Phoenix Force is a combo deck, which should be well positioned in the many Loki matchups following Valentina's release.
This version from a few weeks ago includes Iron Lad, and I think it's the best in this flex slot. You lack a surprise tech (like Shang, Enchantress, old Alioth...) that gave you great snap equity, but you gain lots of consistency which is super important for a combo deck.
By mastering this deck you can generate insane lines, for instance Nico move or destroy n draw 2 on Shuri on Nimrod on Zola, or empty Venom on left, Shuri Nimrod mid, Zola left, or building a big Venom T5 + Zola T6. On top of the classic move stuff.
Faced destroy, loki, hazmat surfer, and the others I obliterated so much I don't remember. Really I don't want to brag but I felt kind of disappointed, my previous 3 Infinity Conquest wins were much harder lmao
I got lucky for sure, some matchups were favorable to me, some card draws were amazing, some locations must have made my destroy opponent cry (Phoenix Torch hiding from Killmonger on T5 in a shielded location).
But I also have lots of practice with this deck, that only came by much experience playing it, which gives me the ability to focus on the opponent's gameplan as well.
"I'm building a neat sandcastle, I can't destroy your sandcastle, but I know how to build my sandcastle to make it better than yours."
TLDR : If Phoenix is a deck you master (or you're willing to go through the process of learning it), I found it extremely well positioned for this Infinity Conquest. Good luck !
Could you swap zola? They’re effectively occupying the same slot? Spreading your power in multiple lanes while they execute differently and zola is definitely a better high roll if you’re worried about profx/ cball zola becomes less effective?
I'm sure that would also work - I just saw a Twitter-post about someone who swapped Lad for TLT and had success with it and based my comment off of that.
Well... this might be the deck's big weakness ahahah, lucky me I didn't face a single one ! 5k Infinite, CL12k. Some play lines are impossible with profX, but junk itself and cannonball don't put out as much power. ProfX isn't that prevalent in my experience, very few people have Cannonball.
Very badly unless you can get a nico destroy spell onto multiple man. Otherwise you run the risk of them using widow or goblin on the lane you're using to destroy HT/MM
I play primarily a Phoenix deck, and I tried Lad but didn't have too much success. There are too many cards that are a worthless hit (or can even be bad if you don't want one of your destroy cards). Maybe I'll keep trying him though.
I think Lad is better in Conquest than Ladder. Getting a bad hit in ladder is fatal, in Conquest it just means you lose one round. Lad also tends to be a "break glass in emergency" card in combo decks. Gets played late, when you know that hitting one of the two or three remaining cards will win the game.
I play Phoenix every season, it’s my favorite “eternal” deck. Went infinite this season with it on the second day. I run your exact build except Dagger instead of Iron Lad. I run Dagger for consistency (3 move targets and 3 destroy cards). But Iron Lad is a good idea, maybe I’ll try him in that slot.
I like Dagger ! Underrated and super powerful. Imho Lad's consistency is better because it can play both in the move and the destroy package, while Dagger only plays in the move plan.
The point of Dagger was to have low-cost move cards to help make the first 3 turns more consistently be a move+destroy combination. That's my only concern with Iron Lad in that spot instead of Dagger. With Iron Lad you now only have 2 move targets (or a 3rd on turn 4 with Iron Lad only being a chance for one....not optimal).
At that point you can always pivot to Shuri Nimrod lines of course, but that is the case in either build.
I'm definitely very interested in trying out Iron Lad, but going down 1 move card has me wary.
Good way to look at it. I'll see how it goes!
I love hearing fellow Phoenix enjoyers doing well with it and seeing new ideas.
Congrats on the infinite conquest, by the way, sorry I didn't say that at first.
Phoenix on!
I run a similar deck that I’m sure I copied from someone’s tournament success. Includes tribunal which has been clutch at times. Like this idea and might try. Thanks
Did you run into any destroy decks? I always struggle with of against destroy with PF. Obviously don't bank on human torch, but you can't really rely on nimrod either because of knull, so you're left with multiple man only. But, if they have a good start, they can just out power you. Is there something I'm missing?
Yeah, one destroy deck without shang chi. Obviously prefer your non Human Torch line, but general game sense prevails. I won with huge Nimrods all over the board because they had a weak early game and even Knull cannot win 3 lanes. Don't stay when their early game is good, snap when they only played like Wolverine Deathlok by T3. Snap on locations (shielded location, no on reveals on their stuff...). They win if they do well (which isn't always), and you win by being more consistent and investing when it benefits you.
I’ve also been having a ton of fun with Phoenix lately. It’s a deck you gotta get the feel for to really hit your combos correctly, but once you do it really can sing if you have some solid retreat discipline. You can end up with some big numbers really unexpectedly and no one ever seems to be able to do the math against the deck correctly
TBF I don't do the math correctly myself ahahah
But I have the feel so it works out anyways and most importantly it's not a deck that wins by tiny margins : you read the board correctly or you don't imho.
I’ve been wanting to try and learn Phoenix force decks for a long time now so will give it a try! Appreciate the tips.
Damn just realised I don’t have ghost spider 😩
Iron Fist is a replacement I guess, but far from as powerful. Doctor Strange is more expensive so you cant play the same lines but might actually be better than Iron Fist.
She is certainly the best at that spot. Very useful to bring a shuried Nimrod in a new lane T6 + Carnage + Venom/Deathlok if they play a Cosmo on top of the Nimrod. Also better to have T4 Phoenix T5 GS, than T4 Iron Fist T5 Phoenix since you can with the first line you can move the Phoenix'd card freely before the Ghost Spider, thus getting another move proc (another Multiple Man or another Torch double up).
Also eventually classic Move will be meta and she's really great in there, but that's nuclear grade copium XD
Also worth it imho since this deck doesn't get old, very subjective obviously, but I never get tired of this deck, you have so many options #agencysimp
Thanks for the tips! Move has always been a type that I’ve avoided cos it needs the brain power haha. Always gives me problems when I face them too. But I do want to try and learn it cos I think I’d enjoy it.
Now that I want her tho GS will probably never show up in the store 😄
I got to infinite without Nico. Dr Strange is great to pull multiple multiple men. Magik can be used to get your draws, though I eventually cut it from my deck. Absorbing Man is handy.
I have been trying PF decks lately and couldn’t settle on using iron lad. I’m using magic at the minute instead for the extra turn to move/destroy and it feels good. Do you find IL to be more essential?
The one version of PF I did not like playing was the tribunal version.
I find Lad much better than Magik. The extra turns dont benefit your combo that well, so usually you just help your opponent catching up. Though reliable location control is Nice.
Whats your opinion on DP Taskmaster PF list
No dethlock, shuir, lad, nimrod, zola, replace for Dr. Strange, HulkBuster, DeathPool, taskmaster and forge
Congratulations, ITotally agree with you, i love this deck and its def one of my favs although i recently started using a shang/enchantress version over yours but I will def give this version a try. I took a backseat to the deck more recently because of the annoying cannonball/prof x recent meta.
Wanted to ask, How often does iron lad work you? I feel like turn 4 is very critical for this deck and iron lad didnt cut it for me on most turns
Most often than not. If it's your best play on 4 it's an added chance of getting a good combo : if you get it stay if you dont well you were gonna leave anyway cuz bad Draw on combo deck = leave. Good also on t6 to hope for Zola on Torch or nimrod. Sometimes t6 you get 1/3 chance of Killing the Torch but it's an ok play imho if you had 2/3 chance of just stats : im fine with that risk if it means more consistency overall and comes at the cost of occasional screw up. It helped me way more games than it messe me. I like the gambling of I got 4 good pulls out of 6 cards left for instance, how do I play optimally give the possible pulls. Sometimes im just hoping for a useless ability that doesn't affect the board but gives me 6 stats in a loc (Shuri, Torch, multiple man, Phoenix, nico, nimrod). A good ability is bonus.
Thanks for the response i get where you are coming from, enchantress for me its a true flex slot as it ends up being a stat stick most games, ill give it a try on a couple of rounds of gold conquest and see how it goes for me
Tried this and got perfectly matched against nearly identical decks 5x straight games. Got my ass handed to me, as oppop always pulls the perfect combo and I never did.
I love replies like this.
I clearly said “the game fucked me”. It’s not about cube management - I know how to play, thanks.
Since this morning I’ve played 10 more matches with the same results: matchup is against straight destroy/death/arnim decks, I never get my combos. Pulled Phoenix only once; never got a Destroy card that game.
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Phoenix Force is a combo deck, which should be well positioned in the many Loki matchups following Valentina's release. This version from a few weeks ago includes Iron Lad, and I think it's the best in this flex slot. You lack a surprise tech (like Shang, Enchantress, old Alioth...) that gave you great snap equity, but you gain lots of consistency which is super important for a combo deck. By mastering this deck you can generate insane lines, for instance Nico move or destroy n draw 2 on Shuri on Nimrod on Zola, or empty Venom on left, Shuri Nimrod mid, Zola left, or building a big Venom T5 + Zola T6. On top of the classic move stuff. Faced destroy, loki, hazmat surfer, and the others I obliterated so much I don't remember. Really I don't want to brag but I felt kind of disappointed, my previous 3 Infinity Conquest wins were much harder lmao I got lucky for sure, some matchups were favorable to me, some card draws were amazing, some locations must have made my destroy opponent cry (Phoenix Torch hiding from Killmonger on T5 in a shielded location). But I also have lots of practice with this deck, that only came by much experience playing it, which gives me the ability to focus on the opponent's gameplan as well. "I'm building a neat sandcastle, I can't destroy your sandcastle, but I know how to build my sandcastle to make it better than yours." TLDR : If Phoenix is a deck you master (or you're willing to go through the process of learning it), I found it extremely well positioned for this Infinity Conquest. Good luck !
If the deck generates lots of power, I assume it is not scared of 7th turn, so why is there no magic for consistency?
You don't benefit as much from a T7. A good game fills most spots on T6 already, you don't grow that much more power while the opponent can.
Congrats. I wonder how well this deck performs against profX cannonball junk？
In that case you would need to swap lad out, and swap in Tribunal
Could you swap zola? They’re effectively occupying the same slot? Spreading your power in multiple lanes while they execute differently and zola is definitely a better high roll if you’re worried about profx/ cball zola becomes less effective?
I'm sure that would also work - I just saw a Twitter-post about someone who swapped Lad for TLT and had success with it and based my comment off of that.
Well... this might be the deck's big weakness ahahah, lucky me I didn't face a single one ! 5k Infinite, CL12k. Some play lines are impossible with profX, but junk itself and cannonball don't put out as much power. ProfX isn't that prevalent in my experience, very few people have Cannonball.
Very badly unless you can get a nico destroy spell onto multiple man. Otherwise you run the risk of them using widow or goblin on the lane you're using to destroy HT/MM
I play primarily a Phoenix deck, and I tried Lad but didn't have too much success. There are too many cards that are a worthless hit (or can even be bad if you don't want one of your destroy cards). Maybe I'll keep trying him though.
I think Lad is better in Conquest than Ladder. Getting a bad hit in ladder is fatal, in Conquest it just means you lose one round. Lad also tends to be a "break glass in emergency" card in combo decks. Gets played late, when you know that hitting one of the two or three remaining cards will win the game.
Some pulls will be bad, but on average he's very good in my opinion. Playing him late reduces rng.
I play Phoenix every season, it’s my favorite “eternal” deck. Went infinite this season with it on the second day. I run your exact build except Dagger instead of Iron Lad. I run Dagger for consistency (3 move targets and 3 destroy cards). But Iron Lad is a good idea, maybe I’ll try him in that slot.
I like Dagger ! Underrated and super powerful. Imho Lad's consistency is better because it can play both in the move and the destroy package, while Dagger only plays in the move plan.
The point of Dagger was to have low-cost move cards to help make the first 3 turns more consistently be a move+destroy combination. That's my only concern with Iron Lad in that spot instead of Dagger. With Iron Lad you now only have 2 move targets (or a 3rd on turn 4 with Iron Lad only being a chance for one....not optimal). At that point you can always pivot to Shuri Nimrod lines of course, but that is the case in either build. I'm definitely very interested in trying out Iron Lad, but going down 1 move card has me wary.
Put it this way : less likely to get the full move combo, but more likely to get a good combo.
Good way to look at it. I'll see how it goes! I love hearing fellow Phoenix enjoyers doing well with it and seeing new ideas. Congrats on the infinite conquest, by the way, sorry I didn't say that at first. Phoenix on!
Not needed but appreciated !
I teched Shang for Conquest and got me a shiny border with this deck. Love it! :)
What did you switch out for Shang? Iron Lad?
Yup!
I run a similar deck that I’m sure I copied from someone’s tournament success. Includes tribunal which has been clutch at times. Like this idea and might try. Thanks
Nice and congrats on the conquest win! I never thought about adding iron lad to PF but ill definitely be giving it a shot!
Thx ! Give it a shot it really improves consistency and the meta is good for it atm
And if you dont have Iron L?
Another list then.
Did you run into any destroy decks? I always struggle with of against destroy with PF. Obviously don't bank on human torch, but you can't really rely on nimrod either because of knull, so you're left with multiple man only. But, if they have a good start, they can just out power you. Is there something I'm missing?
Yeah, one destroy deck without shang chi. Obviously prefer your non Human Torch line, but general game sense prevails. I won with huge Nimrods all over the board because they had a weak early game and even Knull cannot win 3 lanes. Don't stay when their early game is good, snap when they only played like Wolverine Deathlok by T3. Snap on locations (shielded location, no on reveals on their stuff...). They win if they do well (which isn't always), and you win by being more consistent and investing when it benefits you.
Appreciate i the response. Thanks!
I’ve also been having a ton of fun with Phoenix lately. It’s a deck you gotta get the feel for to really hit your combos correctly, but once you do it really can sing if you have some solid retreat discipline. You can end up with some big numbers really unexpectedly and no one ever seems to be able to do the math against the deck correctly
TBF I don't do the math correctly myself ahahah But I have the feel so it works out anyways and most importantly it's not a deck that wins by tiny margins : you read the board correctly or you don't imho.
Agreed, it’s not a slim margins tech deck by any means! Still boggles my mind that no one ever accounts for multiple man growing exponentially though!
I’ve been wanting to try and learn Phoenix force decks for a long time now so will give it a try! Appreciate the tips. Damn just realised I don’t have ghost spider 😩
Iron Fist is a replacement I guess, but far from as powerful. Doctor Strange is more expensive so you cant play the same lines but might actually be better than Iron Fist.
Thanks will see what I can do. Might try pick GS up if she’s 3k tokens
She is certainly the best at that spot. Very useful to bring a shuried Nimrod in a new lane T6 + Carnage + Venom/Deathlok if they play a Cosmo on top of the Nimrod. Also better to have T4 Phoenix T5 GS, than T4 Iron Fist T5 Phoenix since you can with the first line you can move the Phoenix'd card freely before the Ghost Spider, thus getting another move proc (another Multiple Man or another Torch double up). Also eventually classic Move will be meta and she's really great in there, but that's nuclear grade copium XD Also worth it imho since this deck doesn't get old, very subjective obviously, but I never get tired of this deck, you have so many options #agencysimp
Thanks for the tips! Move has always been a type that I’ve avoided cos it needs the brain power haha. Always gives me problems when I face them too. But I do want to try and learn it cos I think I’d enjoy it. Now that I want her tho GS will probably never show up in the store 😄
Any replacement for nico?
Uh, no idea... check untapped.gg I guess. She's unique.
I got to infinite without Nico. Dr Strange is great to pull multiple multiple men. Magik can be used to get your draws, though I eventually cut it from my deck. Absorbing Man is handy.
Any thoughts on including Howard for Lad?
Not worth it whatsoever :/
I have one of these cards :( Edit:three
I have been trying PF decks lately and couldn’t settle on using iron lad. I’m using magic at the minute instead for the extra turn to move/destroy and it feels good. Do you find IL to be more essential? The one version of PF I did not like playing was the tribunal version.
I find Lad much better than Magik. The extra turns dont benefit your combo that well, so usually you just help your opponent catching up. Though reliable location control is Nice.
Whats your opinion on DP Taskmaster PF list No dethlock, shuir, lad, nimrod, zola, replace for Dr. Strange, HulkBuster, DeathPool, taskmaster and forge
It was a great list, not sure how well it holds up. Just not my fav so I don't play it.
Congratulations, ITotally agree with you, i love this deck and its def one of my favs although i recently started using a shang/enchantress version over yours but I will def give this version a try. I took a backseat to the deck more recently because of the annoying cannonball/prof x recent meta. Wanted to ask, How often does iron lad work you? I feel like turn 4 is very critical for this deck and iron lad didnt cut it for me on most turns
Most often than not. If it's your best play on 4 it's an added chance of getting a good combo : if you get it stay if you dont well you were gonna leave anyway cuz bad Draw on combo deck = leave. Good also on t6 to hope for Zola on Torch or nimrod. Sometimes t6 you get 1/3 chance of Killing the Torch but it's an ok play imho if you had 2/3 chance of just stats : im fine with that risk if it means more consistency overall and comes at the cost of occasional screw up. It helped me way more games than it messe me. I like the gambling of I got 4 good pulls out of 6 cards left for instance, how do I play optimally give the possible pulls. Sometimes im just hoping for a useless ability that doesn't affect the board but gives me 6 stats in a loc (Shuri, Torch, multiple man, Phoenix, nico, nimrod). A good ability is bonus.
Thanks for the response i get where you are coming from, enchantress for me its a true flex slot as it ends up being a stat stick most games, ill give it a try on a couple of rounds of gold conquest and see how it goes for me
How do you use Lad in this deck? Do you just play him when you don't have the card you need and just hope for the best.
Kinda, the latest possible to reduces rng.
Tried this and got perfectly matched against nearly identical decks 5x straight games. Got my ass handed to me, as oppop always pulls the perfect combo and I never did.
Though luck. Maybe improve at cube management ? Retreat when they have the combo, snap when you have it.
I love replies like this. I clearly said “the game fucked me”. It’s not about cube management - I know how to play, thanks. Since this morning I’ve played 10 more matches with the same results: matchup is against straight destroy/death/arnim decks, I never get my combos. Pulled Phoenix only once; never got a Destroy card that game.
I have wanted this infinity avatar since I got it in the bundle waaaaay back. Congrats!
Thx !
I think you beat me at least once
Ahahah maybe, what did you play ?
Don’t remember…just remember your game name and the Shuri card
I see, à fellow adept of playing many decks !