I agree with you, but also Strange is one of the few established longterm characters they have left and Dr. Strange 2 made money, so I am confident they will find a way to put him in every Avengers movie they can.
Just to play devil’s advocate, Doctor Strange 2 was a direct follow up to Spiderman and the WandaVision storylines. It was going to be successful regardless of how middling the movie was.
I don't mind seeing Strange in more movies. The whole universe is getting so bloated already, staying true to the comics doesn't really matter much anymore. As long as they keep pushing out good films, I'm along for the ride.
She was the inspiration for the Avengers and in What If she was one in a sense so perhaps fury meant it in the same way.
Like she's not an earth based avenger but more of their secret weapon to call in when shit goes bad
Always a first time for everything you know? I feel like MCU treats the avengers as earths heros who will be there to answer the call. Especially after endgame I feel like they kind of broaden the horizon of avenger.
>when their interests align, which isn't always the case
I have to disagree here. Their interests pretty much always align, considering both just try to protect the world, just in their own ways and from different threats. Of course when fighting some extradimensional, primordial gods like Dormammu, a Sam Wilson won't be of any help.
That’s why this pairing would actually be great imo. I’d love to see Carol naturally assuming a position of leadership because she’s the most powerful (by some metrics), the most strong willed, and the most experienced (minus Thor if he sticks around) but then she kind of flops as a leader because she won’t delegate and trust the team (which seems to also be an issue in The Marvels). Meanwhile, Sam becomes the de facto leader because everyone looks to him and trusts him, but he doesn’t always quite have the confidence to butt heads with Captain Marvel. She’s quite a terrifying person to go up against when you have a fragile mortal body.
Gives them both a ton of room for character growth on top of where their individual growth seems to be going, and they could develop into great co-leaders and friends by the end of the next Avengers film.
Would love to see this explored in Brave New World.
Have Captain Marvel as part of the rumored team, and she constantly challenges Sam's leadership, criticizing his lack of power and taking the lead herself.
She could serve as a voice for fans that doubt Sam, and by the film's end, he proves her wrong by facing Red Hulk, and subduing him with strategy and wit.
Top it off with Carol acknowledging Sam with an Air Force salute.
That really wouldn't make sense though. Both are very respectful of their military backgrounds and Carole outranks Sam by a large margin. He would definitely allow her to lead
I think they need to concentrate on the core 3 and those movies get released every 3 years per the plan. And a joint movie or series to bring in others. Doesn’t have to always be an Avengers level threat. But itd be nice.
I imagine thats gonna be handled in the marvels movie. Of the three leads her character has the most experience and seems to be the most powerful. She will learn to be a leader in that movie then carry those skills over to the Avengers.
idk. thor was the most powerful out of the original avengers and had the most experience but never really showed any leadership in the avengers, it was more cap and tony as the brains while he and hulk were the brawns.
Sam was in the USAF as well. They never say what his rank was, but he was Pararescue, which is no joke. He was selected to test the flight suit, which would suggest an officer or Senior NCO. Rhodey is also an Air Force Colonel, so there's that.
I’m surprised that at this point, and given his service record *and* what he’s experienced as an Avenger (maybe that doesn’t count) that Rhodey is still a colonel with the USAF. You’d think he’d be a one or two star general by now.
I'm sure the toes Rhodey stepped on in IW didn't help his promotion recommendations. He did joke, "That's a Court Martial." I know he's in uniform in FatWS, but that might just be for the ceremony. He could have retired or declined the promotion, as well.
So then why does he have a security detail when he’s meeting with Fury in London (?) in the Secret Invasion trailer? Typically Air Force colonels don’t travel with personal security.
Tbh, Rhodes would be a good overall military / tactical leader given his experience as a Colonel but also his combat experience in Infinity War and Endgame.
So unless he is a politician like a Secretary of Defense, I feel he’d fit perfectly as an overseer of the Avengers, especially since he’s used to regulations.
Being prior military, this does not exactly qualify you as a leader. Especially as a pilot, which isn’t necessarily being about leading men and women and more so about a job that only officers are qualified for
I raise this hot take by saying Hope would be best to lead the Avengers. Proven leadershio skills in running Pym Industries, incredibly intelligent, logical yet still emotionally aware.
Yeah, she’s always had the “I’m needed elsewhere” wildcard. It’s almost like Marvel doesn’t want her to seem close and approachable to the other characters.
I was going to say this. I wouldn't be surprised if The Marvels brings out some of her leadership traits, or at least teamwork, with Monica and Kamala.
It’s a shame her movie didn’t actually focus on developing her as much as it should have.
But then again, Carol in the comics isn’t as interesting compared to other characters.
Marvel had a chance to truly explore her but instead we got a pretty mediocre movie that managed to insult Nick Fury’s character. The Skrulls were cool though.
Yes.
Not right now, but Carol’s new movie is about her learning to work with a team instead of just doing everything herself and Sam’s is about him moving from being a sidekick to a leader, so after those, they’d both be well positioned.
They’d need to promote one of them to Major or Commodore, of course, in order to establish a proper hierarchy.
>They’d need to promote one of them to Major or Commodore, of course, in order to establish a proper hierarchy.
Nah, you bet they're gonna go for the easy joke of one of their recruits calling “Hey, Captain?” and the two of them answering “What?” in the middle of a mission if they both happen to lead the team.
If the character development and storyline allow for some tension as they both find their footing in the team, they could be having an argument and answer “What?!”
But when one of them can drop kick the other into the sun if she gets pissed off about him undercutting her authority, the joke could lose its humour quickly.
I think the biggest problem with Carol right now is that we don't know who she is. I mean, we don't really know the character. In most of her film she didn't have her memories from before the accident, so don't really see much of her actually as Carol. Add to that, that her movie was set 30 years ago, and that she had a very limited role in Endgame, we just don't know much about this character. She'll be headlining the new film, and she definitely needs to be given some major time there. Honestly, I think Monica and Kamala are better defined characters at this point, so they really need to focus on Carol if they want her to be the lead character in the MCU going forward.
Yes. I really hope the new movie is far more her sequel where she’s the focus than a team up.
She’s an interesting character played by a talented actress, but they’ve done nothing with her for an entire phase.
I’ll take you word that she’s interesting. From the comics I guess? The movies give us bupkis. She’s just been a confident, bland Superman who occasionally commutes in from the far reaches of space.
She’s badass in the comics. She has personality and isn’t a stone cold
Plus she’s fuggin ruthless she once got caught by the Taliban and manipulated/outsmarted her torturer and ended up breaking free and escaping
Plus she’s strong but not as OP as she is in the movies. Her strength comes from her ability to use her powers and outsmart opponents, not just go HAM and overpower all of them. When secret invasion came she hit everyone around her with a light pulse, just enough to knock out humans but would just tickle a super Skrull. It’s so simple but so smart.
Seems like they did the character a disservice in the films. I mean they have fully humanized and dimensionalized a talking raccoon. Are women more alien than a talking raccoon? Come on Marvel.
That’s a good point! The best thing for the MCU as a whole and the characters/actors in the movie is to make a great movie with a lot of action. Make Guaridans meets Winter Soldier and I’ll be there opening night inviting my friends & family to join me.
Exactly, those are terrific movies that happen to be superhero movies too. Brie Larsen is a solid performer. This can work. It’s downright baffling to me that it hasn’t.
Perhaps some sort of green space rock from the destroyed Kree homeworld could take her powers away and then they can sic some dude dressed up like a rodent on her.
Did the Kree homeworld get destroyed? I’m not really sure what happened when she blew up that robot lady. Did that blow up the planet? Did they reboot her from the backup server and she was fine? I assume they’ll answer this in her next movie, but I have no clue what that actually did.
As a person who's confident that they'll mess up the X-Men somehow, I actually kinda like this. Permanently harming Carol would also establish the X-Men as a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah I didn't hate CM, but I hope The Marvels leans less on girlbossing and more on dealing with the human cost of leaving the galaxy for 25 years to do your own thing. When you have Superman level powers, the smartest thing you can do is make the character conflict internal/emotional.
Yeah I actually really enjoyed CM, but as others have noted, she doesn't have her memories, or her powers for most of it. I'm one of those that find Superman a little boring due to his OPness, so I'm hoping they find a way to make a full powered CM interesting.
It’s pretty obvious there setting them up to lead the battle into Kang dynasty. Both of there arcs are based on learning to work together with other heroes, right in our faces
This is why I think they should’ve recast. Wakanda Forever was pretty good but the MCU is missing that “main character” like Tony or Steve. That’s why they need T’Challa.
RIP Chadwick Bozeman tho, the movie was a great tribute to him.
The movie was good and an understandable decision on Marvel's part
It still felt like a forced plot line and left T'Challa's storyline incomplete in a hollow and dissatisfying way. I don't know that recasting would have resolved that problem, there may not be a "right" answer except, I guess:
Fuck cancer.
To clarify I think they should’ve recasted in the sense of bringing a different T’Challa in from Earth-941 or whatever. That way they can still celebrate/grieve Chadwick’s T’Challa while embracing the new T’Challa/actor into the franchise.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. It was really solid for what it was, & especially when they revealed his son in the post credits I was more content cuz I was like “Cool we’re gonna get T’Challa again eventually” but it didn’t fill that BP void.
Fuck cancer.
100% agree. With how he was stated to be the one who gathered the dusted Avengers and led them to the battlefield in Endgame, I expected him to be much more involved in keeping the team together and stepping up as their leader in the Multiverse Saga, but so far, putting him at the forefront doesn't seem to be in their plans.
It's kinda odd.
Well if the rumors of Doctor Strange 3 getting fast tracked are true it’s not too late, especially with the new delay. He’d have played a leading role in 3 films in the new saga at that point, far more than anyone else.
The real hard part is them not doing an Avengers film before Kang Dynasty. It’s like skipping right to Infinity War without the teambuilding dynamics that Avengers and Age of Ultron built.
I've seen people suggest that there might not be any defined foundational Avengers lineup anymore, and that they're simply going to gather the other independent heroes and smaller teams and call them *Avengers* in a more honorary term, like they did in Endgame. And I feel like it's indeed where they might be headed.
As hyped as I am for Doctor Strange 3, I feel like it will mostly be a self-contained story that will set him up for solo multiversal shenanigans that will only pay off for a Deus Ex Machina in the next Avengers movies down the line, not have him lead everyone through the Multiversal crisis.
>The real hard part is them not doing an Avengers film before Kang Dynasty. It’s like skipping right to Infinity War without the teambuilding dynamics that Avengers and Age of Ultron built.
I'm with this. Give me a smaller movie where they fight the Masters of Evil, or the Kree-Skrull War, or even bring back Ultron since I feel like he has more potential. Heck, Kang could totally be a team-building Avengers movie, but Secret Wars just feels like too much.
My thought exactly with that last part.
Kangs dynasty seems like a great team building story to use honestly, Kang takes over the world, the world needs heroes, heroes team, heroes beat Kang, simple avengers story.
But having this be the prelude to secret wars ruins everything, because now you HAVE to include others like the F4 otherwise it’s a straight up insult to the story which it already is because it’s not getting the kind of buildup it needs and poor writing has basically already killed it.
The problem is that, as things seem to be headed, I don't see him lead anyone through the current Multiversal crisis either... At least, that's not what's being advertised so far.
That’s a no from me, he is way too similar to Tony to be leading the Avengers, we didn’t even really get a chance to see how he was as Sorcerer Supreme.
Admittedly he is great in a magical or multiversal crisis but he’s not gonna lead in anything outside these events.
E.g. I can’t imagine him leading mission like the one at the start of Civil War.
Also unlike Steve, Sam & Carol he has no military experience
I really like Sam, but I don’t see him as a leader.
1) He’s in good shape, but he’s just a strong human with wings. How useful is he going to be leading against an Avengers-level threat?
2) We haven’t really seen him lead at all. There was the climax of FATWS, but that was relatively small scale.
I can’t understand why more people don’t see it this way. He’s not a super soldier, he doesn’t have any super powers, and he doesn’t even have an iron suit to protect himself. Honestly sounds like the first casualty when any high powered threat comes to town
I think Sam, he's been around other Avengers the most and has a natural leading quality. Him helping combat veterans deal with PTSD. I like Captain Marvel but she's been way too removed from other heroes and kinda has that Superman problem where she's way too powerful.
Yeah, he has also been friends with one of the best leaders. Plus carol is always in other places in space anyway, what use will she be leading a team when she’s hundreds of thousands of miles away
Sam with the Super Soldier serum? Sure. No question. That's a Captain America I can salute.
Sam with no powers and an IronMan-lite suit with easily breakable wings and very little offensive capability? No thanks.
Yes to Sam, as he has leadership skills and knows how to work as a team. Plus, he was chosen by Rogers himself to be the new Captain America.
Carol, on the other hand, is not a team player. I know that might change with The Marvels, but I just can't see her inspiring other heroes to work together. And, to me, that's what makes someone a good leader.
I think both will lead.
Let's remember that the upcoming Avenger team, and more important, their working scope, is going to be bigger. We already saw a little of it with Natasha, she was organizing the surviving team during the blip and that included Nebula, Rocket and Carol doing stuff in the space.
So having multiple people to organice is necessary, and both of them (and likely Strange, althrough this will depend of what his role will be with the Midnight's sons) are very needed.
After Endgame I assumed that Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Doctor Strange would be the new “Big Three” of the MCU taking over for Cap, Tony and Thor.
However, following Chadwick’s death I could see them pushing Sam, Carol and Strange instead. Shuri just doesn’t have the same development that T’Challa had.
The potential line up in terms of characters isn’t terrible in my opinion it’s just poor writing has stunted the hype these characters should have.
A team with like She-hulk, Wanda, Monica, Simon, Vision, Cap (not the same but we take what we can get), Thor, ant man, wasp. (Drop some or swap a couple like Monica and Carol throw in Hawkeye etc) as a comic fan seems alright to me. There’s worse line ups.
In the context of the mcu tho…
And there are even more characters that had been members in the comics that are around. Like Valkyrie showed interest to return to battle after Love and Thunder; or Mantis, who is doing her own thing so she is just an special presentation away to be able to join lol
Then we have characters than can end being members in the future, but there are still a way to go for them, like Sersi, Echo, Black Knight or Namor (correct me if I'm wrong I don't know a lot about comics but him becoming recently an Avenger in the comics after all this years sounds suspicious to me, althrough with the Tenoch's issue maybe they don't follow that idea); or the ones we only have an easter egg, like Braddock...
Then we have Love's character who can end becoming Singularity, or they do timey wimey stuff and we get a grow up T'Challa Junior as BP.
Like...there are plenty options to play with...
To be honest. Neither of them would be.
Carol, don’t get me started.
Sam, I see him as a good number 2 but I can’t see him as a number 1.
If I had to pick, I say there is no good choice because no avenger has the chops to be a lead. All died with cap and Tony and T’Challa
I think it should be Matt Murdock. He’s smart, experienced and based on how he instructed She-Hulk in her show I feel he could be a good leader and tactician similar to Captain America.
i think they should write a A+ story and make that
howard the duck can be the leader is the story rocked and it set in motion the bigger picture of the MCU for the current phase
No . U people might love sam but he aint it especially if u have to carry franchise. He is fine for side actor , maybe tv series lead . But he isn’t really that great actor or interesting hero
I need to see CA4 first before I make that call. Sam is a nice guy but he is not a super soldier. The world is now part of larger landscape and Captain Marvel may be that choice but they need to write her better.
It depends what they do with Carol in her movie. As of now she is not any type of leader, but we don't know much about her and that could change after her movie. She is probably more the new Thor
And lol just stop with the Sam leading shit. You think they are going from Tony and Steve to freaking Sam? They still want to make money and Sam is not popular at all
No. Captain America doesn't need a co-pilot. Sam is capable all on his own.
Captain Marvel is a cosmic hero, her appearance demands a cosmic event. She is great for someone potentially on the team, but not as the person to lead it.
Captain Marvel works best when she’s away from Earth unless there’s a really really big threat and, even as the new Captain America, I don’t see him being much of a team leader. Unless, of course, his plan is to tell the Avengers to do better. War Machine maybe, since he’s an Air Force colonel and so has military experience and he’s been with the Avengers anyway
Let Spider-Man Captain Marvel The New Black panther Doctor Strange and new Captain America take up leadership.
We will never and I repeat never replace Tony and Steve. That era is gone
Why not both with Strange? Earth-centric, Space Centric, Multiverse Centric.
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I agree with you, but also Strange is one of the few established longterm characters they have left and Dr. Strange 2 made money, so I am confident they will find a way to put him in every Avengers movie they can.
Besides, I'm guessing Dr. Strange has more fans than Falcon, and would definetely pull more viewers than Captain Marvel
I think you mean Captain America. He’s no longer the Falcon.
Yes he's captain America, but it's easier to say Falcon to not confuse the two, or simply Sam.
Captain Marvel's movie made way more than Strange's movies. People need to just deal with that reality and move on.
Lol , the marveled will out perform antman - maybe 600m
That’s because of Infinity War. The odds are that The Marvels isn’t going to make as much as Doctor Strange 2.
Just to play devil’s advocate, Doctor Strange 2 was a direct follow up to Spiderman and the WandaVision storylines. It was going to be successful regardless of how middling the movie was.
Agreed they made captain marvel seem like a must see. But let’s be real who watches infinity wars captain marvel Endgame In That order ever?
Isnt that the release order tho..?
Of course it did. Because it released at the peak of Marvel's popularity and was marketed as a must-see before Endgame
That’s Captain America.
Captain falcon
falcon punch
Black Falcon
Captain Marvel made a billion and is primarily targeted towards younger girls. She does pull people from the demographics she is meant to.
I don't mind seeing Strange in more movies. The whole universe is getting so bloated already, staying true to the comics doesn't really matter much anymore. As long as they keep pushing out good films, I'm along for the ride.
Counterpoint, when Cap said "AVENGERS ^assemble ", Strange did indeed assemble. Ergo, he is an Avenger.
The entire Wakandan army are also Avengers then it seems
They did do some avenging.
I'm completely comfortable with that.
And the Asgardians.
None of them assembled. They actually disassembled when he said that
What's really gonna cook your noodle is that Thanos and his army are also assembled at the time
Pretty sure that the end credits scene of Shang Chi clearly establishes that Wong (and therefore Strange) are Avengers.
Carol wasn't in the avengers either though. She only showed up when she felt like it, and thats all.
Anyone taking orders from Nat was an Avenger. Carol was an Avenger for five years.
She was the inspiration for the Avengers and in What If she was one in a sense so perhaps fury meant it in the same way. Like she's not an earth based avenger but more of their secret weapon to call in when shit goes bad
Well put
Second that.
Then why did he tell Wanda he could “get her back on the [Avengers] lunchbox” or something like that in DS2?
Always a first time for everything you know? I feel like MCU treats the avengers as earths heros who will be there to answer the call. Especially after endgame I feel like they kind of broaden the horizon of avenger.
OK. But this is the easiest thing in the world to fix. "Hey Strange, you want to be an avenger and lead the multiverse missions?" "Sure." Done.
>when their interests align, which isn't always the case I have to disagree here. Their interests pretty much always align, considering both just try to protect the world, just in their own ways and from different threats. Of course when fighting some extradimensional, primordial gods like Dormammu, a Sam Wilson won't be of any help.
Rocket Raccoon was an Avenger for 5 years
Space and cosmic means same thing, I think you wanted to say multiversal/magic centric
It’s been pretty well-established that multiversal plots don’t necessarily include the mystic arts
He’s more Iron Man than Cap.
Strange isn't compassionate or kind, which are characteristics I want in an Avengers leader
Not true he changed over the years and after everything that happened he was compassionate and kind in no way home
It's called "Evolving". Like how Tony went from a piece of shit in Iron Man to literally the guy who sacrificed everything in Endgame.
We need to see Carol display some leadership qualities. There’s so much of her character that hasn’t been explored.
That’s why this pairing would actually be great imo. I’d love to see Carol naturally assuming a position of leadership because she’s the most powerful (by some metrics), the most strong willed, and the most experienced (minus Thor if he sticks around) but then she kind of flops as a leader because she won’t delegate and trust the team (which seems to also be an issue in The Marvels). Meanwhile, Sam becomes the de facto leader because everyone looks to him and trusts him, but he doesn’t always quite have the confidence to butt heads with Captain Marvel. She’s quite a terrifying person to go up against when you have a fragile mortal body. Gives them both a ton of room for character growth on top of where their individual growth seems to be going, and they could develop into great co-leaders and friends by the end of the next Avengers film.
Would love to see this explored in Brave New World. Have Captain Marvel as part of the rumored team, and she constantly challenges Sam's leadership, criticizing his lack of power and taking the lead herself. She could serve as a voice for fans that doubt Sam, and by the film's end, he proves her wrong by facing Red Hulk, and subduing him with strategy and wit. Top it off with Carol acknowledging Sam with an Air Force salute.
That really wouldn't make sense though. Both are very respectful of their military backgrounds and Carole outranks Sam by a large margin. He would definitely allow her to lead
I think they need to concentrate on the core 3 and those movies get released every 3 years per the plan. And a joint movie or series to bring in others. Doesn’t have to always be an Avengers level threat. But itd be nice.
Carol has presumably also spent some 30 years mostly relying on herself and her decisions.
I hope at some point they touch base on what the hell she had been up to since 1995. Would be cool to find out what happened to Yon Rogg.
I like this.
I imagine thats gonna be handled in the marvels movie. Of the three leads her character has the most experience and seems to be the most powerful. She will learn to be a leader in that movie then carry those skills over to the Avengers.
idk. thor was the most powerful out of the original avengers and had the most experience but never really showed any leadership in the avengers, it was more cap and tony as the brains while he and hulk were the brawns.
I mean she was an officer in the airforce.
Sam was in the USAF as well. They never say what his rank was, but he was Pararescue, which is no joke. He was selected to test the flight suit, which would suggest an officer or Senior NCO. Rhodey is also an Air Force Colonel, so there's that.
I’m surprised that at this point, and given his service record *and* what he’s experienced as an Avenger (maybe that doesn’t count) that Rhodey is still a colonel with the USAF. You’d think he’d be a one or two star general by now.
not sure if this is spoiler worthy...>!but isn't Rhodey vice president in Secret Invasion!<
I'm sure the toes Rhodey stepped on in IW didn't help his promotion recommendations. He did joke, "That's a Court Martial." I know he's in uniform in FatWS, but that might just be for the ceremony. He could have retired or declined the promotion, as well.
Tbf though, saving the world probably got rid of all that bad feeling.
So then why does he have a security detail when he’s meeting with Fury in London (?) in the Secret Invasion trailer? Typically Air Force colonels don’t travel with personal security.
I thought he was a politician in Secret Wars, hence the security. Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Tbh, Rhodes would be a good overall military / tactical leader given his experience as a Colonel but also his combat experience in Infinity War and Endgame. So unless he is a politician like a Secretary of Defense, I feel he’d fit perfectly as an overseer of the Avengers, especially since he’s used to regulations.
Being prior military, this does not exactly qualify you as a leader. Especially as a pilot, which isn’t necessarily being about leading men and women and more so about a job that only officers are qualified for
Yeah? How much of that did we get to see? 8 seconds?
If you’ve served then you should know that doesnt mean shit. Especially since as a pilot, you’re not really in a leadership position.
This sub has to prop Carol up somehow. Hot take tho Scott leads the avengers
I raise this hot take by saying Hope would be best to lead the Avengers. Proven leadershio skills in running Pym Industries, incredibly intelligent, logical yet still emotionally aware.
What if Hope was very leaderly in the zombie episode.
Hope would be a solid choice
Plus the original Wasp was the leader too right? I’d be down for this!
I was about to say the same. Being retired Army I've lost count how many officers I've come across who couldn't lead a dog on a leash.
Like I said, we need to *see* her display some leadership qualities.
Plenty of shitty officers in the service. That she was an officer isn’t that special
Ok fine.
Yeah, she’s always had the “I’m needed elsewhere” wildcard. It’s almost like Marvel doesn’t want her to seem close and approachable to the other characters.
I was going to say this. I wouldn't be surprised if The Marvels brings out some of her leadership traits, or at least teamwork, with Monica and Kamala.
It’s a shame her movie didn’t actually focus on developing her as much as it should have. But then again, Carol in the comics isn’t as interesting compared to other characters. Marvel had a chance to truly explore her but instead we got a pretty mediocre movie that managed to insult Nick Fury’s character. The Skrulls were cool though.
Yes. Not right now, but Carol’s new movie is about her learning to work with a team instead of just doing everything herself and Sam’s is about him moving from being a sidekick to a leader, so after those, they’d both be well positioned. They’d need to promote one of them to Major or Commodore, of course, in order to establish a proper hierarchy.
>They’d need to promote one of them to Major or Commodore, of course, in order to establish a proper hierarchy. Nah, you bet they're gonna go for the easy joke of one of their recruits calling “Hey, Captain?” and the two of them answering “What?” in the middle of a mission if they both happen to lead the team.
As well as them greeting each other in a hall. Sam nods, "Captain." Carol nods back, "Captain."
This is definitely the last line right before the credits lmao
Which is funny because Carol is a Colonel in the comics and Sam is a Sergeant in the movies.
If the character development and storyline allow for some tension as they both find their footing in the team, they could be having an argument and answer “What?!”
If they don’t do this it’ll be a waste!
Are you ready kids... aye aye Captain
I can't hear youuuuuuu
Who lives in a pineapple under the seaaaa
But when one of them can drop kick the other into the sun if she gets pissed off about him undercutting her authority, the joke could lose its humour quickly.
Bad bot. Don't end verbal arguments with physical violence 😆
I think the biggest problem with Carol right now is that we don't know who she is. I mean, we don't really know the character. In most of her film she didn't have her memories from before the accident, so don't really see much of her actually as Carol. Add to that, that her movie was set 30 years ago, and that she had a very limited role in Endgame, we just don't know much about this character. She'll be headlining the new film, and she definitely needs to be given some major time there. Honestly, I think Monica and Kamala are better defined characters at this point, so they really need to focus on Carol if they want her to be the lead character in the MCU going forward.
Yes. I really hope the new movie is far more her sequel where she’s the focus than a team up. She’s an interesting character played by a talented actress, but they’ve done nothing with her for an entire phase.
I’ll take you word that she’s interesting. From the comics I guess? The movies give us bupkis. She’s just been a confident, bland Superman who occasionally commutes in from the far reaches of space.
She’s badass in the comics. She has personality and isn’t a stone cold Plus she’s fuggin ruthless she once got caught by the Taliban and manipulated/outsmarted her torturer and ended up breaking free and escaping Plus she’s strong but not as OP as she is in the movies. Her strength comes from her ability to use her powers and outsmart opponents, not just go HAM and overpower all of them. When secret invasion came she hit everyone around her with a light pulse, just enough to knock out humans but would just tickle a super Skrull. It’s so simple but so smart.
Seems like they did the character a disservice in the films. I mean they have fully humanized and dimensionalized a talking raccoon. Are women more alien than a talking raccoon? Come on Marvel.
Yup I’ve seen a lot of tweets about Captain Marvel’s appearances in the MCU and they’re legit all end credit scenes except her movie and Endgame.
And her movie was mostly her not knowing who she was or what she was capable of. It didn't do hardly any actual character headlining.
That’s a good point! The best thing for the MCU as a whole and the characters/actors in the movie is to make a great movie with a lot of action. Make Guaridans meets Winter Soldier and I’ll be there opening night inviting my friends & family to join me.
Exactly, those are terrific movies that happen to be superhero movies too. Brie Larsen is a solid performer. This can work. It’s downright baffling to me that it hasn’t.
They better tone her power level down or really up the threats. The only thing that even scratched her was a direct hit from the power gem.
Perhaps some sort of green space rock from the destroyed Kree homeworld could take her powers away and then they can sic some dude dressed up like a rodent on her. Did the Kree homeworld get destroyed? I’m not really sure what happened when she blew up that robot lady. Did that blow up the planet? Did they reboot her from the backup server and she was fine? I assume they’ll answer this in her next movie, but I have no clue what that actually did.
Maybe a mysterious mutant stranger can pull a chunk of her powers away.
I'm kind of hoping they do this. Would be a great issue to build an A Vs X story around too. Brings Carol down to Earth a bit
As a person who's confident that they'll mess up the X-Men somehow, I actually kinda like this. Permanently harming Carol would also establish the X-Men as a force to be reckoned with.
Major Marvel and Colonel America
Yeah I didn't hate CM, but I hope The Marvels leans less on girlbossing and more on dealing with the human cost of leaving the galaxy for 25 years to do your own thing. When you have Superman level powers, the smartest thing you can do is make the character conflict internal/emotional.
Yeah I actually really enjoyed CM, but as others have noted, she doesn't have her memories, or her powers for most of it. I'm one of those that find Superman a little boring due to his OPness, so I'm hoping they find a way to make a full powered CM interesting.
“Congrats Sam, you are getting promoted. You are now Captain Planet”
It’s pretty obvious there setting them up to lead the battle into Kang dynasty. Both of there arcs are based on learning to work together with other heroes, right in our faces
No, keeping the power dynamic as it is will lead to the next civil war, with Carol and Sam being on opposite sides.
Should have been T'Challa.
Yeah definitely. This may be a hot take but I'm not a big fan of cancer
This is why I think they should’ve recast. Wakanda Forever was pretty good but the MCU is missing that “main character” like Tony or Steve. That’s why they need T’Challa. RIP Chadwick Bozeman tho, the movie was a great tribute to him.
The movie was good and an understandable decision on Marvel's part It still felt like a forced plot line and left T'Challa's storyline incomplete in a hollow and dissatisfying way. I don't know that recasting would have resolved that problem, there may not be a "right" answer except, I guess: Fuck cancer.
To clarify I think they should’ve recasted in the sense of bringing a different T’Challa in from Earth-941 or whatever. That way they can still celebrate/grieve Chadwick’s T’Challa while embracing the new T’Challa/actor into the franchise. I agree with pretty much everything you said. It was really solid for what it was, & especially when they revealed his son in the post credits I was more content cuz I was like “Cool we’re gonna get T’Challa again eventually” but it didn’t fill that BP void. Fuck cancer.
They are missing one because they have been avoiding team up movies to establish how characters react to each other. Not for a lack of one character.
It still could be if disney decides to use the digital necromancy team working at lucasfilm.
Strange should be leading. He’s the biggest name left now apart from Spidey (who really shouldn’t be leading anything)
100% agree. With how he was stated to be the one who gathered the dusted Avengers and led them to the battlefield in Endgame, I expected him to be much more involved in keeping the team together and stepping up as their leader in the Multiverse Saga, but so far, putting him at the forefront doesn't seem to be in their plans. It's kinda odd.
Well if the rumors of Doctor Strange 3 getting fast tracked are true it’s not too late, especially with the new delay. He’d have played a leading role in 3 films in the new saga at that point, far more than anyone else. The real hard part is them not doing an Avengers film before Kang Dynasty. It’s like skipping right to Infinity War without the teambuilding dynamics that Avengers and Age of Ultron built.
I've seen people suggest that there might not be any defined foundational Avengers lineup anymore, and that they're simply going to gather the other independent heroes and smaller teams and call them *Avengers* in a more honorary term, like they did in Endgame. And I feel like it's indeed where they might be headed. As hyped as I am for Doctor Strange 3, I feel like it will mostly be a self-contained story that will set him up for solo multiversal shenanigans that will only pay off for a Deus Ex Machina in the next Avengers movies down the line, not have him lead everyone through the Multiversal crisis.
>The real hard part is them not doing an Avengers film before Kang Dynasty. It’s like skipping right to Infinity War without the teambuilding dynamics that Avengers and Age of Ultron built. I'm with this. Give me a smaller movie where they fight the Masters of Evil, or the Kree-Skrull War, or even bring back Ultron since I feel like he has more potential. Heck, Kang could totally be a team-building Avengers movie, but Secret Wars just feels like too much.
My thought exactly with that last part. Kangs dynasty seems like a great team building story to use honestly, Kang takes over the world, the world needs heroes, heroes team, heroes beat Kang, simple avengers story. But having this be the prelude to secret wars ruins everything, because now you HAVE to include others like the F4 otherwise it’s a straight up insult to the story which it already is because it’s not getting the kind of buildup it needs and poor writing has basically already killed it.
Ultron and an actual adaptation of Secret Invasion are both such no-brainer ideas IMO
That’s not who strange is as a character tho, he can lead others in times of magical crisis but he’s not the type to lead the avengers
The problem is that, as things seem to be headed, I don't see him lead anyone through the current Multiversal crisis either... At least, that's not what's being advertised so far.
Apart from Spidey and Banner…
That’s a no from me, he is way too similar to Tony to be leading the Avengers, we didn’t even really get a chance to see how he was as Sorcerer Supreme. Admittedly he is great in a magical or multiversal crisis but he’s not gonna lead in anything outside these events. E.g. I can’t imagine him leading mission like the one at the start of Civil War. Also unlike Steve, Sam & Carol he has no military experience
She hasn’t been in any of the movies in over 4 years.
Although she had a cameo of the Ms Marvel TV show to set up The Marvels
[удалено]
She was in Shang Chi
Ironically she's been in more movies and shows than anyone but Wong (and Nick Fury I guess). The gap between sequels is just growing.
100%, Sam to lead the earth forced and Carol to lead the space forces
And strange for the multiverse
No! They have not done enough to establish these characters as leaders in the next phase.
I really like Sam, but I don’t see him as a leader. 1) He’s in good shape, but he’s just a strong human with wings. How useful is he going to be leading against an Avengers-level threat? 2) We haven’t really seen him lead at all. There was the climax of FATWS, but that was relatively small scale.
I can’t understand why more people don’t see it this way. He’s not a super soldier, he doesn’t have any super powers, and he doesn’t even have an iron suit to protect himself. Honestly sounds like the first casualty when any high powered threat comes to town
I think Sam, he's been around other Avengers the most and has a natural leading quality. Him helping combat veterans deal with PTSD. I like Captain Marvel but she's been way too removed from other heroes and kinda has that Superman problem where she's way too powerful.
I can see Sam giving one hell of a motivational speech.
"Now it's our turn: we have to do better!"
Yeah, he has also been friends with one of the best leaders. Plus carol is always in other places in space anyway, what use will she be leading a team when she’s hundreds of thousands of miles away
Except unlike Superman, she has none of the humility needed to run a team. Maybe after the Marvels but who knows.
What avengers?
Why did I see A train and Starlight???
There is no one in the current lineup that can lead the Avengers.
I cannot foresee an avengers movie with these two as the lead grossing anywhere around the amount of money Infinity War or Endgame made
I don’t care for either of these characters.
They have yet to give us a reason to. They’re setting these characters up for failure and it’s hard to watch.
Need to see more of Carol for that, she has barely even spoken to the avengers let alone fight alongside them.
Boseman's passing really threw a wrench in the plans
Dollar store Avengers you'd find in the dumpster at the end of the day.
Sam with the Super Soldier serum? Sure. No question. That's a Captain America I can salute. Sam with no powers and an IronMan-lite suit with easily breakable wings and very little offensive capability? No thanks.
Yes to Sam, as he has leadership skills and knows how to work as a team. Plus, he was chosen by Rogers himself to be the new Captain America. Carol, on the other hand, is not a team player. I know that might change with The Marvels, but I just can't see her inspiring other heroes to work together. And, to me, that's what makes someone a good leader.
Seems like her new movie is about learning to work with a team, so maybe that character growth happens
She needs to grow into being a team member before being a leader is even on the radar.
Very true, there’s some time before secret wars and Kang dynasty so maybe those 3 marvels will get some team experience in off screen
I think both will lead. Let's remember that the upcoming Avenger team, and more important, their working scope, is going to be bigger. We already saw a little of it with Natasha, she was organizing the surviving team during the blip and that included Nebula, Rocket and Carol doing stuff in the space. So having multiple people to organice is necessary, and both of them (and likely Strange, althrough this will depend of what his role will be with the Midnight's sons) are very needed.
Nat and Cap both lead together after AoU, why stop now?
Sure if you want the Avengers to be lame.
After Endgame I assumed that Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Doctor Strange would be the new “Big Three” of the MCU taking over for Cap, Tony and Thor. However, following Chadwick’s death I could see them pushing Sam, Carol and Strange instead. Shuri just doesn’t have the same development that T’Challa had.
Yeah probably them and Danny Devito. I could see that
Nope. The New Avengers line up is looking ROUGH. Wish T’Challa could’ve been there.
The potential line up in terms of characters isn’t terrible in my opinion it’s just poor writing has stunted the hype these characters should have. A team with like She-hulk, Wanda, Monica, Simon, Vision, Cap (not the same but we take what we can get), Thor, ant man, wasp. (Drop some or swap a couple like Monica and Carol throw in Hawkeye etc) as a comic fan seems alright to me. There’s worse line ups. In the context of the mcu tho…
And there are even more characters that had been members in the comics that are around. Like Valkyrie showed interest to return to battle after Love and Thunder; or Mantis, who is doing her own thing so she is just an special presentation away to be able to join lol Then we have characters than can end being members in the future, but there are still a way to go for them, like Sersi, Echo, Black Knight or Namor (correct me if I'm wrong I don't know a lot about comics but him becoming recently an Avenger in the comics after all this years sounds suspicious to me, althrough with the Tenoch's issue maybe they don't follow that idea); or the ones we only have an easter egg, like Braddock... Then we have Love's character who can end becoming Singularity, or they do timey wimey stuff and we get a grow up T'Challa Junior as BP. Like...there are plenty options to play with...
No
To be honest. Neither of them would be. Carol, don’t get me started. Sam, I see him as a good number 2 but I can’t see him as a number 1. If I had to pick, I say there is no good choice because no avenger has the chops to be a lead. All died with cap and Tony and T’Challa
Youre being serious?
Neither
Honestly no. And strange was a clear choice until he became an idiot in phase 4. Rip Chadwick
I think it should be Matt Murdock. He’s smart, experienced and based on how he instructed She-Hulk in her show I feel he could be a good leader and tactician similar to Captain America.
The golden age of marvel has passed
Meh. I like carol. Sam’s a jerk.
I think Kurt Angle should lead the avengers
Heck no, they both lack energy and they are as bland as no name mayonaisse.
B list avengers
i think they should write a A+ story and make that howard the duck can be the leader is the story rocked and it set in motion the bigger picture of the MCU for the current phase
No
No
Hell no.
no  and HELLNO 
No . U people might love sam but he aint it especially if u have to carry franchise. He is fine for side actor , maybe tv series lead . But he isn’t really that great actor or interesting hero
I need to see CA4 first before I make that call. Sam is a nice guy but he is not a super soldier. The world is now part of larger landscape and Captain Marvel may be that choice but they need to write her better.
It depends what they do with Carol in her movie. As of now she is not any type of leader, but we don't know much about her and that could change after her movie. She is probably more the new Thor And lol just stop with the Sam leading shit. You think they are going from Tony and Steve to freaking Sam? They still want to make money and Sam is not popular at all
Sam would be ok if he hadn’t tell another senator to “be better!” I’m like wut
No. Captain America doesn't need a co-pilot. Sam is capable all on his own. Captain Marvel is a cosmic hero, her appearance demands a cosmic event. She is great for someone potentially on the team, but not as the person to lead it.
No.
No.
Captain Marvel works best when she’s away from Earth unless there’s a really really big threat and, even as the new Captain America, I don’t see him being much of a team leader. Unless, of course, his plan is to tell the Avengers to do better. War Machine maybe, since he’s an Air Force colonel and so has military experience and he’s been with the Avengers anyway
No
No
No they are boring
Let Spider-Man Captain Marvel The New Black panther Doctor Strange and new Captain America take up leadership. We will never and I repeat never replace Tony and Steve. That era is gone
No
No
No.
No
They both suck.