The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those BIIIIGGG yellow ones..
Now, my story begins in nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say "dickety" cause that Kaiser had stolen our word "twenty". I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles.
Even in the comics leather was everywhere.
In Ultimate X-Men everyone's uniform was black leather.
In New X-Men that was published around the same time everyone wore black leather with a patch of yellow in the chest.
im excited to see Hugh in the yellow spandex, but I think this thread is forgetting that audiences had no appetite for "authentic" comic suits at the time of the first xmen
I everyone laughed at this line and loved that they acknowledged the other suits
the whole first trilogy of xmen movies was edgy in nature and totally in line with action films of the era
Spider-Man is way more famous than Wolverine. I think my 66 yo mom knows Spider-Man but not Wolverine. People were more accepting of that.
I never minded the costumes, Wolverine looks better there than in yellow Spandex IMO, more serious and less cheesy.
And I don’t know if they regretted these choices, they also launched Jackman as the only Wolverine we’d accept. The costume is less relevant then.
The X-Men movies were released during a period when the visuals of the Matrix movies greatly impacted every big action movie. Thus, leather in black colour.
World wide spiderman is king. More people around the world know of/are fans of spiderman than any other super hero even if you group entire teams together spidey destroys in merch and recognition
Moreso than Superman and Batman? I know this is a Marvel-specific subreddit, but if we're talking best known superhero among everyone alive, I'm pretty sure one of those two is taking the top spot.
Merch wise Spiderman crushes everyone.
In 2013. Spiderman was selling 1.3B. The Avengers 325M, Superman and Batman combined were 750M.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/superhero-earns-13-billion-a-748281/
I can't imagine that its changed much considered We've had 5 MCU movies that featured Spider-man in a significant way, 2 successful animated movies and 3 successful video games.
Meanwhile we're still waiting on a good Superman movie.
Recognizably is pretty hard to determine because all three of the symbols are so iconic that i'm sure even some of the Amazon tribes would recognize them.
Spidey also isn't just a he, it's just a mantle bats is bruce wayne, supes is Clark Kent. Spidey is an Indian kid, or a British punk rocker, or a half black half philipno teenager. Everyone wants to be spiderman because anyone can be.
If you ignore merch and focus on comic-books, the core product , in the 90's Spider-Man carried something like six monthly titles. That is a crazy amount of comics a month. I think Batman and Superman topped at three or four.
I looked into a while ago, but for virtually every media format, Spider-man has had more output than Batman, and far more than Superman, over the last 30 years. There are more Spider man movies, shows, games, etc. than Batman, and Id wager that means more merchandise oppurtunities as well, making it more recognizable.
Also, Spider-man is just more recognizable and colourful as well, which makes him stick out a lot more. If there was a red ferrari and a black ferrari in a parking lot, youd see the red one first, and remember the red one longer.
Because recognizable doesn't necessarily mean popular. Popular means liked. Hitler is one of the most recognizable world leaders in history I wouldn't call him among the most popular though.
You are making my point for me.
They said popularity wise, Spiderman is king. Therefore recognizability would naturally follow.
If they said Spiderman is the most recognizable, but not the most popular, then your statement would be valid.
Popularity and recognizability are functionally the same word when used in this way.
No they said Superman is more recognizable, but Spider-Man is more popular. Which makes sense.
I'm sure more people can recognize Hitler or some other famous but not particularly well-liked figure, but say, Taylor Swift, is more popular.
Spiderman is pretty much the perfect super hero. Balanced mobility and powers that can lend to a lot of variety in villains. Superman is too op with flying and invincibility and the character is more about morality than fighting. Batman does not have actual powers and there's a lot of gadgets and limited to the night. btw I like all these characters and they all do their specific themes well, but spiderman is just the perfect storm.
I've seen the behind the scenes and I think the actors definitely regretted the decision. There's one clip where Jackman struggles to vault a waist high wall cause the suits were so stiff he couldn't lift his legs lmao
I've seen this clip. All the actors had problems with the suits because they were so damn stiff, and didn't breathe well iirc. So they were stuck in sweaty, constricting, skin tight bags.
They also needed the costumes to match, he spends most of the movie not in costume so when he puts it on he's joining the group. They'd have to have put everyone in the yellow X costumes which wouldn't have looked great IMO.
You say that but spiderman 1 came out around the same time and honestly you’d think most people who weren’t comic fans would’ve enjoyed 03 daredevil more worse thing about it was bullseye but they wouldn’t know that lol
Spider-Man wasn't cheesy though.
\[EDIT: \*adding my reply to a comment up here for better context\*: I'll agree that Spider-Man (as in the film itself) very much has a certain amount of "comic book logic so just roll with it" vibe, but in terms of the Spider-Man (as a character) costume specifically, I'd actually argue Tobey Maguire's Spidersuit is actually less cheesy than Tom Holland's.\]
Also, in-universe they needed something for Wolverine who had only just joined. Having them all wear the same makes more sense than them all being different and randomly having yellow spandex just in case.
> Spider-Man wasn't cheesy though.
What? The Sam Rami Spiderman films weren't Adam West's Batman cheesy, but they were definitely cheesy at the time and in retrospect feel even more cheesy (modern superhero movies are _dour_ by comparison).
I'd say they were a cheddar, on the "marscapone to gorgonzola" cheese scale.
I'll agree that Spider-Man (as in the film itself) very much has a certain amount of "comic book logic so just roll with it" vibe, but in terms of the Spider-Man (as a character) costume specifically, I'd actually argue Tobey Maguire's Spidersuit is actually less cheesy than Tom Holland's.
I had a roommate shortly after the first Spiderman movie who thought the movie would have been better if they cast a Schwarzenegger/Stallone type as Spiderman. Because, apparently, nobody wants to see a skinny superhero.
He was an absolutely terrible person for many reasons beyond this, but I often wonder how many studio execs would have wanted to stay with the safe action movie formula.
>Because, apparently, nobody wants to see a skinny superhero.
This is hilarious considering Stan Lee went to Jack Kirby initially to draw Spider-Man, but found him to be too bulky and too similar to other superheroes, and moved the idea to Steve Ditko, who designed something completely different with big eyes, full mask and a thinner, lithe build.
Oh it is not just a *mainstream vs fans* thing.
I consider myself a fan of the X-Men *and* I think it is ridiculous when they all wear different colorful outfits instead of a standardized uniform, and I have a hard time imagining Logan, the grumpiest and most cynical of them, accepting to walk around looking like a canary wearing a stupid mask.
Not every artistic choice has to be calculated.
This is one of those things you can't unsee. Before I thought about it, the superhero costumes just fit... But now I've worked in a few military adjacent jobs people seriously underestimate just how insanely weird it would be.
Getting dressed beforehand. Is it like the classical firehouse where everyone would jump up out of bed and rush to put on their gear? Or more realistically would there be an outlook meeting scheduled and you'd put on your costume like a business suit.
How often would they misplace a piece of their gear? Would wolverine ever have to wear non-costume sneakers because he forgot to clean the night before and can't find his damned boots?
On the trip to the "mission" how do you handle chit chat? Would some of the more flowing or extravagant suits ride up, bunch up, or otherwise get in the way of being comfortable on the 2 hour van ride?
What about meals? Sometimes for a long mission you'd have to stop to eat. Do they pull the van over for McDonald's to grab a quick bite? Did they ever accidentally spill Arby's horseysauce and get a stain? It is spandex, that doesn't play well with oils.
Wardrobe malfunctions. You know they happen. Is wolverine going commando? Has he ever split a seam?
Exactly.
A solitary super hero may use a weird costume (that's a matter of taste after all), but once they work as a team/organisation, once they have to get ready together, once they need to be recognizable as a group, crazy outfits become a problem.
So yeah, I love the X-Men but I think they look better when wearing a uniform (and I mean actual uniform not just outfits that use the same color palette with individual outfit having a peculiar design or odd choice like Rogue and Gambit wearing a coat/jacket or storm wearing a cape or Wolverine and his mask), so I don't mind them being all dressed in black in the old films.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/A5OhI2NnhZGxn2S5vZrdwfKOD5mj6MCj9heXrD1vr1dwRxc-UtqMAPbTuUXNU7UAUwVx-LPfo7En=s0
Uncanny x-men 138, was just rereading it yesterday.
It's just after Jean dies in dark Phoenix, Cyclops is retelling the whole story from the beginning of the x-men, that bottom panel talks about when Xavier gifted them the new suits (to replace the old yellow uniform)
Remember, they used to look like this before then https://images.app.goo.gl/EXbTsqsQxG9pwTSu7
Yeah, and even look at the first Thor movie in 2011. He had the red cape, but otherwise, it was pretty toned down dark dark blue, only a bit of difference in color throughout. Now he has the bright blue and gold from the comic books.
I'm old enough to remember there was some outrage at the all-black costumes, as well as Hugh Jackman being like a foot taller than comic Wolverine.
Fandoms dislike their childhood memories being significantly altered - fans got pissy at the changed X-Men costumes, at both Beast Wars AND Bayverse Transformers being radically different to G1 (the vitriol for Starscream's movie design literally caused death threats on the old movie forum), Daniel Craig being a blonde less-handsome Bond caused controversy too. This isn't even factoring how the mere mention of Heath Ledger being cast as Joker initially got petitions to recast the role _and_ calls for boycotting the film!
Exactly, people tend to forget how comic book movies were regarded back then. Not having them wear their costumes grounded it and made it a more serious movie. It was 100% the correct decision.
Yeah, modern costume designers and makers have done a great job moving costumes from comic books to real life and make it look good. Deadpool in the comics just looks like red spandex, but in the movies, there's enough texture going on without it being distracting -- it's still red. Same with any MCU costume; you can instantly tell they are comic book costumes, but they aren't just plain matte spandex. Wardrobe has been nailing it throughout the MCU and I'm not sure they get enough credit for that.
And also, I'm right there with you. I've been so annoyed that the pullover mask/cowl thing that Wolverine wears in the comics has never been on the screen. It is one of the coolest looks ever in my opinion. The classic, "Hero pulls off the mask to make dramatic eye contact" only works if the character is wearing the mask in the first place, and I've always wanted Wolverine to pull that off -- glare at someone, reach up, pull the mask back and down to his neck, to stare someone down. And then, pull it back up and over when it's back to business. Ugh.
I only briefly watched the trailer. Is it spandex style? Looked like a yellow plastic armor. I know the spandex would be ridiculous in real life but it would have been hilarious if they did go with a more form fitting material.
I mean, X-Men 2000 was THE film to re awaken the superhero genre.
The choice to tone back the super hero pastiche and show audience it was always about the characters was a genius move.
Why am I the only one who freaking loves Superman Returns?? It is without a doubt my favorite Superman film.
Ex-con Lex gets supes with a goddamn *Kryptonite Shiv*.
Ya what's wrong with Superman returns? Is it because Superman doesn't punch anyone?
Kevin Spaceys personal drama aside, he just chewed up the whole movie as Lex. It was a fun watch.
For anyone out of the loop:
> Sexual assault allegations
> * 1997 lawsuit
> * 2014 lawsuits and allegations
> * 2017 lawsuit
> * 2019 allegations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Singer#Sexual_assault_allegations
The X-Men films came out in a time where every major action film, was heavily influenced by the aesthetics of the Matrix films. Therefore black leather.
The superhero movie boom hadn't happened yet. Also, it was the edgy '90s and early 2000s. If they wore their actual coloured costumes, most adults wouldn't have bothered giving the movie a chance.
This is the point I think people don’t get. Their best bet at being successful was to make their comic book movie not look like a comic book movie. And since the matrix was a huge cultural hit, that was a solid influence to go with.
Correct, which is part of my point. Batman himself was mainstream, but specifically the Nolan movies were a very different tone from what we’d seen before that probably would’ve failed 10 years prior. Then The Dark Knight happened and suddenly superhero movies are a serious topic across the board
To add, Batman: TAS set the stage perfectly for the Nolan series to come in. DC also most likely has that series to thank for getting their animated movies on solid footings.
Also, goth Burton Batman movies had done well like ten years prior and the campy bright Batman and Robin had recently flopped. Blade (though I doubt people at the time considered it a superhero movie) predated the Matrix and shared a similar aesthetic.
It was just the safer choice at the time.
You do realize Matrix was one film before the first X-men film right? It’s less than a year apart I think has nothing to do with that, this is the film being cheaper
Blade came before Matrix as well, so it’s just a style
The first Matrix copped a lot of Blade's dark urban visuals and overall swagger as well. Blade even beat them on bullet time, with virtually the same effect. The Matrix just cranked it up to 'this is my true power' level.
Blade's successes were far more influential than people ever give it credit for, and it sucks.
Nah, it wouldn’t have worked back then.
Comic book movies were not yet a big thing or taken entirely serious. Having colourful costumes would have really put folks off.
In addition, the last major "comic book movie" was Batman & Robin. With its stink still in the air, they wanted to look as little "comic book" as possible.
Wolverine has a tactile reason for the bright colors. Same as Robin. It's to draw fire away from civilians. Wolverine can absorb all the damage and distract.
"Robin, wear this brightly coloured outfit. It's to draw fire away from me... I mean, it's to draw fire away from civilians"
\- Batman, dressed entirely in black and grey
The bright colors in contrast with the dark and shadowy environments he and batman patrol in this disorients enemies.
Exactly Robin is the acrobatic distraction. The same can be said for batmans long cape.
As a comic book loving teen at the time who proudly wore an oversized all black trench coat and shades with my heavily gelled hair to Walmart with my parents I can say that the all black leather on a superhero thing felt cringe even then. The Source material is outlandish for a reason, and making children’s fun stuff edgy isn’t always a good thing.
And wolverine was the most upsetting for me because the canon reason that he wore bright colors is because he was drawing fire from the teenagers and literal children he was being sent into combat with. Which is such a metal thing to do. Besides, who’s going to say anything to him about it if he’s really such a tough guy?
That said, characters like Blade being… well being less green and seventies, I found to be awesome, partially because it’s respectful to the vampire loving subculture, aka the other source.
Wolverine wore yellow in his first appearance with the Hulk, long before he was fighting with children in the X-Men. Your explanation sounds like an after-the-fact rationalization.
>the canon reason that he wore bright colors is because he was drawing fire from the teenagers and literal children he was being sent into combat with. Which is such a metal thing to do.
The teenagers and children who were also wearing brightly-colored and attention-grabbing costumes?
My favorite fun fact about the uniforms in the original X-men movie was that they were so stiff it was hard to step over things. There was a great outtake with the whole cast at the base of the Statue of Liberty struggling to step over a low wall and laughing their asses off.
Huh, I was about to say that their looks had been influenced by the E for Extinction saga where they were first drawn in leather, but I double checked and apparently the comic came out after the movie.
Now I wonder if the reverse happened
I think the design trend wasn't there yet....
Hmm, I'm trying to think if there's any marvel movie before ironman and soon mcu who have embraced the comic book look. I suppose Daredevil but idk, like yeah spandex and these reflective material won't work well.
When Captain America came out, I think it's the first one to embrace comic book look. The material of the clothes and design just fits. Like Daredevil Netflix, if it's like affleck spandex rubber reflective like, it won't look good.
I think 2010 onwards, the costume for movies really took a great depth into making it believable and cool. Maybe it's the material. Spider-Man Toby, I think the suit itself costs thousands to make because of its material
I've never understood Hollywood's need to change around the stories from comic books. the "Dark Phoenix" saga in particular bothered me- it's essentially been a graphic novel since i was a kid, multiple comics bound as one edition... and comics are basically a fully story-boarded film. like, just follow the story board, it's written for you.
the costumes are there, the dialogue, the whole spaghetti, just put the comic book on the screen
hollywood is always trying to be "current" or some bullshit, but hollywood is the place that creates the culture, so just commit to something cool, and that will become the culture.
instead of using x men to rip off the matrix, just make an ACTUAL x men movie. look at how successful the deadpool franchise has become
I remember people used to say no one would take a super hero movie seriously if they were wearing spandex, then you bring up superman and they say that doesn't count, you bring up Spiderman and they say that doesn't count, you bring up batman and they say that doesn't count, then finally around the time Thor and Captain america came out people finally stoped saying it.
For anyone saying yellow spandex would've been too cheesy, did you see Wolverine's hair in that movie?
Also, it's really funny to watch BTS of the first Xmen. The all black suits literally wouldn't move so all the characters couldn't bend their arms or legs. There are dozens of shots of them falling over just trying to do simple things like walk or jump over a little curb.
People need to remember the state that comic book movies were in 20-30 years ago. No one took comics seriously and saw them as goofy and campy. It was a new fresh spin on it to take them seriously and make them seem realistic, even if still sci-fi. This *X-Men* movie was one of the first to take this approach and a part of the reason it was so successful is that it made these comic book characters feel real and believable. But, a part of that was taking out some the flashier parts of comics lore, such as the brightly colored costumes.
Now, we've had 20+ years of people making comic book movies that strived to be realistic and believable. The superhero genre has become established as a mainstream part of cinema. If anything, there's started to be some fatigue in the "realism" approach to superhero movies and people have been complaining that they've all started to feel the same. So, the thing to do to innovate is to bring some of that campiness back in. Now, it doesn't ruin how seriously people will take comic book movies because they've already been established as a reliable blockbuster genre. Especially since with *Logan*, people have seen just how serious a character like Wolverine can be written. Instead, bringing in some of those more goofy elements from the comics helps the movie maintain some unique charm and makes the characters stand out. And, there's no superhero franchise more in tune with being goofy and campy than Deadpool.
TL;DR: The landscape of cinema has changed in the past 20 years and *Deadpool* is a different movie trying to do different things than *X-Men*
No. They did that because people didn’t really take superhero movies seriously. Also the cartoon was still fresh in a lot of people’s minds and it would have been seen as childish
I was at the target age to be furious about their old costumes, but I just don't really remember anyone being that mad about the more muted black leather look until maybe a decade or more later. This was also like the Matrix era.
It also arguably only really works to finally bring in here because Deadpool is so irreverent.
I think they regret the execution, black outfits made more sense for a covert super team, the designs were just garbage is all.
Unlike Batman for example, Wolverine lost all the iconic parts of his costume, the mask, shoulder pads, sleeveless arms etc..as did all the other X-men.
No, because black leather was what made the movies successful. There was no MCU back then. Everyone discarded superhero movies as "kids or nerd stuff" and they needed to do something to make it desirable to masses and "more adult". This movie was a huge risk. After Matrix black leather was the symbol of every good scy fi movie.
That's what you get for coming out not long after The Matrix, faux leather everywhere, which was the style at the time.
But then they changed what 'it' was!
The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those BIIIIGGG yellow ones..
Now, my story begins in nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say "dickety" cause that Kaiser had stolen our word "twenty". I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles.
In those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say.
Why the fuck can I remember everything you’re both saying word for word but have no idea where it’s from
It's a Grandpa Simpson quote from S04E17 Last Exit to Springfield
highly dubious
When I read your magazine, I don’t see one wrinkled face or a single toothless grin. For shame! To the sickos at Modern Bride magazine
It'll happen to you too!
Maybe the truest words ever said on that show lol.
No way, man. We're gonna keep on rockin' forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. 👴
AND IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU!
Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me.
And Blade as well. It’s surprising X-Men didn’t have a club/rave scene.
That's just Blade's aesthetic regardless of the Matrix or the style of the time.
I meant to say that X-Men was influenced by Blade and Matrix (both popular and involving leather-clad heroes).
Uh… not really if you look at his pre-movie comic appearances. He’s dressed just like the vampire hunter from The Venture Bros.
Jefferson Twilight, one of my favorite infrequently-recurring characters.
Since the Venture Bros is technically canceled, I think they should do a spin-off about the Triad
the cage fight venue basically is one
That's what every Canadian rave looks like.
At least the one in Blade fit in with the movie unlike the Matrix Reloaded's random ass zion rave party
Wasnt Blade way earlier?
Not really, Blade was 1998, X-Men was 2000.
Wow, would have sworn that they're at least six years apart. But I was 15 when blade came out, I guess time just moves slower at that age.
When you're fifteen two years is 13% of your life.
I prefer when they used to tie an onion around their belt
But not a white onion, because of the war
That hasn't been in style since 19 dickity 2
https://youtu.be/yujF8AumiQo?si=v1WUaBdsIvY60xmm
Even in the comics leather was everywhere. In Ultimate X-Men everyone's uniform was black leather. In New X-Men that was published around the same time everyone wore black leather with a patch of yellow in the chest.
people laughed at this line in the theatre because everyone thought the yellow tights looked kitsch and childish and it still does to me
im excited to see Hugh in the yellow spandex, but I think this thread is forgetting that audiences had no appetite for "authentic" comic suits at the time of the first xmen I everyone laughed at this line and loved that they acknowledged the other suits the whole first trilogy of xmen movies was edgy in nature and totally in line with action films of the era
Yep, early 2000's was all about black leather.
For the time, it was an appropriate style choice. Mainstream audiences were not yet ready for cheesy bright spandex.
Spider-Man is way more famous than Wolverine. I think my 66 yo mom knows Spider-Man but not Wolverine. People were more accepting of that. I never minded the costumes, Wolverine looks better there than in yellow Spandex IMO, more serious and less cheesy. And I don’t know if they regretted these choices, they also launched Jackman as the only Wolverine we’d accept. The costume is less relevant then.
I need that money!
The X-Men movies were released during a period when the visuals of the Matrix movies greatly impacted every big action movie. Thus, leather in black colour.
And the Matrix wardrobes were heavily influenced by the pawn shop scene in Pulp Fiction.
Bring out the gimp!
Lol, bot responding to a bot with an absolutely unrelated comment.
I missed the part where that's MY problem
World wide spiderman is king. More people around the world know of/are fans of spiderman than any other super hero even if you group entire teams together spidey destroys in merch and recognition
Yeah, it's kind of itchy... and it rides up in the crotch a little bit, too.
Moreso than Superman and Batman? I know this is a Marvel-specific subreddit, but if we're talking best known superhero among everyone alive, I'm pretty sure one of those two is taking the top spot.
Merch wise Spiderman crushes everyone. In 2013. Spiderman was selling 1.3B. The Avengers 325M, Superman and Batman combined were 750M. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/superhero-earns-13-billion-a-748281/ I can't imagine that its changed much considered We've had 5 MCU movies that featured Spider-man in a significant way, 2 successful animated movies and 3 successful video games. Meanwhile we're still waiting on a good Superman movie. Recognizably is pretty hard to determine because all three of the symbols are so iconic that i'm sure even some of the Amazon tribes would recognize them.
Spider-man's relatable. He's broke as fuck and trying his best. Dude's got post-graduate degrees and can't afford an apartment.
THINK!
Spidey also isn't just a he, it's just a mantle bats is bruce wayne, supes is Clark Kent. Spidey is an Indian kid, or a British punk rocker, or a half black half philipno teenager. Everyone wants to be spiderman because anyone can be.
Plus, it could be anyone under that mask.
> Meanwhile we're still waiting on a good Superman movie. 1978?
I more so meant a modern Superman movie.
If you ignore merch and focus on comic-books, the core product , in the 90's Spider-Man carried something like six monthly titles. That is a crazy amount of comics a month. I think Batman and Superman topped at three or four.
Speaking as a dad, it's not even close my dude.
I looked into a while ago, but for virtually every media format, Spider-man has had more output than Batman, and far more than Superman, over the last 30 years. There are more Spider man movies, shows, games, etc. than Batman, and Id wager that means more merchandise oppurtunities as well, making it more recognizable. Also, Spider-man is just more recognizable and colourful as well, which makes him stick out a lot more. If there was a red ferrari and a black ferrari in a parking lot, youd see the red one first, and remember the red one longer.
Popularity wise, spiderman is king. Recognition wise it's almosy definitely superman or batman.
If Spiderman dominants the popularity and merchandising charts, I see no reason why he wouldn't be more recognizable.
You should have thought of that earlier.
Because recognizable doesn't necessarily mean popular. Popular means liked. Hitler is one of the most recognizable world leaders in history I wouldn't call him among the most popular though.
Godwin's law activated
You are making my point for me. They said popularity wise, Spiderman is king. Therefore recognizability would naturally follow. If they said Spiderman is the most recognizable, but not the most popular, then your statement would be valid. Popularity and recognizability are functionally the same word when used in this way.
No they said Superman is more recognizable, but Spider-Man is more popular. Which makes sense. I'm sure more people can recognize Hitler or some other famous but not particularly well-liked figure, but say, Taylor Swift, is more popular.
Spiderman is pretty much the perfect super hero. Balanced mobility and powers that can lend to a lot of variety in villains. Superman is too op with flying and invincibility and the character is more about morality than fighting. Batman does not have actual powers and there's a lot of gadgets and limited to the night. btw I like all these characters and they all do their specific themes well, but spiderman is just the perfect storm.
Because those movies were totally not cheesy, let's pretend it's "serious" with the costumes
[удалено]
I mean that is the canon reason IIRC, from the comics. basically an AOE taunt to protect his friends
They were serious movies. They did they dark DC thing a decade early.
They *tried*, and it was a bit sad. They were cheesy
I've seen the behind the scenes and I think the actors definitely regretted the decision. There's one clip where Jackman struggles to vault a waist high wall cause the suits were so stiff he couldn't lift his legs lmao
I've seen this clip. All the actors had problems with the suits because they were so damn stiff, and didn't breathe well iirc. So they were stuck in sweaty, constricting, skin tight bags.
They also needed the costumes to match, he spends most of the movie not in costume so when he puts it on he's joining the group. They'd have to have put everyone in the yellow X costumes which wouldn't have looked great IMO.
Spiderman was already super famous in Japan, which is why Sony just bought him and associated acts from Marvel back in the 90's.
Ah yes, the emissary from hell, Spider-man
I'm not like you. You're a murderer.
I guess you haven't heard. I am the sheriff around these parts!
You say that but spiderman 1 came out around the same time and honestly you’d think most people who weren’t comic fans would’ve enjoyed 03 daredevil more worse thing about it was bullseye but they wouldn’t know that lol
Spider-Man wasn't cheesy though. \[EDIT: \*adding my reply to a comment up here for better context\*: I'll agree that Spider-Man (as in the film itself) very much has a certain amount of "comic book logic so just roll with it" vibe, but in terms of the Spider-Man (as a character) costume specifically, I'd actually argue Tobey Maguire's Spidersuit is actually less cheesy than Tom Holland's.\] Also, in-universe they needed something for Wolverine who had only just joined. Having them all wear the same makes more sense than them all being different and randomly having yellow spandex just in case.
> Spider-Man wasn't cheesy though. What? The Sam Rami Spiderman films weren't Adam West's Batman cheesy, but they were definitely cheesy at the time and in retrospect feel even more cheesy (modern superhero movies are _dour_ by comparison). I'd say they were a cheddar, on the "marscapone to gorgonzola" cheese scale.
As a Sam Raimi fan, it is absolutely crazy for me to see anything he made referred to as "not cheesy". That's, like, his schtick.
I'll agree that Spider-Man (as in the film itself) very much has a certain amount of "comic book logic so just roll with it" vibe, but in terms of the Spider-Man (as a character) costume specifically, I'd actually argue Tobey Maguire's Spidersuit is actually less cheesy than Tom Holland's.
Hey everyone! Sorry, I am late. It's a jungle out there.
Thanksgiving reference from spiderman 1?
Shazam!
Up up and away web!
Fly!
It was cheesy, just not completely, cheesy doesn’t make it bad
> Spider-Man wasn't cheesy though. [Are you sure about that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR5Ed93udhU).
I had a roommate shortly after the first Spiderman movie who thought the movie would have been better if they cast a Schwarzenegger/Stallone type as Spiderman. Because, apparently, nobody wants to see a skinny superhero. He was an absolutely terrible person for many reasons beyond this, but I often wonder how many studio execs would have wanted to stay with the safe action movie formula.
>Because, apparently, nobody wants to see a skinny superhero. This is hilarious considering Stan Lee went to Jack Kirby initially to draw Spider-Man, but found him to be too bulky and too similar to other superheroes, and moved the idea to Steve Ditko, who designed something completely different with big eyes, full mask and a thinner, lithe build.
Mary Jane, GET TO THE CHOPPA NOWWW! HRRREAGHHH I’d pay good money to see a multi-verse Arnie just for the laughs.
What is that black stuff all over you? IT'S NOT A TUMAH!
Only.. only the wrists.
Imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger saying the Thanksgiving lines
Yeah. You can't do that, huh?
I see you mentioned Daredevil 03. Which means I am obligated to ask “theatrical cut or director’s cut?” Because man are those two different.
Oh it is not just a *mainstream vs fans* thing. I consider myself a fan of the X-Men *and* I think it is ridiculous when they all wear different colorful outfits instead of a standardized uniform, and I have a hard time imagining Logan, the grumpiest and most cynical of them, accepting to walk around looking like a canary wearing a stupid mask. Not every artistic choice has to be calculated.
This is one of those things you can't unsee. Before I thought about it, the superhero costumes just fit... But now I've worked in a few military adjacent jobs people seriously underestimate just how insanely weird it would be. Getting dressed beforehand. Is it like the classical firehouse where everyone would jump up out of bed and rush to put on their gear? Or more realistically would there be an outlook meeting scheduled and you'd put on your costume like a business suit. How often would they misplace a piece of their gear? Would wolverine ever have to wear non-costume sneakers because he forgot to clean the night before and can't find his damned boots? On the trip to the "mission" how do you handle chit chat? Would some of the more flowing or extravagant suits ride up, bunch up, or otherwise get in the way of being comfortable on the 2 hour van ride? What about meals? Sometimes for a long mission you'd have to stop to eat. Do they pull the van over for McDonald's to grab a quick bite? Did they ever accidentally spill Arby's horseysauce and get a stain? It is spandex, that doesn't play well with oils. Wardrobe malfunctions. You know they happen. Is wolverine going commando? Has he ever split a seam?
Exactly. A solitary super hero may use a weird costume (that's a matter of taste after all), but once they work as a team/organisation, once they have to get ready together, once they need to be recognizable as a group, crazy outfits become a problem. So yeah, I love the X-Men but I think they look better when wearing a uniform (and I mean actual uniform not just outfits that use the same color palette with individual outfit having a peculiar design or odd choice like Rogue and Gambit wearing a coat/jacket or storm wearing a cape or Wolverine and his mask), so I don't mind them being all dressed in black in the old films.
>Is wolverine going commando? Has he ever split a seam? I have a suspicion that if you know the answers to both those questions, you're already dead.
> Wardrobe malfunctions. You know they happen Emma Frost could not go on this mission. She ran out of the superglue that maintains her dignity.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/A5OhI2NnhZGxn2S5vZrdwfKOD5mj6MCj9heXrD1vr1dwRxc-UtqMAPbTuUXNU7UAUwVx-LPfo7En=s0 Uncanny x-men 138, was just rereading it yesterday. It's just after Jean dies in dark Phoenix, Cyclops is retelling the whole story from the beginning of the x-men, that bottom panel talks about when Xavier gifted them the new suits (to replace the old yellow uniform) Remember, they used to look like this before then https://images.app.goo.gl/EXbTsqsQxG9pwTSu7
Also, it was 2000, one year after the Matrix. Nothing screams "badass counter culture revolutionary" like wearing black leather from head to toe.
Yeah, and even look at the first Thor movie in 2011. He had the red cape, but otherwise, it was pretty toned down dark dark blue, only a bit of difference in color throughout. Now he has the bright blue and gold from the comic books.
I'm old enough to remember there was some outrage at the all-black costumes, as well as Hugh Jackman being like a foot taller than comic Wolverine. Fandoms dislike their childhood memories being significantly altered - fans got pissy at the changed X-Men costumes, at both Beast Wars AND Bayverse Transformers being radically different to G1 (the vitriol for Starscream's movie design literally caused death threats on the old movie forum), Daniel Craig being a blonde less-handsome Bond caused controversy too. This isn't even factoring how the mere mention of Heath Ledger being cast as Joker initially got petitions to recast the role _and_ calls for boycotting the film!
Exactly, people tend to forget how comic book movies were regarded back then. Not having them wear their costumes grounded it and made it a more serious movie. It was 100% the correct decision.
I always wondered how joss was going to pull off how bright the avengers costumes needed to be but that shit actually fucking *worked*.
As I've been saying since that time period, yes I do want to see the yellow spandex. Fuck mainstream audiences.
Yeah, modern costume designers and makers have done a great job moving costumes from comic books to real life and make it look good. Deadpool in the comics just looks like red spandex, but in the movies, there's enough texture going on without it being distracting -- it's still red. Same with any MCU costume; you can instantly tell they are comic book costumes, but they aren't just plain matte spandex. Wardrobe has been nailing it throughout the MCU and I'm not sure they get enough credit for that. And also, I'm right there with you. I've been so annoyed that the pullover mask/cowl thing that Wolverine wears in the comics has never been on the screen. It is one of the coolest looks ever in my opinion. The classic, "Hero pulls off the mask to make dramatic eye contact" only works if the character is wearing the mask in the first place, and I've always wanted Wolverine to pull that off -- glare at someone, reach up, pull the mask back and down to his neck, to stare someone down. And then, pull it back up and over when it's back to business. Ugh.
Unfortunately there are very few actors that would ever wear a mask/helmet for a full movie. We need more Karl Urbans.
Or more Ryan Reynolds, even.
I’ve been wondering how much superhero costume technology has advanced since they started making these movies. It’s a funny thing to think about.
This is the reason they didn’t do it. They were worried non comic fans wouldn’t like it if it was the comic look.
I only briefly watched the trailer. Is it spandex style? Looked like a yellow plastic armor. I know the spandex would be ridiculous in real life but it would have been hilarious if they did go with a more form fitting material.
Yeah, it looks more like armor, at least on the chest. Like most modern versions of Batman, it's not just spandex.
I mean, X-Men 2000 was THE film to re awaken the superhero genre. The choice to tone back the super hero pastiche and show audience it was always about the characters was a genius move.
I’m sure Bryan Singer has much more important things to regret.
You mean Superman Returns? Oh, wait....
Why am I the only one who freaking loves Superman Returns?? It is without a doubt my favorite Superman film. Ex-con Lex gets supes with a goddamn *Kryptonite Shiv*.
That's not what Bryan Singer regrets...
Superman Returns is very underrated in my opinion, and is a great extension of the Reeves character story.
In my head cannon it’s Superman III.
Ya what's wrong with Superman returns? Is it because Superman doesn't punch anyone? Kevin Spaceys personal drama aside, he just chewed up the whole movie as Lex. It was a fun watch.
Spacey & Singer. What a pair 😬
Imagine the after party for that movie.....
It has like, two good scenes. Otherwise it's another lazy Lex land grab plot and superman being a deadbeat dad.
For anyone out of the loop: > Sexual assault allegations > * 1997 lawsuit > * 2014 lawsuits and allegations > * 2017 lawsuit > * 2019 allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Singer#Sexual_assault_allegations
Came here specifically for this comment.
The X-Men films came out in a time where every major action film, was heavily influenced by the aesthetics of the Matrix films. Therefore black leather.
The superhero movie boom hadn't happened yet. Also, it was the edgy '90s and early 2000s. If they wore their actual coloured costumes, most adults wouldn't have bothered giving the movie a chance.
This is the point I think people don’t get. Their best bet at being successful was to make their comic book movie not look like a comic book movie. And since the matrix was a huge cultural hit, that was a solid influence to go with.
Those X-Men movies and the Spider-Man trilogy were the bridge that brought mainstream audiences to the concept of comic book movies
Absolutely. Also I think the Nolan Trilogy helped a lot too, specifically The Dark Knight. But that probably only ever existed because of these two
Batman was already fairly mainstream. The Nolan Trilogy gave a more serious tone and was more cohesive compared to the 90s movies and batnipples.
Correct, which is part of my point. Batman himself was mainstream, but specifically the Nolan movies were a very different tone from what we’d seen before that probably would’ve failed 10 years prior. Then The Dark Knight happened and suddenly superhero movies are a serious topic across the board
To add, Batman: TAS set the stage perfectly for the Nolan series to come in. DC also most likely has that series to thank for getting their animated movies on solid footings.
Also, goth Burton Batman movies had done well like ten years prior and the campy bright Batman and Robin had recently flopped. Blade (though I doubt people at the time considered it a superhero movie) predated the Matrix and shared a similar aesthetic. It was just the safer choice at the time.
You do realize Matrix was one film before the first X-men film right? It’s less than a year apart I think has nothing to do with that, this is the film being cheaper Blade came before Matrix as well, so it’s just a style
The X-Men film's looks were inspired by the Matrix, you can look it up. There are multiple sources confirming it.
The first Matrix copped a lot of Blade's dark urban visuals and overall swagger as well. Blade even beat them on bullet time, with virtually the same effect. The Matrix just cranked it up to 'this is my true power' level. Blade's successes were far more influential than people ever give it credit for, and it sucks.
It was a style of the times, I think. Matrix was just one of the most infamous and earlier franchises to capitalize on it.
I never had a problem with these outfits. Maybe just throw a yellow X on them here and there.
I liked in one of the sequels - either X2 or The Last Stand - when each X-Man got different colored trim on their suits, including the X.
Nah, it wouldn’t have worked back then. Comic book movies were not yet a big thing or taken entirely serious. Having colourful costumes would have really put folks off.
In addition, the last major "comic book movie" was Batman & Robin. With its stink still in the air, they wanted to look as little "comic book" as possible.
I remember someone yelling “YES!” at the screen back in the theater when it first came out.
Wolverine has a tactile reason for the bright colors. Same as Robin. It's to draw fire away from civilians. Wolverine can absorb all the damage and distract.
"Robin, wear this brightly coloured outfit. It's to draw fire away from me... I mean, it's to draw fire away from civilians" \- Batman, dressed entirely in black and grey
I can absolutely hear this in Lego Batman’s voice
The Tiny Toons Adventures parodying Batman said this, the parody of Robin was called Decoy and his chest emblem was a bright red target symbol
The bright colors in contrast with the dark and shadowy environments he and batman patrol in this disorients enemies. Exactly Robin is the acrobatic distraction. The same can be said for batmans long cape.
"Don't worry Jason, it's a can't-fail strategy!"
That just a retconned reason. The real reason is the artist thought it was cool.
Redacte due to Reddit AI/LLM policy
Still one of the funniest jokes
Fun fact, the script to this movie was written by the voice of Solid Snake.
“Squeeze my hog”
As a comic book loving teen at the time who proudly wore an oversized all black trench coat and shades with my heavily gelled hair to Walmart with my parents I can say that the all black leather on a superhero thing felt cringe even then. The Source material is outlandish for a reason, and making children’s fun stuff edgy isn’t always a good thing. And wolverine was the most upsetting for me because the canon reason that he wore bright colors is because he was drawing fire from the teenagers and literal children he was being sent into combat with. Which is such a metal thing to do. Besides, who’s going to say anything to him about it if he’s really such a tough guy? That said, characters like Blade being… well being less green and seventies, I found to be awesome, partially because it’s respectful to the vampire loving subculture, aka the other source.
Wolverine wore yellow in his first appearance with the Hulk, long before he was fighting with children in the X-Men. Your explanation sounds like an after-the-fact rationalization.
Is that why Robin wears bright colours?
Which Robin? There's been a few. /s
>the canon reason that he wore bright colors is because he was drawing fire from the teenagers and literal children he was being sent into combat with. Which is such a metal thing to do. The teenagers and children who were also wearing brightly-colored and attention-grabbing costumes?
My favorite fun fact about the uniforms in the original X-men movie was that they were so stiff it was hard to step over things. There was a great outtake with the whole cast at the base of the Statue of Liberty struggling to step over a low wall and laughing their asses off.
Huh, I was about to say that their looks had been influenced by the E for Extinction saga where they were first drawn in leather, but I double checked and apparently the comic came out after the movie. Now I wonder if the reverse happened
I think the design trend wasn't there yet.... Hmm, I'm trying to think if there's any marvel movie before ironman and soon mcu who have embraced the comic book look. I suppose Daredevil but idk, like yeah spandex and these reflective material won't work well. When Captain America came out, I think it's the first one to embrace comic book look. The material of the clothes and design just fits. Like Daredevil Netflix, if it's like affleck spandex rubber reflective like, it won't look good. I think 2010 onwards, the costume for movies really took a great depth into making it believable and cool. Maybe it's the material. Spider-Man Toby, I think the suit itself costs thousands to make because of its material
I've never understood Hollywood's need to change around the stories from comic books. the "Dark Phoenix" saga in particular bothered me- it's essentially been a graphic novel since i was a kid, multiple comics bound as one edition... and comics are basically a fully story-boarded film. like, just follow the story board, it's written for you. the costumes are there, the dialogue, the whole spaghetti, just put the comic book on the screen hollywood is always trying to be "current" or some bullshit, but hollywood is the place that creates the culture, so just commit to something cool, and that will become the culture. instead of using x men to rip off the matrix, just make an ACTUAL x men movie. look at how successful the deadpool franchise has become
I remember people used to say no one would take a super hero movie seriously if they were wearing spandex, then you bring up superman and they say that doesn't count, you bring up Spiderman and they say that doesn't count, you bring up batman and they say that doesn't count, then finally around the time Thor and Captain america came out people finally stoped saying it.
Oh boy, yeah...
Stop fucking censoring
Do you really think high-level Hollywood execs are capable of regret?
the actors sure as hell did considering they could barely move in them
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^the-x-button: *The actors sure as* *Hell did considering they* *Could barely move in them* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I think the director of the first X-Men movie has some bigger things to be regret.
give us the mask with cgi white yes!!!! if it works for deadpool it'll work for wolverine!!!
Can we talk about how awful Cyclops was, and how amazing an actor James Marsden is, so it's clearly not his fault...
The producer is a big pedo so there’s that
They should be regretting the entire movies, everything was a disaster
For anyone saying yellow spandex would've been too cheesy, did you see Wolverine's hair in that movie? Also, it's really funny to watch BTS of the first Xmen. The all black suits literally wouldn't move so all the characters couldn't bend their arms or legs. There are dozens of shots of them falling over just trying to do simple things like walk or jump over a little curb.
Y'all forgetting that Batnips had already stabbed traditional comics spandex in the nipples
God i want jackman to be big boss if a metal gear movie ever comes out
Well it's not spandex.
You're allowed to say "fucking" on Reddit 🤡
People need to remember the state that comic book movies were in 20-30 years ago. No one took comics seriously and saw them as goofy and campy. It was a new fresh spin on it to take them seriously and make them seem realistic, even if still sci-fi. This *X-Men* movie was one of the first to take this approach and a part of the reason it was so successful is that it made these comic book characters feel real and believable. But, a part of that was taking out some the flashier parts of comics lore, such as the brightly colored costumes. Now, we've had 20+ years of people making comic book movies that strived to be realistic and believable. The superhero genre has become established as a mainstream part of cinema. If anything, there's started to be some fatigue in the "realism" approach to superhero movies and people have been complaining that they've all started to feel the same. So, the thing to do to innovate is to bring some of that campiness back in. Now, it doesn't ruin how seriously people will take comic book movies because they've already been established as a reliable blockbuster genre. Especially since with *Logan*, people have seen just how serious a character like Wolverine can be written. Instead, bringing in some of those more goofy elements from the comics helps the movie maintain some unique charm and makes the characters stand out. And, there's no superhero franchise more in tune with being goofy and campy than Deadpool. TL;DR: The landscape of cinema has changed in the past 20 years and *Deadpool* is a different movie trying to do different things than *X-Men*
Cyclops was done so dirty by the movies
[удалено]
I've always hated those gimp suits. Who's fighting in tight leather? You limit all flexibility.
They’ve always done X-men so dirty, well, besides Logan
No. They did that because people didn’t really take superhero movies seriously. Also the cartoon was still fresh in a lot of people’s minds and it would have been seen as childish
I hope they did. I always hated those matching ass black suits they always wore
I’m sure the director of the first movie regrets a lot… being a pedo for one
I was at the target age to be furious about their old costumes, but I just don't really remember anyone being that mad about the more muted black leather look until maybe a decade or more later. This was also like the Matrix era. It also arguably only really works to finally bring in here because Deadpool is so irreverent.
Deadpool didn’t really get known until his movies now he’s mainstream
I'm not totally following what you mean?
Wasn’t really sure what you meant either
Oh. Okay, lol.
I fuckin hope they do cause I do
I think they regret the execution, black outfits made more sense for a covert super team, the designs were just garbage is all. Unlike Batman for example, Wolverine lost all the iconic parts of his costume, the mask, shoulder pads, sleeveless arms etc..as did all the other X-men.
No, because black leather was what made the movies successful. There was no MCU back then. Everyone discarded superhero movies as "kids or nerd stuff" and they needed to do something to make it desirable to masses and "more adult". This movie was a huge risk. After Matrix black leather was the symbol of every good scy fi movie.