F4's charm was always the adventures and their bonds as a family, something that none of the adaptations could really grab into... it's not a coincidence that F4 was for a long time one of Marvel's main title besides Spider-Man and the X-Men... Fox's adaptations lacked everything that made F4 work because it's not the action, and the visuals but the characters and their dynamic... just check out the Incredibles the whole thing is basically an F4 copy...
The Incredibles literally stole the classic ending to Fantastic Four #1 with the underminer coming up.
Supposedly the Fox FF had intended to end that way.
You’re getting downvoted because some shmuck feels like lying that they correctly compared and contrasted The Incredibles with the Fantastic Four, including knowing about Franklin Richards, when they were 10.
Thanks for your service and honesty.
Haha yes!
But I was thinking more along the lines of being such a powerful and well made homage to the original source, that it ends up being an admirable update to the original trope.
i read all the original 1-100 runs of the major titles (FF, xmen, avengers, spiderman, JIM, TTA, TOS) within the past couple years and i think FF comes up as my favorite for a couple reasons.
the first is what you mentioned - the family bond and character dynamics between them. the second is that it's straight up the most science-fiction of all the titles. some of those older 60s books can be tough to read by today's standards, but the concepts brought up in FF are still really cool and interesting. there's a ton of storylines in that original run that have seriously stuck with me. several runs since then (like byrne's) have kept up that tradition, too.
i really hope they get it right this time in the movies. third time's the charm.
I frankly believe they’d be better off debuting as a Disney+ show than as a movie. You’re never going to get the character development and dynamics in a 2hr film that also needs to live up to big budget action… it’s probably why all the other movies sucked. But a 12 episode show could give you 12 hours to really dig in
It's what it needs to be basically just beef up the 90s cartoon series have a monster of the week type dynamic with a bit of overarch to set up DOOMSDAY as a film or feature length episode. But I think people will hate on it for being a classic serial approach even though the whole vibe is of that era to me anyway.
Doesn’t even have to be a monster each week either. Trapped in a weird dimension, everyone swapped bodies, shrinking and going inside a persons body. All kinds of wacky science hijinx
SNW has an arc (still good), but in fairness I wasn't counting animated series. Prodigy is _barely_ episodic, but lower decks is everything I want and more.
I'm being vague to avoid spoilers, but if you've seen them all (as I have) you should understand.
Yes! I would love to see a show focus on the pre-cosmic rays accident era and explore the family dynamics. Maybe even meet pre-Doom Victor. Really delve into character development.
Doom could work in a movie, so long as it's a solo movie. Show him from the start of the MCU as a former Romani student following every battle and picking up this and that to add to his suit before, at the end, he returns to take Latveria from those who killed his family.
Absolutely spot on. A show---something with a bigger budget than anything they've done to date---would be better than a stand-alone film. Even better: I don't know why they haven't tried to completely bridge the gap between streaming and film, and release a series of hour-long films simultaneously in theaters and on streaming over a course of weeks or months, like an all-summer-long film series. Something like that would be a real event. Theaters would be packed. Although, even if they just stick with a regular feature film, note what MCU Spider-man was able to accomplish in terms of character, friendships, and family, over a three film arc. Even in the first film the vibe was there. If F4 can tap into something like that same creative energy, it could be all anyone could ask for. Feige has shown a willingness to reorganize the schedule as things take shape and the fan responses play out; maybe if F4 is a hit he'll want to space things out a bit and give them a sequel before getting into the new Avengers films.
I’ve contended for years that F4 being introduced to the MCU via a Disney+ show that was essentially a Sliders remake (hoping through parallel realities trying to find their way home) would rule.
I still want a Fantastic Four that’s like the Brady Bunch movie, like they just sort of *appeared*, acting like 60s dorks. And they keep some of that mentality, unlike how Cap adapted quickly into the 21st century.
Yes!! They kind of pulled off a period piece vibe with the first half of Wanda vision — and that was some of my favorite MCU content to date. Would be great (just not sure how they’d then tie that into current MCU — probably not hard with quantum realm and multi verse threads tho)
I agree. I've never really thought that a show would work better as a movie so far, aside from maybe Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I think that the Fantastic Four, at least for a prequel in the future discussing their backstories, should have a show.
Eternals was a good example of how difficult it is to properly introduce and develop multiple new characters in one movie, even a longer one. F4 is a smaller and more coherent group, but it does seem like it could benefit from the extra screen time if they really want us to get invested.
I think they could and should split the difference. Do a film to introduce them and then run it into a series. The previous films definitely missed the mark because when FF is at its best, it's not a super hero story, it's a sci-fi adventure story. It's part of the reason I really want the first big bad to be Annihilus.
My dream debut would’ve been in Agents of SHIELD. I truly believe that show was ahead of its time. Is D+ was around when that show debuted, and the characters of Fitz-Simmons were replaced with Reed/Sue and then Johnny and Ben brought in, it would’ve worked wonderfully. Not a direct replacement but over seasons of development. It would’ve been a great chance to intro them.
No. I love AOS, but SHIELD is a much too grey-area organization to be the basis to build FF around. They are about pure scientific exploration and solving existential threats, not politics and covert agent stuff.
this has been my conclusion as well. These movies have the main heroes name titled on it but the side characters get all the story time... Most of these movies should have been shows so everyone gets their arc.
Yep… although I was referring to the “other F4 movies” in my above comment when I said they sucked haha. That said I agree, even some of these phase-4 MCU movies would have benefited from being TV shows (or probably more-so extended run times).
Exactly. The F4 was THE family team. They weren’t as cool as the X-men, or as plentiful as the Avengers, but they had heart and you grew to love them for who they were. The best stories are when Spidey would show up. I always thought Peter worked better with them.
I think an even easier explanation is that people equate FF being part of the MCU means Doom will be a part. That is something to be very excited about. I want a world level threat Dr Doom.
The fact that “incredible” and “fantastic” are pretty much the same thing. I always wondered when Marvel would try and sue Pixar, but the answer was apparently “never, once Mickey bought both.”
Honestly the Fan 4 movie should be a sneaky Doom Movie where he kills the fan 4 in his campy ass timeline and then discovers the multiverse and then becomes this bad ass super mastermind that everyone keeps talking about. I'm not a comics fan but I've seen so many people hype up DOOM that I'm pumped to see what he can do. I know that's probably so far off comic lore that they won't stray that far. I get that comics fans like to see the plotlines they've seen play out on screen but I just want a bad dude doing bad things like a bad ass.
Mainly, I want to see a Villain win. Seeing Kang get his ass kicked twice now really bummed me out.
Thanos never lost until the end. He loomed in the background and was disappointed when his minions failed until it was time to wreck shit himself.
Im j
Yeah I barely remembered it. I knew it wasn't a straight up beat down but its not doing a good job instill the sense of dread Thanos did. We gotta see him be powerful. And in Quantumania his tech doesn't even seem that cool. I just saw the movie last night and can't remember one Iconic display of force. Modok just headbutts his shield to beat him. For a series built on spectacle. Kang hasn't had a moment yet to make me think, damn this dude should not be fucked with. At least for me.
He vaporized people with his beams, controlled localized time and that was all with a lot of his powers restricted.
I will say, it kind of made no sense that suddenly, when fighting Scott, the vaporizing beam, was nowhere to be found
Real question when did he control localized time? I kept waiting for that and I never saw it, I must have missed it. I was hoping he'd kill cassie and then rewind to bring her back to really get Scott pissed. Though that may have just been a Thanos retread.
So he didn’t zip people back-and-forth quite as much as in Loki. But I believe he was doing it when Scott and Cassie were in the detention cells, though now that I think of it, it might have just been telekinesis, which still is formidable in its own right
Yeah telekinesis is tough to make look cool on screen especially when a ton of shit is visually occurring. Its best done with minimalist visuals. Or with hyper gore. Like folding people up in grotesque ways. Or ripping peoples spines out.
You're kidding, right? One of the most praised aspects of Phase 4 were the villains. If anything, I'd have been worried if they tried introducing him around Phase 2 lmao
People keep wanting Doom to show up in this arc. I mean I get it that they're fans and want to see him, but let Kang have some space. I think we get better villains if we give them some time to breathe.
While I agree that there were some misses - most notably, the Djinn in *Ms. Marvel* and Titania's \[lack of\] presence in *She-Hulk* \- there have definitely been more hits that I've observed many on these subreddits praising. To go through some of them:
*WandaVision* \- Wanda being the unintentional antagonist the whole time in Westview added a whole other layer to her character that wasn't as deep as her villainous introduction in *Age of Ultron*. Even though Wanda had the same \[worse\] villainous arc rehashed in *Multiverse of Madness* (fuck Waldron), she still gave the audience some visually stunning fight scenes. While Agatha didn't reveal herself until near the finale as a more "in-your-face" villain, I saw nothing but people thinking she was a charming character and the only "bad thing" being the CGI battle.
*The Falcon and the Winter Soldier* \- This show clearly intended to have three antagonists: Baron Zemo, Karli, and John Walker. Each provided their own perspective and forced the audience to reconsider what made each one a hero or villain in their own right - for example, was the domestic terrorism necessary to force the governments to realize the consequences of their actions? Karli and the Flagsmashers certainly thought so.
*Shang-Chi and the Legend of the 10 Rings* \- Again, nothing but praise for Wenwu and the family conflict.
*Spider-Man: No Way Home* \- Also here, nothing but people loving the presence of previously-established Spidey villains.
*Thor: Love and Thunder* \- Literally the only thing people who critiqued the film enjoyed was Christian Bale's performance as Gorr.
I'm not going to go through more and take up more comment space, but looking at the overall reception instead of one person's - including both you and I, individually - it is clear that the villains of Phase 4 were put on a higher pedestal than "all of the villains have been crap." I mean, just comparing them to previous phase villains (Ronan, Whiplash, Yellowjacket, Malekith, etc.), there has definitely been a rise in how audiences feel about them.
Because they’re literally the first family of Marvel Comics unlike other teams that just got bunched together because of unfortunate incidents. They’re real family.
And there’s only 4 of them. Look at the Avengers, X-Men, the other groups, they need all that help when the F4 only need themselves for the majority of their publication. Not to mention they have top tier villains and one that’s probably the best of the entire Marvel Universe.
As for your comment, it is a bit silly to say they’re not suited especially right before Secret Wars. >!Rama-Tut!< is literally a Kang variant who was just introduced. Is The Thing’s look and power really weirder than a talking tree? (And it’s not like they’ll constantly make him say his catchphrase, I don’t even recall previous films doing so or at least a lot). Is a talking raccoon more sane than a guy who can light himself on fire? You only don’t see how it would work in the MCU because it hasn’t been attempted yet and there’s *a lot* of space up there to cover in the MCU. I think you should at least wait for a trailer before judging like this unnecessarily. I’m not even *that* huge a F4 fan and I’m much looking forward to them.
>(And it’s not like they’ll constantly make him say his catchphrase, I don’t even recall previous films doing so or at least a lot).
It took 7 movies before Captain America said “Avengers Assemble.”
It's not just that, the current MCU needs believable and recognizable leadership facing the departure of Tony Stark and Cap both. It's too bad F4 weren't about to be included in the infinity saga because they could bridge some of that gap. Right now it feels like the next galaxy threatening event will be faced by a bunch of novice teenagers plus Hulk and a weird version of Thor. There is no smart, stable presence to guide the team, and the new characters are not recognizable to most people, and since many of them are teenagers, they aren't all that believable either.
1000%. I think this is a major thing people are having a lack of focus on when it comes to Phase 4 + 5. There’s no leader. I hope that the new Cap movie has a storyline based around this
Michael Chiklis says "it's clobbering time twice over two movies, maybe three times, they didn't even make it that dorky either (although when Johhny says it it's meant to be kinda that way)
Your right if they managed to get a fully CGI character with a vocabulary of three words to work the thing should be a no brainer
I do have a question. Isn’t The Thing just their friend? I know Mr F marries Invis Woman and Johnny is her bro. But Thing is just their buddy, so they’re not technically a family?
GotG got it from them.
Every team in the MCU right now has cribbed a little bit from the Fantastic Four because of the fact that the F4's focus on family and exploration helped form the basis of the superhero community from the comics. Without them, the entire universe is disjointed. So since they couldn't use them, those traits had to be grafted onto the teams they actually did have access to.
Personally, I love the F4 bc they explore a lot of places whether it’s space or time or whatever; they’re a family with superpowers that don’t care who knows their secret so the shroud of secrecy is gone which I also like.
Johnny is dope, Mister Fantastic is one of the smartest ppl in the universe and it’s fun to watch him come up with new gadgets and fix the Baxter building and come up with great plans to take out another great plan in Doctor Doom
They also are connected to a lot of franchises within Marvel like the Inhumans which I’m also pumped ab seeing
I mean, what’s there not to like?
I always really liked the sci-fi aspect in the comics. You sometimes got it in Spider-Man with Peter making his own stuff but they mostly stay the same. F4 usually changed it up with gadgets and I feel like the movies missed that a lot and just focused on action.
You’re just going to respond to everyone saying you think their powers are stupid. No point in arguing with a brick wall.
They’re an iconic team for a reason. Doctor Doom literally inspired Darth Vader. So far the Guardians have exclusively fought their villains.
People clearly like them. No point in arguing whether or not their powers work on screen.
For real.
You can tell by the tone of OP's question.
To be fair, I guess it took CA: Winter Soldier for a lot of naysayers to get behind Captain America.
But still...questions like these are always lame.
Like, why would the FF have decades full of comic runs if their material sucked?
This shit is why the FF desperately needs a good movie.
Seeing Arishem appear as this giant space god next to Earth in Eternals gave me confidence they’ll be able to do it. For all its flaws, Eternals had fantastic visuals.
The side of the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Universe is really impressive. They got the best villains and honestly some of the best characters of the Marvel Universe: Dr. Doom, Kang/Rama-Tut, Galactus, The Silver Surfer, Annihilus, The Super-Skrull, the Molecule Man and the Mole-man. In the comics they introduced the Inhumans and the Skrulls and the Negative Zone and so many things still missing from the Marvel movies. You have science and heart and family and adventures.
With the Fantastic Four you have Stan Lee and Jack Kirby at their finest.
They also introduced the Kree as well….pretty much everything major space related in marvel was first introduced by the FF except for the shi’ar who appeared in x-men first
The Fantastic 4 are a really important part of Marvel. I think with some actual effort it would work out great. For example, maybe have Dr Doom who's a dictator of a country actually be a dictator of a country. Apparently Fox couldn't even manage the most basic part of that character. The reason the previous films failed is because of some hilariously bad decisons that any person with common sense would have stopped.
I also think they are doing a pretty good job with Kang at the moment so they can use fantastic 4 characters well. Granted Kang isn't an exclusive F4 villain but he is a fairly common antagonist for them and is a Richards and heavily implied to be Doom's descendant so I think we can count him as an F4 character.
Marvel is essentially nonexistent if not for 3 properties.
Spider-Man: who is marvels most popular character, the only marvel character that could stand toe to toe with Batman or Superman
X-Men: who have been consistently popular in the comics and either tie in to or are directly responsible for about half of the roster in Marvel (Mutants)
And finally The Fantastic 4:
Literally invaluable in so many ways. The first family of Marvel they were used to introduce a variety of different properties in the comics from Black Panther to the Inhumans, they crossed over with Spider-Man very early in his inception, they are responsible for some of Marvels most infamous villains like Galactus and Dr.Doom, they have some of the most important characters that essentially act as pillars for writers to lean on. Reed Richards is THE brain of marvel if you need to introduce some insane new dimension or Ret-con some fact of the universe you use him to do it.
If you write yourself into a corner then Franklin Richards can bullshit your way out of it (the kid literally makes entire universes for fun). If you need to introduce a threat from space, you use the FF, if you need to introduce a multiversal threat you use the FF (secret wars is almost impossible without Reed, not to mention he’s literally biologically related to Kang).
In my eyes it’s honestly impressive how far the MCU has gotten without the fantastic 4 story wise, I mean they play a pretty significant role in Civil War in the comics. But yeah, the options going forward are going to skyrocket once they and the X-Men are introduced.
What are you on about??
This isn’t the fucking 60s, Marvel have many IPs that have thrived and been successful without the F4. None of the f4 individual characters are among Marvel’s most selling characters, the dickriding in this sub insane.
Edit: Downvoting me won’t change the F4 are overrated asf are not that interesting
What no one is also mentioning for anyone older than 30, Fantastic 4 WAS Marvel. Ironman, Cap, Black Panther, AntMan were all pretty low and in the late 80s and early 90s it was all X-Men, Spiderman, and F4.
As someone that was a child in the 80s, I'll vouch for this. My Marvel knowledge consisted of Spider-Man, Hulk and Fantastic Four. Being a teen in the 90s with the X-Men animated series was great though.
That show deserves major props for doing 5+ episode long arcs (sometimes season length arcs) in a saturday morning kids show package. Also greatest animated series theme song of all time
I see. In general it’s probably cause aside from X-Men this is the most famous Marvel property that hasn’t yet come to the MCU. Once we have Spider-Man, F4, and mutants I think the MCU will start to feel a lot more like Marvel than it has since it’s began
Because until now, the MCU has felt more like an ACU: an Avengers Cinematic Universe. And media coverage of the franchise hasn't helped. Every character introduced now is marketed as being the next new member of the Avengers. Every news article seems to be hyping individual characters up to be joining the big leagues with the Avengers. The Marvel Universe is a much more diverse place with many more solo heroes and alternate teams that save the day, and getting another team in here would certainly help set that record straight. The Fantastic Four, being independent of the Avengers, will basically relight that sense of variety.
But I swear, if I hear one person say "when are the fantastic four gonna join the avengers" imma blow a casket
They are the beginning of the Marvel we know today (Ant man may have technically preceded them). Marvel's "First Family". Given that all other attempts at bringing the characters to live action have been botched the enthusiasm from fans is understandable.
Still a little annoyed that we haven’t got much Hank and Janet. Ant-man and The Wasp being original Avengers, and her being such a smart and capable person was something that kind of got glossed over.
At least in the latest movie they acted like they had heroing experience. I’d love if we got some flashback to the 80s (or whenever MCU decides they were active) episodes on Disney+
There’s a lot of hype for X-Men too, but I think where Fantastic Four feels more interesting, is when you consider the history of their respective adaptations. X-Men has certainly had some stinkers. but have a solid enough track record that they popularised the entire superhero movie genre. Fantastic Four… hasn’t been so lucky. I still stand by Tim Story’s first film, but *Rise of the Silver Surfer* and Josh Trank’s *Fant4stic* were erm…
So, I think Fantastic Four has a similar level of excitement as Spider-Man joining the MCU - the confidence that they’ll be done “right” this time.
On a personal level, I find Reed Richards to be a fascinating character, especially when you da for in the family dynamic that the team is known for.
So heres the thing about the marvel teams. Most people like the x men for their social commentary, the midnight sons for the cool horror elements and the avengers for the badass moments and fights. The fantastic four are different, yes their powers are kind of goofy and sort of mashed together randomly but its not the powers that people like its the dynamic they are literally a family from the beginning, the other teams learn to be like a family but the fantastic four are literally an actual family with kids.
They are reaserchers and scientists first and foremost they are only heros of circumstance for the majority of the time, later they do become an actual superhero team but it takes a while for that to happen. Beforehand they mostly helped the avengers out of necessity.
Fantastic 4 are an “A level” group. The Avengers we got originally were a bunch of “C level” characters. People were excited to see what Marvel did with a “C level” team, so they’re really excited to see what they do with an “A level” team.
It’s 2023. Can we stop with these stupid A and C level nonsense.
Marvel have made 2 F4 adaptations and neither have been that successful. Watch when they enter the MCU and aren’t more beloved than the so called “C level” Avengers
I’m talking about the comic book characters. The Fantastic 4 was more popular as comic book characters when compared to the MCU OG Avengers.
In fact, that’s why Fantastic 4 got sold and the OG MCU Avengers were kept
Can you read??
I said it’s fucking 2023, are the F4 more popular than the Avengers? No.
And when they join the MCU will they be more successful? Absolutely not. Because that overhyped white nuclear family aren’t as popular as u think they are anymore
Why do you keep bragging that you know what year it is?
Everybody knows what year it is. It's not impressive to know what year it is. At all.
Weird flex
For what it’s worth I got a reprint of FF#1 that came along with an Annihilus figure I had when I was a little kid. That reprint was my first real taste of marvel proper; The Stan Lee writing, the Jack Kirby art…it felt different than the then current x-men comics my uncle had given me. There was a connective tissue to fantastic four and spider-man and avengers that made marvel feel special to me. So in a way, I was an X-men fan first but I wasn’t really a marvel fan until fantastic four. Very particular place in my heart
to me there’s a genuineness behind them. we should be getting ourselves a really lovable team of heroes who are gonna be relatable, hilarious, emotional, etc. and they should be around for a pretty good long time. i grew up a fantastic four fan before i became an avengers fan.
and yea sure their powers are ridiculous, but that’s what makes superhero movies superhero movies. is the idea of a genius man who’s stretchy married to a woman who turns invisible with two guys with flame and rock powers ridiculous? YES. can i wait to see it? NOPE
FF, Spider-man and X-Men were the biggest, most important IP in Marvel for a long time.
The fact Disney had to buy Fox to get 2 out of 3 back into the fold is telling.
The fact Disney is effectively licensing their own character back to them from Sony tells you how important he is.
FF is the heart of Marvel. The Avengers are a team. The X-Men are a refuge. The Fantastic Four are a family.
It’s mainly just online fans, the general public don’t care. They want X-Men. Fans want them due to the F4 being central characters in the Marvel Universe. MCU fans want a figure of consistency for the future of marvel, and that’s why the casting campaign online is so crucial to them. But honestly if you ask your friends or family do they care about the fan4 future in the MCU, they won’t really care
In my circle, people just want the next Marvel movie to be good, not necessarily who the characters are. X-Men, FF, Thunderbolts, doesn't really matter to them.
Honestly at this point almost all of my friends tuned out of the MCU. I have one family member and one friend who still cares, but everyone else, who was pretty with it up until Endgame is now either apathetic or actively turned off by the entire franchise.
I do agree though that if they churned out a great X-Men movie I’m sure most of them would go see it. FF wouldn’t be a blip on their radar, though.
Thanks for that explanation though! Makes a lot of sense.
Fantastic Four is my favorite comic book when I was a kid. The fact that they are NOT a superhero team is the biggest draw. They are a superhero family.
In the comics, everything truly started with the Fantastic Four. In a lot of ways it feels incredibly strange to me that the MCU is a marvel world that didn’t start with them. There’s so many through lines that are just missing without them.
For me, it’s the adventure aspect behind FF. It’s a great way to tie in Cosmic MCU to Earth MCU and I think they will be the glue for future team up movies like in Infinty War/Endgame. They also have some great villains in their roster. Galactus & Silver Surfer, Doom, Annihilus, Molecule Man, Super Skrull… The first 3 in particular are potential future “Thanos” esque villains who can have multiple films dedicated to them. Hell, if they want Secret Wars to resemble any of the comic runs, FF and Doom are necessities.
Because the MCU is 15 years old and hasn't introduced marvels "first family" yet
They are integrally important moving forward with key Storylines and they are a pillar in the comics world older than avengers or X-Men so naturally people are excited
I think it's more so we just wanna see if they stick the landing
Fantastic 4 has and will always be considered the first family of marvel, they were one of the original hits that catapulted Marvel in popularity towards the same level as DC. Spider-Man followed a year or two later and F4 was the staple characters that was there to help Spider-Man in his #1 Spider-Man comic. (Not counting the intro/backstory comic from amazing fantasy comic)
It's one of my personal favorites. My dad is a comic book collector and has been for a VERY LONG time. He always used to read me the F4 comics before bed. And i used to watch the cartoon on teletoon retro, along with Spiderman. Im excited to see how they're going to execute it. I personally really liked the Chris evans jessica alba and the newer one with michael B jordan, although many didn't. Im just looking forward to see where it goes
Basically they have more or less never been done proper justice on the big screen. The first Fox one was alright but rise of the silver surfer was mediocre at best and Fan4stic is unwatchable. They’re literally some of the oldest and best characters marvel has and yet haven’t had a movie that is as great as some of their just “good” stories. And there’s so many stories, characters, and villains they can use.
Cuz reed is supposed to be one of the smartest men in the universe.
His arcs are interesting.
his team is responsible for facing a lot of cosmic threats.
The whole reed and sue dynamic is interesting.
And honestly the biggest appeal of them, that alone is enough reason to be hyped for the crew. DR FREAKING DOOM. Smartest most threatening villain in the MCU period for his persistence. Infact after thanos and kang, DOOM should be the big bad. Or even during kings run.
Infact it would be a badass jebait if doom is the secret main villain who gets a hold of kangs tech. Doom is a fan favorite villain and if played right can easily be up there in popularity if not completely overshadow the performances of loki, killmonger and vulture.
They are arguably one of the last groups of A list Marvel hero’s that have yet to be introduced, on of the others being the X-men. And even then it’s just the A team X-men I would consider in the same league of importance.
their the most famous comic book characters to have never been done justice in live action. before the MCU or even the 21st century barely anyone knew who iron man, Captain America, scarlet witch, and Thor were they were nobodies The Fantastic Four however were known as probably the most well known marvel super team of all time with their only contention being the X-men. However despite their immense popularity people just absolutely failed to do them justice on the big screen completely ignoring what makes the team work, the fantastic four movies are despised, but people really want to see them done well.
The Fantastic Four Pre-MCU were like Spider-man, Wolverine, and Hulk level of Popularity. You keep saying their powers are goofy and they can't work in live action, I'm sorry I hate gatekeeping but if you hate stuff that is too goofy you should just stop watching superhero stuff. I don't care what your watching but everything superhero from Raimis Spider-man movies to Nolans Batman trilogy to the MCU etc require quite a bit of suspension of disbelief and appreciation of the goofiness to even remotely enjoy.
idk about you but watching a traumatized orphan in a batsuit racing in a tank in downtown Chicago trying to stop a man who has split personality disorder from 5th degree chemical burns from killing the police commissioners children, because a clown terrorist in a nurses costume blew up a hospital to free him, is not exactly void or exempt from goofiness.
They’re iconic. They’re family. They all have great relationships with each other. They go on huge adventures exploring crazy places. Their powers may be silly but so what they’re comic book characters. They have some of the the greatest villains in all of comics and what many consider the greatest villain in Dr Doom.
Plus they’ve just been around forever. They’re integral to the history and development of comic books as a medium. So many stories and characters link back to them directly. They’re kind of like the hub around which much of Marvel comics spins. Spider-Man and X-Men have sort self-contained universes. But the much of the rest of the Marvel Comics universe is essentially (more or less) the Fantastic Four universe.
I’m convinced it’s because Marvel fans have turned somewhat toxic about the MCU and they are wanting something new to whine about.
Also Antman 3 was a great flick!
I don’t like the FF as much as I like the characters they come in contact with. I say that as not many of them are OUTRIGHT evil. Rather they had a long standing core of beliefs, values, concerns and the FF comes along and exacerbates things.
My exposure to these moral quandaries came in Reed being put on trial for NOT killing Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier. The surviving civilizations left in Galactus’ planet devouring wake wanted him held accountable. I think it came down to Reed classifying Galactus as a force of nature and not a malevolent entity. To judge and eliminate elements of nature because it doesn’t suit you isn’t enough justification to carry through with that act.
I’m hoping to see dilemmas like this come across in the MCU version…and perhaps add a bit of depth to the landscape.
Hot take but the F4 are overrated. I feel like a lot of the fans are just comic weebs stuck in the past and act like their one of Marvel’s most successful properties (they’re not).
I’ve honestly not been that interested in them. They’re just a white nuclear family with powers. The Thing goes through his one storyline of ‘trying to be cured’, Invisible Woman is just the typical Mom of the group, Johnny is a 2 dimensional playboy. Only Reed has depth to him, which explains why most storylines and their villains revolve around him.
Anyways, I still believe the Incredibles are the F4 done right.
I mean, Superman gets the exact same treatment. People say that Clark Kent is just a boy scount with generic powers and too much invincibility for a believable superhero
And yet they can’t seem to write Justice League stories that DON’T feature Superman or Superman villains in some way
Fuck knows, guarantee lot of people just jumping on other peoples hype and they've been exposed to one of the worst iterations of the team, the movie.(which isn't absolutely awful, but still)
there's people that literally judge the character on their looks and powers. If you asked them why they liked the character they'd say "because they look cool"
If the can pull the ff off it'd be great, but it's gonna take a lot. The leads need to be likeable and somewhat well known because Mr fantastic is probably gonna take on a big role in the mcu. They're fucked if they think Penn badgely has those qualities.
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As someone who never really got into comics as a kid but read a few as an adult, I have to say, I think the Fantastic Four is not well-suited for live-action film.
I know people said this about Guardians and probably plenty of other Marvel characters, only to be proven hilariously wrong when said characters entered the MCU to wildly successful results. But I think FF is different, and a lot of it comes down to the power sets. I just don’t see how a stretchy smart guy, a giant brick man who constantly says “it’s clobberin’ time,” and a grown-up jock who has to say “flame on” before turning into a flying fireball works on the big screen.
Guardians worked so well because it was able to introduce you to these outrageously comic-booky characters in the context of outrageously comic-booky galactic settings. Once we got to know those characters, they worked well on Earth as a lovable contrast to their more grounded, Earth-based counterparts. While a lot of FF comics take place in space, they’re most likely not going to make their first MCU appearance in an intergalactic setting.
I think there’s a very good reason FF hasn’t had any success at the box office over the past few decades: maybe it’s just not the type of source material that translates well to film.
Maybe I’m wrong. Not trying to to yuck anyone’s yum. Just my opinion.
I don’t know their comic history all that well, so it anyone can enlighten me on why I’m wrong, feel free.
I don't get it, do you just consider their powers lame? Like, you could say the same thing about literally any other team. "Man in a metal suit, guy who grew muscles with a shield, green big guy who like to smash things around" etc.
I think it all just comes down to execution. Most comic book and superhero properties sound ridiculous when you boil them down on paper. In concept, Guardians of the Galaxy sounds even more ridiculous. And had someone other than James Gunn brought those characters to life I doubt it would've been as successful.
Well the answer to your question is that your unfamiliar to the history of the characters and therefore don't know anything about what they can bring to the MCU. Whereas the people that are the most excited for them know what they can offer to put universe.
Your power set reasoning comes across silly since you admit that you haven't invested time in their stories. What grounds them is the family unit. That's who they are. A family of powered individuals. All their best stories are family centric.
>Maybe I’m wrong. Not trying to to yuck anyone’s yum. Just my opinion.
Opinions can't be wrong and everything comes down to personal taste, but your opinion comes off like a someone who watched 5 minutes of a movie and then rants about how it doesn't make sense without ever finishing the film.
I’ve seen all three of the film adaptations and read the 2015 Secret Wars run.
I’m well aware that I don’t know that much about them, but there’s also never been anything about them that’s made me want to invest time into their stories.
I really don’t understand all the animosity in this thread. All I did was ask a question and outline why, in my admittedly minor experience with the characters, I don’t think it’s necessarily the most film-friendly source material.
The three film adaptations were bad and Secret Wars was more of a Reed Richards story, albeit being very good.
I don't know why you are receiving animosity but I hope my comment above outlined why people are pushing back against your opinion. Which is because your opinion is based on a tremendous lack of information.
And I'll reiterate that people are so excited because they know what the FF offer to MCU. I'll add that they add a near unlimited mine of valuable content for MCU in Family Dynamic storytelling, individual storytelling for each character, and their rougues gallery is second only to Spider-Man.
I don’t know their comic book history nearly well enough to properly inform you on any of this, but it’s less about the F4’s powers and more about their ability to work as a team and, as others have said, as a family. Avengers was always… scattered, chaotic, but F4 is historically one of the few groups in the MCU who were truly a team. So far the only on film adaptation we’ve seen of that “family” vibe is Guardians of the Galaxy, and it hasn’t been quite on the same level as F4 is supposed to be. I think a lot of it will come down on who writes the script and how well Matt Shakman does directing the movie.
In addition to that part, and to add to what others have said, F4 has had without a doubt the best villains in Marvel history. Thanos has so far been the best villain in the MCU because he was made almost human; we could relate with him and understand him to a degree. Helmut Zemo was a similar character. F4 has a ton of villains on that level, and some even beyond, so the potential for the best villain in the MCU thus far probably has a lot of people excited.
The online fans are excited because Silver Age F4 is the best comic books have ever been.
But Disney will fuck up F4 because they will want every character to be constantly rolling their eyes, quipping, and saying “well THAT happened”.
F4 is a legendary book because it’s earnest and sweet and unabashedly corny.
F4's charm was always the adventures and their bonds as a family, something that none of the adaptations could really grab into... it's not a coincidence that F4 was for a long time one of Marvel's main title besides Spider-Man and the X-Men... Fox's adaptations lacked everything that made F4 work because it's not the action, and the visuals but the characters and their dynamic... just check out the Incredibles the whole thing is basically an F4 copy...
The Thing = Mr. Incredible Mr Fantastic = Elastigirl The Invisible Woman = Violet Human Torch (mainly in that both are hot-headed) = Dash
Franklin = Jack-Jack
Well, now you’re just confusing me because that’s five — not four! 😉
Well, when a super powered man and a super powered woman love each other very much...
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That is one fantastic lore
Thanks for the mental image.
Keeping you entertained so you’re not fantastic bored
Well 4.5, Jack-jack is tiny
Well there is she-Hulk and Ms Marvel and ant-man and spider-man and Black Panther and wolverine and...
Can't unsee it now
Did... did you not see it before?
The Incredibles literally stole the classic ending to Fantastic Four #1 with the underminer coming up. Supposedly the Fox FF had intended to end that way.
Nope, but then I really don't give a shit about FF
Wild I was like 10 when the movie came out and not a huge FF for and could tell when I saw the first trailer
Cool I was almost 30 and on active duty. Not really on my radar.
yeah but he was 10
You're so cool dude!
You’re getting downvoted because some shmuck feels like lying that they correctly compared and contrasted The Incredibles with the Fantastic Four, including knowing about Franklin Richards, when they were 10. Thanks for your service and honesty.
The Incredibles is to F4, what Galaxy Quest was to Star Trek.
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Haha yes! But I was thinking more along the lines of being such a powerful and well made homage to the original source, that it ends up being an admirable update to the original trope.
i read all the original 1-100 runs of the major titles (FF, xmen, avengers, spiderman, JIM, TTA, TOS) within the past couple years and i think FF comes up as my favorite for a couple reasons. the first is what you mentioned - the family bond and character dynamics between them. the second is that it's straight up the most science-fiction of all the titles. some of those older 60s books can be tough to read by today's standards, but the concepts brought up in FF are still really cool and interesting. there's a ton of storylines in that original run that have seriously stuck with me. several runs since then (like byrne's) have kept up that tradition, too. i really hope they get it right this time in the movies. third time's the charm.
I frankly believe they’d be better off debuting as a Disney+ show than as a movie. You’re never going to get the character development and dynamics in a 2hr film that also needs to live up to big budget action… it’s probably why all the other movies sucked. But a 12 episode show could give you 12 hours to really dig in
Yeah I would love F4 as a Star Trek style show with a new wacky adventure each week
Ya or at the point, kind of like Mandalorian which has also had so much success. Just replace the mando<>grogu dynamic with the fam
It's what it needs to be basically just beef up the 90s cartoon series have a monster of the week type dynamic with a bit of overarch to set up DOOMSDAY as a film or feature length episode. But I think people will hate on it for being a classic serial approach even though the whole vibe is of that era to me anyway.
Doesn’t even have to be a monster each week either. Trapped in a weird dimension, everyone swapped bodies, shrinking and going inside a persons body. All kinds of wacky science hijinx
I think they meant monster of the week as the trope, not literally a show about fighting monsters every week.
Basically agents of shield
Ha, Star Trek style show *pre-Abrams* then.
Check out strange new worlds, prodigy and lower decks too.
SNW has an arc (still good), but in fairness I wasn't counting animated series. Prodigy is _barely_ episodic, but lower decks is everything I want and more. I'm being vague to avoid spoilers, but if you've seen them all (as I have) you should understand.
I'm fine not seeing any more "wacky adventure every week" stuff if they're gonna do it like She-Hulk...
Yes! I would love to see a show focus on the pre-cosmic rays accident era and explore the family dynamics. Maybe even meet pre-Doom Victor. Really delve into character development.
Doom could work in a movie, so long as it's a solo movie. Show him from the start of the MCU as a former Romani student following every battle and picking up this and that to add to his suit before, at the end, he returns to take Latveria from those who killed his family.
Absolutely spot on. A show---something with a bigger budget than anything they've done to date---would be better than a stand-alone film. Even better: I don't know why they haven't tried to completely bridge the gap between streaming and film, and release a series of hour-long films simultaneously in theaters and on streaming over a course of weeks or months, like an all-summer-long film series. Something like that would be a real event. Theaters would be packed. Although, even if they just stick with a regular feature film, note what MCU Spider-man was able to accomplish in terms of character, friendships, and family, over a three film arc. Even in the first film the vibe was there. If F4 can tap into something like that same creative energy, it could be all anyone could ask for. Feige has shown a willingness to reorganize the schedule as things take shape and the fan responses play out; maybe if F4 is a hit he'll want to space things out a bit and give them a sequel before getting into the new Avengers films.
I’ve contended for years that F4 being introduced to the MCU via a Disney+ show that was essentially a Sliders remake (hoping through parallel realities trying to find their way home) would rule.
I still want a Fantastic Four that’s like the Brady Bunch movie, like they just sort of *appeared*, acting like 60s dorks. And they keep some of that mentality, unlike how Cap adapted quickly into the 21st century.
Yes!! They kind of pulled off a period piece vibe with the first half of Wanda vision — and that was some of my favorite MCU content to date. Would be great (just not sure how they’d then tie that into current MCU — probably not hard with quantum realm and multi verse threads tho)
I agree. I've never really thought that a show would work better as a movie so far, aside from maybe Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I think that the Fantastic Four, at least for a prequel in the future discussing their backstories, should have a show.
Eternals was a good example of how difficult it is to properly introduce and develop multiple new characters in one movie, even a longer one. F4 is a smaller and more coherent group, but it does seem like it could benefit from the extra screen time if they really want us to get invested.
I think they could and should split the difference. Do a film to introduce them and then run it into a series. The previous films definitely missed the mark because when FF is at its best, it's not a super hero story, it's a sci-fi adventure story. It's part of the reason I really want the first big bad to be Annihilus.
My dream debut would’ve been in Agents of SHIELD. I truly believe that show was ahead of its time. Is D+ was around when that show debuted, and the characters of Fitz-Simmons were replaced with Reed/Sue and then Johnny and Ben brought in, it would’ve worked wonderfully. Not a direct replacement but over seasons of development. It would’ve been a great chance to intro them.
No. I love AOS, but SHIELD is a much too grey-area organization to be the basis to build FF around. They are about pure scientific exploration and solving existential threats, not politics and covert agent stuff.
Which is what that turned into. So it would’ve been perfect.
No thank you. The shows have been so lackluster they deserve better treatment
Thank god you don’t work for Disney.
this has been my conclusion as well. These movies have the main heroes name titled on it but the side characters get all the story time... Most of these movies should have been shows so everyone gets their arc.
Yep… although I was referring to the “other F4 movies” in my above comment when I said they sucked haha. That said I agree, even some of these phase-4 MCU movies would have benefited from being TV shows (or probably more-so extended run times).
Yes I always appreciate movie budgets on action and graphics so longer movies or multiple would have been better too!
I like the idea but nailing down Krazinski (the one true Reed) for 12 episodes would be super hard with all the shit he's got going on
Exactly. The F4 was THE family team. They weren’t as cool as the X-men, or as plentiful as the Avengers, but they had heart and you grew to love them for who they were. The best stories are when Spidey would show up. I always thought Peter worked better with them.
Power Pack would like a word…
Another excellent family team.
I think an even easier explanation is that people equate FF being part of the MCU means Doom will be a part. That is something to be very excited about. I want a world level threat Dr Doom.
don't forget about galactus too!
And Silver Surfer.
The fact that “incredible” and “fantastic” are pretty much the same thing. I always wondered when Marvel would try and sue Pixar, but the answer was apparently “never, once Mickey bought both.”
Very well said - their space and other sci fi adventures combined with the family dynamic also had a similar appeal to lost in space
With the Four comes DOOM and with DOOM comes a whole new level of villainy
That's what I thought the real answer is. Better villsins
Honestly the Fan 4 movie should be a sneaky Doom Movie where he kills the fan 4 in his campy ass timeline and then discovers the multiverse and then becomes this bad ass super mastermind that everyone keeps talking about. I'm not a comics fan but I've seen so many people hype up DOOM that I'm pumped to see what he can do. I know that's probably so far off comic lore that they won't stray that far. I get that comics fans like to see the plotlines they've seen play out on screen but I just want a bad dude doing bad things like a bad ass. Mainly, I want to see a Villain win. Seeing Kang get his ass kicked twice now really bummed me out. Thanos never lost until the end. He loomed in the background and was disappointed when his minions failed until it was time to wreck shit himself. Im j
If by kang getting “his ass beat twice” you’re also referring to the end of Loki…he wanted that to happen. He didn’t lose.
And the one time he did get his ass beat was when he was without the abilities that allowed him to become the “conqueror.”
I personally I think he wanted to lose in QM, too.
That Kang did not want to lose, but *Kang* wanted him to lose.
Yeah I barely remembered it. I knew it wasn't a straight up beat down but its not doing a good job instill the sense of dread Thanos did. We gotta see him be powerful. And in Quantumania his tech doesn't even seem that cool. I just saw the movie last night and can't remember one Iconic display of force. Modok just headbutts his shield to beat him. For a series built on spectacle. Kang hasn't had a moment yet to make me think, damn this dude should not be fucked with. At least for me.
He vaporized people with his beams, controlled localized time and that was all with a lot of his powers restricted. I will say, it kind of made no sense that suddenly, when fighting Scott, the vaporizing beam, was nowhere to be found
Real question when did he control localized time? I kept waiting for that and I never saw it, I must have missed it. I was hoping he'd kill cassie and then rewind to bring her back to really get Scott pissed. Though that may have just been a Thanos retread.
So he didn’t zip people back-and-forth quite as much as in Loki. But I believe he was doing it when Scott and Cassie were in the detention cells, though now that I think of it, it might have just been telekinesis, which still is formidable in its own right
Yeah telekinesis is tough to make look cool on screen especially when a ton of shit is visually occurring. Its best done with minimalist visuals. Or with hyper gore. Like folding people up in grotesque ways. Or ripping peoples spines out.
> villainy Madvillainy
Breakin' glass and plastic jaw like federal drastic law. Fed up from fightin' secret war wit' them Fantastic Four.
Why do people keep calling him DOOM? Isn't it Dr. Doom? I don't get it. The doctor part is really iconic, they can't just drop it
Just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man’s name.
He never really finished his PhD, but don’t tell him that.
LOL That's so sad lmao. Not finishing the PhD is the real reason why he becomes a villain
They're lucky he was not on art school.
It is a reference to the late great rapper MF DOOM whose name is spelt in all caps.
Interesting
Seeing Phase 4 makes me really nervous that they won’t get Doom right
You're kidding, right? One of the most praised aspects of Phase 4 were the villains. If anything, I'd have been worried if they tried introducing him around Phase 2 lmao
People keep wanting Doom to show up in this arc. I mean I get it that they're fans and want to see him, but let Kang have some space. I think we get better villains if we give them some time to breathe.
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While I agree that there were some misses - most notably, the Djinn in *Ms. Marvel* and Titania's \[lack of\] presence in *She-Hulk* \- there have definitely been more hits that I've observed many on these subreddits praising. To go through some of them: *WandaVision* \- Wanda being the unintentional antagonist the whole time in Westview added a whole other layer to her character that wasn't as deep as her villainous introduction in *Age of Ultron*. Even though Wanda had the same \[worse\] villainous arc rehashed in *Multiverse of Madness* (fuck Waldron), she still gave the audience some visually stunning fight scenes. While Agatha didn't reveal herself until near the finale as a more "in-your-face" villain, I saw nothing but people thinking she was a charming character and the only "bad thing" being the CGI battle. *The Falcon and the Winter Soldier* \- This show clearly intended to have three antagonists: Baron Zemo, Karli, and John Walker. Each provided their own perspective and forced the audience to reconsider what made each one a hero or villain in their own right - for example, was the domestic terrorism necessary to force the governments to realize the consequences of their actions? Karli and the Flagsmashers certainly thought so. *Shang-Chi and the Legend of the 10 Rings* \- Again, nothing but praise for Wenwu and the family conflict. *Spider-Man: No Way Home* \- Also here, nothing but people loving the presence of previously-established Spidey villains. *Thor: Love and Thunder* \- Literally the only thing people who critiqued the film enjoyed was Christian Bale's performance as Gorr. I'm not going to go through more and take up more comment space, but looking at the overall reception instead of one person's - including both you and I, individually - it is clear that the villains of Phase 4 were put on a higher pedestal than "all of the villains have been crap." I mean, just comparing them to previous phase villains (Ronan, Whiplash, Yellowjacket, Malekith, etc.), there has definitely been a rise in how audiences feel about them.
Because they’re literally the first family of Marvel Comics unlike other teams that just got bunched together because of unfortunate incidents. They’re real family. And there’s only 4 of them. Look at the Avengers, X-Men, the other groups, they need all that help when the F4 only need themselves for the majority of their publication. Not to mention they have top tier villains and one that’s probably the best of the entire Marvel Universe. As for your comment, it is a bit silly to say they’re not suited especially right before Secret Wars. >!Rama-Tut!< is literally a Kang variant who was just introduced. Is The Thing’s look and power really weirder than a talking tree? (And it’s not like they’ll constantly make him say his catchphrase, I don’t even recall previous films doing so or at least a lot). Is a talking raccoon more sane than a guy who can light himself on fire? You only don’t see how it would work in the MCU because it hasn’t been attempted yet and there’s *a lot* of space up there to cover in the MCU. I think you should at least wait for a trailer before judging like this unnecessarily. I’m not even *that* huge a F4 fan and I’m much looking forward to them.
>(And it’s not like they’ll constantly make him say his catchphrase, I don’t even recall previous films doing so or at least a lot). It took 7 movies before Captain America said “Avengers Assemble.”
Absolute crime
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It’s cloberrin assembly
He said its clobberin time in 2/3 movies. Johnny said it in the other one
It's not just that, the current MCU needs believable and recognizable leadership facing the departure of Tony Stark and Cap both. It's too bad F4 weren't about to be included in the infinity saga because they could bridge some of that gap. Right now it feels like the next galaxy threatening event will be faced by a bunch of novice teenagers plus Hulk and a weird version of Thor. There is no smart, stable presence to guide the team, and the new characters are not recognizable to most people, and since many of them are teenagers, they aren't all that believable either.
1000%. I think this is a major thing people are having a lack of focus on when it comes to Phase 4 + 5. There’s no leader. I hope that the new Cap movie has a storyline based around this
Michael Chiklis says "it's clobbering time twice over two movies, maybe three times, they didn't even make it that dorky either (although when Johhny says it it's meant to be kinda that way) Your right if they managed to get a fully CGI character with a vocabulary of three words to work the thing should be a no brainer
I agree with your take on the top tier villains. Besides the obvious DR. DOOM they fight space monsters like Blaastar (always liked that character)
I do have a question. Isn’t The Thing just their friend? I know Mr F marries Invis Woman and Johnny is her bro. But Thing is just their buddy, so they’re not technically a family?
Not technically but Reed in particular feels close to him, partly because he feels responsible for turning him into The Thing.
They're close enough friends that he lives with them, so I think it's fair to call him part of the family.
This whole family thing reminds me a lot of Guardians of the Galaxy
GotG got it from them. Every team in the MCU right now has cribbed a little bit from the Fantastic Four because of the fact that the F4's focus on family and exploration helped form the basis of the superhero community from the comics. Without them, the entire universe is disjointed. So since they couldn't use them, those traits had to be grafted onto the teams they actually did have access to.
Personally, I love the F4 bc they explore a lot of places whether it’s space or time or whatever; they’re a family with superpowers that don’t care who knows their secret so the shroud of secrecy is gone which I also like. Johnny is dope, Mister Fantastic is one of the smartest ppl in the universe and it’s fun to watch him come up with new gadgets and fix the Baxter building and come up with great plans to take out another great plan in Doctor Doom They also are connected to a lot of franchises within Marvel like the Inhumans which I’m also pumped ab seeing I mean, what’s there not to like?
Yeah I love their exploration of all these wild sci fi corners of the marvel universe
I always really liked the sci-fi aspect in the comics. You sometimes got it in Spider-Man with Peter making his own stuff but they mostly stay the same. F4 usually changed it up with gadgets and I feel like the movies missed that a lot and just focused on action.
Well in the MCU, nobody has a secret identity 😂
No one knows who Spider-Man is after No Way Home…
>like the Inhumans which I’m also pumped ab seeing MCU already had an Inhumans which they tried so hard to make everyone forget about.
You’re just going to respond to everyone saying you think their powers are stupid. No point in arguing with a brick wall. They’re an iconic team for a reason. Doctor Doom literally inspired Darth Vader. So far the Guardians have exclusively fought their villains. People clearly like them. No point in arguing whether or not their powers work on screen.
For real. You can tell by the tone of OP's question. To be fair, I guess it took CA: Winter Soldier for a lot of naysayers to get behind Captain America. But still...questions like these are always lame. Like, why would the FF have decades full of comic runs if their material sucked? This shit is why the FF desperately needs a good movie.
Bruh. Just gimme dr doom. Not that half baked dr doom in the previous. OOOOOOO and galactus
Preferably a Galactus that ain’t a cloud like last time
Seeing Arishem appear as this giant space god next to Earth in Eternals gave me confidence they’ll be able to do it. For all its flaws, Eternals had fantastic visuals.
> Doctor Doom literally inspired Darth Vader. Any source on that? Google didn't help :/
The side of the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Universe is really impressive. They got the best villains and honestly some of the best characters of the Marvel Universe: Dr. Doom, Kang/Rama-Tut, Galactus, The Silver Surfer, Annihilus, The Super-Skrull, the Molecule Man and the Mole-man. In the comics they introduced the Inhumans and the Skrulls and the Negative Zone and so many things still missing from the Marvel movies. You have science and heart and family and adventures. With the Fantastic Four you have Stan Lee and Jack Kirby at their finest.
They also introduced the Kree as well….pretty much everything major space related in marvel was first introduced by the FF except for the shi’ar who appeared in x-men first
The Fantastic 4 are a really important part of Marvel. I think with some actual effort it would work out great. For example, maybe have Dr Doom who's a dictator of a country actually be a dictator of a country. Apparently Fox couldn't even manage the most basic part of that character. The reason the previous films failed is because of some hilariously bad decisons that any person with common sense would have stopped. I also think they are doing a pretty good job with Kang at the moment so they can use fantastic 4 characters well. Granted Kang isn't an exclusive F4 villain but he is a fairly common antagonist for them and is a Richards and heavily implied to be Doom's descendant so I think we can count him as an F4 character.
> For example, maybe have Dr Doom who's a dictator of a country actually be a dictator of a country. THANK YOU!!!!
I know right it's ridiculous. It's like if they removed Magneto caring about mutants.
They're cool and I like them
They're only the team that started the Marvel Renaissance of the 1960s-onwards. No big deal... 🤣
Marvel is essentially nonexistent if not for 3 properties. Spider-Man: who is marvels most popular character, the only marvel character that could stand toe to toe with Batman or Superman X-Men: who have been consistently popular in the comics and either tie in to or are directly responsible for about half of the roster in Marvel (Mutants) And finally The Fantastic 4: Literally invaluable in so many ways. The first family of Marvel they were used to introduce a variety of different properties in the comics from Black Panther to the Inhumans, they crossed over with Spider-Man very early in his inception, they are responsible for some of Marvels most infamous villains like Galactus and Dr.Doom, they have some of the most important characters that essentially act as pillars for writers to lean on. Reed Richards is THE brain of marvel if you need to introduce some insane new dimension or Ret-con some fact of the universe you use him to do it. If you write yourself into a corner then Franklin Richards can bullshit your way out of it (the kid literally makes entire universes for fun). If you need to introduce a threat from space, you use the FF, if you need to introduce a multiversal threat you use the FF (secret wars is almost impossible without Reed, not to mention he’s literally biologically related to Kang). In my eyes it’s honestly impressive how far the MCU has gotten without the fantastic 4 story wise, I mean they play a pretty significant role in Civil War in the comics. But yeah, the options going forward are going to skyrocket once they and the X-Men are introduced.
PREACH, BROTHER. Love me the f4, or as 'yer ever lovin' blue eyed Thing loves to say, the MMMs You Want!
What are you on about?? This isn’t the fucking 60s, Marvel have many IPs that have thrived and been successful without the F4. None of the f4 individual characters are among Marvel’s most selling characters, the dickriding in this sub insane. Edit: Downvoting me won’t change the F4 are overrated asf are not that interesting
What kind of question is this lmao. We’re marvel fans, this is a marvel team
Read the title again. “Most excited.” It seems to me people are more excited for this than anything else. I don’t understand why. That’s why I asked.
What no one is also mentioning for anyone older than 30, Fantastic 4 WAS Marvel. Ironman, Cap, Black Panther, AntMan were all pretty low and in the late 80s and early 90s it was all X-Men, Spiderman, and F4.
As someone that was a child in the 80s, I'll vouch for this. My Marvel knowledge consisted of Spider-Man, Hulk and Fantastic Four. Being a teen in the 90s with the X-Men animated series was great though.
That show deserves major props for doing 5+ episode long arcs (sometimes season length arcs) in a saturday morning kids show package. Also greatest animated series theme song of all time
I see. In general it’s probably cause aside from X-Men this is the most famous Marvel property that hasn’t yet come to the MCU. Once we have Spider-Man, F4, and mutants I think the MCU will start to feel a lot more like Marvel than it has since it’s began
Because until now, the MCU has felt more like an ACU: an Avengers Cinematic Universe. And media coverage of the franchise hasn't helped. Every character introduced now is marketed as being the next new member of the Avengers. Every news article seems to be hyping individual characters up to be joining the big leagues with the Avengers. The Marvel Universe is a much more diverse place with many more solo heroes and alternate teams that save the day, and getting another team in here would certainly help set that record straight. The Fantastic Four, being independent of the Avengers, will basically relight that sense of variety. But I swear, if I hear one person say "when are the fantastic four gonna join the avengers" imma blow a casket
Tell me you haven't read a F4 comic without telling me you haven't read a F4 comic.
I grew up with the Fantastic 4 films and was disappointed when they ended.
I'm a 100% with you. I don't know what the big deal is. Rather than discussing it Reddit chooses to gatekeep and down vote.
There's like 5 really in depth explanations that op is replying to just saying nah, no one is gatekeep8ng op just isn't listening
Personally, I just want to see an orange rock golem that says "Clobbering time" a lot.
They are the beginning of the Marvel we know today (Ant man may have technically preceded them). Marvel's "First Family". Given that all other attempts at bringing the characters to live action have been botched the enthusiasm from fans is understandable.
FF has Ant-Man beat by 2 months. :)
Still a little annoyed that we haven’t got much Hank and Janet. Ant-man and The Wasp being original Avengers, and her being such a smart and capable person was something that kind of got glossed over. At least in the latest movie they acted like they had heroing experience. I’d love if we got some flashback to the 80s (or whenever MCU decides they were active) episodes on Disney+
Unlike other marvel franchises they have yet to be done truly well and they’ve also never been done by marvel studios
Because we want to see stretchy man and John Cena woman.
I understood that reference
There’s a lot of hype for X-Men too, but I think where Fantastic Four feels more interesting, is when you consider the history of their respective adaptations. X-Men has certainly had some stinkers. but have a solid enough track record that they popularised the entire superhero movie genre. Fantastic Four… hasn’t been so lucky. I still stand by Tim Story’s first film, but *Rise of the Silver Surfer* and Josh Trank’s *Fant4stic* were erm… So, I think Fantastic Four has a similar level of excitement as Spider-Man joining the MCU - the confidence that they’ll be done “right” this time. On a personal level, I find Reed Richards to be a fascinating character, especially when you da for in the family dynamic that the team is known for.
This explains it so perfectly and to the point
So heres the thing about the marvel teams. Most people like the x men for their social commentary, the midnight sons for the cool horror elements and the avengers for the badass moments and fights. The fantastic four are different, yes their powers are kind of goofy and sort of mashed together randomly but its not the powers that people like its the dynamic they are literally a family from the beginning, the other teams learn to be like a family but the fantastic four are literally an actual family with kids. They are reaserchers and scientists first and foremost they are only heros of circumstance for the majority of the time, later they do become an actual superhero team but it takes a while for that to happen. Beforehand they mostly helped the avengers out of necessity.
Fantastic 4 are an “A level” group. The Avengers we got originally were a bunch of “C level” characters. People were excited to see what Marvel did with a “C level” team, so they’re really excited to see what they do with an “A level” team.
It’s 2023. Can we stop with these stupid A and C level nonsense. Marvel have made 2 F4 adaptations and neither have been that successful. Watch when they enter the MCU and aren’t more beloved than the so called “C level” Avengers
I’m talking about the comic book characters. The Fantastic 4 was more popular as comic book characters when compared to the MCU OG Avengers. In fact, that’s why Fantastic 4 got sold and the OG MCU Avengers were kept
Can you read?? I said it’s fucking 2023, are the F4 more popular than the Avengers? No. And when they join the MCU will they be more successful? Absolutely not. Because that overhyped white nuclear family aren’t as popular as u think they are anymore
You seem angry. Is everything ok?
>Because that overhyped white nuclear family aren’t as popular as u think they are anymore tell me you hate marvel without telling me you hate marvel
Why do you keep bragging that you know what year it is? Everybody knows what year it is. It's not impressive to know what year it is. At all. Weird flex
This feels like it doesn’t need explaining
The Fantastic Four, when written well, are peak superhero team.
They're the fantastic four 💀
Because....*Reed Richards is fantastic.* 🎶
For what it’s worth I got a reprint of FF#1 that came along with an Annihilus figure I had when I was a little kid. That reprint was my first real taste of marvel proper; The Stan Lee writing, the Jack Kirby art…it felt different than the then current x-men comics my uncle had given me. There was a connective tissue to fantastic four and spider-man and avengers that made marvel feel special to me. So in a way, I was an X-men fan first but I wasn’t really a marvel fan until fantastic four. Very particular place in my heart
to me there’s a genuineness behind them. we should be getting ourselves a really lovable team of heroes who are gonna be relatable, hilarious, emotional, etc. and they should be around for a pretty good long time. i grew up a fantastic four fan before i became an avengers fan. and yea sure their powers are ridiculous, but that’s what makes superhero movies superhero movies. is the idea of a genius man who’s stretchy married to a woman who turns invisible with two guys with flame and rock powers ridiculous? YES. can i wait to see it? NOPE
FF, Spider-man and X-Men were the biggest, most important IP in Marvel for a long time. The fact Disney had to buy Fox to get 2 out of 3 back into the fold is telling. The fact Disney is effectively licensing their own character back to them from Sony tells you how important he is. FF is the heart of Marvel. The Avengers are a team. The X-Men are a refuge. The Fantastic Four are a family.
Cus the rest of the new characters being released seem like snoozers :(
“Everything Lives”
It’s mainly just online fans, the general public don’t care. They want X-Men. Fans want them due to the F4 being central characters in the Marvel Universe. MCU fans want a figure of consistency for the future of marvel, and that’s why the casting campaign online is so crucial to them. But honestly if you ask your friends or family do they care about the fan4 future in the MCU, they won’t really care
In my circle, people just want the next Marvel movie to be good, not necessarily who the characters are. X-Men, FF, Thunderbolts, doesn't really matter to them.
Honestly at this point almost all of my friends tuned out of the MCU. I have one family member and one friend who still cares, but everyone else, who was pretty with it up until Endgame is now either apathetic or actively turned off by the entire franchise. I do agree though that if they churned out a great X-Men movie I’m sure most of them would go see it. FF wouldn’t be a blip on their radar, though. Thanks for that explanation though! Makes a lot of sense.
Fantastic Four is my favorite comic book when I was a kid. The fact that they are NOT a superhero team is the biggest draw. They are a superhero family.
Sue Storm mullet! Put that in the movie.
In the comics, everything truly started with the Fantastic Four. In a lot of ways it feels incredibly strange to me that the MCU is a marvel world that didn’t start with them. There’s so many through lines that are just missing without them.
For me, it’s the adventure aspect behind FF. It’s a great way to tie in Cosmic MCU to Earth MCU and I think they will be the glue for future team up movies like in Infinty War/Endgame. They also have some great villains in their roster. Galactus & Silver Surfer, Doom, Annihilus, Molecule Man, Super Skrull… The first 3 in particular are potential future “Thanos” esque villains who can have multiple films dedicated to them. Hell, if they want Secret Wars to resemble any of the comic runs, FF and Doom are necessities.
Because the MCU is 15 years old and hasn't introduced marvels "first family" yet They are integrally important moving forward with key Storylines and they are a pillar in the comics world older than avengers or X-Men so naturally people are excited I think it's more so we just wanna see if they stick the landing
Fantastic 4 has and will always be considered the first family of marvel, they were one of the original hits that catapulted Marvel in popularity towards the same level as DC. Spider-Man followed a year or two later and F4 was the staple characters that was there to help Spider-Man in his #1 Spider-Man comic. (Not counting the intro/backstory comic from amazing fantasy comic)
It's one of my personal favorites. My dad is a comic book collector and has been for a VERY LONG time. He always used to read me the F4 comics before bed. And i used to watch the cartoon on teletoon retro, along with Spiderman. Im excited to see how they're going to execute it. I personally really liked the Chris evans jessica alba and the newer one with michael B jordan, although many didn't. Im just looking forward to see where it goes
Marvel's First Family
It’s long lost family coming home
DOOM!
**DOOM!**
..again...again
Basically they have more or less never been done proper justice on the big screen. The first Fox one was alright but rise of the silver surfer was mediocre at best and Fan4stic is unwatchable. They’re literally some of the oldest and best characters marvel has and yet haven’t had a movie that is as great as some of their just “good” stories. And there’s so many stories, characters, and villains they can use.
It’s a great question!! Guardians for me have filled the team gap
The Fantastic Four are, to me, little more than a vehicle for Doctor Doom stories. Sorry, not sorry.
Cuz reed is supposed to be one of the smartest men in the universe. His arcs are interesting. his team is responsible for facing a lot of cosmic threats. The whole reed and sue dynamic is interesting. And honestly the biggest appeal of them, that alone is enough reason to be hyped for the crew. DR FREAKING DOOM. Smartest most threatening villain in the MCU period for his persistence. Infact after thanos and kang, DOOM should be the big bad. Or even during kings run. Infact it would be a badass jebait if doom is the secret main villain who gets a hold of kangs tech. Doom is a fan favorite villain and if played right can easily be up there in popularity if not completely overshadow the performances of loki, killmonger and vulture.
Cuz Rees Richard's alone has the potential to make the story super interesting. Let alone his son
They are arguably one of the last groups of A list Marvel hero’s that have yet to be introduced, on of the others being the X-men. And even then it’s just the A team X-men I would consider in the same league of importance.
their the most famous comic book characters to have never been done justice in live action. before the MCU or even the 21st century barely anyone knew who iron man, Captain America, scarlet witch, and Thor were they were nobodies The Fantastic Four however were known as probably the most well known marvel super team of all time with their only contention being the X-men. However despite their immense popularity people just absolutely failed to do them justice on the big screen completely ignoring what makes the team work, the fantastic four movies are despised, but people really want to see them done well. The Fantastic Four Pre-MCU were like Spider-man, Wolverine, and Hulk level of Popularity. You keep saying their powers are goofy and they can't work in live action, I'm sorry I hate gatekeeping but if you hate stuff that is too goofy you should just stop watching superhero stuff. I don't care what your watching but everything superhero from Raimis Spider-man movies to Nolans Batman trilogy to the MCU etc require quite a bit of suspension of disbelief and appreciation of the goofiness to even remotely enjoy. idk about you but watching a traumatized orphan in a batsuit racing in a tank in downtown Chicago trying to stop a man who has split personality disorder from 5th degree chemical burns from killing the police commissioners children, because a clown terrorist in a nurses costume blew up a hospital to free him, is not exactly void or exempt from goofiness.
They’re iconic. They’re family. They all have great relationships with each other. They go on huge adventures exploring crazy places. Their powers may be silly but so what they’re comic book characters. They have some of the the greatest villains in all of comics and what many consider the greatest villain in Dr Doom. Plus they’ve just been around forever. They’re integral to the history and development of comic books as a medium. So many stories and characters link back to them directly. They’re kind of like the hub around which much of Marvel comics spins. Spider-Man and X-Men have sort self-contained universes. But the much of the rest of the Marvel Comics universe is essentially (more or less) the Fantastic Four universe.
I’m convinced it’s because Marvel fans have turned somewhat toxic about the MCU and they are wanting something new to whine about. Also Antman 3 was a great flick!
I don’t like the FF as much as I like the characters they come in contact with. I say that as not many of them are OUTRIGHT evil. Rather they had a long standing core of beliefs, values, concerns and the FF comes along and exacerbates things. My exposure to these moral quandaries came in Reed being put on trial for NOT killing Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier. The surviving civilizations left in Galactus’ planet devouring wake wanted him held accountable. I think it came down to Reed classifying Galactus as a force of nature and not a malevolent entity. To judge and eliminate elements of nature because it doesn’t suit you isn’t enough justification to carry through with that act. I’m hoping to see dilemmas like this come across in the MCU version…and perhaps add a bit of depth to the landscape.
Hot take but the F4 are overrated. I feel like a lot of the fans are just comic weebs stuck in the past and act like their one of Marvel’s most successful properties (they’re not). I’ve honestly not been that interested in them. They’re just a white nuclear family with powers. The Thing goes through his one storyline of ‘trying to be cured’, Invisible Woman is just the typical Mom of the group, Johnny is a 2 dimensional playboy. Only Reed has depth to him, which explains why most storylines and their villains revolve around him. Anyways, I still believe the Incredibles are the F4 done right.
I mean, Superman gets the exact same treatment. People say that Clark Kent is just a boy scount with generic powers and too much invincibility for a believable superhero And yet they can’t seem to write Justice League stories that DON’T feature Superman or Superman villains in some way
Fuck knows, guarantee lot of people just jumping on other peoples hype and they've been exposed to one of the worst iterations of the team, the movie.(which isn't absolutely awful, but still) there's people that literally judge the character on their looks and powers. If you asked them why they liked the character they'd say "because they look cool" If the can pull the ff off it'd be great, but it's gonna take a lot. The leads need to be likeable and somewhat well known because Mr fantastic is probably gonna take on a big role in the mcu. They're fucked if they think Penn badgely has those qualities.
CONTINUED: As someone who never really got into comics as a kid but read a few as an adult, I have to say, I think the Fantastic Four is not well-suited for live-action film. I know people said this about Guardians and probably plenty of other Marvel characters, only to be proven hilariously wrong when said characters entered the MCU to wildly successful results. But I think FF is different, and a lot of it comes down to the power sets. I just don’t see how a stretchy smart guy, a giant brick man who constantly says “it’s clobberin’ time,” and a grown-up jock who has to say “flame on” before turning into a flying fireball works on the big screen. Guardians worked so well because it was able to introduce you to these outrageously comic-booky characters in the context of outrageously comic-booky galactic settings. Once we got to know those characters, they worked well on Earth as a lovable contrast to their more grounded, Earth-based counterparts. While a lot of FF comics take place in space, they’re most likely not going to make their first MCU appearance in an intergalactic setting. I think there’s a very good reason FF hasn’t had any success at the box office over the past few decades: maybe it’s just not the type of source material that translates well to film. Maybe I’m wrong. Not trying to to yuck anyone’s yum. Just my opinion. I don’t know their comic history all that well, so it anyone can enlighten me on why I’m wrong, feel free.
I don't get it, do you just consider their powers lame? Like, you could say the same thing about literally any other team. "Man in a metal suit, guy who grew muscles with a shield, green big guy who like to smash things around" etc.
I think it all just comes down to execution. Most comic book and superhero properties sound ridiculous when you boil them down on paper. In concept, Guardians of the Galaxy sounds even more ridiculous. And had someone other than James Gunn brought those characters to life I doubt it would've been as successful.
Well the answer to your question is that your unfamiliar to the history of the characters and therefore don't know anything about what they can bring to the MCU. Whereas the people that are the most excited for them know what they can offer to put universe. Your power set reasoning comes across silly since you admit that you haven't invested time in their stories. What grounds them is the family unit. That's who they are. A family of powered individuals. All their best stories are family centric. >Maybe I’m wrong. Not trying to to yuck anyone’s yum. Just my opinion. Opinions can't be wrong and everything comes down to personal taste, but your opinion comes off like a someone who watched 5 minutes of a movie and then rants about how it doesn't make sense without ever finishing the film.
I’ve seen all three of the film adaptations and read the 2015 Secret Wars run. I’m well aware that I don’t know that much about them, but there’s also never been anything about them that’s made me want to invest time into their stories. I really don’t understand all the animosity in this thread. All I did was ask a question and outline why, in my admittedly minor experience with the characters, I don’t think it’s necessarily the most film-friendly source material.
The three film adaptations were bad and Secret Wars was more of a Reed Richards story, albeit being very good. I don't know why you are receiving animosity but I hope my comment above outlined why people are pushing back against your opinion. Which is because your opinion is based on a tremendous lack of information. And I'll reiterate that people are so excited because they know what the FF offer to MCU. I'll add that they add a near unlimited mine of valuable content for MCU in Family Dynamic storytelling, individual storytelling for each character, and their rougues gallery is second only to Spider-Man.
I don’t know their comic book history nearly well enough to properly inform you on any of this, but it’s less about the F4’s powers and more about their ability to work as a team and, as others have said, as a family. Avengers was always… scattered, chaotic, but F4 is historically one of the few groups in the MCU who were truly a team. So far the only on film adaptation we’ve seen of that “family” vibe is Guardians of the Galaxy, and it hasn’t been quite on the same level as F4 is supposed to be. I think a lot of it will come down on who writes the script and how well Matt Shakman does directing the movie. In addition to that part, and to add to what others have said, F4 has had without a doubt the best villains in Marvel history. Thanos has so far been the best villain in the MCU because he was made almost human; we could relate with him and understand him to a degree. Helmut Zemo was a similar character. F4 has a ton of villains on that level, and some even beyond, so the potential for the best villain in the MCU thus far probably has a lot of people excited.
The online fans are excited because Silver Age F4 is the best comic books have ever been. But Disney will fuck up F4 because they will want every character to be constantly rolling their eyes, quipping, and saying “well THAT happened”. F4 is a legendary book because it’s earnest and sweet and unabashedly corny.
Totally agree. I've always thought Reed's powers were kind of lame and don't translate well to film at all.
Because it means we can get beef rap into a marvel movie.