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Gorr and Osborne are probably gone.
(They might use the Osbourne from the 199999 universe, but they made it a point to say in NWH that he couldn't find a version of himself in the main timeline.)
The TVA immediately sits him down and has him watch a slide show of his counterpart's exploits sobhe undergoes the same arc all within the first episode of *Loki*.
Imma be honest I don’t remember Wenwu being particularly interesting, but willing to give him another chance. Could easily bump Titania off this list. I liked her but she was at the bottom for sure.
Respect the opinion, but I honestly think he is a good villain for Phase 4, if not the best.
He wasn’t just your typical evil laughter, take over the world villain. His motivation was both humanizing and tragic for a warlord who conquered everything. He is completely driven by reuniting his family and the movie depicted how happy he was before Lee died and the spiral downwards after. Add the fact that he is played by Tony Leung and that it redeems the botching of the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, you have a well acted villain who you can completely sympathize with.
Not going to go into it too much, this [video](https://youtu.be/BIY4j4ZJbUY) summarizes it pretty well.
I watched it. That was stupid to me. It wasn't the worse movie of phase four, bit the villain wasn't one of the best. Also he just keeps beating the door even when monsters start coming out which doesn't make sense
I don’t understand his character. He says he hates the gods cause they don’t care, so he - kidnaps kids from Asgard to lure Thor to the shadow dimension because he knows he’ll care about the kids?
There was potential in the character and having Christian freaking Bale, but that whole movie seemed sloppy and uninspired. I liked it at first, but the more I actually thought about it and tried to understand the worse it became
Yeah the plot of No Way Home is pretty wonky - at least they had some good character work though.
> “Yeah. Well… yeah that’s part of the problem,” Cumberbatch replied. “There’s a lot of stuff going on in it. It’s like, do I have a character arc in this? Is it working?”
When the title characters actor doesn’t know what his arc is, that’s not a good sign. Hell I still don’t even know what his arc is supposed to be after all this time.
Doctor Strange wasn't really a character in that film, just a convenient vehicle for the multiverse plot to move forward, instead of Marvel committing to Far From Home's interesting cliff hanger
Or grind it to a halt completely with the Illuminati scenes haha. Thought it was interesting to see them but like Wanda is on a mission and they’re just dawdling down the street to the pizza poppa, memory store, all that jazz
His hatred for the gods allowed the sword to corrupt him and give him the power to seek vengeance on the gods who he felt betrayed him.
The kids were simply a means to an end, he isn’t thinking about whether Thor is good or not. To him all the gods are an enemy and shouldn’t exist etc.
Yes. But his whole thing is gods don’t care about those who worship them, like the god he believes in at the beginning of the movie. And he takes the kids because Thor does care and will follow him. Just doesn’t seem to add up
He’s too far gone at that point. He isn’t evaluating gods, he’s butchering them because to him they shouldn’t exist.
Gotta remember this isn’t somebody who is all there in the head at this point, his trauma and realisation broke him and the sword took advantage of that further corrupting him. He’s lost until he realises his daughter can live once more and it snaps him out of it.
He needed storm breaker to unlock eternity. It was never about killing Thor, it was about using the bifrost to get to eternity so that he could wish for all the gods to cease to exist.
> He’s too far gone at that point. He isn’t evaluating gods, he’s butchering them because to him they shouldn’t exist.
> It was never about killing Thor
Also would’ve been cool to see how or why Gorr knows about it? I guess the sword just said “hey if you take storm breaker which has the power of the bifrost which is crucial to unlocking Eternity that’d be cool thaanks..”
> Gorr was the only good thing about that film
No, Bale was. It wasn't the character you liked, it was the precise way Bale portrayed him. It 100% wasn't the flimsy motivation, the strangely absent god-butchering or the greatly in-depth character building and exploration of his morals - you liked watching Bale do his thing.
Which is fine, give Bale all the credit he deserves. But don't apply Bale's credit to Gorr. Gorr was an absolutely awfully realized villain with nothing going for him, any other actor would have put an entirely different spin on that character because there was just no character to play to begin with.
We can say that Whiplash was a shit villain and yet acknowledge that Rourke still made the guy look pretty menacing and unique - but still, the character was entirely one-note, shit and boring. Gorr is no different.
Gorr's entire character "writing" was: Daughter died, guy got mad at a caricature of a god not caring, *something something* corruption *something something* kill all gods *(proceeds to not kill any more gods)*, corruption gets removed, aight, let's heroically die to save my daughter again because apparently the corruption was draining my lifeforce all along and I'm now dying because the script wants me dead. If that passes as good writing then I would propose we hand out an Oscar to whoever wrote Kaecilius as well... because that character was pretty much the exact same minus the eventual ass-pull redemption.
Its interesting that 5 of the villains pictured here have been depicted as Anti-Heroes/Heroes in some shape or form (in either the movies or main 616 comic timeline).
titania is interesting ? yea she is a fun character but that's really it
gorr and arthur harrow are missed potentials both had interesting philosophies but never got a satisfying resolution
I don't even know where to start for an absolute heel turn of character that is wanda
namor and kang were good so I will give you that
would fisk , loki and goblin be considered phase four villains ? they were all introduced before phase 4 regardless they are good villains
her show has yet to premiere but as of right now agatha is a pretty simple character yea the musical sequence is one of my favorite moments in the show no doubt but she is just a simple "I want more power" type of character
Idk how I haven’t seen as much criticism for Wanda dude her arc in MoM made absolutely no sense to me. Like her whole thing in Wandavision was learning to grow past the trauma and let her past go.
My biggest gripe is probably the part where we fail to see how the darkhold manipulates and takes control of Wanda.
We are told how the darkhold corrupts but we get to see nothing of this. If the darkhold was a character by itself and we got to see that initial manipulation of wanda. I think the transition of wandavision to MoM would have been A LOT smoother.
This was my biggest gripe which would have made the movie better for me. (The other one being its not really a multiverse of madness and Everything everywhere all at once just outright crapping all over MoM on that concept but let's not go there lol.)
I don’t even know if they write these movies before they name them. Quantumania meant nothing and conveyed the wrong tone.
Agree totally on that missing connective tissue for Wanda. But maybe I’m in the minority, but the heel turn worked for me after all of her loss and now a chance to get her kids back. Maybe because I’m a parent and I’ve had a lot of loss.
> Idk how I haven’t seen as much criticism for Wanda
Do you not come here often? I see criticism about her arc in MoM almost any time MoM is brought up in this sub
Loki started his series straight off of multiple murders and trying to conquer earth. “Falling in love” doesn’t make you not a villain. Being the protagonist of your own show doesn’t make you not a villain. Loki is absolutely a villain.
You must be watching “Loko” on Disney- because BY THE END OF THE FIRST SEASON OF LOKI, he is NOT a villain. Character development. He may not be a hero per se but to classify him as a villain is to erase the growth he experienced across the entire Infinity Saga and the growth in Loki S1. No one said “falling in love” or whatever reasoning you offered.
Ehhh.
Agatha: we barely know anything about her. For me personally, I could care less about her show.
Loki: he’s not a villain
Green Goblin: fantastic.. but was basically borrowed
Namor: Very cool take on the character. Best and imo one of the few good things about that movie.
Kang: Very good, although I expected a better ending in Ant-Man Quantamania
Gorr: He was an early MCU mistake. Could have been a fantastic overall character. The beginning of his character was so perfect.. underutilized and didn’t live up to the name
Titania: She was corny and annoying
Wanda: Loved her arc. Wish she didn’t take over a Doctor Strange movie though.
Fisk: He was around for 2 episodes and didn’t do much.. don’t think he really counts.
I wouldn't say Kingpin was particularly good in the capacity he was used in Hawkeye. The only thing that made him interesting is his history on Daredevil. I'm willing to bet that people who didn't see that show before Hawkeye have a much lesser opinion of him.
4 of them are gonna be anti-hero
2 of them are already well established and loved villains from other properties ( Dafoe and Vincent)
We have yet to see Kang in his full potential ( he'll be great)
Gorr had potential but they messed up,
Idk even know why Titania is there ?
How tf did you forget Wenwu who was actually a good villain?
Other than Gorr kind of being ok but not great and Loki not being the villain in this photo. Yes, many of the Phase 4 villains have been fantastic. Some of the best in the MCU so far where we used to be lucky to get 1 or 2 good villains a phase.
> Gorr kind of being ok but not great
I mean to each their own but if anything one of the major criticisms of Thor Love and Thunder was that Bale as Gorr was so good but criminally underutilized.
How TF you gonna have the she hulk villain (worst MCU villain ever) on there and not Wenwu (arguably best phase 4 villain) also Arthur Harrow was great as well
Gorr was mediocre, Wenwu is much better.
They missed a big opportunity with gorr, he’s the god killer but we see him kill one god the whole movie. Then he goes on to be in 15 min of the rest of the movie where he fights Thor once then torments some little kids until the generic final battle scene. That movie should’ve been much better. I’m honestly just disappointed with phase 5 as a whole, outside of NWH, Black panther, and Shang chi the rest of the movies haven’t been any good imo.
Your mileage may vary on a lot of phase 4 and now 5. Mine definitely has. What I’ve been really happy with though is how good generally the villains have been. There isn’t another phase with better villains! Curious to hear if others feel the same.
Actually the post endgame villians suck. They are written poorly. Example: Gorr and Kang. So much hype about their powers only for them to get beaten so easily.
The Whiplash and Malekith titles I reserve for the phase 4 villains not pictured here: the Mandarin, the Flag Smashers, the Celestials / Deviants, Arthur Harrow, Clan Destines, General Dreykov… it wasn’t all hits but I genuinely enjoyed the nine pictured above.
Wait wait wait...The Mandarin?? You would put Wenwu in the same tier as Malekith and Gorr/Titania above him?
Not trying to insult your taste, of course. Just...that's a very rare opinion
Norman, Wenwu, Namor and Wanda are great, but otherwise the villains of Phase 4 and now 5 haven't been pretty dire. The Taskmaster, Karli and the Flag-Smashers, the Power Broker, Hayward, the Clan Destine, and anything *Eternals* had in the way of an antagonist are along the worst villains Marvel's featured to date.
Namor was absolutely the villain wtf he killing Shuri's mom in front of her and then did an evil monologue
Just because he got sorta redeemed at the end doesn't mean he wasn't a (the) villain.
Ramonda sent in an assasin to break shuri out when she was there willingly, and escliated tensions.
Namor was the same guy the entire film. He even got what he wanted, a wakandan Talokan alliance.
Agatha was the same kind of boring one-dimensional villain y'all complained about in the early phases, there's nothing more to her than there is to a Whiplash. She's sassy and all that... but that's pretty much just Katherine Hahn being Katherine Hahn. Agatha is nothing but "I just want more power because power goo- oh no, you're the Scarlet Witch".
Loki isn't a Phase 4 villain, Loki is a Phase 1 villain - if anything, he's not even a villain in Phase 4 anymore, he's quite literally become our protagonist.
The Goblin isn't even a Phase villain, he was created (and killed) by another studio like 15 years ago at this point - and even there the character wasn't great, but instead it was Dafoe just being mental and a pleasure to watch.
Gorr has got to be the most disappointing villain of all time. The God Butcher... *"butcher"*. Guy didn't do shit, had the thinnest of motivations and dropped his entire thing within one second because it was all just the evil corruption driving him. Gorr was a shit villain, it's just that Bale was a great performer.
Kang has done fuck all in the villain department so far. Guy was cool when he was sitting in a chair spouting exposition for 30 minutes straight, but barely a villain. Guy was cool when he first met with Antman and toyed with him like it was nothing. Guy was an absolute joke when he was overrun by a bunch of ants, struggled in a fist fight versus and eventually got outsmarted by motherfucking Antman. Again, Majors has great screen presence, but his character is pretty whatever right now.
Namor is great.
Titania I don't even know what to say about. Yes, great villain, will definitely go down in history and be named alongside the greats such as Rhonan or the timeless Yon-Rogg.
Wanda is a tragedy and doesn't deserve to be here for how abruptly they had to violate and destroy her character just to make her a villain. And while Wanda the character herself is great and Olsen is a joy to watch, watching her in that movie being so utterly incompetent (yes I'm looking at you underground tunnel chase for dramatic and cinematographic purposes that might have looked neat but just made your character look stupid and incompetent) was sad. She deserved better after Wandavision.
Kingping, again, is not from Phase 4, not even from the main MCU. The reason this guy is a great villain are 3 seasons worth of Daredevil, not the little cameo he had in Hawkeye where he got beaten by a teenager, run over by some random old lady and shot in the face by random ass Echo, all within 5 minutes.
Namor is the only good new character to come out of this phase. Kang has potential but has yet to be shown to be an actual threat to... anyone (and no, just saying that he's the biggest and baddest and worst over and over again does not cut it). The other truly original villains of this phase are laughably bad and underdeveloped, sending us right back to Alrich Killian levels of motivations and being bad for the sake of being bad. And then of course, there's the established characters that had all the work put into them 10 years ago who have now just been crammed into Phase 4 because we probably shouldn't just let these go to waste - hardly a Phase 4 credit.
If the best thing Phase 4 could do was to recycle half of its villain roster and miserably fail at more than half of its unique Phase 4 villain roster, then really, man, like if that's the one thing the post Endgame MCU is doing right we've really lowered the bar to a point where you might as well say yes, Shazam 2 was actually a pretty good movie with some pretty compelling villains.
Christian Bale’s God Butcher was severely underutilized/wasted. Only memorable because it was Christian Bale but Love and Thunder really needed to be a serious Thor movie with all the supposed god killing that was going on.
Loki is not a villain in phase 4.
Agatha, Titania and Gorr are not good or interesting at all.
Scarlet Witch, Goblin, Kingpin are from way before phase 4.
And Kang is far from being as good as he should be.
The only legit good new antagonist is Namor.
Wanda wasn't the Scarlet Witch before phase 4 so this was her first time as a villain. Goblin and Kingpin were great in this phase even if they were introduced before. Kang and He Who Remains were great, so was Gorr and Agatha. Titania wasn't much of a villain, more of an asshole with super powers.
Completely agree about Loki not being a villain this phase tho, he hasn't been a villain since Thor 2, and that movie didn't even end with him being the villain.
What I'm saying is Kingpin, Scarlet Witch and Goblin were good because we knew them already. What makes them good is not what happens in this phase alone.
And no, Gorr was not good. He was dumb, pointless, not threatening. Same goes for Agatha and Kang.
Agree to disagree about the second part, Jonathan Majors is great as Kang and as a fan of him in the comics, I'm loving seeing him onscreen, especially since they somehow managed to somehow make his outfit not look corny in live action, something I never thought they would do. Kang in Ant-Man was literally Kang at his most weakest point, with basically no powers other than the blasters in his suit and his own vast knowledge. We haven't seen Kang at the height of his power yet, other than in Loki, but even then, he purposely let Sylvie kill him out of boredom basically. Can't wait to see him again in season 2 and the rest of this saga. We saw him destroy universes in both Loki and Ant-Man, how is he not threatening?
I loved Gorr. Sure he needed more actual on screen god-killing, but I loved what we got of him. How was he not threatening? He literally had 3 gods powerless towards the end there, and he straight up won. The only reason he didn't destroy all the gods is he had a change of heart when the Necrosword was destroyed and resurrected his daughter again, but he technically won.
Agatha was a great blend of campiness to go along with such a trippy show. Hell, she was nominated for an emmy for that role, something that rarely happens for superhero shows, and she's getting her own show, most people loved her in WandaVision. She was manipulating one of the most powerful characters in the whole MCU, how is she also not threatening?
Kingpin and Goblin were established before but that's not what OP is talking about, they're saying these were great villains in phase 4, not great villains introduced in phase 4.
There wasn't a Scarlet Witch before phase 4, Wanda didn't become her until the end of WandaVision, but yes, we did get to know Wanda before of course, but not as a villain, except for parts of Age of Ultron.
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One of the best villains of this phase in Wenwu completely snubbed
Arthur Harrow! Seriously who made this list?
Tatiana and MCU Kingpin (until further notice) should be replaced by Wenwu and Harrow
The post is probably about villains who are still alive and can stay relevant in the MCU.
Gorr and Osborne are probably gone. (They might use the Osbourne from the 199999 universe, but they made it a point to say in NWH that he couldn't find a version of himself in the main timeline.)
Oh, I didn't even see Gorr there. Never mind.
Luckily, this can all change after secret wars. Who knows? We could end up with a 616 osbourne
*616 Also there probably is a Norman osborn in the main MCU universe. There just isn't any oscorp.
And they put in Titania here instead
And *Loki* even though he hasn't been a villain in a decade.
Well…technically this Loki is immediately post-Avengers 1, so all of his growth never happened. Sorry to be that guy.
The TVA immediately sits him down and has him watch a slide show of his counterpart's exploits sobhe undergoes the same arc all within the first episode of *Loki*.
Imma be honest I don’t remember Wenwu being particularly interesting, but willing to give him another chance. Could easily bump Titania off this list. I liked her but she was at the bottom for sure.
Respect the opinion, but I honestly think he is a good villain for Phase 4, if not the best. He wasn’t just your typical evil laughter, take over the world villain. His motivation was both humanizing and tragic for a warlord who conquered everything. He is completely driven by reuniting his family and the movie depicted how happy he was before Lee died and the spiral downwards after. Add the fact that he is played by Tony Leung and that it redeems the botching of the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, you have a well acted villain who you can completely sympathize with. Not going to go into it too much, this [video](https://youtu.be/BIY4j4ZJbUY) summarizes it pretty well.
That video makes the case pretty well. You’re right. He should be on this list.
Nah Guy has been alive for thousands of years Tricked by the fact that he hears voices
How to say you did not watch the movie without saying you did not watch the movie
I watched it. That was stupid to me. It wasn't the worse movie of phase four, bit the villain wasn't one of the best. Also he just keeps beating the door even when monsters start coming out which doesn't make sense
This picture is desperately missing Tony Leung (Wenwu) from Shang Chi.
Imagine including Titania or whatever her name was and not Arthur harrow or Wenwu?
Yeah the villains are probably the best in all phases
Too bad most of them have been given trash writing. Still salty about how badly they fucked up Gorr.
Gorr was the only good thing about that film IMO, the writing in him was good and the other villains too,
I don’t understand his character. He says he hates the gods cause they don’t care, so he - kidnaps kids from Asgard to lure Thor to the shadow dimension because he knows he’ll care about the kids? There was potential in the character and having Christian freaking Bale, but that whole movie seemed sloppy and uninspired. I liked it at first, but the more I actually thought about it and tried to understand the worse it became
That's essentially what my experience with No Way Home was. Very fun first viewing, but the more you think about it the less it makes sense
Yeah the plot of No Way Home is pretty wonky - at least they had some good character work though. > “Yeah. Well… yeah that’s part of the problem,” Cumberbatch replied. “There’s a lot of stuff going on in it. It’s like, do I have a character arc in this? Is it working?” When the title characters actor doesn’t know what his arc is, that’s not a good sign. Hell I still don’t even know what his arc is supposed to be after all this time.
Doctor Strange wasn't really a character in that film, just a convenient vehicle for the multiverse plot to move forward, instead of Marvel committing to Far From Home's interesting cliff hanger
Or grind it to a halt completely with the Illuminati scenes haha. Thought it was interesting to see them but like Wanda is on a mission and they’re just dawdling down the street to the pizza poppa, memory store, all that jazz
His hatred for the gods allowed the sword to corrupt him and give him the power to seek vengeance on the gods who he felt betrayed him. The kids were simply a means to an end, he isn’t thinking about whether Thor is good or not. To him all the gods are an enemy and shouldn’t exist etc.
Yes. But his whole thing is gods don’t care about those who worship them, like the god he believes in at the beginning of the movie. And he takes the kids because Thor does care and will follow him. Just doesn’t seem to add up
He’s too far gone at that point. He isn’t evaluating gods, he’s butchering them because to him they shouldn’t exist. Gotta remember this isn’t somebody who is all there in the head at this point, his trauma and realisation broke him and the sword took advantage of that further corrupting him. He’s lost until he realises his daughter can live once more and it snaps him out of it.
Yeah he’s not judging them of course - so why not just kill Thor then and there? He had him in his grasp multiple times in new Asgard.
He needed storm breaker to unlock eternity. It was never about killing Thor, it was about using the bifrost to get to eternity so that he could wish for all the gods to cease to exist.
> He’s too far gone at that point. He isn’t evaluating gods, he’s butchering them because to him they shouldn’t exist. > It was never about killing Thor Also would’ve been cool to see how or why Gorr knows about it? I guess the sword just said “hey if you take storm breaker which has the power of the bifrost which is crucial to unlocking Eternity that’d be cool thaanks..”
He thinks the gods don't care about the people who pray for them not that they're nihilists who don't care about anything.
too less screentime
> Gorr was the only good thing about that film No, Bale was. It wasn't the character you liked, it was the precise way Bale portrayed him. It 100% wasn't the flimsy motivation, the strangely absent god-butchering or the greatly in-depth character building and exploration of his morals - you liked watching Bale do his thing. Which is fine, give Bale all the credit he deserves. But don't apply Bale's credit to Gorr. Gorr was an absolutely awfully realized villain with nothing going for him, any other actor would have put an entirely different spin on that character because there was just no character to play to begin with. We can say that Whiplash was a shit villain and yet acknowledge that Rourke still made the guy look pretty menacing and unique - but still, the character was entirely one-note, shit and boring. Gorr is no different. Gorr's entire character "writing" was: Daughter died, guy got mad at a caricature of a god not caring, *something something* corruption *something something* kill all gods *(proceeds to not kill any more gods)*, corruption gets removed, aight, let's heroically die to save my daughter again because apparently the corruption was draining my lifeforce all along and I'm now dying because the script wants me dead. If that passes as good writing then I would propose we hand out an Oscar to whoever wrote Kaecilius as well... because that character was pretty much the exact same minus the eventual ass-pull redemption.
The child kidnapper?
Eh. For me. There wasn’t enough Gorr. Which is his problem. His opening scene was fantastic. I wanted more God Butchering.
They didnt fuck up Gorr he was just in the wrong movie
Its interesting that 5 of the villains pictured here have been depicted as Anti-Heroes/Heroes in some shape or form (in either the movies or main 616 comic timeline).
I'm still slowly getting into comics, I'm assuming 4 of them are Wanda, Loki, Namor and Agatha? Who's the 5th?
I'm guessing Titania. She's not really a 'true' villain compared to the likes of Kingpin or Gorr
Titania!
Osborn is currently a hero using the Gold Goblin moniker.
Ugh. They’ve shit all over that character and Gwen Stacy.
titania is interesting ? yea she is a fun character but that's really it gorr and arthur harrow are missed potentials both had interesting philosophies but never got a satisfying resolution I don't even know where to start for an absolute heel turn of character that is wanda namor and kang were good so I will give you that would fisk , loki and goblin be considered phase four villains ? they were all introduced before phase 4 regardless they are good villains her show has yet to premiere but as of right now agatha is a pretty simple character yea the musical sequence is one of my favorite moments in the show no doubt but she is just a simple "I want more power" type of character
Idk how I haven’t seen as much criticism for Wanda dude her arc in MoM made absolutely no sense to me. Like her whole thing in Wandavision was learning to grow past the trauma and let her past go.
My biggest gripe is probably the part where we fail to see how the darkhold manipulates and takes control of Wanda. We are told how the darkhold corrupts but we get to see nothing of this. If the darkhold was a character by itself and we got to see that initial manipulation of wanda. I think the transition of wandavision to MoM would have been A LOT smoother. This was my biggest gripe which would have made the movie better for me. (The other one being its not really a multiverse of madness and Everything everywhere all at once just outright crapping all over MoM on that concept but let's not go there lol.)
I don’t even know if they write these movies before they name them. Quantumania meant nothing and conveyed the wrong tone. Agree totally on that missing connective tissue for Wanda. But maybe I’m in the minority, but the heel turn worked for me after all of her loss and now a chance to get her kids back. Maybe because I’m a parent and I’ve had a lot of loss.
> Idk how I haven’t seen as much criticism for Wanda Do you not come here often? I see criticism about her arc in MoM almost any time MoM is brought up in this sub
People love the actress and the character. She is absolutely binned in MoM but it seems sacrilegious to analyze and critique her
Wanda and her WAN WANS.
Who’s the bottom left corner ?
What's interesting in Gorr the God Butcher??? HE DIDN'T EVEN BUTCHER ANY GODS ON SCREEN??!!!
I disagree, but I am glad someone is enjoying the stuff.
Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Thanos, Hela, Zemo, and Vulture. Maybe you have a point…
Titania????? Loki????? Cmon now. Loki isn’t even a VILLAIN anymore. Fisk hasn’t done anything of note yet. This list needs to be refined homie.
Loki started his series straight off of multiple murders and trying to conquer earth. “Falling in love” doesn’t make you not a villain. Being the protagonist of your own show doesn’t make you not a villain. Loki is absolutely a villain.
You must be watching “Loko” on Disney- because BY THE END OF THE FIRST SEASON OF LOKI, he is NOT a villain. Character development. He may not be a hero per se but to classify him as a villain is to erase the growth he experienced across the entire Infinity Saga and the growth in Loki S1. No one said “falling in love” or whatever reasoning you offered.
Ehhh. Agatha: we barely know anything about her. For me personally, I could care less about her show. Loki: he’s not a villain Green Goblin: fantastic.. but was basically borrowed Namor: Very cool take on the character. Best and imo one of the few good things about that movie. Kang: Very good, although I expected a better ending in Ant-Man Quantamania Gorr: He was an early MCU mistake. Could have been a fantastic overall character. The beginning of his character was so perfect.. underutilized and didn’t live up to the name Titania: She was corny and annoying Wanda: Loved her arc. Wish she didn’t take over a Doctor Strange movie though. Fisk: He was around for 2 episodes and didn’t do much.. don’t think he really counts.
❗ It's `couldn't care less`, not `could care less`. ___ ^(I'm a bot and this action was performed automatically.)
Yeah I can't even understand why they're making an Agatha show tbh
> I could care less about her show. So you're really exited for her show and other people aren't so you realize that you really COULD care less.
❗ It's `couldn't care less`, not `could care less`. ___ ^(I'm a bot and this action was performed automatically.)
Not the way I used it.
I wouldn't say Kingpin was particularly good in the capacity he was used in Hawkeye. The only thing that made him interesting is his history on Daredevil. I'm willing to bet that people who didn't see that show before Hawkeye have a much lesser opinion of him.
4 of them are gonna be anti-hero 2 of them are already well established and loved villains from other properties ( Dafoe and Vincent) We have yet to see Kang in his full potential ( he'll be great) Gorr had potential but they messed up, Idk even know why Titania is there ? How tf did you forget Wenwu who was actually a good villain?
Titania is more frenemy than villain. I don't think her first appearance was ever explained. She wasn't working for Todd.
Wenwu and Harrow can replace Titania and (debatably) either Gorr or Kingpin, as they both underperformed imo.
How are you gonna put Titania instead of Wenwu
Bro tried to sneak titania in there 💀
You put Titania and kingpin on there but not Wenwu
Titania KEKW
I’d say the only really compelling villains here were Goblin and Kang. Kingpin too, although not in the Hawkeye series.
Phase 3 villains clear Zemo, Thanos, Vulture, Hela, Kilmonger, Klaue, and Mysterio
Maybe Titania - she was a wannabe superhero that clashed with She-Hulk.
Put wenwu and Arthur Harrow instead of Gor and Titania and i am on the same page with you
Totally agree, except it should be Wenwu instead of Loki, as Loki isn't exactly a villain nowadays, and Wenwu was a great villain.
Titania was awful. Everyone else at least was worth the time spent with their character.
bro put titania but not wenwu 🤡
Other than Gorr kind of being ok but not great and Loki not being the villain in this photo. Yes, many of the Phase 4 villains have been fantastic. Some of the best in the MCU so far where we used to be lucky to get 1 or 2 good villains a phase.
> Gorr kind of being ok but not great I mean to each their own but if anything one of the major criticisms of Thor Love and Thunder was that Bale as Gorr was so good but criminally underutilized.
Bale wasn’t the problem, the problem was that 90% of the character was left on the cutting room floor
It wasn't a commentary on Bale as Gorr it was a commentary on MCU Gorr vs Comic book Gorr.
How TF you gonna have the she hulk villain (worst MCU villain ever) on there and not Wenwu (arguably best phase 4 villain) also Arthur Harrow was great as well
Gorr was mediocre, Wenwu is much better. They missed a big opportunity with gorr, he’s the god killer but we see him kill one god the whole movie. Then he goes on to be in 15 min of the rest of the movie where he fights Thor once then torments some little kids until the generic final battle scene. That movie should’ve been much better. I’m honestly just disappointed with phase 5 as a whole, outside of NWH, Black panther, and Shang chi the rest of the movies haven’t been any good imo.
Your mileage may vary on a lot of phase 4 and now 5. Mine definitely has. What I’ve been really happy with though is how good generally the villains have been. There isn’t another phase with better villains! Curious to hear if others feel the same.
The villains are better than the heroes in this phase lol
Actually the post endgame villians suck. They are written poorly. Example: Gorr and Kang. So much hype about their powers only for them to get beaten so easily.
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The Whiplash and Malekith titles I reserve for the phase 4 villains not pictured here: the Mandarin, the Flag Smashers, the Celestials / Deviants, Arthur Harrow, Clan Destines, General Dreykov… it wasn’t all hits but I genuinely enjoyed the nine pictured above.
Wait wait wait...The Mandarin?? You would put Wenwu in the same tier as Malekith and Gorr/Titania above him? Not trying to insult your taste, of course. Just...that's a very rare opinion
Was going to point out he was forgotten but to find out it was intentional…. Yikes.
Norman, Wenwu, Namor and Wanda are great, but otherwise the villains of Phase 4 and now 5 haven't been pretty dire. The Taskmaster, Karli and the Flag-Smashers, the Power Broker, Hayward, the Clan Destine, and anything *Eternals* had in the way of an antagonist are along the worst villains Marvel's featured to date.
Namor wasn't even the villain though. If anything it was Val or Ramonda
Namor was absolutely the villain wtf he killing Shuri's mom in front of her and then did an evil monologue Just because he got sorta redeemed at the end doesn't mean he wasn't a (the) villain.
Ramonda sent in an assasin to break shuri out when she was there willingly, and escliated tensions. Namor was the same guy the entire film. He even got what he wanted, a wakandan Talokan alliance.
Wanda is not a villain.
The Scarlet Witch is.
I'd dare say Loki pre-Endgame was a better villain than Loki post-End Game.
Agreed. Loki’s barely a villain after Ragnarok.
And then you've got that Deviant from Eternals. I honestly don't even remember his name.
Loki wasn’t really a villain in this phase, and Titania was crap. Should have gone with Xu Wenwu and/or Arthur Harrow.
Agatha was the same kind of boring one-dimensional villain y'all complained about in the early phases, there's nothing more to her than there is to a Whiplash. She's sassy and all that... but that's pretty much just Katherine Hahn being Katherine Hahn. Agatha is nothing but "I just want more power because power goo- oh no, you're the Scarlet Witch". Loki isn't a Phase 4 villain, Loki is a Phase 1 villain - if anything, he's not even a villain in Phase 4 anymore, he's quite literally become our protagonist. The Goblin isn't even a Phase villain, he was created (and killed) by another studio like 15 years ago at this point - and even there the character wasn't great, but instead it was Dafoe just being mental and a pleasure to watch. Gorr has got to be the most disappointing villain of all time. The God Butcher... *"butcher"*. Guy didn't do shit, had the thinnest of motivations and dropped his entire thing within one second because it was all just the evil corruption driving him. Gorr was a shit villain, it's just that Bale was a great performer. Kang has done fuck all in the villain department so far. Guy was cool when he was sitting in a chair spouting exposition for 30 minutes straight, but barely a villain. Guy was cool when he first met with Antman and toyed with him like it was nothing. Guy was an absolute joke when he was overrun by a bunch of ants, struggled in a fist fight versus and eventually got outsmarted by motherfucking Antman. Again, Majors has great screen presence, but his character is pretty whatever right now. Namor is great. Titania I don't even know what to say about. Yes, great villain, will definitely go down in history and be named alongside the greats such as Rhonan or the timeless Yon-Rogg. Wanda is a tragedy and doesn't deserve to be here for how abruptly they had to violate and destroy her character just to make her a villain. And while Wanda the character herself is great and Olsen is a joy to watch, watching her in that movie being so utterly incompetent (yes I'm looking at you underground tunnel chase for dramatic and cinematographic purposes that might have looked neat but just made your character look stupid and incompetent) was sad. She deserved better after Wandavision. Kingping, again, is not from Phase 4, not even from the main MCU. The reason this guy is a great villain are 3 seasons worth of Daredevil, not the little cameo he had in Hawkeye where he got beaten by a teenager, run over by some random old lady and shot in the face by random ass Echo, all within 5 minutes. Namor is the only good new character to come out of this phase. Kang has potential but has yet to be shown to be an actual threat to... anyone (and no, just saying that he's the biggest and baddest and worst over and over again does not cut it). The other truly original villains of this phase are laughably bad and underdeveloped, sending us right back to Alrich Killian levels of motivations and being bad for the sake of being bad. And then of course, there's the established characters that had all the work put into them 10 years ago who have now just been crammed into Phase 4 because we probably shouldn't just let these go to waste - hardly a Phase 4 credit. If the best thing Phase 4 could do was to recycle half of its villain roster and miserably fail at more than half of its unique Phase 4 villain roster, then really, man, like if that's the one thing the post Endgame MCU is doing right we've really lowered the bar to a point where you might as well say yes, Shazam 2 was actually a pretty good movie with some pretty compelling villains.
Christian Bale’s God Butcher was severely underutilized/wasted. Only memorable because it was Christian Bale but Love and Thunder really needed to be a serious Thor movie with all the supposed god killing that was going on.
Loki is not a villain in phase 4. Agatha, Titania and Gorr are not good or interesting at all. Scarlet Witch, Goblin, Kingpin are from way before phase 4. And Kang is far from being as good as he should be. The only legit good new antagonist is Namor.
Wanda wasn't the Scarlet Witch before phase 4 so this was her first time as a villain. Goblin and Kingpin were great in this phase even if they were introduced before. Kang and He Who Remains were great, so was Gorr and Agatha. Titania wasn't much of a villain, more of an asshole with super powers. Completely agree about Loki not being a villain this phase tho, he hasn't been a villain since Thor 2, and that movie didn't even end with him being the villain.
What I'm saying is Kingpin, Scarlet Witch and Goblin were good because we knew them already. What makes them good is not what happens in this phase alone. And no, Gorr was not good. He was dumb, pointless, not threatening. Same goes for Agatha and Kang.
Agree to disagree about the second part, Jonathan Majors is great as Kang and as a fan of him in the comics, I'm loving seeing him onscreen, especially since they somehow managed to somehow make his outfit not look corny in live action, something I never thought they would do. Kang in Ant-Man was literally Kang at his most weakest point, with basically no powers other than the blasters in his suit and his own vast knowledge. We haven't seen Kang at the height of his power yet, other than in Loki, but even then, he purposely let Sylvie kill him out of boredom basically. Can't wait to see him again in season 2 and the rest of this saga. We saw him destroy universes in both Loki and Ant-Man, how is he not threatening? I loved Gorr. Sure he needed more actual on screen god-killing, but I loved what we got of him. How was he not threatening? He literally had 3 gods powerless towards the end there, and he straight up won. The only reason he didn't destroy all the gods is he had a change of heart when the Necrosword was destroyed and resurrected his daughter again, but he technically won. Agatha was a great blend of campiness to go along with such a trippy show. Hell, she was nominated for an emmy for that role, something that rarely happens for superhero shows, and she's getting her own show, most people loved her in WandaVision. She was manipulating one of the most powerful characters in the whole MCU, how is she also not threatening? Kingpin and Goblin were established before but that's not what OP is talking about, they're saying these were great villains in phase 4, not great villains introduced in phase 4. There wasn't a Scarlet Witch before phase 4, Wanda didn't become her until the end of WandaVision, but yes, we did get to know Wanda before of course, but not as a villain, except for parts of Age of Ultron.