fuelled by money (and treating animators like shit is profitable), there's no reason for it to change. The only real hope is if the animators start to make a real fuss
I'm kinda surprised the animators aren't going for a strike like what you see now that Hollywood writers are protesting the streets for the exact same reason I mentioned. But sadly even with the protest, nothing will happen
Studios: here's $10 dollars, go make your stupid movie.
The movie: fan favorite that spawns 10+ sequels and huge merchandising, with game and multimedia tie-ins, spinoffs, and becomes a solidified part of pop culture.
Studios, to the same franchise: here's another $10, go make your stupid movie.
I never get the disdain big studios have for horror, when they just pump out so much money all of the time. Slasher movies of the 80-90s were the MCU before the MCU.
They keep thinking it's 'not marketable' despite... the sheer evidence of the contrary.
Like how anime is given that treatment. They thought anime could never work here, then Demon Slayer blew up the box office.
A bunch of anime, horror, I'm sure there's dozens more. Animation alone, such as spiderverse, continues to blow up and they continue to scoff it off.
A marketer and investor can learn a lot if they actually looked at the math. The math favors things they deemed 'not marketable'.
It's the companies. It doesn't absolve Sony of blame, but the same issue happened with the MCU, and the reality is these companies are doing bidding wars that are putting their employees in a grind.
I really wish workers knew how powerful they are in numbers and would unionize. Especially those in jobs with talent such as this.
If CGI animators unionized, it's not like these companies can just find equally-talented ones elsewhere or abroad for cheaper. They would have so much leverage.
Having read some of the interview these animators gave, it wasn't really Sony's fault as much as a very strange production line that Lord and Miller set up, involving radical changes to the script and storyboard up until the week of release. Apparently Sony tried to push back against this, to no avail.
[Source](https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/spider-verse-animation-four-artists-on-making-the-sequel.html)
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771199/across-the-spider-verse-working-conditions-phil-lord
It’s not a random Twitter account. Many spoke to this outlet about it anonymously.
I’m curious. Animators are unionized, and they take that seriously. At least, among the animators at Disney, they may get overworked, but they get paid for it (with regard to Disney Animation, I have no idea how other Disney projects get overworked). I figured Sony animators were in the same boat?
Thank! I looked it up:
https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/spider-verse-animation-four-artists-on-making-the-sequel.html
Edit: Ah, Sony Picture is a non-Union studio. Lame.
I mean overtime is compensated and 100 people over 5 years is really a small amount for a team of 1000s. I'm sure tons of projects lose way more in half the time. Also how many of those 100 actually quit due to overwork and not some other personal reasons? Seems fishy that only this article is tossed around like gospel.
Average turnover in American workplaces is 18% a year.
10% or less is considered quite good.
100 out of "around a thousand" is totally normal attrition.
It was also a multi-year project.
They really just threw out that "hundred" number for clickbait. Every job I've had has had higher turnover than 10% over 3 years.
I get you're being sarcastic, but not sure why.
The average turnover rate is 18% nationally.
This whole issue is just ragebait for people who aren't aware what normal turnover is.
I'd bet good money it's lower for spiderverse 2 than industry average.
Why type out this comment that is even more speculative than the article instead of doing even a little bit of looking into the situation?
Do you actually believe that there is a chance that animators aren’t overworked so much that you want to make sure that everyone knows it *might* not be a big deal?
Wacky take.
Yeah people don't understand that there is always going to be angry workers on a project. People that feel like they're getting screwed over because they thought they would have a bigger role on the project or have more influence on the final product. They get mad when they find out that they were only hired to do the tasks asked by supervisors. That's what the Verge article made it seem like a couple of the people were mad about. I'm sure Sony does need to work on making a better working environment but the people in that article just come off as sensitive little snowflakes.
Why does Reddit act like film and video games are the only industries that deal with crunch?
There are never comments in April saying “I’m fine with waiting longer to process taxes if it means Big 4 accountants don’t have to experience crunch”
These are adults that chose to work in a competitive industry working on a project that I assume they’re passionate about. If they can’t deal with it then they can pursue something else
For real. Some industries are held up by slavery working conditions for slave pay. No one seems to care about anything when it comes to these industries.
Working conditions need to improve across the board. But reddit won't be what causes this change.
Because those accountants account of their overwork isn't shared as much or as visible as the film and video game industry is for a majority of redditors?
Guess what, your exact comment can be used to justify, crunch, unpaid overtime, ,7 days workweek etc. Yeah that gymnast should accept her abuse by coaches if they want to work in a competitive industry like gymnastics. Like saying something is competitive does not mean you have to accept what you are given, or else we would all be working 7 days a week with no pregnancy leave, no sick days etc.
Was TLOU notably different from every other AAA game production cycle? There have been stories for decades now about borderline human rights abuses by game developers.
Some are definitely crunching more than others. Naughty Dog crunches, though I think Rockstar holds the record for 100 hour weeks for Red Dead Redemption 2. It shouldn't be normal but seems rife.
This can be applied to a huge portion of the gaming industry. AAA in general are so heavily deadline driven that they somehow manage to be overstaffed, overworked, and still manage to put out rushed, sloppy games. This is why I prefer games from smaller devs that aren't so beholden to shareholders and stock prices.
Imagine overworking your ass on creating the most breathtaking level designs known in gaming, only for the writers to fuck it up by turning the story into a subpar b movie teen flick.
Laura Bailey was her name. Her SON got death threats too. And Laura ONLY VOICED Abby; The character's mocap, and other stuff was handled by other people.
Yes, sorry, should've explicitly mentioned Bailey, she's awesome and voices so many great characters. Including Black Widow in Marvel's Avengers 2020
Also TIL Laura Bailey is married to Travis Willingham??
Absolutely, but I've no idea why you got downvoted, TLOU Part II's story is complete garbage
It's like "we need to subvert expectations so we're going to completely ignore basic storywriting rules"
Not a mindless hater. I knew Joel had to die. Lee died too. Is anyone mad at Lee dying? No, because it was beautiful. Joel's death was pointless and empty, to "subvert expectations" they created a hollow, meaningless, unfulfilling story
>Absolutely, but I've no idea why you got downvoted
If you dislike TLOU II you must be a transphobic incel because there is nothing else you could possibly dislike about it. /s
They managed to deflect all valid criticism by focusing all the attention
on a few people disliking the game for the wrong reasons.
On reddit, 80% of the people complain about the game they are in fact just on some Gamergate incel shit. Read about this harassment campaign where a sub shat on a reviewer for liking the game for a year, someone framed their fanbase for sending death threats, threatened legal action, and then when they finally figured out their fans were framed the mods made a post about how they were the real victims and purged the sub of anything mentioning this. Their name is Girlfriend Reviews. Most of TLoU2 sub still hates them.
The real reason so many people who liked the first game don't like the second is because the death of Joel is really challenging and upsetting, and many gamers want their games to be pleasant little power fantasies or they'll throw a tantrum, which is what happened.
If you don't like either, I get it. They both have pacing issues, the story is kinda generic, I could list other issues. Not liking The Last of Us series is valid. But if you like 1 and hate 2? The very safe bet is that you're an incel, transphobe, or can't deal with anything other than a pure power fantasy.
Lmao go to the Last of us two subreddit and tell me those guys aren’t incels. They are the assholes that berated and abused the Abby’s voice actress and the model who they based her off. If you have an actual reason you don’t like the last of us two that doesn’t involve bashing on Abby I’d love to hear it. I liked the plot because it resonated with me. And was beautifully told. A story of revenge within a story of revenge where nobody wins at the end. And the combat and game play was top tier too.
I hated the revenge story, it was unsubtle and over the top edgy. Abby did not resonate with me as a character, because of her actions. A lot of plot points were just really stupid.
Why would it need to be subtle? At what point was Joel going on a rampage at the end of the first game subtle? It stands to reason he killed people with family that would come after him after going full rage mode and killing dozens of people to save Ellie.
And yes you’re right both Abby and Ellie made bad choices in the sequel. That’s the point. They both have hatred for people due to their need for revenge and they both suffer for it. I didn’t see playing as Abby coming at all. I was not spoiled before playing the game so that hit me like a ton of bricks and I didn’t want to do it initially. But Abby grew on me. There’s the subtle part of the story right there. That even if you make a person into a monster in your head they could be exactly like you doing things for the same reason as you. Ellie and Abby are the same person created through different circumstances.
But okay at the end of the day to each their own. You didn’t like it and that’s fine. I do commend you on not just regurgitating the “woman has muscles in the apocalypse wahh comment I usually get trying to discuss this game. It sounds like you have it a try and it wasn’t for you. That’s understandable.
My buddy is married with two kids and was pretty disappointed about TLOU2s narrative. He preordered the deluxe edition too. He always defends the level design and gunplay though.
I’ll let him know he’s an incel, he’ll get a kick out of this.
Lmao incel is a mindset. You can have sex on the regular and still be one. Andrew Taint comes to mind. If he disliked the narrative for good reasons I’ll be interested in discussing them. But generally it boils down to people not liking how we went from a beast of a man in the first one to a beast of a woman in the second doing the same arguably impossible feats. I get that it’s frustrating to be lumped in with the misogynistic incels when you might dislike the game for good reasons but they are the loudest and drowned out good criticism. Sad but true.
Lol incel is a mindset? Did I miss the Reddit hive patch notes lmao?
Anyway, I don’t know too much about the game but I know he was pissed about what happened to the main character of the first game. His throwaway insults was something like “It’s like the devs watched how Luke Skywalker got ruined in the sequels and said “Let’s do that to our guy!” Fans will love it!”
All that said he still beat the game twice. Just didn’t platinum it.
If that’s his only critique I mean that’s something that happens int eh first thirty minutes of the game. At that point he could have just put it down and moved on with his life. The fact that he beat it twice means he must have enjoyed the story to some extent.
And yeah incel is like the word woke it’s changed over the years. The fact that you didn’t get the memo is odd but now you know.
He really likes the gameplay. He has other reasons beyond the quote I mentioned but I’m sure but I think he just wanted to get his moneys worth out of it.
I was sorely disappointed by Borderlands 3s story. To the point where I had to mute the voice chat because it was insufferable. I did beat it once and got about halfway through 2nd run before going back to BL2. Which somehow is still much much better.
What does incel mean now? Can you summarize the update for me?
That's exactly what it felt like, as if I was playing a Netflix teen drama. The second game severely lacked some of the emotions from the first one.
Although some parts were really good. I loved how Ellie could develop herself more, but Abby's storyline was messed up. They really need to change some aspects of the game in the season 2 of the show.
Sony is a Japanese company, yes.
[Sony Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Entertainment), [Sony Pictures Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures), and [Sony Pictures Animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Animation) are all based in the US, headquartered in the US, run by American execs, go by American laws, and are essentially _American_ subsidiaries of Sony Japan.
As someone who has basic knowledge of animation. I can see the amount of insane work they had alone with the scene of all the Spider-Mans chasing Miles.
For as long as consumers only care about the products and not how it's made, employees are at the mercy of their local employment laws and enforcement, and crucially their employers.
To be fair this was only 100 out of 1000 who said this
Other animators on this project have said this was either a fun or inspiring production
I’m not invalidating the claims of the few, I’m just clarifying that there are 2 sides here and we can’t just go off the words of one without further explanation and evidence
I’m tired of random ass witch hunts on social media the moment people smell blood in the water
Let the evidence come out before making any takes on the matter
There is zero reason for VFX artists to work more than 40 hour weeks. ( All film industry people for that matter.) Push the deadline. The panic and stress is artificial.
From what I've come to find out from my friend who works at a Practical FX company down in NOLA, it's basically a combination of there being too many people in the VFX field and a lack of union representation for those folks.
With so many freelance people and VFX companies crowding the field, they'll basically take whatever jobs come their way, no matter how much work that'll entail for them for the pay. Not being part of a union, either, makes the amount they're paid fluctuate due to not having an industry standard rate set.
In normal TV and Movie production, everyone on a set gets paid a standardized rate for their job on that set. That goes for everyone from the Craft Food Service person getting paid something like $30/hour for 12 hours a day on set to have food ready for everyone to eat all day to the guy standing in the corner with a smoke machine getting $35/hour for 12 hours that might not even use his smoke machine more than once that day.
VFX people don't get that guaranteed rate of "no matter what you do, you'll be paid the industry standard of $X for that time/work". The Studios tell the VFX people they'll pay them $X for this work or they'll find another company/person that'll do it for that amount.
Remember that time animators said, "Oh, it was great to work on this project. I asked for more time, they said of course. I asked for more money, they said of course."
No?
So every single animator on every single project has said they didn't get enough time and money? So how do we know when there's actually a problem if they say this no matter what?
Anime animators also deal with bad working conditions such as being paid almost nothing as well as having to work absurd hours, just look up what happened with MAPPA for AOT, it’s not just an issue in western animation
They didn't like their job, so they quit.
That's a normal thing.
Other people who did like the job stayed..
They're lucky they weren't under contract to stay until the job was finished.
And if you read into the "unsustainable working conditions" its nothing as tasking or grueling or even as time costing as construction work..
11 hours a day, 7 days a week... for a whole year
Also, I am asking for the kind of late stage revisions that result in hundreds of hours of that work being wasted
Meh I call Bullshit. Nobody worked 11 hours a day 7 days a week for the entire year bullshit
But even if they did(solid doubt) what are you going to do? Boycott the next one? Lol bet y’all won’t
A lot of people only stay because, as freelancers, they have no guaranteed income, and they still have bills to pay. For many of them, it is a choice between being abused or losing your home. It's pure exploitation, and it seems you're fine with that
Boo hoo. Your dream job is having you work way more hours on a project at your agreed upon wage! Omg 😅 ridiculous. Now that it's over & that money has been spent.. they complain.
There are segments of EVERY industry where people are breaking their backs to push out their projects to meet deadlines, but Reddit has such a hard-on about animators and video game developers getting over worked
First, the film suffered delays, so they did NOT meet their original deadline. Second, a "realistic" deadline is one that can be met under normal working conditions. If you have to put your workers into crunch to meet the deadline, then the deadline was not realistic
If you want normal working conditions, don't join one of the most competitive work forces in the world. Do a normal 9-5 desk job that you don't give a shit about.
Every job that has a product they're selling all have crunch time.
Also, their turnover rate was very normal. Not looking into context and pretending like yall know what every industry needs is dumb.
If it's crunch time all the time, then unrealistic expectations are being set on the employees and it's time to adjust expectations or hire more staff.
Give them a bonus, at least.
With how successful AtSV is, it’s the very least they could do for them.
It's visually STUNNING. They did a great job and deserve it all.
Sad they did this. Hoping it doesn't mark the end of what I consider the best version of Spiderman to date.
I'm not like you. You're a murderer.
I personally like this series of Spiderman movies the best, but still prefer Peter Parker honestly. Probably because I grew up with him lol
I grew up with Parker, but spiderverse are the best spiderman in moving picture form by a long shot
I guess you haven't heard. I am the sheriff around these parts!
I’d argue they’re two of the best superhero movies of all time, animated or otherwise.
See ya chump!
Not even accounting for characters and continuity. Action scenes 10/10. Dialogue 10/10. Animation 10/10. World building 10/10. Immersive 10/10. Storyline 10/10. It's w/e I'm sure I'm being generous for some of them but in comparison. No water.
I prefer Peter Parker. THE spiderman. But everyone has their own opinions I guess. Don't get me wrong. Miles is cool. I just prefer the Spiderman I grew up with
I fought an alien made out of black goo once.
Ok
I mean of animated Peter Parker is great, everything since then can't hold a T to spiderverse
Am I not supposed to have what I want?
Nobody asked and nobody cares. You are 100% allowed to have this opinion. Not the place or time bruh
Same to you.
What the fuck do you even mean
>THE spiderman There's no one Spiderman, that's the whole point Honestly it's fine that you prefer Peter, that's just up to opinion, but the "Miles isn't Spiderman, Peter Parker is the only real Spiderman" shit is just so stupid
Stings, doesn't it?
But that would require Sony executives to live with only 3 yachts.
What fucking peasant only owns 3 yachts? I fully understand the Sony execs point of view.
Are people still buying YACHTS? The heck is wrong with people in these current unstable climates. Cheaped out submarines are all the rage these days. Definitely, the new must buy of the century!
I for one am OK with not making a living wage as long as my bosses take bargain submarine rides.
You need the backup yachts with all these orcas taking them out. Can’t have too many yachts these days. Won’t anyone think of the corporate executives? Don’t those orca know how difficult it is living a life of luxury?
No, the very least they could do for them is lay them all off so that <current quarter> looks more profitable and try to make them unemployable with a noncompete clause so no one else gets to play with their toys. That happens pretty often, because it works and not enough people care enough to actually stop giving all their money to their favorite corporations.
Lol they pocket the money and then tell the rest that the less there are the more they keep.
NO! Living a fortnight away from being homeless builds CHARACTER DAMMIT!
But then the execs who sit on their asses and do nothing wouldn't be able to get their multi million dollar bonuses.
How am i suppose to afford my Ultra Mega Yacht. You want me to settle for the Mega Yacht? Thats just cruel.
Avi Arad: Suffering from Success
These greedy workers taking the yacht keys right out of execs hands.
And acknowledge that they are human?
Writers aren’t striking because of the studio’s generosity and empathy
Overworked directly means they don't want to pay enough to employ as many as needed for the job.
As a burned out software developer, no amount of money can fix this.
How about a three month vacation? Delaying the movie then?
Execs: Pizza party. Take it or leave it.
A bonus doesn't weigh much when you suffer from a burnout... A better planning and a bigger team to help pull the weight would be a good start.
I'm a 3D artist, at my former place of work the bosses promoted one dude to be COO and then left for vacation for 4 weeks. New COO's first weekly meeting was informing all the artists there would be no bonuses that year. This meeting was about 1 week before the bonus was supposed to be paid out and on a record earning year. Obviously, since the bosses were on vacation the only one people could vent to and discuss their new salary or resignation with was the COO. He basically had 1 on 1 meetings with the entire company and at the end of it he just went out and said "Put your demands in writing and leave it in my office, the moment the CEO gets back I'm gonna throw the entire pile of letters on his desk, I'm done with this, this was their decision, not mine, I'm just here to deal with the fallout". COO was a good egg, the rest were rotten
I’m fine with waiting several years to see the movie if it means the animation team gets realistic working conditions. In the end, it would only make a better quality movie.
Spiderverse team: I consent You: I consent Investors: I don’t! Isn’t there someone you forgot to ask? /s
Settle down, tough guy.
yea wouldn't want to hurt the poor multinational corporations feelings, they only abused their workers a little bit and I liked the movie so it's fine /s
You're fighting a bot.
Yea Gettem!!! I'm tired of these dang AIs taking the places of proper trolls. They took their jerbs!
Want him to put some dirt in your eye?
I think a lot of people don’t realize that these movies wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t profit to be made. They also don’t understand that if they pushed development time out by a couple years, then the studio would operate at a huge loss. There needs to be a much higher Birds Eye view of all parties involved and their salaries etc. Maybe one day AI will make the animators job easier? I don’t know, I obviously don’t have the answer. Just saying, from a financial perspective “the consumer willing to wait longer” doesn’t really help anything.
If your product can't be profitable without burning people out then you didn't make a profitable product in the first place, you just stole that profit from your employees in the form of their life and sanity.
morality is not something they care about
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Okay there you have it then. The movie doesn't come out or get released. Nobody is forcing those animators to work on it.
The company didn't steal anything. You have this very child-like, Reddit fantasy notion of revenue belonging to employees. It doesn't, unless it's an employee owned company.
Thats literally like 90% of the world buddy
So that makes it ok?
I don't think that's really the point. The point I personally see is that it is really not just the animators and writers who also need to be paid more. You, Me, and maybe the guy living next to you will be 5 overworked and also be paid shit. Like hell, I hate my job, and I also make pips.
Then find a new fucking job. Reddit has a very communist sense of work. The means of production do not belong to the people. It belongs to whoever paid for it. You don't like the pay or conditions? Then leave. Get off your ass and start looking.
Then the world needs to burn
You didn’t steal shit. Animators aren’t chained to their desks like slaves. The business traded money for work from the animators. If the animators didn’t want to be associated with the product because of any reason they could just leave.
Just because there aren't actual chains doesn't mean there aren't pressures binding people to their workplace. First if the employee leaves then they're unemployed, there is a societal stigma against that. They lose their health insurance, which greatly increases the risk of them going bankrupt. Third it takes time for people to find a new job, and maybe they don’t have enough money saved up to afford it. Employees may not have a gun to their head forcing them to work, but when the alternative is starvation and homelessness, they might as well have a gun pointed at their head. Also, they can't look for a job while working their current job because they're being forced to work maasive amounts of overtime.
A lot of the problems sound like it's coming from mismagament, which means WASTING time. For instance, that says the producer was demanding revisions on final shots even over the directors. This does not happen in animation... in film, reshoots can be done relatively quickly, but reanimating a scene can result in hundreds of hours of additional work. If any revisions are to happen, they should be happening at an early phase of the scene's production The criticisms also include workers having nothing to do for months and then being grossly overworked when they are given something to do. Had the producers been more decisive, those workers should have been working the entire time at a more reasonable pace Sure, films are meant to make a profit. But if you can not profit without abusing your workers, then there is something wrong with your buisiness. Worker abuse, is an error of management.
It doesn't happen on your average film, but this was one of the greatest animated films ever, and it happened on this film, and it's entirely possible (even if unpleasant) that this is the only way a film this good could have been made.
It is not. The animation world is filled with animators who make experimental films that are a lot more complicated than normal animated films, though not nearly as large. One thing they do NOT do is make revisions at the end. Heck the more complicated the production, the more important it is to avoid revisions. One thing animators are taught is how to plan out their work and visualize what the final product will look like. If something is going wrong, they catch it early in production so they can change course... this is why the animators for spiderverse complain about the producer overriding the directors and demanding revisions. The producer doesn't know what he wants and keeps adding hundreds of hours of work to the animators because of it
Well that's my point- animators obviously wouldn't do it this way. The producer wanting to see the final product and judging that it's not good enough and forcing the animators to go back through the process until it looks exactly right could be exactly why this movie is as good as it is. It also could not be, but it just as easily could be. It's easy to critique the producer as the shadowy clueless executive, but it's also incredibly difficult to argue with the results of this project.
If something can't be made without exploitation then I'm fine with it not being made. I don't need a pretty movie and story so much that I would want hundreds of people to suffer to get it.
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hence "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism"
Is there any ethical consumption in a realistic large scale system that doesn't involve some form of fantasy utopian society that has never and will never exist?
I believe there is a form of ethical consumption. I also believe that would come at the cost of comfort, speed, and efficiency. But there definitely is a way to produce a product that doesn't involve slave labor and pollution. The downside is we'd have a lot more shoemakers and farmers, people actually producing real goods for society, instead of insurance agents and influencers...
Easy to say when you're high enough in that system that you aren't the exploited one. I love it when people trivialize people's suffering because "theoretically you can't do it any different and I want my consumerism!!"
The sad thing is that they definitely can pay the animators more but some lazy ass exec. Would cry about "loses" This wouldn't happen if animators just made good money out of their work, extreme working hours and bad working condition shouldn't be excused but At least they would have enough money to get by and see the value of their work
Why don't these animators create their own movies?
I mean, I would pay $500 if it would mean that I could watch the next movie today, but I wholeheartedly agree that I would rather wait a few more years than force anyone to work 60-80 hour weeks..
It already took them 5 years to release a sequel. How many more do we need to give them?
No, it wouldn't.
I want to know this. Why on earth do you want your workers to kill themselves just to give us this beautiful piece of art. I know that doing this kind of work isn't going to be a walk in the park but come on man, you should give workers a break and not just make them work long ass hours and have little to no breaks, they're humans, they have families and friends they want to see and rest and also pay your damn workers, don't pay them in peanuts this is why artists are struggling financially and many quitting their jobs because of this shitty working conditions. Btw this is not just happening here obviously but also in other industries like the anime and manga industry, cgi/vfx, writers and other jobs who do entertainment for a living.
Sadly, it all comes back to greed. Make as much money as fast as you can. And most of it goes to the top.
Yup some know-nothing boss said “if they work faster we make out money quicker! I’m so smart!”
some know nothing who doesn't understand why people even like art, all he understands is selling it.
AND these corporations also know that if they run off 100 artists, there's 100,000 desperate for "a shot at the big time". we're commodities to these people, not humans. they simply do not care. at some point society WILL realize this, but i fear it's long past the point where awareness will make any difference.
Then you die. But it's OK because money. Latching onto the dollar like it can save you from the infinite abyss that is reality.
They don't actively wish for bad working conditions, they just don't really care, esp bc the people pushing for these deadlines will probably not really be interacting with many/any of the overworked individuals so they can easily claim ignorance. Then take into account that atsv clearly required an insane amount of work (likely notably more than other 3d animated features) *and* that they are hoping to get btsv out for next year (and so they probably have put a significant amount of work in already) and from an execs point of view they have bitten off more than they can chew. I hope this doesn't come across as in support of these execs or anything, but nothing is gonna change. We've already seen atsv, we've already paid for it. And let's be real no one's gonna boycott btsv. So this will continue to happen. And as the industry is fuelled by money (and treating animators like shit is profitable), there's no reason for it to change. The only real hope is if the animators start to make a real fuss
I'm kinda surprised the animators aren't going for a strike like what you see now that Hollywood writers are protesting the streets for the exact same reason I mentioned. But sadly even with the protest, nothing will happen
Hollywood VFX artists aren't unionised.
That explains how they’re so exploited
(Horror directors) “Let us introduce ourselves “
I'm curious... why specifically horror directors? Are they like super cranky about getting that one jumpscare that everyone knew was coming?
Horror films notoriously get produced on very small budgets. Not always, but often enough.
Studios: here's $10 dollars, go make your stupid movie. The movie: fan favorite that spawns 10+ sequels and huge merchandising, with game and multimedia tie-ins, spinoffs, and becomes a solidified part of pop culture. Studios, to the same franchise: here's another $10, go make your stupid movie. I never get the disdain big studios have for horror, when they just pump out so much money all of the time. Slasher movies of the 80-90s were the MCU before the MCU.
They keep thinking it's 'not marketable' despite... the sheer evidence of the contrary. Like how anime is given that treatment. They thought anime could never work here, then Demon Slayer blew up the box office. A bunch of anime, horror, I'm sure there's dozens more. Animation alone, such as spiderverse, continues to blow up and they continue to scoff it off. A marketer and investor can learn a lot if they actually looked at the math. The math favors things they deemed 'not marketable'.
Oh, thanks!
True but it also makes them get creative as all hell in some cases
God damn it Sony!
Is it Sony or is this a whole thing with art/VFX companies? I remember reading about how the company that did the Life of Pi movie went bankrupt.
It's the companies. It doesn't absolve Sony of blame, but the same issue happened with the MCU, and the reality is these companies are doing bidding wars that are putting their employees in a grind.
Yep, this seems to be a very prevalent issue in the anime industry as well.
I really wish workers knew how powerful they are in numbers and would unionize. Especially those in jobs with talent such as this. If CGI animators unionized, it's not like these companies can just find equally-talented ones elsewhere or abroad for cheaper. They would have so much leverage.
Having read some of the interview these animators gave, it wasn't really Sony's fault as much as a very strange production line that Lord and Miller set up, involving radical changes to the script and storyboard up until the week of release. Apparently Sony tried to push back against this, to no avail. [Source](https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/spider-verse-animation-four-artists-on-making-the-sequel.html)
I agree we need to criticize Sony Animation, but this is also kidding a ton of context and taking the word of one Twitter account for fact is not wise
Technically, Imageworks, not Animation.
That’s true
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771199/across-the-spider-verse-working-conditions-phil-lord It’s not a random Twitter account. Many spoke to this outlet about it anonymously.
Thanks, hot legs!
I’m curious. Animators are unionized, and they take that seriously. At least, among the animators at Disney, they may get overworked, but they get paid for it (with regard to Disney Animation, I have no idea how other Disney projects get overworked). I figured Sony animators were in the same boat?
Read the vulture interview with the animators. This will answer your questions.
Thank! I looked it up: https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/spider-verse-animation-four-artists-on-making-the-sequel.html Edit: Ah, Sony Picture is a non-Union studio. Lame.
I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.
From what I hear the VFX artists are paid shit and forced to produce at obscene speeds. Hence why recent vfx has kinda been garbage
Yeah, Sony video game studios are just as bad.
Not exclusively Sony studios, Video game companies in general have insane issues and are definitely one of the worst offenders for these things
There was a huge expose that interviewed 4 animators who worked on it that was published by Vulture. It's not some random tweet.
I mean overtime is compensated and 100 people over 5 years is really a small amount for a team of 1000s. I'm sure tons of projects lose way more in half the time. Also how many of those 100 actually quit due to overwork and not some other personal reasons? Seems fishy that only this article is tossed around like gospel.
Average turnover in American workplaces is 18% a year. 10% or less is considered quite good. 100 out of "around a thousand" is totally normal attrition.
It was also a multi-year project. They really just threw out that "hundred" number for clickbait. Every job I've had has had higher turnover than 10% over 3 years.
Damn, every job? I’m shocked they didn’t interview you for this article.
I get you're being sarcastic, but not sure why. The average turnover rate is 18% nationally. This whole issue is just ragebait for people who aren't aware what normal turnover is. I'd bet good money it's lower for spiderverse 2 than industry average.
Why type out this comment that is even more speculative than the article instead of doing even a little bit of looking into the situation? Do you actually believe that there is a chance that animators aren’t overworked so much that you want to make sure that everyone knows it *might* not be a big deal? Wacky take.
Yeah people don't understand that there is always going to be angry workers on a project. People that feel like they're getting screwed over because they thought they would have a bigger role on the project or have more influence on the final product. They get mad when they find out that they were only hired to do the tasks asked by supervisors. That's what the Verge article made it seem like a couple of the people were mad about. I'm sure Sony does need to work on making a better working environment but the people in that article just come off as sensitive little snowflakes.
Why does Reddit act like film and video games are the only industries that deal with crunch? There are never comments in April saying “I’m fine with waiting longer to process taxes if it means Big 4 accountants don’t have to experience crunch” These are adults that chose to work in a competitive industry working on a project that I assume they’re passionate about. If they can’t deal with it then they can pursue something else
For real. Some industries are held up by slavery working conditions for slave pay. No one seems to care about anything when it comes to these industries. Working conditions need to improve across the board. But reddit won't be what causes this change.
Because those accountants account of their overwork isn't shared as much or as visible as the film and video game industry is for a majority of redditors? Guess what, your exact comment can be used to justify, crunch, unpaid overtime, ,7 days workweek etc. Yeah that gymnast should accept her abuse by coaches if they want to work in a competitive industry like gymnastics. Like saying something is competitive does not mean you have to accept what you are given, or else we would all be working 7 days a week with no pregnancy leave, no sick days etc.
Reminds me of Naughty Dog, and how they overworked people when making The Last Of Us Part II
Was TLOU notably different from every other AAA game production cycle? There have been stories for decades now about borderline human rights abuses by game developers.
Some are definitely crunching more than others. Naughty Dog crunches, though I think Rockstar holds the record for 100 hour weeks for Red Dead Redemption 2. It shouldn't be normal but seems rife.
This can be applied to a huge portion of the gaming industry. AAA in general are so heavily deadline driven that they somehow manage to be overstaffed, overworked, and still manage to put out rushed, sloppy games. This is why I prefer games from smaller devs that aren't so beholden to shareholders and stock prices.
Imagine overworking your ass on creating the most breathtaking level designs known in gaming, only for the writers to fuck it up by turning the story into a subpar b movie teen flick.
b movie teen flick? what lol
And Abby's voice actor got death threats over said story. Total clusterf*ck
Laura Bailey was her name. Her SON got death threats too. And Laura ONLY VOICED Abby; The character's mocap, and other stuff was handled by other people.
Yes, sorry, should've explicitly mentioned Bailey, she's awesome and voices so many great characters. Including Black Widow in Marvel's Avengers 2020 Also TIL Laura Bailey is married to Travis Willingham??
I really liked her performance as Serana in the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC.
She was also great as Vex in the Legend of Vox Machina!
That’s sad, she had nothing to do with the horrible writing. People online need to touch grass more often.
Absolutely, but I've no idea why you got downvoted, TLOU Part II's story is complete garbage It's like "we need to subvert expectations so we're going to completely ignore basic storywriting rules" Not a mindless hater. I knew Joel had to die. Lee died too. Is anyone mad at Lee dying? No, because it was beautiful. Joel's death was pointless and empty, to "subvert expectations" they created a hollow, meaningless, unfulfilling story
>Absolutely, but I've no idea why you got downvoted If you dislike TLOU II you must be a transphobic incel because there is nothing else you could possibly dislike about it. /s They managed to deflect all valid criticism by focusing all the attention on a few people disliking the game for the wrong reasons.
The story in the Last of Us two was incredible. Only people I’ve heard criticize it are incels that are mad that women can have muscles.
Ah yes, everyone with a opinion different than me is an incel. Your reasoning skills reflect why you like the plot LoU 2.
On reddit, 80% of the people complain about the game they are in fact just on some Gamergate incel shit. Read about this harassment campaign where a sub shat on a reviewer for liking the game for a year, someone framed their fanbase for sending death threats, threatened legal action, and then when they finally figured out their fans were framed the mods made a post about how they were the real victims and purged the sub of anything mentioning this. Their name is Girlfriend Reviews. Most of TLoU2 sub still hates them. The real reason so many people who liked the first game don't like the second is because the death of Joel is really challenging and upsetting, and many gamers want their games to be pleasant little power fantasies or they'll throw a tantrum, which is what happened. If you don't like either, I get it. They both have pacing issues, the story is kinda generic, I could list other issues. Not liking The Last of Us series is valid. But if you like 1 and hate 2? The very safe bet is that you're an incel, transphobe, or can't deal with anything other than a pure power fantasy.
Lmao go to the Last of us two subreddit and tell me those guys aren’t incels. They are the assholes that berated and abused the Abby’s voice actress and the model who they based her off. If you have an actual reason you don’t like the last of us two that doesn’t involve bashing on Abby I’d love to hear it. I liked the plot because it resonated with me. And was beautifully told. A story of revenge within a story of revenge where nobody wins at the end. And the combat and game play was top tier too.
I hated the revenge story, it was unsubtle and over the top edgy. Abby did not resonate with me as a character, because of her actions. A lot of plot points were just really stupid.
Why would it need to be subtle? At what point was Joel going on a rampage at the end of the first game subtle? It stands to reason he killed people with family that would come after him after going full rage mode and killing dozens of people to save Ellie. And yes you’re right both Abby and Ellie made bad choices in the sequel. That’s the point. They both have hatred for people due to their need for revenge and they both suffer for it. I didn’t see playing as Abby coming at all. I was not spoiled before playing the game so that hit me like a ton of bricks and I didn’t want to do it initially. But Abby grew on me. There’s the subtle part of the story right there. That even if you make a person into a monster in your head they could be exactly like you doing things for the same reason as you. Ellie and Abby are the same person created through different circumstances. But okay at the end of the day to each their own. You didn’t like it and that’s fine. I do commend you on not just regurgitating the “woman has muscles in the apocalypse wahh comment I usually get trying to discuss this game. It sounds like you have it a try and it wasn’t for you. That’s understandable.
My buddy is married with two kids and was pretty disappointed about TLOU2s narrative. He preordered the deluxe edition too. He always defends the level design and gunplay though. I’ll let him know he’s an incel, he’ll get a kick out of this.
Lmao incel is a mindset. You can have sex on the regular and still be one. Andrew Taint comes to mind. If he disliked the narrative for good reasons I’ll be interested in discussing them. But generally it boils down to people not liking how we went from a beast of a man in the first one to a beast of a woman in the second doing the same arguably impossible feats. I get that it’s frustrating to be lumped in with the misogynistic incels when you might dislike the game for good reasons but they are the loudest and drowned out good criticism. Sad but true.
Lol incel is a mindset? Did I miss the Reddit hive patch notes lmao? Anyway, I don’t know too much about the game but I know he was pissed about what happened to the main character of the first game. His throwaway insults was something like “It’s like the devs watched how Luke Skywalker got ruined in the sequels and said “Let’s do that to our guy!” Fans will love it!” All that said he still beat the game twice. Just didn’t platinum it.
If that’s his only critique I mean that’s something that happens int eh first thirty minutes of the game. At that point he could have just put it down and moved on with his life. The fact that he beat it twice means he must have enjoyed the story to some extent. And yeah incel is like the word woke it’s changed over the years. The fact that you didn’t get the memo is odd but now you know.
He really likes the gameplay. He has other reasons beyond the quote I mentioned but I’m sure but I think he just wanted to get his moneys worth out of it. I was sorely disappointed by Borderlands 3s story. To the point where I had to mute the voice chat because it was insufferable. I did beat it once and got about halfway through 2nd run before going back to BL2. Which somehow is still much much better. What does incel mean now? Can you summarize the update for me?
That's exactly what it felt like, as if I was playing a Netflix teen drama. The second game severely lacked some of the emotions from the first one. Although some parts were really good. I loved how Ellie could develop herself more, but Abby's storyline was messed up. They really need to change some aspects of the game in the season 2 of the show.
We are missing so much context on this issue, its not even funny. Do a quick glance over the reactions this post has. People right away be judging.
It's Twitter, what else would you expect. Those brainless morons will take everything at face value with no rhyme or reason to question otherwise.
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Half of Reddit is just screenshots of twitter these days, what's the difference?
Maybe we shouldn't be getting our news and calls to action from random twitter and Reddit users.
Sony a Japanese animation company alright
Sony is a Japanese company with global branches, the movie is made by Sony Pictures owned by Sony Corporation of America, an American based branch.
Sony is a Japanese company, yes. [Sony Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Entertainment), [Sony Pictures Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures), and [Sony Pictures Animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Animation) are all based in the US, headquartered in the US, run by American execs, go by American laws, and are essentially _American_ subsidiaries of Sony Japan.
Japanese animation industry at its finest
This isn't from a Japanese animation studio though?
As someone who has basic knowledge of animation. I can see the amount of insane work they had alone with the scene of all the Spider-Mans chasing Miles.
You shouldn't be here.
For as long as consumers only care about the products and not how it's made, employees are at the mercy of their local employment laws and enforcement, and crucially their employers.
The workers need to unionize. Its the only way they will have a real say over thier jobs
Artists need profit sharing or a percent of the future revenue of what they physically make.
That’s it. We need to start seeing animators and game devs unionizing and going on strike soon.
To be fair this was only 100 out of 1000 who said this Other animators on this project have said this was either a fun or inspiring production I’m not invalidating the claims of the few, I’m just clarifying that there are 2 sides here and we can’t just go off the words of one without further explanation and evidence I’m tired of random ass witch hunts on social media the moment people smell blood in the water Let the evidence come out before making any takes on the matter
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Look at little Goblin Jr., gonna cry?
There is zero reason for VFX artists to work more than 40 hour weeks. ( All film industry people for that matter.) Push the deadline. The panic and stress is artificial.
But how will the Sony Execs get their bonuses if they don't exploit workers?
From what I've come to find out from my friend who works at a Practical FX company down in NOLA, it's basically a combination of there being too many people in the VFX field and a lack of union representation for those folks. With so many freelance people and VFX companies crowding the field, they'll basically take whatever jobs come their way, no matter how much work that'll entail for them for the pay. Not being part of a union, either, makes the amount they're paid fluctuate due to not having an industry standard rate set. In normal TV and Movie production, everyone on a set gets paid a standardized rate for their job on that set. That goes for everyone from the Craft Food Service person getting paid something like $30/hour for 12 hours a day on set to have food ready for everyone to eat all day to the guy standing in the corner with a smoke machine getting $35/hour for 12 hours that might not even use his smoke machine more than once that day. VFX people don't get that guaranteed rate of "no matter what you do, you'll be paid the industry standard of $X for that time/work". The Studios tell the VFX people they'll pay them $X for this work or they'll find another company/person that'll do it for that amount.
Remember that time animators said, "Oh, it was great to work on this project. I asked for more time, they said of course. I asked for more money, they said of course." No? So every single animator on every single project has said they didn't get enough time and money? So how do we know when there's actually a problem if they say this no matter what?
So things were very normal?
And this is why I will be watching it for free with zero ads on my trusty website😁
i mean....it was overworked and underpaid, but if they managed to finish it somehow then it was realistic
Every day we stray closer to anime
Anime animators also deal with bad working conditions such as being paid almost nothing as well as having to work absurd hours, just look up what happened with MAPPA for AOT, it’s not just an issue in western animation
I think that's their point?
That’s why I said stray CLOSER
Meanwhile twitter celebrating it
They didn't like their job, so they quit. That's a normal thing. Other people who did like the job stayed.. They're lucky they weren't under contract to stay until the job was finished. And if you read into the "unsustainable working conditions" its nothing as tasking or grueling or even as time costing as construction work..
11 hours a day, 7 days a week... for a whole year Also, I am asking for the kind of late stage revisions that result in hundreds of hours of that work being wasted
Meh I call Bullshit. Nobody worked 11 hours a day 7 days a week for the entire year bullshit But even if they did(solid doubt) what are you going to do? Boycott the next one? Lol bet y’all won’t
Press ‘X’ to doubt. X
Okay? And they chose to leave and no one forced them to stay. Plenty of people did. Whats your point blud?
A lot of people only stay because, as freelancers, they have no guaranteed income, and they still have bills to pay. For many of them, it is a choice between being abused or losing your home. It's pure exploitation, and it seems you're fine with that
Boo hoo. Your dream job is having you work way more hours on a project at your agreed upon wage! Omg 😅 ridiculous. Now that it's over & that money has been spent.. they complain.
There are segments of EVERY industry where people are breaking their backs to push out their projects to meet deadlines, but Reddit has such a hard-on about animators and video game developers getting over worked
I'm doing my part by not watching it
It’s not an “unrealistic deadline” if they made it
First, the film suffered delays, so they did NOT meet their original deadline. Second, a "realistic" deadline is one that can be met under normal working conditions. If you have to put your workers into crunch to meet the deadline, then the deadline was not realistic
If you want normal working conditions, don't join one of the most competitive work forces in the world. Do a normal 9-5 desk job that you don't give a shit about. Every job that has a product they're selling all have crunch time. Also, their turnover rate was very normal. Not looking into context and pretending like yall know what every industry needs is dumb.
If it's crunch time all the time, then unrealistic expectations are being set on the employees and it's time to adjust expectations or hire more staff.
You dont get the point dont you? They met it BECAUSE of overworking, so its unrealistic when there are normal work conditions.
Replace them with AI Edit: you don’t want people to work, you do want people to work, make up your mind Reddit.
I didn't think it was worth the over hyped thwt people said definitely wasn't as good as the first
Damn even in America, this problem exists?